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[Extreme Mixing]

I've read a few things about them on this forum.  Just wondering if anyone has heard the new ones he's making with the Neumann K67 capsule and the EF86 tube.  Are they special enough to consider buying?  They aren't cheap, and I wonder if they will hold their value.


Steve

[J.J. Blair]

I haven't heard about and EF86 based mic, yet.  He has been using a Peluso made K67 type capsule even for his EF14 based TM1.  

Whether or not his stuff sounds like the vintage mics that inspired them, I can tell you that they do sound good and he puts a lot of care and thought into them.  He always uses the best cables and connectors, and not the cheap Chinese stuff.  He stopped using one famous transformer manufacturer, because they had a problem following his instructions to make the BV8 type transformer to historical specs.  I am a little confused why he uses a dual backplate capsule for the U47 inspired TM1, though.  I mean, it's a nice sounding mic, but if you are going to go for all the opther aspects of a 47, why not use the same type of capsule, too?

I recommend his stuff all the time in the sub $1,500 category for friends looking for inexpensive tube mics.

[Extreme Mixing]

Thanks for the reply, JJ.  I'm really looking for something special, not just a cheap microphone.  I'd love to pick up a Vintage U47 or a U67 for that matter, but I can't really spend the 10K this year.  For the Neumann capsule version he's asking about 2.5K, which is pretty comparable to the Lawson, Rode, and Soundelux microphones.  They have a little more name recognition, and would probably  be easier to sell should I want or need to.  That's a hoot!  I haven't really sold anything gear related in years.  It seems to always come back in style, and I'm glad to have it.

Anyway, I have a C12 VR and an AKG C414EB with the CK12 capsule.  I'm looking for something that will add another color to the line up.  Any suggestions?

Steve

[MI]

You can find a Soundelux U95 used for around $1500. It's based around a EF86 tube and Cinemag tranny (IIRC). The idea is a U67 tribute sound.

Or look for a used Gefell CMV-563 or U57. The U57 may run abt 2k though. Both have M7 capsule.

Mario

[Steve Hudson]

Mario I. wrote on Thu, 07 December 2006 15:06

You can find a Soundelux U95 used for around $1500. It's based around a EF86 tube and Cinemag tranny (IIRC). The idea is a U67 tribute sound. Or look for a used Gefell CMV-563 or U57. The U57 may run abt 2k though. Both have M7 capsule. Mario

The Soundelux U95S (not the same as a U95) is also a good bet in this budget range...very similar vibe to a 47, while IMO the U99 sounds closer to a U67. Both nice mics.

[J.J. Blair]

Not a fan of the Lawson, personally.  I'd probably rather have the Pearlman over that.

I'm sure David Bock will correct me if I'm wrong, the U99 is essentially a U67 (-style mic) with the NFB circuit removed, so as to not attentuate the high end.  The vocals I've heard cut using one were outstanding.

BTW, I thought Oliver was making Soundelux's xformers?

[MI]

J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 07 December 2006 18:08

BTW, I thought Oliver was making Soundelux's xformers?

Ahh my bad J.J...sorry. Perhaps in past? Cause there was pics in Cinemag's web site refereence to Cinemag Customers...

http://cinemag.biz/cork_board/corkboardCustomers.html

Or maybe on certain models? Can anyone please confirm?

Mario

[matucha]

Mario I. wrote on Thu, 07 December 2006 22:06

Or look for a used Gefell CMV-563 or U57. The U57 may run abt 2k though. Both have M7 capsule.

I wouldn't mention CMV563 and UM57 in the same sentence, I'd try to describe the sound, because they sound very different. CMV563+M7 has it's big proximity bump and smooth top. UM57 sounds smaller, with less of the bottom and proximity effect affects higher frequencies. So they will work with different voices and you can't substitute one for other.

Mario, maybe you didn't mean it, that they sounds the same, but I write it to people who don't know.

[J.J. Blair]

matucha wrote on Sat, 09 December 2006 01:29

Mario I. wrote on Thu, 07 December 2006 22:06 Or look for a used Gefell CMV-563 or U57. The U57 may run abt 2k though. Both have M7 capsule. I wouldn't mention CMV563 and UM57 in the same sentence, I'd try to describe the sound, because they sound very different. CMV563+M7 has it's big proximity bump and smooth top. UM57 sounds smaller, with less of the bottom and proximity effect affects higher frequencies. So they will work with different voices and you can't substitute one for other.

The CMV563 and UM57 are identical, electronically.  At least, mine are.  But the difference is the capsules.  First, not only might you have some acoustic differences between the CMV563 lollipop head and the UM57 basket, but they are different capsules inside.  Even though they are both called an "M7", the lollipop capule is a single diaphragm, single backplate, and the UM57's capsule is a dual diaphragm, single backplate.  I don't know if the backplate design is the same on both or not.  Maybe somebody can tell us that, but they are indeed different capsules, even though they are both called M7s.  

BTW, for around two grand, the UM57 is a superb mic.  It's even better if you upgrade the transformr with the one Oliver makes for it, and replace whatever Eastern Bloc tube is in it with a real Telefunken EC92.

[matucha]

I just had my CMV and M7 repaired (body by peter drefahl and m7 by Gefell factory).

I was prepared to have the transformer, caps, tube and maybe more changed, but Peter wrote me, that my mic is in a great condition and measures along with his best... it was one of the latest pieces (sn 12xxx). I was surprised, but happy, because I've just spared 100euro .

Gefell changed the capsule with a new one (saying reskining would take more time, and I knew that capsule wasn't all great). It wasn't cheap taking around 500euro out of my pocket.

Now when I compare the new M7 and other (old) one I have, there is a big difference in the smoothness of the HF. The old one sounds shrill with louder esses, like distorted/grainy. The new one has no problem staying pleasant. Nice work!

Don't know what would Oliver's trnsfrmr do to this mic, but at this point I'm not eager to mess with what's working .

Should get my UM57 checked too... it became a bit hi-passed sounding lately (at least compared to CMV it is thin thin and so it is compared to sound in the room).

But that reminds me that samples of UM75 my friend made. It wasn't uber-big sounding thing, but it was certainly nice. Don't want to be very conclusive here, because it isn't 1st hand expirience... rather 1.5 hand expirience . However I feel like UM57 is supposed to sound "that" way and it is nice alternative to CMV563+M7, while maintaining that Gefell family character.


So if anyone has it doubts about the sound of old Gefell mic, don't rule out the capsule, even if it has lowend in place and sounds only lil wierd up there.


Price of a checked and repaired mic climbs up to $2500-$3000 unless you are very very very lucky and you get great one for your $2000. And you don't want piece that doesn't work well do you? I've lived with 3 of them for a long time and it was pain to make them work with eqs/de-essers/comps.

So it is around the same as a pair of Pearlmans  

[J.J. Blair]

Matous, pehaps the shrillness of the older M7 is due to the PVC shrinkage over time?

[matucha]

It is possible, however I've always thought that if PVC shrinks, the capsule will sound highpassed and shrill, not just "strange" in the sibilance area. Ok, the old capsule also sounds a bit less relaxed overal, but the difference is not so obvious in some cases esp. on lower SPL and nonagressive source. Push it a bit harder and it "collapses" into shrillness.

I still need to test it more, but so far I've tried things I had problems with before and it seems it was the capsule.

[J.J. Blair]

Maybe Klaus or somebody can give us the definitive answer on symptoms of PVC shrinkage?

[Klaus Heyne]

Original PVC M7 capsules sound all over the map after a while, and especially after a few decades. The drying up of the PVC typically results in a tightening up of the bass region and it can indeed sound pretty ugly in the mids as well in some cases.

What I would recommend on any PVC M7 capsule that has two diaphragms: try out both sides as potential front side/cardioid option, and you will find that each side has a distinctive personality, one always more pleasant than the other.

Whether any of the two sides available will be pleasant ENOUGH is another story...

[Extreme Mixing]

Looks like I have a resounding ho hum on the Pearlman Microphone from the peanut gallery.  I know that he is now offering a genuine Neumann K67 capsule instead of the Peluso one, and has made a few other tweaks as well.  The price is about a grand more than JJ mentioned.  In fairness, he says the mic is closer to a 67 in sound rather than a 47.  I think I'll still have a listen for myself, if I can get an at home demo.  My best bet may be to wait for a few months and see if I can put together something on a U47 or a 48.  It really does me no good to wind up with the 3rd or 4th best sounding mic in the room.  That just means it won't get used very often.

Steve