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Author Topic: Tube in Elvo/Schoeps M222  (Read 13522 times)

mdemeyer

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Tube in Elvo/Schoeps M222
« on: December 21, 2006, 03:33:14 pm »

Curious to know what tube is used in this mic.  Anyone know?  The Elvo site says...

"it unites a first-quality tube from the original AEG-TELEFUNKEN production with up-to-date circuitry."

Thanks!

Michael
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David Satz

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Re: Tube in Elvo/Schoeps M222
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2006, 07:53:24 pm »

It's a selected Telefunken AC 701k. Schoeps has a supply of these left over from the M 221 series.

--best regards

P.S., added later: Until some time this year, the tube in the Schoeps M 222 was indeed a selected Telefunken AC 701k just as in the M 221 and other well-known "vintage" condenser microphones. However, the supply of these is naturally finite and the company needs to set some aside for repair of existing microphones. So the decision was made to change over to a different tube type for the production of new M 222 amplifiers.

When I said it was the AC 701k, I knew that a change in tube type was under discussion, but I considered that to be privileged information about a possible future decision. Meanwhile apparently the change has actually been made and carried out--a fact which I didn't know until I contacted the U.S. rep about it this morning. I regret the situation.

--D.S.
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mjgreeneaudio

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Re: Tube in Elvo/Schoeps M222
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2006, 12:06:29 am »

David Satz wrote on Thu, 21 December 2006 17:53

It's a selected Telefunken AC 701k. Schoeps has a supply of these left over from the M 221 series.

--best regards

Wow.  This is quite interesting and I ponder if maybe they are on the right trend.  Instead of companies making bad knock offs of past products,  M-149, M-147, AKG C-12VR, to name a few.  Maybe Schoeps has the right idea of taking a very high class brand and making it even better with a redesigned tube design that is actually closer on the bench to the original product than it is to the marketing department.  

It would seem that the stock would probably be limited and I am sure very expensive per unit but I think JJ put it best in another thread.  Great quality mics are not what company's are interested in making today.  (With exceptions of course)  They are expensive to make and perhaps the market is not large enough justify it for the big company's but maybe one other great mic company has finally figured out that there is a market for it.

I am sure it is easier to make another bad NEVE clone than a high quality microphone but I sure wish more company's would put in the expensive R and D and change the microphone world rather than just looking at the bottom line.  

But perhaps that is just my dream!

Michael Greene
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Barry Hufker

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Re: Tube in Elvo/Schoeps M222
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2006, 12:54:10 am »

The M222 has been around for a number of years now.  Elvo makes the microphones for Schoeps.  Elvo is owned by Bernhard Vollmer, who has been the quality control manager at Schoeps for more than 20 years.

Interestingly, Elvo is offering a limited run of 22 supercardioid CMT541.  I'm not sure the reason or the advantage...  Maybe someone (David Satz or Bernhard Vollmer) will fill us in?

In any case, here is the historical information for the mic. http://www.schoepsclassics.de/1965_cmt30_40_50.htm

And here is the link to the general Elvo site.

http://www.mikrofonbau.de/

Barry
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David Satz

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Re: Tube in Elvo/Schoeps M222
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2006, 12:34:34 pm »

Michael and Barry (and any onlookers), please note the P.S. which I've added to my earlier message above. Such is life.

--best regards

P.S.: Barry, this veers close to "for sale" information which should not be discussed on this board, but the CMT microphones to which you refer are used microphones which Bernhard has completely rebuilt at Schoeps using present-day factory parts and methods. As a result their capsules resemble the current MK 41 design more closely than if they had been rebuilt as exact replicas of the originals (which were more like hypercardioids).

But the electronics are still the CMT 5-- type (low-current P 48 with output transformers; capsule polarized directly from the supply voltage without a DC converter), so they don't have quite the dynamic range of Colette-series microphones, nor can they be used with Colette active accessories. As long as you have proper phantom powering available, this type of microphone really offers no particular advantage as such over the present-day type. Nonetheless, even in hard times I have never seriously considered selling the pair which I still own, 30+ years since I bought them ...
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Klaus Heyne

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Re: Tube in Elvo/Schoeps M222
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2006, 03:12:56 pm »

David Satz wrote on Thu, 21 December 2006 16:53

... the decision was made to change over to a different tube type for the production of new M 222 amplifiers.


David, I presume you know which tube model?
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Klaus Heyne
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Barry Hufker

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Re: Tube in Elvo/Schoeps M222
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2006, 03:54:40 pm »

David,

Thanks for the extra info about the M222.

I appreciate your concern about my mentioning the CMT541, but I don't think this veers any closer to "for sale" than any other mic. that is mentioned in this forum.

If a manufacturer brings out a new mic, that is important news for us here.  So, in the case of this mic, I consider this also news.  I made no mention of the price, nor did I encourage anyone to purchase one.  To me it's just news.  I would link to any site that with a new product so people could learn more about it.  I am not interested in promoting the sale of any microphone.

But I do, honestly appreciate your concern.

And maybe Klaus will respond here.  This is such a thin line that is easily crossed.  I think intentions are an important part of any posting.

Barry
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klaukholm

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Re: Tube in Elvo/Schoeps M222
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2006, 04:22:15 pm »

I am curious as to what tube Schoeps has chosen for this new revision of the M222, and what this new version sounds like.

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Kjetil Laukholm
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Malmö Symphony Orchestra

mdemeyer

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Re: Tube in Elvo/Schoeps M222
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2006, 06:44:41 pm »

I, too, am curious.  So I looked inside mine (purchased new within the last month) but the tubes are mounted (and covered) with what looks like black shrink-wrap...   Sad

How about it David?
Michael
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David Satz

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Re: Tube in Elvo/Schoeps M222
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2006, 10:35:50 am »

Michael,
The particular tube type that they're using now is information I have no direct use for, plus I would apparently have to avoid telling it to other people. For me that's awkward and feels rather bad. Consequently it isn't something which I would seek out.

People at Schoeps don't always tell me everything, and realistically, that's perfectly normal, no? I don't submit every aspect of my life to everyone else's judgments, either.

--best regards
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mdemeyer

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Re: Tube in Elvo/Schoeps M222
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2006, 03:55:28 pm »

David,

At least I feel safe now!    Smile

Since I'm not prepared to cut my tubes loose out of curiousity and lack suitable X-Ray vision, I guess this will remain one of those great mysteries of life.

For those interested, over the coming months I will try to make some side-by-side recordings comparing a pair of new M222 bodies with CMC5s and will post samples where allowed by the artists.

Michael
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Rich Mays

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Re: Tube in Elvo/Schoeps M222
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2006, 07:27:39 pm »

It would be even MORE fascinating to compare the M221b with the M222 with AC701.

Rich
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Plush

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Re: Tube in Elvo/Schoeps M222
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2007, 10:56:31 am »

I'll tell you this:

I had to have one of our M222 mics repaired several years ago. Schoeps replaced the AC701 tube with a "new"  AC701.

If the Schoeps factory tried to replace our "as specified, as delivered" AC701 equipped M222 with a different tube, I would raise hell.  It is an essential part of the M222 sound.

I've just learned the news in this thread that the "new" M222 does not use the AC701 tube.

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Hudson Fair
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David Satz

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Re: Tube in Elvo/Schoeps M222
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2007, 05:23:11 pm »

Plush, it's my understanding that when any AC 701k tube in a Schoeps amplifier needs replacement, the replacement will be another AC 701k until their supply is exhausted. The entire reason they decided to stop making new microphones with AC 701k tubes was to postpone that day for as long as possible!

I'm a little surprised that anyone would not respect that choice, especially after needing to have a tube replaced.

--best regards
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Plush

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Re: Tube in Elvo/Schoeps M222
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2007, 10:11:48 am »

David Satz wrote on Thu, 04 January 2007 16:23

Plush, it's my understanding that when any AC 701k tube in a Schoeps amplifier needs replacement, the replacement will be another AC 701k until their supply is exhausted. The entire reason they decided to stop making new microphones with AC 701k tubes was to postpone that day for as long as possible!

I'm a little surprised that anyone would not respect that choice, especially after needing to have a tube replaced.

--best regards


Hello David,

Yes, I am pleased that Elvo/Schoeps has this like-for-like tube replacement policy. I did indeed know that that was the factory policy.

Since I have high respect for Elvo and Schoeps, let's just say that we like to use an optimzed system. We would like to still be able to buy the version with the AC701k.

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Hudson Fair
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