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[ratite]

I need to mic a live musical saw and also allow the player to use guitar pedals.I tried a cheap ac guitar pickup (little button like thing) but found it greatly accentuated the very unmusical,screeching attack-though it worked ok going through a boost pedal,octave delay to a guitar amp.I'm guessing a dynamic will be too insensitive and a condensor lead to early feedback plus the venue is quite makeshift and getting the signal back to the stage could be bothersome though doable.At the  desk plug a mic in to an aux send and take out of the stage box,reverse di to pedals then amp-I'm guessing   This looks like a recipe for feedback too.All thoughts appreciated.

[j.hall]

i've never run saw live.

i recorded it with an earthworks TC-30k and it was awesome

the guy who played it posts here from time to time and does play live.

he uses a pickup back at the "handle" side of the saw, and says it works really well for live applications

i'll drop him a note to come by here and tell you what he's using.

[ratite]

That would be great.I suspect some of the higher quality contact mics might improve things.Maybe the Schertler or cducer mics.I heard from another saw player who recomends a 57 (very moist pro) as it will attenuate the raspy attack.If I want to use pedals I figured 57 to mic-pre on stage,fed to a reamper,or reverse di then pedals then miced guitar amp.Thjat would keep the impedances correct wouldn't it??  

[ericswan]

You might try asking That One Guy. I've worked with him a couple of time and he uses a saw. Don't remember how he amplifies it; I think he uses a pickup of some kind.

[ratite]

Thanks Eric    I emailed his agency as there isn't a personal email on the site.I'll post the details if I get a reply.Interesting site too.

[j.hall]

spoke with my friend yesterday....

he said the contact pickup wasn't working all that well in the long run and he switched to mic'ing the saw.

he said it works best if you place a mic close to your leg on the side with which you bend the blade

[ratite]

Hmmm...I'd hoped a good contact mic could be found(maybe blendingboth for live use might be ok)...What do you think is the best option for getting the signal from a dynamic mic to guitar pedals for the performer to use.I outlined one method but is there perhaps an easier way??

[j.hall]

sure, get a cheap splitter....

or a distribution amp

split the mic off at the stage and go to the pedals.

[SPGrover]

Alrighty!!!   Yep, like J Hall said, my contact mic wasn't quite working out in the long run.  Just picked up too much of the bow noise...
Here's what I do - I have a SM57 placed about 7-8 inches from the underside of the saw (the side closest to the ground), placed about 7-8 inches (again) from the handle of the saw.  If you run it straight into the PA, let the sound person know that you want most (if not all) of the mids and trebles cut out, or else you'll get a lot of screechy bow noise.  I run mine into a 250 watt Kustom head and 2x15 cabinet, and then have THAT miced - I ain't screwing around!  Sometimes, I'll add a touch of reverb.


I actually have a chair that I put together with some mic rigging, so I don't have to bring along a small mic stand.

[ratite]

Thanks for the reply SPGrover
Testing stuff in the studio yesterday we came to the same solution.I'm guessing you roll off the highs and mids on the amp as well?I found we got feedback even at low levels if we left it flat.Have you tried bass amps as I imagine the desirable freq's may be more in a Bass amps range.

Tried a mic splitter...Pre-amped it to line level then reamped to the pedals through an Little Labs Phase box.Worked very well,noticeably better than a reversed DI.What sort of impedance does a 57 show to a guitar pedal??I'm guessing you get severve attenuation/band pass like filtering going direct?

We tried a schertler grand piano contact which was interesting for percusive effects but compared with the cheap contact reproduced the scratchiness even better!Putting a Low pass filter(Moogerfoooger) at the front of the pedal chain worked pretty well.We should tried the contact and the 57 to see if the contact itself is damping the Saw too much.

In the end I think we'll split onstage send a dry line to be hi-cut and compressed (fairly heavily) and run the other line through the fx and send that off to the desk as well.The gigs not for a month so I'll let you know how we go.

[ratite]

Recently I got an AEA 44cx,RCA 44 remake.They really are heavy!!!We tried it on the saw and the result was nothing short of astonishing!! It just sucked up the transients and edginess of the saw and left all the rich theremin-ness of the sound.A little noise mayhaps as we had to turn the pre-amps pretty high to get a good level but more like analog tape hiss than spitty white noise.
   I can't see myself taking it out live though!Splitting in the studio also worked fine though we gave up on the guitar amp as feedback was too persistent.Just DI'd the pedals back to a channel.

  Surprisingly "This One Guy" uses a contact when playing live,an approach i haven't found helpful excepting very radical eq.

  More later after the live show.....