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Title: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: jimlongo on October 18, 2008, 02:07:25 pm
A crowd of 100,00 (police estimate) turned out to hear Obama in St Louis today, Kansas City tonight.

 http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/10/obam a_draws_record_crowd_in_st.html

 http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/100000_people.ht ml?showall


index.php/fa/10193/0/
Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: Barry Hufker on October 18, 2008, 02:17:18 pm
Being from STL, I'd like to think we're representative of the rest of the state - but we're not.  Get outside the cities and it is a different country.  Obama needs Missouri's small towns.  He already has the cities.

Title: 80k in Denver
Post by: jimlongo on October 18, 2008, 02:36:05 pm
just wanted to share this amazing photo
index.php/fa/10194/0/
Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: jimlongo on October 18, 2008, 02:39:43 pm
Barry Hufker wrote on Sat, 18 October 2008 14:17

Being from STL, I'd like to think we're representative of the rest of the state - but we're not.  Get outside the cities and it is a different country.  Obama needs Missouri's small towns.  He already has the cities.




Hopefully the trend will continue in Missouri
 http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/mo/mi ssouri_mccain_vs_obama-545.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/18/us/politics/18missouri.htm l?pagewanted=1&ref=todayspaper
Title: Re: 80k in Denver
Post by: Daniel Farris on October 18, 2008, 02:42:35 pm
jimlongo wrote on Sat, 18 October 2008 11:36

just wanted to share this amazing photo
index.php/fa/10194/0/


That is amazing... and I hope there is someone whose only job is to keep the candidate himself from seeing photos like this.

DF
Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: RSettee on October 18, 2008, 02:44:49 pm
That picture, as they say, is worth a thousand words. And i'd tend to think that Obama has a much better contingent of supporters who are more broad minded than the narrow minded racist supporters that rally behind John McCain. It's not just McCain that scares me about his policies of basically saying that there's no end in sight for the war; it's the fact that he'll empower the wrong ideals of people that make me think that, had that been a photo of McCain standing down on that podium below those thousands of supporters, that i'd be thinking that the US is a scarier place than I initially thought it was with every second yahoo owning a gun. Basically, it would be like watching a movie where the bad guy wins, and that's never fun when it's real life.

Photos like this are evidence that the US is on the right track. Truth be told, the wind was taken out of my sails for caring for US politics after Bush got re-elected. There were alot of bands and people rallying to get Bush out of office (how much bigger a statement could you get than Neil Young's "Let's Impeach The President"?) and they got the wind knocked out of their sails too, when they realized how powerless that they were against the big corporations and major hitters in the American economy basically ensuring that Bush got in for a second term.

I'm still guessing that the big capitalist regime doesn't want Obama in there, because it means more equality for everyone. And the big economy that benefits only those at the top have never liked a democracy.

The pictures don't lie. If Obama doesn't win this one, i've lost all faith in the US' system, right down to who supposedly won the vote.
Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: PookyNMR on October 18, 2008, 03:38:43 pm
RSettee wrote on Sat, 18 October 2008 12:44

Photos like this are evidence that the US is on the right track.


No.  It's just that there are plenty of folks who are choosing the lesser of two evils.
Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: RSettee on October 18, 2008, 04:11:13 pm
PookyNMR wrote on Sat, 18 October 2008 14:38

RSettee wrote on Sat, 18 October 2008 12:44

Photos like this are evidence that the US is on the right track.


No.  It's just that there are plenty of folks who are choosing the lesser of two evils.


To me, a win is a win, however you slice it. A backhanded compliment vote to keep another person out is still a vote in the right direction. I don't doubt that there's equally, if not better qualified non-running candidates. I also don't doubt that there's some that are reluctantly voting for Obama--hence the racist people who are actually going to vote for him because they believe he has the best policies, and Republican supporters voting for him just because the Republican party has turned into a shambles.

But i'd like to know who you think would do a better job, if this were as they say a "ideal scenario". It could be that Obama looks so good, just because McCain (especially, moreso, Palin) look that bad. I wish that we had more of a choice--in any election, more choices are better for the public--but I do really like Obama, and think that he'd look great against any other choices. He seems more proactive than reactive....McCain/ Palin's slant has largely been reactive, they're on the defensive--and rightly so, after the Republicans' dismantlement of the American economy and trust--but I still don't like what they've had to say. If you could sum up McCain/ Palin's main ideals and cut through the yadda yadda, you'd hear this, ultimately:

"well folks, we're running for 4 more years of the same!" (add Palin's lilting "mom gone mad 'wake up, it's time for school!' " upper register shriek to rally the unconverted).
Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: John Ivan on October 18, 2008, 04:18:49 pm
PookyNMR wrote on Sat, 18 October 2008 15:38

RSettee wrote on Sat, 18 October 2008 12:44

Photos like this are evidence that the US is on the right track.


No.  It's just that there are plenty of folks who are choosing the lesser of two evils.



I happen to disagree with this very strongly. I think we lucked out. I think this Barack cat is an above average person who will prove to be the best choice out of everyone who ran this year from all parties..

There's something in this guy that we just don't see very often..

My 2 cents.

Ivan.................
Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: Barry Hufker on October 18, 2008, 04:34:42 pm
I've said before Barak Obama is not progressive enough for me.  But I do believe he is the most intelligent politician, in a very long time, we've had running for president, who can actually win.

He is certainly not the lesser of two evils.  John McCain is two evils and Obama at worst is a positive.  While I wish things were different, Obama could be a very great president and could stand up there with Washington, Lincoln...

Missouri: It seems to me Missouri has always been a divided state between North and South.  In the Civil War it was especially true.  But I do remember at time (as a kid) when Missouri was thought of as a Democratic state.  But that was before Civil Rights...

Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: MDM, on October 18, 2008, 05:36:12 pm
barry, intelligence is not beneficial for a politician, necessarily.. Very Happy

being stong-willed pragmatic and uncorruptable to me are more productive traits.

intelligence and charm are good qualities, but when you look at what's missing in politics, it's not technical ability..
Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: John Ivan on October 18, 2008, 05:42:33 pm
MDM, wrote on Sat, 18 October 2008 17:36

barry, intelligence is not beneficial for a politician, necessarily.. Very Happy

being stong-willed pragmatic and uncorruptable to me are more productive traits.

intelligence and charm are good qualities, but when you look at what's missing in politics, it's not technical ability..


I know this isn't addressed to me but,,

I'll leave my pet definition of "intelligence" out of it for the moment and simply say that I believe Obama to be the least corruptible politician we've seen in quite some time. This has to do with where he came from and how he got where he is..

It's a huge accomplishment by any measure and I think he understands his own good fortune, and is only hopeful that others get to achieve what he has, in their own way..

I hope I'm right.

Ivan..............
Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: Larrchild on October 18, 2008, 05:56:01 pm
MDM, while you do make a point, there is a minimum threshold for IQ that I feel has not been met in many cases in this administration. And this is due to partisan appointments based on faith, and cronyism.
That is very corrosive to the function of govt.
Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: Hallams on October 18, 2008, 06:51:42 pm
jimlongo wrote on Sun, 19 October 2008 05:07

A crowd of 100,00 (police estimate) turned out to hear Obama in St Louis today, Kansas City tonight.

  http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/10/obam a_draws_record_crowd_in_st.html

  http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/100000_people.ht ml?showall


index.php/fa/10193/0/


You would need a good PA system to cover that crowd!
Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: grantis on October 18, 2008, 06:54:16 pm
Hallams wrote on Sat, 18 October 2008 17:51

jimlongo wrote on Sun, 19 October 2008 05:07

A crowd of 100,00 (police estimate) turned out to hear Obama in St Louis today, Kansas City tonight.

   http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/10/obam a_draws_record_crowd_in_st.html

   http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/100000_people.ht ml?showall


index.php/fa/10193/0/


You would need a good PA system to cover that crowd!


Or a long series of people who have great memory and can yell really loud.
Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: Barry Hufker on October 18, 2008, 07:00:51 pm
Hallams wrote on Sat, 18 October 2008 17:51

jimlongo wrote on Sun, 19 October 2008 05:07

A crowd of 100,00 (police estimate) turned out to hear Obama in St Louis today, Kansas City tonight.


index.php/fa/10193/0/


You would need a good PA system to cover that crowd!




Or a really big tarp.


Intelligence is truly something you don't see very often in politics.  But Obama is not going to want to prosecute Bush and Company.  He is not going to prosecute War Profiteers.

He will initiate and pass important legislation, but he's going to slide on crimes against the people - and if I'm right about that, I won't forgive him for it.

Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: brian harrison on October 18, 2008, 07:55:34 pm
I'm totally with Barry on this. as big of a drag as it is to see the day to day activities of the government brought to a crawl so that we can see real justice happen. bush and crew really fit the definition of war criminals and all the spineless pussies that voted for him should twist on satan's rotisserie for eternity. pride cometh before a fall and there isn't an ounce of shame from anyone that ive met or known personally that voted  for these satanic cock gargling assholes. i used to think they were just misinformed but now i know that they are just idiots and that is being unkind to the average run of the mill village idiot. oh well viva la revolution and we are about 8 years late getting started.
peace, love, off with their heads.
brian
Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: RSettee on October 18, 2008, 11:42:16 pm
brian harrison wrote on Sat, 18 October 2008 18:55

I'm totally with Barry on this. as big of a drag as it is to see the day to day activities of the government brought to a crawl so that we can see real justice happen. bush and crew really fit the definition of war criminals and all the spineless pussies that voted for him should twist on satan's rotisserie for eternity. pride cometh before a fall and there isn't an ounce of shame from anyone that ive met or known personally that voted  for these satanic cock gargling assholes. i used to think they were just misinformed but now i know that they are just idiots and that is being unkind to the average run of the mill village idiot. oh well viva la revolution and we are about 8 years late getting started.
peace, love, off with their heads.
brian


Well, so much for those Bush's not being allied with the enemy!

       http://prisonplanet.com/search-result.html?cx=00718409399967        0235891%3A0_8izx-_bou&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=UTF-8&q=p rescott+bush&sa=Search#1154

   http://prisonplanet.com/articles/november2007/291107_fascist _coup.htm

Prescott Bush was all but brought to trial for it. Hey, the best way to swing the laws your way is to change them or control the legal system, right?

Quote:

The author added that laws such as the Military Commissions Act of 2006 were consciously designed to protect current President Bush and his co-conspirators from being indicted for war crimes, harking back to Prescott Bush's history.

"The family history is that you can make so much money uniting corporate interests with a fascist state that violently represses people, that's why when I saw the recycling of so much Nazi language, Nazi tactics, Nazi strategies, Nazi imagery in the Bush White House and then finally belatedly people brought to me this history of Prescott Bush's attempted coup and Smedley Butler's revelations - it gives me absolute chills," said Wolf.
Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: jimlongo on October 19, 2008, 12:20:39 pm
Barry Hufker wrote on Sat, 18 October 2008 19:00


Intelligence is truly something you don't see very often in politics.  But Obama is not going to want to prosecute Bush and Company.  He is not going to prosecute War Profiteers.

He will initiate and pass important legislation, but he's going to slide on crimes against the people - and if I'm right about that, I won't forgive him for it.



I don't agree with the opinion that the democrats should seek revenge against Bush and Co.  I feel this would divide the country even more than it is, and won't get us anywhere in trying to solve the many problems we face.  I also hope that the republicans in the coming years don't concentrate on re-igniting the culture wars of the 90's.  

We need reform and change, not continual bickering.  Bush will be judged by history.  

War profiteering on the other hand should be prosecuted, but the underlying problem is political donations and connections and that's where it gets tricky.  It shouldn't be turned into a political attack.
Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: jimlongo on October 19, 2008, 12:40:26 pm
Flickr slideshow of St Louis rally

Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: Barry Hufker on October 19, 2008, 12:53:08 pm
Jim,

Prosecuting Bush and Co. is not about revenge.  It is about the Constitution, the separation of powers and preserving the country.  You can not let Bush, Cheney, et al. commit crimes against the Constitution and go unpunished without setting a precedent allowing those crimes in the future.  The next president who decides to be as abusive as Bush will use the argument that those powers existed previously and will push the abuse even further - that's only human nature.  The time to push things back into proper balance is now, should Obama become president.  That's why I won't forgive him if he doesn't.  He and his administration will have condoned such behavior.

Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: jimlongo on October 19, 2008, 01:01:49 pm
Barry Hufker wrote on Sun, 19 October 2008 12:53

Jim,
Prosecuting Bush and Co. is not about revenge.  It is about the Constitution, the separation of powers and preserving the country.  You can not let Bush, Cheney, et al. commit crimes against the Constitution and go unpunished without setting a precedent allowing those crimes in the future.  The next president who decides to be as abusive as Bush will use the argument that those powers existed previously and will push the abuse even further - that's only human nature.  The time to push things back into proper balance is now, should Obama become president.  That's why I won't forgive him if he doesn't.  He and his administration will have condoned such behavior.



I just think that introducing laws to limit those excesses would be better pushback than prosecuting crimes which would be seen as overtly political.

Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: Jessica A. Engle on October 19, 2008, 01:30:32 pm
jimlongo wrote on Sun, 19 October 2008 12:01

Barry Hufker wrote on Sun, 19 October 2008 12:53

Jim,
Prosecuting Bush and Co. is not about revenge.  It is about the Constitution, the separation of powers and preserving the country.  You can not let Bush, Cheney, et al. commit crimes against the Constitution and go unpunished without setting a precedent allowing those crimes in the future.  The next president who decides to be as abusive as Bush will use the argument that those powers existed previously and will push the abuse even further - that's only human nature.  The time to push things back into proper balance is now, should Obama become president.  That's why I won't forgive him if he doesn't.  He and his administration will have condoned such behavior.



I just think that introducing laws to limit those excesses would be better pushback than prosecuting crimes which would be seen as overtly political.




I wouldn't see them that way.  But I can only speak for me.

Even if the general population (or whoever) sees it as political revenge, that doesn't really matter.  

Let them believe what they will.  It won't change the fact that damage was done and it should be addressed before it's too late.  The object here is not to change the mind of average Joe/Jane, it's to protect the constitution, like Barry said.  That's too important to ignore because it might appear to be political.  

Truth will out.



Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: Jay Kadis on October 19, 2008, 01:31:33 pm
I would cut Bush et. al. as much slack as the Feds are cutting medical marijuana users.  (i.e. none)  Crimes must be addressed or there's no reason to have laws.  That's their own mantra.
Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: Barry Hufker on October 19, 2008, 11:59:18 pm
Jim,

There are already such laws, that's why I want them arrested.

NO ONE is above the law.  And there is great reason to believe many in the Bush Administration, including the President and Vice-President are guilty of many things, including treason.

You don't sweep that under the rug just because it isn't convenient.

Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: jimlongo on October 20, 2008, 10:33:38 am
Barry Hufker wrote on Sun, 19 October 2008 23:59

Jim,

There are already such laws, that's why I want them arrested.

NO ONE is above the law.  And there is great reason to believe many in the Bush Administration, including the President and Vice-President are guilty of many things, including treason.

You don't sweep that under the rug just because it isn't convenient.




Barry, that's all fine with me, just don't see why it should be the Obama administration to do it.  What about a federal prosecutor, or congressional investigation.  Maybe some high profile Senator could start it.
Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: Barry Hufker on October 20, 2008, 12:13:49 pm
An Obama Administration is indeed the next one in power (Lord willing).  The move towards impeachment (which can happen after one is out of office as "impeachment" means "calling into question" as well as "a crime against the state")actually starts in the House of Representatives.  But for complete success in this case, this effort will also need the Senate and the President's blessing or else it will be sidetracked.  And yes, it would be the Department of Justice which would investigate.  That's why currently there is no investigation into all sorts of Republican crimes.

Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: justpushplay on October 20, 2008, 03:01:09 pm
Barry Hufker wrote on Sat, 18 October 2008 13:17

Being from STL, I'd like to think we're representative of the rest of the state - but we're not.  Get outside the cities and it is a different country.  Obama needs Missouri's small towns.  He already has the cities.




I agree with Barry 100%. There are local forums here, and they all have stuff like the image below as their avatars.

If you really want to get into their heads, go here:

http://www.hwy-13.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=10&sid=2cc3a 31776a5b342eff0570450f40233
index.php/fa/10204/0/

However, I have seen Obama signs popping up in places, so there may be hope. Missouri passed stem cell research in 2006, so anything is possible. Keep your fingers crossed.....
Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: Barry Hufker on October 20, 2008, 04:08:04 pm
I read about 20 postings at your link and then I had to quit.  There's a lot of ignorance and the twisted there.  Very scary.

Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: Larrchild on October 20, 2008, 04:18:20 pm
index.php/fa/10206/0/
Some people misunderstand the term "Jeffersonian Democracy"
Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: justpushplay on October 20, 2008, 04:29:33 pm
Barry Hufker wrote on Mon, 20 October 2008 15:08

I read about 20 postings at your link and then I had to quit.  There's a lot of ignorance and the twisted there.  Very scary.




I haven't been there in quite some time, as it makes my head spin. Some of those people are local business owners, and when I drive by their businesses, I just feel sad. If none of you hear from me after the election...........


PS: Yet more avatars from these people:


index.php/fa/10207/0/
Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: Larrchild on October 20, 2008, 04:42:07 pm
The perverse question is, how much financial hardship and loss of their sons and daughters will it take for these 4-bit processors to understand that they are feeding the hand that bites them?

What exactly does it take?

I appreciate the dogmatic persistence, but it's past the point of looking stupid.

Really.
Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: Jay Kadis on October 20, 2008, 04:49:38 pm
Larrchild wrote on Mon, 20 October 2008 13:42



What exactly does it take?


Perhaps the kind of tour Mr. Scrooge got?
Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: justpushplay on October 20, 2008, 04:56:26 pm
Larrchild wrote on Mon, 20 October 2008 15:42

The perverse question is, how much financial hardship and loss of their sons and daughters will it take for these 4-bit processors to understand that they are feeding the hand that bites them?




I am truly loving your 'low bit rate' description. I've used the 'low information voter' thing incessantly when trying to describe the current electorate. '4 bit processors' indeed. Thanks for the giggle.
Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: Larrchild on October 20, 2008, 04:57:19 pm
Doesn't leave much for error-correction, does it?
Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: justpushplay on October 20, 2008, 05:02:55 pm
Larrchild wrote on Mon, 20 October 2008 15:57

Doesn't leave much for error-correction, does it?


Stop it! You're hurting me!! Smile


Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: John Ivan on October 20, 2008, 05:14:35 pm
Larry, I know I've mentioned this before, but you certainly have a way with words. Thankfully, there are some 32 bit float cats out there..  Very Happy

About the potential prosecution of the President and/or Vice President and their Mob of nut jobs who almost did us in as a nation. {sigh}..

I admit I'm on the fence.. I want them to be held accountable. I really do.. But this would need to take place with the seriosness and calmness that Obama brings to the table, but HE would not be the guy turning the key on this thing. In other words, the only thing that should ever be said about it should directly relate to the Law of the land, and NOT to any partisan points being made.

If we can find agreement with some serious republicans in the House to move this forward, it would be very helpful. I believe there are republicans in both the House and Senate who understand the implications of allowing these crimes to be swept under the rug. There is either bipartisan agreement that Law and Order matters, or there is not. Barry and others make the relevant point that doing nothing leaves an open door the size of an aircraft hanger exit through which a later President could push lawlessness to a whole new level. This is a frightening thing to consider. One would think that alarm bells would be sounding in the minds of Liberals and Conservative alike, given that we are now discovering what a refusal to "look Down The Road" has done to the nation. We are dearly paying for our own lack of foresight and I hope we've learned something.

Smart people from both sides of the political prison yard must agree to do the right thing, or we risk it blowing up in our face..

The world isn't always fair..

Ivan......................
Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: Larrchild on October 20, 2008, 05:32:28 pm
I had the Tektronix Logic Analyzer nearby, so I connected up to the TV output and set it to Fox News for a few minutes.
The resulting "untruth table" represents 4x4=16 possible output states when using the 4 available bits.
Here they are:
index.php/fa/10208/0/
Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: justpushplay on October 20, 2008, 06:05:46 pm
John Ivan wrote on Mon, 20 October 2008 16:14


I admit I'm on the fence.. I want them to be held accountable. I really do.. But this would need to take place with the seriosness and calmness that Obama brings to the table, but HE would not be the guy turning the key on this thing. In other words, the only thing that should ever be said about it should directly relate to the Law of the land, and NOT to any partisan points being made.

If we can find agreement with some serious republicans in the House to move this forward, it would be very helpful. I believe there are republicans in both the House and Senate who understand the implications of allowing these crimes to be swept under the rug. There is either bipartisan agreement that Law and Order matters, or there is not.


If there is anything the US could do to repair the harm we have done to our national psyche, and to our 'brand' on the international stage, this would be it. Short of leading the world out of the global financial mess in a few days, the best thing we could do, or have ever done, is lead by example. Prosecuting those, both in industry and government, that attempted to circumvent our laws for political and monetary gain might allow us to argue that, although we lost our collective moral and legal compass for eight dark years, we have now regained our  grip on reality. How we 'turn the key' on that will probably be Chapter One in any political history book written thereafter. One shudders at the machinations that will go on behind the scenes on that one.
Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: RSettee on October 20, 2008, 06:48:35 pm
Barry Hufker wrote on Mon, 20 October 2008 11:13

An Obama Administration is indeed the next one in power (Lord willing).  The move towards impeachment (which can happen after one is out of office as "impeachment" means "calling into question" as well as "a crime against the state")actually starts in the House of Representatives.  But for complete success in this case, this effort will also need the Senate and the President's blessing or else it will be sidetracked.  And yes, it would be the Department of Justice which would investigate.  That's why currently there is no investigation into all sorts of Republican crimes.



Yup. They never rat out one of their own. It's like a crooked police officer--in the ranks' eyes, he's a police officer first and foremost, that's why guys like that get away with it. When you're involved with the legal system or the governing system, there's a whole bunch of people that have your back. And those people all are in power or in governing power. It would otherwise take a personal justice campaign to overthrow them or hold them for treason, but the thing is--we elect people and we hire police officers to protect and uphold the law.

As in back in the old Wild West days, it used to be that you hired the most bad ass crook to police the state. Look at the Wyatt Earp story. As to whether those guys truly want to go the straight and narrow.....some of them have realized that they have a much easier time of bending the laws when they're ABOVE the law. Then you're back at square one--you're being governed or policed by those that take liberties with liberty.
Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: Barry Hufker on October 21, 2008, 12:34:28 am
It never made news here, but Rumsfeld was almost arrested in France for war crimes.  A group from the U.S. and France demanded he be arrested and France has a law that all such reports must be taken seriously.  Rumsfeld was at a political breakfast when someone tipped him off.  He and his Secret Service agents abruptly left the meeting and flew to Germany where they have no such law.

Rats...

Kucinich and Wexler will keep pushing the impeachment agenda.  I've been financially supporting Cindy Sheehan in her run against Nancy Pelosi.  If you recall it is Pelosi who took impeachment "off the table".  I'm not sure Cindy will win, but Pelosi is certainly concerned...

Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: Jay Kadis on October 21, 2008, 10:38:58 am
Barry Hufker wrote on Mon, 20 October 2008 21:34



Kucinich and Wexler will keep pushing the impeachment agenda.  I've been financially supporting Cindy Sheehan in her run against Nancy Pelosi.  If you recall it is Pelosi who took impeachment "off the table".  I'm not sure Cindy will win, but Pelosi is certainly concerned...


Sheehan is just the left-wing version of Sarah Palin.  While I happen to agree with her politics, she's not really equipped to represent California, let alone lead the party.  I wouldn't count Pelosi out: she seems to have political acumen we may not fully appreciate at the moment.  I'd give her the benefit of the doubt at least: she has far more political experience than Sheehan.

Now, Diane Feinstein I would happily replace.
Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: Barry Hufker on October 21, 2008, 11:27:13 am
Feinstein, yes.  Get her out.  And I worked to make that happen, although it didn't.  I'll grant Sheehan is far less experienced but Pelosi is unwilling.  Even if Sheehan doesn't win, Pelosi will get the message people want a different direction.  I think that's a message she's gotten already through Sheehan's campaign.

The Democratic Party is one big fucking mess and it is time for them to get organized.  If they should be fortunate enough to gain control of the government, they better know what to do with it.  And I mean that in "all ways" not just impeachment.

Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: Jay Kadis on October 21, 2008, 11:39:19 am
It would seem the time to proceed with impeachment is after the Democrats take control of the Legislature and the Executive branch, not during the contentious battle to do so.  Hopefully that's what Pelosi is thinking even if she isn't saying it.
Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: Barry Hufker on October 21, 2008, 02:56:30 pm
Maybe...

Certainly not during the election season but there was time before that.  And maybe there'll be a good time after it...

Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: John Ivan on October 21, 2008, 03:20:29 pm
While I can see why people are very upset that Impeachment hasn't moved forward, and this includes me, it occurs to me that even the very smartest among us {certainly NOT me}can't really have a grasp on the dynamic in Congress and Washington unless we are there..I believe Pelosi would LOVE to impeach these morons. There really was and in fact IS a Presidential season upon us, and I think waiting was the right choice ,{well,  If that's what they're doing..} We need every ounce of attention paid to winning this thing.

I too think Cindys' "Impeach them right now!" attitude might indicate that she isn't ready for prime time. I love her, and agree with many of her points of view but that doesn't mean I think she can govern inside the machine..This matters a lot. As pointed out, a bunch of Right wingers loved Palin too, and then she went off about how she can see Russia from her house.. There is a certain knowledge one must have to work inside the beast. In fact, I think the only way to change it is to vote for people who know it really well, AND want it changed.. Just wanting it changed might not be enough.

Hey, I am in no way saying that I think Palin is smarter or as smart as Cindy.. She isn't..I'm back to my pet definition of intelegence agian, and Palin aint got it..

Ivan..........................
Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: Barry Hufker on October 21, 2008, 04:47:32 pm
I get what you're saying.  You make a good point.


Title: Re: 100,000 in St Louis
Post by: Andy Peters on October 21, 2008, 11:54:45 pm
Hallams wrote on Sat, 18 October 2008 15:51

jimlongo wrote on Sun, 19 October 2008 05:07

A crowd of 100,00 (police estimate) turned out to hear Obama in St Louis today, Kansas City tonight.

   http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/10/obam a_draws_record_crowd_in_st.html

   http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/100000_people.ht ml?showall


index.php/fa/10193/0/


You would need a good PA system to cover that crowd!


Discussed over on the live side of this website!

-a