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[eightyeightkeys]

Quote:

It may just be that the fate of music is to become highly computerized...like everything else. Technology has seeped its way into nearly every facet of modern life, and it is in juxtaposition to human nature to run from anything that could make life a little easier. DAMN AUTOTUNE!!! Perhaps this new technology will give rise to new breakthroughs.

My wife is a very successful illustrator (so she knows the business from a different angle) and asked me a damn good question yesterday :

"Can" you stand out in today's current  music culture ?" What makes you any different than the next guy ?

We're all using the same or similar tools, tried and true(?) song forms-no extended solo's please (just get to the meat of the song)-DAWS, plug-ins, quantizing everything to utter perfection, punching in again and agian, comping vocal takes and solo's, fixing drum tracks ! (argh!!) the same MIDI gear and same sample collections, amp emulations, Sans Amps, etc.....as engineers we tend to use tried and true mic techniques and positions. Damn it, we are all being homogenized. I mean listen to any new country station. If it wasn't for gender changes couldn't it be all one artist ?

And its' true in sport as well. Someone posted that he loves to watch his youngsters just play. Man, I went to a peewee hockey game a couple of years ago and just loved it. It was pure joy. None of the physical & technical perfection and none of the corporate baggage & big money that goes along with pro hockey. I loved it. I don't know, would you find Phil Esposito in today's game ?

[WhyKooper]

........But is britney the musician elvis is?...

Yeah..and that guy Frank Sinatra sucked too...what is it with these people who only sing and don't write their own music?  Such losers.  When put up against Elvis Costello, I bet Frank couldn't have written a song to save his life.  

[KungFuLio]

WhyKooper wrote on Wed, 27 July 2005 14:29

........But is britney the musician elvis is?... Yeah..and that guy Frank Sinatra sucked too...what is it with these people who only sing and don't write their own music?  Such losers.  When put up against Elvis Costello, I bet Frank couldn't have written a song to save his life.

...which begs the questions is Britney the singer Frank was?  Can she read a score like Frank was able to?  Are her vocals knocked out in one or two takes... without Otto Toon?

[maxdimario]

Did Frank have people telling him how he should phrase every word of the song as he was recording?

Did britney entertain paying customers day in and day out in front of a high-profile big band with just one mic and a small PA?

[brandondrury]

It seams that many on here are more concerned with the methods used or not used by the artists than the power of the music itself.  

It's logical to try differentiate why you prefer one artist over another, but I honestly don't see the use of auto-tune (or not), the use of (sound replacer) or not, the number of mics, the size of their PA, etc as having anything to do with the quality of the music.  I have records that go the modern route and give me goosebumps every time I hear them.  There are records that give me goosebumps that use none of the modern conventions.

This tells me that magic doesn't come from the recording gear.  It doesn't come from the recording methods that much either.

It just seams to me that the type of artists that get big don't happen to be the artists that appeal to you.  I guess I'm in the same boat.

But implying that Brittany Spears is less of a person/musician/artist/performer because she doesn't write her own songs seams silly to me.  Maybe she's a shitty songwriting.  But I know lots of guys who write their own songs who are absolutely terrible at it.  I'm guessing that Brittany is ahead of those guys still.


Brandon

[vernier]

Joni Mitchell is super human.

[themaidsroom]

defending brittany spears seems insane  
the loud, unapologetic marketing of mediocrity is in red

it may have existed before but in softer tones

i think its very metaphysically disorienting to devote
much of your life to playing and recording music while
people in other parts of the culture are rewarding mediocrity
and are very comfortable about it........

i think in even the worst disco record, you can hear players
playing

standards have disappeared - i really don't think its
about age - i don't think there has ever been a time
where capitalism has been more virulent

i think frank sinatra was a special shamanic witch - deeply
gifted in a way that he himself did not possess the conceptual
framework to understand........
a lot like tim buckley........(minus the framework problem)who frank was a fan of.......

my concern is strongest for children, who believe that the
music coming from the giant monolith is what they tell them
it is - they don't know that the grammy award is utterly
meaningless as it is not presented that way

real estate plays its role too, according to a new yorker
article some years back, some of the greatest small music
venues in new york have been owned or partially owned
by wealthy philanthropists of a sort - who were willing
to sustain losses over extended periods of time because
they could afford to do so, and they saw what they were
doing as beneficial - the club was nurturing a group
of musicians and thereby created an exciting environment
to witness

here in nyc we are as far from anything like that as we've
ever been

i guess like in so many other parts of are culture we need
values that transcend the dollar - that's not very popular
right now........

be well

- jack

[maxdimario]

The issue is QUALITY.

What we call music today is really much more (or less) than just music.

Even if the argument rarely comes up, what we are primarily concerned with here on this forum is music which can be recorded and be economically exploited.

the other side of this is: the measure of success that a successful recording embodies. Success is gratifying both personally to those who worked on it and on a global scale as a cultural message or statement which breaks through and improves or enlightens popular culture.

Quality is not an issue anymore because business in the computer/digital age is based on VOLUME sales.

the information highway and globalization in general makes it possible to have huge markets available, and computer and digital technology make it possible to manufacture and design new technologies very quickly and in very large numbers.

the shift in business thinking has increased year by year to favour MASS MARKETING over real quality as the primary driving force behind economic success.


Once upon a time new things were developed by experts in their respective fields, and quality was what gave a new product credibility.

This applies to music, both culturally and as a result of corporate business strategies taking over in the management of record companies, which traditionally did not behave as corporations but were closer to publishing and artist management.

Kids today are soaking up the modern pop culture which is 90% corporate funded, and will favour anything that keeps the market predictable and tries to shift popular tastes towards the appreciation of what is easily reproduceable, manufactureable, does not unbalance the current state of social and cultural 'sleep'. The only way to continue being entertained is to focus on novelty, image and celebrity status and not substance and spiritual 'truth'.

In a way, this corporation-type approach towards music is there because the corporations cannot do things any other way.

They lack the identity and sense of purpose or 'truth' in what they produce, because they are big money/lawyer/accountant run machines who hire people that do not create problems and upset the balance.

After all, they can always BUY an emerging indie lable with some artistic backbone to it, once it becomes successful.

Music embodies everything that goes into it.

The Beatles sounded like they did because they approached the music with an attitude, values, spirituality that was expressed in the music. Led zep did too. all the great projects were done with a strong spirit and belief in what they were doing.

Same goes for any band or recording:

The way the process of making the music is approached will be part of the end result. It will be part of the message that is conveyed to the listener.
So what does today's music convey?


Frank Sinatra used his 'pulling power' to draw audiences. it was something tied to his inner spirit and connection with his audience.

Today it may seem like magic (you mentioned magic), but before people began to accept life in modern identity-less and spiritually lacking society, that magic was part of everyday life for many people.

that's where a lot of the seminal folk music came from too..

[John Ivan]

brandondrury wrote on Wed, 27 July 2005 23:06

It seams that many on here are more concerned with the methods used or not used by the artists than the power of the music itself.   It's logical to try differentiate why you prefer one artist over another, but I honestly don't see the use of auto-tune (or not), the use of (sound replacer) or not, the number of mics, the size of their PA, etc as having anything to do with the quality of the music.  I have records that go the modern route and give me goosebumps every time I hear them.  There are records that give me goosebumps that use none of the modern conventions. This tells me that magic doesn't come from the recording gear.  It doesn't come from the recording methods that much either. It just seams to me that the type of artists that get big don't happen to be the artists that appeal to you.  I guess I'm in the same boat. But implying that Brittany Spears is less of a person/musician/artist/performer because she doesn't write her own songs seams silly to me.  Maybe she's a shitty songwriting.  But I know lots of guys who write their own songs who are absolutely terrible at it.  I'm guessing that Brittany is ahead of those guys still. Brandon

There are three things that move me about music.

One is the writing. Someone sits down and has an idea. A musical Idea.

The second thing is, someone,or a bunch of someones pick up instruments and play stuff based on the idea. This has to happen through time. It is harmonic content being represented by a person, through time. Doing this is hard. One needs to dig deep within them selves to do this. As a result of this truth, Elton's playing is a huge huge part of why people like the songs. You can say you don't care about his playing but, if you care about anything when you hear his music, his playing is one of the things you care about, whether you know it or not.

The third thing is, someone needs to collect this playing with audio devices. It used to be that we would mostly stay out of the way and try to record what was happening in the room. More and more, we are not doing this. We hear what's going on in the room and decide there is something wrong with it. So, we cut it all up,tune it and so on until it's NOT what happened in the room.

I think this is driving people to not work as hard at Playing. I see it all the time. A guitar player will come in and ALMOST play something and say "you can make a good take from that,, Right??"

Just some thoughts on where the music has gone.

Ivan.............

[brett]

music is beautiful...always was, and always will be. It may change, but its still beautiful!

[Benmrx]

just wanted to chime in here and say that even though the market IS completely oversaturated with boring, thoughtless, plastic music......I think there are even more good natured, earnest, hard working bands out there that really play their instruments, and play them well.  

Since all this recording gear has become available to just about anyone, there's more horrible music...but also a ton more great music.  You can make a great a record, filled with great songs, played by talented people on a laptop.

And this goes for the record labels as well.  It's pretty open to anyone.

If someone came along and took away all the Pro Tools LE systems, closed the internet, and made it a law that you have to sign with a major..........well, all of my personal favorite bands would be no more.  

If you think there's a lack of good, honest, well played music out there.  Then maybe you're lookin in the wrong place.

A few artists that I feel are making a wonderful contributions in todays music are the magnetic fields, neutral milk hotel, the flaming lips, the white stripes, broadcast, and too many others to list.

[vernier]

Yep! ..(what Benmrx said).