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R/E/P => Mastering Dynamics => Topic started by: KAyo on March 08, 2014, 11:07:37 am

Title: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: KAyo on March 08, 2014, 11:07:37 am
Ello Wumpers!

This is where we explore the MUSIC, the Mastering and the approaches!

Walk us through your observations on the listening and the process you undertook to create your master.

Express, as you see fit.
Thank you.

KAyo
** **  ** **  ** **  ** **  ** **
Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: Hermetech Mastering on March 08, 2014, 12:30:44 pm
Er, there's only one other master in my "Group" folder on Dropbox? Wasn't the deadline the tenth?
Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: KAyo on March 08, 2014, 12:53:27 pm
Yeah, I too noticed that. More should upload by tomorrow. This page is up, only in readiness for the conversation to come.

I have been listening to all six masters. Comments to follow.

Thank you
KAyo
Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: Hermetech Mastering on March 08, 2014, 01:32:38 pm
Cool, will wait until time is up before checking again/downloading! If there's only the two of us in my group, then I will listen and comment on all!
Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: KAyo on March 08, 2014, 10:30:02 pm
Well done, Hermetech. Yeah, just do that matey.
Would really like your input on the masters.

Speak soon.
KAyo


Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: alex-p on March 11, 2014, 01:32:54 pm
Hi everyone,

Sorry i couldn t upload  the track in the dropbox so I sent a link to Kayo, on Sunday night,  maybe I should forward it to the rest of the crew,  dunno. ...

Cheers

Alex.
Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: fuse on March 11, 2014, 01:55:59 pm
Wasn't aware this coincided with the Frankfurter Musik Messe which I will be attending.
Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: BiigNiick on March 11, 2014, 02:22:16 pm

Techniques for my master.


Hi-Res audio came from the engineer as 24-96k .wav on DVD-R
Import to PT9 at 24-96


Flux EPureII digital EQ
   HP@30Hz
   -2@120-30
   -2@425-30
   -2@500-30


Lavry MDA824


GML 8200 - BYPASS


Avalon 2055
   -0
   -0
   -1.5@2k- <-
   +1@25kHz


Manley Vari-Mu
   +1.5 clicks input gain
   +0 output gain
   recovery medium
   -4.0 clicks threshold
   attack 0.2 clicks
   separate mode
   compress mode


Rupert Neve P2MBP
   6 clicks gain
   10 clicks attack
   6 clicks release
   10 clicks threshold
   10 clicks ratio
   feedback yes
   blend 100%
   peak no
   texture 0
   silk no
   limiter 0
   link yes
   sidechain no
   SFE none


Tilt EQ none


Elliptical @150Hz


Lavry MAD 824


PT9


PSP Zenon
   +1dB input
   -0.1 output




Assembly in DSP Quattro from 24-96
SRC and dither
DDP output
Cleaned up with Sororis DDP creator

Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: KAyo on March 11, 2014, 03:46:56 pm
Hi everyone,

Sorry i couldn t upload  the track in the dropbox so I sent a link to Kayo, on Sunday night,  maybe I should forward it to the rest of the crew,  dunno. ...

Cheers

Alex.

Don't worry Alex, your mastered file now in Group 1 folder, ready for all to download.

Cheers,
KAyo
Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: alex-p on March 11, 2014, 04:31:28 pm
thanks Kayo

talk soon!

Alex
Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: Michael Hynes on March 11, 2014, 04:54:48 pm
My process for the track was this.......

Mio EQ (digital)
-0.3 15.1 K 2.50 Q
-0.3 1.50 K 2.50 Q
-0.6 758 HZ 2.09Q
+0.6 213 HZ 0.009 Q
-0.3 144 HZ   0.29 Q

Mono filter @ 80HZ

KNIF Soma in MS mode
M  / +1 100HZ shelf   / -0.5 1.5 K 1Q   / -0.5 2.7 K-1Q/  +0.5 27K -0.5 Q
S  / +0.5 100HZ shelf          ****              -1.0 2.7 K-1Q/           ****
25 HZ HP 24K LP

Foote P3S ME  running transformerless at 1:35:1 with HPF engaged in RMS mode.
maybe a quarter or half Db of reduction on Forte sections.

Mio Limiter set for soft Knee  with a quick release hitting a half db on Forte sections.       

**** = duplicate settings

Best,

Michael
Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: alex-p on March 11, 2014, 04:58:49 pm
my chain,

downsample to 44.1 using RX3 (usually i don't but..)

automatization on the gain to help some portion to feel more dynamic

weiss eq1mk2 dyn -0.2@ 740 q5, -0.3@ 1.86k q 4, -0.6 @ 3.14k q 5, -0.4 @ 4.70k q 5 not LP not dyn

out thru HDCD

DM master flat into liaison

DM BAX hpf 12 +0,5 @84hz
sontec 432 +1 @ 42hz q11 +2 @ 22k q 6
Requisite //compression 30% -2db gr on the peaks

HDCD back to Samplitude

Psp Xenon +1.32 -.30 out

cheers

Alex



Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: KAyo on March 11, 2014, 08:24:27 pm

my chain

downsample to 44.1 using RX3 (usually i don't but..)

cheers
Alex

Yeah! That did surprised me ..
Since, I kept it totally in the box, I did not get a chance to capture at 44/16, had to dither down, but, at the end.. I did.

Prefer to capture. Nonetheless, got a sweet slither down [pun intended] :)

Technique coming up.
KAyo
Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: alex-p on March 11, 2014, 08:39:57 pm
i was working with an other project at that time, so my clock was set at 44.1 and i was waiting for the last mix from him so i didn't really think and just kept the clock like it was.

not a good excuse, i was maybe a bit lazy, ahahaha
Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: KAyo on March 11, 2014, 09:10:51 pm
All good mate.

Sontec, Weiss, Requisite, some Dangerous!
Great gear there.. Alex.


Cheers,
KAyo

Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: alex-p on March 11, 2014, 09:27:35 pm
ahaha say that to the boss!
i own none of those!

to add something to the downsampling, it depends also if i will do some treatment ITB, if i won't i downsample sometimes before hand.
depends a lot of the music of course, but with acoustic i normally stay at the highest res possible

cheers
Alex
Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: Hermetech Mastering on March 12, 2014, 08:32:48 am
Here's my work flow notes on this track.

Overall approach: I am not used to mastering this kind of acoustic/classical/jazz material, so just wanted to see how it would sound passing through my gear, hoping for some kind of euphonic effect! So decided to use very mild settings, going more for the "audiophile" than "effected/processed" sound.

I kept everything at 96kHz until the last stage before SRCing to 44.1 and dithering down to 16 bit.

DAW was AudioMulch. EQ DMGEQuilibrium Butterworth 12dB HPF at 24Hz. TB Dither to 24 bit before hitting Crookwood transfer DAC to analogue chain.

Chandler Germanium Compressors set as clean as they could possibly go, long attack, shortest release, no more than 0.5dB of gain reduction.

With the TC Pullet/ Chandler TG2 EQ combo, I only used the modified high shelf. Boosted 3dB at 12kHz for a bit of high end emphasis/air/stereo width increase etc. TG2 was 35dB of gain.

Bax EQ was HPF at 24Hz, Bass shelving cut 0.5dB at 74Hz, High shelving cut 0.5dB at 2.1kHz, and LPF at 28kHz. I should mention that this is the curve I use that actually gives the FLATTEST response with the preceding pieces of gear in the chain.

Back into AudioMulch via Crookwood ADC. Voxengo MSED set to attenuate the MID channel by 0.3dB for very slight stereo width enhancement (again, this is more like a way to get back the loss of stereo width that the previous pieces can sometimes cause).

Recorded file was then passed though Voxengo Elephant 4.0 in another AudioMulch document, with a maximum of 1.9dB of limiting.

Final limited 32float/96 file was SRCed and dithered down to 16/44 with FinalCD for the end result.

Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: Hermetech Mastering on March 13, 2014, 09:47:14 am
OK, I'll go first!

These figures gave me a starting place to adjust gains to get a similar perceived volume when comparing:

foobar2000 1.3.1 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2014-03-13 14:04:45

DR         Peak         RMS          Duration Track
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR11      -0.31 dB   -16.36 dB      4:17 Alex P
DR12      -1.32 dB   -19.18 dB      4:20 Art Sta
DR10      -0.09 dB   -15.08 dB      4:20 Biig Niick
DR11      -4.29 dB   -20.43 dB      4:17 Fuse
DR12      -0.05 dB   -16.57 dB      4:22 Hermetech Mastering
DR10       0.00 dB   -14.27 dB      4:20 Kayo
DR8       -0.67 dB   -13.90 dB      4:20 Michael Hynes
DR11      -0.48 dB   -15.69 dB      4:20 Mike Marra

AlexP -  Lovely, natural sound, first crescendo a little subdued, could hear the compressor working here maybe? Overall great.

ArtSta - Light and airy, noise seems a bit high, seems like more EQ/stereo processing was used than in the other versions?

BiigNiick - Clean, clear and natural, crescendos great and three dimensional, perhaps a little too much limiting?

Fuse - Good overall, although a little thin, and I thought I could hear a patina of "graininess" over the whole thing, mainly in the upper mids/highs, converter maybe? Any reason it is so quiet?

Hermetech Mastering - Mine seems a little dull in comparison with many of the others, maybe I should have boosted the highs more?

KAyo - Very light and airy, overall nice engaging tone, but I worry the high boost brings out the key noise/room noise a little too much? Also, Digicheck is registering digital overs in one place.

Michael Hynes - I liked this version a lot, as it has a similar frequency balance to my own, although it was substantially louder. Too much limiting/loudness to sound completely natural? Slightly "congested" in the busier parts, mainly in the lower mids.

Mike Marra - Lovely, liked this one a lot. Nice stereo width. Warm and natural, highs nice, and not over boosted. My fave of the other entries.
Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: ArtSta on March 13, 2014, 11:02:09 am
Late to the party as always  ;)
My goal was to make the track sound simply bigger (more like a real thing rather than like a mix, because it is definitely on a thin side) and accentuate main/lead instrument because of its great articulations. The first thing I noticed was the mix sounding boxy (and thus small). This boxiness (with prevailing resonances in just one band) kills the recording space (really nice btw. when cleaned a bit), and this was a foundation of my decisions taken (including some obvious compromises of course like higher noise level).

What I did not address in my master was: a) stereo image (looks like a bit too wide to me- but I would need just more time to play with it), b) I would use a little bit different EQ settings on quiet sections. Due to time constraints I finally used analog chain (not intended primarily), because I work faster with knobs. So I haven't played with different EQ settings this time.

I used 2 EQs and no dynamic processing.
The 1st EQ was MMM (Manley Mini Massive) with transformer bypassed and both LF & HF set to Mini unique curves (shelves), ideal for the purpose. LF was set to 33Hz, medium bandwidth (it's actually quite wide) and level at 9:00 that gives LF boost whith a slight wide dip in mid freqs. HF was set to 16k, medium bandwidth and level at 9:30 that gives HF boost (bringing up some musicians self noises and the noise level) with gentle dip around HFs/MFs.
The 2nd EQ was Sontec MEP250, giving an additional sculpt. What I did was a slight cut (-1.0dB) at 200Hz with Q=2, cut (-2dB) at 800Hz (Q the same) and a little boost at 400Hz and 5kHz (+1dB and +1.5dB respectively, Q .5).
Oh I forgot I rise a level couple of dBs digitally and using P3S ME (class A) compressor (1:1 ratio, no transformer).
And that's it :).

Actually I would provide 2 masters to the client to choose from. One a bit tamed in the presence area (recently had a client who wanted more presence for his lead instrument, so I've made it hereby too) and different eq settings on sections as described above.

Oh, the mix contained rather strong continuous signal at about 25k and above. I wonder what's this ?
I can see that my fades were gone for some reason (it happens from time to time) and I did not fix it- just let you know.

Best
Art
Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: ArtSta on March 13, 2014, 11:45:13 am
ArtSta - Light and airy, noise seems a bit high, seems like more EQ/stereo processing was used than in the other versions?

Ahh, Gregg, stereo processing would be the last thing I could think about regarding genre. The slightly wider image is just a result of eq decisions made and recording mics positioning. It definitely needs to be addressed (but it's a Wump  ;)). Actually I think the mix is too wide originally (I attend live events with ensembles like this quite often), but maybe mics could not be placed elsewhere.
Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: KAyo on March 13, 2014, 03:41:50 pm
This is good people.
Very informative and engaging.

My observations and working, coming up.


Cheers,
KAyo
Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: mmarra on March 14, 2014, 07:31:19 am
Hello fellow WUMP27er's I will add my settings and feedback once I get back into the studio as I am away for a few days.
Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: KAyo on March 16, 2014, 11:04:17 am
People, of Wump27!

Felicitations to all. An honourable effort from the group.
The mastering Wump has been an exercise worth venturing into, everytime. I thank Niick for the track and the group for the jam-up! This genre was worth waiting for...

What I noticed, heard, read and learnt was an opportunity to study what different approaches and also an opportunity to listen and affirm the sound of all this great gear within the group on a track just as this!.. Wow! That in-itself was a winner for me. Thank you.


My process was totally minimal and in the box.
File > MD3 > Sonalksis Ultimate-D > 44/16
The restrained veracious solo process journey.

TC:MD3
Input: -1.0db
DC Block: On
Crossovers: 315hz & 3.15khz
Auto gain: Off
RMS crest and Reference level 0.0dbfs

Low cut: 29.70hz    Mid1:87.30hz   Mid2:732hz    Hi shelf: 12.50khz
Cut Butterworth      Gain:+0.7db        -0.5db             +0.5db
                          0.40 oct               4.00 oct          6db slope

Soft clip @ 0.00db
Expander: Low -36.0db  Mid:  High -28.0db
Range: -10db     -10db          -10db
Attack: 1.0ms     1.0ms          1.0ms
Release: 500ms     500ms         1.4s

Compressor: Low -6.0db   Mid -60db  High -16.0db
Ratio: 3.20:1       2.00:1        2.00:1       
Attack: 30.0ms  20.0ms       20.0ms
Release: 700ms   500ms     300ms
Gain: +2db   +1db    0.0db

Limiter: Threshold -0.2db        Release0.10s        Ceiling 0.00db
Trims: +1.0db
Output: -0.0db

Sonalksis Ultimate-D      Application: Mastering   Content: Hybrid         Quantize: 16bit
Dither 44.16

- - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - -


In no particular order, my notes.. without the semantics.


BiigNiick
The warm depth of the master was felt.. The painless mid was poignantly held and there was panache to what I was hearing. Also, well rounded in RMS and overall body. Crucially, the Ďsymphonicí blossoming wasn't lost! My prod would now be to take me out of the room and into the wider open! Letís just lock this-in and seek air!


Mike mmarra
Again, a painless translation like Niickís. On a nice open amp the mids donít hurt and translates unified. The tone is sitting right too and the frame feels good. Some limiting felt, therefore slightly dreary. Pleasant RMS.


Fuse:
Deceptive volume, once cranked (for listening purposes) its pleasantly agreeable! I enjoyed the EQ lime-bitter incalculably! An airy youthful and slightly grainy tone was exposed. An altered justice to the track. Also, the sheer brass orbs to leave it low and expansive, making the amps talk, was amusing and teaching at the same time. Yes, sharp like with low gain than expected, but, I get! "hear hear"


ArtSta:
Sturdy and like a thoroughbred. Velvet structure. I like! Overtime, slightly fatiguing due to its multi-band like sound, and sloped towards the high freq spectrum. Itís got great bass attributes too, just let go of the bands. Nice RMS.


Hermetech:
Yes, I agree. Overly grey and browning drowning. Saying that, underneath lays a good big bodied track, well RMSíed and dynamically quite good [the mids donít hurt and the bass rolled fuller] Under the opaque wrapper lies an agreeable master! I bet..


Alex-P:
Sweet EQ and an analogue like tone that holds a distinguished presence. I do sense the browning, as none of the spectrums are clearly defined, thus, evading timbre clarity of the symphony. A bit more sculpted body and whiteĎer sound would do this great! Good RMS.


Hynes:
You have a good frequency shape adding body and energy to the track, culminating into a large sound! If you could de- congest it a slither and further carve that clear glass effect, this would have been something. Phew.. Good work. Big RMS.



Thanks for the jam-up people!
Ciao,
KAyo
Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: alex-p on March 16, 2014, 06:00:52 pm
thanks for the insight Kayo,

i forget to mention that the thursday before i did this, we moved the speakers in the suite and swap the linpinsky for a pair of Atc25, so needless to say it can be slightly confusing, matter of fact, i redid the lp i have done over the weekend before sending it to the client when i listen to it next morning.

having said that i should have listen to this one on monday morning as well before sending it, my fault.

i do appreciate a lot the critics as it helps me to get to know the ''new room'' faster

by browning you mean lack of definition?

i will listen to all of the masters soon and give my comments

cheers

Alex
Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: KAyo on March 17, 2014, 03:43:26 am
Hey Alex,

By 'browning' I meant, it was more of an evening dusk moment, when it's beautiful as a singularity mushed softness or as a 'glow!'


And yes, that speaker swaperoo' can seriously throw one out.
The whole perceived hearing palette needs to be somewhat refreshed, much like a sorbet would. I go mono for longer durations than normal plus add idiosyncratic-oddities such as listening to large portions of noises (white/brown/rain/) That's just me! :o

Your insight, is awaited.


Cheers,
KAyo
Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: KAyo on March 17, 2014, 11:28:41 am

Oh, the mix contained rather strong continuous signal at about 25k and above. I wonder what's this ?
I can see that my fades were gone for some reason (it happens from time to time) and I did not fix it- just let you know.

Best
Art

Not sure, but, I did feel there was that something. 'Am I hearing something in tandem to the track?' On your mention, I recall having that thought on several occasions. Others may chime in..


Ciao'
KAyo

Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: KAyo on March 19, 2014, 01:06:19 pm
More comments to come?
Discussions are keenly awaited Wumper's.


Thanks
KAyo
Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: mmarra on March 19, 2014, 03:42:26 pm
Hello all, here at my settings for the track we mastered for WUMP 27:

- All ITB processing
- Nebula Studer 810 tape machine
- DMG EQuilibrium:
    1) high pass filter at 40 Hz
    2) bell cut -0.3 db at 234 Hz with Q = 0.73
    3) bell cut -0.5 db at 3011 Hz with Q = 1.64
- Brainworx Bx EQ:
    1) De-sser at 5 kHz
- Voxengo MSED: -0.3 db mid channel
- Voxengo Elephant limiter EL-4 and ceiling at -0.3

My goal for the track was to warm it up and do my best to control the violin that was out of balance...at least to my liking. I want it to sound as if I was listening to it on a 1930s style radio... :)

I will also take a listen and comment on the other WUMP masters over the next few days as I just got back to the studio and need to catch up on some masters.
Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: BiigNiick on March 20, 2014, 07:04:38 pm
wow, everyone did a good job!  it was so fun doing a classical WUMP  :-)  i am pleased to be a part of this group of ME's.  with that said, i gave everyone's track a listen and wrote a few comments as i was listening. . .   i read them back and they may seem a little harsh or critical.  by no means do i mean to come off that way, but we all have places we can improve and it's good to get objective critical opinions on our work.  it's how we grow as engineers.

with that said, here are my thoughts on the different masters i have listened to.  please don't take any criticisms personally.

 - nick


ArtSta     -22.2     -1.3
the dynamics are nice and the level is good.  but, the master is very wide and bright!  way too much processing on this for my taste.  the image is extremely exaggerated.  on second listen, the brightness i think is ok.  the stereo image is what makes me think there is too much done.

fuse     -23.4     -4.3
nice and open feeling.  maybe a touch too bright. . .  i feel some of the dynamics could have been more impactful.  you have 4.3dB of headroom you could have used.  it's free gain, why not use it?

HermetechMastering     -19.5     -0.1
the master i downloaded showed an error in the header…  everything was there, but it gave a warning about the IFF size.  here is the message.
Code: [Select]
The number of bytes described in the IFF size (46199192)
is smaller than the size of the file.  This means there are unused
bytes in this file, which can pose a security risk.
nice.  i'm missing some of the warmth in the midrange of the original track.  it does round out the brass nicely, but i feel it sacrifices some of the clarity.  good dynamics.  everything felt pretty good.

KAyo     -17.3      -0
nice and open sounding.  at first listen, i though it was a little constricted in the louder sections, but i like how it tightened in the low mids in those sections.  i like how it snaps focus in on the soloist.  very musical sounding.

Michael Hynes     -16.9     -0.7
i think this one is too compressed for classical music.  i'm missing a lot of definition and impact on the louder sections.  overall, it feels a little dark.  you did tame down some of the midrange honk on the sax, but it also lost some character there.  not terrible, but more compression that i would have liked to see on a classical track.

mmarra     -18.7     -0.5
nice.  i feel it lost some of the low end impact on the louder sections.  maybe a little too filtered on the low end.  let a little more of the low end come through or slide the HP filter a little lower…


Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: Hermetech Mastering on March 22, 2014, 04:26:30 am
Hermetech:
Yes, I agree. Overly grey and browning drowning. Saying that, underneath lays a good big bodied track, well RMSíed and dynamically quite good [the mids donít hurt and the bass rolled fuller] Under the opaque wrapper lies an agreeable master! I bet..

Not really sure what you mean, except that it doesn't sound too complimentary!

HermetechMastering     -19.5     -0.1
the master i downloaded showed an error in the headerÖ  everything was there, but it gave a warning about the IFF size.  here is the message.
Code: [Select]
The number of bytes described in the IFF size (46199192)
is smaller than the size of the file.  This means there are unused
bytes in this file, which can pose a security risk.
nice.  i'm missing some of the warmth in the midrange of the original track.  it does round out the brass nicely, but i feel it sacrifices some of the clarity.  good dynamics.  everything felt pretty good.

Thanks for the appraisal, Nick. That's very weird about the header. Can I ask which software was telling you that? Was it in the .zip unarchiving, or a DAW/editor? In 4 1/2 years of professional service, this is the first time anyone has ever mentioned anything like this, so obviously I am quite concerned! Maybe time I updated my 7Zip?
Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: BiigNiick on March 22, 2014, 12:16:00 pm
Thanks for the appraisal, Nick. That's very weird about the header. Can I ask which software was telling you that? Was it in the .zip unarchiving, or a DAW/editor? In 4 1/2 years of professional service, this is the first time anyone has ever mentioned anything like this, so obviously I am quite concerned! Maybe time I updated my 7Zip?


the file i downloaded from dropbox wasn't zipped...  i think.  actually, i don't remember if it was zipped or not.  sample manager showed the error.  every other daw i had just ignored the error and just assumed the end of file was the end of the recording.  i would not think it's any zip problem, because they have an extra CRC check inside the zip.  everything needs to be bit accurate or the zip won't unarchive.  i've found sample manager to be the pickiest of all the programs.  they're a real stickler for all the header info being correct.  they can also correct many of the problems too.


 - nick
Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: fuse on March 22, 2014, 02:01:38 pm
As to my techniques.

I've used R8brain to downsample to 44.1khz.
From there I ran it through:
Shadow Hills Mastering UAD plugin with some subtle compression on both optical and discrete channels, more to do with the coloring than compression
Manley Massive Passive 2 notches on low band a 150Hz and 9 Notches at high band at 3k9kHz
Voxengo Elephant 3 with -0.3 db Limit and 16bit dithering
Intentionally kept it at K-14(ish) range
Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: Hermetech Mastering on March 22, 2014, 02:53:50 pm

the file i downloaded from dropbox wasn't zipped...  i think.  actually, i don't remember if it was zipped or not.  sample manager showed the error.  every other daw i had just ignored the error and just assumed the end of file was the end of the recording.  i would not think it's any zip problem, because they have an extra CRC check inside the zip.  everything needs to be bit accurate or the zip won't unarchive.  i've found sample manager to be the pickiest of all the programs.  they're a real stickler for all the header info being correct.  they can also correct many of the problems too.


 - nick

Thanks Nick, yes, of course you are right, it wasn't zipped, I just uploaded the .wav. In every day work I always .zip it for clients, but for WUMPs it seems everyone just uploads the raw .wavs. Anyway, very weird, I will investigate further!
Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: KAyo on March 22, 2014, 05:57:32 pm

KAyo     -17.3      -0
nice and open sounding.  at first listen, i though it was a little constricted in the louder sections, but i like how it tightened in the low mid's in those sections.  i like how it snaps focus in on the soloist.  very musical sounding.



Hi BiigNiick,

Thanks for your feedback.
I did seek musicality and emotion on my EQ choices. I aimed to take it away from it's 2 Dimensional roots to a more florescence and expansive place. The MD3 really helped envelope that mid-range with it's classy compression etc.. Big fan of the Sonalksis too.


Cheers mate,
KAyo
 
Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: BiigNiick on March 24, 2014, 02:05:14 pm
it has come to my attention that i neglected to critique one of the entries.  here you go Alex-P ;-P
WUMP has been a lot of fun this go around.  hopefully we'll have another great learning experience summer/fall 2014.  and thanks KAyo for organizing the WUMP.  definitely a great thing we've got going on with this community of engineers.  everyone, keep up the good work!


thanks,
 - nick
 



 Alex-P        -19.4        -0.3
very nice.  i liked the retention of the dynamics of the song.  also, i like where you were going with making the soloist a little less strident in the 2k range, but it may have been too much.  i feel it tucks the soloist back into the orchestra and i feel i loose him in some of the more dense portions.  overall, very good.







Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: ArtSta on March 24, 2014, 05:28:10 pm
First of all, thank you all who participated already (and in the future) for feedback!
Thank you KAyo for letting this happened!

Gentlemen, I have a problem to put my comments on your work. It's pretty tough to do it right without knowing everybody's approach and without the mix in context.

Ok, it's not that uncommon to get live recording like this and as usual there are things that would require artist attention (and questions to be answered), including pointing him to some reference performances, to make sure he would really want the master in the way the mix/recording is done. To just call a few issues: outbalanced mids (including strong recording room resonances), the weird differences (for the genre) between mid and side channels, some level drops (like that one at 2'09"- compressor with wrong timing used ?), etc.

Given the Wump description to keep it real, clean and pleasurable to listen, even more questions come to mind :).

Finally, some masters suffered, including mine, from the static eq settings that simply do not work for this track.

That being said, I can only comment what I like and what I do not, which is pretty subjective and I am not sure it's appropriate. The comments could be quite different with known assumptions (decisions are already known) that everybody has taken prior to master this track.
But well, here we go.

BiigNiick:
I like the overall warmth of the track and snappiness of percussion. The track is now a bit more open than a mix, a little bit heavier, which is rather good.
I don't like the main solo instrument sections. They seem to be filtered too much, however it's not that evident as it sounds here. I don't like the boxiness- eq settings bring even more of it.

mmara:
I like how this track sounds. Indeed like an early am radio, however in a more musical way. The music just flows all the way through the whole track. I bought it, even if it's limited in bands.

HermetechMastering:
I like how this master sounds, looks like in a more elegant way than mix, even with a slight warmth deficiency.
I don't like the main solo instrument sections like in BiigNiicks master (sound a bit too artificial- some notes have slightly unreal frequency balance). And of course, I don't like the overall boxiness. Maybe the track is too light to me (some bass notes are lost). Your wav file seems to be shifted a couple of samples forward (maybe this is side effect of an issue reported by Nick ?).

Michael Hynes:
I like quieter sections because of the sound stage created by your decisions. Looks like the master is a bit dark in comparison to the mix, but to me this is actually not a bad thing having the mix in mind and the final result.
I don't like louder sections. Seems like some dynamics is lost then. I don't like the boxiness.

fuse:
Very nice :). I like how the track sounds. Still some boxiness left, but not that apparent. What I miss is a bottom end, just a touch, well, maybe two touches ;-).

KAyo:
I like the openess of the master and its smoothness.
I don't like the slight dynamics lost (like that one in 1'58"). I don't like the boxiness left.

Alex-P:
I like the dynamics. Interesting.
I don't like the loss of clarity (I read about your speakers replacement- maybe this is it). I don't like the boxiness, some parts bring even more of it.
Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: KAyo on March 24, 2014, 06:44:29 pm
Thanks everybody! 8)

As said before, "Every single WUMP hosted, has been a good learning and test ground etc". no question about it.

Our next will be mid year .. we already have a Classical Guitar track from Dana, so lookout for my shout out then.


Regards,
KAyo

Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: KAyo on March 25, 2014, 08:56:06 am
As to my techniques.

I've used R8brain to downsample to 44.1khz.
From there I ran it through:
Shadow Hills Mastering UAD plugin with some subtle compression on both optical and discrete channels, more to do with the coloring than compression
Manley Massive Passive 2 notches on low band a 150Hz and 9 Notches at high band at 3k9kHz
Voxengo Elephant 3 with -0.3 db Limit and 16bit dithering
Intentionally kept it at K-14(ish) range

Hi fuse,

Was the "Manley Massive Passive" also a UAD plug?

KAyo
Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: fuse on March 25, 2014, 06:49:53 pm
Hi fuse,

Was the "Manley Massive Passive" also a UAD plug?

KAyo

I used the hardware.
But I also have the plugin.
Love it to bits on mixes.
But for the nice analogue sound I prefer the hardware.
Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: alex-p on March 29, 2014, 11:00:05 pm
hi everyone,

sorry for the delay as i wanted to get to know better the room before giving any insights

that wump was really nice for me as my clients are rather Pop, Hip Hop, Afrobeat and EDM producers, so i was excited to get to work on this classy piece.
i learn a lot about the room as well thru the comments of everyone here.

here is some observation i made listening to all the masters

BiigNiick: i like a lot the big soundstage and the realism of the track, the players seems to be here in the room, interesting volume/ dynamic.

Fuse: i like the quiet section, but the rest is somehow really bright (some kind of sharpness in the top end) i respect the k14 choice (we have a volume control made for this after all)

Michael Hynes: this one is slightly darker and maybe the dynamics is slightly restrained but nice to listen to in a cool atmoshere (like a classy bar sharing a cocktail with someone)

Kayo: nice also, except maybe missing a little warmth and slightly too much dynamic restrained but close to the BiigNiick's (even though BiigNiick has a bigger soundstage )

ArtSta: in the system i listen to there is a lot of low freq info which tend to cover the rest ( this room is big and the playback system goes really low) it sounds interesting cause of the low but i don't have enough knowledge of this music to tell if it's too much or just a little too much, i miss also a little mid.
the dynamic is nice, it's involving!

Hermetech Mastering: nice dynamic but i miss the warmth. it become a bit edgy (because of the missing midlow low freq) even though edgy is too strong of a word in this case.

mmarra: i like the tone (it's the one i prefer after BiigNiick) i miss a little bit of snapiness and dynamic but not much!

mine: is missing some hi-freq and some definition overall. i like it better when i am listening it really loud, which is sign of dullness, i actually made it thinking about the '' i listen to it LOUD'' people, i guess i went a little bit too far....(leaving aside the speaker's swap)

hope no-one take my comments too personal, as i know that one track doesn't show the average of most ME, having said that, the level of this wump was really good and it was hard to actually ''prefer'' a master over other as all were really good in many ways, i never felt i prefer the mix over any master! i speak about the overall results (tone, dynamic, loudness pleasure of listening to it....) gain over the mix.

looking forward to the next one!

have a good sunday all.

Alex

Title: Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
Post by: ArtSta on March 31, 2014, 10:10:49 am
ArtSta: in the system i listen to there is a lot of low freq info which tend to cover the rest ( this room is big and the playback system goes really low) it sounds interesting cause of the low but i don't have enough knowledge of this music to tell if it's too much or just a little too much, i miss also a little mid.
the dynamic is nice, it's involving!

Thank you Alex!
I am ready to discuss/investigate this issue in more details. Yeah, I agree it's maybe just too much. As far as I remember the case, the lowest note being played is A#1 so it can be easily reproduced by any reasonable speaker system (my system gives up (-3dB) just at 12Hz), but the mix seems to expose F2-G2 (and occasionally C2) notes a little too high (especially after trying to lift the lows) and I suppose this is what you're hearing. I left it as it is, because I decided to get as little artificial balance as possible (most instruments in the mix are there).

Art