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R/E/P => R/E/P Archives => j. hall => Topic started by: j.hall on October 27, 2008, 09:48:47 am

Title: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: j.hall on October 27, 2008, 09:48:47 am
doesn't look good for me submitting again this time.  haven't even opened the RAR and it's submission day.


Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: j.hall on October 27, 2008, 05:07:19 pm
yeah, no chance for me.  just finished my first mix of the day and i HAVE to do a second or i'll fall even further behind then i already am.

note to self, two full lengths at the same time.....bad idea.
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: slash5969 on October 27, 2008, 05:42:17 pm
I thought these were very well done tracks for the most part.

Faders up, and the basics were already there. I didn't obsess over the piano track - I sort of dug the tension it created right from the get-go. The Rhodes stuff felt a little over-the-top and I used it sparingly.

The drums fell together easily, and that's saying something for me. I ALWAYS struggle with drums. I'm using new KRK monitors this time around and I know that helped, but the quality of the tracks themselves was the biggest difference.

I spent time on subtle things in my mix this time, since I didn't use the entire week trying to get the drums to play nice with all the other tracks. I've got more than one reverb in play, for instance. I moved volumes around in small degrees almost everywhere. I got a chance to try to see the big picture for once - and even though I might have totally missed it, at least I got to look for it on this one.

That is progress. I'm diggin' it.

Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: iCombs on October 27, 2008, 06:10:14 pm
I was going to actually say something along those lines as I was listening to my mix today...I didn't HAVE to do anything to this mix...which was awesome because it left me free to treat it how I felt it should be treated...I wasn't worrying about how to make stuff fit into the mix or dealing with tuning or sample replacement or any other sort of "fixing."  All I had to do was put the tracks in their spectral and dynamic places and then add all the other stuffs I wanted to add.

It was fun to just sit back and MIX...not worry about editing a whole lot...just MIX.  This was a wonderful IMP and I'll be excited to do my reivews.
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: Billybehdaz on October 27, 2008, 06:31:00 pm
got time to review a few, so here goes.  Keep in mind I'm listening on headphones as I don't have time to transfer all the mixes to my daw.

0dbfs - I like the intro.  Vocals were way too wet to me at first, but then it kind of grew on me.  Much different approach than I took.  I also like the idea of fading the piano in and out, just not the effect on it.  Doubled vox are nice.  Overall nice balances and creative choices, I didn't like it at first because I was so used to hearing my relatively dry version but again, it grew on me.

mkane - more straightforward, no edits yet.  Not really digging the delay on the vox, maybe it's just too loud.  Nice kick/bass.  Snare a little wet for this track, IMO, but great drum sound overall.  You stayed true to the original tracks, good mix.

YZ -  heavier in the low mids than others so far.  Bass is plucky.  Like the top end in the cymbals/hat.  Good edit at the end, gets to the point.  Solid mix, just maybe a little heavy in the low mids compared to "modern" mixes, whatever that means.

nelsonl - I'm not feeling the plucky bass sound, but others seem to have gone with that as well so maybe I'm stupid.  Vox a tad hot.  Could use a little more kick/less bass to get low end balanced, maybe more snare too.  Vox level sounds better second half, just need to fix kick/bass and it'll be there.

sstillwell - not sure about the bubbly effect, bass sounds kinda plucky like the previous mix.  Like the vox treatment, very tasteful and fits the song.  Snare could have more meat, maybe a little louder as well.  Nice mix overall, I liked it.

icombs - nice balances off the bat, kick sounds a little too "rock" for this tune.  Liked the dropping of the piano 2nd verse.  Nice pop on the snare.  Good mix.

ehouston - don't feel the slapback on the vox fits this tune.  Could use a little more bass guitar, then the kick would probably need to come up as well. Not bad.

electric warrior - kick too loud for this tune.  Vox sound sweet, bet you didn't do much.  Loud snare in chorus.  Cymbals a little overbearing.  Drums mixed more like a guitar rock tune which I didn't think this song called for.

Thats all I have time for now, will try to get to more later.  Overall these are the best mixes I've heard on any IMP I've participated in.  One thing that really bugged me that no one else fixed, the lyric "no regrets".  It seemed to be obviously tuned wrong, but I guess it didn't bother anyone else.
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: T. Mueller on October 27, 2008, 06:51:29 pm
I thought I'd get this done early this week.  Before I start:  did anyone tame the high frequency ringing on the piano intro?  And this is my first IMP, so take all of this with a grain of salt, and correct me where I'm being an idiot.

Grant: I loved the guitars in the second verse; total Police sound.  I don't know if that was Jonathan's idea or yours.

0dbfs (Jonathan): Loved the bass tone. Interested in what you did.  Didn't love the doubled vocals.  Liked how you kept the reverb effect down in the closing;  I think I would have preferred more variation on this effect earlier, but liked that it lessened at this point.  Brought it back to the vocals.

Mkane: Same on bass tone.  Loved the bass tone.  Felt like the cool organ swells were drowned out early on.  Felt like the ride almost had too much attack, but what do I know.  Nothing.  Absolutely nothing.  Awesome delay on the second chorus; tried to do the same thing, but didn't succeed.

YZ: Raw kick tone.  My first thoughts were that the total mix sounded a little mid-heavy.  Probably nothing mastering couldn't adjust.  Sounded like vocals were doubled with like a bit decoder on them in the first chorus; not a choice I would have made.  I woulda saved it for the more digital sound you got in the outro.  But a choice nonetheless.  Sweet.

NelsonL: Stuck with a raw bass sound.  Reminded me of early 80s rock.  In a good way.  If that's possible.  Vocals seemed a touch too loud for me.  Liked the taming of the high-hat.  Chorus needed more snare, I thought.

Ian: Loved the piano sound in the intro.  Liked the effects and timing tricks on the swells.  I'm jealous of the kick/bass EQing tricks.  Dunno 'em.  

EHouston: seemed to keep it pretty true to the original recording, which I liked.  Reverb/delay on vocal was a little distracting on the transients, and seemed to bury the vocal a bit.  

Billybehdazz: Liked the frequency switch after the intro.  Interesting choice to chorus the acoustic guitar early.  The swelling guitars seemed to pretty much come into vocal territory, but sounded wicked.  

Electric Warrior: piano intro seemed quiet.  Bass didn't seem to have much punch.  Intentionally?  Umkay.

Slash5969: I liked the piano build.  Wondering what some panning would have done as the drums come in at the intro...  Bass seemed solid, but a little interfering with the mids.

MGAudio: Didn't really feel the bass tone with the kick for some reason.  Vocal seemed to interfere a bit with the piano.  Sweet kick, though.  Seemed mid-heavy.  Again, an ME could deal with that.  Whoa.  THAT reverb.  Just heard it.  Awesome.

DCombs: Tight drums.  Enjoyed the vocal EQing, think it could have been a TOUCH louder.

T. Mueller: (My own.) I wouldn't make the vocal so thin if doing it again, and would space out the guitars/keys more.  Also, I kinda hyperlimited the thing.  My bad.

I guess I was a little surprised that some of us made similar choices with delays on the guitars, etc.
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: SingSing on October 27, 2008, 09:51:35 pm
Fiasco, you messed up the samplerate...


FYI

Stefan
SingSing
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: Colin Larson on October 27, 2008, 11:46:56 pm
0dbfs: really creative with all the reverb stuff, definitely gives the song a different mood

mkane: the kick sounds good, but I don't know if it's right for the song...  maybe a little heavy handed for a piano tune?  Everything else sounds really good and makes me jealous Very Happy

YZ: haha the edit in the middle is cool.  snare sounds like it could use some more thwomp though.  Not sure about the outro vox effect.

NelsonL:  Like the others said, Vox and bass are too loud at first..  though the levels seem to come closer to normal as the song goes on.

sstillwell: cool beginning.. when the drums come in the hat sounds a little hollow(?) to me.. but the the delay/verb work is pretty cool.  Vox sound really nice.  Acoustic at the end sounds kinda goofy? so much different from the orig track.. how'd you get it so clean? Very Happy

iCombs: I really like the snare.. it really pops with the short verb tail. turn up the vocal a little bit?  this mix sounds really good.

EHouston: The vocal seems too hot and the fx ain't doin it for me.  The drums and bass sound like you didn't mess with them much at all.

Billybehdaz:  Whoa, the beginning rocks.  Sounds like you spent some time on this one.  After the full range drums come in, the kick sounds a little overbearing, maybe lower it a couple dB and bring up the bass a little?  The little chorus effects between vocals are really cool.

Electric Warrior:  Piano sounds like it has a packing blanket over it.  Could use some more time marrying up the kick and bass.  Everything seems way dry... reverb can be your friend!  Vocals seemed EQ'd well.

Slash5969: Oh snap son, rockin the fade-in!  Bass seems a little hot compared to the rest of the tracks.  Overall a good mix though, maybe pretty it up a little more with some light fx?

MGAudio:  Really like the balances.  Snare sounds weird to me for some reason but I can't pin it down.  err.. the delay on the outro is a little much.

DCombs:  Vocal treatment sounds really nice.. drums are super snappy with that bass... can't decide if I like it with the quiet piano though.  Maybe take out some 800-1k on the bass?  

Colin L (mine):  After listening to all these other ones I think I smashed the hell out of the track.  Uppermids sound crowded and I never really got the bass snappy enough.  Probably too much in the low mids too Very Happy  Oh well..  I think I did well with depth and space for the first time though.

T Mueller: OMG LAZERS... no wait it's just a piano intro.  Holy rocksauce batman!  Man your tonal balance sounds kinda off but the rockin drum sounds make up for it in awesome-factor.  The pause before the 1st verse totally makes it.

JCMastering:  Balances are alright but it has the whole packing blanket over the speakers thing going on.  Most of the tracks sound like the originals... spice it up a little!  Go balls out!

Adam Miller:  Vocal is very up front and sounds good, maybe just a little too hot.  Everything sounds very natural and well balanced.  Nice mix.

I'll get to page 2 later on... good mixes everyone Very Happy
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: NelsonL on October 28, 2008, 03:23:10 am
So, a lot of initial chatter about the tracks-- I think it might defeat some of the learning value of this, especially if you're new and you go into your mix with preconceptions.

One thing that I don't think was mentioned though, is that the snare leans in the overheads. I'm sort of curious how they were placed for this reason. Technically this is something to be avoided, but I do think the drums sound good overall and are obviously well played.


0dbfs

Vox are too thin, too much effect. Nice sense of space on the guitars. Not feeling the stereo delay on the drums. Kick is too papery, kick and snare disconnected from the OHs, particularly in the verse.

Mkane

Kick and snare sounds not really working for me, seems like there's a snare sample triggering strangely (unevenly), most evident at the end of the chorus, plus it's been EQ'd kind of weird and peaky. I think you worked hard to get them both to cut, but you can do a bit less in the future. Pretty nice other than that.

YZ

Piano seems a bit wooly, the vocal effect at the end doesn't work for me, neither does the rhodes only break. I do like the vocal effect at the top, and while the drums are a bit dark, they tie together overall.

SStillwell

R2D2! I can't hang with the chorus on the gtrs. Rhodes treatment is cool but distracts form the vocal. Drums are kind of tamed/thin sounding.

iCombs

Vocal is too far back. I could use a tad more kick, but the drums sound good overall. Nice mix.

EHouston

The snare is disconnected from the kit, needs way more OH on the whole.

Electric Warrior

Dry up front vocal is kind of cool, but perhaps not appropriate for the tune. Bass is down too far. I like the way you brought out the ride in that section (I don't really think it's a chorus per se), but the drums are really bland/low impact in the verse.

Slash5969

Bass gtr is boomy, seems like you may have monitoring issues-- but I'm away from the studio and just have headphones.

MGAudio

I think the piano would sit better in your mix if you'd thin it out a bit. Snare is a bit too bandwidth limited sounding for my taste. Acoustic delay is distracting for me, even after you tuck it away with the introduction of the vocal. Sorry, this is too much crit, it's not a bad mix at all.

DCombs

Vox a touch dark? Drums have nice impact.

T Mueller

Piano placement doesn't work for me. Nice drum treatment. Mix seems to lean Left? Vox EQ is pretty artificial sounding.

JCMastering

Drums are dry and up front, kind of disconnected from everything else. Vox seem distant. Some nice work on the Rhodes here.

Adam Miller

Nice balanced mix, drums are maybe a little tame for my taste. What I mean is that the drums, for me, sort of work against the vibe of the song when they are this tidy sounding.

HissSound

Piano is disconnected from the mix, possibly in a tile shower stall somewhere. Drums are kind of bland, needs more OH in my opinion.

TheDan

Vox lack pressence and could be up more. Cool FX on the Rhodes.

Firefly

Vox could come down a tad. Drums are a little cloudy, except for the snare, OHs seem under utilized. Nice Rhodes fx in the break.

J-Texas

Vox are too far back. Bottom end of the bass gtr is stepping on the mix. Snare is too separate from the overall drum treatment and leans left.

grant richard

Nice overall drum treatment, very punchy but maybe a little hard sounding. Kick and snare poke out of the mix a hair at times. Vocal FX take away from the focus of the tune in my opinion. I could use more vocal on the whole.

Fiasco

SR issue too distracting too comment, except to say perhaps that the tempo drags!

osumosan

Bass gtr and kick interaction isn't working for me, seems like it's pumping off tempo or soemthing.

sing sing

Vox seem band width limited, drum treatment isn't really cohesive for me. Vocal delay if out of time. Really interesting "fizzy" gtr treatment.

Colin Larson

Lots of cool FX, maybe a bit too much with the phase shifter on the piano. Vox are too dark/back. What did you do to your 2-buss? Overall mix sounds pretty cloudy.

Jonah A. Kort

Piano delay gets a bit distracting there. Sorry, I'm out of gas Jonah.

Tricklecharge

Cool intro. Then self sabotage with SR, seems like you have some cool ideas but it's impossible to judge after hearing so many at the correct rate.

Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: fiasco ( P.M.DuMont ) on October 28, 2008, 06:51:57 am
SingSing wrote on Mon, 27 October 2008 21:51

Fiasco, you messed up the samplerate...


FYI

Stefan
SingSing


Damn it! Thanks for the heads up.

Haste makes waste.

Perhaps j will let me resubmit.
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: j.hall on October 28, 2008, 10:52:03 am
swap out the file with the fixed sample rate and identical name and it will fix itself.
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: Adam Miller on October 28, 2008, 11:44:22 am
I haven't got time to do proper reviews of all the tracks just yet, but I will...

But with regards to the original tracks-
WHAT was going on with the autotune on this? It's quite brutal. It's one thing to track parts that may have problems, another to introduce the problems as part of the postproduction process. What's even more puzzling is that most people seem to have completely missed the words that were tuned a semitone out! I notice you've ironed out the autotune weirdness from yours though Grant, nice. The printed compression was also a bit ott on the vocal too, it kind of creates a wierd tilt between the louder words and the ones that should be quieter and breathier.

Adam
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: Jonah A. Kort on October 28, 2008, 12:55:18 pm
The vocals didn't bother me at all.  I also don't own Autotune so

yeah.  I'll let some shitty singer buy it for me...or something.
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: T. Mueller on October 28, 2008, 01:29:19 pm
Adam Miller wrote on Tue, 28 October 2008 10:44

I haven't got time to do proper reviews of all the tracks just yet, but I will...

But with regards to the original tracks-
WHAT was going on with the autotune on this? It's quite brutal. It's one thing to track parts that may have problems, another to introduce the problems as part of the postproduction process. What's even more puzzling is that most people seem to have completely missed the words that were tuned a semitone out!
Adam


Yeah.  I don't have Melodyne installed, so I wasn't gonna take the time to fix it.  There are several things in my mix like that.  There's a clip right when my drums start up that I didn't want to hash out, either, resulting from my editing the original.  I think that I noticed, too, that the correction was more or less "brutal" depending on how I EQed it.  Seemed like the more high-frequency content (like in my "thin" vocal mix), the more you could hear the correction; something I didn't know prior to this mix.  Is this true?  And if so, is it a result of the way the correction algorithm works?  Can anyone explain this?
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: fiasco ( P.M.DuMont ) on October 28, 2008, 01:37:05 pm
Hey guys sorry for the sample rate tom foolery.

On the IMP upload page the proper submission is the one towards the middle of the page.

Here is the link:http://www.prosoundweb.com/imp/files/IMP_20_Fiasco.mp3

j, I uploaded the proper version, and now there are two submissions by me. Sorry, I couldn't figure out how to swap them. Embarassed

I hope some of you can give me a second try. My reviews will be coming.


P.S. I kinda like my down sampled version. Smile
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: Colin Larson on October 28, 2008, 01:38:47 pm
onto page 2:

martthie 08:  Sounds pretty good, bass could be re EQ'd a little maybe, and personally I'd do something snappier with the snare.

HissSound:  Vocal sounds kind of boxed in at the top end, and the whole mix could use some reEQing to take advantage of the whole freq spectrum I think.

TheDan: Do something to get the vocal a little more out front and this mix would be pretty near perfect.

Firefly:  I can hear all the instruments, but it just doesn't sound exciting.  The kick has kind of a basketball bounce thing going on.  The acoustic gtr panning is nice!  

J-Texas: Did you pan the snare left?  Maybe that's what nelson was talking about with the OHs... anyways..  kind of like firefly's mix, the drums seem sort of disconnected, like samples that weren't EQ'd to match the rest of the track.  Aha! Just heard a sound replacer flam on the kick.  I caught you Very Happy  Other than fixing the drums, bring the vox out front a little more.

grant richard:  I think those drums would sound great in a Pantera song, but maybe not so much here.  The vocal fx makes it sound kind of distant, but it does sound neat.  Can't tell if I like it or not.  I like the vox editing you did at the end.

Fiasco:  Even with the different sample rate, this mix already sounds pretty cool, with all the acous gtr tricks and all that.  Can't wait to hear the correct version Very Happy

Osumosan:  Bass and kick sound smashed together.  What's with the sudden OH on the chorus?  You should do something to match the high ends of the verse tracks to the high end of your OHs on the chorus.  

singsing:  I like this mix a lot, it's unique among the rest of them.  Only thing I would change is the vox delay coming off the chorus and smooth out that trancey vox effect at the end so it isn't so dramatic.  Really good though.

Jonah A Kort:  Bass is a little wonky for me.. delay on the piano is a bit weird much, as is the acous gtr delay.

Tricklecharge:  Did you and Fiasco work together on this one? ;D
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: fiasco ( P.M.DuMont ) on October 28, 2008, 01:50:40 pm
Colin Larson wrote on Tue, 28 October 2008 13:38


Tricklecharge:  Did you and Fiasco work together on this one? ;D


Laughing
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: J-Texas on October 28, 2008, 02:08:32 pm
Colin Larson wrote on Tue, 28 October 2008 12:38

Aha! Just heard a sound replacer flam on the kick.  I caught you Very Happy


Laughing

Red handed!!

I heard it too... later. Didn't have time to work on this as much as I would have liked to.

Thank you for the critical listen (and others who did, I'll get to all my thank you's and crits very soon).
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: J-Texas on October 28, 2008, 02:10:56 pm
Colin Larson wrote on Tue, 28 October 2008 12:38

kind of like firefly's mix,


Unexciting?  Rolling Eyes  

Hey, you said it... I didn't.  Very Happy
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: Electric Warrior on October 28, 2008, 02:27:37 pm
T. Mueller wrote on Tue, 28 October 2008 18:29

Adam Miller wrote on Tue, 28 October 2008 10:44

I haven't got time to do proper reviews of all the tracks just yet, but I will...

But with regards to the original tracks-
WHAT was going on with the autotune on this? It's quite brutal. It's one thing to track parts that may have problems, another to introduce the problems as part of the postproduction process. What's even more puzzling is that most people seem to have completely missed the words that were tuned a semitone out!
Adam


Yeah.  I don't have Melodyne installed, so I wasn't gonna take the time to fix it.


No need for Melodyne. A simple pitch shift plugin does the trick.
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: Tricklecharge on October 28, 2008, 02:34:27 pm
Fiasco wrote on Tue, 28 October 2008 12:50

Colin Larson wrote on Tue, 28 October 2008 13:38


Tricklecharge:  Did you and Fiasco work together on this one? ;D


Laughing



Fiasco copied my great idea of slowing it down Razz
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: T. Mueller on October 28, 2008, 02:38:05 pm
Quote:


No need for Melodyne. A simple pitch shift plugin does the trick.


True.  My point: I intentionally didn't mess with it.  But again, to whoever mentioned it, I'm glad you pointed it out.  We're all here to learn.  Thanks.
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: Colin Larson on October 28, 2008, 02:43:43 pm
J-Texas wrote on Tue, 28 October 2008 13:10

Colin Larson wrote on Tue, 28 October 2008 12:38

kind of like firefly's mix,


Unexciting?  Rolling Eyes  

Hey, you said it... I didn't.  Very Happy


here's what I said:

Colin Larson

...kind of like firefly's mix, the drums seem sort of disconnected...


I meant that you both had sample-y-sounding drums.  I didn't think your mix sounded paticularly unexciting in any way.  Although after you listen to 20 mixes of the same song back to back it gets hard to tell anything!
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: fiasco ( P.M.DuMont ) on October 28, 2008, 04:57:33 pm
Installment 1.

As always, grain of salt, yada, yada, yada.

Colin Larson - Cool pad like effect, from the Rhodes? Piano is a touch too loud, but I think you knew that.
It sounded like the first bass note got clipped.
Pretty good balance overall.


J-Texas - Not sure that the drums suited the tune, the kick was slappy and the snare seemed heavy on the left channel.
Pretty quiet vocals. A little unbalanced.


EHouston - Piano sitting loud to me, vocals a little wet. Bass could be brought up.
Mix could use more balance between instruments.


grant richard - The replaced drums seem unattached to the tune.
I liked the treatments during the breakdown. Good ideas at the end.
Good balance.


osumosan - Felt a touch bass heavy, vocals are slightly muffled.
The drums seemed over compressed.


slash5969 - The drums seem like they are coming from a distance.
I like the way the piano sits in the mix. Guitars @ 2:30 a bit loud.
Nice ending arrangement.


SingSing - Good drums. Distorted guitars @ 1:45 seem a bit muddy but it's a cool idea.
The second git section a little loud. Weird click @ 2:39. Cool ending.
Good balance.


Jonah A. Kort - Mmmm, not sure about the growly bass.
The transition at 1:46 comes across as harsh. Everything overly wet.
Needs better balance.


Tricklecharge - Stupid sample rate.
I like the spooky noises... cool. Those open hats are really distracting.
Vocals a little wet.

I think I am starting to like the slow "version" better.


More to come.

Peace
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: Colin Larson on October 28, 2008, 05:24:31 pm
I noticed there were a few that didn't make it to the submission page...  who did this one? http://www.prosoundweb.com/imp/files/Imp20_RwApeMix.mp3

It's really cool, my favorite of them all Very Happy
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: slash5969 on October 28, 2008, 05:58:37 pm
Blind listens by number - names mated up with reviews after the fact. My impressions only, and I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination.

0dbfs - Very ethereal vibe overall. Drum remnants in the intro are a distraction. Vocal treatment seems a little heavy-handed. It’s not necessary to beat people over the head with effects – a little goes a long way, even more so when subjected to the critical listening that an IMP submission receives. I like the stark ending.

Mkane – Solid. Nice snap in the snare. Drums are balanced and crisp. Tame that Rhodes a bit and this is a really coherent mix. Vocal effects are unobtrusive, which makes them an addition as opposed to a subtraction. Vocal level perhaps a bit hot overall, but that’s picking fly shit out of the pepper. Nicely done.

YZ – Solid bottom end. Drums are snappy and present. Rhodes is overdone to the point of distraction. Vocal effects are a tad overdone – when you entice the listener to concentrate on the effect, you are diverting attention from the song itself. (I learned this lesson the hard way in a previous IMP.) Too much guitar chinga chinga.

NelsonL – Straight-forward feel to this mix. Drums are crisp and perhaps a bit understated, or is it that the vocal is too up front? It’s a bit off-kilter, regardless. Rhodes track is featured here, and I heard it much more as flavoring. I like the uncluttered ending.

sstillwell – Too much Rhodes. Bass is solid and clear. Crisp drums, although I’d like more whomp in the kick and perhaps a little less overhead. Out-front vocal, well-treated.  Reverb choice suits the vibe. Lose some Rhodes and add a little beef to that kick.

ICombs – Balanced and crisp. Drums snap, crackle, and pop. Can I have a bit more kick? Too much Rhodes for my taste, but that seems to be a common thread to most of these mixes and it’s not as overdone here as some of the others.  Vocal sits nicely in the mix. I’m not a fan of ending with the Rhodes.

EHouston – Where’s the beef? Anemic bass. No punch in the kick. Nice pop in the snare. Vocal a tad out-front, and vocal treatment a little heavy-handed in places. I like the sparse ending.

Billybehdazz – Anemic kick. Crisp snare. Drums work much better after the bass guitar comes in. Too much Rhodes. I want more bottom here, more oomph. As a result, it feels crowded in upper-mids – like a stereo with the loudness button off.

Electric Warrior – Here we go – some drums with a little whomp to ‘em. Perhaps a bit too much overhead. Crisp snare, meaty kick.  Vocal sits nicely – I like the verb. More subtle Rhodes treatment would be better, but it appears to be overdone in most of these so maybe it’s just me.

slash5969 – This is mine – I recognize the piano fade-in on the left. Meaty bottom. Nice punch. Crisp drums with lotsa snap. Perhaps a bit too much bass guitar in retrospect, although I like the way it punches, fo' sho'. I like the way that pesky Rhodes isn’t the featured track here. I like the faded-in piano in both places, and the sparse ending.

MG Audio – Oh yeah. Solid drums – crisp and punchy. This feels balanced and snappy. Perhaps a bit much cymbal shimmer, but I’m nitpicking.  Vocal sits nicely. I like this mix a lot. Wait. The delay on the acoustic doesn’t work for me, and I don’t dig the Rhodes ending – but those are the only things I’d change.

DCombs – Yes! Solid and balanced, all-around. Drums are right on. Crisp and snappy and make my toes tap. Rhodes isn’t over-the-top. Bass is solid without overpowering. Too much cymbal. Vocals are perfect. Lose the Rhodes ending, tame the cymbal crashes a bit and this is the best mix I’ve heard so far. Nicely done!

T Mueller – Interesting edits, very creative. The very beginning didn’t work for me, but I like the drum stagger before the vocals start.  Bass seems a bit underfed. Drums are crisp – nice snare pop. This feels a bit busy overall, but that may be a product of how different it is from the others and the fact that I’ve listened to this song entirely too many times at this point.

JCMastering – This is understated and a bit dry. It didn’t really work for me until the second time through, when I turned the volume up. Nicely balanced. Drums are punchy and solid. Bass grooves. Rhodes not overdone. Vocal feels sort of… plain.  Not a fan of the Rhodes ending.

Adam Miller – Great drums – in an IMP where most all the drums have been good. I love this snare – crisp and alive.  Nothing fancy here, but everything is balanced and clean. Rhodes is flavor, not meat. Vocal sits nicely in the mix. I don’t like the Rhodes ending, but this is one of the top two or three mixes I’ve heard. Well done!

martthie 08 - Well balanced and solid. Plenty of snap in the drums. Piano is perhaps a little domineering - a little automation would go a long way. Sparse use of the Rhodes tracks - and you know I like that. In fact, I like it all. Nice job!

HIssSound - More bass, please. Good drum sounds. Some pop in the snare - short reverb? Some meat in the kick. I like. Vocal lays in there nicely. A touch less Rhodes on the ending, a tad more bass overall and you're there, I think.

The Dan - Another well balanced mix. Good drums. Too much Rhodes - I didn't hear it as a lead instrument so much. Vocal is maybe a little dry - or is it merely overwhelmed by that Rhodes?

Firefly - Solid. Vocal more up front than most, but that's not neccessarily a bad thing. More bass, please? Less Rhodes through the rebuild while we're at it. I like the understated guitar usage - you don't have to club people over the head with stuff to make a point. *Makes mental note* Not a fan of the Rhodes ending.

J-Texas - Solid and crisp. Nice balanced feel. Snare is a little...immediate - like it's in a room all by itself. Is it a panning thing, or do I just want some reverb depth? I'm not a fan of the Rhodes through the end section.

Grant Richard - I like the punch and snap in the drums. The Rhodes is too prominent for me. I'd like more bass, please. I really like this vocal treatment, it's up front and clear. Shimmering reverb. Interesting use of guitar at the end, but I'm not big on the Rhodes as final statement.

Fiasco - Whaaaaaattt thissssss tuuuuuuuuune ssouuuuuuuundssss liiiiiiike aafterrrrr the quaaaaaaaaaaaalude kiiiiiicksssss iiiiiinnnnnnnn.

osumosan - Balanced and grooving. Crisp drum sounds, perhaps a tad cymbal-heavy in places but it does groove my shoes. Prominent Rhodes. Sparkling vocal - I love the placement you get here. Ack @ the Rhodes outro.

SingSing - Oh yeah - that's a great snare! Meaty kick too. Too much Rhodes for me. It's like a vanilla coke with too  much vanilla in it. The heavily distorted guitar after the breakdown sort of misses too, but I like that it's different after a dozen or so times through this tune.  I like the heartbeat ending.

Colin Larson - Nice pop in the snare. Rhodes stuff is...rounded off? What is that? It works better than the raw tracks, I think, but it's still spice masquerading as meat. I like this one anyway. Breath-y vocal - nice feel there. Piano might be a tad hot through the verses. I like the ending.

Jonah A Kort - What's that rattling in the bass? Too much Rhodes for me, and the abrubt editing doesn't work. Solid drum sounds for the most part. Delayed acoustic doesn't really work, either. There are too many distractions in this mix - anything that draws attention to the cleverness of the mix engineer by extension almost always detracts from the song.

Tricklecharge - Backwards and underwater. I know it's a sample-rate issue, but it's disconcerting. That said, I like the dynamics here. It doesn't pop and groove like I expect it to, and the vocal tuning is much more obvious. This is like playing an old 45 at 33 RPM. Strange distortion at the end passage, but a really cool ending! I would like to hear your mix at the normal sample rate.
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: TheDan on October 28, 2008, 06:22:47 pm
I don't have time to review separately, but I just wanted to add a few blanket comments.

Mostly, these tracks were pretty much great from the start, so why is there so much "BIGASS DRUMS"? (watch the movie Idiocracy) Really not necessary for the song. The vocal was obviously compressed on the way in or at some point before we got the tracks, so why compress it again? If you need more volume in spots, ride the fader or automate. (that was me being a hypocrite, because I a agree mine was too quiet, and dry Embarassed )


There was a lot of atmosphere to be had with the guitar swells and rhodes things, so all the crazy reverbs and delay things on top of that were kind of unnecessary . I thought all the goodies on some mixes distracted from the simple solidness of the song as a whole.

This is all my opinion of course, and I hope not to offend anyone. This whole thing is just fun, and I want to be involved in the future if I have time.


Quote:

TheDan: Do something to get the vocal a little more out front and this mix would be pretty near perfect


Wow, thanks man!

-Dan




Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: Jonah A. Kort on October 28, 2008, 06:36:51 pm
I think Slash doesn't like the Rhodes part Very Happy
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: fiasco ( P.M.DuMont ) on October 28, 2008, 06:39:54 pm
slash5969 wrote on Tue, 28 October 2008 17:58


Fiasco - Whaaaaaattt thissssss tuuuuuuuuune ssouuuuuuuundssss liiiiiiike aafterrrrr the quaaaaaaaaaaaalude kiiiiiicksssss iiiiiinnnnnnnn.



Good one!

Sorry for all this.
Please, for future review use this download.

 http://www.prosoundweb.com/imp/files/IMP_20_Fiasco_notslow.m p3
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: Jonah A. Kort on October 28, 2008, 07:15:57 pm
slash5969 wrote on Tue, 28 October 2008 16:58


Jonah A Kort - What's that rattling in the bass? Too much Rhodes for me, and the abrubt editing doesn't work. Solid drum sounds for the most part. Delayed acoustic doesn't really work, either. There are too many distractions in this mix - anything that draws attention to the cleverness of the mix engineer by extension almost always detracts from the song.



Thanks Dave

I still have trouble with bass, but I get better  with each mix.

I like delay a lot. That simple.  I leave it to the artist to tell me that something is detracting from they're song.  I genuinely like the delayed parts, maybe that because I did it, I don't care they still make my heart flutter.

I thought the abrupt editing was badass and thought it added a touch of aggressiveness to make the 2nd verse fresh and interesting.

Thanks about the drums I've been working hard on that.  

-jonah  
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: slash5969 on October 28, 2008, 07:39:18 pm
Jonah A. Kort wrote on Tue, 28 October 2008 17:36

I think Slash doesn't like the Rhodes part Very Happy



Ha!

Well, not as a featured part anyway.  Surprised
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: NelsonL on October 29, 2008, 01:02:23 am
TheDan wrote on Tue, 28 October 2008 15:22

I don't have time to review separately, but I just wanted to add a few blanket comments.

Mostly, these tracks were pretty much great from the start, so why is there so much "BIGASS DRUMS"? (watch the movie Idiocracy) Really not necessary for the song. The vocal was obviously compressed on the way in or at some point before we got the tracks, so why compress it again? If you need more volume in spots, ride the fader or automate. (that was me being a hypocrite, because I a agree mine was too quiet, and dry Embarassed )


There was a lot of atmosphere to be had with the guitar swells and rhodes things, so all the crazy reverbs and delay things on top of that were kind of unnecessary . I thought all the goodies on some mixes distracted from the simple solidness of the song as a whole.

This is all my opinion of course, and I hope not to offend anyone. This whole thing is just fun, and I want to be involved in the future if I have time.


Quote:

TheDan: Do something to get the vocal a little more out front and this mix would be pretty near perfect


Wow, thanks man!

-Dan








I'd agree that the use of samples is kind of divorced from the vibe of the song in many of the mixes, but I also think the rhythm section is the only emotionally dynamic component, really only because of the killer groove, I actually wanted to hear some crazy fills to add excitement, but that's just me-- vox is pretty deadpan, piano is kind of monotonous, rhodes and guitars are mostly just embellishment.  So the impulse to enhance the impact of the drums is, in my opinion, a good thing.

While the drums sound good, they don't sound like a record when you push up the faders.




Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: Colin Larson on October 29, 2008, 08:45:33 am
yeah, that kick wasn't so bad, but the snare definitely needed some TLC...  although I agree with TheDan's side of it too, some of the tracks just had these drums that were so big they had nothing to do with the genre.  

It's the samples that really get me confused... later in life, I want to be the guy that makes the killer drum sounds that people sample, ya know?  You're not gonna get any better at spicing up drums by reading the manual for Sound Replacer!  Especially on a freebie mix like this where anything goes, do something goofy like making the orignal snare sound like a jack-in-the-box opening up.. hahaha

It might not sound right for the song at all, but at least later on if someone asks you to make their snare sound like a jack-in-the-box, you don't have to go "Gee, I don't have that sample in my library.."
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: Adam Miller on October 29, 2008, 01:15:54 pm
Colin Larson wrote on Wed, 29 October 2008 12:45

 Especially on a freebie mix like this where anything goes...


Just as an aside- there's no reason to ever invest anything less than 100% in a mix you do, whether it's for free or not- and especially if it's being aired in public. The freebies you do are the ones that'll end up getting you work at some point in the future...
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: T. Mueller on October 29, 2008, 01:50:31 pm
Raise your hand if you used samples.  

(*My hand is staying down.*)
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: Adam Miller on October 29, 2008, 02:18:16 pm
Here are my reviews, in the order they pop up in my itunes. These are just my initial impressions- of each one as I flick through. Apologies if I miss anyone.

NelsonL - The drums are a bit bombastic, and the bass is a bit clacky- but not a bad balance at all, nice overall vibe.

BillyBehdaz- Tonality, especially of the vocal, is a little bit strained and unnatural. Good balance though. Drums also a bit bombastic, but kind of works. Like what you did with the acoustic guitar at the end, tamed that ridiculous fingernail picking well. Well spotted with the vocal tuning, but you missed 'But' at 0:40 ish! overall good vibe though.

Firefly- Drums sound pedestrian and boring. Vocal is ok, but it does sit a bit proud of the mix at the start, in tonality as well as level. Autopanning acoustic might work at the end if the picking sound wasn't so pronounced!

Fiasco- appropriate name! Kind of dig the vibe of it this slow though!

TheDan- Bass end is too heavy. Vocal is buried way down too.

iCombs- Kick is thin, and the snare has aspirations far beyond the scope of this tune! The level of the piano and rhodes is quite distracting versus the relatively low vocals.

eh91311- Drums need work. The slap is too loud, and kind of obscures anything else I could say I'm afraid.

Electric Warrior- The drum compression and the perspective it gives the kit doesn't really sit well with this tune. The vocal is also a bit low.

JasonThompson- Think you've got some monitoring issues here, the bass is loud and the vox are quiet. Compared to the tonality of the rest of the track, the ohs are too bright. Mistrigger on the kick too...

JCMastering- Another very quiet vocal. Sounds need working much more, especially the kit, seems quite lumpy at the moment.

JonahAKort- Piano and rhodes far too OTT. Distortion on the bass doesn't fit this tune at all, nor does the empty cathedral reverb. Or the Mad Scientist delay on the guitar.

MGAudio- Snare sits too far back in the mix versus the kick and bass. Really loses power in the second chorus bit with the 8th note electric guitars. Another Mad Scientist delay on the acoustic.

MGT- Another congested low end. Shame, because I think otherwise the balance would be alright.

RwApemix- Vocal is very thin, drums bright. Monitoring issues going on here I think. Some of the little ambient things going on are quite nice, but definitely at the expense of the heart of the mix.

Tricklecharge- Might work quite well in place of sleeping pills at this speed!

GrantRichard- Bit too much kick drum maybe? Don't get the vocal treatment at all, strips it of the intimacy I think it needs. the balance of piano/rhodes/guitars to vocal sounds very expansive- not sure if that vibe fits the mood or not really. Interesting rhythmic shift at the end- I'm so used to hearing the other way round I can't tell if it works or not!

HissSound- Lay off the deessers, please!

Osumosan- Compression treatment on the drums doesn't work at all. Another one with vocal-sung-through-duvet tonality. Do you have a blown tweeter? The tonality shift to that ride cymbal is crazy!

YZ- A ok balance! Hurrah! The vocal still sits beneath where it should be under the hats/ride cymbal though. The ring mod type thing going on with the vocal at the end is a bit odd.

ColinL- Nice ambient stuff in the intro. Mids sound scooped out, and the cymbal highs are a bit sparkly though. Within themselves the drum sounds are good though, and the balance is generally there.

sstillwell- All the twinkly bubbly chorussy stuff is bad, and appears to have been done to the detriment of the rest of the mix.

Mkane- Wierd vocal stuff going on on the esses. Not so keen on the tones you've got, but the balance is there.

SingSing- The kick and the bass are too heavy but the vocal sits where it should, the balance is good, and there's no stupid effects shit going on. Wow- the vocoder stuff at the end kind of works too- Good vibe, I like!

JOBU- Some digital glitching going on at 1:03. Reverb and chorus on the vocal distract from everything else, which is a shame because beneath it all I think there are some decent drum tones lurking.  

As an overall trend, I really got the impression that people spent more time messing around with tweaky delay VSTs and drum compression than actually mixing the tracks. There's also a lack of attention to detail in many of these mixes- not entirely sure how so many could miss the vocal tuning spots and little things like that that immediately detract from the professionalism of a mix.

Thanks to grant for providing the tracks- I had a lot of fun mixing it, and in hindsight I can see a bunch of things that I'd do differently in my mix.

Adam
 
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: fiasco ( P.M.DuMont ) on October 29, 2008, 03:01:25 pm
Adam Miller wrote on Wed, 29 October 2008 14:18


Fiasco- appropriate name! Kind of dig the vibe of it this slow though!



Thanks for the listen.
If you'd like to hear the proper upload, it is here:

http://www.prosoundweb.com/imp/files/IMP_20_Fiasco_notslow.m p3
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: Jonah A. Kort on October 29, 2008, 03:48:55 pm
T. Mueller wrote on Wed, 29 October 2008 12:50

Raise your hand if you used samples.  

(*My hand is staying down.*)


Not me.
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: iCombs on October 29, 2008, 05:38:29 pm
*halfway raises hand*

I used room samples on the kick and snare instead of sending them to a verb...does that count?
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: Podgorny on October 29, 2008, 06:31:19 pm
I know it's WAY late and therefore not included in the discussion.
But I've been busy.  And since Grant recorded this, I felt some ridiculous obligation to give it 30 minutes of my time...  So that's what I did.

Enjoy, Grant!


http://kylemann.com/misc/imp20_podgorny_mix.mp3



Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: grantis on October 29, 2008, 07:17:53 pm
You dork.
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: fiasco ( P.M.DuMont ) on October 29, 2008, 07:25:11 pm
Installment 2.


MGT - The low end is distorted and everything seems that it was pushed a little hot.
Beyond that there was good balance between instruments.


DCombs - Very sizzley high end.
Low end seemed anemic, maybe due to the highs.
The bass tone was pretty cool, I would double and blend the original track underneath to add meat.


sstillwell - Vocals a little wet for my taste. Bass seemed to need depth.
I liked the cool bleeps and whistles.
The whole mix could have used more dynamic variations.


Billybehdazz - Good ideas for the intro. Drums sound slappy and over compressed.
There was an odd piano edit at 1:36. Cool guitars on outro.


MKane - Drums sound closed in, and the snare verb sounds like it's coming from somewhere else.
Different snare tone peaking through @ 1:36.
Overall too wet, if the mix was less wet it would have been pretty good.


Electric Warrior - Wow, a quiet mix. Come on man, squeeze it until it hurts and sucks. Razz
This mix could have used a tad more bass and the open hats were distracting.
Besides that good balance. Thanks for not crushing it.


JCMastering - This is completely overly crushed and distorted.
Kinda hurts to listen to. Sorry.


Adam Miller - I liked it except the drums sound too pinched.
Decent balance, guitars hot @ 2:13.


StarScream2010 (?) - Generally pretty hazy and the drums sound inorganic.
There are some good ideas in there.


One more installment to go.

Peace.
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: fiasco ( P.M.DuMont ) on October 29, 2008, 07:28:12 pm
Podgorny wrote on Wed, 29 October 2008 18:31

I know it's WAY late and therefore not included in the discussion.
But I've been busy.  And since Grant recorded this, I felt some ridiculous obligation to give it 30 minutes of my time...  So that's what I did.

Enjoy, Grant!


http://kylemann.com/misc/imp20_podgorny_mix.mp3







That was awesome. Thanks.
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: Podgorny on October 29, 2008, 07:50:37 pm
grant richard wrote on Wed, 29 October 2008 18:17

You dork.




Exactly the kind of response I was hoping for.
You're welcome.




Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: grantis on October 29, 2008, 08:00:07 pm
Don't get me wrong, I think its funny.  I'm hip too ya know.
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: Podgorny on October 29, 2008, 08:16:50 pm
No, I get it.
It's cool.
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: T. Mueller on October 30, 2008, 07:52:15 am
I very seriously considered doing some beats like that, and modifying the vocal to sound kinda all BT all over your FACE.

Then I realized that Grant would call me a dork.
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: gringo on October 30, 2008, 10:19:39 am
I'm listening on a horrible boom box type thing...called the Audiophase. Doesn't instill confidence.

MKane-
Piano is loud and proud. Everything seems to be in a nice place here. Nice mix.


YZ- Only thing I heard that seemed slightly wierd was at the end. Something under the vox.
Wan't loud enough to hear it clearly, but loud enough to be kind of distracting.


NelsonL- Vocal seems alittle hot. Everything else seems too far away in contrast. The 2nd verse is better.


sstillwell-The rhodes has been mangled, I like the sound of it but the timing is a tad distracting in places.
Decent mix otherwise.

ICombs-The piano and the rhodes seem to be fighting each other in places. But it wasn't a deal breaker.


AdamMiller-Good sounding mix, maybe a little dry overall. Seems to lack a sense of excitement or feeling or something.

More to come...


randy
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: NelsonL on October 30, 2008, 10:48:28 am
T. Mueller wrote on Wed, 29 October 2008 10:50

Raise your hand if you used samples.  

(*My hand is staying down.*)


I had to go back and look-- I used a kick sample, and drove the main plate, as well as a pre-delayed non linear verb with a snare sample.
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: YZ on October 30, 2008, 11:13:07 am
Listening in the same environment I did my mix, in no particular order:


Billybehdaz:

Piano a bit skinny for my taste; nice thing with the reverse/de-reverse pianos; I like the different drum sounds at the intro too. Dryness works well in contrast with the more effected parts; like the ac gtr treatment too. Still think that the piano could have more meat to it.

iCombs:

Nice interplay and treatment of the Rhodes and swell gtrs, interesting effect on the vocal that does not work so well in some sections; like the piano sound, interesting drums.

EHouston:

vocal effect overdone IMHO; piano not so skinny but still could be more meaty; drum sound works well within the mix, not aggressive; could have used the Rhodes here and there to add variety.

NelsonL:

eheh...  out-of-this-world intro...  cool.  very interesting treatment of Rhodes and swell gtrs, seems that you assimilated the original intention and took it one step further; bass gtr a bit too 'subwoofy', or is it its interplay with the BD? could have stepped back a bit the vocal effect on the first phrase. cool.

RwApe:

what can I say? I like it, except the snare that sounds too boxy and a tad loud; I like the different vocal treatments. good bass gtr.

Sstillwell:

Good intro; like the drum sound; fat round bass, dominating but feels good to me; the piano treatment clashes, is distracting; OTOH I like the rhodes and swell gtrs; vocal effect not bad but could have started a bit lower, then reaching the final level after the first phrase. except for the piano as noted, I like it.

0dbfs:

Creative intro, I like the 'dreamy' piano and runaround drums; good edit, works; like the drums, they fulfill their function without calling too much attention; I like fat basses but think that maybe here it is a tad too much, a matter of taste (and monitoring); miss the piano; the swell gtr treatment is good but IMHO could have more of the original sound in some spots; vocal effect in tune with the dreamy intro; I like the overall result but not as much as I liked some of the other mixes.

DCombs:

Drums OK to me, the snare starts well but gets a bit squashed by the second chorus; bass good; vocal a tad low and a miss a 'something' in there that I can't put to words; piano is full without being obese; the stereoized ac gtr works; the overall feeling is of sparseness, like something is still missing or not quite there.

Adam Miller:

Shortened intro works; Piano a little boxy, as the vocal; drums fit the vibe; bass fat (good) but needs a bit more definition; rhodes auto-pan works; needs some spice overall.

Electric Warrior:

drums dry and OK, bass a bit lean for my taste, as is the piano; the overall result has an intimacy that works; careful with the lopsidedness and dynamics of the OHs, it detracts from the result specially at the second chorus.

JCMastering:

Vocal definitely has something missing, it is not present enough; I like the piano sound; another mix that lacks overall 'spice' even while having some interesting things happening like the gtr treatment on the second chorus; the waveform was a bit asymmetrical, not that it matters in terms of sound.

MGAudio:

I like the piano, no surprise since it sounds similar to mine...  drums a bit too trashy and squashed for my taste; vocal OK; I like your bass better than mine; played a bit safe with the Rhodes and swell gtrs; the ac gtr fx don't match the rest of the song.

MGT:

I like the boldness of the swell gtrs, the Rhodes is shy in comparison; drums boxy, bass 'unclear'; vox OK; overall it does not come together as well as many of the other mixes.

HissSound:

Abrupt edit at the start... vocals sound strange, filtered; drums a bit muffled; with clearer drums and a different vocal treatment this mix could improve a lot, I liked all of the other aspects.

Slash:

I like the vocal, piano, drums, basically everything but the bass, does not match the drums, lacks clarity; the piano panning at the middle is a bit odd.

TheDan:

Drums could be more open, need some air; I like the gradual change of the Rhodes, but personally would have preferred the swell gtr less effected in this mix; otherwise a good straightforward mix.

T Mueller:

Good start. OMG what's with the squash-o-rama?  if you want to go with such drums, the bass has to follow, and it is not. Vocal is uni-dimensional. Rhodes and swell gtrs OK but too much swell at the end, piano good too.

Mkane:

Drums work well with the bass, but IMHO don't match the rest of the mix; Rhodes and swell gtrs OK, ac gtr too. The drums, piano and vocal fx don't add up to a cohesive mix, however.

J-Texas:

Vocal is timid.  flappy drums. maybe I did not get your spirit here, but it did not strike me as interesting.

JonahAKort:

Intro edit good (I have to like it, I did the same); overall sound scooped; piano fx a bit distracting;  middle edit abrupt; don't like the saturation/OD sound of part II and the outro delays/fx are distracting.

singsing:

Shortened intro too, a recurring option for this IMP; I like the bass gtr, but it is a tad strong; vocal is OK too; drums not bad but miss some sparkle; drums at outro interesting; I dislike the saturation fx from the middle break onwards, I don't think they match the spirit.

Tricklecharge:

I corrected the sample rate of the submitted file so I got it to play at the right pitch, but since it was mixed at the wrong rate the sound would not be what you intended, so no review.

ColinL:

Very nice treatment of the swell gtr/Rhodes; kinda squashed overall, spitty drums, vocal kinda strained; bass present but squalid.

grantrichard:

Drums too processed; a little less fx on the vocal would be good; bass gets lost between the drum sound and the song vibe; interesting Rhodes and swell gtrs.

Osumosan:

BIG piano, I like it; then the rest come in and is so muffled... then spitty OHs come in... outro sounds ok but the vocals are still scooped.


Firefly:

Too much vocal. Rhodes fx good; the balances were too far off (for me) to give a proper evaluation. Or my ears were too shot to allow me to do it.

YZ:

Drums could be a bit more open; vocal good but still does not have the sparkle I've seen in a few other mixes; HH could have been tamed a bit; middle break creates contrast and showcases the unusual Rhodes; low end round, maybe a little too much? vocal fx at the outro may or may not work for the client; intro,
middle and outro edits good, shorten the parts while still keeping flavor.



PS:
I'd like to thank everyone for participating and offering their mixes for review, and those who took the time to listen and posted their reviews.

Grant, thank you for the tracks.
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: j.hall on October 30, 2008, 11:15:56 am
Adam Miller wrote on Wed, 29 October 2008 12:15

Colin Larson wrote on Wed, 29 October 2008 12:45

 Especially on a freebie mix like this where anything goes...


Just as an aside- there's no reason to ever invest anything less than 100% in a mix you do, whether it's for free or not- and especially if it's being aired in public. The freebies you do are the ones that'll end up getting you work at some point in the future...



preach it my british brutha!!!!

i haven't read all the comments, nor have i listened to all the mixes, i'll just chime in with a comment on samples.

skill set and experience are invaluable.  you can never remove either of those from any comments, ideas, or judgments on your work or some one else's.  that being said, and meant to encourage people to keep learning and trying new techniques to the tracks you are given.  the bottom line here is that using samples is a means to an end.  it's a tool in the tool box you can choose to use or not.  it certainly can be abused, like any other tool, and it certainly can be used to your overall advantage.  knowing how, when, and where to use samples is what separates mixers from each other.  no one is to say whose right or wrong with their implimentaion.  there is a certain thing that using samples affords you in a mix.  it's something that's hard to shy away from as it can (it typically does) make your life VASTLY easier.  

i think at the end of the day, you just need to evaluate your own personal opinion on all this.  if you don't dig samples, then don't use them.  just know and understand the full extent of that decision.  and vice versa!!!

also, don't ever overlook using the exact same drum that was recorded to replace it with.  if i'm signed on to mix a project before it goes into tracking i beg the tracking engineer to give me discrete samples of each drum, soft hit and a hard hit.  no cymbals, just drums.

samples on drums started being used for a variety of reasons, one of the biggest was, to eliminate the bleed from other drums.  so as you EQ and compress you are just treating the one sound and not effecting any of the others.
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: Mkane on October 30, 2008, 04:01:29 pm
T. Mueller wrote on Wed, 29 October 2008 13:50

Raise your hand if you used samples.  

(*My hand is staying down.*)

I did have a snare sample under original.(60%-40%).

Mkane
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: fiasco ( P.M.DuMont ) on October 30, 2008, 05:30:11 pm
Final installment.


JCMastering - Vocals are a touch too low. Kick jumps out a bit.
The highs seemed a bit veiled but overall good balance.


iCombs - Snare is overly wet and the drums in general seem distorted.
I really like the piano dropping out @ 1:07. Good idea.


NelsonL - Bass guitar was too jangle-y for me.
Compression on the drums distracting.
I liked your treatments on the background instrumentation.


MGA - The drums are too slappy and the hats a bit hot.
Snare compression is overdone, but decent balance throughout.


RawApeMix (who?) - Interesting ideas.
Sounded more like a re-mix to me.


HissSound - Vocals sounded kind of veiled.
Something felt like it was disconnecting the instruments from each other.
Hard to put my finger on, perhaps the kick/snare in relation to the rest.


TheDan - The vocals could use a little more sparkle.
Guitars are hot @ 2:24.
Pretty good balance. I liked it.


Firefly - What? What are those? Dynamics?
This is a mix I was able to turn up.
I felt the piano could have been brought up more to meet the drums and vocals.
With the exception of the above, great balance.


YZ - The guitars @ 2:03 got a bit hot and the vocals at the end are somewhat distracting.
That being said, this mix felt very balanced, if not a touch over compressed or limited.



Peace.
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: T. Mueller on October 30, 2008, 06:17:54 pm
Quote:


i think at the end of the day, you just need to evaluate your own personal opinion on all this.  if you don't dig samples, then don't use them.  just know and understand the full extent of that decision.  and vice versa!!!

samples on drums started being used for a variety of reasons, one of the biggest was, to eliminate the bleed from other drums.  so as you EQ and compress you are just treating the one sound and not effecting any of the others.


Yeah, I totally agree.  I was just honestly curious who used them and who didn't.  Most of you guys have a better ear than I do, and can tell who did and who didn't better than I can, so I needed an actual headcount. : )
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: j.hall on October 31, 2008, 11:16:37 am
i don't have time for individual reviews.....sorry guys.

however, i've listened to them all (well, clips of them all) and these are my favs.(not in order)

0dbfs
DCombs
Grant Richard


my favorite by far is:
MKane
nice work!

i did a *quick* rough to illustrate what my comments would be based off of.  i put it on the imp server for those who might want to listen.  it is *not* a submission!!!!!  it ended up a little too wet, and by no means is it a finished mix, i did that in 45 minutes.

overall i think the rhythm section treatments are weak.

this song is all about the rhythm section.  which makes it harder to mix because you have nothing to hide behind.  if your rhythm section blend is not awesome, the song will fall flat.  awesome can be MANY different things.  so if you decide to listen to my rough, that's probably the best thing to pay attention to.
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: Mkane on October 31, 2008, 05:20:39 pm
[quote title=j.hall wrote on Fri, 31 October 2008 11:16]



Wow!Thanks a lot!I would also like thank everyone who listened and shared their thoughts about my mix.I have never ever get this much feedback for my mixes.I hope I find some time to listen and maybe write something about submissions.
Mine was done with macbook and logic 8.Stock plugins and waves musicians bundle2.Apogee duet to Mackie 1202-VLZpro to Genelec 1030.

Mkane
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: YZ on November 01, 2008, 03:06:45 pm
Hmmm... over 25 submissions and only about half-a-dozen reviews so far.

Come on, guys, let us know what you thought about the mixes!! Don't be shy!

This is what IMP is about, to hear each other's perspectives.

Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: grantis on November 02, 2008, 11:58:02 pm
I intend to post my comments soon, I have not had time to listen to the mixes yet.  Very sorry, I am looking forward to posting!
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: T. Mueller on November 03, 2008, 09:42:53 am
Quote:


T Mueller:
if you want to go with such drums, the bass has to follow, and it is not.


So, here's a question, I guess.  By "the bass has to follow", do you mean that it needs to be as compressed?  I couldn't find a good way to beef up the bass after minimal attempts.  Can anyone provide a suggestion or two?

And I'll try to post more reviews.  I had done all of them up to a certain point, and haven't gone back yet.  I clearly have a lot to learn...
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: YZ on November 03, 2008, 12:35:55 pm
T. Mueller wrote on Mon, 03 November 2008 12:42

Quote:


T Mueller:
if you want to go with such drums, the bass has to follow, and it is not.


So, here's a question, I guess.  By "the bass has to follow", do you mean that it needs to be as compressed?  I couldn't find a good way to beef up the bass after minimal attempts.  Can anyone provide a suggestion or two?

And I'll try to post more reviews.  I had done all of them up to a certain point, and haven't gone back yet.  I clearly have a lot to learn...


Not a question of compression specifically; the bass sounded (to me) less aggressive than the drums; it was leaning towards that, sure.

A suggestion? if I may...  an amp simulator maybe. I gather you were happy with the drum sounds, or it could have been an option to tame the drums a bit to match the bass.

Hey, this is just me, others have already voiced different opinions about your mix.
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: T. Mueller on November 03, 2008, 03:42:55 pm
Quote:

Hey, this is just me, others have already voiced different opinions about your mix.


That's exactly what I was looking for.  Trying to get better.  I normally don't "mix", and I definitely don't do it as a profession.  As a musician, I'm always looking to better mixes, etc, for demos and such.  Any amp simulators anyone would recommend?
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: Colin Larson on November 03, 2008, 07:40:29 pm
the waves guitar sim stuff is way fun to use in parallel processing type situations.  Especially the pedal plugins.  I've also heard a lot of people say good things about the psp vintage warmer plugin on bass.
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: T. Mueller on November 04, 2008, 09:12:12 am
Thanks, Colin!
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: j.hall on November 05, 2008, 12:08:56 pm
is this IMP wrapped up?


Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: iCombs on November 05, 2008, 01:09:01 pm
I've been trying like hell to get to my crits...been a busy week for me but I should have time coming up here to get them done.
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: J-Texas on November 06, 2008, 01:39:31 pm
+1 !!!!

I'm really not trying to be an ass. I'm buried. You guys know I don't mind giving my opinion.  Rolling Eyes
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: osumosan on November 10, 2008, 01:19:51 pm
My apologies for lameness. Overloaded with work. I started to write some reviews and (my dog ate it) my computer crashed. So demoralizing!
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: SingSing on November 11, 2008, 06:02:19 am
j.hall wrote on Wed, 05 November 2008 12:08

is this IMP wrapped up?





No, I still have to find a couple of hours to critically listen through the submitted mixes. I'm choked at the moment but I'll certainly do it asap.

Peace,

Stefan
SingSing
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: JCMastering on November 11, 2008, 07:03:21 pm
osumosan wrote on Mon, 10 November 2008 12:19

My apologies for lameness. Overloaded with work. I started to write some reviews and (my dog ate it) my computer crashed. So demoralizing!


Same here. My computer decided to take a vacation sunday and monday.  Mad
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: JCMastering on November 17, 2008, 07:53:26 am
Ok , I finally listened to all of them. As this is highly subjective please don't take any comment too seriously. I'll try to keep it short and to the point. Also , having reviewed this many entries and judging by the how little feedback has been received so far , may I suggest that to make the discussion easier the participants be split into groups. Reviewing 10 to 15 entries at a time would be more manageable.

JOBU - like arrangement  , too much reverb , didn't tune vox , some timing issues remain , don't like the sudden end  

Mkane - too much reverb , too much compression , too much delay , scooped mids , missed vocal tuning , timing issues remain , like reverb on acoustic gtr but too much of it

YZ - file is clipped , overall is a bit dark , too much reverb , timing issues remain , rhodes alone is a bit weird but great entrance with gtrs after wards , missed tuning vox , vocal doubling a little loud and rough sounding

NelsonL - background noise (probably due to the distortion) , vox too loud , didn't like the type of distortion used , like fx on rhodes , too much reverb , missed tuning vox

sstillwell - too much fx , don't like intro , timing issues remain , missed tuning vox , don't like outro

iCombs - background noise , too much fx , timing issues remain , missed tuning vox , too much compression , breaths on vocal are too loud

eh91311 - too much reverb , don't like arragement , timing issues remain , bass shy , missed tuning vox , click track bleed

Tricklecharge - interesting intro but a bit long , like the overall mix idea but too much fx , missed tuning vox , don't like the lo-fi fx used

Electric_Warrior - weird spike on one snare hit , background noise , vox too loud , timing issues not so bothersome on this one , too much reverb on drums , snare's image off center

colinl - background noise , too much reverb , too much compression , timing issues remain , like overall idea , missed tuning vox

Osumosan03 - file clipped , background noise , extreme compression , overall a bit dark , cymbals too bright , missed tuning vox , too much fx on vox makes it sound distant , click track bleed , compressor breathing

HissSound - vox a bit loud , rhodes a bit low , some phase issues remain , timing issues remain but no so bothersome , missed tuning vox , good mix I like it

singsing - too much compression , don't like the fx on vox , missed vox tuning , added distortion to gtrs? , good balance , timing issues remain but no so bothersome , don't like eq on acoustic gtr , like outro idea but not the fx used quality wise (a bit too grainy)

grantrichard - file is clipped , don't like drum sounds , too much reverb on vox , don't like arrangement , good balance

Billybehdaz - like vox and bass , like arrangement , in general I like it

MGT - bass heavy , vox too compressed , missed tuning vox , timing issues remain

MGAudio - strange little thump at files beginning (king of like a snare's reverb return or a mistrigered snare sample) , too much reverb on drums , missed tuning vox , didn't like delay on acoustic gtr

Firefly - I like it , vox a bit loud , timing issues remain , missed tuning vox , good balance , don't like acoustic gtr panning , in general a good approach

JasonThompson - hi-hat a bit bright , off center snare , gtrs a bit low , mistrigered samples? , missed tuning vox , offcenter vox , overall good

DCombs - background noise , too much fx , gtr low , timing issues remain , missed vox tuning , too much compression on vox

slash - don't like drum sound , don't like distortion on bass , vox too loud , missed tuning vox , like how you rided rhodes , vox drops in volume at outro , overall ok but less processing would be better , there are phase issues with drums' overheads

STARSCREAM2010 - file is clipped , background noise , hi-hat loud , vox sounds dull , too much compression , excess energy on kick below 50hz , like handling of rhodes and gtrs

TheDan - too much bass , timing issues remain , too much compression (buss compression?) , missed tuning vox , interesting fx on rhodes , too much fx on electric gtrs

JonahAKort - piano is a bit thin sounding , too much distortion on bass , used amp simulation on bass? , too much reverb on vox , low freq plop on vox , don't like delay used on piano , missed vox tuning , like the muting of piano and which I had thought of that , don't like delay on acoustic gtr , the vox reverb at end I like but there is a bit too much of it

RwApeMix - background noise , very nice arrangement ideas , snare a bit loud , did not care for radio fx on vocal at outro , overall I like this version

AdamMiller - file is clipped , background noise with a pronounced spike at 15.4khz (dither?) , interesting snare sound , bass a tad loud , too much compression , center is a bit crowded

TJM - didn't like intro , maybe if reversed , too much compression with pumping breathing and distortion , low end out of control , missed tuning vox , background noise probably because of massive compression

Fiasco - file is clipped , dither noise? , timing issues remain , missed the tuning vox , did not care for vocal fx at outro
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: YZ on November 17, 2008, 10:03:23 am
JCMastering wrote on Mon, 17 November 2008 10:53


YZ - file is clipped


No. There's limiting.  There's no clipping in the file, ie, the 0dB FS samples are as intended.

Thanks for the reviews!


Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: iCombs on November 17, 2008, 12:56:20 pm
Here we go!!!

First off...I'm not going to comment on tuning and timing edits...I, personally, didn't think that this song suffered for any lack of performance or feel, so I was MORE than okay to leave the piano as-is.

AdamMiller - Vocal presence is killer.  Tight and up front.  Unfortunately, I think that comes at the price of punch throughout the rest of the mix...the drums and piano feel really diffuse.  

MG Audio - Piano feels really rich...vocal placement feels pretty comfortable throughout but there are a couple of spots that could've used a little riding.  Like the delay work with the guitars and that interaction with the piano.  DELAY ON THE ACOUSTIC!!  A lot!!  The delay return's got a thump to it like the dry signal that makes it distracting to my ears...some filtering might help that sit in the track better.

SStillwell - WOAH!  Ring modulators from hell?  I don't even know what that is...but there are times when it's pretty cool.  I like the arrangement cut for the last "verse" (or whatever that part is).  Bottom of the mix feels really good...like the vocal treatment as well...bud DAMN am I having trouble getting past the extra stuff.  I think if yoused a little more tactically, it would be more effective.

Firefly - DRY.  Interesting balance choices...piano is WAY back...mix is mostly drums and bass.  Drums feel a little anemic to me...could use some more beef and snap.  Sibilants in the vocal track are a little out of hand...a little de-essing would go a long way.

Tricklecharge - Holy. Crap.  I only had the slowed version...I will say that I liked the intro with all the backwardness.  And...to be honest...I almost like it down at that speed.  WAY different feel.  I'll find your fixed on and put it up in a later set.

TJM - WOW LOUD.  Feels like it's been filtered a lot.  Though, all the crush on it feels weird to me (which is saying something if you listen to my mix).  Vocal is slammed to the max and back.  In a lot of ways, it feels like it's missing some natural dynamics.

Grant Richard - NO bass at the top!  BALLS!!!  Love the sizzle on the top of this mix...hats feel crispy in a cool way.  Would like to hear the whole mix come forward a little bit, especially the vocals.  From like 1.5-4.5k feels a little weak.  Drums are popping really nicely and the bass is tucked in really neatly.

--------------

All I can do for right now, but it's a start.  Will come back to more later.
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: JCMastering on November 17, 2008, 02:22:44 pm
YZ wrote on Mon, 17 November 2008 09:03

JCMastering wrote on Mon, 17 November 2008 10:53


YZ - file is clipped


No. There's limiting.  There's no clipping in the file, ie, the 0dB FS samples are as intended.

Thanks for the reviews!





Maybe the file was not clipped prior to conversion to mp3 , but as submitted is clipped.
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: Electric Warrior on November 17, 2008, 02:52:22 pm
here's my first eight reviews. all very subjective. don't take them too seriously. judging mixes is a really confusing task for me. the more I listen to the different mixes, the less I seem to remember what "good" and "bad" sounds like...

0dbFS: I don't like the delay on the vocals. it might sit better if it was a bit softer or deessed. I like the overall balance. the "chorus"-part needs to stand out more.

Mkane: the snare reverb seems rather big - but that's only my initial reaction to it. fits nicely into the picture once the vocals kick in. I don't like the vocals - they sound weired to me. maybe overly de-essed? nice bass. hi-hat sounds thin and overly bright.

YZ: like the piano. cool vocal thing in the chorus. rhoads solo is a nice idea, but doesn't sound effortless enough.

NelsonL: bass sounds too big to me. vocals have too much treble. sounds hissy and biting. the reverb on the vocals is pretty nice.

sstillwell: cool intro. vocals need more meat. there's plenty of room for it.

iCombs: vocals too soft (but I have to admit I like them on the loud side). too much fx. kick too loud.

EHouston: drums have an interesting flavour - but it doesn't fit the song. snare could use a little reverb. bass too soft. vocal fx are weired. chorus needs to sound bigger

Billybehdazz: I do like the compression on drums, but I think it's too much for this song. vocals need some verb. needs more depth overall. and more low end.
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: SingSing on November 21, 2008, 09:22:56 am
Finally...

I'll write some feedback over the weekend.


Cheers,

Stefan
SingSing
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: Firefly on November 23, 2008, 09:49:36 am
JCMastering wrote on Mon, 17 November 2008 14:53

Also , having reviewed this many entries and judging by the how little feedback has been received so far , may I suggest that to make the discussion easier the participants be split into groups. Reviewing 10 to 15 entries at a time would be more manageable.



+1. Maybe if the it was done as weekly thing, with say five to ten mixes. That way the guys with more confidence/skills could go first and the guys who are still scratching around in the dark would have a much better idea of what to aim for before they started. Mainly though it would make it much easier to relate what other people are saying about the other mixes, not just your own. Just a thought, and sorry for my late entry to this discussion (work overload/lack of studio access/crapped out internet yada yada)

Anyway, in this song I thought the most important thing was the vocal (which I really liked by the way), as it's really carrying the "identity" of this song. Thats where I focused most of my efforts, Conversely though, I can't believe the tuning didn't bug me! half a semitone ?!?!?! Shocked even listening to it now I can hear where its going out, but its weird, it's still not jumping out and smacking me over the head like half a semitone should. Time to do some more ear training...

Also on the theme of vocals, our vocalist seemed to develop a speech impediment in a couple of submissions (Mkane was one, can't remember who else). I think so far only Adam mentioned this in his reviews and I thought it bore repeating that care should be taken with de-esser settings - especially on such an exposed vocal. But take that with a pinch of salt as it seems I was overly conservative with mine...

Beyond that I didn't really pick up on anything that hasn't been mentioned, though thanks to everyone for their reviews!  Surprised  
Title: Re: IMP20 Discussion
Post by: fala on December 04, 2008, 12:27:52 pm
please check http://www.prosoundweb.com/imp/files/imp20falamaster.mp3my version