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[cass anawaty]

Sony Oxford Limiter--the others I'm aware of aren't native.  Pinguin probably does.

I think there's some complaining among MP3 users re: the distortion they're hearing post conversion, but will that change anything?  Probably not.

I never really thought too much about it--maybe no one does care.  Maybe I don't anymore  

[aivoryuk]

Cass Anawaty wrote on Tue, 18 September 2007 21:56

I never really thought too much about it--maybe no one does care.  Maybe I don't anymore

right on bro  

but i'll check out pinguin i've just looked and their pro seems to do the whole oversampling thing

[Tomas Danko]

Cass Anawaty wrote on Tue, 18 September 2007 20:38

Viitalahde wrote on Tue, 18 September 2007 18:54 Yep, I'll need to be convinced on this topic. A zero is zero in digital audio. When we're dealing with CD's, I try to leave at least some headroom (-0.3dBFS is my current norm) before the digital zero, but the truth is that something like -1.5dBFS would be way better - but we won't be allowed that. Frankly, I don't think -0.3dBFS and 0.0dBFS makes much of a difference. Many CD's come slammed to zero. Well, I think that -0.3 dbfs will protect you anyway.  It's not really a question of a CD being slammed to 0.0dbfs, it's more of an issue of "is it actually slamming to 0.3dbfs".  So the difference may be digital overs or not. I think there are some hard and fast rules in mastering.  To me, crossing 0.0dbfs at all is wrong, especially if preventable.   Why take a chance?  I would bet that the super hot masters coming out of the top facilities are paying attention.  A brickwall is essential. Discuss?

Not that it's related to the actual CD, but MP3-encoding the same file slammed to 0dbfs will sound noticeably worse than MP3-encoding the -0.3 dbfs version. Sometimes this is very noticeable.

Since a lot of people (the majority?) will lossy compress their purchased CD's and load those MP3 files into their iPOD's this is a valid topic indeed.

Sorry for the intrusion, not being a WUMPee.

[aivoryuk]

Tomas Danko wrote on Wed, 19 September 2007 11:14

Not that it's related to the actual CD, but MP3-encoding the same file slammed to 0dbfs will sound noticeably worse than MP3-encoding the -0.3 dbfs version. Sometimes this is very noticeable. Since a lot of people (the majority?) will lossy compress their purchased CD's and load those MP3 files into their iPOD's this is a valid topic indeed. Sorry for the intrusion, not being a WUMPee.

not a problem discussion is always welcomed.

its the reason to why i'll always set the file to below 0dBfs. normally -0.3.

[MT Groove]

10 years ago, I always set it to peak at -0.3  These days I just go with -0.1.  For a while I was using TC's Brickwall Limiter for Powercore and set it to oversampling mode for the intersample peaks.  However, I noticed on loud masters, it kills the punch a bit too much for my taste.  Now I've been using Voxengo Elephant in Clip or EL-3 mode both with 4x oversampling and find that it's a relatively acceptable compromise.  

[UnderTow]

Hi all, here are my tech notes:

I kept things fairly simple. I just cleaned up some of the low-end mud from the mix and brought up the level. No automation.

Host: Sonar 6
Playback system: Terratec EWS 88MT, Yamaha MSP10, no acoustic treatment. (But I'm very familiar with this setup).

PSP Neon HR:
============
Max resolution
LP off, FAT off.

Hipass 30Hz, 24dB/Oct
- 1.06 dB LowShelf @ 136 Hz Q 0.71
- 1.44 dB @ 330Hz Q 0.6
- 0.67 dB @ 566 Hz Q 1.0

PSP MasterComp (couple of dB GR max)
==============
Ratio 1.4
Attack 47.6 ms
Release 100 ms (Auto)
Threshold -18.41
Side-Chain filter @ 70Hz
Make-up auto
Mix 100%
Stereo Link 50%
Soft Knee
Detection:RMS

URS 1970 Compressor (Couple of dB GR max on the loudest peaks)
==================
Attack 3.0 ms
Release 31 ms
Threshold -6.2
Ratio 4:1

Voxengo Tapebus (At a guess, maybe a dB of GR max)
===============
Tape bypass (no tape modelling)
Rec gain: +13.6
Everything else flat.

Voxengo MSED
=============
+0.5 dB on the side-band.

iZotope Ozone limiter
================
Threshold -4.5 dB
Margin -0.2 dB
Character 0.6 (Very fast)
Prevent inter-sample clips: on
Mode intelligent

Exported at 88.2Khz 32 bit.

Used some beta software to convert and dither to 44.1Khz 16 bit.

Alistair

[MT Groove]

Here's what I did

Samplitude Pro 9.11

Spitfish Deeser to tame the sibilance a bit

Angeltone
-1.5 @ 184; Q 1.22 Sonny
-1.3 @ 4186 Q 1.12 Milly

TC Master X 3 (This is unethical but it sounded good for this job to my ears)

Expander/Limiter OFF
COmpressor
Crossover 121; 3.56kHz
THreshold -9.0
Ratio 2.0
Attack 20ms
Rel 0.14S
Linear Mode, Target Factor Off


Sony Oxford Inflator

Input 0.9
Effect 100
Curve 10.1
Split Band
Output 0


Voxengo Elephant

In 0.0
Out -0.2
Lim Mode : Clip
St Linking 100%
OVersample 4X

Exported File out while Converting to 44.1 16 Bit using Samplitude's SRC and POw-R 1 dithering in one pass.

[cass anawaty]

MTGroove,
Can you include the monitoring chain?
Thanks,
Cass

[Luke Fellingham]

Sonnox Eq HPF at 28Hz
Out through Lavry DA10
Gyraf G X - Low ratio, med att, med/fast release. <0.5 dB reduction.
Gyraf GXIV - small boost at 100, 750, 2k1, 3k5, 12k
In through Apogee AD16. No soft limit.
Sonnox Eq 1dB cut at 80Hz and 140Hz
SRC Using Sample manager to 44.1KHz
Sonnox Limiter. Input set for 2 or 3 dB of reduction on peaks. No Auto Gain no Safe Mode. 100% enhance, autocomp on. Output just below zero.
Pow-r 1 dither.

Monitoring provided by Dac1, Lipininski L-505s and REL sub. I've only just started using the Lipinskis and I'm really enjoying getting to know them (thanks Aaron). This wump was actually the first thing I mastered on them. Since doing this master I've improved their integration into my room and with the sub so I think that they're now translating better. I guess we'll see if I find time to join in the threatened round of revisions.

[MT Groove]

Cass Anawaty wrote on Fri, 21 September 2007 09:21

MTGroove, Can you include the monitoring chain? Thanks, Cass

I would prefer not to reveal my monitoring chain.  It is just too embarrassing to mention and I will lose all respect from anyone on this forum.  So let's just leave it at that.    

[cass anawaty]

MT Groove wrote on Sun, 23 September 2007 00:32

Cass Anawaty wrote on Fri, 21 September 2007 09:21 MTGroove, Can you include the monitoring chain? Thanks, Cass I would prefer not to reveal my monitoring chain.  It is just too embarrassing to mention and I will lose all respect from anyone on this forum.  So let's just leave it at that.

More likely I'd be impressed, but I understand.  

[Catalin Truta]

Here's what I did:

- First thing noticed was the lack of punch so I used Flux BitterSweet, mode: Main, value: 515, to bring the transients up;

- Some strong sibilances here and there, attenuated with Spitfish 4k, medium sense, medium depth, soft: off;

- The track had too much low-mid information and was overall pretty dark sounding so I used AngelTone 195Hz, q: 1.5, -2dB, 7.9k, shelf, 3.5dB, both with the sonny algo, to help open it;

- The voice and the intro pad were fighting each other, the pad had a very proeminent sound in the mids and the voice was a bit buried and unclear, so I used AirEQ in M/S mode in an attempt to gain clarity on the voice and push back a bit the pad, settings: Mid: 416Hz, q: 1, +1dB, Side: 770Hz, q: 1, -2dB. Some people had a few comments wich I know are related to this specific step, I'd probably use PSP Neon HR next time;

- Although dark sounding, I felt the track needed the low-end to be tightened and pushed up, so I used MD3, comp section in multiband , only the low band active, crossed-over at 80Hz, ratio 2:1, attack: 70, release: 140, thresh: -10, gain: 2dB, limiter in bypass;

- BrickWall Limiter, input: 1dB, thresh: 0, link: on, upsampling: on, auto;

- Sony Inflator, effect: 100%, curve: -50, out: -0.3dB (this was perceived by someone as compression artifacts, being in fact the distortion added in the process, indeed not exactly suited to this track);

- Fade out;

- Dithered to 24bit with POW-r#1;

- Imported and SRC-ed in Barbabatch to 44.1kHz;

- Reimported into Logic (this was the reason it was first dithered, as Logic doesn't export or import 32bit files) and dithered to 16bit with POW-r#2.

I would like to hear and comment others' entries but for a month or so I'm accessing the internet with the mobile phone so it's not possible for me to download them right now. Appologies to everybody for that, I hope I'll get a better connection in time for the next WUMP.

[aivoryuk]

aivoryuk wrote on Tue, 18 September 2007 22:32

Cass Anawaty wrote on Tue, 18 September 2007 21:56 I never really thought too much about it--maybe no one does care.  Maybe I don't anymore   right on bro   but i'll check out pinguin i've just looked and their pro seems to do the whole oversampling thing

well i've been following this up and found a way to check for intersample peaks on in ozone.

and i found all the tracks i tested that come out of sterling, gateway etc had intersample peaks.

just to make sure i wasn't been deceived i looked at a few of the wump tracks and one that i did myself, and it didn't register any intersample peaks.

so there is food for thought

[cass anawaty]

aivoryuk wrote on Mon, 24 September 2007 18:11

aivoryuk wrote on Tue, 18 September 2007 22:32 Cass Anawaty wrote on Tue, 18 September 2007 21:56 I never really thought too much about it--maybe no one does care.  Maybe I don't anymore   right on bro   but i'll check out pinguin i've just looked and their pro seems to do the whole oversampling thing well i've been following this up and found a way to check for intersample peaks on in ozone. and i found all the tracks i tested that come out of sterling, gateway etc had intersample peaks. just to make sure i wasn't been deceived i looked at a few of the wump tracks and one that i did myself, and it didn't register any intersample peaks. so there is food for thought

Thanks for that--interesting.  But these days I look less and less to the big boys for quality output, whether they have a choice or not isn't worth the discussion.

[aivoryuk]

Cass Anawaty wrote on Mon, 24 September 2007 19:07

Thanks for that--interesting.  But these days I look less and less to the big boys for quality output, whether they have a choice or not isn't worth the discussion.

oh god don't get me started i have just today bought the new Foo fighters album and I am horrified I really am. I don't normally say anything about cd's like this but this one takes it it to a whole new level.

It has to be without doubt in my CD collection the brightest thing i have ever heard. I thought my ears were playing tricks so i put on the last studio one (in your honor) and that sounded dull compared to it as well as Greenday as well. The high hats are just ear splitting. I don't mind loud but loud anf that bright no!!!!

It's the first one mastered by brian gardner (the rest were by ludwig) not that i think that has anything to do with it i'm sure he just gave them what they wanted.

i bet it sounds great on mp3 though.

but i'm quite speechless

thankfully i also bought the new PJ harvey album which i'm glad to say is nice and low.