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[KAyo]

Ello!

Done me listening, now that the wine and cheese is over.
Here is my verdict..



4335: Nice! Very pro smack!.. Well thickened too. Bass maybe a little too boomy. A smidge  little tightening, would help! You'd feel secure, as a client.? Absolutely!

2801: I like the silkiness too it all. It does sound a little too much compression or multiband.  I also understand, ... it's different. u,huh!

6069: Pleasing highs & nice weight age! Although, once again thickened.. but perhaps, a little  too thick though.

1234: Too knocky, and honky.. Nice mids, but over exposed and way to superseded by the  honky'ness. Without all that, the smacks in the right range, and I must admit, the highs are  smooth.... for sure.

2112: This one, I thought embodied everything, expect...(there's always that damn "except"..  isn't it).... anyway, "EXCEPT" the low......, maybe a little too or even .. wayyyy too fluffy. A  re-focus, would fix that, and it would shine even more, than it already does. So close!..

3210: This was a treat too. The temperament was totally felt. The gain structure not a major  contributor, colour, the confidence. Not too talkative or brute'ish, but still visible and stylish.  My nod's on this one.

3337: Totally, the way to go. Maybe, a little or slightly too in your face. But the rest, is quite  smack on. Another one, felt straight of the bat! A definite nod!

1111: Now this, was a total surprise.. I was first taken aback, by all the delays and fluttering  that was going on at the start. I rechecked the DAW and even believed, I had switched on a few FX  myself, by mistake, or maybe the playback returns are echoing back, due to some sort of  routing error...etc....I even downloaded the second time, as it showed up all weird in the  editor too. All this because, I wasn't (yet) ready to believe, a mastering engineer would ever  venture that far. I guess, once again it proves; Do not assume anything! Period!
Well, I guess, one could say, "that's what you asked for,... Do what feels best"!!???!!..
Apart from that delay stuff, it's a really nice take, as a master.. Loads of fun:)!!.


More on techniques later..

Ciao,
KAyo

[TotalSonic]

I was one of the participants in this WUMP (first I've gotten to do since WUMP IV) - although hopefully even with the notes below everyone still won't know which one is mine.   First - thanks to Kayo for his excellent contribution and to Brad for once again hosting this - these are always nicely educational for me to get to do.

This WUMP, with 8 participants, didn't seem to attract as much interest as the others, but as a participant it's a heckuva lot easier to do the evaluation and note posting when they are this size - and maybe we want to think of limiting future ones to 12 or less submissions for each one to keep them equally manageable.  

Anyway - here's the notes based on initial general impressions - listening via B&W Nautilus 802's, Ultrasone PROline 650's and a little bit on Yamaha NS-10M's:

original mix - a nice down tempo electronic dance cut leaning to the ambient collage side of things.  
Generally a decent  mix except for:
* the low end is extremely boomy and rumbly with no focus to it - i.e. for the most part the kick is buried and doesn't have any thump or definition to it, and the bass synth line is more rumble than fundamental notes, which to my ear diminishes the clarity .
* a few of the vocal samples jump out of the mix and seem disconnected from the rest of the music
* a tiny bit of "digititus" in the overall sound, which can be expected for electronic based stuff like this

1111 - very washed out and slightly distorted due to what sounds like the addition of tons of delay/echo/reverb.  In mastering adding these things to a mix in more than very subtle amounts unless specifically asked for by the client is extremely misguided as it is essentially subverting the decisions already made by the mixer (and for this particular track completely uncalled for to my ear), and I can't imagine this type of treatment ever getting approved by the client.  The original mix is much more satisfying a listening experience to me than this master is.

1234 - this sounds also like a bit of a remix from the original mix's balance as the result of most likely radically different processing on the Mid and Side channels to me.  As a result the Low end has been really nicely tamed and the kick drum is now unburied and focused, and the snare has lots of body (if not as much snap) too - but at the cost that the nice wide image and side details of the original mix were lost.  I think using some of this approach is warranted in that the kick really did gain some nicer focus on this one than the other masters - but in general feel too much other important elements were sacrificed.  

2112 - mids aggressively brought forward for more snare snap and overall detail than the rest of the masters.  Perhaps a tiny bit hollow sounding at some points - and low end is not tamed or as focused as well as some of the others though, with some rumble and resonances still jumping out at the bottom.  Beside these faults overall a very good "sheeny" presentation of the mix.  

2801 - low end tamed nicely on this one- however it sounds like the "air" band was really cranked giving the hi-hat and top a grainy and fatiguing "poke you in the ear with an ice pick" kind of effect.  Mids also seem not as present as they could be.  

3210 - slightly quieter than the rest - this one generally stays at -1.5dBFs, but while there are a few digital overs in this one, there are only a few higher transient peaks reaching to 0 -  so seems it could be made with higher average level with very little additional artifacts as a result.  Overall the spectrum is very nicely balanced although this particualar master doesn't really "jump out" at me the way I think the track warrants.

3337 - another well balanced master although low end sounds a tiny bit anemic as a result of a little too much taming of the bottom rumble.  

4335 - overall a very good master and possibly the one closest to the sound of the mix, but low end seems a bit too rumbly, and mids could be a tiny bit more present.  

6069 - again nicely balanced - although bottom sounds a tiny bit too rumbly and mids are not as present as they might be - leading snare to sound a little more "softish" on this one.

In general I noticed most of the masters neglected to smooth out the fade out ending -  so most have slightly abrupt endings to me.  The only fades I particularly liked were on 4335 & 2112.  

Overall I think most efforts were in the ballpark and could be turned into excellent masters with some minor adjustments to them - with the exceptions of 1111, 1234, 2801 - which would need some larger adjustments - as to me these made the cardinal mistake of really changing the balance of the instruments from the original mix.

I also think the master would ultimately sound better if the low end problems were fixed in the mix - I think re-eqing and rebalancing the kick and the bass synths so that they both share the low end space better - and so that the kick had more thump and definition, while the bass synth being more "note" and less "rumble" would do much more good than heavily re-eqing the low end in mastering.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[KAyo]

TotalSonic wrote on Wed, 07 February 2007 21:07

This WUMP, with 8 participants, didn't seem to attract as much interest as the others, but as a participant it's a heckuva lot easier to do the evaluation and note posting when they are this size - and maybe we want to think of limiting future ones to 12 or less submissions for each one to keep them equally manageable.

This is true, it did feel easier to go through this WUMP, compared to a full packed WUMP. BUt, more participation can also be a good thing, just a little more cumbersome. Even so, I always look forward to a WUMP'ing!!

[chrisj]

I've just uploaded the plugins to Kagi for the store- that HUGE task is now more or less done, and I'm thinking I'm going to return to WUMP, download everything, and do a proper listening/commenting. It was just pathetic and sad how nobody deigned to comment. Can't have that.

[MT Groove]

I've downloaded all the files and will take a listen very soon.  This one seems to have a lack of participation.  But I think if we get everyone who participated to comment, it'll be worthwhile.

[aivoryuk]

TotalSonic wrote on Thu, 08 February 2007 03:07

This WUMP, with 8 participants, didn't seem to attract as much interest as the others,

I would have submitted mine but i couldn't for love or money ftp transfer to brad's server. I tried internet explorer and smart ftp. i can't even see the files through ftp.

i can see them through the
www.euphonicmasters.com/wump link

I have no problems with the massive server

[KAyo]

Hmmm!!
Maybe, it's that pesky Win-XP firewall. It played havoc with me in the beginning. But, then I switched to a ftp software called "Smart ftp", from there on, it all went like clockwork.

Hopefully, this will help, the next time around.

Cheers,
KAyo

[ATOR]

1111
murky and dull. I don't like the reverb/delay haze.

1234
Way too much 200Hz. Percussion details are lost and image collapses

2112
sounds good, it's mid heavy what makes it too in your face and lose spaciousness, the bottom of the kick/snare is ok but the lower end needs taming

2801
lacks body, sounds a little hollow, top end (shaker) is very loud

3210
sounds good, a lot like the mix. Nice wide space. Kick/snare  could use more body and presence, but then it probably wouldn't be wide anymore  

3337
lacks punch, highs and high mids are grainy. You lost clarity, depth and smoothness. You may wanna upgrade a weak link in your chain.

4335
low end <100Hz is outa control, could use more meat in the the lower mids, nice wide image

6069
I like the body you gave the kick but it makes the bridge murky, the extra body also masks the percussion a little



3210 is my fav. There's no winner that realises the full potential of the song because the biggest issues need opposite actions:

solid kick/snare (centre) vs wide image
solid kick/snare (more 200Hz) vs opening up the mids
solid kick vs flabby low synth

If there would be a remix with bigger kick (with real low end) and a fat snare you could have it all. This is of course if the track was meant to move people. I'm a big kick fan and I'll mess up the whole track to get a decent kick if I have to (what I basicly did  


Thaks Kayo for letting us have a go at your mix.

[ATOR]

I was surprised at the difference in comments esp on 3337 so I listened to that one again. The master is well balanced but there's something about the sound that really turns me off. It's a Vintage Warmer / Voxengo compressor / bad ADDA convertor sound. If you'd do the same thing with better tools it would sound good to me too.

[aivoryuk]

KAyo wrote on Thu, 08 February 2007 10:09

Hmmm!! Maybe, it's that pesky Win-XP firewall. It played havoc with me in the beginning. But, then I switched to a ftp software called "Smart ftp", from there on, it all went like clockwork. Hopefully, this will help, the next time around. Cheers, KAyo

thats what im using is smart ftp and it just doesn't do anything

[TotalSonic]

aivoryuk wrote on Thu, 08 February 2007 09:45

TotalSonic wrote on Thu, 08 February 2007 03:07 This WUMP, with 8 participants, didn't seem to attract as much interest as the others,   I would have submitted mine but i couldn't for love or money ftp transfer to brad's server. I tried internet explorer and smart ftp. i can't even see the files through ftp. i can see them through the www.euphonicmasters.com/wump link I have no problems with the massive server

I also had some minor problems with the Euphonic server -
I uploaded with Fetch 5 on a Mac - but when I uploaded the file would be renamed to some garbage name without an extension and I had to rename it to WUMPX-****.wav after the upload completed.  

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[MT Groove]

I couldn't get the FTP to work with Internet Explorer, but using Smart FTP did the trick easily.

[chrisj]

I was 3210. *bows*

I used only my new AU plugs, in AULab. Could have gone way louder, I just didn't like it being too dense.

I used these: Pressure, Highpass, Peak Limiter, Contingent Dither, Boosts, Density, Air.

Now you can too

http://store.kagi.com/cgi-bin/store.cgi?storeID=6FEGJ_LIVE&a mp;&

I'll crit the thread as soon as I can, got a bit of mastering stuff to attend to.

Chris Johnson
airwindows

[Vladislavs Korehovs]

One question, is it possible to master without changing Balance of Instruments? Weel, apply dither? Apply slight compression? Take money for that?

Yes, i agree i overused abit Delay and what? I noticed it have darkened my master, but hey, most of you produced so bright masters, what those souded so Harsh harsh and harsh to me... is it Good to have harsh top end or have dullnes? i think comprimise required...

Most of submissions have too bright top end..
While in most commertial CD top end is not boosted...
Except maybe Dance music, where it is hell limited and harsh..
And what about Fullnes? Still not much energy and thin sounded in most cases.

[aivoryuk]

MT Groove wrote on Thu, 08 February 2007 19:57

I couldn't get the FTP to work with Internet Explorer, but using Smart FTP did the trick easily.

managed to crack it password is case sensitive doh!!! oh well never mind, next time