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[t(h)ik]

To me the defintion of a Liberal is someone who politically is not happy with the way things are in the world.  It is someone who values humanity (not counting murdering the unborn).

A liberal is someone who is a free thinker.  Someone who feels responsible for their personal role and their country's role in the world.  A liberal is for the rights of the down trodden.

A liberal is someone that thinks you should be able to pursue happiness and being groovy as long as you are not hurting others.

Liberals are for the environment

John F. Kennedy (who fought the Japaneese and started Vietnam) was a liberal.

Without liberals the world would still be segregated..

Without liberals the U.S. would be for shit...

Liberals bring us art, music and fashion.

Liberals make life worth living.

Without liberals people would be judged on how their yard looks.

The problem I have here is that some people think they are liberals but actually do not think for themselves.  THAT'S NOT LIBERAL GOD DAMN IT.

They only repeat a mantra developed by people with the intellect of a piss ant.

For sure they are not happy with the way things are but instead of action they fukken whine, spew propaganda and wreak of totalitarianism.

WAKE UP!

Liberals are intellectuals and sometimes view themselves as superior.  But they show up in mass and change the world.

Brothers!  Be superior!  The world needs you or we have no chance!

When you stoop (really low) and quote Michael Moore or espouse the rhetoric of Geneane Grafolo or whoeverthefukk....you do your history and movement a disservice.

If you are American think about people who start a sentence, "Well Rush Limbaugh said....."

That is how discerning people view the Moore bullshit...

THINK

Tell the fukken truth and change the world.



Lemme nough....

Your friend the conservative asshole in the Fatherland...

Love yas

Tik

[henchman]

What are you trying to say?

[JackJohnston]

What did Noam Chomsky say when asked if he votes for Republicans or Democrats?

It depends on the candidate.

Jack

[t(h)ik]

henchman wrote on Sat, 02 July 2005 23:39

What are you trying to say?

I think what I am trying to say is that it is rather pathetic that to think you are liberal or let's say for many anti-Bush if you are only repeating what is very obvious propaganda.

I think Jack hit on it in a way.

The candidate..

Bush is not the problem in my opinion.

I think people are pissed off at themselves and the limitations of the system.

I think Bush is doing an excellent job considering the fact that he has failed at everything else.

How a veteran cannot answer questions as to his whereabouts is beyond me. Especially since his father could tell you where he was on any given month in 1942.

But people don't think or do anything.

These choices for presidential candidates we are getting are beyond pathetic..with no end in site..it's not Bush's fault he got there it's ours.

We have had so many presidents with so many accomplishments that it takes a volume to record it all.

The last five or six losers would have trouble filling in a post card...

So with all the anti-American rhetoric or anti-Bush screaming I think I was trying to encourage something more cutting edge

[JackJohnston]

Quote:

I think Bush is doing an excellent job considering the fact that he has failed at everything else.

If you call jumping in bed with the real financers of 9/11 (Saudi Arabia), and invading a country that had nothing to do with it (IRAQ) a good job, then ya, he's been great.

Jack

[t(h)ik]

I don't think the main reason for going into Iraq was because of links to 9-11.  I think it was to prevent another one.  Obviously based on some really lame information.  But this is what I mean about not looking at history.

It's OK with you if we didn't invade Iraq?

It's OK with you that many corrupt governments were going around the sanctions with no end in site?

It's OK with you that Israel and the rest of the area including Saudi, Qatar, Kuwait, UAE are affected by this...how do I mean affected.  Instabiltiy in the region, paying cash to suicide bombers etc...

It's OK that U.S. troops are out in the desert for ten years and U.S. pilots get shot at constantly while a dictator lives in palace and the people starve and are attacked?

BTW the major point being instability

As far as Saudi Arabia goes are you saying the government financed it?

Or better yet, who are you saying financed it?

My point about Bush which I think was clearly stated, maybe not, is that noone more qualified stepped forward for the job. Clinton, Kerry, Bush It's pathetic. We used to have guys running for president that actually accomplished something in their lives and were natural leaders.  I don't think Bush is the problem..sorry.

Gotta run

Lemme nough

[JackJohnston]

Quote:

As far as Saudi Arabia goes are you saying the government financed it?

Saudi Arabia finances schools that teach Wahabi Islam and is the source of Osama Bin Laden's money.

Al Quida was sprung from the Muhajedeen, which was formed by Saudi Arabia and Afghanastan with the support of the US and Pakistan to fight the Russians during the Russian occupation of Afghanastan. In the 1980's wealthy Saudi's would actually fly in to Afghanastan stay there a couple days and shoot some guns, but usually not at actual targets, and then go back to Saui Arabia to brag about there part in the war against the Russians.

IRAQ is one of the few muslim countries where Al Quida had very little support and none from the goverment, as they opposed Huessain.

I'm not saying that it was good or bad to invade IRAQ, just that there was no 9/11 connection and that was known from the beginning. Richard Clarke said so. So did the NSC. Former CIA staffers have come out and said the same thing. All this 9/11 connection to IRAQ stuff came out of the White House, but none of it came from Richard Clarke.

I hope the invasion turns out well and we bring stability and democracy to IRAQ. What a bummer it would be if some crazy Wahabi Islam cleric gains power. But I don't think we should ignore the absolute known facts.

Jack

[danickstr]

Hey six

well here I am again chiming in on the saloon, when so many other things are in need of mending.  lol at my own joke.  You make a lot of points with which I am in agreement.  

I also cannot stand the self-appointed pseudo-liberal who is really just a cynic or a clone.  Thsi is not the basis of liberalism.  Kindness and a self-aware search for the truth  and the defense of humanity is the definition of a liberal.  

Liberals make the mistake of letting a system be occasionally taken advantage of just so that the truly needy will not go on suffering. But they also go to war when despotic bastards are crushing the spirit of their people under their own greed or warped values.

It is also a good time to address this issue, because of the time, i.e., US Independence Day. You won't find a more nutty bunch of liberals than our forefathers. Gotta love those freaks.  

I think 9-11 was about America's addiction to oil.  We gotta get off the stuff, but imagine if the 50 million (give or take many million) US citizen's cars didn't have any.  What a fiasco there would be out there.  I think its just a very strong junkie's way of making sure the dealer doesn't take away the juice.  And we helped take out a true nutjob at the same time.  Good for the Junkie.  Avenge the assassination try on GHWB? just a coincidence.

Politics are probably too diabolical for the pure of heart to ever succeed at them, but wouldn't it be nice to keep hope alive?    

Cheers

[t(h)ik]

JackJohnston wrote on Sun, 03 July 2005 07:59

But I don't think we should ignore the absolute known facts. Jack

Absolutely agree, and I believe that is what is happening.  The benefit of the information age is that it is all there to analyze and loud doesn't mean correct.  If one tenth of what I read here were true it would be time to overthrow the whole shithouse.

What are the facts..

Nick, good point, what is the difference between a liberal and a cynic.....in my mind, everything.

Lemme nough

[henchman]

The fact that the US is nowhere near the top of the list of "best countries in the world to live in" and the coutnries that are, are the more liberal countries, must be another leftwing conspiracy, right?

How can you say Bush is doing a good job, when the deficit has spiralled out of control, and the US economy is goign down the drain at an alramign rate?

Why is it, that of all the modern western countries, the US is the country that has the biggest homeless problem?

And sixtysix, your link says you live in germany, how can you have anythignt o say about what's goign on in the US, and it'spolicies.
You really do sound like the type of character in your Avatar.

[t(h)ik]

henchman wrote on Sun, 03 July 2005 17:19

You really do sound like the type of character in your Avatar.

Yes, admittedly so.

I am a dumb

ass....

The US econonmy is growing, steadily...sorry...

I believe my point was, and I may not have articulated it very well, Bush is doing well considering he was a failure at everything else.  The Americans had a choice between two people who are very headstrong, opinionated under achievers with the arrogance that comes with not having any gold medals.  So they got one (a president)....that's the system.

It is my opinion, your's may be different and I would appreciate your guidance.  That he is doing quite well under the circumstances.  But I don't think he is qualified to even be there.  

So, it is also my opinion that the predominant reason we are in this situation is because the press and some of the public no longer care about the facts, they only want to fire from the hip (as I said before) like cowboys....and worship slogans and symbols and propaganda.  This is nothing new but seems to be much more prevalent....I have no idea why....empowerment?

The question is (in my opinion) is it better?

I think it is.....sorry...

It could happen that as world leaders degenerate from Winston Churchill types to the pathetic types we have now, especially in Europe...pathetic...

It could be part of an even bigger power shift (meaning the Alvin Tofler type) that is totally unforeseen.

But it could mean doom and gloom and the end of high fashion, Chinese take out and quality mountain bikes....but I don't think so....do you?  Is the end near Henchie?

I guess I am on the defensive now about the location of my domicile as well.  I guess I can't possibly know what is going on in America or Iraq or Africa or the Balkans....because my information clearly states I live in Germany.

But let me assure you I don't know what's going on anymore and probably less than the rest of the members of this virtual watering hole.

So you brought up the homeless.

Weren't they called hobos in the seventies?

Are there churches that offer to take them in?

Private citizens?

Action groups?

Should we go out with tranquilizer darts and send them to an island?

Teach me something here.  I hung out with the hobos in San Fran and they were all drunks.  I offered to buy them Scotch but they insisted on Thunderbird, so that's what we drank..mmmm mmmmm...

Do you seriously want me to believe there are bums people because a lay-about from Texas who had more money than his competitors became president....and if he wasn't there the homeless people would be small business owners?

Henchie...help me out here...

Tell me about the families where the kids are catching the school bus from sewer grate #34...

If there is such a thing maybe we could adopt a family...meaning the REP forum.

I'm sure we could somehow pitch in for rent.



Lemme nough

Tik

[henchman]

sixtiksix wrote on Sun, 03 July 2005 11:48

Tell me about the families where the kids are catching the school bus from sewer grate #34... If there is such a thing maybe we could adopt a family...meaning the REP forum. I'm sure we could somehow pitch in for rent. Lemme nough Tik

Ah yes. Another ignorant twat spouting his rightwing BS.

if you try to do a teensy weensy bit of reesearch that woudl take all of about 30 secs, you could find out stuff liek this:


http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/H/Ho/Homelessn ess_in_the_United_States.htm

http://www.futureofchildren.org/information2826/information_ show.htm?doc_id=73315

http://www.nationalhomeless.org/families.html

http://www.unlv.edu/faculty/putney/Ffalls/homeless.htm

There, that will giove you some reading.
Not all homeless people are drunks or drug addicts you egotistical, selfish, rightwing IMF.

[henchman]

sixtiksix wrote on Sun, 03 July 2005 11:48

The US econonmy is growing, steadily...sorry...

Ah yes. The fact that the trade deficit is out of control and they are borrwoing $2 billion per day to fund this "growth" means nothing.

 http://www.cbc.ca/story/business/national/2005/06/10/ustrade -050610.html

http://www.newstarget.com/007144.html

BTW, if you feel the US is the best place to live, why did you leave?

[t(h)ik]

OK Henchie...

Great you have branded me as a right wing ignorant mother fukker....

You are a real charmer...

So I guess we are at an impasse and out of respect for all the people here who spent time mentoring me, even in the Saloon I will not respond in kind.

I think we are talking about two different things. I gathered from the article that "homeless" means you still could have a place to stay...which means a lot of musicians I know are "homeless".  Then there was a photo of a fine looking trailer with buckets out front possibly used in some sort of thriving entrepreneurial endeavor.

So you are saying that the foster program is not picking up the slack and there are kids that sleep in boxes?

I have never seen this but I am want to know all I can...

Is this Bush's fault

I reviewed your articles.

I think it comes down to choice....why don't the bums have a job?

They don't have any training?

They were released from the nut house?

Taxes?  hmmm...I think they have these things called tax brackets assuming there was something to tax...

This is stated in your links....  

Are you saying the father of these kids can't keep a roof over their head?  If this were true how come everyone else can?

Are you saying the government and citizens don't provide for the kids with fukked up parents?

There are just as many hard working Americans who don't jack speed or drink excessively and get up in the morning at 5:30 and go to fukken work, then they help their neighbors and I guess I need to pull the bag off my head and witness the Bush led repression that causes these poor poor people to miss out...

Am I a "right winger" because I don't agree with your assertions?

If you don't agree with mine are you an ignorant mother fukker?

If the GDP is growing does that mean the economy is bad?

Does our trade imbalance dictate our well being?

Do other nations have a trade deficit?

If you have a trade surplus is your country rich?

My point is only to eschew the mantra of propaganda and myth...

My other question was how can you critcize our trade deficit if everyone gets a fair shake?  Meaning other countries...

The US IS THE MOST POWERFUL ECONOMY IN THE WORLD....sorry...

Maybe people should stop flying to China as IT consultants and start manufacturing cheap pocket knives so they can be better off and stop the trade imbalance.  That would show that Bush guy...


Bums vs. homeless....my next assignment in the continued enlightment from coming here....willing to learn and pull my head out of my ass....are you?


Lemme nough

Your right wing fascist raving lunatic ignorant mother fukker in the Fatherland...

TIK

[henchman]

If you think America is all that, why did you move?