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R/E/P => R/E/P Archives => The Acid Test => Topic started by: daxliniere on February 12, 2009, 02:45:38 am

Title: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: daxliniere on February 12, 2009, 02:45:38 am
Hey guys,
My name's Dax and I run Puzzle Factory Sound Studio in Sydney, Australia.

Fellow engineer and friend of mine, Chad Halford (aka DangerousC), and I were talking about how, for many years, we wished there was a shootout of kick drum mics.
So I said, let's just do it ourselves!
We've both benefitted immensely from other people's shootouts, so this is our chance to give a little lovin' back.

So now, we proudly present to you a shootout of 11 microphones!

Audio:
http://www.kaleidoscopesoundworks.com/kicks/Kick%20Mic%20Sho otout%20Photos.rar

Photos:
http://www.kaleidoscopesoundworks.com/kicks/Kickdrum%20mic%2 0shootout%20FLAC.rar


THE list:
AKG D112 (forward and reversed)
Audio-Technica AE 2500 (2 channels)
Audix D6
Sennheiser e901
Beyer M88
Heil PR30
Heil PR40
JTS NX2 (Beta52 copy)
Sennheiser MD421-U5
Sennheiser MD421-II (vintage)
Shure Beta52

NOTES:
*Tracks recorded were kick, snare and overheads in stereo with no processing.
*Snare mic was Beyer M69
*Overhead mics were Audio-Technica AT4047
*Drumkit used was Brady Fibreglass, with 22" kick
*Recordings were also done with a Yamaha 20" DP Series kick, but it sounded so lousy, we only did a few tests, then abandoned it. (There are 3 samples included)
*Both kick drums were carefully tuned before recording
*D6 & e901 were used simultaneously as this would be a more common usage than e901 alone.
*Sorry, we forgot to take photos of the M88 in use.
*Files are encoded as FLACs - use a host that natively supports them (Samplitude, etc) or convert to WAVs (google: FLAC)

(Please don't complain that your favourite is not on the list. We tried to get as many as we possibly could, some of which we had to hire.)

Dax Liniere

PUZZLE FACTORY
SOUND STUDIO
Sydney, Australia

p: +61 412 599 533
www.puzzlefactory.com.au - now with VR!
Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: Tom L on February 14, 2009, 01:43:21 pm
and here you go...

nuthin fancy but you can download from here:

http://www.kaleidoscopesoundworks.com/kicks/
Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: Knastratt on February 14, 2009, 04:30:21 pm
Thanks, Tom.

I'm currently shopping for a kick mic. The Beta 52 seems to fit my sound ideal. I'll throw in an SM7 as well while trying.

/P
Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: Bruno Gouveia on February 15, 2009, 05:31:36 pm
But hey, the question is sound changes with mic position, meaning that you can practically have a great bass drum sound with virtually any professional(condenser?) microphone.. But I admit there are microphones easier to work with, meaning that we can get faster to a good result.
Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: daxliniere on February 17, 2009, 03:46:23 am
Thanks to Tom for generously hosting those files! Smile
Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: George_ on February 19, 2009, 01:25:53 am
thanx for the shootout!

try to position the audix D6 more to the beater and you will have the best kickdrumsound ever recorded Wink at least it works for me.. 99% of the time. it sounds quite shitty on this tracks.
Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: tom eaton on February 19, 2009, 08:34:25 am
I own a bunch of the usual suspects and the only thing that works reliably time after time for me is a Beta 91 in the drum and a Subkick outside.  Printed to two tracks it allows the balance of click to boom to be tailored by the song... otherwise I'd be changing kick mics all the time during basics sessions.  Other mics that I have (Beta 52, D6, TGX50, Beyer M99/M88, PR40, etc.) all seem to work well for a particular kick for a particular song or session, but I would never say that one of them gets me the best sound every time.

The D6 in particular seems very specific to me in terms of the sound it gives me... tending to make different kicks sound very similar.  

tom

Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: Knastratt on February 19, 2009, 12:57:41 pm
I have a Lowther PM6 laying around - I'll certainly try that for a subkick!
Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: audiohhh on February 25, 2009, 08:38:30 pm
where's the ATM25 in this list?  That's my go to.
Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: mr jason on February 26, 2009, 10:40:57 pm
Yes, my goto is the ATM25 too. I use it for all kinds of music, on all kinds of kits, as well as on bass guitar and floortoms, and it's always useable with minimum effort & EQ, both in the studio and at gigs.

By the way, does anyone know if the XLR on these are hotglued in or something like that? I need to get mine apart as there appears to be a dodgy connection inside (happened at a recent gig), but after tightening the holding screw (the screw works backwards) to allow the XLR to come out, it doesn't come out. I've pulled it with needlenose plyers, but don't want to force it.

I've also unscrewed the head basket, but it looks like to take the mic out of the metal body I'd have to maybe force it out with some molegrips..

Anybody taken an ATM25 apart?
Any tips are appreciated, as I love this mic.

Thanks,
Jason
Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: jimmyjazz on March 19, 2009, 05:50:28 pm
Well, whaddayaknow?  I have an ATM25 and I've never used it on kick.  I've parked it on a few snare drums, but it never occured to me to try it elsewhere.  Kind of an underwhelming mic, but maybe now it has a home.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: tom eaton on March 22, 2009, 12:39:50 am
Underwhelming?  I have 4 ATM25s.  Love them on toms.  HUGE sound.  Not my fave on kick, but absolutely not a bad choice!

t
Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: Miguel M on March 22, 2009, 04:33:26 pm
Nice shootout!

I'd like to see the Sennheiser 441 there too!!
Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: George_ on March 24, 2009, 02:58:20 am
hm.. most of my kickdrum sound is coming from room mics and such..

Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: littlehat on March 26, 2009, 11:34:30 pm
I've used most of the mics mentioned and now that I have a D12...

Well I don't even think about it anymore.
No EQ, no attitude. Sounds great on every kick it meets.
Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: Geoff Emerick de Fake on December 07, 2009, 02:00:06 pm
Hey Dax,
Nice to see you on this forum; I'm used to your posts on the Samplitude forum.
Very interesting shootout. As someone mentioned, I would feel more related to the samples if you had placed the mics closer to the beater.
I couldn't figure what you mean by forward and reverse for the D112 (doesn't seem to make much difference - I mean they sound different but both usable).
I have done a similar shootout a couple of years ago for a French magazine, in the context of live applications.
I had the AKG D112 & D550, ATM25 & AE2500, Audix D6 & f12, Beyer M99, Opus 65 & M88, EV ND868, RE20 & RE27, Samson Q Kick, Sennheiser E602, Shure Beta 52, PG52 & Beta 91 and Superlux FK2.
All the usual suspects fared well (D112, ATM25, D6, RE20 & Beta52), but the real surprise came from the Samson Q Kick, which delevers instant gratification at 1/3 of the cost. It seems like the JTS can also deliver the goods at low cost...
Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: seedyunderbelly.com on December 08, 2009, 07:13:44 am
thx dax  I look forward to hearing it  j
Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: compasspnt on December 08, 2009, 03:31:53 pm
There is everything in all of the shootouts.

There is even the "subkick" speaker thingy.

Then there is the U47-fet.
Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: ericbridenbaker on December 08, 2009, 06:19:43 pm
also there's the Shure SM-91
Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: bigbone on December 08, 2009, 07:34:31 pm
compasspnt wrote on Tue, 08 December 2009 15:31

There is everything in all of the shootouts.

There is even the "subkick" speaker thingy.

Then there is the U47-fet.



That show  you don't need a 3,000 $ mic to have a great Bass drum sound.
Glad for those who use it and got it ( U-47 ), but it's not a necessity.
Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: MI on December 09, 2009, 01:57:07 pm
I prefer a great drummer to a great mic.

M
Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: Fibes on December 09, 2009, 02:04:18 pm
Today is the day I start putting an iFet7 through its paces.

The D12 and D25 can now go for a spa treatment in Panman town.

Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: Geoff Emerick de Fake on December 22, 2009, 04:51:30 pm
I can't really believe an iFET7 is going to replace a D12/25 in all circumstances...?
Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: Fibes on December 24, 2009, 09:33:58 am
Geoff Emerick de Fake wrote on Tue, 22 December 2009 16:51

I can't really believe an iFET7 is going to replace a D12/25 in all circumstances...?



Not at all, but thanks for the benefit of the doubt. My D25 is broken so...

I like the iFet7 quite a bit, maybe more than I projected on bass drum, upright and voice.
Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: NelsonL on December 24, 2009, 11:13:19 am
Fibes wrote on Thu, 24 December 2009 06:33

Geoff Emerick de Fake wrote on Tue, 22 December 2009 16:51

I can't really believe an iFET7 is going to replace a D12/25 in all circumstances...?



Not at all, but thanks for the benefit of the doubt. My D25 is broken so...

I like the iFet7 quite a bit, maybe more than I projected on bass drum, upright and voice.



Love the iFet7, it was our workhorse mic at my old place, and in my opinion, can be great on FOK, voice, acoustic guitar, bass cab and more.
Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: Geoff Emerick de Fake on December 24, 2009, 11:31:49 am
OK, so I think I should rephrase:
I can't really believe an iFET7 is going to be the all-round kick drum mic...?
Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: Dan-O on January 02, 2010, 10:09:03 am
Fibes wrote on Wed, 09 December 2009 14:04

The D12 and D25 can now go for a spa treatment in Panman town.




What's Panman town? I have 2 D12's (1 D12E)that could use some loving care.
Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: Fibes on January 02, 2010, 04:00:06 pm
Panman is the REP handle of Esa, who is one of the only people in the world working with dynamics of this sort. I'm getting ready to send mine out to him overseas.
Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: minister on January 02, 2010, 10:21:36 pm
Fibes wrote on Sat, 02 January 2010 15:00

Panman is the REP handle of Esa, who is one of the only people in the world working with dynamics of this sort. I'm getting ready to send mine out to him overseas.

Panman did a nice job of repairing my vintage AKG D19.  Very reasonable price and quite a knowledgeable man.  I definitely recommend him.

Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: reallyryan on April 14, 2010, 06:53:39 pm
Amazing thread! I'm really in the market for a new kick drum mic, been putting it off for too long using a budget mic and tweaking the EQ to make up for it...
Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: Tom L on April 18, 2010, 10:11:52 pm
I've had to take these files off my site indefinitely due to a malware issue. Apparently I've been hacked.
Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: bigbone on April 27, 2010, 06:50:30 pm
Tom L wrote on Sun, 18 April 2010 22:11

I've had to take these files off my site indefinitely due to a malware issue. Apparently I've been hacked.




Dam, were this world is going to when you got to hack
Bass drum files....... Rolling Eyes

JN
Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: Bill_Urick on April 28, 2010, 07:06:00 am
littlehat wrote on Thu, 26 March 2009 23:34

I've used most of the mics mentioned and now that I have a D12...

Well I don't even think about it anymore.
No EQ, no attitude. Sounds great on every kick it meets.


Jamal, I should know this, but is this pretty much a single element D20? That would be nice 'cause it's much more affordable.


Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: Fibes on April 28, 2010, 09:29:22 am
The capsule is 200ohms instead of 50 if i remember correctly.

I have to say I got my D12 and D25 back from Panman (Esa) and they are like I remember them being before they stopped functioning perfectly. He's an amazing guy, very reasonable for the effort he puts in.

I love my D12 and D25 again and he's the reason for it.




Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: Tom L on April 29, 2010, 12:31:38 pm
bigbone wrote on Tue, 27 April 2010 14:50

Tom L wrote on Sun, 18 April 2010 22:11

I've had to take these files off my site indefinitely due to a malware issue. Apparently I've been hacked.




Dam, were this world is going to when you got to hack
Bass drum files....... Rolling Eyes

JN


lol. Well, I don't think it was those files specifically.  My site was having issues in general and I had to remove & replace all my content.  I'll repost those files when I get a moment. Some other things in the queue first.
Title: Re: Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!
Post by: MagnetoSound on May 02, 2010, 07:55:49 am
bigbone wrote on Tue, 27 April 2010 23:50

Tom L wrote on Sun, 18 April 2010 22:11

I've had to take these files off my site indefinitely due to a malware issue. Apparently I've been hacked.




Dam, were this world is going to when you got to hack
Bass drum files....... Rolling Eyes




In the future, bass drum files will be the only currency.