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R/E/P => R/E/P Archives => Acoustics in Motion => Topic started by: franman on December 08, 2006, 11:35:28 pm

Title: Monitors???
Post by: franman on December 08, 2006, 11:35:28 pm
Okay... a number of posts have discussed personal monitor preferences, and the people (that means me really) want to know:  what speakers do you listen to everyday?? what's your favorite.. limit response to one (or two max) monitor model(s).. Thanks!!
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: franman on December 08, 2006, 11:39:47 pm
I'll go first:

Griffin G2A (5.1 system) and Griffin G1.5 3-way.. Both active with Griffin ICEpower amplification.. we use analog crossover/controller in our G2A 250Wx2 amplifier package and London DSP processor for our 1000W 250+250+500W Amplifier package on the G1.5. Check em out on our website (link below)... (yeah, it's a shameless plug!! WHAT CAN I SAY!)  Twisted Evil
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: jfrigo on December 08, 2006, 11:53:05 pm
franman wrote on Fri, 08 December 2006 23:35

Okay... a number of posts have discussed personal monitor preferences, and the people (that means me really) want to know:  what speakers do you listen to everyday?? what's your favorite.. limit response to one (or two max) monitor model(s).. Thanks!!


Big fan of Quested. That's what I listen to every day. If I had extra cash, the one I'd probably move to would be ATC.

From these examples, you can probably tell that I like mid domes. There are others I like, but to limit my response, I'll leave it at that.
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: Riccardo on December 09, 2006, 10:34:29 am
I like mid domes too, fan of PMC and ATC  Smile  
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: funkcity on December 11, 2006, 01:13:01 am
Just recently I discovered the Klein and Hummel O 300D.
A very clean/neutral-sounding 3way active speaker with a very tight-sounding bass. Just the way I like it.
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: Etch-A-Sketch on December 11, 2006, 04:03:07 pm
The speakers I listen to most days are not my favorite.  So I'll list both.

Everyday:
Sofit mounted custom built montiors using 12" Tad woofer, 7" Focal midrange and 1" Dynaudio Tweeter, through Rane crossover, into Bryston amps.  They sound good but because of the room and acoustic problems they aren't my favorite.

My Favorite:
KRK E8t so far.  I really like the way they sound and every mix I do on them translates to other systems remarkably well.

Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: dirkb on December 13, 2006, 02:20:02 pm
Adam S3a's

Greetings,
DIrk
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: jetbase on December 17, 2006, 08:07:52 pm
My favourites are ATC's, the SCM20A's (or passives with a good amp). The 50's are great, but the room has to be too. The 20's are a bit more versatile in that respect.

I actually use Philips 534MFB's (motional feedback - does anybody remember them?). They don't sound worlds apart from the sound of ATC, which is why I like them, but the midrange is a bit on the soft side. If I had to replace them I would choose the ATC SCM50A's, but I can't afford that... so I hope I don't have to replace them.

Cheers,
Glenn
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: bblackwood on December 21, 2006, 02:44:14 pm
B&W Nautilus 802s (with Velodyne DD12 subs).

Love the sound, very revealing and unflattering, imo.
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: crna59 on December 25, 2006, 07:37:05 pm
Wilson Audio Specialties WATT/Puppy 8 System with complete WATCH Surround.
They're perfect for my room. I also like Von Schweikert VR-9 and Avalon Sentinel speakers.

Regards,
Bruce
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: el duderino on December 27, 2006, 11:54:39 am
I use Dynaudio BM5A's. They get the job done, tho not my favorite. wish i had the dough for S3A's.

Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: maikol on December 28, 2006, 05:44:11 pm
Hi everyone,

In the studio I use ProAc studio 100s with two little REL Quake subs (soooo cute!). Those speakers have changed my life! Highly highly recommended for mixing...(now that was a revolutionnary advice!  Rolling Eyes ). I do the alignment and crossover with a Tact Audio RCS 2.2.

For the pleasure i'd bring my Apertura Tanagra pair with me on a desert island (not so easy though!). Apertura is the side project of Goldmund's speaker designer, Christian Yvon. Handmade, strange design ideas (he uses Bulpack as one of the internal dampers!!!), surprisingly natural and musical sounding, and errr... less expensive!

Maikol
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: -phile- on January 10, 2007, 03:29:36 pm
Dynaudio BM15A. Totally love them.
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: Gravity 8058 on January 28, 2007, 03:08:19 pm
For Recording/Mixing:  Barefoot MM27s

For Mastering:  B&W N805's w/ REL B-3 Sub
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: Oldfart on January 29, 2007, 12:59:27 pm
Gravity 8058 wrote on Sun, 28 January 2007 15:08

For Recording/Mixing:  Barefoot MM27s

For Mastering:  B&W N805's w/ REL B-3 Sub



I'm curious, why not mastering with the MM27?

You wouldn't recommand them for mastering?

Oldfart
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: franman on February 04, 2007, 01:21:56 pm
Wow, it's quite interesing..;
1. None of you have listed 1031A as your primary monitor.
2. We see these in ALMOST EVERY STUDIO we go to.....
3. No one has listed KRK V8's either...
4. Damn, I hate those speakers..

If I've offended anyone than ... oh well (as Fletcher would say!).... Just some observations, that's all. Twisted Evil
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: jfrigo on February 04, 2007, 01:55:06 pm
franman wrote on Sun, 04 February 2007 13:21

Wow, it's quite interesing..;
1. None of you have listed 1031A as your primary monitor.
2. We see these in ALMOST EVERY STUDIO we go to.....
3. No one has listed KRK V8's either...
4. Damn, I hate those speakers..


It's funny; we have both of those models out in the machine room, available for visiting engineers to the mix room. I'd rather mix on the Boxer T5 mains honestly. Get me some Quested or ATC close fields, or perhaps ProAc or certain Dynadudio, and then OK. But Genelec just does not translate. They sound OK for casual listening I guess, but they're not very useful for work, and don't translate well at all. KRK V8 gives me a similar feeling. But people recognize them.
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: neustation on February 05, 2007, 02:25:18 am
Hello,

I use some monitors that I DIY'd.
They are 24L bass reflex cabinets tuned to 53Hz. I used marine grade baltic birch 18mm.
I used Fostex FE167E full range driver with FT17H super tweeter.
I always thought that full range drivers were sucky things that came in shitty car stereos. These really changed my mind about full range drivers.

I made these as an experiment, they exceeded my expectations.

I was looking for something with good midrange,some of the commercial monitors (mackie, genelec, krk) that I have heard seem to lack midrange. The Fostex FE167E have really great mids. I did BSC network (if you don't the high freq will take your head off) and the super tweeter is crossed 1st order at about 15k.

Also the they are high efficiency drivers at around 92db/W after BSC network, so they get pretty loud with a 5 watt class D amp(I use the tripath chip amps).

Out Here,

Robert  
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: Consul on February 05, 2007, 11:47:51 pm
Just for kicks I decided to pop those parameters with that driver into WinISD, and it gave a pretty favorable curve. Of course, WinISD is hardly the be-all-end-all of speaker design software, but for its price (free) it's better than nothing.

I have yet to pick monitors for myself, so I shouldn't be posting in this thread, but I remain cognizant of the DIY approach. Thanks for posting that.
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: organica on March 01, 2007, 07:12:33 pm
franman wrote on Sun, 04 February 2007 13:21

Wow, it's quite interesing..;
1. None of you have listed 1031A as your primary monitor.
2. We see these in ALMOST EVERY STUDIO we go to.....
3. No one has listed KRK V8's either...
4. Damn, I hate those speakers..

If I've offended anyone than ... oh well (as Fletcher would say!).... Just some observations, that's all. Twisted Evil

Francis

do you hate the 1031A's ?
if so could/would you please elaborate a little ?

no offence taken here btw .
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: franman on March 01, 2007, 10:31:39 pm
No I don't really hate any of these speakers.. They are not my favorite... but since I am now a partner in a speaker manufacturing company it only stands to reason that I like our Griffin Speakers the best, right??

Gene's are just ubiquitous.. They are the NS10 of the 2000's... I think they are well made speakers, sound good up to moderate volumes and they are "A Standard!"...

The KRK's have never been my cup of tea.. but we see a lot of big time mixers using them (even in studios with our wonderful G1 main monitors!! how sacriligeous!)...

I think speakers are just tools... like a mic, or a console. You can make great records with tools that you are comfortable with and have experience with. That's what it all comes down to.

OF COURSE, having an accurate room is an important tool... probably more important than the mics and consoles... IMHO...
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: j.hall on March 06, 2007, 12:30:13 pm
quested H108's with a nelson pass designed Adcom amp (it makes a huge difference what amp drives these speakers) and my velodyne sub.

i haven't head much else in the mix realm that i like very much.
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: el duderino on March 09, 2007, 03:46:19 pm
Since 1031A's are/were so common, are many people getting the 8050's these days since the 1031A's are discontinued?

Are they very different?

One of the studio's I use has ns-10's and 1031A's and I'm always happy with how things sound from there. I know 1031A's are availabe used, but I just have a hard time trusting where a used monitor is coming from.  
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: Tomas Danko on March 10, 2007, 05:26:15 am
el duderino wrote on Fri, 09 March 2007 20:46

Since 1031A's are/were so common, are many people getting the 8050's these days since the 1031A's are discontinued?

Are they very different?

One of the studio's I use has ns-10's and 1031A's and I'm always happy with how things sound from there. I know 1031A's are availabe used, but I just have a hard time trusting where a used monitor is coming from.  


I think the new 80x0 series are a big improvement over the old 1031A's. But they still sound as if someone put an exciter and limiter in the treble. Masking high frequency detail and making everything sound hyped and "produced" to some extent.

YMMV of course, especially regarding monitors.
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: el duderino on March 12, 2007, 12:43:42 pm
Tomas Danko wrote on Sat, 10 March 2007 05:26

el duderino wrote on Fri, 09 March 2007 20:46

Since 1031A's are/were so common, are many people getting the 8050's these days since the 1031A's are discontinued?

Are they very different?

One of the studio's I use has ns-10's and 1031A's and I'm always happy with how things sound from there. I know 1031A's are availabe used, but I just have a hard time trusting where a used monitor is coming from.  


I think the new 80x0 series are a big improvement over the old 1031A's. But they still sound as if someone put an exciter and limiter in the treble. Masking high frequency detail and making everything sound hyped and "produced" to some extent.

YMMV of course, especially regarding monitors.


I've heard what you're saying about the high's plenty. Monitors are definitely a preference thing. With that in mind tho, all i've heard about the 80xx series is what you said but it always comes from people who dont really like them. Dont get me wrong, I still value your opinion. I'd just like to get the opinion of someone who used 1031A's for a while and switched to the new ones.

I don't know what it is about them, (maybe its when coupled with NS-10's because they're so heavy on the mids) but using the two has yielded me pretty good results. I heard the S3A's and i thought they sounded great but after talking to a friend (who always used 1031's and ns-10s) he said he has a problem of adding too much highend to his mixes. I know im not him and its a different room and so on, but still interesting to know, for me anyway.
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: Tomas Danko on March 12, 2007, 04:50:10 pm
el duderino wrote on Mon, 12 March 2007 16:43

Tomas Danko wrote on Sat, 10 March 2007 05:26

el duderino wrote on Fri, 09 March 2007 20:46

Since 1031A's are/were so common, are many people getting the 8050's these days since the 1031A's are discontinued?

Are they very different?

One of the studio's I use has ns-10's and 1031A's and I'm always happy with how things sound from there. I know 1031A's are availabe used, but I just have a hard time trusting where a used monitor is coming from.  


I think the new 80x0 series are a big improvement over the old 1031A's. But they still sound as if someone put an exciter and limiter in the treble. Masking high frequency detail and making everything sound hyped and "produced" to some extent.

YMMV of course, especially regarding monitors.


I've heard what you're saying about the high's plenty. Monitors are definitely a preference thing. With that in mind tho, all i've heard about the 80xx series is what you said but it always comes from people who dont really like them. Dont get me wrong, I still value your opinion. I'd just like to get the opinion of someone who used 1031A's for a while and switched to the new ones.

I don't know what it is about them, (maybe its when coupled with NS-10's because they're so heavy on the mids) but using the two has yielded me pretty good results. I heard the S3A's and i thought they sounded great but after talking to a friend (who always used 1031's and ns-10s) he said he has a problem of adding too much highend to his mixes. I know im not him and its a different room and so on, but still interesting to know, for me anyway.


Yes, just like you say monitors are extremely personal so in the end one should always listen and pick what you like the best.

I have used 1031A's a lot throughout the years. I never really liked them, because I felt they masked some high end transient information and I could never balance a mix that translated well elsewhere. When the 80x0's came out I thought they sounded much better, and the 8040's were on my short list when I auditioned monitors a few months ago.

I ended up with S3A's, and even though my room sucks I have no problem at all with adding too much treble or low end. I'm very happy with my choice.
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: el duderino on March 12, 2007, 05:53:01 pm
Tomas Danko wrote on Mon, 12 March 2007 16:50

el duderino wrote on Mon, 12 March 2007 16:43

Tomas Danko wrote on Sat, 10 March 2007 05:26

el duderino wrote on Fri, 09 March 2007 20:46

Since 1031A's are/were so common, are many people getting the 8050's these days since the 1031A's are discontinued?

Are they very different?

One of the studio's I use has ns-10's and 1031A's and I'm always happy with how things sound from there. I know 1031A's are availabe used, but I just have a hard time trusting where a used monitor is coming from.  


I think the new 80x0 series are a big improvement over the old 1031A's. But they still sound as if someone put an exciter and limiter in the treble. Masking high frequency detail and making everything sound hyped and "produced" to some extent.

YMMV of course, especially regarding monitors.


I've heard what you're saying about the high's plenty. Monitors are definitely a preference thing. With that in mind tho, all i've heard about the 80xx series is what you said but it always comes from people who dont really like them. Dont get me wrong, I still value your opinion. I'd just like to get the opinion of someone who used 1031A's for a while and switched to the new ones.

I don't know what it is about them, (maybe its when coupled with NS-10's because they're so heavy on the mids) but using the two has yielded me pretty good results. I heard the S3A's and i thought they sounded great but after talking to a friend (who always used 1031's and ns-10s) he said he has a problem of adding too much highend to his mixes. I know im not him and its a different room and so on, but still interesting to know, for me anyway.


Yes, just like you say monitors are extremely personal so in the end one should always listen and pick what you like the best.

I have used 1031A's a lot throughout the years. I never really liked them, because I felt they masked some high end transient information and I could never balance a mix that translated well elsewhere. When the 80x0's came out I thought they sounded much better, and the 8040's were on my short list when I auditioned monitors a few months ago.

I ended up with S3A's, and even though my room sucks I have no problem at all with adding too much treble or low end. I'm very happy with my choice.



thanks, good to know!
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: compasspnt on March 12, 2007, 11:59:08 pm
I bought 1031's in '92, and often still use the same pair.  I actually like them, for the most part.  At least I know how this one pair translates.  A couple of years later, I got 1032's and they are also still in use.

However, about 2001, an artist who worked here a lot liked my 31's, and wanted a pair, so we ordered that artist some from the same dealer I got mine.

Things had "changed" inside.  The amplifier was different, for sure.

I never liked this newer pair very much, and they have already gone back for repair three times.

Someone else also came in to mix this very artist, and brought 8050's with him.

I tried to use them, and they really threw me off. I just couldn't stand the 8050's.

But that other engineer was able to use them successfully.

Perhaps different, but that's my Genelec story.
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: franman on March 17, 2007, 03:29:43 pm
quite a few clients whom we have worked with, have found that after using 1031's and then trying 1032's they really don't want to go back to the 1031's... I don't know, I always felt the 1032 sounded a little warmer, and more musical... more headroom for sure. .. interesting about the 'evolution' of the 1031 that you've noticed though..? Hmmmm Rolling Eyes
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: mcolbert on March 20, 2007, 05:18:26 am
dynaudio bm6a's for mixing
dynaudio bm15a's for tracking....
i will never attempt to master a record, so i will not comment on mastering speakers...
BUT brad blackwood's B&W's sound amazing.....and they look like space ships, which is a plus in my book.
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: Barkley McKay on March 20, 2007, 07:27:05 am
I monitor with the Genelec 1030's.
I know what some posters say about the top end. These are bright monitors but I have gotten used to them. I find it best sometimes to steer toward a slightly brighter top than I'd like as it seems to transalate.
I'm sticking with them as I cannot afford anything else right now, especially as a total house rewire has come in at around
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: andsonic on April 18, 2007, 05:59:46 pm
I'm a Tannoy guy myself.  I just heard the Tannoy Eyris DC1. Thier "consumer" speaker.  Absolutely lovely sounding.  Very natural sounding & revealing of details in the mix. I think they might be the same as the Precisions with nicer wood.
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: Etch-A-Sketch on April 27, 2007, 08:16:21 pm
franman wrote on Thu, 01 March 2007 19:31


The KRK's have never been my cup of tea.. but we see a lot of big time mixers using them (even in studios with our wonderful G1 main monitors!! how sacriligeous!)...



which KRK's?  I've seen a lot of guys using the E8 series.  The V series is kind of crap (to my ears anyway).  The E series is a TOTALLY different animal.  We have two pairs here and we love them.


Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: Yannick Willox on June 14, 2007, 08:39:17 am
These (out of production), we have six of them:
http://www.link-audio.be/Linkenglish/K50.htm

and these (the replacement):
http://www.link-audio.be/Linkenglish/k1002eng.htm

They make me wonder what all big manufacturers are doing in there spare time ?
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: lofi on July 08, 2007, 08:28:12 am
Quote:

They make me wonder what all big manufacturers are doing in there spare time ?


huh ? what does that mean ???

Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: innesireinar on July 09, 2007, 08:00:05 pm
Has anyone out there never heard Lipinski 707 ?
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: brett on July 14, 2007, 05:47:21 pm
innesireinar wrote on Tue, 10 July 2007 01:00

Has anyone out there never heard Lipinski 707 ?


Bob Katz is a supporter of them for mastering applications. But they must be used with a subwoofer or pair of subs.
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: C.Cash on September 05, 2007, 02:54:05 pm
KRK V4s, all I could afford at the time.Ive gotten used to them and they are very reliable. I'm leaning towards Events, dont know which one though?
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: compasspnt on October 20, 2007, 10:23:27 pm
NATAS wrote on Wed, 05 September 2007 14:54

I'm leaning towards Events, dont know which one though?


Definitely the Studio Precision series.

The 8's if your room is big enough, and you monitor somewhat loudly; the 6's if the room is slightly smaller and you listen relatively "un-loudly."
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: C.Cash on October 21, 2007, 03:36:04 pm
Would you recomend the Events over the new Genelecs?
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: compasspnt on November 05, 2007, 08:40:13 am
NATAS wrote on Sun, 21 October 2007 15:36

Would you recomend the Events over the new Genelecs?


In my personal preference only, I like the new Event Studio Precision series better tha  the new Genelec 80xx series.

I still prefer overall the original issue Genelec 103x slightly for critical mix decisions, but prefer the Event SP's for louder "tracking/overdubbing" monitors.
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: jensenmann on March 23, 2008, 08:27:55 am
My everyday favourites are Tannoy FSM.
I never understood what?s the hype around all those small monitors because I always find them to sound small... or boomy when the designer tried to let it sound bigger than it is.
But then I use NS10, too, very seldom though - maybe two or three times per mix to crosscheck balance. The rest is done on the Tannoys.
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: eightyeightkeys on October 25, 2008, 08:40:00 pm
B&W Matrix 802 Series 3's with a big beefy QSC Reference amplifier.

All of a sudden, it was as if someone pulled a bunch of cotton out of my ears.
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: Thomas Jouanjean on October 26, 2008, 04:04:48 am
Focal SM-8 user here. Best nearfields I ever used so far. In recent years, I had the Adam S3A, Tannoy Ellipse 8 IDP.

The Focal are just in another league. Whish they built mains too...

ATC 200 and 300 are my favorite mains, thought I'm getting something rather exotic in my new CR. I'll post in due time about it Smile

Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: Adam The Truck Driver on January 27, 2009, 11:27:46 am
brett wrote on Sat, 14 July 2007 16:47

innesireinar wrote on Tue, 10 July 2007 01:00

Has anyone out there never heard Lipinski 707 ?


Bob Katz is a supporter of them for mastering applications. But they must be used with a subwoofer or pair of subs.


Why?
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: franman on January 27, 2009, 12:17:25 pm
Adam The Truck Driver wrote on Tue, 27 January 2009 11:27

brett wrote on Sat, 14 July 2007 16:47

innesireinar wrote on Tue, 10 July 2007 01:00

Has anyone out there never heard Lipinski 707 ?


Bob Katz is a supporter of them for mastering applications. But they must be used with a subwoofer or pair of subs.


Why?



... because they aren't full range monitors (without the subs)
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: Adam The Truck Driver on January 29, 2009, 11:20:19 am
I figured as much. The 707s don't go down below 50 hertz like most every other quality near/mid field monitor? I thought external subs were mainly just for main monitor playback for clients if one didn't want or couldn't have larger monitors in their room that have design built in subwoofers, but I could eaily be wrong.

Thanks
AB
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: Bruno Gouveia on February 01, 2009, 10:54:20 am
The L-707 are very good speakers that pretty much follow the rules of how a speaker should be built expect that they have passive crossovers and that's not the best way to do a crossover! The only speaker I know of which thoroughly follows the principles is the Legend loudspeakers series from Celtic Audio
htttp://celticaudio.co.uk
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: Adam The Truck Driver on February 03, 2009, 08:23:58 am
I'm going to try out the Focal for starters as my near-field monitors. Not the SM series however. I haven't got than much coin to willingly part with for my first pair of real monitor speakers as I am choosing to sink big funds into a analog board and converters. I will go with the CMS series. I'm also thinking something along the lines of Harbeth, or Paradign passives to try, not just in the control room, but the reverb chamber, and hall too. Then again I might put in-walls in those spaces...several... of which I can select any 1 or 2 of for my desired reverb or delay effect. I'd probably try the Klipsch in-walls if I go that route. Some may think what speaker is used in a reverb chamber doesn't matter. They could be wrong. I could be wrong. I want to put a Manley Snapper on it too. That is all just my plan as of now. Practicality may differ my plan...time will tell.

Thanks to the wise for any help now or later
AB
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: mixwell on February 03, 2009, 01:21:27 pm
Adam The Truck Driver wrote on Tue, 03 February 2009 07:23

I'm going to try out the Focal for starters as my near-field monitors. Not the SM series however. I haven't got than much coin to willingly part with for my first pair of real monitor speakers as I am choosing to sink big funds into a analog board and converters. I will go with the CMS series. I'm also thinking something along the lines of Harbeth, or Paradign passives to try, not just in the control room, but the reverb chamber, and hall too. Then again I might put in-walls in those spaces...several... of which I can select any 1 or 2 of for my desired reverb or delay effect. I'd probably try the Klipsch in-walls if I go that route. Some may think what speaker is used in a reverb chamber doesn't matter. They could be wrong. I could be wrong. I want to put a Manley Snapper on it too. That is all just my plan as of now. Practicality may differ my plan...time will tell.

Thanks to the wise for any help now or later
AB


The Focal CMS series is great!! They're really true to my ear. You can certainly get some work done with them, no question about it.

Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: B.Mel on February 06, 2009, 10:02:12 am
I'm about 3 years late for this post topic, but here goes in order of near-mid-mains:

NS10T. They are the original home version NS10 that made the famed studio M series even a standard.

Genelec S30. Let's face it people, it has a three-way active crossover network with ribbon tweeters.  The LF driver is paper cone with a foam surround which, is way more musical than what 1031's LF are made from (polypropylene not really sure).

System 12 Gold Ltd. I know this sounds like a cop out for mains, but for the size and fidelity of these dual concentric drivers they really cannot be matched. They also have a paper cone. If I had to choose a regular client pleaser with an engineer's detail in mind it would have to be the Dynaudio Munro M4+ system with Chord amps.
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: Bruno Gouveia on February 06, 2009, 03:38:35 pm
franman wrote on Sat, 09 December 2006 04:39

I'll go first:

Griffin G2A (5.1 system) and Griffin G1.5 3-way.. Both active with Griffin ICEpower amplification.. we use analog crossover/controller in our G2A 250Wx2 amplifier package and London DSP processor for our 1000W 250+250+500W Amplifier package on the G1.5. Check em out on our website (link below)... (yeah, it's a shameless plug!! WHAT CAN I SAY!)  Twisted Evil


I've followed your links and found you're a loudspeaker designer: I'll always wanted to ask this to a loudspeaker designer, it might be an inconvenient question but here it goes: Why do you use bass reflex or transmission line or any other resonant technique to extend bass response in your designs?
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: franman on February 06, 2009, 06:07:04 pm
Bruno,

Let me refer the post to my partner, Lars Tofastrud, who is the "speaker designer".. I'm just the sales weeney in Griffin Audio and I know what I like when it comes to sound. He's the expert in the design and technology that we use. I'll get him to come to this thread and post a reply about bass reflex for you... I know he has his reasons, as he always does... question back at you though>>> Why not?? If it's a better system? Do you feel the sealed box is the only true way to go??

FM
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: Bruno Gouveia on February 06, 2009, 07:21:25 pm
franman wrote on Fri, 06 February 2009 23:07

Bruno,
Do you feel the sealed box is the only true way to go??




Well, yes!  Very Happy If the purpose is to reproduce the input waveform as faithfully as possible in theory is the way to go! Why should one have bass through a resonance mechanism if it's possible to have the real thing? And of course I can tell that the best bass I've heard was through a sealed box and it played very loud as well, but I also can tell I've heard bass reflex speakers with excellent bass but I still can't understand why it's so rare to find sealed box loudspeakers!
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: franman on February 06, 2009, 07:33:51 pm
Once again.. Lars really needs to reply, but it is my understanding that the efficiency issue is the main reason..

and what makes a paper cone 'the real thing'.. isn't a resonator a lot more organic (LOL).... Cool

Lars!! you help here please!!!
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: andrebrito on February 06, 2009, 08:28:08 pm
Bass reflex adds an extra ressonance (lower) to the system, it is just a way to get extra low power for heavy metal music or dance in small speakers hahaha !
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: Adam The Truck Driver on February 08, 2009, 02:02:29 pm
And isn't a reflex design only used on a certain spec woofer and sealed design for a certain spec woofer. Reflex design can make a smaller encloser with a smaller driver sound bigger than it is?

I've known now for some time in other relms of woofage there are designs of drivers that only need only enough sealed space for the driver to fit in that go way down low, and sound smooth while retaining definition and hit you like a sledge hammer to the chest.
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: Bruno Gouveia on February 08, 2009, 03:53:35 pm
Adam The Truck Driver wrote on Sun, 08 February 2009 19:02

And isn't a reflex design only used on a certain spec woofer and sealed design for a certain spec woofer. Reflex design can make a smaller encloser with a smaller driver sound bigger than it is?

I've known now for some time in other relms of woofage there are designs of drivers that only need only enough sealed space for the driver to fit in that go way down low, and sound smooth while retaining definition and hit you like a sledge hammer to the chest.


Yes, I think in closed box woofers it's necessary to guarantee that the dominant spring of the system is the mechanical not the acoustic suspension that the air tight in a box will do. In this situation the mechanical suspension is much more linear than the acoustic suspension, so this is one of the aspects to consider. This is probably due to the difference of pressure inside the box and outside. We need compliant drivers in closed boxes!
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: L_Tofastrud on February 10, 2009, 10:02:58 am
Unfortunately there is no simple (and short) answer to the question.. I ended up making a PDF document with some graphs but as this is not an allowed file type i called it jpeg and hopefully it will be ok to download the document and rename it from jpeg to PDF file extension.
Let me know if you can't get it to work and i'll try to post it directly.

Regards
Lars T
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: Thomas Jouanjean on February 10, 2009, 10:21:22 am
L_Tofastrud wrote on Tue, 10 February 2009 09:02

Unfortunately there is no simple (and short) answer to the question.. I ended up making a PDF document with some graphs but as this is not an allowed file type i called it jpeg and hopefully it will be ok to download the document and rename it from jpeg to PDF file extension.
Let me know if you can't get it to work and i'll try to post it directly.

Regards
Lars T


Excellent article lars - thanks!
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: L_Tofastrud on February 10, 2009, 10:33:08 am
Thanks - and it's good to hear it worked with the download and renaming the file!

Lars T
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: Bruno Gouveia on February 10, 2009, 11:14:29 am
I managed to open the file, and yes I understand your point. But let me add this article to the discussion http://www.resolutionmag.com/pdfs/DRAGONS/GETBAS%7E1.PDF

I think even though in closed box the reproduction of bass isn't as efficient it will be more accurate as it won't add a ressonance to the input waveform.
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: Thomas Jouanjean on February 10, 2009, 11:35:22 am
Bruno Gouveia wrote on Tue, 10 February 2009 10:14

url]http://www.resolutionmag.com/pdfs/DRAGONS/GETBAS%7E1.PDF[/url]


Just my .02
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: Bruno Gouveia on February 10, 2009, 12:04:51 pm
I believe it's the low frequency in the transients that's important and that we can hear from where it's coming from, not sine/periodic waves. One can say our ability to hear the directionality of low frequency in transients it's part of the human evolutionary process, for instance if there's low frequency in the transient it tell us it's a big object / animal / danger and as we're able to know from where it's coming we can protect ourselves better. We're also more sensible to reflections from the sides and above which helps us to locate a source than from the ground, probably for the reason that normaly danger doesn't lurk from there. That's the reason why, according to Phil Newell, reflections from the big mixing board aren't so problematic as they can seem to be.
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: L_Tofastrud on February 11, 2009, 06:10:16 pm
Bruno Gouveia wrote on Tue, 10 February 2009 09:14

http://www.resolutionmag.com/pdfs/DRAGONS/GETBAS%7E1.PDF
I think even though in closed box the reproduction of bass isn't as efficient it will be more accurate as it won't add a ressonance to the input waveform.


The author of the article mentions linear phase - this requires DSP processing with a FIR filter and if you want it to be phase linear from 20 Hz it will mean a latency in your signal of over 200 ms. In a pro-audio situation this is simply not an option. Electronic circuitry and electro-acoustic devices are pretty much always minimum phase.

Personally I think the importance of phase response in low-frequency systems is overrated – I don’t mean to say it’s not real, just that in the real world there are many things that influences our perception of sound. In our speakers we deal with it in crossovers through making sure the acoustic response of each driver conforms to theory and through careful design of the port/resonant system.

In hi-fi there are so many weird explanations related to phase and it can really get crazy when you hear people explain why 6dB/oct filters are “perfect” -unless it is actually done well, like in Dunlavy's.

I will recommend "the loudspeaker cookbook", "the master handbook of acoustics" and "Handbook for Sound Engineers: The New Audio Cyclopedia" by Glen M. Ballou - these books contain a lot of the most important research on electro acoustics as well as psycho-acoustics.

I'm actually not going to say what system is more accurate - it depends on too many things. If both systems are well designed they can both sound excellent, but yes, at least in theory closed box has the upper hand when it comes to group delay and the reproduction of impulses.

Lars T
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: Thomas Jouanjean on February 20, 2009, 02:30:04 am
Just received those for the new Northward show-room / studios.
Those are from our partner ATC Loudpeakers. They are custom built and modified ATC 300 ASL. Among other things, they're a little bigger than normal 300s, and have a slanted front to follow the front wall shape of our new CR, but still allowing the speakers to sit properly in the specific decoupled housings we designed for the mains.

Can't wait to have them up and running...
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: Bruno Gouveia on February 20, 2009, 03:33:37 pm
I don't want to be the bad guy but I see a dome tweeter. Is the break up mode high enough?
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: Thomas Jouanjean on February 20, 2009, 04:03:03 pm
Bruno Gouveia wrote on Fri, 20 February 2009 14:33

I don't want to be the bad guy but I see a dome tweeter. Is the break up mode high enough?



You're not the bad guy Smile

Yes, they are fitted with the ATC dome tweeter and dome mid drivers. Be warned that while I love to test and experience with speakers, speaker design is not my area of predilection in acoustics (can't know it all...)

What's your opinion on domes, I feel they're not your favorites?

Here's more info about the system:

http://www.atc.gb.net/downloads/PRO_P18-19.pdf
http://www.atc.gb.net/professional.htm

I really like ATC, to me they are absolutely great, so being partner with them is a wonderful experience. But I know that from a certain point in quality, speaker choice becomes very much a question of taste too.
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: Bruno Gouveia on February 21, 2009, 02:15:11 pm
Well, according to theory a typical dome driver will break up at audibles frequencies and produce a radiation pattern that will not be anything like the nice pattern of a pistonic driver.  

I have a nice pair of speakers that have a dome tweeter but it's made of a very rigid material so the break up mode is about 20kHz, so not a problem.

I've a strange relation with speakers. The question is I've studied a bit about speakers construction and could understand what principles make more sense. And virtually all the commercially available  speakers I know of don't follow all this principles. In fact there's a book High Performance Loudspeakers, by Martin Colloms, which is pretty good and explains a lot about the principles and has a direction of how an high performance loudspeaker should be. What is strange is that this author is an audiophile critic, but anyhow his reference is still a pair of LS3/5A (they also have a dome tweeter)...!
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: Thomas Jouanjean on February 21, 2009, 08:46:39 pm
Thanks, I'll look for that book.
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: jfrigo on February 24, 2009, 02:46:43 am
Thomas Jouanjean wrote on Fri, 20 February 2009 02:30

Just received those for the new Northward show-room / studios.
Those are from our partner ATC Loudpeakers. They are custom built and modified ATC 300 ASL. Among other things, they're a little bigger than normal 300s, and have a slanted front to follow the front wall shape of our new CR, but still allowing the speakers to sit properly in the specific decoupled housings we designed for the mains.

Can't wait to have them up and running...


Beauty. Got any extras in the back of the truck for me?

Laughing

And BTW, the ATC mid dome is a thing to behold.

Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: Thomas Jouanjean on February 24, 2009, 03:32:39 am
jfrigo wrote on Tue, 24 February 2009 01:46


Beauty. Got any extras in the back of the truck for me?


You will receive a phone call.

Then follow the white rabbit.

Come alone.

If I have any suspicion you're being followed, the deal is off.

Come with the cash, used bills of 20 and 50 in a transparent bag.

It's a good thing if you speak russian, too.
Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: franman on February 24, 2009, 11:50:45 pm
I can absolutely honor a similar deal for a set of Griffin G1 In-Wall mains... you won't be disappointed.   Cool   FM

index.php/fa/11406/0/

Title: Re: Monitors???
Post by: Thomas Jouanjean on February 25, 2009, 02:59:10 am
Love that studio!