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[Daniel Farris]

J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 29 January 2010 11:41

Lace Sensors do not sound "shimmery." Townshend, Clapton, Beck.   Nothing "shimmery" about their tones.

I resisted the urge to specifically mention Clapton.

Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_Iq4Wc37Z8

While not the eighties, the first 30 seconds of this epitomizes what I'm talking about.

DF

[Podgorny]

I can't say that guitargeek.com is wrong about Robert Smith (who indeed has cool tone).
But I've definitely seen some questionable stuff on there.

[Daniel Farris]

Just to clarify what I mean by eighties shimmer, the ultimate specimen is this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHYIGy1dyd8

Bryan Ferry had a lot of it going on too in the mid-eighties.

And here are some other great mid-eighties examples:

http://www.danielfarris.com/townsend.mp3

http://www.danielfarris.com/beck1.mp3

http://www.danielfarris.com/beck2.mp3

http://www.danielfarris.com/clapton.mp3

Nile Rodgers was really rockin' it on Madonna's records too.

Glassy McGlass all around.

DF

[JGauthier]

No need to explain. Ive played guitar for over 25 years and lace sensors SUCK and sound stagnant. Ive never picked up a guitar with those that made me thing, "wow that sounds great". They are the digital equivalent of pickups compared to my budz or Lollar GVCGs or even my texas specials.

Or even better they are the DX7 of pickups- all you get is digital bells... If I never hear a DX7 again, it will be too soon.

BTW- Clapton plays sensors cause hes got Fender so far up his ass they are performing a colonoscopy... He'd play a mexican strat if they paid him enough. Relativity people...

Lace sensors sound didn't make anyone a guitar god... Not even close!

That said- I like the JC120 AND the Cure!

[J.J. Blair]

Daniel Farris wrote on Fri, 29 January 2010 13:35

J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 29 January 2010 11:41 Lace Sensors do not sound "shimmery." Townshend, Clapton, Beck.   Nothing "shimmery" about their tones. I resisted the urge to specifically mention Clapton. Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_Iq4Wc37Z8 While not the eighties, the first 30 seconds of this epitomizes what I'm talking about. DF

 
I have a Strat Plus with LCs (silver in the bridge).  Sounds nothing like that.  That sounds like a Piezo or something.  

I don't know what LCs you guys have been listening to, but the ones I have are very far from suck.  In fact that Strat sounds better than my Eric Johnson model, most of the time.  I'm super picky about tone, and that thing has been a work horse for me.  The ones in Townshend's guitars sound great, too.  

[John Ivan]

I have an Ultra Plus that has a Red Humbucker, a Blue single and a Gold single.. I love these pick ups.. These are darker and thicker in the mid range than Texas specials..

When I want traditional blues tones, I reach for this guitar..The 80's "chime tones" pointed out earlier have almost nothing at all to do with which pick-ups.. In fact, those tones are so processed and butchered into submission that any pair of single coils will do the trick..

Pick-up selection has never made anyone a guitar God.

If I played some lines on the red LC, and then played the same lines on the bridge pick-up in my smart wood Les Paul, and then played the lines on the bridge pick-up of my PRS { Custom 24 with Mccarty. The only PRS I ever found that I liked}, I doubt anyone could point out the LC's.. Well, maybe you could pick out which one was the bolt on?, I don't know..

I say it's 90% in our hands. Or More.

Ivan..........................

[Daniel Farris]

J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 29 January 2010 23:12

I don't know what LCs you guys have been listening to, but the ones I have are very far from suck.

I don't think they suck. They're certainly capable of other, much cooler, sounds. But they also do that bright glassy thing pretty effortlessly in my experience.

DF

[Tim Halligan]

Daniel Farris wrote on Sat, 30 January 2010 16:32

J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 29 January 2010 23:12 I don't know what LCs you guys have been listening to, but the ones I have are very far from suck.   I don't think they suck. They're certainly capable of other, much cooler, sounds. But they also do that bright glassy thing pretty effortlessly in my experience. DF

FWIW, I tend to associate that sound more with EMG pickups than anything else.

Cheers,
Tim

[J.J. Blair]

Daniel Farris wrote on Sat, 30 January 2010 00:32

J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 29 January 2010 23:12 I don't know what LCs you guys have been listening to, but the ones I have are very far from suck.   I don't think they suck. They're certainly capable of other, much cooler, sounds. But they also do that bright glassy thing pretty effortlessly in my experience. DF

I'm telling you, there's nothing bright or glassy about them.  That selection you chose sounds like a transducer.  I've never heard a LC sound anything close to that.  

[Daniel Farris]

J.J. Blair wrote on Sat, 30 January 2010 08:41

I'm telling you, there's nothing bright or glassy about them.  That selection you chose sounds like a transducer.  I've never heard a LC sound anything close to that.

I don't know what to say J.J. I'm not calling you a liar. I believe you when you say that. I'm only speaking from my limited experience of having owned a Strat with Laces in the neck and bridge and an EMG in the middle for about seven years and having recorded maybe a half a dozen or so (not that many I concede) Lace Strats over the years.

I'm a dork about lots of things, but I'm not a pickup dork the way you are. It was a casual observation. Maybe what I heard was a combination of different pickups in a certain position.

So, since I never intended to have a discussion about pickups, but rather a pretty pervasive clean guitar sound from the eighties, I hereby retract my assertion.

Maybe Wittman could tell us exactly what the culprit is. You don't do that many hit records in the eighties without knowing how to get that sound.

DF

[Daniel Farris]

William, if you're reading this, did you work on "Change of Heart?"

If so, what can you tell us about that clean guitar sound?

DF

[wwittman]

J.J. Blair wrote on Sat, 30 January 2010 02:12

The ones in Townshend's guitars sound great, too.

challenge


but,
I think that kind of hollow, chime-y, scoopy clean guitar sound, to ME, tends to be EMGs in a Strat-type, plus chorus.

I don't even think JC120s were all that often the secret of those sounds - although they had their run, I don't think people used them as much as you might think


I did NOT record Change Of Heart, but I am pretty sure that guitar is DI into the desk. (is it Nile playing on that?)



I know I read a very extensive 'interview' slash 'explanation' of The Outfield's first record that was as close to completely wrong as anyone could imagine coming.
It indeed claimed everything was JC120s (which were completely unharmed in the making of that record) and SPX90 (which I am not sure was actually out yet when we did it)

Chorus pedals in front of Marshalls were MUCH more common

[Phil Mayor]

A member of my family works for The Cure's tech crew...I can tell you he used a '76 4x10 Roland JC-160...and that thing sounds amazing, takes pedals really, really well. You really wouldn't know it's transistor. Obviously the built in distortion is hilariously bad...but then it has one of the best clean sounds you can build on with pedals if thats your thing...

I like what John Mcgeoch(Magazine/Banshees/PIL) did with the JC120 combining it with a Marshall at the same time. Plus he was a ridiculously creative guitarist which helped.

[zakco]

I owned a couple of Lace Sensor equipped strats when they came out. While I wouldn't say they outright suck, they lack much of the character that I consider to be classic strat tone. Just a little too polished and not enough attitude for my tastes...

Seeing as we're reminiscing here, does anyone remember fenders' attempts to improve their nuts? Both the roller nut and the ball bearing version...had one of each. ouch. Hard to beat a chunk o' bone.

-Z-

[breathe]

I HATE these Lace Sensors you give sound references to!!!  These sounds are like the ESSENCE of what I hate about electric guitar music.

Nicholas

Daniel Farris wrote on Fri, 29 January 2010 13:35

J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 29 January 2010 11:41 Lace Sensors do not sound "shimmery." Townshend, Clapton, Beck.   Nothing "shimmery" about their tones. I resisted the urge to specifically mention Clapton. Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_Iq4Wc37Z8 While not the eighties, the first 30 seconds of this epitomizes what I'm talking about. DF