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Author Topic: YES! .. File Sharing Bust  (Read 62750 times)

i dig music

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Re: YES! .. File Sharing Bust
« Reply #660 on: May 31, 2009, 01:20:22 AM »

Bernardo wrote on Sat, 30 May 2009 22:09

the fact that the combined record sales of one of his bands are in excess of one million copies so far, all released by the label he's funded and co-owned for more than 25 years now. Just some nobody.


Bernardo, I think its a beautiful thing, but lets take note of your key points.......

record "sales"

for more than "25 years" now

The question still remains, could Ian repeat that success in today's environment?

That's what everyone had been wondering and talking about here.

While Ian seemed to be a very smart guy, he didn't offer any new biz concept or model other then, that he hopes the majors do implode so the artists and musicians have control of their work...which I believe is a good thing considering p2p puts to much control in the hands of people who don't own it, who don't feel its necessary to contribute any remuneration to the artists.

People who don't care, and use bullshit rationalizations to support their bad habit.


Also, I believe it was convenient for you to use Ian's comments to support your argument. At no point does he do so, as a matter of fact, he contradicts you. He does not think an artist should tour to support the album. Under that model, the "give the music away to sell concert tickets and merchandise" falls way short. He was also speaking of a grass-roots vibe and sales territory. I think that's the future to a certain degree, but it has nothing to do with the internet if you are staying local with your music.

In clip 2, no where was he showing support for file stealing.




All this will change soon. Its just a matter of time, weather it be music or the news......

http://correspondents.theatlantic.com/james_warren/2009/05/s hhhh_newspaper_publishers_are_quietly_holding_a_very_very_im portant_conclave_today_will_you_soon_be.php

Eventually, sites like the Huntington Post won't be able to pirate news to sell ad space, and pirate bay will be history.

Again, if an artist chooses to give his stuff away, that's cool because it was HIS choice to do so. If some 18 year old punk in Russia or the USA decides to without permission...

really...they should just know better...you know things like basic ethics and good manners.

Which brings me to the question, why don't music pirates ever bother to email a thank you note after they grab and share?

Oh, I forgot...their doing the artist a big favor.


Wash rinse and repeat.
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R. Steele

Bernardo

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Re: YES! .. File Sharing Bust
« Reply #661 on: May 31, 2009, 01:48:35 AM »

FWIW, Ian actually voiced big support for FILE STEALING of his own music onstage when I saw his current duo The Evens play Sao Paulo recently.
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Bill Mueller

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Re: YES! .. File Sharing Bust
« Reply #662 on: May 31, 2009, 09:40:50 AM »

Bernardo wrote on Sat, 30 May 2009 23:09

It should be of no importance to you, then, the fact that the combined record sales of one of his bands are in excess of one million copies so far, all released by the label he's funded and co-owned for more than 25 years now. Just some nobody.

Bernardo,

As a matter of fact it's not of any importance to me. Anyone who is happy to die or see his company die just for the pleasure of seeing others die, will probably get his wish. I am more interested in the living.

Also, Ive done my ranting here and elsewhere for many years. The change in wind is pretty clear now. The time for the pirate is going away. There will be a loss of some freedom to be sure. Just like we need to buy a license and pay taxes to drive our cars on the highways. But those of us who actually create valuable intellectual property, will again have a way to make money on our creations without being sucked dry by parasites who believe that they do not have to pay for what they use.

Feeding parasites is NOT a marketing plan.

Best regards,

Bill
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"Don't take it personally. But this shit is a science." J.J.Blair

“The Internet is only a means of communication,” he wrote. “It is not an amorphous extraterrestrial body with an entitlement to norms that run counter to the fundamental principles of human rights. There is nothing in the criminal or civil law which legalizes that which is otherwise illegal simply because the transaction takes place over the Internet.” Irish judge, Peter Charleton

i dig music

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Re: YES! .. File Sharing Bust
« Reply #663 on: May 31, 2009, 11:32:25 AM »

Bill Mueller wrote on Sun, 31 May 2009 08:40

Bernardo wrote on Sat, 30 May 2009 23:09

It should be of no importance to you, then, the fact that the combined record sales of one of his bands are in excess of one million copies so far, all released by the label he's funded and co-owned for more than 25 years now. Just some nobody.



But those of us who actually create valuable intellectual property, will again have a way to make money on our creations without being sucked dry by parasites who believe that they do not have to pay for what they use.



http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/28111/726/
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PP

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Re: YES! .. File Sharing Bust
« Reply #664 on: June 01, 2009, 03:21:40 AM »

Quote: “Radio Head became Radio Head because of the "old" model.

- Snipped for Shortness -

Quote: "It was a forgone conclusion they would easily capitalize on the "free" model they created.”




This seems a fair point.

And I thank you for making it.




Respectfully, the questions that occur to me then are these?

Considering that many hereabouts have been bemoaning their inability to fully capitalise on their talent.

And openly blamed the ills of wider society specifically expressed in the technological revolution that has occurred.




As many of the posters in this thread are of at least the same age as Radiohead, and the majority considerably older.

It seems to have been forgotten, that they have lived as long, under both the Old Business Model and indeed, the Newly Emerging Situation.


Thus they have had the Full Advantage of the Complete Availability of Both Models to Them!

But do not appear to have achieved, anything approaching anywhere near.

The measure of success that Radiohead have under Both Models.

During precisely the same time frame altogether.

The question remains then.

Why Not?




There surely must be some additional limiting factors in the equation that have not been properly addressed.

For me personally, the most interesting aspect of this thread is that it is indeed the case, that quite separately, in many individual cases, there appear to be distinct, underlying causes, clear reasons that are apparent to those sensitive enough to observe them. Piecing the intimate parts together that eek out progressively over time has become an utterly fascinating process.

Furthermore, for some, unless these underlying reasons for failure are squarely, truthfully and objectively faced, it remains entirely possible that the individuals involved may psychologically cripple themselves, and go through life, projecting the blame for all their own personal and professional failures, directly onto others, far, far away.  

For of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these, "It might have been!"

There are a great many people that live their lives, in this way.

And are never able to face the truth!

What an absolute.

Cop Out!




There are innumerable people just like this.

They have a talent, but are not fashionably vogue.

They have a genuine desire, but no utterly compelling drive.

They try to make their way, but lack entrepreneurial endeavour.

They track recordings and sign contracts, but lack business flair and acumen.

They want to be famous, but have no particularly attractive, personally dynamic, charisma.

They want their songs to be hits, but lack the ability to write hooks, and directly connect emotively.

They exercise an ability to write, but their mediocre content, lacks insight, depth, soul, reaching power and vibrancy.  

They really want to make it, but fail to command the stage presence necessary to captivate an audience convincingly.

In the final analysis, they will fail to ever truly hold an audience in their palm of their hands, either on stage or on record, and that is the real point.

They need to come face to face with.

Simon!




Secondly.

It is easy to write that..


Quote: “It was a forgone conclusion they would easily capitalize on the "free" model they created.”



With the benefit of hindsight, after the event!




But the question remains, that if it was so very easy to foresee?

And there was clearly so very much money to be made by this simple process.

Why on Earth did no Major Record Label, Established Artist, or Newly Emerging Talent.

Make this Business Strategy stick with such Resounding Success, long before Radiohead did?




Perhaps they have all become so very benefactory in nature and character that they now have a personal objection to making money?




The truth is

Someone with Brains

Perspicacious Acumen  

And Entrepreneurial Business Flair

Was needed to think of it in the first place!




If that is not the case

If it was so really very easy

Then why have not numerous others done it?




Its

One thing

To try it after

Someone else has.

But another entirely

To think of the idea in the first place

Formulate a presentation that is attractive

And then, spectacularly pull off an incredible coup

That takes everyone’s breath away, in admiration or envy.




Which is it for you?

Really?




Quote “I found it kind of selfish,

pompous and disruptive,”





With Respect.

You obviously, don’t know them.

'Radiohead’s Phil Selway became a volunteer over 16 years ago for Samaritans and has found that the band and the organisation have both enriched his life in different ways.

Now he and his fellow Radiohead members are supporting Samaritan's latest campaign with an exclusive live recording. A supporter of mental health awareness.

Selway believes anyone can need Samaritans at some point in their lives.

But may find it hard to ask for help.'



     http://www.bbc.co.uk/oxford/radiohead/selway_samaritans.shtm l

     http://www.ateaseweb.com/2002/04/15/phil-raises-18000-for-sa maritans/

     http://www.mtv.co.uk/artists/radiohead/news/38267-radiohead- drummer-pledges-support-for-samaritans

     http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/4729899/Live-web-chat-wit h-Radioheads-Phil-Selway.html




I do enjoy reading of all unselfish Charitable Works that P.S.W. Members are involved with.

And search people’s personal web sites especially for this reason.




I Say.

All Power.

To their elbow!

My hat goes off to them.

It’s nice to see a local Group.

Doing so well on a Global Scale.





P
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MDM,

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Re: YES! .. File Sharing Bust
« Reply #665 on: June 01, 2009, 06:01:50 AM »

there is always a winner, even in the worst of times..

in the best of times many people win.

I think it's plain lack of objectivity to say that working music-artists aren't worse off than when vinyl discs were being sold and people weren't ripping-off music.

more people were winning then, and they didn't need Simon or any other committee to judge them and 'help' them.

top-down, trickle-down, down, down, down.


I like the idea of simple trading: I give you my MONEY, you give me your record.

I also like the idea that since there are actual sales, the sales create an actual index of success.
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I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy .. in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry and music.
John Adams (1735-1826) 2nd President, United States

i dig music

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Re: YES! .. File Sharing Bust
« Reply #666 on: June 02, 2009, 12:17:03 AM »

PP wrote on Mon, 01 June 2009 02:21

Quote: “Radio Head became Radio Head because of the "old" model.

- Snipped for Shortness -

Quote: "It was a forgone conclusion they would easily capitalize on the "free" model they created.”




This seems a fair point.

And I thank you for making it.




Respectfully, the questions that occur to me then are these?

Considering that many hereabouts have been bemoaning their inability to fully capitalise on their talent.

And openly blamed the ills of wider society specifically expressed in the technological revolution that has occurred.




As many of the posters in this thread are of at least the same age as Radiohead, and the majority considerably older.

It seems to have been forgotten, that they have lived as long, under both the Old Business Model and indeed, the Newly Emerging Situation.


Thus they have had the Full Advantage of the Complete Availability of Both Models to Them!

But do not appear to have achieved, anything approaching anywhere near.

The measure of success that Radiohead have under Both Models.

During precisely the same time frame altogether.

The question remains then.

Why Not?




There surely must be some additional limiting factors in the equation that have not been properly addressed.

For me personally, the most interesting aspect of this thread is that it is indeed the case, that quite separately, in many individual cases, there appear to be distinct, underlying causes, clear reasons that are apparent to those sensitive enough to observe them. Piecing the intimate parts together that eek out progressively over time has become an utterly fascinating process.

Furthermore, for some, unless these underlying reasons for failure are squarely, truthfully and objectively faced, it remains entirely possible that the individuals involved may psychologically cripple themselves, and go through life, projecting the blame for all their own personal and professional failures, directly onto others, far, far away.  

For of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these, "It might have been!"

There are a great many people that live their lives, in this way.

And are never able to face the truth!

What an absolute.

Cop Out!




There are innumerable people just like this.

They have a talent, but are not fashionably vogue.

They have a genuine desire, but no utterly compelling drive.

They try to make their way, but lack entrepreneurial endeavour.

They track recordings and sign contracts, but lack business flair and acumen.

They want to be famous, but have no particularly attractive, personally dynamic, charisma.

They want their songs to be hits, but lack the ability to write hooks, and directly connect emotively.

They exercise an ability to write, but their mediocre content, lacks insight, depth, soul, reaching power and vibrancy.  

They really want to make it, but fail to command the stage presence necessary to captivate an audience convincingly.

In the final analysis, they will fail to ever truly hold an audience in their palm of their hands, either on stage or on record, and that is the real point.

They need to come face to face with.

Simon!




Secondly.

It is easy to write that..


Quote: “It was a forgone conclusion they would easily capitalize on the "free" model they created.”



With the benefit of hindsight, after the event!




But the question remains, that if it was so very easy to foresee?

And there was clearly so very much money to be made by this simple process.

Why on Earth did no Major Record Label, Established Artist, or Newly Emerging Talent.

Make this Business Strategy stick with such Resounding Success, long before Radiohead did?




Perhaps they have all become so very benefactory in nature and character that they now have a personal objection to making money?




The truth is

Someone with Brains

Perspicacious Acumen  

And Entrepreneurial Business Flair

Was needed to think of it in the first place!




If that is not the case

If it was so really very easy

Then why have not numerous others done it?




Its

One thing

To try it after

Someone else has.

But another entirely

To think of the idea in the first place

Formulate a presentation that is attractive

And then, spectacularly pull off an incredible coup

That takes everyone’s breath away, in admiration or envy.




Which is it for you?

Really?




Quote “I found it kind of selfish,

pompous and disruptive,”





With Respect.

You obviously, don’t know them.

'Radiohead’s Phil Selway became a volunteer over 16 years ago for Samaritans and has found that the band and the organisation have both enriched his life in different ways.

Now he and his fellow Radiohead members are supporting Samaritan's latest campaign with an exclusive live recording. A supporter of mental health awareness.

Selway believes anyone can need Samaritans at some point in their lives.

But may find it hard to ask for help.'



      http://www.bbc.co.uk/oxford/radiohead/selway_samaritans.shtm l

      http://www.ateaseweb.com/2002/04/15/phil-raises-18000-for-sa maritans/

      http://www.mtv.co.uk/artists/radiohead/news/38267-radiohead- drummer-pledges-support-for-samaritans

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/4729899/Live-web-chat-wit h-Radioheads-Phil-Selway.html




I do enjoy reading of all unselfish Charitable Works that P.S.W. Members are involved with.

And search people’s personal web sites especially for this reason.




I Say.

All Power.

To their elbow!

My hat goes off to them.

It’s nice to see a local Group.

Doing so well on a Global Scale.





P



P,

Yes, "selfish and pompous" was a poor choice of words and unfair to the band.

"Disruptive" to the system.....went more to my point.


The point I was trying to make....that RH already had a leg up.

I do believe, and I think that you would agree, there has to be an unknown band out there RIGHT NOW lurking about, that very well could be the next Radio Head in the making.

It can't be that everyone else is "mediocre". That's to broad of an assumption.

I agree its always the first one out of the gate that wins. RH laid the ground work.  

But my question is......the question in front of us is......

How does the next Radio Head gain mass exposure and the success that traditionally follows within the current environment?

P.S. in my humble opinion, In Rainbows certainly was an artistic and conceptual endeavor. But, it was otherwise extremely mediocre from a musical standpoint. Not even close to their previous releases. Ironically enough, their ground breaking model
exposed what I felt to be a lazy effort. The other thing that has not been pointed out regarding the the In Rainbows "pay what you want" model is...they never offered any sort of preview. Some paid nothing, others paid something. I realize that was part of the effect, but after hearing the album,  I some times wonder if the ones who did pay before the first listen....would've done so if they were able to pre-listen.












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Bill Mueller

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Re: YES! .. File Sharing Bust
« Reply #667 on: August 04, 2009, 02:22:43 PM »

Bill Mueller wrote on Sat, 07 March 2009 10:45

Finally something is being done.

Bill

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29566891/

I don't believe these huge fines are reasonable, but this guy is in real trouble. He believes he can file bankruptcy and avoid the fines.

He is a deer in the headlights.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/tech/2009/08/04/am.tenenbau m.music.fine.cnn

If I understand this clause correctly, he is screwed for the rest of his life.

See: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/11/523.html

Quote:

11 U.S.C. (United States Code) Section 523[a]

(iii) any court or administrative order for any damages, fine, penalty, citation, restitutionary payment, disgorgement payment, attorney fee, cost, or other payment owed by the debtor.


Best regards,

Bill
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"Don't take it personally. But this shit is a science." J.J.Blair

“The Internet is only a means of communication,” he wrote. “It is not an amorphous extraterrestrial body with an entitlement to norms that run counter to the fundamental principles of human rights. There is nothing in the criminal or civil law which legalizes that which is otherwise illegal simply because the transaction takes place over the Internet.” Irish judge, Peter Charleton

seedyunderbelly.com

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Re: YES! .. File Sharing Bust
« Reply #668 on: August 04, 2009, 02:40:57 PM »

Be the best you can, Be the best you can't.

organica

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Re: YES! .. File Sharing Bust
« Reply #669 on: August 04, 2009, 04:20:48 PM »

From what I've gathered ( and I'm not trying ) it's leading me toward losing what little respect of the RIAA that remains with me  .  "Who has the biggest wang"  , is soooooo important . I'm grateful though ......  this has virtually nothing to do with art .
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Bob Olhsson

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Re: YES! .. File Sharing Bust
« Reply #670 on: August 04, 2009, 04:39:30 PM »

It has everything to do with financing future art. the guy had turned down a settlement for a few grand because he wanted to make some kind of a statement. Don't commit the crime if you aren't willing to do the time.

Bill Mueller

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Re: YES! .. File Sharing Bust
« Reply #671 on: August 04, 2009, 05:49:48 PM »

a crowley wrote on Tue, 04 August 2009 16:20

From what I've gathered ( and I'm not trying ) it's leading me toward losing what little respect of the RIAA that remains with me  .  "Who has the biggest wang"  , is soooooo important . I'm grateful though ......  this has virtually nothing to do with art .

Andy,

My impression is that this guy is an arrogant little repeat offending pr!ck who thought he could thumb his nose at the legal owners of the products he was misappropriating. He had two opportunities to settle and refused them both. Now he very wrongly thinks he can declare bankruptcy to escape and may just let his professor dig him an even deeper hole.

This all could have been avoided by his just paying for a few CDs. As far as the RIAA is concerned, believe me, if you owned stock in a corporation that did not defend it's intellectual property to the fullest extent of the law, you would sell your stock. Or you would be a fool.

Bill
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"Don't take it personally. But this shit is a science." J.J.Blair

“The Internet is only a means of communication,” he wrote. “It is not an amorphous extraterrestrial body with an entitlement to norms that run counter to the fundamental principles of human rights. There is nothing in the criminal or civil law which legalizes that which is otherwise illegal simply because the transaction takes place over the Internet.” Irish judge, Peter Charleton

Bob Olhsson

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Re: YES! .. File Sharing Bust
« Reply #672 on: August 05, 2009, 12:44:35 AM »

Bill Mueller wrote on Tue, 04 August 2009 16:49

... believe me, if you owned stock in a corporation that did not defend it's intellectual property to the fullest extent of the law, you would sell your stock. Or you would be a fool.
If you were an artist and the label did not defend YOUR intellectual property to the fullest extent of the law, you would have grounds for siezing your masters and getting out of your contract.
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