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R/E/P => R/E/P Archives => j. hall => Topic started by: j.hall on June 11, 2004, 10:36:41 am

Title: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: j.hall on June 11, 2004, 10:36:41 am
ok guys, i've finally woken up and accepted the fact that i'll have to get a PT rig for the new mix room if i plan to actually work in it very often.  tape rules, but it's simply dying.

so, i used to be the biggest PT nerd on the face of the earth

but that was back when 5.1 software was new, and pro control just came out.

i need a lot of help here!!!!!!!!!!

do i get HD......which one?

do i go for a cheaper mix + rig?

G5 running OSX?

i'll be coming direct out and mixing on my console.....what do i do?

i need to know about HD

do i need the extra power of HD2 or 3?

Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: Fibes on June 11, 2004, 11:29:52 am
I've been mulling the same question around. Although we have similar situations there are a few things that HD offers that the Mix systems don't. The auto delay compensation is a HUGE factor for me. Sure, you won't be using many plugs but i'll bet you'd want to from time to time. There are some plugs that perform better than the real world stuff, not many but enough to start the justification. Altiverb is one of the reasons for me...

J. you may be able to get by with an HD1 system but after you factor in 24 channels of conversion the cost upgrade to Hd2 accel is minor by comparison. The 888s don't sound as good as the newer converters, something else to think about.

BTW I toyed with the idea of buying a mix system, the fact is support has been dropped and the product is going to sink faster than it has valuewise. Sure PT is sinking the day you buy it, but you have to justify the plusses of being supported for a few months anyway.  Laughing

Just my .02 of verbal diarreahhhhhhhhhh!


BTW Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! this is a sad and funny day!
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: spankenstein on June 11, 2004, 12:14:18 pm
This isn't exactly the direction this thread is going but I'll throw my two cents in any way.

I'm currently using SONAR and have a Delta 1010. It's cheap (comparitavely) and flexible. But it's not Pro Tools and people like the Pro Tools name. I just can't justify to me or my clients the cost of using a Pro Tools rig on that level. Of course I'm definitely at the lower-end/entry level range but I'm busy enough and get paid and everyone's been happy.

Having to spend $11,000 to get a PT rig that performs auto delay compensation is rediculous! The product cycle seems ungodly quick as well. And the fact that they so quickly drop support from older systems is a crock based on how much the stuff actually costs.





Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: Fibes on June 11, 2004, 02:05:38 pm
spankenstein wrote on Fri, 11 June 2004 12:14

Having to spend $11,000 to get a PT rig that performs auto delay compensation is rediculous! The product cycle seems ungodly quick as well. And the fact that they so quickly drop support from older systems is a crock based on how much the stuff actually costs.



I'm sure you can't justify it, to a point i can't but in the other realm where PT is the norm there is pressure from all sides. I feel it, J's feeling it and yes, it's a fucking shame.

If J. had asked what DAW to try we could go into the merits of all of them but like J. I am being forced into buying into it for the sake of compatability with other engineers and studios. If i had PT i could be tracking 2-3 projects a month for another studio in my room and that means more cash. Why don't i now? I get some work out of it but it's a PITA to load up a project when you get used to boot and go with other PT sessions. Who am i to tell a repeat client that he has to deal with it if he wants to work with me. It's the law of the land, we don't have to like it but that's the way it is. In regards to J. who charges by the mix, if it takes him 30 minutes extra to load each PT song into another DAW and he mixes 30 PT songs a month that equals 180 hours per year. 180x$65 is $11,700. I can do a lot with 180 extra "free-time" hours.


Or you could just do the digi002 and utilize some lightpipe converters. Just pray that the track counts are less than 32. Not that they wouldn't be. I'm guessing this method ain't in the cards, it's not pro enough...

Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: meverylame on June 11, 2004, 02:16:06 pm
The mix rig is very tempting at this point. I mean a mix core card is about 1500 to 2000 is go the used route, trash the 888s, and go with the apogee not the greatest but certainly better than the 888) converters at 2000 a pop. As for the auto delay compensation, its nice but I just don't think its 4 or 5 grand nice. Plus if you're runnung a good enough system you could just rely on rtas seeing as I can't imagine you using all that many  plugs anyway.


Plus you get beat detective. You'll be qualified to mix the next Get Up Kids.
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: redelephant on June 11, 2004, 02:48:44 pm
Have you thought about staying native? Perhaps getting a new Apogee AD16x & DA16x. You have a # of choices as far as getting the signal on to your machine. You could get a MOTU 2408 via lightpipe and route your Apogees that way. You could also wait two months until the FirewireX cards are out, that way you can forego the MOTU altogether.

As far as DSP processing goes, you can get a # of different cards to take the weight off of your computer. But in the days of the G5 outboard DSP processing seems a bit silly. Any machine that can run 14 instances of Altiverb is a machine that doesn't need a $8k PT DSP ACCEL card.

Software is the downfall right now if you were to stay native. The main mac app's are still a bit mild. DP is great, but still needs some obvious work. I haven't tried Logic, but I hear it is great if you aren't running any non-ASIO hardware. Cubase is dead on the mac, but Nuendo picks up the slack. Most plugin developers are catching on to the AU trend. URS and Sony are all develivering good quality plugins in AU format, which are IMHO the best plugs available for a PT rig. Waves, Anatres and all the usuals all deliever native formats.

Thats my $.02. I can see where PT was needed 3 years ago, but now I can't forsee PT taking all the market. G5's will get faster and plugins and software will get cheaper. The only thing PT's has going for them is their focus on developing PT only consoles and plugs.
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: j.hall on June 11, 2004, 03:55:04 pm
guys, this is great

let me expound some knowledge of my own

first off, let's drop all the digi sucks cause of support, and turning over new product.....let's just set that aside for one moment and look at some facts

kevin (fibes) is a good friend of mine.  he knows my business probably as well as i do.....and that actually says a lot sense i pretty tight lipped guy when it comes to what i've got going on

hell, i even call all music guide and had my credits pulled......hahahahaha, NO THAT'S INDIE ROCK!!!!!!!!

so, what kevin is talking about is not just what he is thinking, it's REAL

i charge two ways.....i charge per mix....yes that means you pay me X amount of dollars to sit and mix one song only, then you pay the same fee to do the next song

this can benefit you if you want to mix one tune ALL WEEK
it can hurt you if i can stamp out 6 tunes in one day

so.....that being said, i also work off a day rate if the projects is either of those two scenarios

cheaper for you, or more money for my time

if i can sit with my son and make meaningless baby sounds and have him smile and repeat them, i'll be a much nicer person in your session......

if PT allows that to happen.....BRING IT ON!!!!!!

next topic:
PT is the future my friends, embrace or get out of my way
PT holds the market share NO QUESTION

all other DAW are trying to import into it, and it is easily the standard at which all others are judged......these are facts!!!

kevin and i have had many phone conversations about me doing mix work for him as he sees fit.....can you imagine the nightmare i've already gone through converting a DP4 session over to 2" 24 track

it took me 35 hours to do 4 songs.......35 HOURS!!!!!!!!!!!

my friends are shipping drives around the country, i'm begging bands for a tape budget that has now started coming off the top of the actual budget which means.....it comes out of my pocket

other DAW are fine when you are the sole originator of the project and the sole person completing it.....

i'm not looking to find the most used DAW of the basement recordist

if my room is going to succeed it absolutely MUST be equipped the formats that will serve the broadest range of clients i can possibly afford it to

simply put:
2" 24 track, PT.....nothing else!!

nest topic

mix+ vs. HD

lets dive in

mix+ = cheaper, possibly more stable, wider user base.

all those make mix+ a worthy idea....HOWEVER
at the end of this month, all those mix+ rigs are going to fall throw the floor, digi will no longer offer it's KILLER upgrade offer and all the mix rigs will lose tremendous value

you thought they were cheap now (i don't) just wait a few months......people will be giving them away

digi is no longer supporting the mix system
i have a huge problem, i call digi, they hang up....i'm up a creek with a 10k investment and a glorified paper wait that i can play old atari games with

let's look at HD

much higher start up cost....but really, it's not all that much right now

i can probably get into an HD2 rig with 2 192 interfaces and an expansion card in one of em (16 in 24 out) for around 16k
maybe a bit more

here's what that gets me

i'll be one of VERY few HD owners in my area.....you want to use the new stuff, you call me

i'll get digi support, i can use OSX with out any trouble and will get future updates to debug any problems

i can buy current plug-ins

i can boast to anyone, anywhere....."yeah man, i've got HD, i can play any pt session doc you send me"

how long is it before a PT session doc simply won't play on a mix rig

i'll tell you....as soon as every MOFO out there is cutting at 96k

and that's a lot of people already!!!

i'll easily save 6 - 10k on outboard effects boxes by going with HD

the verbs and effects in HD are simply AWESOME
i worked on a mix rig for 3 years.....trust me, i know what they sound like

the HD clock and A/D are WAY better then mix +

i'd have to dump another 1.5k into a good stable clock for a mix rig

i'm not looking to by some alesis reverb here
this mix room WILL be bad ass

i've poored tons of sweat, and cash into the acoustics.....my amek big is getting totally hot rodded.....

if i don't get a PT rig, i'll be getting eventides, a 480L.....stuff that KICKS ASS

if i get the PT rig, i'll be able to do WAY more, recall it, and cater to more clients

in a matter of 4 hours, i've done the research and made up my mind

HD2 accel

it's the best i can do, and it will be the best out there for a while......

G5 dual 2.5g with a 17" plasma display

if i don't get that rig, i won't get anything
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: takeout on June 11, 2004, 04:48:45 pm
j.hall wrote on Fri, 11 June 2004 20:55

...G5 dual 2.5g with a 17" plasma display...

But... how are you going to hear your stereo mix with only one display?


Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: redelephant on June 11, 2004, 05:12:26 pm
Has our fearless leader dropped his 'indie rock' morals for THE MAN?! His mind must have been sound replaced and beat detected into giving into the ways of the DIGI!

In all seriousness, I would take a DIGI rig for free.. but spend $15K on it.. doubtful. The converters don't even sound that good! The plugins are quite nice, but native is improving, and that is all in the hands of the CPU which is drastically changing to accommodate DSP intensive plugs.

PT has a leg up in shear number's. Much like the republican party if you ask me. Spreading its facsist one-sided movement to appeal to its own gain. BUT HEY THATS  BRILLIANT MARKETING!

So J, do you want a $30,000 Procontrol console to go with that HD|2 accel? You know it is the ONLY way to really tap into your new PT rig. SPEND SPEND SPEND. CONFORM CONFORM CONFORM!

Sorry. I am a little out of line here. Its just digidesign, not the NAZI party.
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: bblackwood on June 11, 2004, 05:22:45 pm
redelephant wrote on Fri, 11 June 2004 16:12

Has our fearless leader dropped his 'indie rock' morals for THE MAN?!  

Yes.
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: meverylame on June 11, 2004, 06:15:59 pm
That seems pretty sound.

I know what a pain in the ass it is to have to convert formats. I had this one band bring in a bunch dp3 files to import to PT, which isn't bad compared to dumping to 2", but it took 2 hours off of 6 hour mix session. I decided to be cool and stay for another 2 anyway.
Yeah, the more I think about it from your seat, I thend to agree with the HD choice. I almost always deal with bands with the literally no budget. So almost everything I get is 24/44.1, maybe even 16/44.1, so the sample rate deal just doesn't mean that much to me for where I am currently am in the food chain. Plus it sounds bounds better than mix. Even more, I'm betting you'll be just using like a tape machine for the most part anyway.

So congrads. Let us know when you get it, and what you think of it.







Oh yeah, no one slag the guy for rocking the PT. I rock the PT, and if you want to pay bills you will too. Its only cheating when you cheat on it. End of story.  
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: xonlocust on June 11, 2004, 07:03:30 pm
well, what's going on here is obvious.  j. - it's time to crate up the 2" and ship it up here, it's going into my house now.  Smile

jk

actually, i just got an mbox to have around too - using cubase - man do i hate using a mouse to make music though.  

have a good weekend y'all.
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: drumsound on June 11, 2004, 07:33:42 pm
xonlocust wrote on Fri, 11 June 2004 18:03

well, what's going on here is obvious.  j. - it's time to crate up the 2" and ship it up here, it's going into my house now.  Smile

jk

actually, i just got an mbox to have around too - using cubase - man do i hate using a mouse to make music though.  

have a good weekend y'all.


My 2"  machine is for sale...
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: j.hall on June 12, 2004, 07:40:39 pm
bblackwood wrote on Fri, 11 June 2004 16:22

redelephant wrote on Fri, 11 June 2004 16:12

Has our fearless leader dropped his 'indie rock' morals for THE MAN?!  

Yes.




that reply coming from you...............hahahahahahaha

you have to spend money to make money

and honestly, i think all of you understand that PT dominates the market place....i'm selling a service here, one that is really hard to sell, and even harder when my only format is analog

i'm not in a position to question the client....as i'm pleased as punch i'm being hired to mix a project....i feel i should make it as easy as possible for more people to send stuff

16k for a piece of equipment like this seems like a drop in the bucket considering how much more work i can potentially get from it

and hey, if i don't get any more work then i did, i'll just sell it

nothing ventured, nothing gained

BTW, nick......if you can lift the 3M over your head by yourself....you can have it

Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: Zoesch on June 12, 2004, 10:12:24 pm
This thread is hilarious... Brad will do his best to convince you to go for Samplitude (Which is indeed leagues better sounding than PT) and probably I'd do the same with Nuendo...

However, if you're going for PT, don't go HD yet... and don't go Mix+ yet either... I don't see the appeal of HD for most people, but if you're going to go down that route, please, do not use the Digi I/O... we all know it's crappy sounding overpriced junk, and there's options, specially if you go for Apogee and Prism converters which are actually not that more expensive than the 192 I/O. I'd buy myself one HD core card and a DA16X (Or a Dream ADA-8) if you're looking only at mixing (Or are you looking at tracking as well, in which case change that to accomodate whatever A/D option you want).

If you wait a while, those Mix systems are going to be worth zero and you'll be able to pick one for next to nothing and still be in business (And make money out of the damned thing as opposed to breaking even on the thing) but you know you'll have no support and if people ask you for 88.2/96KHz work... well, you're screwed.
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: bblackwood on June 12, 2004, 10:20:49 pm
To be honest, I've been pounding on j to get a PT rig from day one. In this business you have top conform to standards sometimes. I think it's a smart move.

And as long as you aren't getting a procontrol, HD is great. Master lots of records from HD rigs nowadays and they often sound awesome.

Though I do like Samp...
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: Ross Hogarth on June 13, 2004, 06:46:27 am
J
HD3 accel all the way ..... don't bother with mix+ .... a waste of investment... HD2 might not be powerful enough but you need to check that out for yourself.
the hd plug-ins rule over mix+ ......no matter  what anybody says ...
the new neve/api eq's are cool...the massenburg eq is great ...the MCDSP and UA audio plugs rock ...Impact is like an SSL ... phase mistress is like a great old phaser.....filter freak is insane ....
the delay compensation is worth every penny for us pro tools users
no matter what anybody says .....
What I really do think you should think twice about is the G5.
Only 3 PCI  slots.. and the dual processor 1.25 are super stable.
These have come way down in price and I still like my SCSI card which you can't have in HD3 accel with a G5.
Pro Tools is here. It is my/our format now.
yes it has the market share and I am a professional at what I do. This is not hobby. We need to stay current relevant and in step. If the industry was still in tape and you were in ADAT, you would not be considered a professional. Don't fight it. Just rock it cuz anything you tend to resist tends to persist....
Pro Tools HD accel ...    
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: j.hall on June 14, 2004, 09:28:50 am
the G5 thing is the biggest unknown for me

on one hand the dual 2.5 brand spankin new G5 will last me years.....

it will be a computer i can have and use for a very long time which means a lot in the computer world

then again, it's brand new, apple just rolled it out and they aren't even shipping yet.  how i'm getting one.....don't ask, i know people....muw ha ha ha

anyway
i keep thinking i could save a thousand bucks on the computer and still end up with something really good

ross, are you running OSX?  are you on a G5, or a G4?

i think HD2 will suit my needs, i'll be mixing on my console and using PT minimally, at least at first.

Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: bblackwood on June 14, 2004, 09:41:00 am
It's a no brainer, get the G5. Whether or not the dual 2.5 is what you need is the debatable point. If you can score a good price on a G5, do it now...
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: Fibes on June 14, 2004, 10:24:51 am
bblackwood wrote on Mon, 14 June 2004 09:41

It's a no brainer, get the G5. Whether or not the dual 2.5 is what you need is the debatable point. If you can score a good price on a G5, do it now...


Brad, with all due respect, i've heard of some issues with G-5s and HD/PT systems. The new updates may have fixed it on Apples end but it may not be the most stable scenario at this point. I'm pretty sure that's what Ross was getting at. I'm talking total hard drive crashes, superbad boot issues and a host of other REAL problems, not just bugginess. I think a few more actual users opinions may help out on this front. Having done some research myself, the warning flags were shown to me, yes it's secondhand, but my sources are pretty clear it ain't a total solution right now.

For me, i'm going to go HD2accell and get as much hardcore conversion i can. Unfortunately i track as much as i mix. I'd need a minimum of 16 in and 16-24 outs to start. Any suggestions on a config better than the HD192?
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: bblackwood on June 14, 2004, 10:48:50 am
HAHAHAHA, what due respect?

hehe

I don't use the rigs, but do have several good friends using PTHD/G5 rigs and they have had no problems at all (I asked before recommending it to j)...
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: Ross Hogarth on June 14, 2004, 11:07:26 am
Again, the G5's have issues. Trust me or not ... The Dual 1.25's are rocking solid.BUT not the 1,4's ........
Weird but the guys at digi DO NOT recommend the 1.4
I DO use this and I DO own a rig ...RESPECTFULLY .....
Pro Tools does not take advantage of the G5 processor yet and by that time that it actually does you'll probably be into a G6 or G7 .....
And again, I do like my ability to have the extra slot for whatever especially SCSI.
I am absolutely running OSX 10.3.2 NOT 10.3.4 !!!
DO NOT GO UP TO THE LATEST VERSION OF PANTHER
stay at 10.3.2 for now
there are issues with the last 2 upgrades 10.3.3 and 10.3.4
make sure you get an accel card though, you will not be unhappy you did.
The new software uses more DSP and you will find your self happy you have the xtra horse power under your hood
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: j.hall on June 14, 2004, 11:07:40 am
to clarify from my end

a G4 isn't really my direction

what i was asking ross specifically is if the earlier G5's had more card slots

i've fallen off the apple map and simply don't know about the hardware anymore

i've spoken with MANY users.....i'm not an uneducated buyer here

i've got a direct line to apple, and a friend that works there is telling me to just bite the bullet and buy the dual 2.5

this is a guy that works as an AE and simply has a day gig at apple

i'm not spending all this cash just so i can spend more in a year.....

Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: Ross Hogarth on June 14, 2004, 11:12:52 am
No the G5's, all the G5's have one less slot then the G4.....
If you do not ever use SCSI and don't ever see using it anymore and only use firewire then the G5 is ok ....not yet rocking solid but ok
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: Fibes on June 14, 2004, 11:36:58 am
I'm an old SCSI lover but i'm curious how the new firewire 800 is working for audio. Is it close to the robustness of SCSI whilst editing? I don't do the high track count stuff, 32 is a big project for me as of late thanks to making decisions early, so track count isn't as much of an issue. Lately in DP Firewire 400 or the internal Ide at 7200 has been fine. just curious if the 800 is a bump that gets into SCSIland.
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: j.hall on June 14, 2004, 12:00:42 pm
i've spoken with many G5 PT HD users that are serious power users

i've asked B-rad to contact some of his friends that are in the same boat and using PT HD HEAVILY.....probably more so then my contacts

i haven't heard one bad thing about the G5 yet.

in fact, i'm hearing that it's rock solid.....

and for the price i can get a dual 2.5gig G5, it's silly to not go for it and prepare for the future

i just don't see myself losing work with this rig......and if i keep booking sessions at the rate i am (and i'm not even open for business yet) i'll have little time to interface a new computer let alone eat lunch......

the time is now, i have to get the best i can

and if the mix room fails, i'll be selling a kick ass rig to some one.......

hahahahaha

Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: floodstage on June 14, 2004, 12:37:39 pm
PT/HD?

And you said you were over budget on your room.

WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!

(Had to laugh even though I really do understand why you have decided to do this.)


One piece of advice
(remember, my advice is worth exactly what it cost you)









Better raise your rates!
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: Zoesch on June 14, 2004, 12:58:47 pm
Fibes wrote on Tue, 15 June 2004 01:36

I'm an old SCSI lover but i'm curious how the new firewire 800 is working for audio. Is it close to the robustness of SCSI whilst editing? I don't do the high track count stuff, 32 is a big project for me as of late thanks to making decisions early, so track count isn't as much of an issue. Lately in DP Firewire 400 or the internal Ide at 7200 has been fine. just curious if the 800 is a bump that gets into SCSIland.


Close, but no cigar... my DAW is SCSI-320 (Although my drives are still SCSI-160) and I also have FW800 cards with two attached drives... no comparison, however watch SAS closely (Serially Attached SCSI) as it will be the high throughput standard of the future with the flexibility and no-hassle connectivity of SATA and FW.
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: j.hall on June 14, 2004, 02:41:37 pm
well, i'm hours, if not minutes away from confirming my PT order

and i have no mac yet
hahahahahahaha

anyway, the dealer wanted what i thought to be too much money for drives

my question is this.....

what is the deal with the firewire debate

should i not do firewire drives?

i have a 10k rpm seagate cheatah from back in my old PT days (only 9gig) and it was awesome

is scsi still superior?

i don't think the new G5 will even support scsi

hook me up, as this is now a reality.
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: Fibes on June 14, 2004, 03:23:39 pm
I'm betting that FW-800 will be fine for you as long as your track counts stay below 64. I'd like to hear what the pros/hardcore users have to say. Scsi is great but the older stuff doesn't always act nice around the newer systems.

Zoesch?
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: rvdsm on June 14, 2004, 03:43:59 pm
j.hall wrote on Mon, 14 June 2004 13:41


should i not do firewire drives?


Definitely not, unless you are just using it for archiving. IDE drives work fine. We have 3 200 GB IDE drives in our G4 and are ready to put in one more. Firewire drives take too long to access and transfer data.
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: j.hall on June 14, 2004, 03:46:54 pm
i'll be mixing other people's projects

i assume people will simply send me a drive

should i transfer it to my internal?

or just hook it up and rock?

you have to think about my specific situation.....it's a little unique compared to a standard PT set up and how it functions

Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: rvdsm on June 14, 2004, 03:51:11 pm
j.hall wrote on Mon, 14 June 2004 14:46

i'll be mixing other people's projects

i assume people will simply send me a drive

should i transfer it to my internal?

or just hook it up and rock?

you have to think about my specific situation.....it's a little unique compared to a standard PT set up and how it functions




If it were me I would transfer, just for the sake of redundancy.
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: lord on June 14, 2004, 03:53:38 pm
No playback off firewire drives. It's just asking for trouble. Maybe if you set your buffer size to half an hour.
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: Ross Hogarth on June 14, 2004, 04:47:05 pm
lord wrote on Mon, 14 June 2004 12:53

No playback off firewire drives. It's just asking for trouble. Maybe if you set your buffer size to half an hour.


This why I said go with a 1.25 and still keep your atto scsi .... but then again
the G5 case sure looks sexy .... anyway your choice but I as many others say don't trust firewire whatever you do
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: Fibes on June 14, 2004, 04:51:13 pm
I guess i'm fine if i keep my dual 800 then and the ATTO card for my initial jump to PT.

How about the implementaion of Auto delay compensation? How's that work? Is it straightforward? Track specific? Is it as kickass as advertised?

Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: j.hall on June 14, 2004, 04:57:24 pm
from what i understand

the delay thing is a simple toggle....

it's either turned on and working on every track, or it's not on....and thus doing nothing

fibes, when are you making the switch over?
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: Fibes on June 14, 2004, 05:23:15 pm
j.hall wrote on Mon, 14 June 2004 16:57



fibes, when are you making the switch over?


I've got 11 grand to go, three down... Unless i get a sponsorship. heheheheheheh!

Business is great, but with the little one running around, my priorities are in order: Veda, Audio, Wife...

In a nutshell, it'll be Xmas before i'm flush. my system is working fine now and the Xmas slowdown is always a good time to re-tool.
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: Zoesch on June 14, 2004, 05:39:03 pm
I've been lucky (But then again, I'm not in Mac land so my card drivers exist) that my SCSI rigs have moved without so much a problem, some older drives (Specially, as much as it pains me, some of my older sample libraries) refuse to play with SCSI-160 and upwards... fortunately there's ways around that.

As for Firewire, at the moment I'm using FW drives for backup, I wouldn't dream on recording to them (Then again, I'm on Windows, and Windows and firewire have a weird love/hate relationship).

That's one thing that's bugging me of late, seeing that Digi is all too eager to get the Windows DAW market away from Steinberg and Magix, why not a Winblows PC for your HD rig? So far the reports I've had of PT on windows is that it's as unstable as PT on the Mac (Whatever that meant, not sure if it was an insult or a compliment).

What I do believe, is that if you go for a dual G5, make sure everything else you need is covered, three meagre PCI-X slots are not nearly enough, and expansion chassis are expensive and unreliable.
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: drew on June 15, 2004, 09:41:23 am
especially if you're just mixing off PT scsi is not needed. hell, I've been using FW for years without a hitch. Only time I have any issues is when I'me doing a tranfer and have 32 tracks recording at once and the drives a bit full or fragmented.
drew
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: Fibes on June 18, 2004, 03:06:59 pm
J. has bought the farm. Prepare for the end times.

"Tell all my people, these are the last days!"
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: j.hall on June 18, 2004, 05:02:31 pm
sent the check two days ago

PT HD2 with 2 192 I/O's with an additional D/A card for 8 more outs and a sync I/O for locking to code

mac G5 dual 2.5 gig with a 17" plasma dislplay.....

Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: meverylame on June 18, 2004, 06:23:34 pm
Its kinda funny I just looked my window, and saw the strangest thing. Apparently pigs are now being genetically modified to have wings.

Strange times.


I'm not even going to mention the primates out of my backend. Laughing
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: redelephant on June 19, 2004, 12:22:37 am
j.hall wrote on Fri, 18 June 2004 22:02

sent the check two days ago

PT HD2 with 2 192 I/O's with an additional D/A card for 8 more outs and a sync I/O for locking to code

mac G5 dual 2.5 gig with a 17" plasma dislplay.....




Congrats. Hell if J. Robbins has a PT right why cant you, right?
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: Zoesch on June 19, 2004, 05:02:27 am
Hehehehe... oh well, we lost Kenny and now we lost J.

Next thing he'll be saying analog is dead Very Happy

I just passed on getting a PT rig for another month and invested in more outboard instead... I do that every month Laughing
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: redelephant on June 19, 2004, 02:07:15 pm
Zoesch wrote on Sat, 19 June 2004 10:02


I just passed on getting a PT rig for another month and invested in more outboard instead... I do that every month Laughing


ditto
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: drew on June 19, 2004, 04:04:57 pm
you guys are funny. why not do both?
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: j.hall on June 21, 2004, 12:58:25 pm
if apple doesn't ship this computer (i already have the monitor) i'll be hosed...........

everything is set in motion at this point

the timing (as of now) is working out perfectly, and the whole thing will be completed at the same time, ready for me to move in and wire up in 2 weeks

if that computer doesn't get here.......i'll be installing PT and interfacing it into my room later, and that will suck

i'd rather have stuff all over the place slowly getting assembled into it's permanent home, then trying to interface gear a piece at a time....

oh well

i'm already cursing the PT rig, and i haven't even received it yet.
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: Zoesch on June 21, 2004, 09:23:10 pm
drew wrote on Sun, 20 June 2004 06:04

you guys are funny. why not do both?


Because I already have a system that is sonically superior (To my ears) and fits my workflow perfectly...

We're not discouraging J. Hell he already spent the money and I personally wish him the best.
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: drew on June 22, 2004, 09:34:21 am
If you're a pro, making a living at this, you buy what you need. If that's PT, all the outboard you need, and/or Nuendo/Samplitude, whatever, you do it. That's all I'm saying. If you're a hobbyist then yea, you need to pick your tools more carefully.
drew
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: j.hall on June 22, 2004, 09:40:09 am
i sort of see both sides

drew is totally right, at some point, you have to just go for it.....get all the tools you need, and dive in the deep end

until you do that, you're just playing in niche markets like i was only catering to the 25% (2" 24 track market)

at the end of the day, i can always sell this PT rig and pay myself back a large portion of the money.  what i can't do is say that i tried if i never had bought the thing.

on the other hand.....i just acquired overhead for the first time in my career.  up until now, i've never owed a dime on anything i had.  granted, the PT is technically paid for but i'm treating it as a loan and paying myself a small amount of interest for "book keeping"

either way you look at it, it's a risk....i simply chose the risk that pays out the higher reward....

honestly, i saw this as simply, "the cost of doing business"

Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: Zoesch on June 22, 2004, 09:32:01 pm
drew wrote on Tue, 22 June 2004 23:34

If you're a pro, making a living at this, you buy what you need. If that's PT, all the outboard you need, and/or Nuendo/Samplitude, whatever, you do it. That's all I'm saying. If you're a hobbyist then yea, you need to pick your tools more carefully.
drew


Oh that's fine, I thought you had misinterpreted me as saying that I bought the outboard instead of PT, I bought the outboard because I'm NEVER (Or at least for the forseeable, time-limited approaching infinite future) buying PT Wink

I have zero overheads although I own a trackload of stuff, just by not playing the tracking room and microphone game. That's a god $70K worth of capital expenditure I haven't done... and thankfully I've been able to record everywhere I've wanted to without much fuss.
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: redelephant on June 22, 2004, 11:24:54 pm
Zoesch wrote on Wed, 23 June 2004 02:32

drew wrote on Tue, 22 June 2004 23:34

If you're a pro, making a living at this, you buy what you need. If that's PT, all the outboard you need, and/or Nuendo/Samplitude, whatever, you do it. That's all I'm saying. If you're a hobbyist then yea, you need to pick your tools more carefully.
drew


Oh that's fine, I thought you had misinterpreted me as saying that I bought the outboard instead of PT, I bought the outboard because I'm NEVER (Or at least for the forseeable, time-limited approaching infinite future) buying PT Wink



Just curious, which DAW do you use? Or do you use tape?
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: Zoesch on June 23, 2004, 12:44:43 am
I'm a Nuendo user (Would that make me a NoUndah? NoEntiendo? Nintendo?  Laughing ) and I'm more than happy with it!
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: Ross Hogarth on June 25, 2004, 09:33:51 am
It's funny how we either justify what we do and are doing or have to defend it.

Pro tools schmoo tools, nuendo pooendo , analog schmnanlog
whatever........

Either you are working and happy with yourself and your setup or you are not working, on the fringe and need an in to the game.

I believe there really is very little to differentiate all the formats in the end except with the user himself and his clientele.
I happen to work equally in my studio and the outside world. The outside world now being primarily a Pro Tools environment. This dictates for me, to be inside Pro Tools at home so when I leave my door, I am compatible with my outside world. End of Story.....no more, no less ..... for today that is ....
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: j.hall on June 25, 2004, 09:52:02 am
that's why i bought it......
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: Zoesch on June 27, 2004, 06:23:31 am
Well, I am compatible with the outside world through BWF and OMF (And AES3.1 but few people do it these days outside of post houses)... so I don't worry about it either.

A DAW is a tool, you pick the one that does the job the way you like and move on, but... OTOH you also need a dose of good humor around it, keeps us human and real Wink
Title: Re: help j.hall with PT.....
Post by: judah on July 12, 2004, 09:14:09 am
lord wrote on Mon, 14 June 2004 21:53

No playback off firewire drives. It's just asking for trouble. Maybe if you set your buffer size to half an hour.


what sorry? I'm mixing right now a project in DP4.0. LaCie 80Gb FW external drive. 56 tracks per song. Lots of plugins. No problem at all. BTW, my machine is a G4/400 running 9.2.2.
My 2 eurocents.

R.