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[hollywood_steve]

As I have slowly switched over from a traditional studio to a location only setup, my pile of equipment has changed from primarily used gear to a large percentage of new gear.  It seems that I got lucky with my first half dozen new purchases, as they all utilized XLR connectors, except for a few DB25s when 8ch worth of signals were involved.  But I am suddenly facing a couple of new pieces that include both some DB25s and a stray XLR or two, but also add a half dozen or more 1/4" jacks.

My previous experience with 1/4" connectors was pretty much limited to guitar gear.  A lot of semi-pro audio gear utilized 1/4" connectors, but I didn't have any.  But the unstoppable urge for manufacturers to shrink all gear down to 1RU (or even 1/2RU)  [WHY?!?!] has resulted in 1/4" connectors on even the most expensive gear from the top rated manufacturers.  This really pisses me off as I would MUCH rather have a 2RU (or even 3RU) piece of gear with proper XLR connectors, but I don't seem to have that option.  And to make things even more frustrating, the gear I'm looking at right now doesn't even tell me what type of connectors they are, there are just a bunch of 1/4" holes and I guess I have to figure out what connectors belong in them holes.

It would be too much for me to hope that these are high quality long frame TRS connectors, right?  I haven't run into long frame connectors anywhere other than hand wired patchbays in a long time.  So that means that the connectors on these expensive pieces of pro equipment are almost certainly lousy phone jacks, the same connectors used on $79 imitation Marshall stacks.  (yeah, I know, the connectors are probably balanced TRS phone jacks, not simple TS phone jacks, but adding an extra leg doesn't improve the quality of phone jacks.  And why do they call them "phone" jacks when the damn telephone company would never use crap like this, they know enough to use long frame connectors.) Or am I mistaken, do some of the better pro audio manufacturers use something better than cheap phone jacks when they feel the need to shrink everything down to 1RU?  I know that API used to use TT jacks, which are an improvement, but when you see a full size 1/4" jack, is there any chance the manufacturer is using long frame connectors?

[U1176]

hollywood_steve wrote on Mon, 22 November 2004 13:57

....but when you see a full size 1/4" jack, is there any chance the manufacturer is using long frame connectors?

On anything other than a patchbay...NAH.

[Fletcher]

There is no reason I've ever heard/seen where you can't use those nice 'military' brass patch cable type connectors in a 1/4" TRS situation.  Frankly, you have a greater area of surface contact with a 1/4" connector than with a TT connector so I think you're OK no matter what you do [and with the good ol' Switchcraft 297's you don't have to "polish the brass" once a month [something I appreciate].

Just curious, what equipment is it that is giving you this agita?

[hollywood_steve]

Just curious, what equipment is it that is giving you this agita?

I FINALLYmade a decision and purchased the 8x2 line mixer I've been looking for since forever, an API 7800 / 8200 combo.  One of the few issues I had with the 7800 was that it uses more than a dozen 1/4" connectors on the rear panel, including the main stereo output!  (that's just wrong!)  And while I bitched about longframe versus phone jacks, my bigger issue is that I'd prefer XLR to either, screw this 1RU crap.


But when I was deciding between the three mixers on my shortlist this weekend, both the Aurora GTM-822 and the 7800 included a dozen or more 1/4" connectors, which meant lots of new cabling for my previously all XLR / DB25 room.  The Chandler mini-TG looked real nice with it's all XLR I/O (and its sensible scale; 4, or maybe 5 RU!)   But in the end, the idea of building a small API console, piece by piece (great marketing angle by API) was too good to pass up.  And most importantly, my existing rack of API preamps and EQs will look really good next to the 7800/8200 combo.

[bobkatz]

Fletcher wrote on Tue, 23 November 2004 08:46

There is no reason I've ever heard/seen where you can't use those nice 'military' brass patch cable type connectors in a 1/4" TRS situation.

It's a little dicey, Fletcher. The shape and diameter of the tip of a PJ-051 (mil-spec patch-bay type TRS plug) is just a hair smaller, and a well-used 1/4" jack just might not make dependable contact. The reverse is very seriously wrong, by the way. NEVER plug a standard 1/4" male plug into a TRS patchbay (except the crappy semi-pro kind that actually use 1/4" jacks.

Somewhere around here I think I still have a can of "Doe's Plug Polish". It works wonders on those brass plugs; they end up shiny and like new. Works like jeweler's rouge. Anyone seen a source for Doe's? Is it still made?

BK

[joeq]

bobkatz wrote on Tue, 23 November 2004 21:52

Somewhere around here I think I still have a can of "Doe's Plug Polish". It works wonders on those brass plugs; they end up shiny and like new. Works like jeweler's rouge. Anyone seen a source for Doe's? Is it still made? BK

I found a Walter S Doe company in Cleveland Ohio

Walter S. Doe & Co.
address:    4010 Maplecrest Ave.
Cleveland, OH  44134-3520      country:    USA
tel:    (440) 845 7716
contact:        Robert Allan

but all mentions of the polish seemed pretty old

Sometimes I use steel wool balls - the kind with no soap - to clean my patch plugs.

The two things an audio engineer needs-   Golden Ears and Steel Wool Balls.

[djui5]

joeq wrote on Tue, 23 November 2004 22:02

The two things an audio engineer needs-   Golden Ears and Balls.

[Fletcher]

I have to say that I think you're being a bit unreasonable with the 1/4" connector rant.  If you look at how the API was meant to be put together, the idea was indeed to be able to put together a fully modular desk of your own design.

1RU = 1.7" [in theory 1.75 but when you go 1.75 it's sometimes a bitch to get them all into the rack properly so most MFG's go 1.7" or 1.725, the real cowboys will go 1.745"" to make it a bit easier], your average console channel strip is also about an inch and a half wide.  The difference being that a regular console channel strip plugs into a "motherboard" with all the I/O connections made from a either a patchbay or XLR I/O on the back of the desk, with insert points on 1/4" [or at least that's the way my little Yomama works... which is the only desk I've ever paid attention to that didn't come with an "onboard" bay].

What gets me on the 82/76/7800 series is the size of the damn knobs.  I mean WTF?  Am I supposed to hire some Korean woman to turn the damn knobs for me as they're so damn small and packed so close together that I find it a real pain in the bollocks to identify the knob I want to turn, and then execute that knob turn to the exact spot it's supposed to go.  Invaraibly it seems that I'm eitehr digging the tip on my index finger into the damn thing or using the 'fleshy' part of the last digit on my thumb.  Any way you look at it, turning those knobs is rarely done the proper way, with the knob between the thumb and index finger.

Can I live with it... yeah.  Am I happy about it?  Hell no.  Will it keep me from using a 7600 or an 8200A [I didn't bother with the 7800 master section so I'm actually only using a small portion of the 7600 channel strip... which is another thing... why doesn't API build a version without the aux sends I'll never use [though the 2 mix outputs on 1/4" have come in handy].

Overall... I still greatly prefer 1/4" connectors to those fucking DB-25 pieces of shit.  I would really like to find the motherfucking Tascam piece of shit and ass rape that motherfucker... WTF kind of standard is that?  WTF is with any connector where you odds of wiring it properly in a reasonable amount of time stand directly between slim and none.  I can't even begin to imagine trying to do one of those pieces of shit without a "Panavise"... but I guess in this "buy it off the shelf 'cuz nobody knows how to solder" world in which we live it's probably not the worst thing in the world though it really is damn annoying.  Ya know, they could have gotten pretty much the same quantity of I/O connections from an ELCO or DL connector in the same amount of space... and I humbly submit that both are easier to wire than a motherfucking DB-25 piece of shit, and both DL and ELCO connectors are like a 100 times more reliable... at least in my experience they are.

Ya know what Steve... that does feel good.  Excellent suggestion on the 'blow off steam rant thing'.

Peace.

[hollywood_steve]

I have to say that I think you're being a bit unreasonable with the 1/4" connector rant. ..............

What gets me on the 82/76/7800 series is the size of the damn knobs. I mean WTF? Am I supposed to hire some Korean woman to turn the damn knobs for me as they're so damn small and packed so close together that I find it a real pain in the bollocks to identify the knob I want to turn, and then execute that knob turn to the exact spot it's supposed to go.

For me it's all the same thing.....
"wrong" connectors, tiny knobs, lack of space between controls for human sized hands, etc.  Why this need to shrink everything?

Although I understand the 1RU almost equals a typical console strip, API knows that they sell 10 units with horizontal lettering for every unit with vertical orientation.

Chandler just posted revised pictures of their two mixers literally a couple of hours after I made my deal on the API.  I don't think that I would have changed my decision based on a pretty picture, but those 5RU mixers just look SO much more user friendly.
http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=2 3641

[Tim Halligan]

Fletcher wrote on Wed, 24 November 2004 21:12

Overall... I still greatly prefer 1/4" connectors to those fucking DB-25 pieces of shit.  I would really like to find the motherfucking Tascam piece of shit and ass rape that motherfucker... WTF kind of standard is that?  WTF is with any connector where you odds of wiring it properly in a reasonable amount of time stand directly between slim and none.

Let's find the moron who decided that the DB-25 is a "Professional" standard connector and have him killed in a slow and excruciating manner in front of an assembly of all other audio manufacturers...just as a friendly warning.

STOP IT!
STOP IT NOW!

OR ELSE...

I hate the damn things - can you tell?

Cheers,
Tim

[Invisible Member]

Tim Halligan wrote on Sat, 04 December 2004 05:32

Fletcher wrote on Wed, 24 November 2004 21:12 Overall... I still greatly prefer 1/4" connectors to those fucking DB-25 pieces of shit.  I would really like to find the motherfucking Tascam piece of shit and ass rape that motherfucker... WTF kind of standard is that?  WTF is with any connector where you odds of wiring it properly in a reasonable amount of time stand directly between slim and none. Let's find the moron who decided that the DB-25 is a "Professional" standard connector and have him killed in a slow and excruciating manner in front of an assembly of all other audio manufacturers...just as a friendly warning. STOP IT! STOP IT NOW! OR ELSE... I hate the damn things - can you tell? Cheers, Tim

LOL  

These connector types are all over airplanes in the avionics racks and the intended usage is driven by alot of factors studios don't deal with. Its more than likely there was come cross pollenization happenening at one point when audio guys were deriving audio applications from military radar processing technology. It could be worse you could have had to do 3000 or so pinouts on your own in a box the size of a LA-2A. I'd like to be able to show you some photo's of some military boxes I've designed but I can't for obvious reasons. But there are legit reason for these connector types, user servicable is not a reason

I like anything that keeps me from having to do soldering in yoga like positions. At least audio folks only have 5 or so connector types, I have to sort through hundreds of connectors and thier mating parts.  Military standard is oxymoronic.

Im am so happy my ATR-60-16 has XLR in addition to the printer cables

Peace,
Dennis