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[MT Groove]

Are we gonna start disscussing techniques.  Should everyone post their setting?  It seems this WUMP has a bit of a lack of participation, but we still need to complete it.  

[KAyo]

Hi All,

I was file, WUMP X - 3337.

Having taken a short break from the WUMP X files, and having returned to chart down the route taken, I feel, my file does sound slightly grainy!!, a little more, than I'd like it to be.  

Anyway, I used a very simple process, if one could call it that.


Here we go >>

DAW: Vegas Pro v6.0
File: 44/24kHz

Parallel Vegas Buses: All stereo BUS OUTPUTS at -8db.

BUS 1#
UAD 1176LN: Input +6, output: +18, Attack: 2
Release: 2, Ratio: 4, -3db Gain reduction.

BUS 2#
UAD Fairchild: AGC: Lateral, Mode: Unlink, Input +4, Thresholds: Mid -4db, Side -10db, Time constant: 2, output; -10db, Bias L/R: 12o'clock, Balance: Default.

BUS 3#
ROGER Nichols-Detailer: Gain: 0db, Xover: L-M:127hz, M-H:2950Khz, Bias: 0, Drive +0.7db, Dither: NO

On a revisit, maybe, it's these buses which smeared a bit of grain on the frequency realestate, or maybe the A/D or D/A, ... coming up...


Vegas Playback Track:
Waves Ren Desser: Freq: 5633kHz, Type: Bell, Mode: Split, Range: -18db, Threshold: -33db, out put -1db.
It's quite light, considering how sharp the track felt to me.


RME Fireface out >> Input: FocusRITE Platinum Series Master Pack; for slight warm/summing etc..
Comp: Threshold: -5 db, Lf/Hf: Odb, Ratio: 2.0, Slow attack: on, Release: PDS. Tilt: 70hz, LF shelf: -1.5, Mid: 590hz +2.0db, Q: 0.8, HF: 20khz 0.db. Image: in, Width: 1 o'clock'ishh..Limiter: In, Outout: +2db.
The low tilt and and the -1.5db LF shelf, was the reason for the thinning out of the track.

Capture: DAW #2:
WAvelab: RME Firface800: Input, 88 24kHz capture
MAster DAW #2: TC MD3: Only Dither: on 16bit, Output -0.03db.. and the mischievous DC Remove:@ a staggering 6hz, that's it! Another, anemic contributor!

Some would suspect the RME800 FireFace, frankly, I am happy with it, for now. . For the next WUMP, I am keen to run the TC PCore: Dynamic EQ, very nice.....



WUMPING at PSW:
A great filtering and test lab process, and an insight into the juiceiest highlights of peoples and engineers tastes and influences, which eventuely are siphoned onto their works and this thread.

Wonderful stuff!! A serious Inspiration!


Thanks a heap, me matey's..

KAyo

[TotalSonic]

TotalSonic wrote on Sun, 18 February 2007 06:03

My submission was # 2112 (number picked in honor of a really silly Rush album)...

Here's the comments as to my reasoning and thoughts on the mix and where I probably should have done a wee bit different  in a revision...

Quote:

playback at 24 bit / 44.1kHz in SAWStudio send level -10dBFs Lavry Blue MDA824 DAC ->

Getting some overhead via digital attentuation (unlike some others here, for a 24bit file, I don't think this is a bad thing at all as SAW calculaties in 64bit fixed point, so any "degradation" from the attenuation is inaudible to my ear -  and it allows precision of side matching and recall I think a lot of analog attenuators don't.

Quote:

Amek Medici HPF 39Hz

trying to tame the low end rumble - might seems extreme at first glance but the Medici's HPF's are nice and gentle slopes

Quote:

L +1.5dB @ 68Hz

Trying to refocus the low end by giving a bump up so that the kick drum will thump instead of just being soft.  In retrospect - this was too much of a boost at the wrong freq and too wide of a Q - better to have just used a digital eq to pinpont this instead.

Quote:

LM -1.5dB @ 142Hz Q1.75

[/quote]

Again trying to tame the low end. Maybe should have looked for a slightly different center.

Quote:

HM + 0.75dB @ 2.4kkHz Q1 H + 0.75dB @ 5.7kHz, sheen on, shape 8

Both these to get the detail out and make it brighter and more in your face without getting harsh - I love the "Sheen" option on the Medici's high band - it's rare I turn it off when using this band.

Quote:

API 5500 L -1.5dB @ 300 shelf

Big gesture to tame low end

Quote:

LM +2.25dB @ 75Hz

Trying to get the focus on some bass synth fundamentals and bring back some of the bottom the low shelf cut and HPF took out but again in retrospect it was too much, too wide, and at the wrong center freq - live and learn!

Quote:

HM + 0.5dB @ 1.5kHz

For putting some body and snap into the snare.

Quote:

H -1dB @ 15kHz

Trying to warm up what sounded like an edgy digitalish very top end

Quote:

Pendulum OCL-2 THR -2dB RAT 1.75:1 ATT 20ms REL 0.6s no make up gain

Putting a tiny bit  tube vibe on a digital sounding mix - trying to glue the vocal samples that poked out better into the mix and thicken things a tiny bit and take a little edge away.   Long attack time to let the initial transients through though.

Quote:

->Mytek Stero96ADC input: 7 capture (unclipped!) at 24bit/44.1kHz by SAWStudio DAW #2

The way some people at some mastering forum boards carry on you'd think that clipping was somehow the "new black" - but for this piece which already had some distortion on it and the average levels being requested for it seemed very much on the "sensible" side of things - so to me using just limting algorithms to get it "louder" was the best way to proceed.

Quote:

Sonoris MS Codec + 0.5dB Side gain

The compressor closed the nice image on the original mix a tiny bit so this is to open it back up and bring some details which a lot of were on the Side channel out.

Quote:

Sonoris Linear Phase EQ HQ (2x oversample) mode HPF 28Hz slope 24dB/oct -1.5dB @ 180 Hz, shelf, slope 1.5oct.

After capture I realized the low end still needed more taming - so doing it with a digital eq was one way to get more of a precise way to deal with it.  

Quote:

+0.25dB @ 7kHz, 1.8 octave width

Going for a tiny bit extra "sheen" - in retrospect maybe not necessary as seems some felt my submission came in bright - but I was going for ultra airy and detailed type of vibe that's found in many other ambient electronic mixes.  

Anyway - the Sonor LPEQ to my ear is one of the finest digital eq's I've heard out there - the only reason I don't think people talk about it a lot is that it is SAWStudio native plugin format only.  

Quote:

RML Labs Levelizer -2.5dB Threshold -0.26dB output ceiling

The Levelizer is a brickwall peak limiter with a unique algorithm that rescales each wave form - it will never flat top a wave form - so for things like dealing with material with just a few high transient peaks it can be one of the most transparent choices available - the disadvantage of it being that it distorts easier than some other choices once you push it past a certain threshold.  Anyway I noticed when I captured back that there were just a few high transient peaks poking over the body of the mix - I used the Levelizer first at a higher threshold to tame these before sending it to the Elephant for further limiting.

Quote:

Voxengo Elephant 2.5 -3.8 threshold -0.3 output ceiling EL-3 mode shape 0 R shape 2ms "Faster" limiter speed 4x oversample Stereo linking off dithering / dc filter off

Getting most of the GR through this - definitely the Elephant has become more of a "go to" tool for me - definitely one of the better sounding and versatile digtial limiters out there at an incredibly great price.

Quote:

Sonoris Dither TPDF curve 2 (9th order) noise shaping requantize to 16bit

To my ear the Sonoris dither is just as good as POW-R, IDR, Megabit Max, and UV22HR.
Besides being a SAW native plugin - it's also available as an inexpensive VST plugin too - you can download a demo at http://www.sonoris.nl/en/sdtr_vst.php if you're interested in trying it out yourself.
___________

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[MT Groove]

Mine was 6069.  Here's my process:  

In Samplitude, I placed the file on 2 separate tracks.  On track 1 gain was lowered -3dB.  On track 2 the following was inserted:

Waves Doubler 2

Direct signal is muted
Voice 1 gain -4, pan -45, delay 30, Detune 6, depth 0, Rate 1.0
Voice 2 gain -4, pan 45 delay 30, Detune -6, depth 0, Rate 1.0

The signal left/right channel was reversed in Samp's Track Stereo editor.  Gain on this track was set to -11dB.
(I borrowed this trick from Bob Kats who used it in the first WIMP project)

On the Master, the following was inserted:

Voxengo HarmoniEQ

-3.0 @ 32Hz Wide Shelf
-2.0 @ 45Hz Medium Q
+1.7 @ 100Hz Medium Q
Boost: ON
Woofer: ON
Sound: Normal
Quality: High
Out: 0.0

TC Powercore MD3

Xover @ 80Hz and 4.00kHz
Crest: RMS
Auto Gain:  OFF
EQ/Expander/Limter Bypassed
Multiband Compressor.  Same setting were applied to all 3 bands.
Thres:  -5.5
Ratio:  2.00:1
Attack:  30ms
Release: 140ms
Gain: +2.0

Sony Inflator

Input: 0.0
Effect:  100%
Curve:  20.3
Band Split Mode
Output:  0.0

Voxengo Elephant

In: 0.0
Out: -0.2
Lim Mode:  Clip
Stereo Linking: 100%
Oversample: 4x
Dithering: Off
DC Filter: OFf

The file was bounced to 16bit using Pow-r 1 Dither.  That's it.  I know I could have done better after hearing some of the other entries, but oh well.  I definitely learned from this!  

[MT Groove]

TotalSonic wrote on Thu, 22 February 2007 14:24

Quote: Voxengo Elephant 2.5 -3.8 threshold -0.3 output ceiling EL-3 mode shape 0 R shape 2ms "Faster" limiter speed 4x oversample Stereo linking off dithering / dc filter off Getting most of the GR through this - definitely the Elephant has become more of a "go to" tool for me - definitely one of the better sounding and versatile digtial limiters out there at an incredibly great price. ___________ Best regards, Steve Berson

Steve I gotta agree with you here.  I've been using it at the end of my chain on almost everything.  I like the fact that even with oversample mode it preseves the transients very nicely unlike the TC Brickwall Limiter.  I had problems with that Plug smashing the transients at 4x oversampling mode.  I usually use EL-3 mode but for this one I decided to go with Clip!    And yes, the price is a bargain.

[KAyo]

I tried the Elephant limiter, and, apart from the "unlink", I am not too pleased with it.. Saying that, I have used it on a few ocassions, but I prefer the MD3 for sure, with a load of gain going into it, Or even the UAD Plimit compared to the Elephant. I also, much prefer to use analogue limiting, with a touch of MD3 or UAD, to control the overs slightly. I have also noticed, adding the digital limiter to control overs after the analogue one, seems to break the warm cocoon around the file, in return, turning the file slightly brittle, and steely...

Ciao,
KAyo

[aivoryuk]

KAyo wrote on Sat, 24 February 2007 00:21

I tried the Elephant limiter, and, apart from the "unlink", I am not too pleased with it..

yeah i've tried the elephant on many occasions and i just don't seem to get on with it it always just sounds thin to me. i know a lot of people that love it but its just not for me.
the clip mode was just disapointing when pushed hard compared to some other things i use

big fan of the r8brain pro though

[TotalSonic]

aivoryuk wrote on Sat, 24 February 2007 07:40

KAyo wrote on Sat, 24 February 2007 00:21 I tried the Elephant limiter, and, apart from the "unlink", I am not too pleased with it.. yeah i've tried the elephant on many occasions and i just don't seem to get on with it it always just sounds thin to me. i know a lot of people that love it but its just not for me. the clip mode was just disapointing when pushed hard compared to some other things i use

What version of Elephant did you try out?  I truly hated the first version when I demoed it - but the recent v2.5 has substantial improvements over previous versions.  Again - there are a number of parameters that must be set correctly to tailor it well to the particular material in order for it to give superior results - although these are fairly easy to get a handle on after playing around with it for a bit.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[aivoryuk]

TotalSonic wrote on Sat, 24 February 2007 18:39

aivoryuk wrote on Sat, 24 February 2007 07:40 KAyo wrote on Sat, 24 February 2007 00:21 I tried the Elephant limiter, and, apart from the "unlink", I am not too pleased with it.. yeah i've tried the elephant on many occasions and i just don't seem to get on with it it always just sounds thin to me. i know a lot of people that love it but its just not for me. the clip mode was just disapointing when pushed hard compared to some other things i use What version of Elephant did you try out?  I truly hated the first version when I demoed it - but the recent v2.5 has substantial improvements over previous versions.  Again - there are a number of parameters that must be set correctly to tailor it well to the particular material in order for it to give superior results - although these are fairly easy to get a handle on after playing around with it for a bit. Best regards, Steve Berson

versons 2.0 and 2.5, even with it just inserted, to my ears it just changed the sound straight away without it doing anything.

i've run sine waves through it and yeah the results seem as good as any. but when it comes to music i don't get the results i want, im sure one of these days i may see the light but i keep coming back to it and never end up using it

[KAyo]

I've said this before.........

The TC MD3, to me, is a samurai plug!!.... amongst plug-ins.
It truly is!

Sure, since then.. many a changes have occurred admits plug manufacturing and coding etc..Algo/PSP/UAD/Waves. But, I have yet to find a plug, which empowers one with the silkiness or expensiveness in sound, which can be found in the MD3 abundantly. Also, with it's, one shop stop, myriad of controls, coupled with the hardware, attributes that just makes the plug ..POp. Which is true of a lot of hardware based plugs, IMO.

The Algo undoubtedly, does a great job with their plugs, but unfortunately, only EQ.. hopefully, a mastering gymnist plug to appear shortly...

Saying that, the MD3 stands alone as a Multi mastering plug, and yet to be superseded!

Ciao,
KAyo