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R/E/P => R/E/P Archives => Brad Blackwood => Topic started by: Viitalahde on May 22, 2009, 05:33:45 pm

Title: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Viitalahde on May 22, 2009, 05:33:45 pm
I'm curious to hear how many of you guys have a small, tilted rack in front of you instead of a full-blown desk/table. Out of my memory, I recall at least Mark Chalecki and Steve Berson to have such set-ups.

I used to have a set-up like that in the beginning, now I share a part of a big desk with the mixing guys. Now that I seem to occupy the room all day long, I'm wondering if it'd make any sense to go back to the small rack in front, I kinda miss it.

Pros/cons?
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: livingstone on May 22, 2009, 07:06:14 pm
Hi Jaako,

i used to have just one rack in front of me for some time, then with more gears i needed two, in front of me two, and the when my partner joined me we also had the neve vinyl transfert desk/rack
so then it was one in front and 2 by the side at 45
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: jdg on May 22, 2009, 07:14:06 pm
i tried the racks at the side at one point, but i found i actually noticed them more there, then right in front.

then there are the "racks behind you" people....
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Dave Davis on May 22, 2009, 07:21:31 pm
At my old job I had one of these and I loved it - http://www.argosyconsole.com/argosy_ravenh10.html

totally re-invented the room, and improved a lot of things - it forced me to rethink everything, and was a huge improvement over my former "everything in front of me at eye level" desk.  I put the patchbays (switched to modern DB25 backs, with custom cabling (cut 200 lbs off the floor), tie lines and interfaces on one side.  On the other I put outboard, transports, and put the computer in the next room.  Monitors off the back edge of the desk, below eye level, leaving the small top free for controllers and such (which we had a number of).  If  I were build a new room, especially around my ULN8, this is the approach I'd use again for sure.  But my needs are VERY minimal - variables that would change that:

- slant racks like that have unequally usable spaces (eg bottom spaces can't accommodate deep fear as well as top ones).

- if you need more than 10 spaces/side you'll need a top-cab, and at that point I'm not sure you're getting much benefit.  I guess you could put transports in some straight racks to the front or sides...

- if you need a big desktop!

-d-
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Jerry Tubb on May 22, 2009, 10:31:04 pm
Odd man out as usual, but I'm quite happy with my giant custom built U-shaped Mothership.
Most everything within reach without leaving the sweet spot, and plenty of "producers desk" room.
(fwiw the lowly KRKs were temporary.) JT
index.php/fa/12316/0/
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Viitalahde on May 23, 2009, 05:26:19 am
Frederic, after starting the topic, I actually thought of two tilted racks in the sides, low enough, but high enough to reach without looking at the knobs. That combined with a very minimal desk in front for keyboard, perhaps.. Dunno. That would be pretty close to a desk, on the other hand.

I used to be out of the sweet spot when editing (DAW on the side in the 1st room), but in the long run that was pretty confusing.

A brainfart idea would be to have a rack that would be for working standing up. I do that sometimes when I'm alone and in a good mood. I do what I do and then sit down to have a good listen.
 
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Viitalahde on May 23, 2009, 06:21:01 am
Dave, that Argosy console looks good. I'm sitting right now in my chair and thinking how great it'd be if the racks were on the sides like that. Definately something to consider. I'd have them custom made - I know a great carpenter who could do something for my requirements.

Keep it coming, good stuff and very inspriring. One reason I want to get rid of empty surfaces is that I have a stupid habit of collecting all kinds of crap on the table. No table = no crap.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Rick O'neil on May 23, 2009, 07:03:35 am
i suffer from this affliction every six months
one night i thought the meter bridge in my console was "interfering" with the sound  a little bit on an ultra mono  sounding recording

i made my mind up that the 5.1 wave i was waiting to wash over us was not coming , pulled out my festooll circular saw , put an metal cutting blade in it and 40 minutes later viola .. no top heavy meter bridge  !

 i have the stuff i touch  as an instinct  reaction at my finger tips and the rest of the  rig is either down lower  at my side , or over to each side  in  a few other large racks

i would love to have nothing in front of me but i cannot see my way through "how to do it "
tonights iphone shot  index.php/fa/12326/0/
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: TotalSonic on May 23, 2009, 08:09:54 am
When I was at Europadisk I came into a studio whose layout had been designed by the previous engineer (who had to make compromises to what he actually wanted due to budget constraints) - with a tall desk (you needed to either stand or use a chair with the same height of a bar stool) that only had room for a couple computer monitors (one of them fitting in a sunken well) and a Neve DTC.  So the only controls for monitoring directly in front of you were on 16bit digital attenuators.  There were a few pieces of rack gear in a tall rack the back of the room, and a Neumann analog transfer console (with lathe controls, analog monitoring controls and a few processors in it) to the right.  

I hated the ergonomics there - it was awkward and required a good bit of moving around to do nearly anything.  I ended up moving one of the computer monitors (that had just tied to the office database and wasn't actually necessary for mastering) off the desk and put a small rack there with a few analog processors and a simple Coleman monitor controller - helped a lot.  But when I moved into my own room I wanted things directly in front of me as much as possible without having a big ol' desk between me and the speakers.

I had seen pics of Ed Littman's and Dave McNair's old studios where they had used a simple 14 space slanted rack by Quiklok for "front and center" and liked the fact that it was both minimalist and inexpensive.  Considering my budget at the time I was opening my own place didn't have room to include something like a Sterling Modular desk - and that the size of my room made me want to keep the size of any "desk" smaller as well - made me go with this solution.   Since then I've added another lower 10 space rack again by Quiklok to the right to accommodate some additional processors.

Here's a fairly recent shot of me at work:
http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/47/l_4562ed4671ba496cad214035ea28dea1.jpg

I just replaced my clunky old DAW desk (to the left) with a sleek minimalist design by Versatables.  It's similar to other minimalist DAW stands by Sterling Modular and Sound Anchors - but at half the price and with more off the shelf options.  Really nice build quality and quick shipping as well (I got it a week and a half after I placed the order online).  I'll try and get some shots of this posted sometime soon.    http://www.versatables.com/pages/products/spacesaver/dfc1103 .php

http://images.versatables.com/office/dlfc_main.jpg

Anyway - I don't think my desk-less setup is for everyone.  Bob Weston (of Chicago Mastering Service) stopped by one day and asked me whether I got a back ache leaning forward to tweak processors - which I don't (with a good bit of thanks to the Aeron chair for this) - but at 5'7" I'm relatively short, I'm skinny, and I tend to be "squirmy," often still sitting like a kid would.  I think someone with a bigger frame would often prefer a desk over a setup like mine.

Sometimes I think of changing to a desk myself (I know both Ed Littman and Dave McNair are using Sterling Modular desks now instead of the Quiklok) - but I do in fact like the transparency of the setup (i.e. changing my DAW desk recently to something with a smaller footprint did in fact make a noticeable improvement in my monitoring) - while it still lets me have things in front of me where I want them to be - although admittedly there are times when I have to lean a little further forward to tweak my Sontec (at the top of the center rack) than I would prefer.  For now though the money that would possibly go for a custom desk is ear marked for an analog insert controller - which at this time is a much bigger priority - and for now I'm happy with my setup as it is.

Best regards,
Steve Berson  
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: dave-G on May 23, 2009, 09:40:54 am
Rick O'neil wrote on Sat, 23 May 2009 07:03

tonights iphone shot  index.php/fa/12326/0/


Ooh. This is a good one for 'name that gear'

Is that a Unicomp above the Avalon?  And a Quad-Eight compressor in the right side-rack?  

And I see you're a member of the SCSBKS Secret Crane Song Black Knob Society


On-topic, I've been really happy with the Sterling Modular console I've got my stuff in.

-dave
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: mastertone on May 23, 2009, 01:41:02 pm
Im quite happy with my DIY sterling'ish desk.
Mdf boards and paint. Went nuts with the circular saw one weekend.

I wont changed it until i get a bigger room.
http://mastertone.se/Crapshot_1.jpg

Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: TotalSonic on May 23, 2009, 01:51:44 pm
mastertone wrote on Sat, 23 May 2009 13:41

Im quite happy with my DIY sterling'ish desk.
Mdf boards and paint. Went nuts with the circular saw one weekend.

I wont changed it until i get a bigger room.




Looks nice.  I've got that same exact space heater for my studio as well!

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: jdg on May 23, 2009, 02:14:48 pm
TotalSonic wrote on Sat, 23 May 2009 10:51

I've got that same exact space heater for my studio as well!



me 2

Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: compasspnt on May 23, 2009, 02:55:22 pm
When we first moved here to Compass Point (in The Bahamas) in 1992, we brought with us two containers full of equipment and furniture.

I had two of those oil-filled space heaters in there as well.

Now bear in mind that it almost never gets below about 65 degrees F here.

So there are no heaters on the island.


I rolled out one of those space heaters, and asked the studio tech what he thought it was.

He looked it over carefully, and decided it was some sort of reverb device.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: mcsnare on May 23, 2009, 03:31:42 pm
Maybe you could sell it on Ebay as a rare EMI 249. In non working condition of course.

Dave
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: compasspnt on May 23, 2009, 03:54:49 pm
Yes, "as is."

BTW, I had already rolled out a 250 that day, which does look even more like a heater than the heater looks like a heater looks.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Viitalahde on May 23, 2009, 04:22:45 pm
Here's my room & desk in a fairly old photo. The lens makes the speaker placement look wider than it really is.

http://static.studiokuu.fi/images/studio/03.jpg

There's an EQ in that photo that now seems to be in Jonas's rack. This one replaced it:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/virtalahde/lceq_front.jpg
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: rankus on May 23, 2009, 04:27:38 pm
jdg wrote on Sat, 23 May 2009 11:14

TotalSonic wrote on Sat, 23 May 2009 10:51

I've got that same exact space heater for my studio as well!



me 2




Me 4

Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: mastertone on May 23, 2009, 04:54:28 pm
Viitalahde wrote on Sat, 23 May 2009 15:22

Here's my room & desk in a fairly old photo. The lens makes the speaker placement look wider than it really is.

There's an EQ in that photo that now seems to be in Jonas's rack. This one replaced it:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/virtalahde/lceq_front.jpg



Yes! I still like it! And the new one looks fantastic! But no more dymo? What the hell man...
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Viitalahde on May 23, 2009, 04:57:40 pm
mastertone wrote on Sat, 23 May 2009 21:54

But no more dymo? What the hell man...


I broke it. Squashed it too many times!
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: hnewman on May 23, 2009, 06:36:13 pm
jdg wrote on Sat, 23 May 2009 14:14

TotalSonic wrote on Sat, 23 May 2009 10:51

I've got that same exact space heater for my studio as well!



me 2




+3.  Mine totally resonates at about E flat, sometimes I have to roll it out of the room it rings so much.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: TotalSonic on May 23, 2009, 06:48:37 pm
hnewman wrote on Sat, 23 May 2009 18:36

jdg wrote on Sat, 23 May 2009 14:14

TotalSonic wrote on Sat, 23 May 2009 10:51

I've got that same exact space heater for my studio as well!



me 2




+3.  Mine totally resonates at about E flat, sometimes I have to roll it out of the room it rings so much.


The one thing I like about mine as opposed to the built in space heater (with a make circa 1975) that came with the room is that it's pretty much silent.  My Pass Labs X250 is an excellent space heater as well! - which is an advantage in February - but not really all that desirable in August.

Best regards,
Steve Berswon
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Silvertone on May 24, 2009, 08:37:03 am
Personally I just can't have the computer monitor where phantom center is, it just messes me up... having a console in front of me is hard enough.

My room sounds best when I remove everything but the speakers and playback amps but I could never work that way. Like that, I can sit in the 2/3rd's position in the room and enjoy the sound. However, I've had a desk in front of me for 34 years and need it there to do my work. I got use to working this way as such I still sit in the 1/3rd position in the room.  It works... for me.

Open back on the low profile console (always),  low boy slant racks to each side,  space in between the low boy racks and the console, console top slanted for proper refection, eliminate all (or as many) early reflections as possible, high ceiling doesn't hurt either... go...

I have been toying with going the Captain Kirk / bridge of the Star-ship Enterprise route.  One chair in the middle flanked by two low boy racks to each side and then a chair to each side of those for the client(s).  Trying to make the sweet spot big enough for all three...  Next time I clear the room out to have the floors redone (very soon) I might try this and see how I like it.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Schallfeldnebel on May 24, 2009, 12:26:41 pm
What about heat dissipation? 19 inch rack based equipment is not really designed to place it face up to the ceiling, and if you really do it well, you should have 1/2 E space free between units on top of each other to have enough air ventilation. These face plates must get pretty hot; ever thought about the shortening of their lifetime?
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Viitalahde on May 24, 2009, 12:54:08 pm
Heat dissipation definately needs to be considered. I don't think equipment should normally be too warm on the face plate (=uncomfortable for keeping your hand on it), let alone hot.

Tube equipment warms up more, obviously. I think the Requisite compressor has a neat way dealing with this - tubes are outside the chassis but in a cavity, so they're not sticking out. I think EAR stuff does that too.

Heat goes up.. So the hottest pieces should be top, right? I currently don't have any ventilation spaces between the equipment, but that's because they're arranged so that they get enough room to breath.

The lifetime is reduced when the innards stay hot and don't ventilate properly, especially for electrolytic capacitors.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: TotalSonic on May 24, 2009, 01:04:02 pm
Schallfeldnebel wrote on Sun, 24 May 2009 12:26

What about heat dissipation? 19 inch rack based equipment is not really designed to place it face up to the ceiling, and if you really do it well, you should have 1/2 E space free between units on top of each other to have enough air ventilation. These face plates must get pretty hot;


Mine get plenty warm - but not "hot"

Quote:

 ever thought about the shortening of their lifetime?


Sure - one of the reasons I'm one of the "turn it off when not in use" advocates rather than someone who leaves their equipment on 24/7.  I also keep a single rack space empty above my one piece of tube gear (Pendulum OCL-2) after experiencing first hand one of the tubes going bad prematurely prior to doing so.  The fact that my gear doesn't have anything surrounding it in the open Quiklok rack probably helps things to ventilate a little bit. Other than that - I still have a need to keep things compact and so far (knock on wood) haven't experienced problems from gear getting warm.

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: compasspnt on May 24, 2009, 01:17:18 pm
You guys are scaredy cats.

There is no need to worry about tube heat dissipation, if you do things right.


Her is a photo of my new "in room" rack cooler being installed last week...

index.php/fa/12346/0/

Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: dcollins on May 24, 2009, 04:53:54 pm
compasspnt wrote on Sun, 24 May 2009 10:17

You guys are scaredy cats.



Indeed.index.php/fa/12352/0/
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Mark Wilder on May 24, 2009, 07:08:30 pm
Having worked trough a few rooms recently, I have to say I feel like a rock star in the new room.  Those items I use most often are within the four rack widths in front/side of me.  Those items I rarely touch or that I don't need to adjust while listening are wider out. What is not in the picture is a rear rack between myself and the couch (Sterling, slanted-no casters) with the
XLR patchbay, turntable, DAT, DVD player.  The screen is on a swing arm which allows me to lay it flat while mastering and pull it forward while editing.

I worked long and hard with Dom on the setup of this room.  I wouldn't change a thing.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: TotalSonic on May 24, 2009, 07:46:28 pm
Mark Wilder wrote on Sun, 24 May 2009 19:08

Having worked trough a few rooms recently, I have to say I feel like a rock star in the new room.  Those items I use most often are within the four rack widths in front/side of me.  Those items I rarely touch or that I don't need to adjust while listening are wider out. What is not in the picture is a rear rack between myself and the couch (Sterling, slanted-no casters) with the
XLR patchbay, turntable, DAT, DVD player.  The screen is on a swing arm which allows me to lay it flat while mastering and pull it forward while editing.

I worked long and hard with Dom on the setup of this room.  I wouldn't change a thing.


Your new room looks beautiful Mark!  

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Ed Littman on May 25, 2009, 01:11:27 am
Silvertone wrote on Sun, 24 May 2009 08:37

Personally I just can't have the computer monitor where phantom center is, it just messes me up... having a console in front of me is hard enough.



I Just recently removed the computer monitors from the desk area & installed 2 32" TV's on the front wall...kind of a bitch with the existing acoustic paneling but ended up right.It sounds better too.

My pet peeve about the sterling desks is that i have to reach long for some gear & stand up to document settings. There's a small pitch in the floor from the studios original Garage days. I've gotten used to holding my chair so it does not roll back but some times i forget & come close to landing my arse to the floor. Not the coolest act while clients are there. I guess one of these days I'll have a desk made with steaper racks.There still is an advantage to the old rack n' roll system that Steve has.
Ed

index.php/fa/12356/0/
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: TotalSonic on May 25, 2009, 02:48:01 am
Ed Littman wrote on Mon, 25 May 2009 01:11


I Just recently removed the computer monitors from the desk area & installed 2 32" TV's on the front wall...kind of a bitch with the existing acoustic paneling but ended up right.It sounds better too.


Looks cool!  My big fear with doing this though is that in an attended session the client would get obsessed with what is on the screen (after all we've been trained by lots years to pay attention by what's on the "TV") rather than just listening.  Personally I try to keep my own focus off of the DAW as well, so for now think I'm going to deal with the computer monitors as small as I can deal with them (running dual 15" here) and pushed off to the side.

index.php/fa/12356/0/

Ed - also got to say that the Buzz EQ looks AWESOME in your desk!  How about a close up?

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: finetuner on May 25, 2009, 07:44:40 am
Recently traded this:

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/4521/studioold.jpg

for this:

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/7803/studionew.jpg

Feels much better, sounds a bit better too.
No problems doing the editing sideways now. Went for a custom desk more or less like Sterling but with more writing space and a slightly steeper angle.


@ Steve: No problems reading the small print on your screens that way ?
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Mark Wilder on May 25, 2009, 08:16:26 am
TotalSonic wrote on Sun, 24 May 2009 19:46


Your new room looks beautiful Mark!


Thank you Steve, but I have to give props to Carl Rowatti and WSDG for the esthetic.  We just moved in and made it our own.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: bblackwood on May 25, 2009, 10:19:25 am
As you can see here, I prefer the 'monitor off to the side' approach with a small-footprint desk. Still need to get the trim guys in here...

(crappy iphone camera pic)
http://euphonicmasters.com/misc/euphonic_desk_0509.JPG

Been considering one large screen on the front wall but I don't want the DAW to become the focal point.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Ed Littman on May 25, 2009, 11:26:37 am
Quote:

Ed - also got to say that the Buzz EQ looks AWESOME in your desk!  How about a close up?

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Ok You asked for it. Tv's on the wall so far have not been a problem with clients sonic focus.
index.php/fa/12358/0/
Crappy Photographer..camera is ok
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Phil Demetro on May 25, 2009, 11:58:44 am
Some impressive rooms!

I've just gone through a major shift from Soffit speakers to floorstanders. It changed literally everything! I had to go to a smaller desk, put the screens to the side, add feet to the speakers to get the tweeter to ear height, then add a sub due to the lost rumble of the speakers being raised.....sigh. Big job.

It changed my workflow a bit but my work sounds better. Main gear in a Sterling modular plan A. Side rack houses comps and converters. The monitor stand solves most issues other than my left ear get more attention when I'm editing or if I'm using plugins.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: mastertone on May 25, 2009, 11:59:18 am
Nice desk Brad!

What is the bottom left rack? And what do you do with that green button?
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: bblackwood on May 25, 2009, 12:07:18 pm
mastertone wrote on Mon, 25 May 2009 10:59

Nice desk Brad!

Thanks! It's a custom Sterling Modular.

Quote:

What is the bottom left rack? And what do you do with that green button?

Bottom piece is a pair of passive M/S attenuators, box above it is the M/S matrix (active, SS).
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Viitalahde on May 25, 2009, 12:21:35 pm
Screen on the side makes sense to me. My previous solution of getting completely out of the sweet spot while editing was confusing, but maybe this would work. If I moved the screen on the side, my desk could also be much smaller.

Do you guys sit at an angle to the speakers while editing?

I in fact find I'm doing it already.. Partially because I want to be communicatin with the customers present better, but I think it's also because I want to get slightly out of the sweet spot and "zoom out".
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: TotalSonic on May 25, 2009, 12:38:33 pm
Viitalahde wrote on Mon, 25 May 2009 12:21

Screen on the side makes sense to me. My previous solution of getting completely out of the sweet spot while editing was confusing, but maybe this would work. If I moved the screen on the side, my desk could also be much smaller.

Do you guys sit at an angle to the speakers while editing?


Yup.  Headphones sometimes go on for real extensive editing.  EQ and compression decisions made facing forward front and center.

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: TotalSonic on May 25, 2009, 12:44:34 pm
finetuner wrote on Mon, 25 May 2009 07:44


@ Steve: No problems reading the small print on your screens that way ?


Nope.  I can see everything just fine.  Nice thing with my main DAW app (SAWStudio) is you can instantly go to a custom view of whatever elements of the DAW environment you want to see at whatever size you want them to be just by hitting an F-key.

I have a separate office computer for internet surfing, book keeping, web design, FTP, customer tracking, etc. that has a 22" screen.  

btw - Your new setup looks really nice!

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Phil Demetro on May 25, 2009, 12:53:34 pm
The monitor stand I use has castors....so i'm constantly moving it in and out of the picture. I'll sometimes swivel it around to face the speakers when editing. This approach has forced me to use headphones for checking the occasional fade. This is something I never had to do before when I had the soffit speakers.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: jdg on May 25, 2009, 01:38:09 pm
i've used be all about  side LCD monitoring, but i had to ditch it.  i was getting serious neck and back pains.. most likely from a previous injury.   i've settled for a smaller LCD out front that i can tilt and move out of the way if needed.

the large screens way out front like Ed would work best for me.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: bblackwood on May 25, 2009, 01:40:30 pm
jdg wrote on Mon, 25 May 2009 12:38

i've used be all about  side LCD monitoring, but i had to ditch it.  i was getting serious neck and back pains.. most likely from a previous injury.   i've settled for a smaller LCD out front that i can tilt and move out of the way if needed.

the large screens way out front like Ed would work best for me.

Yah, that's precisely why I've been considering the big screen approach. I just don't care for that look. That being said, in every other way it's the superior answer - computer monitor is out of the monitor path and you can continue to look straight ahead while working...
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Mark Wilder on May 25, 2009, 02:21:15 pm
My screen used to be off to the side, but there are times where I'll switch from input to playback while EQ'ing just to insure I'm on target.  So with the screen off to the side, my head is spinning in circles and I'm paying less attention to the music and more attention to where I am on the screen.  Now with the screen in front, I'm much more focused forward.  I can flatten out the screen tilt and lay it lower than the front of my desk where It has no sonic footprint while I'm mastering.  Then I can drag it up into my face for editing.  And with the smaller footprint desk, putting the monitor off to the side would interfere with monitoring.  I'm just tickled with this set up.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: David Glasser on May 25, 2009, 03:38:38 pm
Mark Wilder wrote on Mon, 25 May 2009 12:21

My screen used to be off to the side, but there are times where I'll switch from input to playback while EQ'ing just to insure I'm on target.  So with the screen off to the side, my head is spinning in circles and I'm paying less attention to the music and more attention to where I am on the screen.  Now with the screen in front, I'm much more focused forward.


Very nice setup Mark. I experimented with monitor placement as well. Originally I had the screen on an arm that I could push low, to the side, as shown in this photo, or place dead center for editing. I rarely moved the screen from the side position. New setup is the screen & keyboard on a cart to the side of the desk. Being somewhat off-axis while editing has not been a problem, and there's always headphones. The screen is switchable to 3 workstations.

While I'm EQ-ing the main keyboard moves are pressing the spacebar and toggling Input/Playback, so this works fine and the screen is totally out of the way and out of sight. The 3 bay-wide desk is also the right size for both myself and the client to sit side-by-side if we want. The space capsule cockpit approach doesn't really work for me.

The center bay is the Maselec surround console and metering; processing is in the other 2 bays, except for some minimal-control items like a Fairman and L2 which are in a rolling rack. Converters, disc playback, and other misc. stuff are in the side rack.


index.php/fa/12361/0/
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: MoreSpaceEcho on May 25, 2009, 03:49:24 pm
man you guys all have awesome looking rooms. *sigh*

bblackwood wrote on Mon, 25 May 2009 18:40

 I've been considering the big screen approach. I just don't care for that look. That being said, in every other way it's the superior answer - computer monitor is out of the monitor path and you can continue to look straight ahead while working...


i like the projector approach, like mssrs ward and weston have at their place...

http://www.chicagomasteringservice.com/images/controlroomfinal.jpg
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: finetuner on May 25, 2009, 05:42:39 pm
TotalSonic wrote on Mon, 25 May 2009 18:44

... I have a separate office computer for internet surfing, book keeping, web design, FTP, customer tracking, etc. that has a 22" screen..


Ah that makes sense too.
I've been thinking about a small extra computer to offer clients internet access, provided a strict user account management obviously..

TotalSonic wrote on Mon, 25 May 2009 18:44

...
btw - Your new setup looks really nice!

thanks!
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: crna59 on May 25, 2009, 06:52:10 pm
Here is a custom desk we had built. It's on wheels and is only about 30" high. The equipment is now in the center and right sections with the monitor in the left section. We also have a custom rack in the back for converters, transports, tape and such.

index.php/fa/12362/0/

Regards,
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: jfrigo on May 25, 2009, 07:33:43 pm
There's a balance to be found between ergonomics and acoustics. A person needs to accomplish work in the room every day, and for me, that means having a console of some kind. However, it makes sense to keep it as small as possible, pay attention to the angles for reflections into the listening position, and I've even built acoustic treatments into key spots in the desk. If more space is needed, add low angled racks to the sides. Also it pays to keep the bottom open, instead of everything closed off right down to the floor.

As for screens (video/computer monitors), there are 2 in my space. One is on a small rolling cart off to the side (not pictured). I can move it closer if I'm doing a lot of editing, or leave it out of the way if EQing. The mouse and keyboard are wireless, so I can put those on the main console, or leave them on the cart as desired.

The second screen is in front of the room. We do a lot of concert video, so sometimes it displays the corresponding picture. It can also be switched to display a second computer, or to be a second monitor for the main computer, dual desktop, or mirrored. It's a pretty flexible setup.

http://promastering.com/images/studioweb.jpg

Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Ed Littman on May 25, 2009, 08:13:01 pm
TotalSonic wrote on Mon, 25 May 2009 12:44

 

I have a separate office computer for internet surfing, book keeping, web design, FTP, customer tracking, etc. that has a 22" screen.  



Best regards,
Steve Berson



Yes very nice rooms around here, & jeewiz so clean & uncluttered.

I have two computers too located in in the next room closet. I use the same TV's to monitor both ...just use a KVM switch located under the desk.

If anyone uses a projector....how do you addres the fan noise that they all have?

Ed
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: TotalSonic on May 25, 2009, 08:55:25 pm
bblackwood wrote on Mon, 25 May 2009 10:19

Still need to get the trim guys in here...


I'm wondering whose project is more like "Chinese Democracy" here - me waiting to finally sand, stain and poly the shabby hardwood floors in here (been procrastinating on this at least a year now) - or you waiting to put in the trim into your room!  At least I have a better excuse - as I'll have to load out everything from my room and suffer probably a week downtime while doing this.

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: TotalSonic on May 25, 2009, 08:57:23 pm
Ed Littman wrote on Mon, 25 May 2009 20:13


Yes very nice rooms around here, & jeewiz so clean & uncluttered.


Unfortunately that definitely does not describe my room currently!  But I'm working on it.

Quote:


I have two computers too located in in the next room closet. I use the same TV's to monitor both ...just use a KVM switch located under the desk.


Yeah - I have the exact same setup here except the KVM goes to LCD's instead of TV monitors.  I have one DAW for playback, the other for capture/final assembly.  

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: bblackwood on May 25, 2009, 09:01:55 pm
TotalSonic wrote on Mon, 25 May 2009 19:55

bblackwood wrote on Mon, 25 May 2009 10:19

Still need to get the trim guys in here...


I'm wondering whose project is more like "Chinese Democracy" here - me waiting to finally sand, stain and poly the shabby hardwood floors in here (been procrastinating on this at least a year now) - or you waiting to put in the trim into your room!  At least I have a better excuse - as I'll have to load out everything from my room and suffer probably a week downtime while doing this.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

With approx 375' linear of trim to cut, dry fit, stain, poly, then final fit, I'm looking at more than a week's down time - I'm just way too busy to schedule that much time off.

Hopefully by the end of the summer...

And to be fair, I initially waited on the trim to insure the acoustics were perfect - once I finally finished that up (last October thank you Tom @ Northward!) I was ready for trim in earnest, so it's only been seven months...

Of course, once that's done, the room is FINISHED! Yay™.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Greg Reierson on May 26, 2009, 11:16:33 pm
jdg wrote on Sat, 23 May 2009 13:14

TotalSonic wrote on Sat, 23 May 2009 10:51

I've got that same exact space heater for my studio as well!



me 2




Me 3... Are we on to something?


GR
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: compasspnt on May 26, 2009, 11:47:45 pm
Greg Reierson wrote on Tue, 26 May 2009 23:16

Me 3... Are we on to something?



Warm Reverberation?
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: crna59 on May 27, 2009, 12:57:01 am
jdg wrote on Sat, 23 May 2009 13:14

TotalSonic wrote on Sat, 23 May 2009 10:51

I've got that same exact space heater for my studio as well!



me 2




Space heater? Just get a pair of Pass Labs XA amps...  You'll be needing AC just to work in there!


Regards,
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: mastertone on May 27, 2009, 03:03:33 am
Greg Reierson wrote on Tue, 26 May 2009 22:16

jdg wrote on Sat, 23 May 2009 13:14

TotalSonic wrote on Sat, 23 May 2009 10:51

I've got that same exact space heater for my studio as well!



me 2




Me 3... Are we on to something?


GR


Yeah, its a good heater.  Smile
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Peter Beckmann on May 27, 2009, 05:44:24 am
Greg Reierson wrote on Wed, 27 May 2009 04:16

jdg wrote on Sat, 23 May 2009 13:14

TotalSonic wrote on Sat, 23 May 2009 10:51

I've got that same exact space heater for my studio as well!



me 2




Me 3... Are we on to something?


GR


Me 6, although I now never need to use it. Plenty of Manley and Cranesong boxes will keep most anywhere more than warm enough!!

peter
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: mcsnare on May 28, 2009, 02:42:51 pm
You guys sure have some good looking rooms out there, but they can't possibly sound good cause I don't see any bales of insulation anywhere.

Dave
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: jdg on May 28, 2009, 02:56:11 pm
mcsnare wrote on Thu, 28 May 2009 11:42

You guys sure have some good looking rooms out there, but they can't possibly sound good cause I don't see any bales of insulation anywhere.

Dave


ahhh. but i didn't post a picture (yet)

(still moving into the new space.. make shift acoustic treatment is everywhere)
index.php/fa/12385/0/
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: mcsnare on May 30, 2009, 12:10:35 am
I'd feel right at home in that room.

Dave
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Thomas W. Bethel on June 01, 2009, 08:43:32 am
You have to see this. Someone has way too much money....

 http://www.kipnis-studios.com/The_Kipnis_Studio_Standard/Scr eening_Room.html
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: KAyo on June 02, 2009, 08:30:48 pm
livingstone wrote on Fri, 22 May 2009 18:06

Hi Jaako,

i found it very interesting
acousticaly first, it's subtile but it sounds better
ergonomicaly, when the racks are placed at the exact right distance the hands find they way immediatly without even a look
i don't look numbers and stay more focused on the music
like an active listener
and globaly that's the best part of it

i have to dig more into it it's very new



Hey angstrom-mastering,

Really liked the room and the set-up too.
There’s that vintage & simplistic aoura about it.. which I admire a lot.
And the ceiling is wow factor for sure..  just goes to show, a simplistic angle is still so workable.

Thanks mate, inspiring stuff.
Ciao’

KAyo
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: KAyo on June 02, 2009, 09:17:14 pm
bblackwood wrote on Mon, 25 May 2009 09:19

As you can see here, I prefer the 'monitor off to the side' approach with a small-footprint desk. Still need to get the trim guys in here...

(crappy iphone camera pic)
http://euphonicmasters.com/misc/euphonic_desk_0509.JPG

Been considering one large screen on the front wall but I don't want the DAW to become the focal point.


Hey people…
This has turned out to be such a great, interesting and informative thread… really!
Always wondered what Brad’s setup was like.. and boom!... here we have it. Ed's made a few changes, and some rooms I've never seen before.

Thus, a source for dreaming, as and when I build mine.
Thanks guys..

Ciao’
KAyo

PS: Brad, whats the last rack on the right.. looks Maselec, but which one?
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: bblackwood on June 02, 2009, 09:49:12 pm
KAyo wrote on Tue, 02 June 2009 20:17

PS: Brad, whats the last rack on the right.. looks Maselec, but which one?

The bottom right is my analog transfer/monitor console.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: dietrich on June 02, 2009, 10:49:38 pm
I find this topic inspiring as well as a bit depressing.

Still in transition from full time electronic music studio to mastering room which for now also features the neumann which cannot be easily tucked in the corner.
Loads of wasted space on the 'workstation' desk which at time was filled with synth modules and likes. It is about 8ft across and I cannot for the budget to free up space to replace it. Two room setup next year...

And +5 for the same space heater.

Some slick rooms for sure on here
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: jdg on June 02, 2009, 11:25:17 pm
how many ppl use trackballs?

seems like alot...
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: compasspnt on June 02, 2009, 11:51:23 pm
jdg wrote on Tue, 02 June 2009 23:25

how many ppl use trackballs?



Never!
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: TotalSonic on June 03, 2009, 12:53:42 am
compasspnt wrote on Tue, 02 June 2009 23:51

jdg wrote on Tue, 02 June 2009 23:25

how many ppl use trackballs?



Never!



Same here.  Never could quite "get" trackballs.  

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Jerry Tubb on June 03, 2009, 01:21:30 am
jdg wrote on Tue, 02 June 2009 22:25

how many ppl use trackballs?

seems like alot...


Yep, I'm a believer in the Kensington really big "expert" trackball saved my arm, shoulder, etc, from 20 years of mouse "abuse".

index.php/fa/12454/0/

JT
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: dcollins on June 03, 2009, 01:52:05 am
compasspnt wrote on Tue, 02 June 2009 20:51

jdg wrote on Tue, 02 June 2009 23:25

how many ppl use trackballs?



Never!



Same here.


DC
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: dcollins on June 03, 2009, 01:54:41 am
bblackwood wrote on Tue, 02 June 2009 18:49

KAyo wrote on Tue, 02 June 2009 20:17

PS: Brad, whats the last rack on the right.. looks Maselec, but which one?

The bottom right is my analog transfer/monitor console.


That doesn't look like an audiophile AC outlet on the left.


DC
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: jdg on June 03, 2009, 01:55:51 am
dcollins wrote on Tue, 02 June 2009 22:52

compasspnt wrote on Tue, 02 June 2009 20:51

jdg wrote on Tue, 02 June 2009 23:25

how many ppl use trackballs?



Never!



Same here.


DC


haha the one on your desk is for just for sweeting your chain
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: bblackwood on June 03, 2009, 07:08:02 am
dcollins wrote on Wed, 03 June 2009 00:54

bblackwood wrote on Tue, 02 June 2009 18:49

KAyo wrote on Tue, 02 June 2009 20:17

PS: Brad, whats the last rack on the right.. looks Maselec, but which one?

The bottom right is my analog transfer/monitor console.


That doesn't look like an audiophile AC outlet on the left.


DC

Yah, just your run-of-the-mill 20-amp, home-run ground electrical circuit.

I can only imagine how much better it would sound with something that cost as much as my amplifier!

As for trackballs, due to RSI I moved to one years ago, though the normal ones were weird to me. Once I found the microsoft trackball optical I was hooked...

Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Peter Beckmann on June 03, 2009, 07:08:44 am
Jerry Tubb wrote on Wed, 03 June 2009 06:21



Yep, I'm a believer in the Kensington really big "expert" trackball saved my arm, shoulder, etc, from 20 years of mouse "abuse".

index.php/fa/12454/0/

JT


Jerry, are we twins or something?

Exact same trackball here:
index.php/fa/12458/0/

Great thing with the expert is being able to programme different key strokes for different apps on the buttons. So I've got a few shortcuts for soundblade and Protools on mine.

Trackball on the right, shuttle pro on the left. All good!

Peter

Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Waltz Mastering on June 03, 2009, 09:20:54 am
My footprint is not as small as I'd like. conventional mouse, gas heat/ac...

index.php/fa/12460/0/
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Jerry Tubb on June 03, 2009, 10:12:00 am
Peter Beckmann wrote on Wed, 03 June 2009 06:08

Jerry, are we twins or something?

Exact same trackball here:

Great thing with the expert is being able to programme different key strokes for different apps on the buttons. So I've got a few shortcuts for soundblade and Protools on mine.


Hey Peter, seems the proper solution ...great minds thinking alike in parallel universes!
I use "right click" a lot, I need to get hip to the trackball shortcuts <(: - )~

Cheers - JT
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Peter Beckmann on June 03, 2009, 10:34:12 am
Hey Jerry.

I've set up the trackball with the two close buttons as left and right click as normal, and then in PT the upper right button is transport start and stop [so i can edit and play/stop without moving either hand] and the upper left button is shift-rightclik, so I can click on a track or mixer strip in PT to scroll the track into view.

In SB, I again programmed upper right click to be transport play stop, and upper left button is control-leftclick, for certain SB commands.

Anything for a little efficiency saving!


Peter
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Sonovo on June 03, 2009, 05:35:51 pm
I went from a rolling rack and a couch to a desk, and don't plan on returning. As nice as it seemed on paper, it was killing my back having to lean back and forth all day long. Much better with a real desk, despite being acoustically non-optimal.



index.php/fa/12467/0/


Cheers,
Thor

Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: mike shelton on June 03, 2009, 08:25:35 pm
Don't forget that you can program chords...pushing both the left and right buttons...

I searched ebay to find the Kensington Expert Mouse Pro, a wireless trackball that also has 6 programmable buttons that I can program to fire macros or any hotkeys...I couldn't imagine working without it.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: MoreSpaceEcho on June 03, 2009, 09:24:34 pm
i don't have a slick looking room...or a trackball...but i do have TWO of those space heaters.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: prolearts on June 03, 2009, 10:50:05 pm
Ed Littman wrote on Mon, 25 May 2009 19:13

TotalSonic wrote on Mon, 25 May 2009 12:44

 

I have a separate office computer for internet surfing, book keeping, web design, FTP, customer tracking, etc. that has a 22" screen.  



Best regards,
Steve Berson



Yes very nice rooms around here, & jeewiz so clean & uncluttered.

I have two computers too located in in the next room closet. I use the same TV's to monitor both ...just use a KVM switch located under the desk.

If anyone uses a projector....how do you addres the fan noise that they all have?

Ed


Projectors are definitely getting quieter. We address the issue by having it in a big box with a couple of very slow, low noise fans moving air through a diffuse entrance and exit path in it. The leftover noise is quieter than our ATR.


best,
J. Ward
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: T. Mueller on June 04, 2009, 12:56:37 pm
I'm a TV/floor rack/couch guy for now, moving to a desk soon for several reasons, one of which is ergonomic.  40" LCD TV is on the wall out of the monitor path.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: bblackwood on June 26, 2009, 10:04:45 am
TotalSonic wrote on Mon, 25 May 2009 19:55

bblackwood wrote on Mon, 25 May 2009 10:19

Still need to get the trim guys in here...


I'm wondering whose project is more like "Chinese Democracy" here - me waiting to finally sand, stain and poly the shabby hardwood floors in here (been procrastinating on this at least a year now) - or you waiting to put in the trim into your room!  At least I have a better excuse - as I'll have to load out everything from my room and suffer probably a week downtime while doing this.

You get that floor done yet?

We're getting close here - still have some things to tighten up but a majority of the trim work is done...

index.php/fa/12656/0/
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Peter Beckmann on June 26, 2009, 10:13:06 am
Looks nice Brad.

The shape of the trapped area behind your B&Ws looks very similar to the one in Darius's place in Amsterdam. Is that one of Thomas's design signatures?

Back to doing some work now...

P.S.
Don't let Terry see that chair  Razz


Peter
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: bblackwood on June 26, 2009, 10:18:04 am
Peter Beckmann wrote on Fri, 26 June 2009 09:13

Looks nice Brad.

Thanks. When it's done I'll have it shot professionally, but this is good enough for now.

Quote:

The shape of the trapped area behind your B&Ws looks very similar to the one in Darius's place in Amsterdam. Is that one of Thomas's design signatures?

I think it is, I believe he calls it a 'cockpit' design.

Quote:

P.S.
Don't let Terry see that chair  Razz

Photoshop!
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: TotalSonic on June 26, 2009, 12:12:21 pm
bblackwood wrote on Fri, 26 June 2009 10:04


You get that floor done yet?

We're getting close here - still have some things to tighten up but a majority of the trim work is done...


Brad -
Looks like you beat me to the finish line - your room looks excellent!

Seems first half of July could be on the slowish side here so I'm thinking I might be able to finally get to my floors soon though.

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Viitalahde on June 26, 2009, 01:45:43 pm
Oh yes, I like that, Brad! It's good to have nothing but blank on the wall between the speakers - I like a "zen" state myself when staring forwards, listening.

This has been an extremely valuable topic. It made me re-consider my rolling rack thoughts. A small-profile console will be better for me, even if there is a small sonic signature.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: mcsnare on June 26, 2009, 04:23:34 pm
Looks SWEET,BB! Now I wanna see some closeups that show all the BBQ grease smudge marks and beer can rings on the desktop.

Dave
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Jerry Tubb on June 26, 2009, 05:28:58 pm
Lookin' good Brad!

I see you've chosen the Red color scheme favored by Dave Collins & Bob Katz : - )

JT
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: TotalSonic on June 26, 2009, 05:50:09 pm
Viitalahde wrote on Fri, 26 June 2009 13:45

Oh yes, I like that, Brad! It's good to have nothing but blank on the wall between the speakers


Completely disagree!  I have an oil painting on canvas of an abstract guitar(complete with real guitar strings and frets) by my grandfather at this location - literally helps me keep "centered" when working.

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Jerry Tubb on June 26, 2009, 07:16:13 pm
TotalSonic wrote on Fri, 26 June 2009 16:50

I have an oil painting on canvas of an abstract guitar


Parallel universe Steve!

My room features several of my wife's abstract music paintings, including this one:

index.php/fa/12665/0/

JT
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: TotalSonic on June 27, 2009, 01:28:54 am
Jerry Tubb wrote on Fri, 26 June 2009 19:16

TotalSonic wrote on Fri, 26 June 2009 16:50

I have an oil painting on canvas of an abstract guitar


Parallel universe Steve!

My room features several of my wife's abstract music paintings, including this one:

index.php/fa/12665/0/

JT


Jerry -
Very cool painting!  Please post up some more!

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: mastertone on June 27, 2009, 05:48:45 am
Brad, your new room looks great!
Whats the ceiling height over the desk / listening position?
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: bblackwood on June 27, 2009, 08:14:46 am
mastertone wrote on Sat, 27 June 2009 04:48

Whats the ceiling height over the desk / listening position?

Right at 8' (2.4 m).
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: TotalSonic on June 27, 2009, 05:59:18 pm
bblackwood wrote on Sat, 27 June 2009 08:14

mastertone wrote on Sat, 27 June 2009 04:48

Whats the ceiling height over the desk / listening position?

Right at 8' (2.4 m).


So is there a treatment "cloud" above listening position lower than the rest of the ceiling?

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: bblackwood on June 27, 2009, 06:17:44 pm
TotalSonic wrote on Sat, 27 June 2009 16:59

bblackwood wrote on Sat, 27 June 2009 08:14

mastertone wrote on Sat, 27 June 2009 04:48

Whats the ceiling height over the desk / listening position?

Right at 8' (2.4 m).


So is there a treatment "cloud" above listening position lower than the rest of the ceiling?  

Yah, it's about 4" deep.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: TotalSonic on June 27, 2009, 06:26:17 pm
bblackwood wrote on Sat, 27 June 2009 18:17

TotalSonic wrote on Sat, 27 June 2009 16:59

bblackwood wrote on Sat, 27 June 2009 08:14

mastertone wrote on Sat, 27 June 2009 04:48

Whats the ceiling height over the desk / listening position?

Right at 8' (2.4 m).


So is there a treatment "cloud" above listening position lower than the rest of the ceiling?  

Yah, it's about 4" deep.


Curious - what's the height of the rest of the ceiling?  How big is the cloud?  Is the treatment absorption or diffusion and absorption?

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: bblackwood on June 27, 2009, 06:39:07 pm
TotalSonic wrote on Sat, 27 June 2009 17:26

bblackwood wrote on Sat, 27 June 2009 18:17

TotalSonic wrote on Sat, 27 June 2009 16:59

So is there a treatment "cloud" above listening position lower than the rest of the ceiling?  

Yah, it's about 4" deep.


Curious - what's the height of the rest of the ceiling?  How big is the cloud?  Is the treatment absorption or diffusion and absorption?

Ceiling height is about 8' throughout. The cloud is approximately 8'x8' and is absorptive (fiberglass with small airspace behind it to emulate a higher ceiling). Imaging width, height and depth are amazing - a testament to Tom's design...
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Adam Dempsey on June 28, 2009, 09:13:36 am
Looks very nice & tidy, Brad.
Interesting though... personally I couldn't stand the red. As a kid, two of my aunties worked at a small independent cinema. We used to go see all the movies during school holidays and I recall seeing the original 'Tron' - all that red & blue gave me a headache.
More of a neutral colour scheme here, and natural light through the side door during the day. Kudos to misters Mantz & Augspurger.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: bblackwood on June 28, 2009, 09:24:00 am
For the record, my hack photography skills are showing here as it's not really as RED! as it looks there, it's Guilford of Maine 2100-556 (Deep Burgundy). Regardless, I find it quite nice as initially the front wall was a boring bone-colored fabric.

Red cars, blue cars...
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: bblackwood on June 28, 2009, 09:25:05 am
Jerry Tubb wrote on Fri, 26 June 2009 16:28

Lookin' good Brad!

Thanks!

Quote:

I see you've chosen the Red color scheme favored by Dave Collins & Bob Katz

Hrm, I know DC has some red in his room but I don't recall Bob having any red in his room - reference pic?
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Jerry Tubb on June 28, 2009, 09:40:24 am
bblackwood wrote on Sun, 28 June 2009 08:25

Jerry Tubb wrote on Fri, 26 June 2009 16:28

Lookin' good Brad!

Thanks!

Quote:

I see you've chosen the Red color scheme favored by Dave Collins & Bob Katz

Hrm, I know DC has some red in his room but I don't recall Bob having any red in his room - reference pic?


Remember a couple years ago we were pokin' fun at Bob's red & blue curtains?
 http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/220174/8440/?sr ch=shiny#msg_220174

Just funnin' with you Brad... looks great! Very tidy.

Where the CPU and Studer, off to the side or in a machine room?

JT
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: bblackwood on June 28, 2009, 10:11:23 am
Jerry Tubb wrote on Sun, 28 June 2009 08:40

Remember a couple years ago we were pokin' fun at Bob's red & blue curtains?
  http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/220174/8440/?sr ch=shiny#msg_220174

Oh, I'd call that 'plum', or maybe 'purple'.

And you're ruthless...

hehe

Quote:

Where the CPU and Studer, off to the side or in a machine room?

There's a separate machine room for the computers and UPS's. Studer is in the back of the room:

index.php/fa/12670/0/
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Waltz Mastering on June 28, 2009, 11:35:47 am
bblackwood wrote on Sun, 28 June 2009 09:24

it's Guilford of Maine 2100-556 (Deep Burgundy)


Nice room Brad...I've used Guilford of Maine    http://www.fabricmate.com/guilford.php?gclid=CPCt1tmirZsCFVR M5Qod8TRFoA for acoustic fabric before, a little pricey but nice...  

Question for Thor?  I noticed the Magnapan speakers and remember hearing these a while ago (20 some years)  I recall them being very realistic sounding and wonder how they are working out for you? They have a very unique design.  Can they push some air?  The model that you have I think can get  down pretty low.  I haven't seen these much and was curious?
Sonovo wrote on Wed, 03 June 2009 17:35


index.php/fa/12467/0/
Cheers,
Thor




Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Jerry Tubb on June 28, 2009, 01:17:47 pm
bblackwood wrote on Sun, 28 June 2009 09:11

Jerry Tubb wrote on Sun, 28 June 2009 08:40

Remember a couple years ago we were pokin' fun at Bob's red & blue curtains?
       http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/220174/8440/?sr ch=shiny#msg_220174

Oh, I'd call that 'plum', or maybe 'purple'.

And you're ruthless...

hehe

or plum ruthless (since Ruth walked out on me)

Quote:

Where the CPU and Studer, off to the side or in a machine room?

Quote:

There's a separate machine room for the computers and UPS's. Studer is in the back of the room:

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Most excellent Brad, room looks great.

I gotta get me one of 'them clouds.

Oh and Happy Birthday!

JT
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: tom eaton on June 28, 2009, 08:50:33 pm
the cloud is a concept that i really, really like.

and having built three for my control room, i can honestly say that i've looked at clouds from both sides now.

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Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: dave-G on June 28, 2009, 09:46:15 pm
Brad, it might indeed be GOM "Ron Burgundy", but from the first time I saw you using that stuff, I thought for sure the color scheme was not-so-subliminally "Tidal Crimson" ... no?

-dave

Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: bblackwood on June 28, 2009, 09:53:35 pm
dave-G wrote on Sun, 28 June 2009 20:46

Brad, it might indeed be GOM "Ron Burgundy", but from the first time I saw you using that stuff, I thought for sure the color scheme was not-so-subliminally "Tidal Crimson" ... no?

Possibly...
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Sonovo on June 30, 2009, 03:30:01 pm
Hi,

They're working fine for me, thanks. I think maybe a lot of people would hate having to work on them, as you don't get the same effect as with cones & boxes.

Due to budget considerations, I have the mid-range model, which is quite affordable. This model is limited in LFE, they roll off around 35Hz. The top model, 20.1, goes to around 25Hz and offers somewhat improved dynamics due to a fully symmetrical driver configuration.

I plan on getting 3 more soon for the 5.1 expansion we've been planning, and am looking forward to hearing how that works.

From my perspective, they are very realistic sounding, very revealing, have excellent micro and macrodynamic reproduction (albeit the 20.1 is a bit better at the latter) , good extension at both frequency extremes and in general a well balanced presentation with first rate stereo imaging & soundstage depth. I.e. the play what's there, nothing more, nothing less.

They can indeed push some air. My room is about 65-70m2, and when I turn things up to stupid loud the speakers willingly comply. The thing is that with well recorded material you don't really realize how loud it actually is until you try to talk...

The first real move I made as a young audiophile (or audio fool Rolling Eyes) years ago was to move to a pair of electrostatic speakers, and later OTL mono blocks. A combination that's hard to forget! From my perspective electrostatics lack a bit of the body and weight needed to really reproduce all styles of music convincingly. The Magnepans offer much of the detail and transient response of a 'stat, but with better midrange weight and heft.

I've tried conventional speakers off and on since, but really like the Maggies.

They're not perfect, but what is?

Cheers,
Thor



Waltz Mastering wrote on Sun, 28 June 2009 12:35


Question for Thor?  I noticed the Magnapan speakers and remember hearing these a while ago (20 some years)  I recall them being very realistic sounding and wonder how they are working out for you? They have a very unique design.  Can they push some air?  The model that you have I think can get  down pretty low.  I haven't seen these much and was curious?
Sonovo wrote on Wed, 03 June 2009 17:35


index.php/fa/12467/0/
Cheers,
Thor






Rolling Eyes
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Waltz Mastering on July 01, 2009, 10:01:51 pm
Thanks,  Magnapan's were the first  speakers that I can remember hearing that really blew me away...and I hadn't seen them in a while..best.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Viitalahde on April 25, 2010, 06:12:18 am
I'm gravedigging again, bringing up old topics.

When I started this topic, I didn't know yet I'd be building a new room in 2010. Things have went further quite a bit.

I'm pretty much settled for the big screen in the front, behind the speakers approach. I checked out a few screens and it looks something like a 42" screen would be plenty from a distance of, say, 2,5 metres.

The desk is going to be sterlingish, but made by a custom carpenter. Two rows of racks in front, maybe 12 or 13HE. Minimum profile.

Have you guys made updates in your rooms? I love seeing photos for inspiration.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: bblackwood on April 25, 2010, 07:18:19 am
Viitalahde wrote on Sun, 25 April 2010 05:12

I'm pretty much settled for the big screen in the front, behind the speakers approach. I checked out a few screens and it looks something like a 42" screen would be plenty from a distance of, say, 2,5 metres.

Yah, I'm *this* close to doing the same, though I need about a 52" or so for the screen to be 'the same size' as the 21" I'm using now.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Viitalahde on April 25, 2010, 11:47:51 am
Could be I need a bigger one, too. I'm a bit of an idiot with TV/screen sizes, because I don't own/watch TV.

Honestly, even the big screen approach makes me gringe my teeth. As much as I'd like to have *nothing* there, I doubt it's not going to happen. Not unless someone builds me a robot that magically bounces the screen up from behind the desk when I clap my hands.

If the screen can be turned black and back quickly, it's going to work fine, methinks.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: jdg on April 25, 2010, 12:14:59 pm
if you get an LCD-TV that does 1080p, you'll get a native resolution of 1920 x 1080.

with a 52" screen, i think the resolution/size of everything would be great at 2.5ish meters away

the LCD-TVs that do 720p do 1366 x 768, which is gonna make for very large GUI elements.  but you could probably still see everything when its even farther away.


i have such terrible eyesight, even with glasses, i wonder if such a thing would work for me.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Greg Reierson on April 25, 2010, 12:19:24 pm
I have a 42" LCD about 5 feet away. I can get "instant black" by selecting an unused channel on my KVM.


GR
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: mastertone on April 25, 2010, 04:54:48 pm
Greg Reierson wrote on Sun, 25 April 2010 18:19

 I can get "instant black" by selecting an unused channel on my KVM.
GR


That is nice! I do the same thing but with my screensaver.
Just added a ctr+alt+F12 hotkey in the properties of the blank screensaver.

I try to use it as much as possible.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Tomas Danko on April 26, 2010, 05:49:13 am
mastertone wrote on Sun, 25 April 2010 21:54

Greg Reierson wrote on Sun, 25 April 2010 18:19

 I can get "instant black" by selecting an unused channel on my KVM.
GR


That is nice! I do the same thing but with my screensaver.
Just added a ctr+alt+F12 hotkey in the properties of the blank screensaver.

I try to use it as much as possible.


You can sometimes set a "hot corner" to start a blank/black screen saver. Then you just need to throw the mouse pointer to, say, the lower left corner, and it'll activate. I use it all the time.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: ggidluck on April 26, 2010, 02:33:36 pm
How about an iPAD for remote control?

There is an app for that (of course). Mocha VNC will do remote control of either OSX and Windows computer screens.

The question then becomes... where did I put the screen instead of where do I put the screen.  Very Happy  

Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: pmx on May 10, 2010, 08:09:50 am
i've been thinking about that too, not as a remote but as an extra wireless display for plugs and such. it's about as wide as a 6000 remote and my dk gonio.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Viitalahde on September 04, 2010, 08:09:43 am
I really need some input here, help me out.

I constantly keep on changing opinions between having a big screen in front wall vs. having a dedicated DAW stand to the side, and I should start making some decisions here.

Just about any screen in front of me bugs me, but at least the big TV is far away and it blends to the wall when you blank it while processing. On the other side, it's still there and you've also got to position in pretty low for more comfy working.

A DAW stand (like the Sterling Modular one) would be a cool one, but I'd have to keep it pretty far away on the side, and also move away from the sweet spot once in a while. For editing, I figured you could always roll it in front of the desk. But I'm afraid it gets too gimmicky after doing it for a while.

Anyone here who's done both?
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: jackthebear on September 04, 2010, 09:13:13 am
I'll do my best here to help......we have adopted the monitor on the side approach.....keeps your stereo image free and keeps your auditory sense focused.....I'm sure there are others with equally strong arguments for the other way.......
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Greg Reierson on September 04, 2010, 10:03:52 am
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: jdg on September 04, 2010, 12:00:22 pm
I got a 46" LCD tv a month back pushed way back.

It runs 1920x1080. The size and distance is perfect for me Smile

It works well on my KVM too.

It would have been easier to just go with a side screen, but after trying in earnest several times, I just ponied up for a large TV/monitor
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Ruairi O'Flaherty on September 04, 2010, 01:05:58 pm
I've been in the same position for the last little while.  A friend offered me a giant 60 inch plasma for a song but I don't like the idea of the screen becoming the focus of the room, in an ideal world everything in front of me would be dark (ala Grundmann's).  It seems to me that clients love looking at screens and rarely to the benefit of the listening experience...

Working to the side is not an option for me as I still mix in HD  occasionally which requires major screen/keyboard action.  In the end I decided to get 2 x 23 inch Apple LCDs which I'm building into a custom low profile console.  The screens will be raked steeply in front of me side by side. A blackout screen saver is essential.  When I mix in HD I'll use both screens and then a switcher when I grow up and get a 2nd capture machine.

Best of luck with the quandry Jaakko.

Cheers,
Ruairi
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Viitalahde on September 04, 2010, 04:52:17 pm
I think what I really need is a stand that magically pops up the screen from behind the console when I clap my hands.

Thanks for the input, guys. Greg's post gives just "no message body", which seems to sometimes be a common error here. Anyone else seeing that?

jackthebear wrote on Sat, 04 September 2010 16:13

I'll do my best here to help......we have adopted the monitor on the side approach.....keeps your stereo image free and keeps your auditory sense focused.....I'm sure there are others with equally strong arguments for the other way.......


Yeah, this is what I'm starting to feel like after all. Turning your screen on/off can also be pretty distracting. The Sterling Modular DAW stand looks like it's pretty slick, and for editing you could probably roll it in front of your desk just fine. For basic play/rec action you could just go with wireless keyboard and mouse on your console with occasional looks to the side.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: bblackwood on September 04, 2010, 05:01:09 pm
Viitalahde wrote on Sat, 04 September 2010 15:52

Greg's post gives just "no message body", which seems to sometimes be a common error here. Anyone else seeing that?

That typically happens when someone posts something then deletes it.

Quote:

jackthebear wrote on Sat, 04 September 2010 16:13

I'll do my best here to help......we have adopted the monitor on the side approach.....keeps your stereo image free and keeps your auditory sense focused.....I'm sure there are others with equally strong arguments for the other way.......


Yeah, this is what I'm starting to feel like after all. Turning your screen on/off can also be pretty distracting. The Sterling Modular DAW stand looks like it's pretty slick, and for editing you could probably roll it in front of your desk just fine. For basic play/rec action you could just go with wireless keyboard and mouse on your console with occasional looks to the side.


I've had mine off to the side for 15 years and am *this* close to buying an LCD for the front wall...
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Macc on September 04, 2010, 06:56:43 pm
I have two small low table jobbies (Ikea Rast Very Happy ) in front of me, filled with rockwool, with a monitor on each. It means the screens are close but also quite low and fairly unobtrusive, but the main point was to have them dealing with floor bounce from the speakers. I don't have a desk, just a wireless keyboard/mousepad combo.

It works really well. Things measure better with them there, and they are both convenient enough, and out of the way enough. And I have the blank screen keyboard shortcut too Smile

Gear is in a rack to the side, and everything is stereo controlled so I can do it with one hand without moving from the sweet spot.

Very happy Smile
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Andrew Hamilton on September 04, 2010, 09:05:04 pm
Been liking having the display on the floor, between my feet.  It's angled upwards.  

(For intensive editing, I can put the display on the console in front of me.  Sounds way better on the floor.)

Andrew
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: dietrich on September 05, 2010, 08:15:47 am
I have the monitor arm on my sterling desk which i leave as far back as i can-move it close when needed. the idea of it completely out of the field sounds interesting....though looking down might take some time to get used to
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Andrew Hamilton on September 05, 2010, 09:05:51 am
dietrich wrote on Sun, 05 September 2010 08:15

I... looking down might take some time to get used to



I was surprised at how easy it was to adapt to this.  I can leave my fingers on the keypad, or mouse, and only move my eyes downard, as if looking out a low navigation window on a submarine or cigar-shaped spacecraft.   The key is that one needn't move his pinnae while listening and making changes and also that one not have a television screen blocking the path from the loudspeakers to those pinnae.  Back in ye olde days, there was always a tape machine fan in the studio.  So that type of noise doesn't interfere with hit record-making.  But having a tv block the sound from the phantom center image in the mastering room has got to be a new-fangled tweak we could do without.  Didn't happen at first cutting of D. S. O. T. M.  
As for projection displays, if it's large enough to read from the mastering position, it's too big (and flat).  Will create non-diffuse reflections.*  There's really no good place for a computer display in a studio.  I recommend we return en masse to tape recording and lacquer mastering and leave computing to the geeks.

Happy Labor Day weekend, America!
Andrew



* Please don't gainsay me this.  Unless you are able to shout me a plasma display...   (}\:

Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Jerry Tubb on September 05, 2010, 10:53:39 am
I'm ready for holographic projection, visuals that zoom up close when you need them, but acoustically transparent.

I think that's why I don't care much for plug-ins, too many fiddly micro-text parameters.

JT
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Andy Krehm on September 05, 2010, 11:53:57 am
Maybe one day I'll get my tech guy to disconnect the monitor and after we get some music going, I'll close my eyes and have him to silently put it on and off the desk.

Then if I can hear a significant improvement, I'll give some thought to the flat screen on the back wall idea. Of course then there would be Serif Sound's post to consider. Is a big flat screen going to change the sound in some negative way?

Meanwhile, the monitor stays on the desk and I'll keep on working and getting masters approved!
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: jdg on September 05, 2010, 01:43:51 pm
My previous 26" LCD was on a movable arm, so once I had a buddy come in a move the LCD while music played.  The difference was not small, and is why I had the LCD off to side for long.  But alas, my neck couldn't take it and went back to having it out front.  

Now that LCD tvs are relatively cheap, having it in front, but out of the stereo field is a HUGE win for my setup at least.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Andy Krehm on September 05, 2010, 03:08:44 pm
jdg wrote on Sun, 05 September 2010 13:43

My previous 26" LCD was on a movable arm, so once I had a buddy come in a move the LCD while music played.  The difference was not small, and is why I had the LCD off to side for long.  But alas, my neck couldn't take it and went back to having it out front.  

Now that LCD tvs are relatively cheap, having it in front, but out of the stereo field is a HUGE win for my setup at least.

Have you been able to ascertain any sonic downsides to your setup as Andrew seems to imply?

I should also say that my speakers have the tweeters in the middle and the base of the speaker is actually on the same plane as the top of my monitor. Also, when the room was designed, the designer was extremely careful with placement of desk and monitors based on his measurement of reflections.

However that doesn't mean it wouldn't be an improvement to move the monitor so I will try having it moved while listening.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: urm eric on September 05, 2010, 03:23:49 pm
I know it's still not popular, and I'm certainly not preaching for it, but the old - everything behind you - still works the best for me. I've worked that way for many years now. I got a new sterling-type console this week and tried it in front of me but it *felt* wrong as well as sounding less good than the prairie option. Of course, moving speakers would have made a difference - but active ATC 50's aren't a one-man lift ...

I now have a backwards sweet-spot and swing around 180 degress in the chair for proper listening. Ergonomically much better than what I had before with no downside, except the occasional slight dizziness when I misjudge the swing speed ...

I think you can and do get used to pretty much anything, our perceptual system is wonderfully adaptive and if you're used to other ways then changing to any `theoretically better' way might not work at all.

Cheers,

Eric
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Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: jdg on September 05, 2010, 03:30:53 pm
Sure, I'm sure my duns would sound better with no other furniture in the room at all, but then I'd have to get plastic surgery to minimize the reflections from my nose.  My DIY solution is to grow a beard to introduce some diffusion around my face.

Srsly tho, there is no doubt my large 46" LCD has an acoustical downside, even if it is flush with my speakers.   It's good for now, until holodeck mastering is invented
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Andy Krehm on September 05, 2010, 03:50:10 pm
jdg wrote on Sun, 05 September 2010 15:30

Sure, I'm sure my duns would sound better with no other furniture in the room at all, but then I'd have to get plastic surgery to minimize the reflections from my nose.  My DIY solution is to grow a beard to introduce some diffusion around my face.

Srsly tho, there is no doubt my large 46" LCD has an acoustical downside, even if it is flush with my speakers.   It's good for now, until holodeck mastering is invented

Try a beard and a custom nose cone! Works for me. Slope shoulders and ear extensions are good. Mostly I master lying on the floor and that works best Laughing !

Srsly tho, if I were to do this, I'd put the monitor on the back wall so about 2 1/2, 3 feet farther back from the front of the speakers. Why did you go for the flush arrangment?
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: bblackwood on September 05, 2010, 04:34:59 pm
jdg wrote on Sun, 05 September 2010 14:30

Srsly tho, there is no doubt my large 46" LCD has an acoustical downside, even if it is flush with my speakers.   It's good for now, until holodeck mastering is invented

Depends - if the front wall is already reflective and you mount the monitor to said wall, the acoustic impact is probably negligible.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: mcsnare on September 05, 2010, 05:34:06 pm
I have the monitor sunk into the desk, straight in front of me. It's awesome. I don't think I could go back to having it on the side and I don't like the idea of a huge flat screen on the front wall.

Dave
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: jdg on September 05, 2010, 08:51:27 pm
For some reason, I want to say flush with the speaker face is the least damning... Just a feeling, could be totally wrong.

I have diffusion with absorption on my front wall, so maybe the LCD is not a big deal so far frontwards.  It's all really room specific for sure
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Bonati on September 05, 2010, 11:20:00 pm
We have the screen rackmounted in the Sterling (3 bay) desk. Best setup I've ever had. So easy - no viewing angle problems and you only have to look down with your eyes, not your whole head. Using a KVM switch for the two computers. I'm facing straight ahead at the speakers for the entire session.

It would be nice to have the 2-bay Sterling desk for a smaller acoustical footprint but I've decided that the racked screen is a "pro" that outweighs that "con".
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Greg Reierson on September 06, 2010, 07:57:46 pm
bblackwood wrote on Sat, 04 September 2010 16:01

Viitalahde wrote on Sat, 04 September 2010 15:52

Greg's post gives just "no message body", which seems to sometimes be a common error here. Anyone else seeing that?

That typically happens when someone posts something then deletes it.


Yeah, I replied and then realized it was an old thread to which I had made the same response a while back. I tried to fumble my way through deleting the post on my iPhone without success. Sorry for the bandwidth...


GR
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Andrew Hamilton on September 07, 2010, 02:13:17 am
Bonati wrote on Sun, 05 September 2010 23:20

We have the screen rackmounted in the Sterling (3 bay) desk. Best setup I've ever had. So easy - no viewing angle problems and you only have to look down with your eyes, not your whole head. Using a KVM switch for the two computers. I'm facing straight ahead at the speakers for the entire session.

It would be nice to have the 2-bay Sterling desk for a smaller acoustical footprint but I've decided that the racked screen is a "pro" that outweighs that "con".


It's "pro" hibited in our auditorium, as our floor plan's short wall is your floor plan's long'n, and vice versa...  A triple-wide would be not much narrower than the 8014 frame we retired, which is a pro (enough) mixing console, to be sure.  Whereas the "con" sideration we provide acoustical matters should be paramount.   Rolling Eyes

I did try mastering with the console behind me, the way Dave Davis used to do in the old QCA Mastering Room.  It was a great solution, hiding in plain sight (or not)...  ZoZ (Zero obstruction zone).

Doug Sax still uses this approach in his new, money-no-object room...  However, I do like facing the speakers while turning the knobs, rather than going back and forth.  Having heard the room both ways, now, I am more attuned to the shading/glare components of the console's presence.  Must say that the Sterling open frame, with panty hose on the gaps, is inspired.  Lots more sound surrounding one.



Also, if I let my glasses ride on the end of my nose, I actually don't have to nod my head in order to read the display on the floor, between my feet.  I josh you, not.   Surprised If I don't let the glasses ride down, I do have to tilt my head a bit, but then I can keep it right there, without titling my head back up in order to look ahead (...at the speakers - as if they are going anywhere!)...

 Not so sure there's much of a sonic hit when looking downward at a slight angle (between my legs, with no obstruction (twss!)) compared to looking forward at a screen that is in the way...  Also, when the segment is looping, there's no need to look at the screen (so it shouldn't be in the way!)....

As I wrote, before, it's easily placeable on the desktop, if editing or other viewing is more important than acoustics.    But I figure, it's either put it on the floor, or put it behind (one)...  


I actually have been flirting with the idea of removing one of the pods in my 2-bay and going narrow to minimize the acoustic obstruction.  I'd have to reduce the number of rack items, but that might be good...  Just two eqs and two comps... I really like the custom bolster/wrist pad, but I could probably make something similar... or ask Ron...  




Andrew
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Waltz Mastering on September 07, 2010, 08:18:13 am
Bonati wrote on Sun, 05 September 2010 23:20

We have the screen rackmounted in the Sterling (3 bay) desk. Best setup I've ever had. So easy - no viewing angle problems and you only have to look down with your eyes, not your whole head. Using a KVM switch for the two computers. I'm facing straight ahead at the speakers for the entire session.

It would be nice to have the 2-bay Sterling desk for a smaller acoustical footprint but I've decided that the racked screen is a "pro" that outweighs that "con".

I customized my desk a while ago to have the monitor mounted at the same angle as you and Dave M mentioned the Sterling having.  Unobtrusive and works great.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: TotalSonic on September 07, 2010, 11:29:48 am
Got to visit Ed Littman's studio over the Labor Day weekend for a really great bbq and jam session - and checked out a couple of things relevant to this thread.

First - the Buzz REQ 2.2 has truly excellent ergonomics (with the only downside being the fact that it is 4RU) and sounded amazing.  Really didn't want to rekindle any kind of gear lust as I've been really happy with my setup of late - but this one did it.

Second - he had two cinema screens on the front wall - and while I really liked that this opened up and uncluttered the space around the desk - I found myself kind of squinting a bit and didn't really feel all that comfortable with this setup.  It's possible that I could get used to this over a little bit of time - but my eye sight isn't all that great (even though my glasses prescription is recent) so seeing this kind of setup in person convinced me that I don't really want to do it for myself.

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: lowland on September 07, 2010, 11:50:23 am
Waltz Mastering wrote on Tue, 07 September 2010 13:18

I customized my desk a while ago to have the monitor mounted at the same angle as you and Dave M mentioned the Sterling having.  Unobtrusive and works great.

This interests me - is there a rackmount frame one can buy to install an existing monitor, or does it need to be a custom job?
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: pmx on September 07, 2010, 01:34:09 pm
my post seems to have vanished Smile

my current setup is to have a 40" monitor mounted on the sideWALL behind the reflection point. it works very good acoustic wise, but the swinging to the side doesn't feel right. i've considered a smaller monitor on a lcd arm that i can put 'under' the acoustic field when not needed, but i'm not so sure this would work well.

i like josh's solution, seen it several times but my main concern is that all outboard lives a few feet away. isn't that a problem, ie when trying to reach for the outer knobs on an eq. any opinions on that? i'd like to be able to reach them without moving my chair.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Waltz Mastering on September 07, 2010, 02:06:53 pm
lowland wrote on Tue, 07 September 2010 11:50

Waltz Mastering wrote on Tue, 07 September 2010 13:18

I customized my desk a while ago to have the monitor mounted at the same angle as you and Dave M mentioned the Sterling having.  Unobtrusive and works great.

This interests me - is there a rackmount frame one can buy to install an existing monitor, or does it need to be a custom job?


You can buy 19" rack mountable displays:
http://www.smartvm.com/Rackmount-LCD-Monitors-C1289.htm?ctt_ id=3391107&ctt_adnw=Google&ctt_kw=rack%20mount%20mon itor&ctt_ch=ps&ctt_entity=kw&gclid=CIm_lIHz9aMCF eQD5Qodm16i0w

A 20" (diagonal) display is usually just under 19" in length so it works well for custom.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: lowland on September 07, 2010, 04:20:13 pm
Waltz Mastering wrote on Tue, 07 September 2010 19:06

You can buy 19" rack mountable displays:
 http://www.smartvm.com/Rackmount-LCD-Monitors-C1289.htm?ctt_  id=3391107&ctt_adnw=Google&ctt_kw=rack%20mount%20mon  itor&ctt_ch=ps&ctt_entity=kw&gclid=CIm_lIHz9aMCF eQD5Qodm16i0w

A 20" (diagonal) display is usually just under 19" in length so it works well for custom.

Thanks Tom, it's appreciated. That looks good if expensive - makes me wonder how easy it would be to have some metalwork made up to fit my existing 19" 4:3 flatscreen.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: dave-G on September 07, 2010, 11:32:36 pm
lowland wrote on Tue, 07 September 2010 16:20

 makes me wonder how easy it would be to have some metalwork made up to fit my existing 19" 4:3 flatscreen.

Wouldn't take too much effort to have a VESA mount welded onto a sturdy 19" panel.  With a thinner LED display, you could perhaps even get something wider and let it hang above the screw-rails/over the sides a bit.

I've thought about 'McCaiging' it too (large TV further back).  But I've got sufficiently impaired eyesight, even with coke-bottle contact lenses, that the prospect of having to look too far away has been a factor in my non-changing of the theoretically problematic way I've got things here now.

I've also had the idea in my head of an iPad VNC'ing the DAW with a non-slip neoprene backing so it could sit anywhere on top of the knobs, movable to out-of-the-way as needed..   Still control the DAW by keyboard and mouse on the wrist-rest area of the console ...   I just don't know if the VNC behavior on those is fast enough to not be prohibitively annoying, or if the screen size/resolution is impractically small for this.

Tough to find the time and logistics to experiment, and I don't manage to hate the setup I've got now.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: jdg on September 08, 2010, 02:51:20 pm
im blind too, the size + resolution works great.

the "best" resolution you'll get on a LCD TV is 1920 x 1080

at 50+inches you should be able to "McCaig" it all day long, even without your glasses on! (disclaimer, may not be suitable for mixed company)
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: Viitalahde on September 08, 2010, 04:33:32 pm
This has been such a great topic and you people are really helping me out here, thanks for that.

As I said, I constantly keep on changing my mind, and so I am this time. Right now the LCD in front in 51% winning. I was just checking one out and when blanked, it blends into the wall quite well. Besides, it was my original choice, anyway.

But what puts me off with the side mounted option is the extra furniture needed, I'd like to keep the upcoming room really simple. If I ever changed my mind, getting rid of a big TV is probably easier than with a $700 Sound Anchor.

Related to the topic, I'm wrapping up my plans for my new desk. Quite like a Sterling Modular Plan A, but with 13 units, no low front racks, foot space under the console and just 2x 4U space on the back for PSU's and such.
Title: Re: Equipment ergonomics
Post by: dave-G on September 08, 2010, 05:24:45 pm
Viitalahde wrote on Wed, 08 September 2010 16:33

what puts me off with the side mounted option is the extra furniture needed, I'd like to keep the upcoming room really simple. If I ever changed my mind, getting rid of a big TV is probably easier than with a $700 Sound Anchor.

FWIW, you might not need extra furniture, per se. For my 2nd DAW,  I have a small (17" widescreen) monitor low and off the side of my Sterling desk via a Moview arm.  Works well, nothing on the floor, just kinda floats there sturdily.  Wouldn't want to have to stare sideways for doing things with my primary DAW, but this one is my capture/assemble machine, so my use of it is less sound-critical.  

I use teleport so that my main rig's keyboard and mouse will take over control of the Mac Mini that runs DAW2 by just option dragging the mouse-cursor off the left edge of the main rig's screen.  I also have it installed on my MacBook so if put that on the console to check mail etc, I can drag in either direction and use the MacBook to control either DAW.

Neat-o.

-Dave