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R/E/P => R/E/P Archives => Terry Manning => Topic started by: J.J. Blair on March 21, 2005, 05:45:09 pm

Title: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 21, 2005, 05:45:09 pm
OK, so I obviously don't care who I piss off, but I just can't be phony.  It's not like Jack doesn't know me or know who I am.  But hey, if somebody is a dick and overrated, I'm the first to say so.  If you're a nice guy however, and overrated, I'll usually let it slide.  But this is just begging for it, IMHO:
index.php/fa/873/0/
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: wwittman on March 21, 2005, 06:30:42 pm
"5 things that will destroy your mix"

when two of them are right on the cover:

Comparing preamps

and "making magic" with plug ins

come to think of it, there may be a subtle third "thing" on the cover.
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: Norwood on March 21, 2005, 06:35:22 pm
He may be a tool (or atleast look like one), but its actually a decent article.

I think he looks more like the prince in "Robin Hoood-Prince of theives" than Zoolander. Shocked

"Why a spoon cousin?"
"Because it's dull you twit, it'll hurt more!"
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 21, 2005, 08:18:18 pm
Right, he looks like Alan Rickman, but the pose is pure Zoolander.  He does that same pose in every picture.
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: Norwood on March 21, 2005, 08:36:06 pm
"What is this, the Zoolander center for ants!?!
How are the kid's going to learn to read if they can't fit in the building!" Laughing
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 21, 2005, 08:44:57 pm
http://www.eqmag.com/Pictures/Title/v/u/r/final_spread.jpg
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: zmix on March 21, 2005, 08:54:30 pm
The files are IN the computer?

Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: RMoore on March 22, 2005, 03:08:27 am
The '5 things that will destroy your mix' line CAN"T be a coincidence,
Pretty funny,
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: Norwood on March 22, 2005, 04:26:01 am
You can READ minds!?!
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: Fletcher on March 22, 2005, 04:41:24 am
On the bright side... at least it wasn't the Lord Pond Scum Bros... Jack may be "over rated" [aren't most of us?]... but from what I've heard he does way less damage than those Alge boys.

Frankly... I'd take the scraps either camp throws to the side...
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: punkest on March 22, 2005, 07:44:09 am
J.J. wrote on Mon, 21 March 2005 22:45

OK, so I obviously don't care who I piss off, but I just can't be phony.  It's not like Jack doesn't know me or know who I am.  But hey, if somebody is a dick and overrated, I'm the first to say so.  If you're a nice guy however, and overrated, I'll usually let it slide.  But this is just begging for it, IMHO:
index.php/fa/873/0/



HAHAHAHA, this looks damn bad!! wwjjpd???  
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: Otitis Media on March 22, 2005, 08:16:53 am
Perhaps the expression is a smug "I have regular work at this shit" exression?
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 22, 2005, 08:30:59 am
Fletcher, as much as the Alge's mutate somebody's tracks, I have to say that their mixes have usually sounded better and clearer to me than JJP's.  Their stuff may be overly bright and overly compressed, but one of my complaints with JJP is that his mixes tend to be too busy, too crowded and it seems like he only listened to each instrument on its own while EQing and compressing, and then threw all the faders up disregarding what steps on what. But that is just how I hear it.  

On a side note, I just learned that he mixed a record that I had bought a year ago, and I was playing it in the car and my wife made me turn it off because there was some noise in the mix that was really annoying the fuck out of her.  She's never asked me to stop playing anything other than Yes before.  (She just can't do prog.)
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: Ross Hogarth on March 22, 2005, 09:05:14 am
I appreciate the humor at discussing
JJP's Zoolander - Black Shoe polish beard look .....
it has miffed me for years ..the "I take myself way too serious" look
but as art goes it is all subjective
he actually get's a chance to work on lot of shit I myself would love to touch and for whatever reason, keeps working which is admirable. We all can be a bit like throwing stones when we live in a glass house
I have to say it starts a discourse that is not very productive when dissing ones competition in public
I think in one forum there was a discourse about this
It is the kind of thing that might be better left for a private conversation
but since it was raised, once again, he looks abso fuckinlutely ridiculous on that cover ....
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: JackJohnston on March 22, 2005, 09:25:55 am

JellyFish's Bellybutton is one of my all time favorite mixes. It's a little noisy while at the same time not being mastered very hot, but it's just beautiful to listen to.

Jack
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: jwhynot on March 22, 2005, 11:35:38 am
Hey Ross you got in there first...!
JW
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 22, 2005, 11:50:25 am
Ross, I don't mind that somebody is getting work that I'm not, if I really think they are good.  I'll never argue with somebody who wants Bob Clearmountain or Brendan O'Brien to mix something, even though they already get a shitload of work.  It just drives me nuts when A&R people decide for whatever reason that 'if so-and-so mixes this, it will be a hit single,' like it's an empirical formula or something.  It especially pisses me off when the emperor's new clothes is revered like some fucking jedi master.  I realize that it makes me sound bitter or petty, but I'm sorry ... it's one thing to know your good and be confident bordering on cocky, but can you imagine Al Schmitt taking himself that seriously?

BTW, next time you drive by Hollywood and Vine, there is a billboard for some Mexican radio station with JJP's doppleganger on it.
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: Otitis Media on March 22, 2005, 12:03:10 pm
J.J. wrote on Tue, 22 March 2005 11:50

billboard with JJP's doppleganger on it.


I thought you couldn't show your doppelganger in public? Shocked  


only in LA......

Razz
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: compasspnt on March 22, 2005, 12:04:02 pm
Ross is certainly correct in that we should not "diss" anyone publicly...especially those who indeed keep getting work, for whatever reason.  As moderator, I have almost stopped this thread a couple of times already.  BUT I haven't stopped it as yet, and indeed some people do deserve "getting it" more than others do.

But please let's not get too personally abusive here.

Terry
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: wwittman on March 22, 2005, 12:42:19 pm
I also think this idea of the "hit mixer" (MIXER!!???) is ridiculous.. well made records barely need mixers, let alone "hit" mixers.

but it's not personal for me.
We may all like or dislike one person's work or another's.
That's only taste.

I've liked some and disliked some records from all of those guys.
And I've had experience where my records have been mixed by guys whose work I really respect and I've still, sometimes, been disappointed.
And sometimes it's been brilliant.

No doubt I've mixed records that some people think sound crappy.
(insert your snide comment here__________)

My strong reaction isn't about who I think is mostly good or mostly not that good.
It's more about the HYPE involved.

The implicit "I've got secret techniques" or "magic gear" that make my mixes a hit.

One of the reasons so many people don't often begrudge Bob Clearmountain his success is because he's so low hype.
He just sort of shrugs and says "I do what I do".
That's very much to his credit.
He's selling his TALENT, not his personna or his gear or his song-and-dance in any other way.



anyway...
why is it that magazines SO love numbers on their covers?
It's never  "things to do to look younger",
it's ALWAYS  "7 tricks to looking younger"


In the 5 things that will ruin your mix article, there's one I take strong exception to.
It's the idea that if you bounce down tracks to make a submix (to save tracks) YOU "NEED" to keep the original tracks separate somewhere.
So, Bohemian Rhapsody... if there weren't the traacks to keep the hundreds of vocals separate so they could rebalanced (by the "hit mixer" {g}) then I guess it must suck.
Cannot possibly be mixed properly.
No wonder it was never a hit.
Oh, wait...

Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: Otitis Media on March 22, 2005, 12:49:25 pm
wwittman wrote on Tue, 22 March 2005 12:42


So, Bohemian Rhapsody... if there weren't the traacks to keep the hundreds of vocals separate so they could rebalanced (by the "hit mixer" {g}) then I guess it must suck.
Cannot possibly be mixed properly.
No wonder it was never a hit.
Oh, wait...




Right - they committed to decisions as the production rolled on and it was a hit TWICE!
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: j.hall on March 22, 2005, 01:35:19 pm
i was avoiding this thread like the plague do to a recent circumstance that another moderator and i were dragged through (granted by our own doing.....)

but i couldn't resist adding a thought.

i agree with ross to a certain extent.  belittling a person for merely personal enjoyment reasons is pretty lame.  on the other hand.  we work in a professional industry, that is currently over flooded, where what we do for a living becomes public knowledge (hopefully) in that every one has a chance to hear it.

some get a more chances with bigger releases then others...granted.

BUT, i think it's a bit "PC" (which disgusts me) that we should feel obligated to sit idly by and merely clap for a peer that has seen sucess.  

calling a spade a spade is nothing new.  and honestly, i've gotten so sick and tired of professional audio forums being full to the gills with ambiguous posts with a bunch of tid bits of information always stopping just short of actually being useful.

if people in this thread are familiar with JJP's catalog, and even better....familiar with JJP himself, why can't they post what they think?

every person is entitled to an opinion (just ask fletcher what he thinks of opinions.....)

fact of the matter is, no one here has threatened to stab JJP.  no one here has threated to make sure the man never works another day in the music biz.

i'd even venture to say he probably couldn't care less what we have to say about him.

this is the internet, if you come on here and take anything too seriously that is not my fault.
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: jwhynot on March 22, 2005, 02:40:31 pm
I know JJP a little.  He's always been 100% a gentleman to me.

I like some, but not all of what he does - when it's good I really enjoy it.

I'm pretty much a shinehead, so I don't feel it's of much value for me to comment on other peoples' hair.  He may not have designed the magazine cover.

Of course people can say whatever they want, others can care as much as they want.  The forum world has as much value as you care to find in it.

From my chair, having a slag at someone makes forums like this less interesting.  They become sour-grapes festivals.  Or should I say, a whine festival.

You think he lucked or hyped his way to a run this long?  You're kidding yourselves.

If it's that easy why isn't everyone doing it?

JW
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: Fibes on March 22, 2005, 03:16:37 pm
As far as the mixer food chain is concerned my opinion is worthless.

That said, I was once told to never waste time putting someone down when I could spend my time pulling myself up. I don't pay any attention to EQ, it's minions or any of their ads passed off as editorial, I'm saddened that some of you do. Would I like to be asked to do a cover shoot/interview for the mag? Sure, but IMO our work is what we live and die by; not our client list, credits, magazine coverage or standing next to artists at the Scammies while they dish out vaccuous requisite thank yous...

So for now I'll just go back to being too busy to care. All this work without a single blip on the "mix-world" radar.

Gentleman, as you are... but first I have one word for ya'.

Grace


Personally i think the people who are there from the albion of the project do a more informed/genuine job at mixing the art end of things. Unfortunately for some of you the money end speaks much louder, I don't envy y'all, even as a drifting delusional proto-plankton.

Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 22, 2005, 03:42:24 pm
I think those of us who know JJP personally and dislike his work aren't really commenting on what we think of him personally.  I also don't think that any of us are saying that he lucked into his current position.  I observed as he did his first big assignments as a producer / engineer, namely Jellyfish and the Grays.  You can say that I watched him go from that guy to being this iconic figure.  By posting my comments about his work and this ridiculous magazine cover, I'm making two points: I personally think he gets a lot of undue reverance, and he has the exact same pose in every picture I've seen of him.  

My wife wound up in a couple magazines, including Us Weekly's "worst dressed of the year" page.  In one sense it was unfair that she wore a costume to a theme ball that was entirely appropriate for that event, but on its own looked ridiculous and was prone to ridicule.  However, we both knew that she willingly stood in front of the step and repeat board while she got her picture taken, and therefore she kind of ass-ked for it.  (Yes, you could see her entire ass crack in the outfit.)

Just like Dave Navarro sprawling across a console with no shirt on for this very same magazine, anybody engaging in steely eyed, seductive poses for a magazine read by gear geeks of the same sex  is begging for torment, and really needs to be reminded to not take themselves so fucking seriously.  While I'm doing it, I don't mind saying that I equate this particular career like the current loudness wars with CD levels.  Just because the record companies like it and demand it doesn't mean it's a good thing.

As far as glass houses go, I willingly put my head on the chopping block around here.  I post opinions and or examples of my work and leave myself open to all kinds of criticism and corrections.  How can I know what I think might be incorrect if I don't tell you what I think?  I actually invite criticism to an extent, because I think that everybody, even the jedi masters in our presence, should remain teachable, and I, being far from a guy who knows everything about our business, am willing to learn from trial and terror.  I would refuse to ever cloak myself in some mystical audio guru image or let myself be portrayed that way, and anybody who does that, while the real fucking geniuses tend to keep low profiles and humble attitudes, is selling you snake oil.

Oh, and the main reason I posted it?  I thought it was fucking hillarious and couldn't keep it to myself.
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: j.hall on March 22, 2005, 04:11:52 pm
J.J. wrote on Tue, 22 March 2005 14:42


As far as glass houses go, I willingly put my head on the chopping block around here.  I post opinions and or examples of my work and leave myself open to all kinds of criticism and corrections.  How can I know what I think might be incorrect if I don't tell you what I think?  


which is EXACTLY the reason i started this thread on my forum.

Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: Ross Hogarth on March 22, 2005, 06:45:57 pm
One of the reasons I took on and said yes to moderating a forum was to make a difference. I felt that the Internet forums had become a place that I had no interest in going to. I chose to say yes to be able to have the power to moderate, and help set the tone for it to be a safe place. A safe place for all opinions even the harsh ones but there is a balance.
I feel that when it crosses an imaginary line I step in.
beautifully perfect as it has been, I have not deleted or modified a post in months and months.
This is due I think to the commitment of us all to be aware of the shortcomings of going past the boundary of good taste
That all being said, I agree with most of what has been said here. I believe that it does not serve anybody to get into a slagfest, kinda regardless.
Leaving ourselves exposed is part of telling the truth, but in a productive way.
My opinion is that when I am complaining I either am complaining about something I am committed to changing and then stop complaining and move on  or just shut up..period ....
this is based in a productive constructive attitude
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 22, 2005, 07:04:36 pm
Well, I think we have all done a good job at not crossing the line.  I mean, as long as I don't show the pictures of Ross in a tutu, it's all good.
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: maxim on March 23, 2005, 02:37:09 am
i reckon it would be more productive if you told what it is that you find so offensive about jjp's work

you hinted that it might be overcompression, but, fwiw, i prefer his mxes of aimee mann's music to bob clearmountain's, or rather, they bring out different aspects of her music (she, herself, might prefer bob's, but what does she know?)

there's a not uniquely australian concept of 'the tall poppy syndrome', when people tend to knock those who get too high for their boots

i hope we're not seeing an example of that disturbing practice here

having seen ross in the flesh, i'm sure he'd look great in a tutu

cheers
max
paris, france
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 23, 2005, 03:49:22 am
Over compression isn't what bothers me.  I just think the mixes tend to be too crowded.  Not everything has to be audible in the mix, as far as I'm concerned.  There are certain things that affect the song that you might not notice until they are muted, when you realise they are gone.  I also don't care for numerous instruments taking up the full sonic range so that the bass, the guitar, the vocals, the keys, etc are not clearly defined from each other.  Electric guitars don't need to capture everything from 50hz on up.  50hz is the bass's job.  Let the guitar give you the texture and the harmonic content, and properly blended with a good bass sound, it will appear to have lots of low end.  And then you don't need a lot of high mids in the bass, if the kick drum is properly supporting the bass, etc.  

A great example of one of these mixes that I find to be muddy and messy is Jason Falkner's "She Goes To Bed".  But the most important thing is that this mix completely loses the sense of the song and doesn't translate the emotion.  We have talked about recordings like Al Green's, which sound like ass, but just fucking kill you with the vibe, soul and emotion of the performance, because Terry was aware of which part of the song's content was the most important: The vibe not the fidelity.

For some more recent JJP examples, I think he does a decent job of the type of separation I described above on the Stereophonics "Madame Helga" while the drums are riding the toms, and it's just bass, guitar and vox.  But when everything kinda kicks in, I feel like my ears are being gangbanged.  It's like a sonic bukakke, and somebody spooged all over my stereo. (Sorry for the graphic description.  Like I said in Klaus's forum, I had too much FZ at a tender age.)

Personally, I think that the sonic ear cramming and insensitivity to the emotional content of a song are long standing traits of his, and I sometimes wonder if having all that fucking gear just makes it worse.  Case in point, I remember when they were tracking the Grays record and he threw up a really quick rough on the Neve 8038 console over at Music Grinder for me of one of the songs and manually rode the faders.  It was amazing.  Powerful, dynamic and sentimental.  Then, when the CD was done and I listened to that same song, I was like "what the fuck happened to that cool vibe that was on the raw tracks"?  

Does that answer your question?  I'm not saying that every mix he has done sucks or that he's a bad mixer.  I just don't think he's worthy of the hype that the pro audio press gives him or the reverance that A&R idiots have for him.  It's like watching the Halliburton of mixing automatically get the no bid contracts while tons of guys will do better work for cheaper, and in less time.  I'm just the guy who speaks my mind about whoever rubs me the wrong way, I guess.  Go to Ross's forum and read what I think about Clive, for an example.  I guess this is what happens when you marry a Jersey girl ... you tell people more than you maybe should.  LOL.  But then again, being a straight shooter means that I usually only have fellow straight shooters around me, and in a place like Hollywood, there's nothing more important than sorting the chicken shit from the shicken salad. No?
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: maxim on March 23, 2005, 05:42:00 am
fair enough

i agree with everything you say

i guess, sometimes it works, other times it doesn't

there's certainly a distinct lack of subtlety in his work

"sonic bukkake", eh?

not a pretty sight
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: Dennis Allen Cupp on March 23, 2005, 08:55:50 am
Sorry guys, dont care if he is King Dick.

Anyone who put their hands on BOTH Jellyfish CD's is considered a God to me.

As for the pose, yes i agree with the above quote about "A Spoon", which is one of the best Over the TOP lines from a 90's film.

Who cares how he poses.........just listen to "Spilt Milk" and then comment.

When i grow up, i want to have his resume AND his control room!

Dennis

Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: wwittman on March 23, 2005, 02:28:59 pm
Ahh, this sort of makes a point for me...
NO disrespect intended, but do you really want his "resume and control room" or his "talent"?

if it's the former, then he's successfully sold you the mystique.

If the reason something sounds so good is a collection of equipment, I think that says something.
It feeds into the idea that you can BUY great sound and don't need technique or experience or taste.
A good paradigm for a magazine.
But not one I buy into.

A few other points:

I can like a hair band's music and still hate the hair and spandex.

If the record company suggests that you take your cover photo with you in bed with a clown, a REAL artiste says "no".
Same rules apply to magazine covers.
Otherwise, if the floppy shoes fit...


I think I'm going to call my next record Sonic Bukkake.
No clowns will appear on the cover.
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: maxim on March 23, 2005, 03:21:08 pm
if you're going to call it 'sonic bukkake', you'll need at least a dozen clowns in bed with you
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: maxim on March 23, 2005, 03:22:35 pm
i just read that back to myself and shuddered
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: Dennis Allen Cupp on March 23, 2005, 04:08:50 pm
NO NO, No disrepect understood.

I LIKE his work, EXPECIALLY on both Jellyfish CD's.
I'd love to have the experience he has had with many influential bands (His resume).
And who among us would NOT want his control room? Equipemnt and Tapistries and all?

I love the Way TLA smashed the Spymob album, where as others didnt.
I love the way JJP mixed the Jellyfish cd's but also his work with No Doubt is nice.

If i had a band today, i think i'd choose CLA to mix it...personally. Not as smashed as his borthers work, but still powerful.
A great album to check out is Jimmy's Chicken Shack "Bring your own Stereo" it has the Lord-Alges mixing against each other.
Before you look at the liner notes, listen...see if you can identify who's mix each song is.

I love digital, i love compression. So sue me.
I DO believe some albums are smashed to oblivion and ruined, but i think others benefit from mass compression.
Kevin Gilbert's THUD is a Compression masterpiece and kicks MAJOR ass.

I think JJP's work is respectable. Who cares if he poses for a magazine cover...Jealous?

I find the cover of Mix where his control room is in full view...simply arousing! and its absent JJP in the picture.

Dennis

wwittman wrote on Wed, 23 March 2005 19:28

Ahh, this sort of makes a point for me...
NO disrespect intended, but do you really want his "resume and control room" or his "talent"?

if it's the former, then he's successfully sold you the mystique.

If the reason something sounds so good is a collection of equipment, I think that says something.
It feeds into the idea that you can BUY great sound and don't need technique or experience or taste.
A good paradigm for a magazine.
But not one I buy into.

A few other points:

I can like a hair band's music and still hate the hair and spandex.

If the record company suggests that you take your cover photo with you in bed with a clown, a REAL artiste says "no".
Same rules apply to magazine covers.
Otherwise, if the floppy shoes fit...


I think I'm going to call my next record Sonic Bukkake.
No clowns will appear on the cover.

Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: cgc on March 23, 2005, 04:23:49 pm
DennisC wrote on Wed, 23 March 2005 07:55


Who cares how he poses.........just listen to "Spilt Milk" and then comment.



That record sounds like very well produced Queen and ELO knock-offs.  It's mixing doesn't elevate it above that to me.

What else has Edward Mixerhands done?
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: CCC on March 23, 2005, 04:45:35 pm
cgc wrote on Wed, 23 March 2005 21:23



That record sounds like very well produced Queen and ELO knock-offs.  It's mixing doesn't elevate it above that to me.

What else has Edward Mixerhands done?


please. stop. this. it. embarrasses. us. all. enough. slagging. jjp. please....

(read as though William Shatner was speaking)

Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: JackJohnston on March 23, 2005, 11:54:40 pm
Quote:


That record sounds like very well produced Queen and ELO knock-offs. It's mixing doesn't elevate it above that to me.



That's quite a compliment in a strange way.

I really like the unshelved sound of his mixing. It works for the bands he works with. I agree that his style of mixing sounds more smeared than most pop albums, but not nearly as smeared as most rock albums. The Muse album Mixed by Rich Costey is totally over the top "Sonic Bukkake", but it sounds great. Compared to it, No doubt, Wallflowers, Verve Pipe, etc, are very in the pocket mixes.

JJ, I think your style of mixing is way more pocket styled, like Bob Clearmountains. I think that part of the reason he gets so much work is because his mixing is very stylized, and somewhat out of the pocket, but it's still very pop.

And, just like every other industry, knowing how to market yourself is a huge part of your ability to get work.

Jack



Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: maxim on March 24, 2005, 12:36:08 am
i guess, some of the trouble, is that it sounds exciting and overwhelming when you first hear it, but it can leave you feeling a little dirty afterwards, just like bukkake

even though i really enjoyed the muse record, i find myself leaving it on the shelf more often than not (same with jjp's aimee mann record)

maybe, it's because i'm an old guts, but i like peace and quiet more and more (with my cookies and milk)
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: Dennis Allen Cupp on March 24, 2005, 07:47:02 am
I am sure Manning and company would take that as the ultimate complement and agree with you.

THAT was the intention of those discs. Dont forget who they hired to produce the stuff. THey were looking for THAT style in mixing and producing. In articles with Alhby, he mentioned the first thing He and JJP did before EVER printing a note on tape was to pull out Sgt Pepper and listen to it from top to bottom.
Manning admits they went thru a zillion assistants on that disc.


Its NOT the biggest album ever (sonics), its not the most compressed. Its actually a very dynamic album.
If its not your bag, then thats cool.

I think they pulled that 70's vibe thing off completly originally..while sounding hauntingly familiar. That had to do with the artist, songs, but also the SOUNDS too.

Oddly enough they were ahead of thier time...while doing retro...sort of a Back to the Future type thing. Meanwhile, 10 years later the 70's retro phase is in style.

Dennis

cgc wrote on Wed, 23 March 2005 21:23

DennisC wrote on Wed, 23 March 2005 07:55


Who cares how he poses.........just listen to "Spilt Milk" and then comment.



That record sounds like very well produced Queen and ELO knock-offs.  It's mixing doesn't elevate it above that to me.

What else has Edward Mixerhands done?

Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: Ross Hogarth on March 24, 2005, 08:40:48 am
To put this topic in perspective for me
I would like to timeline a bit
whether we are talking of JJP or me or joeblow
as the last 5 years have crept up to us
we are in the age of the ability to have 192 tracks of information inside the box
that is insane
at the Record Plant in '94 we were mixing Quincy Jones "Back on the Block" and had to bring in an extra desk to add to the 96 channels of SSL so we could get the 3rd Sony 48 track back somewhere
This was extraordinary to me at the time and the amount of manpower to actually do it was huge
this was so we could break out horns and sound effects and tracks that had been sub-mixed over time
Now, I just tell my system to add voices
POINT being that we are now more than ever cramming much more information into the sonic space and it can only hold so much
some mixers actually try to honor the original recording and try and use it all
some become mix Nazis and just take it upon themselves to use what they want
in the end
no right or wrong just styles
at the forefront of this is the over recording being done on a daily basis with little restraint since the technology allows it
as a mixer, one has to really put on an editing hat quite often to not serve up
"brown soup" or "sonic bukkake" you guys have said
for me a lot of mixers these days are using buss compression as a way of not having to take the extra day or 2 days to weed through and balance and eq the mix
if they just put up the wall
then the mix in the end is easier , faster and for some of these guys
more lucrative , since time is money
in my experience, JJP likes his compression, but he also will take the time to sort through every track and try and honor the recording, right or wrong , good or bad
this cannot be said for all and in the end , we of little restraint are to be blamed for bringing in ten tons of shit for the mixer to handle
as far the lemming approach to hiring mixers that the a&r community has
i just leave it be
if i had my way
we would invite a huge portion of the executive community of the record business today to a far away planet where they can speak martian to alien beings, because that is how much sense they make to me  
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: Fletcher on March 24, 2005, 08:42:16 am
J.J. wrote on Tue, 22 March 2005 08:30

Fletcher, as much as the Alge's mutate somebody's tracks, I have to say that their mixes have usually sounded better and clearer to me than JJP's.  Their stuff may be overly bright and overly compressed, but one of my complaints with JJP is that his mixes tend to be too busy, too crowded and it seems like he only listened to each instrument on its own while EQing and compressing, and then threw all the faders up disregarding what steps on what. But that is just how I hear it.


Interesting.

Personally I was pretty ambivilent about JJP's work... it seemed competent to me... but then I heard a copy of Hole's "Celebrity Skin" on which there were mixes by CLA [and maybe even TLA... but as far as I can tell they're absolutely interchangable] and a mix by JJP.

The JJP mix was so much more open and full of life and emotion than the CLA mixes... had a more expressive bottom, an open and airy top, captured the essence of the song better as far as I was concerned... and most importantly, it made me want to listen to the song... it drew me into the presentation.

To me, this, if anything, is what a "mixer" should be focusing on... and while I could really take or leave that particular album, I thought the difference in mixers was palpable.

On another note... JJP did some remixes of some "Sparklehorse" stuff that uttlerly floored me... but as always... YMMV.
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 24, 2005, 11:53:01 am
I'm not always crazy about the Alge's, btw.  I think they are very hit or miss, for reasons I won't go into.  I'm not so sure that they deserve their reputation with A&R people as the "go-to" guys to mix your single, especially at those rates.  However, they have done some shit that has blown me away, and they have done some shit that was well ... shit.
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: Dennis Allen Cupp on March 24, 2005, 01:30:01 pm
JJ,
Love the image with your name. That is one of my all time favorite movies!

Highlight of my L.A. trip in 2001...was bowling where "The Dude" once abode! Because you know, the dude abides! And being a Nihilist is VERY exhausting!  and as for Bunny L.....whoa! I'm heading for the teller machine too! (If this make no sense to anyone reading it....go RENT the DVD The Big Lebowski...ONE STELLAR FILM!)

One of my Favorite all time JJP works is the FIRST Taxiride album.
Some think its too smashed. I think its the RIGHT mix for the material.
I think the production is spot on as well, not too busy at all.

Have you heard this disc?

Dennis
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: wwittman on March 24, 2005, 01:53:16 pm
I wonder who thinks Sgt. Pepper would have been a better record if the A&R dept had insisted they send it out to an outside mixer who "mixes hits" and "has more perspective"?

I agree with Ross about the trend to over recording.. and I think in PART at least, that if the guys who were recording 4 tracks of surround dripping water, with and without flanging effect, knew they had to sit there and MIX the thing into the record they were supposedly hired to make, they might be a little more inclined to make some decisions... or at least to make sure it actually sounded like something instead of a collection of "ideas".


I like some of JJP's work.
I like some of the Lord-Alge's work (more often Chris').

It's the overarching concept that irks me.
I've seen records mixed OUT of being hits.. but I don't believe a record can be mixed INTO being one.
And I don't think there's any magical mystical technique that is "now" or "radio" or whatever the hype is.
The guy is either good at putting it all toegther or he's not.
The rest is marketing voodoo.
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: Fibes on March 24, 2005, 02:05:03 pm
wwittman wrote on Thu, 24 March 2005 13:53

I wonder who thinks Sgt. Pepper would have been a better record if the A&R dept had insisted they send it out to an outside mixer who "mixes hits" and "has more perspective"?



Precisely.

My last post was a bit heavyhanded, I apologise if i came across as holier than thou.

That said, I hate you all, the guns are aimed and ready, so don't screw up, 'cause there's a bunch of 60mm cannons aimed at you... heh heh...


Call me old fashioned but i still think a record is best left in the hands of the team that travelled the journey from step one.


WW-  Great point about the "overtracking/we don't have to mix it crew." lately it seems there is more emphasis on Fixing, sifting and less on mixing due to "unlimited tracks."

Make some fucking decisions people, that's what real artists do. you never saw Monet hiring finishers to sand layers off his paintings after they dried...


Vision...
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 24, 2005, 02:29:52 pm
Kehew was telling me about going through the 2" masters of a certain classic album recently, and if you threw up everything at 0db, you essentially had the mix you heard on the album, minus panning.  I want to be that good.
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: Fibes on March 24, 2005, 05:58:10 pm
J.J. wrote on Thu, 24 March 2005 14:29

Kehew was telling me about going through the 2" masters of a certain classic album recently, and if you threw up everything at 0db, you essentially had the mix you heard on the album, minus panning.  I want to be that good.


Yeah, i've noticed it's harder to get there when you aren't tracking everything through a desk. I remember riding faders during vocal takes and now with the whole outboard pre thing into a DAW it's a lot harder to get the fader in line. Using one desk and a finite number of tracks always forced the issue of printing "in the now." Instead of three+ discrete mics for each RTM guitar into the DAW it was always a mono or stereo mix going to tape.
Fletcher has talked about basically giving stereo stems to "after the fact" mixers like L/R RTM GTRS, L/R drums etc. Seems like that's one way of (somewhat) locking in the original vision, although i'm sure it ain't the best for team morale. Then again if it works noone should be complaining.  
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: Etch-A-Sketch on March 24, 2005, 06:48:23 pm
J.J. wrote on Thu, 24 March 2005 11:29

Kehew was telling me about going through the 2" masters of a certain classic album recently, and if you threw up everything at 0db, you essentially had the mix you heard on the album, minus panning.  I want to be that good.


I have to wonder about this though...Is it really the multitrack masters, or is it a flattened multitrack 2" of the mix?  Where did he get the 2" reel from?  Just curious...



Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 24, 2005, 09:43:54 pm
Well, Brian has mentioned it in this forum, so I don't think I'm talking out of school, here.  Brian is given original masters to do mixes of extra tracks or outtakes when certain albums are rereleased.  I'm not jealous of JJP, I'm jealous of Brian!  

Me: "What are you doing?"
Brian: "I'm going through original (insert one of the following) Peter Green era Fleetwood Mac / Curtis Mayfield / Yes / David Bowie / (others I'm not allowed to mention in here) masters."
Me: "I hate you.  Can I be your friend?"
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: Otitis Media on March 25, 2005, 07:13:52 am
No kidding!  I wish I had a job that cool.  I get to work on mixes for video projects that are streamed on the web.  Audio?  What's that?  And then there's the matter of this one little song I've been playing with just to get my chops up, but the singer drives my wife NUTS so I have to stop with that one soon...

To be fair to JJP - I think his work is great on the whole.  He's out of my league skill-wise, I think.  

Dan
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: compasspnt on March 25, 2005, 09:56:10 pm
Otitis Media wrote on Fri, 25 March 2005 07:13



To be fair to JJP ...He's out of my league skill-wise, I think.  

Dan



Perhaps, but then there's the human being-wise side of things...
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: Bill Mueller on March 27, 2005, 09:30:29 am
I wonder about the 2" your talking about. Is this an original? Or is it a mix dupe.

I have worked with producers who tried to track that way, but we always ended up compromising on the individual tracks for signal to noise and distortion. In other words, on one song I might drive the drums hotter for a bit of tape compression, while on another I lower them for high end fidelity but acknowledge the added tape noise.

The "0db at the mix faders" view of tracking assumes the analog recorder is an infinite, high fidelity storage device, not the smudgy, limited band pass, highly distorted box we know and love.

As a matter of fact, because of its greater dynamic range and lower distortion and noise, a DAW could offer this type of environment BETTER than a traditional 2" analog machine/mixing console setup. Just set one of your loudest instruments, (pick one, I would use a bass guitar) to say, six or ten db under clipping on your 24/96 or 192 DAW and then with your mix faders all set to 0, mix from the tracking side.

As a caveat, this approach would not include any volume changes that might need to occur after the tracking stage. Thats also why I think your friend may have a mix dupe.

Best Regards,

Bill
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: wwittman on March 27, 2005, 09:39:14 am
I'm not saying that literally the faders are in a line and the mix is mixed..
but on really well produced and recorded records, you can literally push the faders up with your elbow and it sounds LIKE the record.. the clarity is there, the character is there... it's just an obvious matter of making the vocal louder and the guitars lower, etc. and then it's THERE.
but you can hear it straight away.


It doesn't get "made" in the mix.

Some VERY older school guys did get so stuck in their 4 track and 8 track methods that even into the many multi-track days they still balanced the tracks on the tape so that it LITERALLY was every fader at '0'.. but that's not what I was talking about.
THAT, I quite agree, sacrifices signal to noise at the very least.
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 27, 2005, 12:58:53 pm
I was thinking about this thread yesterday, as I went by to visit Jason Falkner at his studio.  Jason, of course, was in the Grays, and had JJP mix portions of his two solo records for Neglektra.  I had told him about the thread and about my story with how Jack's mix with just the 24 track, the 8038, some EQ and him playing the faders killed over the final album version.  We agreed that having too many toys and too many options can be a bad thing.  

He had once told me that he didn't want to produce himself again, because he plays so many instruments brilliantly, and plays everything on his albums himself, he thought the songs got muddled in too many things going on, etc.  The he played me a track he just did that was classic a Jason Falkner demo.  I have always loved his demos, even the really lo-fi ones.  It sounded so great, even though he doesn't have the most amazing rig, he knows how to get really cool sounds from what he has.  He doesn't need to have every mic pre or compressor under the sun to get a sound that works for the track.  I mean, even the tom sounds were really cool and he was just using SM57s.  I told him that I think he should continue to produce himself, but use no more than 16 tracks this time.  LOL.  

This, of course, goes back to what some of us are talking about.  Use some discipline when you track and envision the final mix.  Pink Floyd records and the way they made their records are a really great example of this.  In these days of unlimited tracks and being able to automate EQs in PT, etc., it gets to easy to see, let's throw everything at the wall and see what sticks in mixing.  God bless the poor mixing engineers who decide to eliminate things when we producers overindulge the artist or get bogged down in our own indecision.  Nick Launay was telling me that they tracked the Semi Sonic record with all kinds of production, and Bob Clearmountain made it a guitar, bass and drums record.  Nick thought that it actually worked really great like that.  Anyway, I digress ... as usual.

BTW, thank you for mentioning sacrificing signal to noise.  I've often wondered about the wisdom recording everything with faders at 0db for that very reason.
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: Otitis Media on March 27, 2005, 03:02:29 pm
compasspnt wrote on Fri, 25 March 2005 21:56

Otitis Media wrote on Fri, 25 March 2005 07:13



To be fair to JJP ...He's out of my league skill-wise, I think.  

Dan



Perhaps, but then there's the human being-wise side of things...


Surely by now you've noticed that I'm an asshole? Razz
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: drumsound on March 27, 2005, 04:57:09 pm
I don't even know if I should add to this thread.  There' a lot of things happening and I have thoughts though....

Firstly I agree with JJ, the EQ cover looks really [Chicago Italian accent] stoopid! [/accent]

I also think the Grays' record sounds odd.  I think many things were EQ and compressed in SOLO.  I think that is a bad idea in general.  I also thin the method of EQ on that record is to find the "most important" frequency slice and boost the crap out of it and cut everything else.  Besides for most of the vocals and a few guitar parts I find the sounds very odd and not musical.  BUT, I really love the record because its full of great songs performed by great musicians.

I'm also totally on board with William.  Records should be mixed by the engineer/producer who made them in the first place.  I often know certain things that will happen in a mix well before I'm at that stage.  If I hand the record off, how do I know that those things will happen?  I do commit a lot of things to tape.  I want an odd, pointy guitar, I set up that sound in the room and then record it that way.  But I try to get a good level to tape for S/N ratio even if I know it will be low in the mix.  An outside mixer might crank that part and change the whole feel it was meant to add to the mix.

I like having 24-tracks.  I also like not even using them all.  Unlimited tracks and long record lengths are not helping our industry for the most part.  There are exceptions to the rule of course and I don't think that these things a bad in and of themselves, but I think they help 5-8% of the time and detract 92-98% of the time.  2% of the time they're just right.  

To address J Hall, Ross and others, I also agree that we shouldn't spend our time making broad stroked "this guy sucks" comments, but I have no problem with informed, specific criticisms (of me, my work or choices or of others).
Title: Re: want to mix your record!
Post by: strawberrius on March 27, 2005, 05:36:54 pm
i have produced/recorded songs mixed by most of the big dogs. in some cases, i chose who would mix and in others, the label chose. you have to remember that not all producers/engineers are even allowed to mix their own records these days (even if they are excellent at it). especially when those records get up into the competitive "million seller" category. but in the last several years i have become real good at printing the sounds and FX that i want in the final mix. there actually is an art to preparing Protools Files for these guys.

for instance, TLA & CLA want essentially "block audio" with no plugins whatsoever.  in JJP's case, he likes to get the PT session as i last had it... plugins/drum samples/unconsolidated fades and all. I'm in the middle of mixing several different artists with clearmountain right now and he is cool enuff to throw in the 5.1 mix at the same time.

i love to mix and essentially do mix every project on ProTools b4 i send it to these guys.  but.....
i must say after working on a grueling album for 3 months, the last thing i want to do is mix it/open up that can of worms.... so i'm all in favor of other people mixing my records.  and all of the above have been excellent at working with me and my mix comments (including a/b'ing to my protools 'ruff' mix). in the end it usually makes for a happier artist, producer & label.

just my 2 cents.

-jrf
Title: Re: want to mix your record!
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 27, 2005, 07:13:13 pm
- jrf, the great thing about Bob is that you can have a lot of input into the mix session, whereas the LAs have a reputation for not caring what you think.

BTW, since we all agree this picture is ridiculous, I stumbled upon the issue with Dave Navarro, shirtless lying on an SSL.  There's an editor at EQ who clearly would rather be working at Honcho.  I'll scan and post it later.  Dave is a nice guy, but I'm sure would be the first to admit that he can be a rockstar, so I'll post it, as a friend, in hopes that he says, "What was I thinking?  This is a magazine that guys read."
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: RMoore on March 28, 2005, 03:46:20 am
FWIW - speaking about outside mixers,
I did once work on a project as a muso where the recording engineer just rocked in getting great sounds, being part of the vibe, being a creative editing hero etc etc & when it came to doing some mixes it was obvious it was just not 'there'..I was surprised by that,
Anyway, a 3rd party was brought in to mix and he did a great job, taking it to the next level..
The orig engineer did the final mastering BTW..
So in that case the tag team approach really did make the trax & album the best it could be..
I do appreciate though that it had a lot to do with this <particular> mixer and his connection to the music and the people doing the project (not meaning croneyism but being on the same 'wavelength'), in short being the perfect man for the job  eg: just hiring in 'a mixer' or sending it to LA to run through 100 compressor channels or whatever would have ruined dinner,,.
Title: Re: want to mix your record!
Post by: JackJohnston on March 28, 2005, 07:03:42 am
J.J. wrote on Sun, 27 March 2005 16:13

-

BTW, since we all agree this picture is ridiculous, I stumbled upon the issue with Dave Navarro, shirtless lying on an SSL.  There's an editor at EQ who clearly would rather be working at Honcho.  I'll scan and post it later.  Dave is a nice guy, but I'm sure would be the first to admit that he can be a rockstar, so I'll post it, as a friend, in hopes that he says, "What was I thinking?  This is a magazine that guys read."


At least that might attract more of the ladies to the industry.

Jack
Title: Re: want to mix your record!
Post by: stevieeastend on March 28, 2005, 07:54:58 am
strawberrius wrote on Sun, 27 March 2005 23:36


i love to mix and essentially do mix every project on ProTools b4 i send it to these guys.  but.....
i must say after working on a grueling album for 3 months, the last thing i want to do is mix it/open up that can of worms.... so i'm all in favor of other people mixing my records. in the end it usually makes for a happier artist, producer & label.

-jrf


I can second that. I wish there would be more affordable, good guys around my area... Mixing, after months of arranging, playing and producing (because that?s  90% of my job), can be really a hard time. Everyone?s finally happy with the takes, arrangements, sound etc. and than there is this kind of relief from the artists side..... "think we made it, just mix and let go... .. JUST mix it.... I wish it would be that simple....

cheers
steveeastend
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: Fibes on March 28, 2005, 09:16:34 am
FWIW i think the photos previously mentioned are stoopid, that said, as a visual artist i understand how this shit can happen.

I recall the album cover shoot for Blue Tomorrow from the Swimming Pool Qs. it's one of the most freakishly embarrassing photos i've ever seen. this is the story of how it happened...

Photo shoot, band members/label hire an ol' timey carnival, set up the shot and all dress in white so that they stand out amidst the animals, freaks, clowns, mix engineers etc. The shoot takes most of the day, millions of rolls of film are burned and the band is happy with the polaroids they've seen. After a full 8 hour day they are hanging around talking with the carny folk and thanking them for being so patient while the female singer is petting a little white pony. Suddenly the photog notices that the white dress and pony match so he assembles the band for a quick photo with the pony for a possible promo shot "just because." They take the remaining last two or three pictures on the roll and all go home.





















What happens next?

The album is released with the Pony photo on the cover, the band looks tired, dorky and the bassists head is all caddywampus because in the era before photshop they had to cut and paste his head from the previous shoot onto his body because his eyes were closed. The band had no say in the process because their idea was  "too brainy."

My point?  Dave and JJP may have been put in the same "hit them when they're ready to go" ambush that allows even brilliant minds to be caught at their worst.

Or they really are self important pretensious pompous asses, but i'm not gonna decide from way down here.

Those without regret have done nothing.
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 28, 2005, 09:25:40 am
Well, to be fair to Dave, he doesn't give the "Blue Steel" in every photo I've seen of him.  But both Dave and JJP do the same thing to me, which is acknowledge me only half the time I run into them.  However, after getting pissed about this over and over, I learned years later that with Dave, it's because he's blind as a bat and won't wear his glasses often.  He just didn't recognize me.  LOL.
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: JackJohnston on March 28, 2005, 03:46:58 pm
Don't hate Dave because he's beautiful, hate him because he's married to Carmen Electra. I'd probably pose like that for every picture ever taken if I looked like Dave Navarro, rather than a cross between Scott Peterson and Randy Couture. At the family reunion, "Wait, I need to take my shirt off and wet my hair".

Jack

Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: compasspnt on March 28, 2005, 11:06:01 pm
JackJohnston wrote on Mon, 28 March 2005 15:46

...hate him because he's married to Carmen Electra...




That's his problem!  Dennis Rodman's leftovers...?
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: compasspnt on March 29, 2005, 12:10:25 am
Fibes wrote on Mon, 28 March 2005 09:16



My point?  Dave and JJP may have been put in the same "hit them when they're ready to go" ambush that allows even brilliant minds to be caught at their worst.

Or they really are self important pretensious pompous asses, but i'm not gonna decide from way down here.



I actually know the answer in at least one of the cases.
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: Dennis Allen Cupp on March 29, 2005, 08:03:25 am
JJ,
Although i disagree...somewhat...on your JJP views. The fact you hang out with Falkner is too cool for school.
Tell him to ditch the TV eyes crap and get back to makin solo cd's again!

I DO AGREE on 'She Goes to Bed', the bass guitar is very overwhelming. And his Demos DO ROCK! The japaneese imports are the best!

I am part of a Jellyfish/Falkner DVD trading tree. And i have about 4 performances of Jason at various British record stores, with just him and an Acoustic Guitar. To watch him 'remmeber' "Both Belong" is simply mindblowing. He plays it as if he'd never forgotten it. Jason is an Unsung songwriter...and he needs to give us MORE music.
The new EP is good, but its only 5 songs.

Falkner is the BOMB!!!!!!!!!

Dennis

J.J. wrote on Sun, 27 March 2005 18:58

I was thinking about this thread yesterday, as I went by to visit Jason Falkner at his studio.  Jason, of course, was in the Grays, and had JJP mix portions of his two solo records for Neglektra.  I had told him about the thread and about my story with how Jack's mix with just the 24 track, the 8038, some EQ and him playing the faders killed over the final album version.  We agreed that having too many toys and too many options can be a bad thing.  

He had once told me that he didn't want to produce himself again, because he plays so many instruments brilliantly, and plays everything on his albums himself, he thought the songs got muddled in too many things going on, etc.  The he played me a track he just did that was classic a Jason Falkner demo.  I have always loved his demos, even the really lo-fi ones.  It sounded so great, even though he doesn't have the most amazing rig, he knows how to get really cool sounds from what he has.  He doesn't need to have every mic pre or compressor under the sun to get a sound that works for the track.  I mean, even the tom sounds were really cool and he was just using SM57s.  I told him that I think he should continue to produce himself, but use no more than 16 tracks this time.  LOL.  

This, of course, goes back to what some of us are talking about.  Use some discipline when you track and envision the final mix.  Pink Floyd records and the way they made their records are a really great example of this.  In these days of unlimited tracks and being able to automate EQs in PT, etc., it gets to easy to see, let's throw everything at the wall and see what sticks in mixing.  God bless the poor mixing engineers who decide to eliminate things when we producers overindulge the artist or get bogged down in our own indecision.  Nick Launay was telling me that they tracked the Semi Sonic record with all kinds of production, and Bob Clearmountain made it a guitar, bass and drums record.  Nick thought that it actually worked really great like that.  Anyway, I digress ... as usual.

BTW, thank you for mentioning sacrificing signal to noise.  I've often wondered about the wisdom recording everything with faders at 0db for that very reason.

Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 29, 2005, 09:44:43 am
Well, considering that we recorded most of TV Eyes here, and had a really great time doing it, I'm not so sure that I would call it crap.  Especially since I still want somebody to release it so I can get paid, finally!  LOL.  I don't know if you've only seen the shows, but I'm the only person outside of the group with copies of the original mixes, before Brian sound replaced all the drums, and it's much more punk rock.  I think that "She's a Study" is one of Jason's best songs.

I actually mastered the Japanese CDs, if you can believe that.  "His Train" is probably my favorite on that, if not one of my all time favs.  

Just so you know though, Jason just got new management and will be resuming his solo career.  We've got some plans to do some mixes together (meaning JJP won't get near it), and I can't wait.  I really love his music.
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: compasspnt on March 29, 2005, 10:21:33 am
J.J. wrote on Tue, 29 March 2005 09:44

Jason just got new management and will be resuming his solo career.  We've got some plans to do some mixes together (meaning JJP won't get near it), and I can't wait.  I really love his music.


Sometimes there is good news.
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: Dennis Allen Cupp on March 29, 2005, 12:03:11 pm
JJ,
I'm an 80's child. I grew up (formative years) in the 70's but my teen years were all about the 80's. Not much i would want to see rehashed from the 80's. Expecially the stiff synth pop that TV Eyes nails. I'm all over Devo and Gary Newman, just not sure a rebirth of that stuff is a worth while endevour. I just didnt feel the TV eyes songs were very strong, compared to "Author Unknown" and "Can you still Feel".

The best track on the TV Eyes is the last track, which is instrumenal. As for the others, i just dont like it.
Now, hear me out. I never meant to call it CRAP in the conventional sense. I was requesting that he drop it and get back to work on some solo stuff.

You mastered the 2 CD Import? Kudos to you! I simply LOVE what he did to "Burning Airlines". and the Demos...well, i admire ANYONE who puts out their demos for all to see. AND i agree with you that even though they are not made from the Best gear in the world, he really does get milage out of prosumer gear.

So, do you know the story behind "Holiday" on "Can you Still Feel", where it intros with an Airline radio stating "Are we clear for Take off?" ? I'd like to get the story, if there is one, behind that.
Pound for Pound i like Can you still Feel to Author Unknown, but AA does have some STRONG moments.

....and for that, i baked you a cake!

Dennis


J.J. wrote on Tue, 29 March 2005 15:44

Well, considering that we recorded most of TV Eyes here, and had a really great time doing it, I'm not so sure that I would call it crap.  Especially since I still want somebody to release it so I can get paid, finally!  LOL.  I don't know if you've only seen the shows, but I'm the only person outside of the group with copies of the original mixes, before Brian sound replaced all the drums, and it's much more punk rock.  I think that "She's a Study" is one of Jason's best songs.

I actually mastered the Japanese CDs, if you can believe that.  "His Train" is probably my favorite on that, if not one of my all time favs.  

Just so you know though, Jason just got new management and will be resuming his solo career.  We've got some plans to do some mixes together (meaning JJP won't get near it), and I can't wait.  I really love his music.

Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 29, 2005, 03:12:29 pm
As promised, Dave Navarro displays his total recall technique.
index.php/fa/903/0/
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: maxim on March 29, 2005, 03:16:27 pm
he does the vocal rides with his penis

now, i know why they they call it cock-rock
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: rankus on March 30, 2005, 12:18:16 pm
'
'
Boy, do I feel sorry for the next session coming in to use that console! Shocked
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: zboy2854 on March 30, 2005, 04:53:21 pm
JJ, the fact that you hang with Jason Falkner means I must now hate you, you lucky bastard.  If there were any justice in this world HE would be a massive star and John Mayer would be just another overly sensitive obscure singer/songwriter.

Has Jason shared any details of his recording sessions with Paul McCartney?  If ever there was a musician born to play with Paul, Jason's it!
Title: Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 30, 2005, 07:39:38 pm
Well, Jason did the Paul sessions with James Gadson on drums.  Cool, eh?

I will tell you one thing about those session, Jason has fucking balls.  Not only did he give Paul copies of his Bedtime With the Beatles CDs, he sat there and listened to them with Paul.  Mac sent him a letter telling him how much he enjoys the records, even.  

And yes, I agree.  If there were any justice, Jason would get at least as much if not more recognition than John Mayer, Let alone Jon Brion.  I think that while Jon is a better multi-instrumentalist, Jason is a far better songwriter and producer (and he doesn't take five years to make a record).