David Schober wrote on Sat, 27 November 2004 01:32 |
As for your comments about Marxism and California, I find it amusing that you'd take the position of defending the pre-Schwarznegger status quo, when the state, which I called my home for almost two decades, was awash in massive debt. California has consistently led the country in many areas. From Prop 13, 187, and others, to music and fashion are some of the ways CA has led the nation. Now CA has proved the liberal model of entitlement just doesn't work. You should be thankful that finally someone, while not perfect, (and no governor has ever been) is at least saving your state from certain financial ruin.
As for the comment, that conservative, supply-side economics has turned into a type of Marxism....Michael Moore would be proud. It takes some work to be able to spin falsehoods to sound truthful.
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Your ignorance in full bloom ... the government and the business sector as one is Marxism, and if you dont see that the Government as a regulatory agency that protects people from each other's dark side (a very religious idea - that there is a dark side)is gone or going fast, you are not living in truth.
As for CA in debt ... Enron had nothing to do with that debt did they? And deregulation had nothing to do with Enron, right??? What a joke ... Supply-Side Economics does not work .. .even Reagan saw that and pulled back on his tax cut. If only Bush were so smart.
A society of hope with the "values" of fairness and justice for all, not a society of fear and power for the economically successful, is what makes people FEEL GOOD AND SPEND MONEY. And it is in fact FEELINGS that run any economy, not numbers or ideologies that say "if the rich are richer we all win"!
The basis of our system is debt, like home ownership. And when people feel positive about the future they go willingly into debt. If we spent only what we had and the rich invested their extra money in the market the economy would be sluggish at best.
Good vibrations is what it takes for the other 99% to FEEL GOOD and for our economy to crank up. Bush like his father cannot make people feel good for the life of him, as he's not a loving person, just a crafty liar who talks about love and caring.
Credit the market all you want but Clinton was perfect for creating an optimistic consumer.
David Schober wrote on Sat, 27 November 2004 01:32 |
I'm afraid Tom, you and Brian took the bait. The Marx comment was well intended and deliberately trap set to see if I'd get a rise out of you. It did.
However, if you'd care to read what I said, you'd see your reactions were wrong and misdirected. I didn't call anyone, Brian, or anyone else a Pinko Commie. I was merely pointing out that it was Marx who seemed the most dogmatic about his views on economics.
But when a conservative says the name, "Marx" you get a brain freeze, stop hearing what's being said and start spouting liberal talking points. There's nothing pejorative about what I said, "No one has ever claimed any system was perfect, except maybe Marx."
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WHY SAY ANYTHING AT ALL ABOUT PERFECTION? Perfection was never the point, discussing our Capitalist/Socialist system and companies like Wal Mart, globalizations ... this was the point.
So YES ... you were being defensive by bringing the concept of perfection in to counter the criticisms I made.
See ... this is not new ... any criticism of capitalism for MY WHOLE LIFE has been met by an insecure and extremist reference to Communism, Marx, or "leaving the country" if I'm not happy. A pejorative reaction that is now acceptable.
I'm so tired of it I could puke, and you did the same thing, just as predictable as any conservative, as any insecure American.
As a secure American who loves this country and what it has been for moments and what it can be, I feel no reservation in leveling any and all criticisms that might make it better based on the Constitutional intents of the founders and it's current position.
When people are not as secure in their basis, it's obvious. You were either reacting emotionally to losing a few points by bringing up a fact of life with no relevance (it's not perfect!), or you had confusion in understanding my points (which you did not admit) and instead it was the Marx thing.
Either way ... if you want to push buttons Mr Schober, or act like you're smarter then the rest of us, go elsewhere. I have no interest in such crap.
I assume we all have some things in common here and that we are NOT pushing buttons for sport... that's why I bother posting ...
I dont enjoy argument, I enjoy truth seeking. And you have made your intentions clear. So if you're just playing power games (what a shock, a Republican more interested in the power game then the content) you can play with yourself.