R/E/P Community

R/E/P => R/E/P Archives => j. hall => Topic started by: j.hall on August 15, 2005, 02:42:44 pm

Title: fiona apple's new record
Post by: j.hall on August 15, 2005, 02:42:44 pm
ok, i'm a big fan....if ya'll consider this a guilty pleasure then fine....

i think she's a great writer, and jon brion is always at his finest when working with her, and i'm a big fan of his.

this record was tracked and mixed a few years ago and her label gave her that "there's no single" crap.  she refused to write anymore and they sat at a dead lock for 2 or 3 years i think.

well.....it's finally going to see the light of day

check out the "single", which in this case is hilarious that the label is just releasing one song

http://www.myspace.com/fionaapple

the production is SICK!!!!
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: CCC on August 15, 2005, 05:50:44 pm
j.hall wrote on Mon, 15 August 2005 19:42

i think she's a great writer, and jon brion is always at his finest when working with her, and i'm a big fan of his.



Yea, he is absolutely the 'second coming' - true genius in an era where that term has been sadly diluted. I've been meaning to order his solo disc "Meaningless" - the clips I checked out were ridiculously good.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: nrosborough on August 15, 2005, 09:11:16 pm
oddly enough, I just downloaded the album (torrent) on a whim after reading about the Jon Brion/Kanye collaboration.   The arrangements in the songs are incredible, and while this record may not 'play' on AAA radio or your 'alterna-crap' station, I can't believe the fact that there is such amazing music FINISHED from a star musician / star producer that has been shelved all this time. Shame on the record company. SHAME
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: lord on August 16, 2005, 07:08:51 am
When I went to the myspace link, it freaked out and started playing 2 copies of the single at the same time.

I was thinking that I could understand how this was too "out" for the label.

Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: CCC on August 16, 2005, 08:23:30 am
j.hall wrote on Mon, 15 August 2005 19:42

i think she's a great writer, and jon brion is always at his finest when working with her, and i'm a big fan of his.



Whoops - hey wait a second - this record was produced by Mike Elizondo and Brian Kehew!

Brian is a regular poster - hey Brian - the track that is available on the myspace site is awesome. Would you care to tell us about it? It's a pretty cool kick sound, if you need somewhere to get started.... Comments?
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: j.hall on August 16, 2005, 08:25:50 am
if you read her myspace page it sites two other guys are producing the record other then jon brion.

i wonder if she finally caved and recut the thing with some one else.

i read a few years ago that jon brion produced the record, but now he's not being credited for the work.

i have a few "leaked" tracks from the jon brion sessions, maybe i'll post them.

Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: CCC on August 16, 2005, 08:31:38 am
j.hall wrote on Tue, 16 August 2005 13:25

if you read her myspace page it sites two other guys are producing the record other then jon brion.

i wonder if she finally caved and recut the thing with some one else.

i read a few years ago that jon brion produced the record, but now he's not being credited for the work.

i have a few "leaked" tracks from the jon brion sessions, maybe i'll post them.




Sorry mate, I can't find the reference to Mr. Brion. It would suck if he was not credited for his work....for sure....

Just out of curiousity - I'm not, like, lecturing here, but don't you expose yourself to liability if you post those 'leaked' tracks? I dunno - just lookin' out for you bud.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: j.hall on August 16, 2005, 11:52:18 am
not considering i downloaded them about 2 years ago off a few different websites.

if you do a few internet seraches you'll find the tracks all over the place.

what is anyone going to do to me anyway....ask me to pull the tracks down???
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: CCC on August 16, 2005, 12:21:20 pm
j.hall wrote on Tue, 16 August 2005 16:52


what is anyone going to do to me anyway....ask me to pull the tracks down???


Yep, that's about it. Somewhere in that not very well articulated statute y'all have called the DMCA the story starts with 'notice and take down'. I think the story ends with RIAA robocops at your door with truncheons (ask Dmitry Sklyarov).

Anyway - looking forward to hearing this material!
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: Guasp on August 16, 2005, 12:30:18 pm
hello, longtime lurker here,

to clear up the Jon Brion thing,

Jon brion produced the version of the album that was recorded a few years ago and is floating around the internet. Ms Apple has since scrapped that version and started again from scratch with producer Mike Elizondo. only 2 songs survived from the jon brion sessions.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: drumsound on August 16, 2005, 01:05:43 pm
The Myspace version is different from the one that's been floating around.

What other songs besides "Oh Sailor" survived?  I hope "Please Please Please" is there.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 16, 2005, 01:27:52 pm
Guasp wrote on Tue, 16 August 2005 09:30

Ms Apple has since scrapped that version and started again from scratch with producer Mike Elizondo. only 2 songs survived from the jon brion sessions.


To correct that, it's produced by Mike Elizondo AND Brian Kehew.

My two cents on Jon are well known.  First, a disclaimer: Jon taught me so much about music and how to listen to it, that I would not be half the musician, producer or engineer I am without his influence.  He is one of the greatest guitar players alive, a ridiculous keyboard player, drummer, and even kills on double mallet vibes.  His ear, understanding of harmony and musical memory for detail are mind numbing.  I'd give my left nut to have his musical abilities.  Even though I do have a personal axe to grind with him (a different story), I think I can still be completely objective in my opinion.  

That being said, I don't care for him as a producer, and I don't care for his newer songs as much as his older songs.  I think as a producer, he gets too 'clever'.  I honestly feel that on the first Rufus album as well as just about everything else, there's times where it's more about 'notice how clever this is,'  rather than 'notice how well this serves the song.'  That same self indulgence goes to his writing and letting the artists he works with meander too much in their writing.  I'm all for artistic integrity and idealism, but the reality is that people these days have a "next" button available to them.  When Yes made Close To the Edge, kids would smoke some pot, put on a record and listen with headphones ... patiently.  You can't ignore the fact that people listen differently these days, so if you are going to let Sony hire you, go over deadline and over budget, you owe it to the artist and the label to make a record that people are going to want to buy.  Is it too much to at least ask for one radio single, then you can do Pet Sounds and pump organ solos for the rest of the record?  

A producer's job is to produce a finished master to the label.  This means that you actually have to finish it and you can't decide to fly to Abbey Road to do a third string arrangement because it seems like something cool to do.  Jon seems to be unable to commit to a creative decision, and constantly retracks stuff in different ways.  I would have more respect for his production if he had more focus.  I know a little bit about what Fiona went through, and I feel for her.  I don't think it's fair for the producer to take that long, go that far over budget and hand in a record that the label doesn't want to release.

Jon is a genius.  And like many geniuses, he suffers from severe myopia.  I mean, it's REALLY extreme.  I lived with the guy, so just take my word for it.  However, I think letting somebody that myopic be in a position as a producer, unchecked, can be a bad thing.  Also, I don't know what good being that genius is if all your records don't sell well and those artists never want to work with you again, let alone talk with you.

I'd really like to see Jon have some success as a producer in terms of sales.  Maybe his Kanye West thing will do that for him, partially because Kanye has oversight and final say.  So many of us believed in Jon and recognized his talent when nobody knew who he was, and he didn't even have money to eat sometimes.  I let Jon stay on my couch for half a year, and let the Grays use my rehearsal place for free during the period that they didn't have a deal.  I think all of us hoped for a day when people everywhere would recognize his talent, which thankfully they now do.  The flipside of that is I think they over indulge his talent.  It's like this line I remember from a movie where somebody was talking to a grade school art teacher and commenting on how amazing all the children's paintings were.  She asked the teacher how she taught them to paint such beautiful pictures, and the teacher said, "I didn't.  I just knew when to take their brush away."  Well, I think Jon would benefit greatly from having somebody who knew when to take his brush away.

Now I know you guys are all going to jump to his defense and flame me, so let's hear it.

EDIT: If you love Jon's music, buy Rusty Anderson's (McCartney's guitarist) solo record, Undressing Underwater.  It's not in stores yet, but it is on iTunes.  It reminds me so much of Jon's stuff 15 years ago, especially songs like "Hurt Myself".
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: j.hall on August 16, 2005, 01:34:03 pm
so, she caved to the label pressure.  i don't blame her, she held out for a LONG TIME.  i think it was around 3 years she fought with them.....

does anyone have the entire jon brion record, sequenced, that might be willing to get it to me....i only have two songs.

i'll pst the two i've got in a minute.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 16, 2005, 02:05:12 pm
I don't think it was a matter of caving.  I heard Sony just plain said that they weren't releasing it.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: j.hall on August 16, 2005, 03:48:23 pm
Fiona Apple

two tracks off the jon brion record.

it would be interesting to hear her comments on this whole thing.  it seems odd that an artist would hire jon brion after working with him as the producer on her 2nd record, and hiring him to play tons of stuff on her first record, then end up unhappy with the final product of her thirda album.  you'd think she knew exactly what she was getting into, and you'd think she hired him for exactly that reason.

Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: John Ivan on August 16, 2005, 04:34:46 pm
I think it's really cool! Love it.!  The second track is amazing to me. See, why can't they rotate THAT on radio?? I wish I could go out and buy this record right now.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 16, 2005, 04:56:33 pm
It sounds cool, but I totally see why Sony hates it.  No radio program director in his right mind, oustide of NPR, would ever put these tunes in the playlist.  On a personal note, I much prefer Andy Slater's production.  I just really can't stand the calliope and carnival thing that Jon keeps doing over and over and over.  OK!  We get it already!  You're 'ecclectic weird guy'!  It is so "check out how cute and clever I am", and is totally incongruous with the meaning of the song.  Most importantly, Fiona rocks and she's angry, neurotic chick.  That's part of what made her first record work so well.  Here's a 16 year old girl who sells her weariness better than most 30 year olds.  Slater got that and he made that the focal point and built the album around that.  There's none of that here.  "Better Version of Me" has the anger in the lyrics and her singing, and the music doesn't have it at all.  It sounds like somebody cut off Fiona's balls and has her singing on the soundtrack to Eternal Sunshine....  Her attitude and vocal seems like an afterthought.  I like the new version that I heard much better.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: j.hall on August 16, 2005, 10:37:52 pm
i guess it still doesn't add up for me.  i just don't see why she'd hire the guy for a third time if she knew it would be a struggle and might turn out bad.....

i have to totally disagree about making music that's mass consumable simply because it's year 2005 and we have skip buttons.....

some of the most brilliant writers, producers, mixers, engineers, artists in the music biz are the ones that simply can not make a record that is "mass consumable"  it's just not the way they hear music and it's not the way they function

it's whole pysch debate of the fine line between genius and insanity.....

neither of those two classifications exist in what any psychologist would consider a "normal", fits into society well, type personality.

arguing the merits of making records for the mass market's consumption in this particular forum, to this forum's readership, is like telling a group of vampires that the sun is cool and something they ought to "take in"
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: jimmyjazz on August 16, 2005, 11:50:16 pm
Hmmm . . . I liked those tunes.  A lot.  I don't see them as being "NPR-only".  In fact, that's the kind of thinking that is stunting radio these days.

There is a highly successful commercial FM station here in Austin that would definitely not stretch its own boundaries playing either tune.  If you give the public more than they "ask for", sometimes the public surprises you.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: Fibes on August 17, 2005, 09:13:48 am
I'm a bit split on the subject.

Both those tunes have a big Brion stamp but on BVOM I'm hearing intervals from the first record just a lot more of them. My assistant said he gets it and that it sounded like where she wanted to go but couldn't early on.

I'd listen to both. Choosing art over art gets too tiresome when you spend weeks sorting through bullshit to find the art.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 17, 2005, 09:44:45 am
j. hall, this is only the second time he produced her.  And as to why Fiona does what she does, you would have to know her to understand that.

Bottom line with radio: Clear Channel (who I hate) is not going to play this.  That's who gets your records sold, not some station in Austin.

And as far as the "next button" goes, you're right.  It doesn't matter IF you aren't spending hundreds of thousands of dollars making a record.  But if you are going to spend that much money making a record, and then the label is going to spend a million dollars marketing and promoting the thing (all of which is recoupable), you have to take these things into account, IMO.  If, as a producer, you are making art for art's sake, then don't waste the artist's money.  Jon isn't the one paying for Abbey Road string sessions.  Fiona is.  A good producer would be interested in the concept of making sure that the artist gets back the money that the producer decided to spend for them. Otherwise, as I said, it's selfish and self indulgent.  

This is a business.  When you make major label records, that is the bottom line.  They are giving you money that they want to make back, plus some more.  If you don't want to worry about that kind of thing, then spend your own money and make indie records.   That's what I have done in that situation.  I didn't want to be accountable to an A&R guy, so I watched the budget and paid for it myself.  But if somebody id hiring me to make a record that is going to sell, I think it is absolutely possible to find a happy medium between art and commerce.  I think Jon's failure with all his productions is to acknowledge that responsibility.  If you think Nirvana wasn't concerned with selling records when they made Nevermind, even though nobody else was doing what they were doing, then you are naive.  
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: NelsonL on August 17, 2005, 10:44:55 am
J.J. Blair wrote on Wed, 17 August 2005 06:44

 
If you think Nirvana wasn't concerned with selling records when they made Nevermind, even though nobody else was doing what they were doing, then you are naive.  


I'm sure they were concerned with selling records all the way back to Bleach, which was made for about $600. Nobody wants to tank-- whatever the scope of their undertaking.

For me, the biggest problem with the JB productions, is that Fiona is still singing on them. Much like Sting, something about her music gives me this slightly nauseous feeling. I know that sounds cheeky, but it's true. Tres L.A. in a very bad way (take that JJ!) I kid, I kid.

That being said, the whole concept of "guilty pleasures" is really lame (which I think J. was kind of hinting at.)

If you like it, enjoy it-- who cares what label it's on.

Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: j.hall on August 17, 2005, 04:05:38 pm
J.J. Blair wrote on Wed, 17 August 2005 08:44


Bottom line with radio: Clear Channel (who I hate) is not going to play this.  That's who gets your records sold, not some station in Austin.



well, entercom and clear channel seemed to have no problem playing the crap out of modest mouse, which easily one of the weirdest things i've heard broadcast in my life time, at least on corporate radio.

and gee, look how that blew up.  one of the quirkier indie rock bands of current day just broke into the mainstream through clear channel and entercom.......

Quote:


It doesn't matter IF you aren't spending hundreds of thousands of dollars making a record.  But if you are going to spend that much money making a record, and then the label is going to spend a million dollars marketing and promoting the thing (all of which is recoupable), you have to take these things into account, IMO.  If, as a producer, you are making art for art's sake, then don't waste the artist's money.  Jon isn't the one paying for Abbey Road string sessions.  Fiona is.  A good producer would be interested in the concept of making sure that the artist gets back the money that the producer decided to spend for them. Otherwise, as I said, it's selfish and self indulgent.  



oh yeah, cause spending that much money on any record EVER isn't self indulgent and selfish.  gimme a break man.  you can't possible point the finger at jon brion alone.  major label producers in general are to blame for wasting GOBS of money and seemingly justifying it as an "artistic decision".......

Quote:


This is a business.  When you make major label records, that is the bottom line.  They are giving you money that they want to make back, plus some more.  



yeah, money they want back off the artists tiny little percentage, while they seem to have no problem with giving a producer 600k (of the artists tiny little percentage) to make a record with.......don't lecture me on how the biz works, don't get me wrong, there's plenty i don't know......but i've got the whole art vs. business thing down.

Quote:


If you think Nirvana wasn't concerned with selling records when they made Nevermind, even though nobody else was doing what they were doing, then you are naive.  


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: CCC on August 17, 2005, 04:19:53 pm
It's interesting music.

Nothing much wrong with interesting music.

It probably can't be understood, packaged, or marketed by the severely mentally deficient individuals we know as record label people.

I guess that's a problem.

Maybe she should get surgically altered, sign on to do a reality show, tongue-kiss Madonna at an awards show, marry and divorce someone in a weekend, or become a Scientologist.

Then the world could regard her with the appropriate amount of fascination. And there would be something to hang a marketing and publicity campaign off of.

As it stands now, it's just interesting music. Simply being good, interesting, or different is absolutely irrelevant in a world dominated by people with MBAs. If you can't do anything, if you can't understand anything, if you can't think for yourself, and if you have absolutely no testicular fortitude whatsoever, go to business school, then get a job marketing something. I know of what I speak. I got a degree in marketing before I went to music school. And I'm sorry. It takes years to get over that kind of head injury. It takes serious trepanning to bleed all that muck out of your skull.

Thanks for posting the tunes - they're really interesting.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: floodstage on August 17, 2005, 05:08:22 pm
 
John Sorensen wrote on Wed, 17 August 2005 15:19


........

Maybe she should get surgically altered, sign on to do a reality show, tongue-kiss Madonna at an awards show, marry and divorce someone in a weekend, or become a Scientologist.




Are you in marketing?

Sounds like you understand the job pretty well!   Laughing

Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: TheViking on August 17, 2005, 05:13:14 pm
LOL!!!

Yeah...   definately.

I find it kinda hard to believe that any artist would sit back and allow a producer to 'ruin her'.   I'm kinda with J on this one.   The Brion tracks have a brilliance to them - it's the way the vocals are treated and the way the songs are presented that are so refreshing to listen to.   The fact that it's not commercialized pop bullshit is probably the charm of it that draws me into wanting to hear more of it.

Just my two cents.

Kevin
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 17, 2005, 06:46:10 pm
Like I said, unless you know Fiona or about her, I wouldn't make any assumption about what she would or wouldn't choose to do.

And J, I'm not saying that Jon is the only guy who wastes artists' money.  However, in every album he has produced, he has failed to have a hit record that makes the money back.  Michael Beinhorn can overspend, and he is not anywhere as genius as Jon, but his track record is better.  

Like I said, artistic integrity is all well and great when it's your own money and your own career.  Also, to me, this doesn't sound fresh and exciting.  It's different from what's on the radio, for sure.  But it's the same calliope and carnival thing that Jon seems stuck in.  It's just my personal taste taht I like the Slater production more.

I just had a good friend of Jon's here an hour ago, and Jon came up in vonversation.  And I mentioned that I think it's a shame that Jon refuses to rock anymore.  The guy used to rock so hard.  Now it's like he's trying to be Raymond Scott meets Pet Sounds, and that is all he does, over and over and over.  He's so much more diverse than that, but it's like he's trying to make a point of making this is trademark sound.  The unfortunate thing is that he's doing it at his artists' expense, because for a number of albums with different artists now, nobody's getting it, aside from a handful of people.

It's a shame, because he is capable of so much more than even this, and he should have many hit records, but he doesn't.  My point is, it's not only OK to be successful, you should try to be successful when somebody hires you.  It doesn't have to be commercialized pop bullshit in order to be successful.  
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: jimmyjazz on August 17, 2005, 08:43:31 pm
J.J. Blair wrote on Wed, 17 August 2005 09:44

Bottom line with radio: Clear Channel (who I hate) is not going to play this.  That's who gets your records sold, not some station in Austin.


Well, in my opinion, if a producer automatically buys the argument that his job is to deliver a sure-fire commercial hit, then he is nothing more than another ClearChannel foot soldier.  Who is the producer working for, anyway?  The artist, or the label?

If artists (and ostensibly their producers) don't push back and try to help expand the status quo, then artists (and ostensibly their producers) really shouldn't complain about anything.

By the way, that "station in Austin" is probably responsible for 10K - 20K units sold of whatever indie release is tops on its rotation each year.  We're talking about the #50 market or so in America.  Do the math.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: j.hall on August 18, 2005, 08:53:20 am
J.J. Blair wrote on Wed, 17 August 2005 17:46


Like I said, artistic integrity is all well and great when it's your own money and your own career.  Also, to me, this doesn't sound fresh and exciting.  It's different from what's on the radio, for sure.  But it's the same calliope and carnival thing that Jon seems stuck in.  It's just my personal taste taht I like the Slater production more.



oh i don't disagree with that at all.  i have yet to form my opinion of the new version of this album as i have yet to hear more then one track.......

also, i'm not trying to claim i know what fiona is thinking or what she wants.  i think it's odd that she worked with him again knowing that it's her money she'll have to recoup, and knowing he'd be a wild card.

then again, i guess that's your point.

like usual J.J.  i always like disagreeing with you cause it stays professional and respectful.  

Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: lord on August 18, 2005, 11:13:20 am
j.hall wrote on Thu, 18 August 2005 08:53

like usual J.J.  i always like disagreeing with you cause it stays professional and respectful.  



Except for that part where you called us vampires!

Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 18, 2005, 11:36:12 am
I called you vampires?  Huh?  Fuck you guys, anyway.  I hate you all.   Very Happy

Jimmy, 20,000 units is certified linoleum.  Great for an indie, but a disaster for a major.  At 200,000 units, on a small budget major label release, you haven't even halfway recouped.  

BTW, don't get me wrong.  I'm all for changing the status quo and knocking the majors on their fat, bloated asses.  I'd like Clear Channel to die a miserable death so we can go back to the way FM radio was in the '70s, and you could hear a whole album side of Fiona, followed by literally anything else they felt like playing.  However, I'm simply trying to point the realistic responsibilties that go along with working for a major label.  Because the truth is that you are working for both the artist AND the label.  The label can fire you too, and it's their money being spent that the artist has to pay back.  And it's just my personal opinion that Jon could do a better job of making the music just as cool, but more accessible to the people who just don't get this, if he only tried.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: Fibes on August 18, 2005, 11:43:21 am
lord wrote on Thu, 18 August 2005 11:13

j.hall wrote on Thu, 18 August 2005 08:53

like usual J.J.  i always like disagreeing with you cause it stays professional and respectful.  



Except for that part where you called us vampires!




That avatar of yours looks a bit pale bro.

I like the new song and the old ones. I want a full copy of the old album and i'll buy two new ones to make up for the theft.


Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: lord on August 18, 2005, 11:44:14 am
j.hall wrote on Tue, 16 August 2005 22:37

arguing the merits of making records for the mass market's consumption in this particular forum, to this forum's readership, is like telling a group of vampires that the sun is cool and something they ought to "take in"

Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: Fibes on August 18, 2005, 11:47:13 am
Lord,

get some sun will ya'? Lookin' at you is blinding.

In extraordinary machine does she say she likes poop?
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: jimmyjazz on August 18, 2005, 11:56:09 am
J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 18 August 2005 11:36

Jimmy, 20,000 units is certified linoleum. Great for an indie, but a disaster for a major


But that's the sales in Austin only.  

Sure, maybe the Austin record-buying public might be a bit more adventurous than that of most cities, but it's not like this is a huge metropolitan area.  Can you imagine what would happen if the other 49 or so bigger markets also had a station like KGSR that heavily promoted artists like Patti Griffin, Bob Schneider, Ryan Adams, Kelly Willis, etc.?  That 20K might be 500K . . . or more.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: j.hall on August 18, 2005, 12:05:17 pm
Fibes wrote on Thu, 18 August 2005 10:43


I like the new song and the old ones. I want a full copy of the old album and i'll buy two new ones to make up for the theft.






agreed......i want the old one as well, as previously mentioned.....if someone on here has it, please let me know how i can get it from you.

J.J.  i guess my "not so established point" was.... major label type ethics, work habits, concepts, etc....  are really out of place in this forum.

while showing us the responsiblity a producer has to the mainstream marketability of a record is cool and all, it only throws fuel on the "indie rock" fire that most all of us, down here in the seedy underbelly of the music business, burn on a daily basis.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: CCC on August 18, 2005, 12:45:06 pm
J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 18 August 2005 16:36

I called you vampires?  Huh?  


Not only that, but you use omnis as overheads, apparently.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: Fibes on August 18, 2005, 12:51:48 pm
Y'all are talking semantics and although i see both sides the holes that are getting poked at are patched on the personality/inflection level.

Indy does not mean anti-hero and commercially viable does not mean artless.

Is the Oh Sailor track on myspace a remixed version with merely less strings and overcompressed drums? I ask this from a vague and horribly codeced to death perspective.

Check out my "label" thread on the WW forum. It was delivered in a dream from the syndicate.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: drumsound on August 18, 2005, 01:01:09 pm
Fibes wrote on Thu, 18 August 2005 11:51

Y'all are talking semantics and although i see both sides the holes that are getting poked at are patched on the personality/inflection level.

Indy does not mean anti-hero and commercially viable does not mean artless.

Is the Oh Sailor track on myspace a remixed version with merely less strings and overcompressed drums? I ask this from a vague and horribly codeced to death perspective.

Check out my "label" thread on the WW forum. It was delivered in a dream from the syndicate.



It's a different recording.  The drums for sure are not the same.  The part itself is different.

And I do think she says "I'm into Poop..."
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: John Ivan on August 18, 2005, 01:03:27 pm
John Sorensen wrote on Thu, 18 August 2005 11:45

J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 18 August 2005 16:36

I called you vampires?  Huh?  


Not only that, but you use omnis as overheads, apparently.



That's funny :-}, ,How these threads start to mesh together. This place is crazy!!

I'm one of those guy's who thinks the kids buy what they are told to buy and nothing more. It's a lot like their food. All this record marketing/targeting seems to start when they are around 10 or 12 years old and it keeps rollin' till their about 20 or so..

There are ways to change what their listening to. First, we need criminal trials for the folks running the labels and publishing companies. This ,of course, would be felony charges.. :-},{can't make the smileys work.}

Really though, if the right folks worked this problem, we could be listening to great stuff.. At first, kid's are a bit reluctant to jump on the band wagon but, a little shame can do the trick,, { come on duuude!! you don't dig this??}

I really do think it's a matter of the wrong people selling to our kids.. Look at the food they eat.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: lord on August 18, 2005, 01:19:32 pm
If you took the original version of 'Exraordinary Machine' and pitch-shifted Fiona's voice down 3 octaves, the track wouldn't be out of place on a Tom Waits record.

Quite a bizarre accomplishment, if you ask me.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 18, 2005, 01:24:19 pm
BTW, I'm making a record with a guy right now who has the demos for Extraoridary Machine that Jon and Fiona did, all recorded on the Pet Sounds console.  I'll make a point of copying .... errrr, I mean listening to them at some point.  (I'll start the bidding at $20.)  <jk>
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: CCC on August 18, 2005, 01:41:52 pm
J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 18 August 2005 18:24

BTW, I'm making a record with a guy right now who has the demos for Extraoridary Machine that Jon and Fiona did, all recorded on the Pet Sounds console.  I'll make a point of copying .... errrr, I mean listening to them at some point.  (I'll start the bidding at $20.)  <jk>


The Pet Sounds console? Where the hell is it, and who owns it?
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 18, 2005, 02:27:59 pm
I have to ask.  I wish I had read this before my friend split a minute ago.  I'll have an answer for you tomorrow unless he calls me later today.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: j.hall on August 18, 2005, 03:19:30 pm
who invited fibes to this party anyway?
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: Fibes on August 18, 2005, 03:36:19 pm
j.hall wrote on Thu, 18 August 2005 15:19

who invited fibes to this party anyway?


Your narcissistic ass faced twin.

I'm liking the Brion stuff more and more, i can hear the polyester of the string section moving in unison with the tape hiss.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: j.hall on August 18, 2005, 04:11:33 pm
Fibes wrote on Thu, 18 August 2005 14:36


Your narcissistic ass faced twin.



i knew you invited yourself......PARTY CRASHER!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: Fibes on August 18, 2005, 06:32:23 pm
Crashes are exciting. Invitations are for those in need of validation of their parking.

I'm not into poop.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: canada on August 18, 2005, 07:04:21 pm
The bootleg tracks that I heard a year or so ago were devoid of catchy melodies and sounded very "look at me, I'm playing a Brian Wilson chord!" for no apparent reason other than to sound brainy.  Looking forward to hearing the finished album, though, as I am a fan.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: canada on August 18, 2005, 07:14:45 pm
j.hall wrote on Wed, 17 August 2005 21:05



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA




Why are you laughing?  Kurt Cobain was just as money-driven as most wannabe rock stars... Didn't you ever hear the stories about him dressing in a suit  (!!!) and driving to LA to try and impress record execs with his album?  Or anything about the production of Nevermind, with the drum triggers and production tricks?

Maybe I misread you though.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: drumsound on August 19, 2005, 11:46:04 am
canada wrote on Thu, 18 August 2005 18:04

The bootleg tracks that I heard a year or so ago were devoid of catchy melodies and sounded very "look at me, I'm playing a Brian Wilson chord!" for no apparent reason other than to sound brainy.  Looking forward to hearing the finished album, though, as I am a fan.



Really?  I "found" the whole record and I find a lot of it catchy.  "Window" "Please Please Please" "Extrodinary Machine" and "Not About Love" all stick with me.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: canada on August 19, 2005, 01:09:55 pm
Well, I suspect that if she had sat at a piano by herself without the incredibly accomplished-sounding drummer and the creepy organ grinder crap it would've tickled my ears a bit more.  I'm still really looking forward to hearing the finished product.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: bigaudioblowhard on August 21, 2005, 01:40:32 pm
J.J. Blair wrote on Wed, 17 August 2005 16:46



It's just my personal taste taht I like the Slater production more.





I heard a good "Slater" story lately. Seems he was producing an artist in the studio latelly and working on what they hoped would be the single. During a break he suggested they shoot the video in Tuscany. To which the artist replied, "Don't I pay for that?" Talk about wasting artists money. The artist is no longer with Capitol Records.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: bigaudioblowhard on August 21, 2005, 02:14:13 pm
[quote title=canada wrote on Thu, 18 August 2005 17:14]
Kurt Cobain was just as money-driven as most wannabe rock stars...
/quote]

Well the way I see it, had Kurt not been so 'motivated' his songs would not still be with us even though he is not. I've worked with hundreds of artists and the only ones doing if for arts sake had day jobs or trust funds. Perhaps Canadians can luxuriate in their art with their social welfare and universal healthcare, but below the 49th baby, art is truly a luxury.

And dont get all "what would you know about Canada" on me, I was born and raised there, made records there and now live in the US. It really is different here, I'm not saying its better, it just is. Michael Moore touches on this in his brave film Fairenheight 911. Sincerly, bab.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 21, 2005, 05:34:43 pm
Quote:

I heard a good "Slater" story lately. Seems he was producing an artist in the studio latelly and working on what they hoped would be the single. During a break he suggested they shoot the video in Tuscany. To which the artist replied, "Don't I pay for that?" Talk about wasting artists money. The artist is no longer with Capitol Records.


I can't say a bad thing about Andy Slater.  He did more for the Wallflowers than you would believe when those guys sucked and had a first record that NOBODY bought.  He stuck by them and did a great job for them.  He discovered Fiona, signed her to his label, and never took a management fee.  (And managing Fiona is no picnic, either.)  Andy has done very right by her, and every artist he has produced or managed.  He also manages to run one of the only profitable labels in town, and has a roster of great new acts that most major labels wouldn't understand.  

I think blowhard's story is suspect, because anybody who knows the first thing about label contracts would know that you can't just up and leave a label because somebody suggests something outrageous.  (BTW, videos are only 50% recoupable, and the artist didn't have to agree to any video they don't want to make.)  

If this artist isn't on the label, it's because they were dropped.  Cute story, but meaningless.  
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: canada on August 22, 2005, 11:27:32 am
bigaudioblowhard wrote on Sun, 21 August 2005 19:14

the only ones doing if for arts sake had day jobs or trust funds. Perhaps Canadians can luxuriate in their art with their social welfare and universal healthcare, but below the 49th baby, art is truly a luxury.

And dont get all "what would you know about Canada" on me, I was born and raised there


I wasn't knocking him for being money-driven, look where his hard work got him!  Hmm, although he's not exactly the best example!

Also, I'm not from Canada.

Cheers!
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: j.hall on August 26, 2005, 08:48:23 am
ok, i finally got to hear the entire jon brion record.

i have to some what agree with JJ, i can see why the label wanted no part of this record.

however, i love it for all it's eccentrisities.  it doesn't "circusie" to me at all.  which, "when the pawn..." sort of does in many places.

i'm really interested in hearing the differences between the two records.

the string arrangements are SICK.

Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: xonlocust on August 26, 2005, 09:45:57 am
the guy can't seem to catch a break - i was real excited to hear his work on the new kanye record, but he even got pulled from that. from LA times article.

Quote:

"They thought it was too white," West said, sitting in a room at Chalice Recording Studios Hollywood last weekend. (He uses "white" referring to pop music and "black" for R&B and hip-hop.) "Others thought the sample was too corny, and I had to listen to them. Mainly, I realized I may be going too fast in trying to open new dimensions in hip-hop. I needed to take one step at a time if I wanted to bring my audience with me."

West returned to the studio and threw out four tracks from the CD he had been working on in L.A. for months with pop producer Jon Brion, who produced Apple's second album. They replaced them with tracks that West describes as more "black." (He's saving the "discards" for his next album, which he's already titled "Graduation Day.")

Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 26, 2005, 10:26:07 am
Wow.  I was hoping that he would catch a break with Kanye.  I don't know what's up with that.  Jon is capable of being extremely funky.    We used to do a jam every Saturday, years ago when we lived together.  I'd bring my clavinet, and he would play shit that could have given Max Middleton a run for his money.  Also, there was a time when he had his Optigan, Mellotron and Chamberlain hooked up and as a joke started doing a hip hop type thing on those, and it killed.  I'll never forget it.

This goes to the heart of what I was criticizing Jon for.  He's really capable of so much, that it's sickening.  I could go on with stories about that.  However, he seems obsessed with making this goddamn calliope music, and is his own worst enemy when it comes to success.  I really wish he'd get over it and show eveybody how even more brilliant he is.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: bigaudioblowhard on August 29, 2005, 02:40:20 am

Yeah, thats some sickening calliope.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: rankus on August 29, 2005, 07:15:18 pm
bigaudioblowhard wrote on Sun, 21 August 2005 11:14

 Perhaps Canadians can luxuriate in their art with their social welfare and universal health-care, but below the 49th baby, art is truly a luxury.

.



Bahahahaha!   My "free universal health-care" costs me $54.00 a month, and if I want to have my eyes checked (tomorrow) it's $65.00 ....  If I want to have an operation chances are pretty good that I will die on the waiting list... it can take months to years to get in for elective surgery,,,... (And even if I could pay to have it done privately that's illegal, unless your a hockey player or politician)

And you can only get welfare if your a friggin junkie or "refugee"....

Sorry.  Just had to vent... things in Canada may look good from the other side of the fence, but our politicians are just as corrupt as the rest of the world... We never see any of that social stuff you hear about...

"Art" is just as painfull up here...
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: j.hall on September 27, 2005, 09:55:23 am
go hear her new record here

http://www.myspace.com/fionaapple

Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: Daniel Farris on September 28, 2005, 10:21:28 am
Quote:

I can't say a bad thing about Andy Slater.


I agree he's done very well for the bands he's managed or produced.

Mind you, I've only met the guy two or three times, but he single handedly ended the career of a very good band I've worked extensively with... while simultaneously ensuring that more than a million dollars of Capitol's money was wasted.

And didn't he produce "When the Pawn"? How did that record sell?
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: J.J. Blair on September 28, 2005, 12:13:50 pm
Jon Brion produced "When the Pawn".  

Please, do tell your Slater story.  I'm curious.

BTW, the story with Kanye is that Jon's tracks have indeed made the record, and he is prominently featured in a VH1 special about the making of the album.  I'm happy for him.  As I originally said about the union, I think having somebody with some hit making instincts oversee Jon's ecclectic nature is the perfect scenario for him, and I hope he finally has a hit record.  

However, apparently the single is not produced by Jon, and the whole "it wasn't black enough" thing that Kanye said inly applied to the single.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: Daniel Farris on September 28, 2005, 08:47:31 pm
Quote:

Jon Brion produced "When the Pawn".


Oh yeah. Oops. I knew that. Sorry.

Quote:

Please, do tell your Slater story. I'm curious.



As much as I'd like to, I probably shouldn't.

Maybe I'll hop over to the Velvet Rope and whine about it there.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: danickstr on October 02, 2005, 10:13:29 pm
the creepy carnivale is not really working for me, but I do love that gal.  I fell in lust with her after her "cwiminal" and now that I hear she's into poop, I am kinda nervous but not in a bad way. Cool

she would rock even if any of you produced her....HAH. (jk) I am sure many of you would do a great job.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: mitgong on October 14, 2005, 03:12:39 pm
SO.  After weeks of reading about the differences between the Brion vs. Elizondo productions of the new Fiona Apple records, I'd finally come around to the general public consensus that JB is a time-waster falling back on his old tricks.

And then I actually heard both versions.  It's the difference between liking Fiona Apple or not.  I heard the Elizondo first, and thought:  "she's actually pretty boring, isn't she?".  Then I heard the Jon Brion, and thought:  "She's a fucking genius!".

And it's not just the calliope music!  She actually sounds more interested and challenged as a singer on the JB version.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: j.hall on October 17, 2005, 11:05:23 am
mitgong wrote on Fri, 14 October 2005 14:12



And it's not just the calliope music!  She actually sounds more interested and challenged as a singer on the JB version.


agreed!!!
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: canada on October 21, 2005, 01:16:13 am
Just spent a week of spinning Extraordinary Machine pretty heavily... better than the unofficial version imo.  I've done a couple shootouts at this point... I want to say I like what Jon Brion did at least in theory, but the songs just sound more powerful to me on the official cuts.  Got tickets to see her at the Orpheum in Boston soon after watching the DVD that came with the release.  What an amazing singer, I can't recall ever hearing a bunk note out of her, ever.  The live disc really underscores that.

But don't tell me I'm a corporate lapdog, I'd much rather expound on the merits of US Maple or Crust than talk about Andy Slater production techniques...
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: J.J. Blair on October 23, 2005, 03:38:01 pm
What upsets me about this record is that Brian Kehew is not getting his due for his production contribution, either in the press or on the liner notes (from what I understand).  This record would not have come out in 2005 at all, let alone sounded the way it did if not for Brian.  Fiona was very unimpressed with the demos that Elizondo made and was not going to act on them.  There's a real David v. Goliath story regarding the whole producer situation, but I'd rather that somebody else tell the story.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: Fibes on October 24, 2005, 12:08:44 pm
J.J. Blair wrote on Sun, 23 October 2005 15:38

  There's a real David v. Goliath story regarding the whole producer situation, but I'd rather that somebody else tell the story.


I have a few thoughts of my own but I'm still thinking a lot of the stuff is just slight retouches of the Brion stuff.


Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: j.hall on October 25, 2005, 05:09:13 pm
interesting...  this record just can't seem to avoid controversy, no matter which version of it we're talking about..............

Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: Tidewater on November 07, 2005, 11:27:18 am
I think all the oddity captured with V1 of this record, was concentrated Fiona. I don't think it gets more Fiona than that.

I loved the first record, didn't know there was a second one, and I wish they'd have just released ExMa v1, and let the public decide if it was a buy.

I think it was. I love it. Favorite_recent_anything.

Anyone still not heard the v1 in total? it's great.

(not to dis v2, only heard 2 tracks.. sounds good too)

M
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: canada on December 08, 2005, 02:49:49 am
Just saw her show at Orpheum in Boston tonight.  I am a total convert.  She is the most amazing thing of all time.  That is all /salute
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: TheCurmudgeon on December 25, 2005, 05:06:32 pm
Just heard the commercial release of Ex. Machine.

Very disturbing.

I am baffled, or perhaps scared, by comments here.

The new version is an almost textbook example of a "forced" sounding performance.  Accents are screwed up.  Where the original version swings, the new version sounds stiff. Rhythmically it's so bad I can't listen to it, it's basically ruined my Christmas thinking about how someone can take a swinging song and try to force it to a straight beat!  Not to mention removing the unique things about it that made it so immediately fresh sounding.  More challenging than the standard MTV/Clear Channel fodder, but still catchy and memorable.

Oddball things abound: sounds are gated off that once had a great vibe to them, melodies are glued on, things absent that were originally very novel and memorable.  The characteristic calliope/circus thing people complain about - yeah, it sounds different, so what?  It's truely great.  In place it sounds like things are tracked in that are meant to be quirky and novel, but aren't.  There's a difference, Brion knows that difference, I'm sorry but I don't think Elizondo does.  I don't blame him, he was probably charged with trying to make it different enough to avoid Brion's legal angle, but this is so sad.

The Brion version had such charm, and her vocal performance sat in the groove perfectly, and most importantly ergonomically.  The new version sounds like someone edited her voice out and stuck it over some off the shelf loops!  Where the original breathed structurally the new one sounds spastic, like they thought they absolutely had to put in MTV-esque drama where it wasn't needed.   No subtlety, just wal-mart rococco.

Devoid of charm and character.  Eviscerated of true performance.

I hate, hate , hate this, because I see this as a triumph of the know-nothings over the talented.  It is beyond me how anyone can listen to the new version and think it's good, much less better than the original!  I know of so many people who have been listening to the original for a long time now, who are baffled as to why it wasn't released.  People wonder why the industry suffers - it's for things like this.  It's so amazing that people fail to see that you can't predict the record buying public's whimsy.  Thinking like this would have kept things like Sgt.Pepper, Dark Side of the Moon, Pet Sounds, Are You Experienced, distorted guitar and close-miced drums from having been heard.  The suits know more about music than the artist or the public!

I'm sorry to rant, but this has almost ruined my Christmas having just heard it last night.  Apologies to Elizondo, but I'm sure he made enough from it to not care about anonymous driveby criticism.  I don't know how much Brion spent on making the original, but it's wonderful and it's a shame at the same time.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: cerberus on December 25, 2005, 08:01:14 pm
mitgong wrote on Fri, 14 October 2005 15:12

SO. It's the difference between liking Fiona Apple or not.  I heard the Elizondo first, and thought:  "she's actually pretty boring, isn't she?".  Then I heard the Jon Brion, and thought:  "She's a fucking genius!".

it's as if she writes tunes and sings them well, but doesn't seem to know who or what she wants in her backing band. the arrangements seem completely up to her producer.  i guess her management does not coach her well; it seems they prefer stick her into the lucky slot machine and pull the lever.

jeff dinces
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: idiophone on December 26, 2005, 11:49:27 am
I'm totally in agreement with everything said here. She's not inspired on the Elizondo tracks. No amount of "straight talk" to Entertainment Weekly, Paste, etc. is going to hide the fact that on the released record, she sounds like she's fronting her own cover band.

BUT!

Get the dual disc of the released version, and you'll get five or so videos of her and Brion at Largo. That's what saved it for me.

~id
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: j.hall on December 26, 2005, 09:45:35 pm
TheCurmudgeon wrote on Sun, 25 December 2005 16:06

 I know of so many people who have been listening to the original for a long time now, who are baffled as to why it wasn't released.




do any of these people have a 16 bit 44.1 version of the album, sequenced and mastered as it was supposed to be release?

all i have is terrible mp3s
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: TheCurmudgeon on December 27, 2005, 05:50:34 am
j.hall wrote on Tue, 27 December 2005 02:45


do any of these people have a 16 bit 44.1 version of the album, sequenced and mastered as it was supposed to be release?

all i have is terrible mp3s


The one I have are mp3's of what sounds like a stereo mic setup in front of a pair of monitors. I would LOVE a "real" copy. Although having said that, again - the MUSIC makes me listen to the crappy copy repeatedly.  

What a funny notion these days.

Maybe someone could up a torrent somewhere of a more direct copy?  Sony shouldn't care, since they apparently feel it wasn't good, right?

What was the real story?  I presume from this thread Brion went over budget, and Sony didn't like it?  Seems weird, making her lose momentum for so long.  Kinda smells like the recent Dave Matthews "new artistic direction".
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: chris haines on January 20, 2006, 04:28:06 am
i really love fiona apple, i really hate her new record...

haven't heard the first version but I'm going to look for it...
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: drumsound on January 21, 2006, 04:40:39 am
j.hall wrote on Mon, 26 December 2005 20:45

TheCurmudgeon wrote on Sun, 25 December 2005 16:06

 I know of so many people who have been listening to the original for a long time now, who are baffled as to why it wasn't released.




do any of these people have a 16 bit 44.1 version of the album, sequenced and mastered as it was supposed to be release?

all i have is terrible mp3s



I'd really love a real version too!

I saw her on Jay Leno a couple months ago.  The live peformance was a lot more like the Brion version than the "official" version.  I think Charlie Drayton was playing drums.
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: maxim on January 22, 2006, 09:26:57 am
frankly, i find the girl a little irritating, and i only listened to the record to hear whar was left of jon brion's work

to me, it sounds emasculated, if i can use that word

i'd love to hear the original, though

jonh s wrote:

"Yea, he is absolutely the 'second coming' - true genius in an era where that term has been sadly diluted. I've been meaning to order his solo disc "Meaningless""

absolutely brilliant, file it under "must have"
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: danickstr on January 29, 2006, 09:10:15 pm
maxim wrote on Sun, 22 January 2006 09:26



jonh s wrote:

"Yea, he is absolutely the 'second coming' - true genius in an era where that term has been sadly diluted. I've been meaning to order his solo disc "Meaningless""

absolutely brilliant, file it under "must have"


how does one define genius in today's world of incalculable subsets of musical genre?

This jaded mainstream junkie would love to know.... Smile
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: maxim on January 29, 2006, 09:58:01 pm
nick wrote:

"how does one define genius in today's world of incalculable subsets of musical genre?"

best definition i've heard goes as follows:

talent means being able to hit the target others can't

genius means being able to see the target others can't


Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: danickstr on January 29, 2006, 11:15:32 pm
i'll buy that for a dollar Smile

Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: maxim on January 30, 2006, 07:53:51 am
it's only worth about $0.02
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: j.hall on January 30, 2006, 09:47:41 am
maxim wrote on Mon, 30 January 2006 06:53

it's only worth about $0.02


for .02 cents i can be a certified genius producer? is ths some sally struthers trade school?
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: maxim on January 30, 2006, 09:21:12 pm
j wrote:

"for .02 cents i can be a certified genius producer?"

20 millicents?

you're dreaming

times it by a hundred, and you're in the running
Title: Re: fiona apple's new record
Post by: danickstr on January 31, 2006, 01:45:45 am
if twenty girls named Millicent are yours, you MUST be a genius producer.