Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[j_u2005]

Whenever I come to this forum I always seem to be asking stupid questions. With that in mind...

Todays:

I'm wondering - should a mic have a frequency response under or over 0 dB, in the necessary frequency range of what you want to record?

As a rough hint to what made me come out with this stupid question:

from http://www.shure.com/microphones/models/sm86.asp

Also assuming the mic is supposed to be below 0dB in the frequencies you want to record, if it's actually above 0dB like on the picture above between 1000-9000Hz say, can you fix it by using a EQ in the mic chain?

On the reverse, assuming the mic is supposed to be above 0dB in the frequencies you want to record, if it's actually below 0dB like on the picture above between 50-900Hz say, can you fix it by using a EQ in the mic chain?

If this is in the wrong place, as ever I offer my apologies.

[NelsonL]

I'm sure those charts are useful to someone, but I can't say I've ever picked a mic based on it's freq. response chart.

Keep in mind, almost every sound you’ll record will spread pretty widely over that chart.

I'd say it's more important to use your ears to make this call.

Also, your whole signal chain will affect what winds up on disk/tape so really you have to think about the combination of mic, placement, preamp etc.

I'm not too familiar with the SM-86, can't really recommend any particular application for it.

Are you looking to track a particular instrument?

Do you have a range of mics available to use? Or are you looking to buy a utility mic?

Throw out some details and I'm sure you'll get some specific recommendations. Harvey's forum is a great resource for budget conscious mic selection.

[j.hall]

rattleyour wrote on Fri, 25 March 2005 16:43

Keep in mind, almost every sound you’ll record will spread pretty widely over that chart.

not to mention acoustic reflections, harmonics, room noise, storage medium, console, mic-pre.

i look at those charts all the time to see if anything looks really out of whack.

some companies print curves for each mic and ship it with the mic you actually bought.

that's nice to glance at if you buy another of the same mic you can see how closely they are matched.

earthworks does a great job of this.

[brandondrury]

Quote:

in the necessary frequency range of what you want to record?

I pretty much always want to record the entire 20-20k when recording every instrument.  The only exception to that may be the rolling off of the under 100hz for stuff that doesn't need it (sometimes guitar, vocals, etc).

Just buy a cheap mic and go from there.  If you are just getting started a 57 is great place to start.  Most of my clients can't pick out a 57 from a 414 on vocals.

Brandon

[j_u2005]

thanks guys.

I'm looking for a mic to record vocals, and guitar.

Maybe later it might fill in and be used to get a basic bass guitar track down, and maybe the odd drum riff (i'm multi-talented)

It's very important for mic/vocals, the rest doesn't matter as it wouldn't be used for anything final (although if it didn't reek it would help).

Budget, cheapish, bearing in mind it's a first mic. I wouldn't be recording studio quality, it's just for demos. It definately has to sound good normally though.

At the moment I use a almighty hack to record guitar.

My combo amp has a headphone socket with mic emulation on the front for headphones, I plug it into my mixer with a basic stereo cable, and record. Oh yes... At

[rockrev]

A 58 will do just fine for demos.  In fact, a 58 was used to cut the lead vocals on U2's "Vertigo" single.  A very "live" sounding mic - captures the voice quite well.

rockrev

[hargerst]

"0" dB on a mic plot is usually chosen based on the mic's output at 1,000 Cycles (1 kHz). The output will usually go up and down from there.  Usually, the output will start to drop off below 1,000 Hz, or stay fairly smooth till it reaches it's cutoff point.

Above 1,000 Hz, it gets a little weirder, since resonances, reflections, and cancellations will affect it, and you'll get various peaks and dips until the mic reaches its high end cutoff point where it starts to drop like a rock.

The problem in judging the mic's perfomance is difficult, since some sources will hit right where the mic has a peak, while another source may miss all the peaks entirely.  
Plus a lot of manufacturers "fudge" the response (or show an "average response", so it's almost impossible to really tell how one particular mic is going to work on one particular source.

[maxim]

for what you want, anything will do

57's are a classic mic, and what people are used to hearing on records (and you'll always find the use for it down the track)

a decent cheap condenser can also go a long way and will give you a more extended high end

i've recorded some keepers on acoustic and vox, using just one oktava 216  (hanging at mouth height, looking down at the gtr)

a tip re: placement

find the spot where your instrument/voice sound the best in the room (by listening with one ear, or headphones if you're on your own), and stick the mic there

hard to go wrong

[j.hall]

if you are going to buy a 57 or 58 you might as well skip those two door stops and just get a beyer M88.  at least then you'll have a useable mic.

[NelsonL]

Or, for the price of an M-88 you can buy two 57's.

You know, in case you have french doors.

[j_u2005]

Are they bad mic's then?

TBH, I can't say I care for U2's Vertigo. Okay recording technique, crappy song. Just an opinion though, obviously.

What's this mic you speak of, the beyer M88? I'm gathering it's more expensive?

Does anyone know what Testament's "Gathering" album uses? I love that albums rhythm crunch. Solos are a little low in the mix though.

Is there somewhere I can go to rent out mic's to try them? Would it be expensive?

[brandondrury]

Just remember that all microphones do is capture the sound in the air and turn it to electricity.  It's just a basic machine.

Try to imagine a fan (like a boxfan) that blows air.  It's a simple machine that turns still air into air that is moving.  Probably sitting different fans in the same place and blowing them on you will give you 10 different feelings, the deal is they all blow air on you.

Any functioning mic will pick up sound pretty damn good.  Each will do it in a way that feels different than another.  The difference between various mics is so small when you are a beginner.  There are a million things to learn before what mic you use is an issue.

The fact that mega billionaire band U2 used a cheap mic on a hit song shows you that there is more to it than the mic.  

Just a tip.  If you use a 58 or 57 on vocals, back the mic up a few inches to avoid the proximity effect.

As for questions about your favorite production.  The real questions are:
What musician played what? (this is huge)
What gear and settings did they use (this is huge)
What mic did they use? (this is not that huge)

The reason your favorite records sound amazing is generally because this band sounded amazing in the room. The drums sounded like what you heard.  They put their sound capture devices up to capture that.  The guitars probably sounded amazing in the room.  They put their sound capture devices up to capture that.

Imagine you are recording a nature cd.  How would you make the birds sound better?  I don't know if I could.  I would have to try different birds before I used a different mic.

Brandon

[J.J. Blair]

BTW, the fact that Bono has been singing into a 57/58 for years is a testament to his voice.  If you do not have a great voice like his, it will sound like shit.  I watched a guy who mixed some U2 records try that on a mediocre singer, and it sucked.  The specific tonality of Bono's voice is conducive to that mic sounding good.  Rod Stewart doesn't sound that great in a 57. And remember, Bono has access to some great EQs and compressors to really help it along.

[Phil]

[rodolisin]

Get two mic's that sound very different.  If you're just doing guitar and vocals, you will learn the most about mic's by having two contrasting sounds.  Get something like a 57 and a $100 Okatava condenser.  Listen to both of them every time you record anything.

All that chart BS will tell you very little about how to use a mic.  It is just about how it sounds.  SM57s are very mid rangey and have weird peaks and valleys in its frequency response, but they sound amazing on a lot of stuff (guitars/vocals/percussion/drums/horns/etc).  A cheap condenser will have a whole other sound completely, but will also be nice for some different kinds of vocals and guitars and percussion and whatnot.
Get a couple contrasting sounds and learn to trust your ears.

DON'T think that what you see on a chart will mean anything to what a mic sounds good on.  Use the charts and the frequency plots and the theory about mic's to learn more about what you are ALREADY HEARING WITH YOUR EARS, don't read the charts and sh*t to see what you're SUPPOSED TO HEAR.

Oh, and songs and performances and the sound of the instruments will matter exponentially more than the mic you use... but you know that.

-Matt