Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[OTR-jkl]

I know we've been round and round on the issue of adding compression in mastering, but I have a specific question regarding its use:

I know this is somewhat ambiguous, but what would you say is a typical attack time to use? Or, what attack times have you used on any given project? Answers like "Fast", "Slow", "Program dependent", etc. don't really help. If you know it, please specify an approximate time value (10ms, 50ms, 100ms....).

Thanks.

[bblackwood]

I'd guess that I generally use attack times in the 35-180ms range...

[bobkatz]

OTR-jkl wrote on Thu, 12 August 2004 11:03

I know we've been round and round on the issue of adding compression in mastering, but I have a specific question regarding its use: I know this is somewhat ambiguous, but what would you say is a typical attack time to use? Or, what attack times have you used on any given project? Answers like "Fast", "Slow", "Program dependent", etc. don't really help. If you know it, please specify an approximate time value (10ms, 50ms, 100ms....). Thanks.

Every musical piece gets a different attack and/or release time, depending on the music and the sound you are going for. About all I could say is, "if it sounds like "this" (fill in the blank) with attack time "x" (fill in the blank), then it will probably sound more like "that" (fill in the blank) with attack time "more than x".

The better the mix is and the more subtle the compression you may or may not want to apply, chances are, the longer the attack time you will use. The more the mix needs "repair" and the more that the mix has transients that need some control, the more likely you will be using a shorter attack time.

I could write a book about this.  Wait a minute  . You'll find a nice chart in my book comparing the effects of "more or less" attack and release times on transients, such as snare drums versus continuous sounds. You should train your ears to hear the quality of the rhythym instruments in a mix versus the "continous instruments", and then alter attack and release and see how that affects the ratio of "rhythm to continuous" changes, and then you will begin to understand how to adjust attack, for the particular compressor you are using. You can make it hotter, but something is going to give, you may lose impact as you soften transients, for example, but you may gain more "punch". It's what the mix tells you it needs (if it needs anything).

Numbers?  You want numbers?  Every compressor and expander is different. Some respond to RMS and some respond to PEAKS and some have a crest factor control. As such, each model will have a different number to "go for" or to "start with". If I were to tell you a number to start with and I told you "250 ms", it would be a good average, for many models of compressors. But gawd, I've gone much shorter than that and much longer.... if you get my drift.

[OTR-jkl]

Not looking for "how-to's".... just wanting to get a general idea of what kind of numbers people use.

Reason is, I'm looking at a particular compressor and it has a rather low (IMO) maximum attack value so I wanted to get an idea of what range of values are being used. So far in demo-ing it, I've found myself keeping the attack near max (slow) setting. So, I want to make sure that it will function as needed...

[Bob Olhsson]

Beware that the numbers on one device have remarkably little relationship to the numbers on any other device.

[OTR-jkl]

Bob Olhsson wrote on Fri, 13 August 2004 10:45

Beware that the numbers on one device have remarkably little relationship to the numbers on any other device.

Even if it says "xx ms"...?

[dcollins]

OTR-jkl wrote on Fri, 13 August 2004 10:45

Bob Olhsson wrote on Fri, 13 August 2004 10:45 Beware that the numbers on one device have remarkably little relationship to the numbers on any other device. Even if it says "xx ms"...?

Yes, even then, as there isn't really a standard for the measurement.  I was talking to B-rad about this, and he was visibly shaken when I suggested that I have used attack times as short as 20ms.

Take your compressor and set the release to fast.  then play a track with a good rhythm section, and slowly turn the attack knob from slow (say 100ms) to something fast (say 10ms) and listen to what happens to the snare and/or the bass guitar.  Rinse, repeat.  For stereo buss compression in pop/rock , the typical setting is going to be a long attack and short release, but there are no absolute answers.

Another thing to remember about compression is that is frequently sounds better "out" and a fair A/B can be tough....

DC

[bblackwood]

dcollins wrote on Fri, 13 August 2004 19:47

I was talking to B-rad about this, and he was visibly shaken when I suggested that I have used attack times as short as 20ms.

I had to have a drink, in fact.

[mcsnare]

I seemed to remember the Fairchild 670 manual lists the attack time at 1ms. And it's fixed.
Dave McNair

[Ronny]

mcsnare wrote on Sat, 14 August 2004 01:14

I seemed to remember the Fairchild 670 manual lists the attack time at 1ms. And it's fixed. Dave McNair

I find that its not so much in the attack but in the release.


DC, the typical snare has most of it's energy in the first 20ms and than it dies fast and is gone around 100ms. Talking -3dB on the peak level. So when you are turning the attack down to 10ms you are compressing more of the transient energy on the peak instruments like drums. I've seen piccolo snares that have 50% of the gain in the first 8ms and die real quick after that, back to the noise floor after 75ms. Kick drums are longer most energy in the first 50ms, they take a couple of ms to build, but die by 200ms. A 10ms attack would have most of the kick compressed but a piccolo uncompressed. Essentially what you are doing is compressing the drums when you turn the attack down from 200 to 10ms. That is if the release time is set shorter than the interval between drum transients, if not than the compressor doesn't cut off.  

How do I know the attack time of a snare and kick and how fast they die? Some analytical tools. I use my ear, but now I know exactly why turning the compressor down to 10ms changes the sound of the drums and I can apply that knowledge, when I use my ears to set a compressor. I worked analog for a long time and I'm enjoying using some of these new fangled digi thingamabobs, to confirm what I think that I've been hearing for the past 37 years. Are they a replacement for the ears, no way in hell. Do they help the ear by allowing physical reference, you betcha.