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R/E/P => R/E/P Archives => R/E/P Saloon => Topic started by: grantis on September 04, 2008, 08:33:48 pm

Title: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 04, 2008, 08:33:48 pm
Deal with it.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: John Ivan on September 04, 2008, 08:42:57 pm
Oh I can deal with it.. I see you are wearing a helmet in your avatar. Razz

Make sure that stays on when you go to bed, Pumpkin..

Ivan...................
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: PRobb on September 04, 2008, 09:06:06 pm
Why?
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: John Ivan on September 04, 2008, 09:21:50 pm
PRobb wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 21:06

Why?



Oh yeah, I almost forgot to ask.. PRobb has the question right.. Why? indeed.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Barry Hufker on September 04, 2008, 09:38:38 pm
I encourage everyone to vote.

I encourage everyone to vote for whom they think best.

If you believe Mr. McCain is the best person then vote for him.

I hope you have really done your homework and have studied in-depth the policies of both candidates.  Having done that, have at it.

I have no problem with how you vote and certainly have no problem "dealing with it".

Now, deal with that!

Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: angel on September 04, 2008, 10:16:32 pm
There's a vote coming up?
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Berolzheimer on September 04, 2008, 10:29:24 pm
Are you also volunteering to go fight in Iraq?


Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Berolzheimer on September 04, 2008, 10:31:32 pm
I suggest you sit down with a cup of coffee & watch some video.

Here ya go:

http://therealmccain.com/


Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: maxim on September 04, 2008, 10:32:35 pm
just because you're misguided doesn't make you evil

deal with it...
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Barry Hufker on September 04, 2008, 11:15:35 pm
Max,

How you've stated it is how I feel about it.

I think the Republican leadership is evil but the average Republican voter isn't.  I believe the average Republican is a person who is easily duped.  Things are black and white for them and so their choice is easy.

Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: danickstr on September 04, 2008, 11:18:09 pm
The coasts will vote Democrat.  That is where the ecjumacated people live.  The part in the middle will tend to vote for the most "God-feerin" candidate.  Who will use them as tools to line his cronies' pockets.

Keep voting your way, that is what makes America great.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: John Ivan on September 04, 2008, 11:24:41 pm
I think we will be surprised about how much the electoral map changes. If Obama can show the American people how he will clean banking up, change the face of corporate America and engage in a huge effort to find, produce, and use new energy sources, he'll have it.

Also, he needs to hint around about a bipartisan cabinet that should end up being the best foreign policy team in our history.

EDIT: I thought I would ad to this that specifics will be a good thing this time around. He need's to be careful about "Promising" this or that but when he says he has a plan, we need to know what it is in real detail.

Ivan.........................

Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: mikeconrad on September 04, 2008, 11:25:48 pm
Lyrics to a song I wrote about 4 years ago.
This seems like the right place to air them out.

please pull your head out of your ass and look around
i'll try to tell you what you missed
some things you used to take for granted disappeared
and now we're heading off a cliff

cause you gave up your individuality
and started lying to yourself
and now you live in some made up reality
where day is night and you can't tell

you were so easily manipulated into
someone you dont want to be
trained to perpetuate verbatim anti-news
between distractions on tv

so turn the television off and try to think --all by yourself
if you still can
find some originality --and let it grow
and maybe then you'll understand

dont want to hear some infantile douchebaggery  
I hope you don't try to explain
look into intelectual validity
and save us all a lot of pain

you can't even see the truth
when it comes up and fuckin licks you in the face
instead you'll rearange the meaning till it fits
something thats easy to embrace

please don't.. please don't... be such a douchebag
Why you wanna be a douchebag?

Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 04, 2008, 11:31:25 pm
danickstr wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 22:18

The coasts will vote Democrat.  That is where the ecjumacated people live.  The part in the middle will tend to vote for the most "God-feerin" candidate.  


So either a person is saved, or educated, but not both?
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: J.J. Blair on September 04, 2008, 11:48:05 pm
Depends.  Do you think that evolution is just a theory?  Do you think the world is 6,000 years old?
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: C.O. Jones on September 04, 2008, 11:52:35 pm
grant richard wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 22:31

danickstr wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 22:18

The coasts will vote Democrat.  That is where the ecjumacated people live.  The part in the middle will tend to vote for the most "God-feerin" candidate.  


So either a person is saved, or educated, but not both?



I think you can be both "saved" and "educated".


Just as some may be simultaneously anti-"douchebaggery" and "intelectual".

Jones
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: C.O. Jones on September 04, 2008, 11:55:44 pm
J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 22:48

 Do you think that evolution is just a theory?  Do you think the world is 6,000 years old?



Science explains how.  Religion helps us understand why.

Jones
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Larrchild on September 05, 2008, 12:04:34 am
Yeah, "Who" is always where the killing starts.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: John Ivan on September 05, 2008, 12:15:39 am
Yep. And "where" has us in a lot of deep shit too..

Ivan........................
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 05, 2008, 12:17:34 am
C.O. Jones wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 22:52

grant richard wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 22:31

danickstr wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 22:18

The coasts will vote Democrat.  That is where the ecjumacated people live.  The part in the middle will tend to vote for the most "God-feerin" candidate.  


So either a person is saved, or educated, but not both?



I think you can be both "saved" and "educated".


Just as some may be simultaneously anti-"douchebaggery" and "intelectual".

Jones



Laughing
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: PRobb on September 05, 2008, 12:20:08 am
The question stands.

Why?
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 05, 2008, 12:20:46 am
J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 22:48

Depends.  Do you think that evolution is just a theory?  Do you think the world is 6,000 years old?



Yes, No
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: mgod on September 05, 2008, 12:24:43 am
I guess that's your answer, PRobb, squarely in the who-gives-a-shit canister. Nothing to deal with here. Next.

DS
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 05, 2008, 12:28:06 am
"War is bad, now give me a hand-out!!"

Guys, I started this thread out of sheer curiosity to see who would reply negatively.

I figured since nobody in the saloon talks about anything BUT politics, I'd get an idea where some folks REALLY stand.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: organica on September 05, 2008, 12:29:04 am
Leaning toward Palin here , but won't have a decision for weeks . She has a number of hoops to jump through quickly .  As usual , it's a character/integrity over  party line , religion or educational  issue  for me .  She may  set an inspiring new standard among young fresh politicians regardless of their "core beliefs" ( pipe dream maybe ) . Too early to tell .

Ron Paul is 73 years old . IF ....... Palin shines brightly in the following weeks then I hope he gets a shot on her cabinet in 4 , 8 or 12 years .

McCain's speech tonight was more together than Obama's last week , but if BO would have gone 2nd maybe it would have gone the other way ? The ideas expressed from both teams aren't horrible and neither side will get a huge amount done during their term/'s . I don't think they usualy do . Character rules .


Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: mgod on September 05, 2008, 12:29:15 am
grant richard wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 21:28

"War is bad, now give me a hand-out!!"

Guys, I started this thread out of sheer curiosity to see who would reply negatively.

I figured since nobody in the saloon talks about anything BUT politics, I'd get an idea where some folks REALLY stand.

And no one knows yet where you really stand. You wanna talk about something else, talk about it. Seems like you started it just to be a little dick, so maybe it should be deleted.

DS
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: jimlongo on September 05, 2008, 12:29:50 am
I'm still interested in hearing why?  
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 05, 2008, 12:33:09 am
I stand on my faith.

Obama is pro-choice, not something I'm willing to vote for.

McCain is a mistress groping SOB, not something I'm willing to vote for either.

I have yet to make up my mind on which man I'd rather have leading the ***currently*** most powerful nation in the world.

I think the best way for me to decide to to look past the negatives on both sides and determine which positives I'd most agree with.  To be continued.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: jimlongo on September 05, 2008, 12:34:47 am
Sounds like you should just sit it out.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 05, 2008, 12:34:54 am
jimlongo wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 23:29

I'm still interested in hearing why?  

See my post about why I started the thread.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 05, 2008, 12:36:03 am
jimlongo wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 23:34

Sounds like you should just sit it out.


Uh-oh, bring on the political activists.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Barry Hufker on September 05, 2008, 12:40:37 am
I am saved and educated.  I wouldn't ever in this election vote anything else but Democrat.

Palin isn't a fresh anything.  She's a dyed-in-the-wool Republican't.  The Republicans are 25 years too late in having a woman in a presidential election.  That in itself shows how lame they are.  She isn't fresh, she's a cynical political choice.  I can go on with this part of the explanation but why.  If you can't see it, you probably never will.

If you think this election is about "personality" or "character" instead of issues then you've fooled yourself.  But if you want to go that route, McCain has 150 special interest lobbyists running his campaign.  These include his chief strategist.

It amazes me that people think Republicans are for the "middle class" or for them in any fashion.  John McCain thinks the middle class is anyone who makes under 5 million a year.  What a joke that is.  Middle class income is considered to be between $35k and $75k a year!!!



Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: mgod on September 05, 2008, 12:41:37 am
And hey, speaking of handouts, I've paid higher and more taxes under these douchebags than ever before. Shall we look at where that money did and didn't go?

Handouts. Bullshit. Kneejerk half-witted thinking, most likely inherited and accepted without any real thought. Or would you care to boast about arriving at such a dumbass conclusion all by your self?

Yes war is bad, and especially bad when the purpose of the war is more handouts to bullshit companies that produce nothing useful, money from my pocket to theirs. And lots of it. Would I rather feed someone than kill them with my bucks? You bet.

Its this kind of crap that rightly gets one political party, the one having its not-one-useful-word-yet-spoken convention right now, labeled the party of assholes. It is. You want negative? You got it, aimed square at you. John McCain I like, when he's not drugged like now. But you?

You want more years of this crap? You want more handouts to Halliburton and Blackwater? From your pocket, not mine. These leeches on society have taken enough of my daughter's inheritance. Talk about a death tax...

DS

Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: mgod on September 05, 2008, 12:47:00 am
grant richard wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 21:33

I stand on my faith.

Obama is pro-choice, not something I'm willing to vote for.

Then its probably a safe bet your faith also requires you to take care of the poor and treat your enemy as your brother. Given some of your other statements, you don't sound very saved, you sound like a pick and choose faithful guy, who goes for what suits what he already finds convenient and doesn't bother with the stuff that's a challenge. Handouts are required for salvation.

DS
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Barry Hufker on September 05, 2008, 12:52:15 am
I have no desire to go through all the reasons why McCain is an amoral, cynical hack.  If you think single-issue voting is going to get you what you want (illegal abortion) then have at it.

If you want to talk serious politics then I'll do that.  But brickwall "anti-abortion" "Pro-life" crap is not worth writing about one more time.  You buy the lie that illegal abortion is an answer to a problem better solved in much more moral, compassionate and Christian methods.  

Being pro-life means being for ALL the living.  Republicans aren't.  That's it plainly and simply.

I said my best answer in my first post.

I'm through with this thread.  Good luck with casting your vote Grant.  

Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 05, 2008, 12:56:32 am
mgod wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 23:47

 Handouts are required for salvation.

DS


You have a distorted view of salvation.

Faith is required for salvation. Period.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 05, 2008, 12:59:13 am
Ya know, I might regret this in about...2 replies...but I have to ask.

At what point do democrats become "the man"?
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: organica on September 05, 2008, 01:05:28 am
Barry Hufker wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 00:40

....

Palin isn't a fresh anything.  She's a dyed-in-the-wool Republican't.  ......





I can see your point . She may also be an anomaly . Unlikely perhaps , but it's too early to tell .

btw- How many special interest lobbyists are involed in Obama's campaign ?


  http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/08/09/pacs_a nd_lobbyists_aided_obamas_rise/


  http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/01/07/sc_obama _backer_is_also_a_lobb_1.html

You may not think that character matters . But I believe that it does .
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 05, 2008, 01:08:35 am
groundhog wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 00:05

....

You may not think that character matters . But I believe that it does .


Sweet.  I'm not alone in the forum.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: John Ivan on September 05, 2008, 01:26:39 am
grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 00:28

"War is bad, now give me a hand-out!!"

Guys, I started this thread out of sheer curiosity to see who would reply negatively.

I figured since nobody in the saloon talks about anything BUT politics, I'd get an idea where some folks REALLY stand.



A couple things. I don't believe for a moment that you didn't already know where most of us stand on who we are voting for.

Now, the other thing.. If you really believe that the Democratic platform is simply "War is bad, now give me a hand out", then you are a backwards, illiterate dumby..

Look, there is NOT ROOM for you in the national debate if you are going to be using this kind of one line republican rove shit. Really. The country is sick of it..

This shallow thinking is THE REASON our kids are coming home in bags, smart guy. You will not slogan your way into the White House this time. Sorry.

"Tax and spend Liberal"- Republicans don't tax? You don't spend? Really?

"You don't love our country"- What, republicans love our country more? Really?

"The Republican party is the party of Family values"- I have a family. We already have a set of values, thank you very much. We do not get our value system from a political party. Maybe you do, but we don't . We are the "DEMOCRATIC PARTY". See?

"You guys don't support our troops" Non sense. More than non sense. It's a lie you people repeat on purpose because you don't want to talk about the fact that Iraq was the biggest mistake we've made, maybe ever {we'll see}.. There are democrats serving and dieing right now! My dad was in the U'S. Air Force.

Where I stand is very firm ground. From a policy stand point the republican party barely exists at all. Bush has vetoed thousands of pages of things he doesn't understand and the guy you are running now can't run a damn cash register. As for deciding when where and how to use force, this white house may have in fact broken the Law.

War is bad. It's a pretty serious thing to most of us, but not all of us, obviously.

EDIT: I thought I would ad that many who cry "Murder" about abortion have no problem sending 18 and 19 year old Americans to bleed to death in a country that had nothing to do with 911. This is just plain sick. You can MOVE INTO a church if you want to, and hold a Bible in your hands for the rest of your life but for those who believe in this whole heaven thing, I doubt you'll be able to get by the big guy with this one. Talk about yer' "Values".. It's some pretty sick shit man.......

There. Ya know where I stand now?

Why did you start this thread again?

Ivan.......................

Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 05, 2008, 01:32:39 am
Thank you for that Ivan.

Anyone else?

EDIT:
(FYI, not including myself, I've counted 11 democrats and 1 republican in this thread so far.  So my question still stands to the democrats.  At what point do democrats become "the man"?)

Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Hallams on September 05, 2008, 02:25:37 am
Interesting stuff here. My take is people can vote for who they like without false assumptions being made as to why the vote that way.  Simplistic and i think most here agree. Debate means airing our views and often this reveals prejudice from "both sides, and I'm prepared to live with that while continuing to speak my mind.
   Pro life is a good concept and needs to be seen in a wider context than the abortion debate. Pro life to me also implies an unwillingness to condone the dropping of bombs on Lebanon and Iraq. Collateral damage.....what a piss poor euphemism for politically sanctioned murder in the name of God, Freedom and Democracy. I have a few pics in my screen saver that come round once in a while  so i don't forget the international war crimes my country was  a co-partner in committing.
 Salvation, another good concept, but a simplistic word i try and avoid in tagging myself as a believer. No offense or criticism meant to those who use the term, just using it to illustrate a perspective....... And that is the first dimension of being a christian to me is a personal response to the life and choices made by an individual 2000 years ago that have become more than a merely moral construct for me. This involves more than the words written in the old and new testament fundamentally, (pun intended ) important as they are. It is a response to the notion of being whole, and responsive to a world that has changed as our enlightenment has grown in the areas of human behavior, science and the existence and spirituality of peoples other than those of a  Judeo- Christian heritage. The awareness of history is a great resource on what not to do in a national and international arena.... check out the Milligram experiments on human behaviour with respect to those in positions of authority and leadership.  Among other things, a handy reference to leadership as employed in many christian organisations. And while i'm at it it's worth mentioning that science can be the new religion!
 Single issue politics is, at its base level a symptom of controll and manipulation.
  Obtaining an overview of a political party or candidate's aproach to a broad range of issues is the only way to make a a response based on your own value system, beliefs, and consience. Freedom upholds the right of every individual to decide based on their own convictions. With freedom comes responsibility, to be informed.
Poorly informed positions are most likely to be a response based on laziness or prejudice or both. Political movements exell in the promotion of prejudice, and intellectual laziness, to their own advantage. As do many religious organizations. May be as a guide, look at the option that least uses such strategies......
mmm...... end of rant.

Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Edvaard on September 05, 2008, 02:28:07 am
Lest we overlook the overlying situation concerning abortion and war ....


You promote life (ostensibly, ideologically), yet you advocate the destruction of  life ...

You profess to be "pro family" whilst happily destroying many thousands of families, in service to your skewed "ideals" (they're Muslims, we're Christians, any questions?)


You want to bring on your abortion pictures? Great. So here's some pictures from war, just to make you happy;

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://depleteduraniu mthechildkiller.com/DUB12.jpg&imgrefurl=http://depletedu raniumthechildkiller.com/&h=297&w=468&sz=18& hl=en&start=1&um=1&usg=__ZHJ1L07BQuIVo0XB_N3Su4U s7yc=&tbnid=9B-r1wQ54XO7gM:&tbnh=81&tbnw=128& ;prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddepleted%2Buranium%2Bpictures%26um%3D1%2 6hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozil la:en-US:official%26sa%3DX

Cute kids, huh?

Thank goodness for American intervention.

So, to go further in the question of rights to abortion or not ...

In reality, this is all about poor, under-privileged teenagers not having enough sense to prevent an unwanted situation.

I am SO glad that, as a male, I never made any bad decisions or took any wrong course, or never took anything in my actions as it might manifest to the future, etc.

I just fucked whoever I could. But if the female in question indulged likewise, "society" now has a say over the outcome of things, but only to HER, not YOU (or me).

Convenient, huh?

Damn right!

Vote Republican, man.

That's what it's all about, making others suffer the responsibility for your own irresponsibility.


Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 05, 2008, 02:36:13 am
Hallams wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 01:25

Poorly informed positions are most likely to be a response based on laziness or prejudice or both.




Or apathy...I'm with ya.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 05, 2008, 02:37:33 am
I find it interesting that nobody has commented on McCain's extra-marital affair.

Any takers?
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: cerberus on September 05, 2008, 02:44:06 am
it doesn't matter that palin loves god if she is a chronic
liar.  "thou shalt not bear false witness": fail!

we now know mccain wanted a pro-choice veep.
but the party wouldn't let him. do you want
that kind of president?
grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 02:37

I find it interesting that nobody has commented on McCain's extra-marital affair.

Any takers?

he is not a fundamentalist. so if he commits adultry
it does not necessarily make him a hypocrite.
i am disturbed by deception, hypocrisy,
lying, graft. but  i would not consider
adultry to be a high crime, like
embezzlement, or starting a
war under false pretenses.

jeff dinces
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 05, 2008, 02:44:44 am
Edvaard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 01:28



That's what it's all about, making others suffer the responsibility for your own irresponsibility.





You say that as if you know me.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Barry Hufker on September 05, 2008, 03:00:04 am
You guys do realize Grant is just baiting you, right?

You're wasting your time here.

I said I was done and with this one I really am.

Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 05, 2008, 03:11:00 am
Barry Hufker wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 02:00

You guys do realize Grant is just baiting you, right?



Call me a liar, but I'm not baiting anybody.

I'm asking legitimate questions as I know little about the candidates except for the two issues I mentioned before.

Come on guys...now's your chance to get another democratic vote.  Make it happen!
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Hallams on September 05, 2008, 03:11:13 am
Barry Hufker wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 17:00

You guys do realize Grant is just baiting you, right?

You're wasting your time here.

I said I was done and with this one I really am.



Yep, that's why i wanted to venture into territory beyond a partizan response in my post above....we have already had our elections, the candidate/party of my choice won, and i feel Australia has changed tack in our journey as a nation....... bit of a change of direction in a healthy way. My hope is the same happens in good old USA.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Edvaard on September 05, 2008, 03:11:55 am

Grant,


No, I don't know you, actually.

But, if you know me at all, that won't stop me.

Ha ha.

Good to know you, in any case.


I'll have you know, I have actually voted for a Republican, once or twice.


I over stated the case, in some ways, but I can't back off of my anti-war stance.



Good to meet you, in any case, Grant.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 05, 2008, 03:16:17 am
Edvaard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 02:11


No, I don't know you, actually.

But, if you know me at all, that won't stop me.

Ha ha.

Good to know you, in any case.


I'll have you know, I have actually voted for a Republican, once or twice.


I over stated the case, in some ways, but I can't back off of my anti-war stance.



Good to meet you, in any case, Grant.


And I certainly respect that.

Good to meet you as well good sir.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: maxim on September 05, 2008, 04:02:58 am
"Just as some may be simultaneously anti-"douchebaggery" and "intelectual""

that's inteRlectual...

faith AND politics?

oh baby!!!




Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Edvaard on September 05, 2008, 06:30:19 am
I don't think that Grant Richards is "baiting" anyone here.

I think that he is only expressing some frustration here.

And if any of the rest of you don't ever feel some frustration in regards to what is thrown at us, I question where your mind is at.

Grant asked of us, "why should I vote Obama", and all anyone can provide as response is to insult the man.

BTW, all the puerile and adolescent jokes about McCain only distracts further from the positive things that Obama is saying.

Just calm down folks, let things go as they will.


As hard as they tried, even Cheney and Rumsfeld didn't bring the country totally down.

We might even be in good enough shape to spend the decades that it will take to bring IraQ back up to speed.




Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Jessica A. Engle on September 05, 2008, 09:19:13 am
grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 00:08

groundhog wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 00:05

....

You may not think that character matters . But I believe that it does .


Sweet.  I'm not alone in the forum.



I'd like to briefly point out that you can't judge someone's character simply because you've seen them on TV.

Even to me, as a self-admitted naive person, claiming that you "know" the character of any candidate out there strikes me as very naive.  

You can make a guess, based on what you're presented with, regarding someone's character.  And you're welcome to act upon (read:vote based on) that guess.  But just keep in mind how much filtering and custom tailoring every word, every claim, every lapel pin and necktie go through before they reach your eyes and ears.  (This goes for both parties, BTW.)

Just because you've seen an actor playing a character in the movies doesn't mean you know their "character".  


Jess
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: ssltech on September 05, 2008, 09:55:25 am
Well none of this has changed my views much...

...I actually LIKE McCain!

http://www.visit4info.com/sitecontent/LG/fullZZZZZZPRW060112202918PIC.jpg

Yep. I like McCain quite a lot!

Don't much care for that devious "faux-hero" sack o' crap who's running for president though.

Keith
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: mgod on September 05, 2008, 10:15:43 am
grant richard wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 21:56

mgod wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 23:47

 Handouts are required for salvation.

DS

You have a distorted view of salvation.

Faith is required for salvation. Period.

And true faith, to be a christian, is also a matter of deeds, not words. And unless one is a true christian, no salvation is offered. Time to get to work.

Someone said: "Salvation, another good concept, but a simplistic word i try and avoid in tagging myself as a believer. No offense or criticism meant to those who use the term, just using it to illustrate a perspective....... And that is the first dimension of being a christian to me is a personal response to the life and choices made by an individual 2000 years ago that have become more than a merely moral construct for me. This involves more than the words written in the old and new testament fundamentally, (pun intended ) important as they are. It is a response to the notion of being whole, and responsive to a world that has changed as our enlightenment has grown in the areas of human behavior, science and the existence and spirituality of peoples other than those of a Judeo- Christian heritage."

Lotta people have decided that since they believe, that's sufficient, and they don't have to do anything that Jesus talked about, like, oh...love. But there's believing and then there's believing. Not much real belief talked about in America these days. And Jesus didn't discuss abortion. But now we have two pro-choice (anti-life) candidates, but one who is pretending to be otherwise for the moment. Doe anyone really think he's changed his stripes for good?

No one to vote for, for the faux-christians. Abortion is not a religious issue, that's a fraud. If abortion is your sole concern, better sit this one out. If McCain wins and dies, I suppose President Palin could spend her whole term in office fighting this lost battle, while our economy burns.

In the meantime say that over to yourself: "President Palin". PTA, mayor, governor of a few people, President.

Why vote for Obama? He's bright, he thinks things through, he's not a knee-jerk anything. He believes we can find a way together, despite single-issue voters. Why not vote McCain? Because he's repudiated everything that made a wide variety of people support him in the past just for this shot at the office, and we can expect him to do more of the same in power. If he wins, he'll back-burner his new anti-abortion position for as long as he's there. He doesn't really care about the issue. Most people don't, and he knows that. The anti-abortionists aren't anyone's constituency. Politicians use it to get votes and then drop it. Its a pointless argument, and we make no progress on the real issue or ever  even approach having a real conversation because of all the noise raised over this red herring, a phony morality masquerading as a moral issue.

DS
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: mgod on September 05, 2008, 10:24:46 am
grant richard wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 22:32


(FYI, not including myself, I've counted 11 democrats and 1 republican in this thread so far.

You must be a psychic, because very few people have said what they are, they've discussed issues.

I've voted for John McCain in the past, and am very disappointed in him this year. I had great hopes for a real conversation. But that doesn't tell you how I'm registered or how I've voted.

DS
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Jay Kadis on September 05, 2008, 10:48:34 am
C.O. Jones wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 20:55

J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 22:48

 Do you think that evolution is just a theory?  Do you think the world is 6,000 years old?



Science explains how.  Religion helps us understand why.

Jones

Why is a meaningless artificial human construct, as is religion.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Mike O on September 05, 2008, 11:00:18 am
grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 05:56

mgod wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 23:47

 Handouts are required for salvation.

DS


You have a distorted view of salvation.

Faith is required for salvation. Period.


How convenient...
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: C.O. Jones on September 05, 2008, 11:01:45 am
mgod wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 09:15

grant richard wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 21:56

mgod wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 23:47

 Handouts are required for salvation.

DS

You have a distorted view of salvation.

Faith is required for salvation. Period.

And true faith, to be a christian, is also a matter of deeds, not words. And unless one is a true christian, no salvation is offered. Time to get to work.

DS


Time for Barack Obama to get to work too:

excerp

John McCain gave 19 percent of his adjusted gross income to charity, while Barack Obama gave 6 percent.

The choice of charities by John McCain appear to be "color blind" while Barack Obama's gave 25 percent of his donation to the Congressional Black Caucus and one third of his charitable donations to that church in Chicago we all know so well.

Who's the bad example? Look up the facts.


From here:

http://www.mcall.com/news/opinion/letters/all-becker.6548874 aug18,0,1794872.story


I don't have the numbers handy, but the amount of money given annually in charity by Faith based groups is truly stupefying.   Christ did not ask anyone to codify charity into political doctrine and have it run by The State either.  He was in fact rather anti-State from what I've read.

This is my problem with the State-run approach to charity:  Bureaucrats that run programs always become entrenched, eventually caring more about self-preservation than anything else, and consume way too much of the assets.

That, and you really can't get people out of situations that caused their poverty in the first place unless you couple the largess with programs that help people break destructive habits.  Government just isn't very good at that.


I see a lot of people who have comfortable homes, an automobile or two, a bunch of nice electronic toys, maybe some pricey musical instruments and a cool Harley too, that just want "The Government" i.e. somebody else to pay for their parent's elder-care, their kid's college, and their doctor bills.  I suspect this is not the kind of "charity" that  Christ had in mind.

Jones
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: mgod on September 05, 2008, 11:11:18 am
No facts there at that link, just opinion.

But I don't have a problem with either of these guys or their charitable giving, although if we saw their tax records, my bet is that Mr. And Mrs McCain make waaaaay more then Mr. And Mrs. Obama and have much more to give away and benefit far more from giving it away  at the end of their tax return. Works just like that for me too. But, if you were responding to me, as it seemed you were, I made no mention of government care in the context of faith.

I like that neither of these guy is campaigning on their faith, or if they are, its minimal and about equal.

DS
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Jay Kadis on September 05, 2008, 11:15:37 am
C.O. Jones wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 08:01


This is my problem with the State-run approach to charity:  Bureaucrats that run programs always become entrenched, eventually caring more about self-preservation than anything else, and consume way too much of the assets.

Jones

It's not just the state-run charities that have this problem.  By far most of the non-governmental charities do a relatively poor job of allocating the money as well.  The American Institute of Philanthropy rates charities for efficiency and other relevant characteristics and many mainstream charities do poorly.

http://www.charitywatch.org/
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: C.O. Jones on September 05, 2008, 11:19:09 am
Jay Kadis wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 10:15

C.O. Jones wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 08:01


This is my problem with the State-run approach to charity:  Bureaucrats that run programs always become entrenched, eventually caring more about self-preservation than anything else, and consume way too much of the assets.

Jones

It's not just the state-run charities that have this problem.  By far most of the non-governmental charities do a relatively poor job of allocating the money as well.  The American Institute of Philanthropy rates charities for efficiency and other relevant characteristics and many mainstream charities do poorly.

http://www.charitywatch.org/



You are absolutely correct.  The more distance from those being served, the more mission creep you tend to see.

Jones
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 05, 2008, 11:36:09 am
Still waiting on that answer.

At what point do democrats become "the man"?
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: PRobb on September 05, 2008, 11:40:25 am
grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 03:11

Barry Hufker wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 02:00

You guys do realize Grant is just baiting you, right?



Call me a liar, but I'm not baiting anybody.

I'm asking legitimate questions as I know little about the candidates except for the two issues I mentioned before.

Come on guys...now's your chance to get another democratic vote.  Make it happen!

You started this. There is really one question and you seem very reluctant to answer it.
Why?
So far all we've heard is abortion. Is that it?
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: PRobb on September 05, 2008, 11:43:32 am
John Ivan wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 01:26

grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 00:28

"War is bad, now give me a hand-out!!"

Guys, I started this thread out of sheer curiosity to see who would reply negatively.

I figured since nobody in the saloon talks about anything BUT politics, I'd get an idea where some folks REALLY stand.



A couple things. I don't believe for a moment that you didn't already know where most of us stand on who we are voting for.

Now, the other thing.. If you really believe that the Democratic platform is simply "War is bad, now give me a hand out", then you are a backwards, illiterate dumby..

Look, there is NOT ROOM for you in the national debate if you are going to be using this kind of one line republican rove shit. Really. The country is sick of it..

This shallow thinking is THE REASON our kids are coming home in bags, smart guy. You will not slogan your way into the White House this time. Sorry.

"Tax and spend Liberal"- Republicans don't tax? You don't spend? Really?

"You don't love our country"- What, republicans love our country more? Really?

"The Republican party is the party of Family values"- I have a family. We already have a set of values, thank you very much. We do not get our value system from a political party. Maybe you do, but we don't . We are the "DEMOCRATIC PARTY". See?

"You guys don't support our troops" Non sense. More than non sense. It's a lie you people repeat on purpose because you don't want to talk about the fact that Iraq was the biggest mistake we've made, maybe ever {we'll see}.. There are democrats serving and dieing right now! My dad was in the U'S. Air Force.

Where I stand is very firm ground. From a policy stand point the republican party barely exists at all. Bush has vetoed thousands of pages of things he doesn't understand and the guy you are running now can't run a damn cash register. As for deciding when where and how to use force, this white house may have in fact broken the Law.

War is bad. It's a pretty serious thing to most of us, but not all of us, obviously.

EDIT: I thought I would ad that many who cry "Murder" about abortion have no problem sending 18 and 19 year old Americans to bleed to death in a country that had nothing to do with 911. This is just plain sick. You can MOVE INTO a church if you want to, and hold a Bible in your hands for the rest of your life but for those who believe in this whole heaven thing, I doubt you'll be able to get by the big guy with this one. Talk about yer' "Values".. It's some pretty sick shit man.......

There. Ya know where I stand now?

Why did you start this thread again?

Ivan.......................



Amen, brother.
Usually I wouldn't quote such a long post but this one bears repeating. Very well put, sir.

When fascism comes to America it will be waving a flag and carrying a Bible.
-Sinclair Lewis.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Jessica A. Engle on September 05, 2008, 11:44:16 am
grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 02:11


I'm asking legitimate questions as I know little about the candidates except for the two issues I mentioned before.




Will you please remind us what those questions were?   And I'm not being insincere.

Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: el duderino on September 05, 2008, 11:53:27 am
mccain is quite old and while im sure some will say he's fine i dont know how much i agree with that.

there are articles about probable mortality (here's one http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080903/pl_politico/13096http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080903/pl_politico/13096  )
and of coarse they are never specific to an individual, but based on statistics, a person mccains age is 10 times more likely to die within four years than a person obama's age. and this doesnt even factor in mccains bouts with skin cancer.

plus, even if he stays alive....how will his mind be? wasnt reagan supposedly dealing with alzheimers in his second term? he had bush to run things, someone i dont agree with but at least he had plenty of experience. palin? that just frightens me.

at the same time tho, there are nutball white supremecy groups that support obama because they think a black president will help their cause. id imagine he'd have a constant threat from those whackos.

people dont vote based on VP, but part of me thinks its a bit more important this election due to age and racism.

hows that for avoiding the actual issues? Laughing
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: mgod on September 05, 2008, 12:32:30 pm
el duderino wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 08:53


plus, even if he stays alive....how will his mind be? wasnt reagan supposedly dealing with alzheimers in his second term? he had bush to run things, someone i dont agree with but at least he had plenty of experience. palin? that just frightens me.
Reagan had alzheimers from the start. He was doing delusional things in public during his first year in office.

DS
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Andy Peters on September 05, 2008, 12:44:59 pm
grant richard wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 21:20

J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 22:48

Depends.  Do you think that evolution is just a theory?  Do you think the world is 6,000 years old?



Yes, No


Of course evolution is "just a theory." Gravity, too, is "just a theory."

But obviously you have no idea what the word "theory" actually means in a scientific context.

And that right there is an example of how our country's education system is FAILING its students.

-a
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Andy Peters on September 05, 2008, 01:03:52 pm
grant richard wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 23:37

I find it interesting that nobody has commented on McCain's extra-marital affair.


I will comment on it (as a "McCain constituent" by virtue of geography, not because I ever voted for the guy):

Why is it that extra-marital affairs tend to pretty much destroy the careers (and quickly, I might add) of Democrats -- Edwards is the latest, but of course Spitzer and McGreevey are good recent examples.

But look at how many family values (their term!) Republicans have had affairs and somehow manage to stay in office: Vitters, Craig, Henry Hyde, McCain of course, Gingrich, Guiliani, it goes on.

And it's not that I particularly care whether someone has had an extramarital affair (and I don't say that lightly, as my first marriage ended because my wife had an affair (and frankly, I'm better off now, but I digress)).

What matters to me is that the Republicans all pretend to champion these so-called "Family Values," yet they turn out to be utter hypocrites.

It is NOT the action ... it is the HYPOCRISY regarding the action.

(Which is simply a paraphrase of "It's not the crime, it's the cover-up.")

And, anyways: McCain is a full-on hypocrite. He pretends to be a "maverick" yet loves him some Bush policy. He was ACTUALLY tortured, and should therefore be out front ensuring that our country's policies explicitly forbid (and prosecute claims of!) torture, yet he signs on with Bush's torture regime. He says that he wants to fight the "Special Interests,"  yet the only special interests he's against are those that don't support the neocon agenda.

And it goes on.

He's a douchebag. Plain and simple. Voting for him means that you think that the country is Just Swell and nothing is wrong.

-a
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: PRobb on September 05, 2008, 01:05:32 pm
Andy Peters wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 12:44

grant richard wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 21:20

J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 22:48

Depends.  Do you think that evolution is just a theory?  Do you think the world is 6,000 years old?



Yes, No


Of course evolution is "just a theory." Gravity, too, is "just a theory."

But obviously you have no idea what the word "theory" actually means in a scientific context.

And that right there is an example of how our country's education system is FAILING its students.

-a

The "just a theory" thing drives me nuts. It shows how desperately we need science education in this country.

And to be technical, Natural Selection is the theory that explains the fact of evolution.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Berolzheimer on September 05, 2008, 01:14:39 pm
I'm going to jump in here with a perspective, I have to admit I haven't read the last few pages of this thread so I hope I'm not completely out of context.

All of us who consider ourselves "pro-life", and I think that's all of us including those of us who are pro-choice, should ask ourselves, between the 2 candidates, who has caused more deaths?

I'm not aware of Obama causing any.

McCain on the other hand flew 26 missions in Vietnam, bombing civilians.  It's not out of line to assume that a few dozen people died in each run.  He was bombing a town when he was shot down.  No wonder those people were pissed when they pulled him out of that lake, he was killing their families.

And then he supported, and still supports, the Iraq war, which has killed possibly over a million Iraqi civilians.  And which Obama spoke out against.

And to those who speak of McCain being a hero, fighting for our country, remember again that it's the Vietnam war we're talking about.  This was not an honorable conflict.  Vietnam posed no threat to us. The true heroes of the Vietnam war were the conscientious  objectors who refused to go fight in an unjust and unnecessary war.

Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: mgod on September 05, 2008, 01:15:01 pm
grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 08:36


At what point do democrats become "the man"?

Ask him:

index.php/fa/9858/0/

DS
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Devin Knutson on September 05, 2008, 01:54:26 pm
Andy Peters wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 09:44

grant richard wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 21:20

J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 22:48

Depends.  Do you think that evolution is just a theory?  Do you think the world is 6,000 years old?



Yes, No


Of course evolution is "just a theory." Gravity, too, is "just a theory."

But obviously you have no idea what the word "theory" actually means in a scientific context.

And that right there is an example of how our country's education system is FAILING its students.

-a



Sorry.  Gotta clarify this.

The Theory of Gravitation is the most accepted theory which attempts to predict the behaviour of gravity.

Gravity itself is not a theory, it is an observation.


Natural Selection is the most accepted theory which attempts to predict the behaviour of evolution.

Evolution itself is not a theory, it is an observation.

EDIT:  Sorry PRobb, I see that you had already said this.  It bears repeating, however.  Saying that evolution and gravity are "just theories too" adds fuel to the Flat Earth society, the Wingnuts, the Young Earthers and the Kansas School Board.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 05, 2008, 01:56:57 pm
mgod wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 12:15

grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 08:36


At what point do democrats become "the man"?

Ask him:

index.php/fa/9858/0/

DS


I don't know how to get a hold of him.

Nobody has a reply?  Really?
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Jay Kadis on September 05, 2008, 01:59:59 pm
Devin Knutson wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 10:54


Sorry.  Gotta clarify this.

The Theory of Gravitation is the most accepted theory which attempts to predict the behaviour of gravity.

Gravity itself is not a theory, it is an observation.
Gravity is a physical behavior, not an observation.  It exists without an observer.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Devin Knutson on September 05, 2008, 02:07:41 pm
Jay Kadis wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 10:59

Devin Knutson wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 10:54


Sorry.  Gotta clarify this.

The Theory of Gravitation is the most accepted theory which attempts to predict the behaviour of gravity.

Gravity itself is not a theory, it is an observation.
Gravity is a physical behavior, not an observation.  It exists without an observer.



Well yes, but the story (admittedly largely apocryphal) goes that the modern study of science began when Sir Isaac observed gravity (apple falls on head).

While your point is certainly correct, and equally applicable to evolution, it does fall rather outside the current scope I think.

On the other hand, the Copenhagen Interpretation of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle has led to the modern study of Quantum Physics, which may yet have something concrete to say about physical behaviours existing in the absence of observation.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Jessica A. Engle on September 05, 2008, 02:09:00 pm
grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 12:56


Nobody has a reply?  Really?



To a rhetorical question?   Or was there something else you wanted to know other than who "the man" is?  

C'mon.  If you want to play, then play fair.  If you're going to take your ball and go home, then go home already.  

You came in here with a lie to get a rise out of people.  You later admitted you hadn't decided who you were going to vote for.

So, what do you want to know?   If you ask a straightforward question you might find you get a straightforward answer.  If you want to be rhetorical, then don't act so suprised when your rhetoric is returned to you unopened.  It only makes you look churlish.  

I'm still marginally interested in what you want to know; but have yet to hear from you what that is.

Jessica



Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: i dig music on September 05, 2008, 02:14:02 pm
Grant, you made these statements:

"I'm Voting McCain"

and,

"Deal with it".

My guess is, you don't have 2 young daughters that will ask why its ok for McCains VP's daughter to be pregnant, but different from what I told them regarding Jamie Lynn spears.

Let's just change the rule's and platform {spin the shit out of it} whenever its "best" for God and Country.

"What ever works",

to get elected,

right?

"Deal with it", and wake the fuck up.


Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: YZ on September 05, 2008, 03:01:57 pm
Grant,

A question for you, if I may:

You've already stated your vote, now tell me why, what are your reasons for that vote.

You seem to be asking the folks here "why not" and so far I've seen many responses, regardless of their quality; now it is your turn.

Convince me to vote McCain.

Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: amorris on September 05, 2008, 03:28:48 pm
Mc Cain has sure surprised me. pretty classy guy. congratulated Obamma within 10 minutes of start, not condesendingly either. seems to handle business pretty well, Not the most vibrant choice but Hey he's not a Socialist. And all the anti religion comes off as arrogant. Hey there is no old man in a throne in the sky but do you really know how all this began? I didnt think so. science is just this era's best guess. and guess what, that will change in 50 years. So what they beleive is wrong too.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: C.O. Jones on September 05, 2008, 03:34:53 pm
mgod wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 10:11

...But, if you were responding to me, as it seemed you were, I made no mention of government care in the context of faith....


It seemed to me you had agreed with some who gleefully dismiss Christians as hypocrites over their lack of enthusiasm for The State being further involved in the charity business.  I wanted to make the point that taking care of  the less fortunate is not something some Christians (and many others, I'm sure) want administrated by government, for many reasons that have nothing to do with being stingy.

I'm kind of surprised no one has responded to my observation in the last paragraph of that post.

Jones
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: mgod on September 05, 2008, 03:54:30 pm
grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 10:56


Nobody has a reply?  Really?

Nobody gives a shit about the question. Really.

DS
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: mgod on September 05, 2008, 03:58:39 pm
C.O. Jones wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 12:34

I'm kind of surprised no one has responded to my observation in the last paragraph of that post.

Jones

Because its your observation? Not anyone else's? I've never seen anyone behave the way you describe. Ever.

And, no I made no mention of state in my thoughts about christian charity. That's a box in your mind, not mine. I don't associate them, but then I don't associate actual christianity with government in any form.

DS
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Steve Hudson on September 05, 2008, 04:25:17 pm
Andy Peters wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 12:03

grant richard wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 23:37

I find it interesting that nobody has commented on McCain's extra-marital affair.


I will comment on it (as a "McCain constituent" by virtue of geography, not because I ever voted for the guy):

Why is it that extra-marital affairs tend to pretty much destroy the careers (and quickly, I might add) of Democrats -- Edwards is the latest, but of course Spitzer and McGreevey are good recent examples.

But look at how many family values (their term!) Republicans have had affairs and somehow manage to stay in office: Vitters, Craig, Henry Hyde, McCain of course, Gingrich, Guiliani, it goes on.

And it's not that I particularly care whether someone has had an extramarital affair (and I don't say that lightly, as my first marriage ended because my wife had an affair (and frankly, I'm better off now, but I digress)).

What matters to me is that the Republicans all pretend to champion these so-called "Family Values," yet they turn out to be utter hypocrites.

It is NOT the action ... it is the HYPOCRISY regarding the action.

(Which is simply a paraphrase of "It's not the crime, it's the cover-up.")

And, anyways: McCain is a full-on hypocrite. He pretends to be a "maverick" yet loves him some Bush policy. He was ACTUALLY tortured, and should therefore be out front ensuring that our country's policies explicitly forbid (and prosecute claims of!) torture, yet he signs on with Bush's torture regime. He says that he wants to fight the "Special Interests,"  yet the only special interests he's against are those that don't support the neocon agenda.

And it goes on.

He's a douchebag. Plain and simple. Voting for him means that you think that the country is Just Swell and nothing is wrong.

-a


Well said, Andy.

I was very amused (and not surprised) that during the presentation on how John & Cindy McCain met and fell in love, the Republicans conveniently left out the part that John was married to the mother of his three children at the time. The Republicans are expert at trying to rewrite history just by saying something that isn't true and hoping someone won't bother to check the facts, or leaving out important details that would reveal the hypocrisy of their statements. I'm sick of those lyin' sacks of shit, which is why I left them behind fifteen years ago.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Berolzheimer on September 05, 2008, 05:19:21 pm
Steve Hudson wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 13:25

Andy Peters wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 12:03

grant richard wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 23:37

I find it interesting that nobody has commented on McCain's extra-marital affair.


I will comment on it (as a "McCain constituent" by virtue of geography, not because I ever voted for the guy):

Why is it that extra-marital affairs tend to pretty much destroy the careers (and quickly, I might add) of Democrats -- Edwards is the latest, but of course Spitzer and McGreevey are good recent examples.

But look at how many family values (their term!) Republicans have had affairs and somehow manage to stay in office: Vitters, Craig, Henry Hyde, McCain of course, Gingrich, Guiliani, it goes on.

And it's not that I particularly care whether someone has had an extramarital affair (and I don't say that lightly, as my first marriage ended because my wife had an affair (and frankly, I'm better off now, but I digress)).

What matters to me is that the Republicans all pretend to champion these so-called "Family Values," yet they turn out to be utter hypocrites.

It is NOT the action ... it is the HYPOCRISY regarding the action.

(Which is simply a paraphrase of "It's not the crime, it's the cover-up.")

And, anyways: McCain is a full-on hypocrite. He pretends to be a "maverick" yet loves him some Bush policy. He was ACTUALLY tortured, and should therefore be out front ensuring that our country's policies explicitly forbid (and prosecute claims of!) torture, yet he signs on with Bush's torture regime. He says that he wants to fight the "Special Interests,"  yet the only special interests he's against are those that don't support the neocon agenda.

And it goes on.

He's a douchebag. Plain and simple. Voting for him means that you think that the country is Just Swell and nothing is wrong.

-a


Well said, Andy.

I was very amused (and not surprised) that during the presentation on how John & Cindy McCain met and fell in love, the Republicans conveniently left out the part that John was married to the wife of his three children at the time. The Republicans are expert at trying to rewrite history just by saying something that isn't true and hoping someone won't bother to check the facts, or leave out important details that would reveal the hypocrisy of their statements. I'm sick of those lyin' sacks of shit, which is why I left them behind fifteen years ago.



While I agree with you, Steve, I don't think McCain was married to the wifeof his 3 children.  Their Mother, yes.


Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: PRobb on September 05, 2008, 05:22:57 pm
amorris wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 15:28

Mc Cain has sure surprised me. pretty classy guy. congratulated Obamma within 10 minutes of start, not condesendingly either. seems to handle business pretty well, Not the most vibrant choice but Hey he's not a Socialist. And all the anti religion comes off as arrogant. Hey there is no old man in a throne in the sky but do you really know how all this began? I didnt think so. science is just this era's best guess. and guess what, that will change in 50 years. So what they beleive is wrong too.


I think McCain is basically a decent guy. Although the fact that he is allowing his people to run a Karl Rove style campaign after he pledged he wouldn't raises some serious questions of how in charge of the campaign he really is. He said he wants to end the partisan rancor. That's a pretty tough sell after the speeches of Palin, Thompson and especially Giulliani.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Steve Hudson on September 05, 2008, 05:23:13 pm
Good catch.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Berolzheimer on September 05, 2008, 05:29:42 pm
And personally I don't care at all about who has sex with who.  We're much to hung up on sex in this country, it's just a physical act that people do for pleasure or to make babies, we really imbue it with way too much meaning & bullshit.  Everyone does it, everyone wants it, we all like variety, get over it.  The only relevance it has in this discussion is that it is evidence of hypocrisy & dishonesty.

What we should be talking & thinking about is what the candidates will do once in office.  Period.  and I think that it's obvious that McCain & Palin will continue to fuck up our country in the service of their wealth & that of their friends, and Obama & Biden will actually try to make this a better, smarter, more civil society.


Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: i dig music on September 05, 2008, 05:37:11 pm
Berolzheimer wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 16:29

And personally I don't care at all about who has sex with who.  We're much to hung up on sex in this country, it's just a physical act that people do for pleasure or to make babies, we really imbue it with way too much meaning & bullshit.  Everyone does it, everyone wants it, we all like variety, get over it.  The only relevance it has in this discussion is that it is evidence of hypocrisy & dishonesty.




agreed,

but you might understand better, how the sex part comes into play, when you have to explain that hypocrisy to your daughters.

It seems like the red states get to pick and choose how family values are viewed during an important election.


Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: mgod on September 05, 2008, 06:18:26 pm
That's never been an issue here. My daughter, now 14, sees the hypocrisy clearly without me doing anything. But maybe that's because she's been raised on The Simpsons and the Daily Show, a parent's best friends. The Daily Show was especially good last night on the subject of why the RNC chose Minneapolis/St. Paul.

DS
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Steve Hudson on September 05, 2008, 06:19:30 pm
Yes, hypocrisy and dishonesty. That's the true Republican banner. I recall going to The Eagle, a gay restaurant/leather bar in DC, with a work colleague back in the early '80s and being shocked to see, seated at the table next to us, Terry Dolan, the chairman of the National Conservative Political Action Committee (NCPAC). Dolan, a skilled fundraiser for the Right, publicly railed against gays until he was outed and sadly died of AIDS. I could care less when a man parks his truck at night, but Dolan pissed off more than a few people in DC with his two-faced nature.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Berolzheimer on September 05, 2008, 06:20:06 pm
i dig music wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 14:37

Berolzheimer wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 16:29

And personally I don't care at all about who has sex with who.  We're much to hung up on sex in this country, it's just a physical act that people do for pleasure or to make babies, we really imbue it with way too much meaning & bullshit.  Everyone does it, everyone wants it, we all like variety, get over it.  The only relevance it has in this discussion is that it is evidence of hypocrisy & dishonesty.




agreed,

but you might understand better, how the sex part comes into play, when you have to explain that hypocrisy to your daughters.

It seems like the red states get to pick and choose how family values are viewed during an important election.






Yes, And I appreciated your perspective as you described it in your previous post.
Nice example for the potential VP's daughter to be setting for the teenage girls of this country.  Especially coming from the uptight right.

FWIW I have 2 sons, one of whom is in the early throes of teenagedom.

Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: rankus on September 05, 2008, 06:45:40 pm


A new slogan for ya'll:

"You'd have to be insane to vote McCain"

It's not about a woman's right to choose whats right for her own body and life... That's a smoke screen... a distraction... it's about whether you want to have the rest of the world on your side, or not.

Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: PRobb on September 05, 2008, 07:10:53 pm
mgod wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 18:18

That's never been an issue here. My daughter, now 14, sees the hypocrisy clearly without me doing anything. But maybe that's because she's been raised on The Simpsons and the Daily Show, a parent's best friends. The Daily Show was especially good last night on the subject of why the RNC chose Minneapolis/St. Paul.

DS

That might have ben he best Daily Show ever!

As to the sex thing, to me it depends on the politician. If a politician says private morality is none of the government's business, their private life should be off limits. If a politician says private morality is a political issue, then their own private morality is a legitimate political issue.
Title: Re: I'm Voting Insane
Post by: cerberus on September 05, 2008, 07:19:34 pm
lately i am starting to think more highly of senator clinton.
maybe i was too harsh on her for wearing the pearls...

jeff dinces
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 05, 2008, 07:55:02 pm
mgod wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 14:54

grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 10:56


Nobody has a reply?  Really?

Nobody gives a shit about the question. Really.

DS



Oh, ok.  I was under the understanding that liberals have been complaining about "the man" for 40 some-odd years.

Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Andy Peters on September 05, 2008, 07:57:34 pm
Devin Knutson wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 10:54

Andy Peters wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 09:44

grant richard wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 21:20

J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 22:48

Depends.  Do you think that evolution is just a theory?  Do you think the world is 6,000 years old?



Yes, No


Of course evolution is "just a theory." Gravity, too, is "just a theory."

But obviously you have no idea what the word "theory" actually means in a scientific context.

And that right there is an example of how our country's education system is FAILING its students.

-a



Sorry.  Gotta clarify this.

The Theory of Gravitation is the most accepted theory which attempts to predict the behaviour of gravity.

Gravity itself is not a theory, it is an observation.


Natural Selection is the most accepted theory which attempts to predict the behaviour of evolution.

Evolution itself is not a theory, it is an observation.

EDIT:  Sorry PRobb, I see that you had already said this.  It bears repeating, however.  Saying that evolution and gravity are "just theories too" adds fuel to the Flat Earth society, the Wingnuts, the Young Earthers and the Kansas School Board.


Thanks for the clarification!

-a
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Andy Peters on September 05, 2008, 08:02:10 pm
Steve Hudson wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 15:19

Yes, hypocrisy and dishonesty. That's the true Republican banner. I recall going to The Eagle, a gay restaurant/leather bar in DC, with a work colleague back in the early '80s and being shocked to see, seated at the table next to us, Terry Dolan, the chairman of the National Conservative Political Action Committee (NCPAC). Dolan, a skilled fundraiser for the Right, publicly railed against gays until he was outed and sadly died of AIDS. I could care less when a man parks his truck at night, but Dolan pissed off more than a few people in DC with his two-faced nature.


Well, here's a theory (testable, developed using observation and inference, you know, like in science):

The louder someone is shouting against something (like homosexuality, drugs, whatever), the more likely that person is covering up his homosexuality, history of drug abuse, whatever.

-a
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 05, 2008, 08:04:13 pm
Andy Peters wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 19:02

Steve Hudson wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 15:19

Yes, hypocrisy and dishonesty. That's the true Republican banner. I recall going to The Eagle, a gay restaurant/leather bar in DC, with a work colleague back in the early '80s and being shocked to see, seated at the table next to us, Terry Dolan, the chairman of the National Conservative Political Action Committee (NCPAC). Dolan, a skilled fundraiser for the Right, publicly railed against gays until he was outed and sadly died of AIDS. I could care less when a man parks his truck at night, but Dolan pissed off more than a few people in DC with his two-faced nature.


Well, here's a theory (testable, developed using observation and inference, you know, like in science):

The louder someone is shouting against something (like homosexuality, drugs, whatever), the more likely that person is covering up his homosexuality, history of drug abuse, whatever.

-a




Ohhhhh, I see now.  Kind of in the same way that the most flamboyant homosexual people are really covering up their heterosexuality right?
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Andy Peters on September 05, 2008, 08:09:37 pm
amorris wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 12:28

Mc Cain has sure surprised me. pretty classy guy. congratulated Obamma within 10 minutes of start, not condesendingly either. seems to handle business pretty well, Not the most vibrant choice but Hey he's not a Socialist. And all the anti religion comes off as arrogant. Hey there is no old man in a throne in the sky but do you really know how all this began? I didnt think so. science is just this era's best guess. and guess what, that will change in 50 years. So what they beleive is wrong too.


Yeah, he's so fucking classy that he lets his surrogates do all of the dirty work.

Or is your head so far up your ass that you managed to miss the speeches by Thompson, Guiliani and Palin?

Jesus H Christ, on a popsicle stick.

As for religion, I really think that McCain actually doesn't give a shit about it. However, to get where he is, he had to genuflect in front of the usual suspects. "Pandering" doesn't go far enough to describe his actions in this regard.

As for "handling business well," in what way? Has he ever run a business, or even worked for a living? His wife certainly doesn't run a business, which is why Anheuser-Busch classifies her as an "absentee owner" and required her to hire a managing director.

-a
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Larrchild on September 05, 2008, 08:10:03 pm
Jack Albertson was "The Man"

Freddy Prinze was "Chico"

hope I've helped.
index.php/fa/9861/0/
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 05, 2008, 08:16:17 pm
Larrchild wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 19:10

Jack Albertson was "The Man"

Freddy Prinze was "Chico"

hope I've helped.
index.php/fa/9861/0/


No sir, you have not.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 05, 2008, 08:23:52 pm
Andy Peters wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 19:09



As for "handling business well," in what way? Has he ever run a business, or even worked for a living?

-a


yeah.  he owns a parking lot.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: C.O. Jones on September 05, 2008, 09:40:34 pm
Andy Peters wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 19:09

...As for "handling business well," in what way? Has he ever run a business, or even worked for a living?...
-a


Lieutenant Commander in the United States Navy is a pretty responsible leadership position.  Granted, he probably couldn't navigate anything as monumentally important as a PCM 70 Parameter Matrix.

Jones
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: PRobb on September 05, 2008, 10:17:59 pm
grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 19:55

mgod wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 14:54

grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 10:56


Nobody has a reply?  Really?

Nobody gives a shit about the question. Really.

DS



Oh, ok.  I was under the understanding that liberals have been complaining about "the man" for 40 some-odd years.



Your just a bomb thrower with nothing to say, aren't you?
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: C.O. Jones on September 05, 2008, 10:29:36 pm
PRobb wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 21:17

grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 19:55

mgod wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 14:54

grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 10:56


Nobody has a reply?  Really?

Nobody gives a shit about the question. Really.

DS



Oh, ok.  I was under the understanding that liberals have been complaining about "the man" for 40 some-odd years.



Your just a bomb thrower with nothing to say, aren't you?


Cripes P...,  Your  going personal.  Your intellect is usually more exquisite than what Your showing here. Very Happy

Jones
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: danickstr on September 05, 2008, 10:43:39 pm
Who was Scatman Carothers?

Man I am glad I stayed out of this one, but I did like the comment about everyone wanting sex.  I think that is true.



One answer to who was Scatman Carothers is Hong Kong Phooey.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: seedyunderbelly.com on September 05, 2008, 10:43:47 pm
I would wager Grant is pulling everyone's chain  ???



Everyone know if those cats had a chance they would do without us types 1st..

Good One dude.

Even if he is serious you can not Totally fault a fellow for suggesting mass sucicide water torture style.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Edvaard on September 06, 2008, 12:12:23 am
I wish that things would not keep coming to this,
and I must allow some disappointment in regards to such statements.

"everyone want's sex".  Are you serious, as if that is the prime motivation for all things?

Even for males, that falls short from stating the essentials of what moves society forward.

Society and "civilization" have done both well and worse based on what people have considered beyond the 5-10 minutes after "sex".

The ability of our scope to move beyond that is the measure of things, rather than being based upon it.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: C.O. Jones on September 06, 2008, 12:38:51 am
Edvaard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 23:12

I wish that things would not keep coming to this,
and I must allow some disappointment in regards to such statements.

"everyone want's sex".  Are you serious, as if that is the prime motivation for all things?

Even for males, that falls short from stating the essentials of what moves society forward.

Society and "civilization" have done both well and worse based on what people have considered beyond the 5-10 minutes after "sex".

The ability of our scope to move beyond that is the measure of things, rather than being based upon it.


Sorry to get on your case bro, but..


First, quote-box  the post you're responding to.  Makes things easier for all of us.

Second,  your brain-stem evaluates size, age, and gender, whenever you see another human.  It goes way back, but we're all pre-programmed to first evaluate the prospects of whether fightin' or fuckin' may be headed our way.

Call it God's Will, or blame it on natural selection, either perspective, it's just the way it is.

Jones




Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: mgod on September 06, 2008, 12:41:39 am
grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 17:04


Andy Peters wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 19:02


Well, here's a theory (testable, developed using observation and inference, you know, like in science):

The louder someone is shouting against something (like homosexuality, drugs, whatever), the more likely that person is covering up his homosexuality, history of drug abuse, whatever.

-a

Ohhhhh, I see now.  Kind of in the same way that the most flamboyant homosexual people are really covering up their heterosexuality right?

How many flamboyant homosexuals have you seen shouting against heterosexuality? Try to keep up, Grant. You started this.

And no, liberals have not been exclusively complaining about the man. That's Cheech and Chong. No wonder no one answered your question - no one got that you were taking a comedy routine seriously.

DS
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: mgod on September 06, 2008, 12:47:46 am
C.O. Jones wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 19:29

PRobb wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 21:17


Your just a bomb thrower with nothing to say, aren't you?


Cripes P...,  Your  going personal.  Your intellect is usually more exquisite than what Your showing here. Very Happy

Jones

Doesn't mean he's not right so far. We can hope. But up til now its just innuendo and prejudice and a bit of idiocy thrown in to keep it entertaining. The real conversation is among the rest of us.

DS
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: maxim on September 06, 2008, 01:04:49 am
"...raised on The Simpsons and the Daily Show, a parent's best friends"

my favourite babysitters so far have been the south park boys, matt and trey

i wish i had them to say it like it is, when i was growing up...

(i also wish they showed sarah silverman's show over here, but, hey, my son and his pals have youtube, something i never even dreamed of when i was a kid)
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: C.O. Jones on September 06, 2008, 01:06:59 am
mgod wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 23:47

... But up til now its just innuendo and prejudice and a bit of idiocy thrown in to keep it entertaining. The real conversation is among the rest of us.

DS


I'm curious to know what  so fuels your ire.

Fair question?

Jones
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: maxim on September 06, 2008, 01:11:58 am
"The louder someone is shouting against something (like homosexuality, drugs, whatever), the more likely that person is covering up his homosexuality, history of drug abuse, whatever"

it's a well-known fact, related to the concept of "spontaneous denial"

if you EVER hear anyone deny something without being asked, you can bet your life savings, it's an admission of guilt

mostly exhibited by preachers and politicians, but everyone's guilty of it one time or another...
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Larrchild on September 06, 2008, 01:34:43 am
No I'm not.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: maxim on September 06, 2008, 02:00:39 am
i didn't say you were......


..... whoops, what a giveaway....
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: YZ on September 06, 2008, 04:00:48 am
grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 21:04



Ohhhhh, I see now.  Kind of in the same way that the most flamboyant homosexual people are really covering up their heterosexuality right?


Not the same thing.

A flamboyant homosexual is showing clearly his/her sexual preference.

He/She is not shouting against heterosexuality.

So the heterosexual equivalent of the flamboyant gay is the renown womanizer,  the 'playboy' (if male) or 'man-eater' if female.

The closet gay who shouts against 'gayness' is lying about his sexuality and stating that it is a bad thing.

Kind of like the people who cry against corruption but are found to be guilty of it.

BTW, you haven't answered my question yet: what are the reasons for voting McCain?

Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: MDM, on September 06, 2008, 10:04:56 am
Speaking of presidential candidates, how is McCain model SIGNIFICANTLY different from Obama model, anyway?

aren't they owned and produced by the same company?

I mean what's the use of arguing?

you vote for the one who you like more emotionally, but in the end the results are going to be the same, just you watch..

Wasn't it Bush Jr. who got elected saying he was AGAINST nationbuilding?? ha!
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 06, 2008, 10:23:25 am
mgod wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 23:47

C.O. Jones wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 19:29

PRobb wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 21:17


Your just a bomb thrower with nothing to say, aren't you?


Cripes P...,  Your  going personal.  Your intellect is usually more exquisite than what Your showing here. Very Happy

Jones

Doesn't mean he's not right so far. We can hope. But up til now its just innuendo and prejudice and a bit of idiocy thrown in to keep it entertaining. The real conversation is among the rest of us.

DS


You forgot "fun".
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: mgod on September 06, 2008, 11:36:51 am
C.O. Jones wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 22:06

I'm curious to know what  so fuels your ire.

Fair question?

Jones

YZ wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 01:00

BTW, you haven't answered my question yet: what are the reasons for voting McCain?
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 06, 2008, 11:52:12 am
mgod wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 10:36


YZ wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 01:00

BTW, you haven't answered my question yet: what are the reasons for voting McCain?



Read the entire thread.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: C.O. Jones on September 06, 2008, 11:53:34 am
mgod wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 10:36

C.O. Jones wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 22:06

I'm curious to know what  so fuels your ire.

Fair question?

Jones

YZ wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 01:00

BTW, you haven't answered my question yet: what are the reasons for voting McCain?




You're pissed that I haven't answered a question another poster asked the OP ??


That's a pretty low threshold for wrath.

Jones
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: mgod on September 06, 2008, 11:56:48 am
Oh. First I'm not pissed, Second, I wasn't addressing you at all.

PRobb wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 19:17

grant richard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 19:55


Oh, ok.  I was under the understanding that liberals have been complaining about "the man" for 40 some-odd years.

Your just a bomb thrower with nothing to say, aren't you?



DS
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Berolzheimer on September 06, 2008, 01:34:19 pm
Edvaard wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 21:12

I wish that things would not keep coming to this,
and I must allow some disappointment in regards to such statements.

"everyone want's sex".  Are you serious, as if that is the prime motivation for all things?

Even for males, that falls short from stating the essentials of what moves society forward.

Society and "civilization" have done both well and worse based on what people have considered beyond the 5-10 minutes after "sex".

The ability of our scope to move beyond that is the measure of things, rather than being based upon it.


You're completely missing what I was saying, which was that sex is just a normal part of life, not such big deal, some people like to have multiple partners and that's strictly between them and the people they're going to bed with, so get over it.  Let's talk about instead the policies the candidates will enact, the laws they'll sign or veto, the judges they'll appoint.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Berolzheimer on September 06, 2008, 01:41:30 pm
MDM, wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 07:04

Speaking of presidential candidates, how is McCain model SIGNIFICANTLY different from Obama model, anyway?

aren't they owned and produced by the same company?

I mean what's the use of arguing?

you vote for the one who you like more emotionally, but in the end the results are going to be the same, just you watch..

Wasn't it Bush Jr. who got elected saying he was AGAINST nationbuilding?? ha!



If you don't know the differences between these 2 you REALLY haven't been paying attention.

CLick here and read:

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

and here:

http://factcheck.barackobama.com/

Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: MDM, on September 06, 2008, 04:42:41 pm
I would not use such information, based on reputation of his wife, his deeds etc. as a measure of how the party as a whole is going to behave in the next few years..

both parties are run by the same companies, and the main differences are in catering to one or the other side of the fence, but from an emotional point of view..

the world's most powerful and richest people are also major fundraisers and doners for good causes.. does that make them good and responsible citizens? Usually not.. good deeds are done to counteract the bad reputation that comes with dirty tricks and lack of respect towards humanity in general.. often..

the proof is in the pudding, and all it takes to understand what's going on is to look at the history of the last 30 or so years..

two-party politics is a farce.

why aren't the other parties represented as well as the republicans and democrats? because the other parties are not owned by the same people.. who also own (indirectly.. by virtue of cartel) the media etc. etc..

so instead of bickering about Obama and McCain people should be considering all the other nominees that didn't get but a minute fraction of air time or newspaper coverage that the soap-star-politicians do to an excess..

can you not see what a great divide there is between the two parties and the rest of humankind?
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Berolzheimer on September 06, 2008, 08:06:22 pm
while I agree that the two-party system sucks and we should have proportional representation and there are people I'd like to see as president more than any democrat and yes, the Dems have become too beholden to corporate America, I think it's extremely important that Obama win this election.  He's the most progressive candidate to be nominated in a very long time and will push the party in that direction- remember the president is essentially the leader of the party.  If McCain wins he will continue down the very destructive path that bushcheney have been taking us down and which we may already be too far along to ever recover from.   It's no less than our very survival a a species that is at stake here.

Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Tom L on September 06, 2008, 08:54:47 pm
"stick out your can, 'cuz here come the garbage man..."
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: YZ on September 06, 2008, 09:08:11 pm
grant richard wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 12:52

mgod wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 10:36


YZ wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 01:00

BTW, you haven't answered my question yet: what are the reasons for voting McCain?



Read the entire thread.


Oh I did, Grant.

That's why I am asking you for the THIRD time to give me reasons for voting McCain.

The two previous times you dodged, or better, ran away from the question.

I am asking for a straight list of reasons because if I am to guide myself only by your replies (and the replies of other McCain supporters here)and infer from that, then not only I see no reason at all to vote for him, I see plenty of reasons to vote in whatever other candidates might exist.




Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 06, 2008, 10:37:23 pm
YZ wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 20:08

grant richard wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 12:52

mgod wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 10:36


YZ wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 01:00

BTW, you haven't answered my question yet: what are the reasons for voting McCain?



Read the entire thread.


Oh I did, Grant.

That's why I am asking you for the THIRD time to give me reasons for voting McCain.

The two previous times you dodged, or better, ran away from the question.

I am asking for a straight list of reasons because if I am to guide myself only by your replies (and the replies of other McCain supporters here)and infer from that, then not only I see no reason at all to vote for him, I see plenty of reasons to vote in whatever other candidates might exist.







You obviously did not see my post about my reasons against both Obama and McCain, and that I had actually not made up my mind yet.

OR

The post about why I started this thread to begin with.

Please read again.

EDIT:
I see you've removed your location from your profile. I have to ask...why do you care?
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: cerberus on September 06, 2008, 10:57:17 pm
MDM, wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 16:42

two-party politics

why don't lions and tigers cooperate to hunt their caribou and antelope? it would
be so much more efficient, and the big cats would definately end up
with more food. they could even send aid to the ocelots...

i personally suppport the deer-rabbit-muskrat
coalition if anyone was wondering. if only
we could control those damned birds.

jeff dinces
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: YZ on September 06, 2008, 10:59:50 pm
grant richard wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 23:37



You obviously did not see my post about my reasons against both Obama and McCain, and that I had actually not made up my mind yet.

OR

The post about why I started this thread to begin with.

Please read again.



you mean this:
Quote:


I stand on my faith.

Obama is pro-choice, not something I'm willing to vote for.

McCain is a mistress groping SOB, not something I'm willing to vote for either.

I have yet to make up my mind on which man I'd rather have leading the ***currently*** most powerful nation in the world.

I think the best way for me to decide to to look past the negatives on both sides and determine which positives I'd most agree with. To be continued.


Well, you started the thread by saying you're voting McCain; a bit later you posted the above-quoted text.

So list the positives of McCain you've found so far, please.
Quote:


EDIT:
I see you've removed your location from your profile. I have to ask...why do you care?


No, I did not remove my location from my profile: It was never there to begin with.

Does it matter?
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: YZ on September 06, 2008, 11:08:57 pm
Oh, as a PS to my previous reply:

You said you stand on your faith.

One of the candidates believes in making abortion available for those who do not follow your faith (those who do follow won't be having abortions just because the law does not prohibit it, right?);

The other himself commits acts that are against the faith both you and him say to be following.

So in my view, the first one is for plurality of faith while the second is a hypocrite.

Based solely on the above, one should not vote for the first if they do not believe in other people's right to follow a different faith; one should not vote for the second if he does not believe in having as the chief commander of the nation a liar and hypocrite.

So at least for me, and again if based solely on what you have stated so far as your main concerns, the choice is quite clear.

Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 06, 2008, 11:12:47 pm
YZ wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 21:59

grant richard wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 23:37



You obviously did not see my post about my reasons against both Obama and McCain, and that I had actually not made up my mind yet.

OR

The post about why I started this thread to begin with.

Please read again.



you mean this:
Quote:


I stand on my faith.

Obama is pro-choice, not something I'm willing to vote for.

McCain is a mistress groping SOB, not something I'm willing to vote for either.

I have yet to make up my mind on which man I'd rather have leading the ***currently*** most powerful nation in the world.

I think the best way for me to decide to to look past the negatives on both sides and determine which positives I'd most agree with. To be continued.


Well, you started the thread by saying you're voting McCain; a bit later you posted the above-quoted text.

So list the positives of McCain you've found so far, please.
Quote:


EDIT:
I see you've removed your location from your profile. I have to ask...why do you care?


No, I did not remove my location from my profile: It was never there to begin with.

Does it matter?




Nope, keep digging.

And I could've sworn you lived in Brazil.  We've been through this before...
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: YZ on September 06, 2008, 11:38:00 pm
grant richard wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 00:12

YZ wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 21:59


No, I did not remove my location from my profile: It was never there to begin with.

Does it matter?




Nope, keep digging.

And I could've sworn you lived in Brazil.  We've been through this before...


I do. It's no secret, I've mentioned it several times in a variety of threads here. Just look at all the oil-related threads.

It just has never been in my profile, I don't think it matters, do you?

What I don't get is your "we've been through this before".

And BTW, you still haven't answered anything.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 06, 2008, 11:49:11 pm
YZ wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 22:38

grant richard wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 00:12

YZ wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 21:59


No, I did not remove my location from my profile: It was never there to begin with.

Does it matter?




Nope, keep digging.

And I could've sworn you lived in Brazil.  We've been through this before...


I do. It's no secret, I've mentioned it several times in a variety of threads here. Just look at all the oil-related threads.

It just has never been in my profile, I don't think it matters, do you?

What I don't get is your "we've been through this before".

And BTW, you still haven't answered anything.




Well, I have little regard for what foreigners have to say about our presidential election.  Call me a jerk, but it cost wars to make sure we didn't have to listen to anybody tell us how to run our country.  I know that may mean little to some anti-war folks here, but without them, you'd be speaking German.

We went through this same thing in an oil-related thread as you speak of.

And I don't plan to, as I still don't know who I'm voting for.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Berolzheimer on September 07, 2008, 12:19:50 am
grant richard wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 20:49

YZ wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 22:38

grant richard wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 00:12

YZ wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 21:59


No, I did not remove my location from my profile: It was never there to begin with.

Does it matter?




Nope, keep digging.

And I could've sworn you lived in Brazil.  We've been through this before...


I do. It's no secret, I've mentioned it several times in a variety of threads here. Just look at all the oil-related threads.

It just has never been in my profile, I don't think it matters, do you?

What I don't get is your "we've been through this before".

And BTW, you still haven't answered anything.




Well, I have little regard for what foreigners have to say about our presidential election.  Call me a jerk, but it cost wars to make sure we didn't have to listen to anybody tell us how to run our country.  I know that may mean little to some anti-war folks here, but without them, you'd be speaking German.

We went through this same thing in an oil-related thread as you speak of.

And I don't plan to, as I still don't know who I'm voting for.



We are, as you mentioned, *currently* the most powerful nation on earth.  Therefore all the other nations have quite a stake in our elections, this election especially.

Not only that, but the problems we are currently facing are global in nature.  If we continue to spew our crap into the air & oceans unabated al the other people on the planet will suffer right along with us.  If you ask me they ought to have a say in our elections as we effect them very directly.  It's only fair.

Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: YZ on September 07, 2008, 12:26:40 am
grant richard wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 00:49


Well, I have little regard for what foreigners have to say about our presidential election.


I see you will say and do anything to avoid answering questions that make you uncomfortable.

And BTW, this is an international forum, so any subject posted here is open to international discussion.

Following your reasoning, you should not comment on subjects beyond your borders too.

So being a man, you should not have any say about what a woman does to her body, unless the child is yours too.


Quote:


Call me a jerk


No need.  and no wish to.

Quote:


I still don't know who I'm voting for.


You started the thread saying you had already chosen a candidate and that others would have to "deal with it".

Listing your reasons to vote for each candidate may help you make a decision.

Do it for both candidates.

No need to post the list here, keep it to yourself, and be honest with yourself while creating it and studying it.

Then when you get to vote you will be sure that you're really voting with conscience.

No matter who you will end up voting for.


Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 07, 2008, 12:47:49 am
YZ wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 23:26

Following your reasoning, you should not comment on subjects beyond your borders too.





Stop it, you're making this too much fun for me.

I have to stop right here...for fear of laughing my lungs out.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 07, 2008, 12:49:26 am
Quote:

You started the thread saying you had already chosen a candidate and that others would have to "deal with it".


I see you've still not found my post about why I started this thread...keep looking.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: maxim on September 07, 2008, 12:52:52 am
"Call me a jerk, but it cost wars to make sure we didn't have to listen to anybody tell us how to run our country."

you're a jerk



"I know that may mean little to some anti-war folks here, but without them, you'd be speaking German."

without the anti-war folks???

so, let's recount:

you're pro-war and anti-choice

you're willing to vote for a known hypocrite and liar, so you can get what you want

i'm not surprised you're voting for maccain....
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 07, 2008, 12:54:30 am
maxim wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 23:52

"Call me a jerk, but it cost wars to make sure we didn't have to listen to anybody tell us how to run our country."

you're a jerk...


You wish you could vote too eh?
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: maxim on September 07, 2008, 12:58:36 am
"You wish you could vote too eh?"

sure

when your president declares war on iraq, my son is put at risk...
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 07, 2008, 01:03:53 am
maxim wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 23:58

"You wish you could vote too eh?"

sure

when your president declares war on iraq, my son is put at risk...


Not if the people leading your country wouldn't work with us.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: mgod on September 07, 2008, 01:05:25 am
Berolzheimer wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 21:19


We are, as you mentioned, *currently* the most powerful nation on earth.

Seems to me China is. They own the biggest piece of us, more than we do. We're a subsidiary of many nation's economies at this point. Not much power in that.

DS

PS - Mr. Grant - you're a boor. And a bore. Too bad your faith hasn't improved your character. And character does count, after all, doesn't it?
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 07, 2008, 01:05:31 am
maxim wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 23:52


"I know that may mean little to some anti-war folks here, but without them, you'd be speaking German."

without the anti-war folks???




No, without wars.  We might all be blonde-haired blue-eyed.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: mgod on September 07, 2008, 01:08:33 am
grant richard wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 22:05


No, without wars.  We might all be blonde-haired blue-eyed.

That's lame in the extreme. And not very bright.

DS
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: maxim on September 07, 2008, 01:15:23 am
grant may be getting invasion and resistance mixed up...
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 07, 2008, 01:42:54 am
maxim wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 00:15

grant may be getting invasion and resistance mixed up...


but war none-the-less
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 07, 2008, 01:44:15 am
mgod wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 00:08

grant richard wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 22:05


No, without wars.  We might all be blonde-haired blue-eyed.

That's lame in the extreme. And not very bright.

DS


History is lame?  Didn't realize it'd been quite so long.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: i dig music on September 07, 2008, 01:45:44 am
maxim wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 00:15

grant may be getting invasion and resistance mixed up...



Grant has a lot of things mixed up, but then again it makes sense.......McCain and camp is mixed up. They can't seem to get their story straight. It might be because they don't have one, but there is always a few out there that buy into non-substance and out right lies. I guess grant can't help himself, especially now that he has boxed himself into a corner just like McCain did with the moose slasher SP and his "stolen" change platform. I guess it still stands, Barack should at least feel somewhat flattered that the republicans have stolen that platform, only to come out and say it was theirs to begin with.

Yes Grant, your people don't have an original thought or emotion to contribute, but they sure do make it sound like they do.

How about yourself?

Or, are you completely like them...bait and switch, shift and dodge, lie, cheat and deflect blame and responsibility until it suits your needs?

Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 07, 2008, 01:53:51 am
i dig music wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 00:45



Or, are you completely like them...bait and switch, shift and dodge, lie, cheat and deflect blame and responsibility until it suits your needs?




Is there ANYTHING to blame?  Nobody has wronged me here.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 07, 2008, 01:57:10 am
i dig music wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 00:45

especially now that he has boxed himself into a corner



OK, physically laughing now.

What corner?  I'm simply trying to piss you guys off.  It's fun!  

Barry was the only one who picked up on it, and when I told you guys I wasn't, you bought it.

Just like true liberals.

I guess my lie makes me a republican then.  Bring on the slaughter.


"I did not have sexual relations with that woman."  -Democrat
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: YZ on September 07, 2008, 03:21:50 am
grant richard wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 01:47


Stop it, you're making this too much fun for me.

I have to stop right here...for fear of laughing my lungs out.



No, you stopped there because you simply have no reply to any of the points I raised.

And totally missed the end of my post, which was a sincere proposition by one who believed that you were also sincere when you said you were looking for a choice.

The "I'm just joking" line is just an excuse for the lack of arguments.

And I'm not laughing at you, because your behavior in this thread is a sad thing to watch.


Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 07, 2008, 03:26:54 am
YZ wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 02:21

The "I'm just joking" line is just an excuse for the lack of arguments.




No man.  I'm really getting a kick out of this.

Don't ruin it for me Wink.

Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 07, 2008, 03:28:00 am
YZ wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 02:21



And I'm not laughing at you, because your behavior in this thread is a sad thing to watch.



Behavior?  I thought this was the saloon man.  Gloves off right?!?!
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: YZ on September 07, 2008, 03:43:52 am
grant richard wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 04:28

YZ wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 02:21



And I'm not laughing at you, because your behavior in this thread is a sad thing to watch.



Behavior?  I thought this was the saloon man.  Gloves off right?!?!


You missed my point entirely.

I'm not talking about politeness.

But anyway, saloon or not I still have my gloves on.

And whether you're jesting or not, I still suggest you do the "list" for your own personal use.

Think of where you'd like your country to be in the next decades;
Think about what are the real national issues;
Think about what are the real international issues.

Look at the answers each candidate proposes to such issues.

Then make a thoughtful choice.

Whatever that ends up being.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 07, 2008, 08:50:05 am
YZ wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 02:43

I still suggest you do the "list" for your own personal use.


Noted.  I will.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: ssltech on September 07, 2008, 09:52:59 am
grant richard wrote

...but without them, you'd be speaking German.


...And if it wasn't for the French, YOU would still be speaking English.

Keith
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 07, 2008, 10:12:14 am
ssltech wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 08:52

grant richard wrote

...but without them, you'd be speaking German.


...And if it wasn't for the French, YOU would still be speaking English.

Keith


O...K...I was speaking of war in general...
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: ssltech on September 07, 2008, 10:14:01 am
..And I was making the point that you raise an oversimplified and FAR too-often fallacy.

Keith
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: mgod on September 07, 2008, 10:33:54 am
grant richard wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 22:44


History is lame?  Didn't realize it'd been quite so long.


Like I said - not very bright. Behaving exactly like a product of Republican era lack-of-education.

This is the first time I've ever seen anyone start a thread just to demonstrate smarminess and dullness, while at the same time showing us a perfect example of using the internets in a futile attempt to glorify his own sense of how "clever" he is. A much smarter guy than you once observed that "there's a fine line between clever and stupid."

I'm with Barry. I suggest everyone block this clown - then a conversation can be had on the topic. He has nothing to say on it. But before you do, listen to his tunes for some perspective.

DS
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: rankus on September 07, 2008, 01:22:31 pm


Troll thread

Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 07, 2008, 02:08:06 pm
mgod wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 09:33

But before you do, listen to his tunes for some perspective.



I hope you enjoy them!
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 07, 2008, 02:11:05 pm
rankus wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 12:22



Troll thread




I don't think anybody here is hiding under a rock.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 07, 2008, 02:24:10 pm
mgod wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 09:33

Behaving exactly like a product of Republican era lack-of-education.


Are you implying that only Democrats know how to educate people?  

If so, you're implying that everybody who went to school under a republican president is an idiot.  

I think there might be millions of people who would disagree with you.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: seedyunderbelly.com on September 07, 2008, 03:21:11 pm
Grant,  

with all Due respect,  Are you playing around  or are you serious?

YZ,  I am here in USA I think I speak for many of us when I welcome the international conversation.  

-j
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: i dig music on September 07, 2008, 03:48:05 pm
seedyunderbelly.com wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 14:21

Grant,  

with all Due respect,  Are you playing around  or are you serious?

-j


I don't think Grant understands what he is doing here.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 07, 2008, 03:50:32 pm
seedyunderbelly.com wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 14:21

Grant,  

with all Due respect,  Are you playing around  or are you serious?

YZ,  I am here in USA I think I speak for many of us when I welcome the international conversation.  

-j



I've now said it a couple of times...

I'm having fun man.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: YZ on September 07, 2008, 03:57:08 pm
seedyunderbelly.com wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 16:21


YZ,  I am here in USA I think I speak for many of us when I welcome the international conversation.  

-j


Thanks, J.

Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Edvaard on September 07, 2008, 05:29:08 pm
mgod wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 10:33



Like I said - not very bright. Behaving exactly like a product of Republican era lack-of-education.

DS



I hear what you are saying, but I don't know if lack of education is putting  proper ascertainment to the affair.

"Utter disdain for anything that smells of thoughtfulness or consideration for anything not in your own personal interest" can be attained with decent, even "better" education.

It's no small comment on this society, at least in the US, when school budgets consistently cut funds and classes for music or foreign languages, and consistently increase funds and add new programs for athletics.

They still teach math and history.

What they want you to understand, however much "better education" and "no child left behind" can accomplish the task, is that most of whom you meet in the real world are obstacles to be overcome, and it's your family against their's.

Over aggressiveness is what's being promoted in our schools, but that's OK, because we now can just put kids on drugs if it get's out of hand. They are now expulsing kids from schools if the parents refuse to put them on drugs, but hey, how about the game coming up? We gonna kick their ass!

Such a perfectly Orwellian  contradiction, and so well suited to the task of aggressively mindless and Chauvinistic conformity.









Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: mgod on September 07, 2008, 08:53:01 pm
Edvaard wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 14:29

Over aggressiveness is what's being promoted in our schools, but that's OK, because we now can just put kids on drugs if it get's out of hand. They are now expulsing kids from schools if the parents refuse to put them on drugs, but hey, how about the game coming up? We gonna kick their ass!

Such a perfectly Orwellian  contradiction, and so well suited to the task of aggressively mindless and Chauvinistic conformity.

Good for building killers too. Eisenhower was more right on than he knew. Of course by modern standards, Eisenhower was practically left. Imagine a president warning the nation against the influence of war profiteers on our government and civil institutions.

DS
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: maxim on September 07, 2008, 09:23:00 pm
"I don't think anybody here is hiding under a rock."



once again, you're confused

trolls don't leave under rocks, they leave under bridges

you're thinking of spongebob's pal patrick, who is a starfish


half-baked opinions based on misinformation

i think i know why you're voting for sarah palin...
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: M Carter on September 07, 2008, 09:23:34 pm
I'm an independent (although NYC's laws make it necessary to register with a party if you want to vote in that party's primary, so currently I'm a registered democrat.  Use that knowledge to unveil any perceived bias in this post).  I encourage everyone to vote, since I feel it's one of the few rights we have in this country that is also a responsibility.

I admittedly haven't read all 11 pages worth of posts, there have been a few really well thought out responses, but more than a few swipes aimed at a candidate or viewpoint people don't agree with.

I, like many of you, have followed this election pretty closely.  While I'm not political science major, this election can be broken out into a few different issues.  Discussing and understanding how we all feel about those issues is a good way to kick off a productive conversation.

Sadly, religion is something that has plagued the democratic process for years, and to me it's pretty frustrating.  The constitution is a pretty clever (and ahead of its time) document.  The intent of 'freedom of religion' and 'separation of church and state' were probably put in there not just for civil liberties sake, but also to negate the presence of religion into the electoral process.  The fact that we're all free to worship however, whatever, and whomever we choose should make faith a null factor and a non-issue in how effective someone is to lead the country.  That makes it difficult for me to grasp the importance people place on candidates' religious views.

For discussion purposes, how about taking religion off the table and talking about some of the more tangible issues facing this country?  I'll throw a couple out there and let's talk about how we feel.  Maybe we'll all discover some things we didn't understand.

1.  Healthcare
2.  Education
3.  Foreign Relations
4.  Corporate Interests
5.  Free Trade and Open Markets
6.  Tax reform
7.  Maintaining Our Civil Liberties

I've focused on things that directly affect Americans, and these are the things that are important to me in this election.

Personally, I think we can knock the energy policy off the list.  If someone just had the stones to end any tax subsidies (corn ethanol has to be one of the biggest failures of the last 5 years) and tax loopholes (such as the ones given to Exxon to create jobs years ago and are still in place today), the market would find a solution pretty quickly once the winners in the contest aren't preemptively picked and propped up.

I've also taken abortion off the list.  I lean pro-life, but I can't say I have the authority to push my beliefs on other people.  I also don't want my tax dollars paying for someone else's abortion.  Social conservatives really owe it to themselves to look at things with results in mind.  When you criminalize certain things (such as abortion, guns, drugs, or prostitution), you just open up a less safe and wholly damaging black market for it while forfeiting any type of regulation on it .  Banning abortion could easily lead to more unsafe abortions nationwide and certainly more late term abortions due to a lack of regulation on it.  I can't fathom making my voting decision on that basis, and the country is too large and diverse to make blanket decisions on divisive moral issues.  

Thoughts?



Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: garret on September 07, 2008, 10:19:07 pm
Grant.. I'm not going to wade into this. But I will say this.. I believe you're a young guy.  Can't remember how young, but I remember being impressed by the quality of your songwriting at such a young age.

I'll wager this.   At your age, you may not know your own political beliefs...  You may be saying "I'm voting McCain" the same way some some might say "I drink Coke!" or "I drive a Ford."

I.e. you chosen to associate yourself with a brand (The Republican Party) that you find appealing.

I'm curious.   Fill our the Political Compass survey, and post your results.   I'd bet you are less conservative than you think you are.   Most Americans are.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

When you're done, compare you numbers to these references:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2
http://www.politicalcompass.org/usprimaries2008


Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: John Ivan on September 07, 2008, 10:24:37 pm
MDM, wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 10:04

Speaking of presidential candidates, how is McCain model SIGNIFICANTLY different from Obama model, anyway?

aren't they owned and produced by the same company?

I mean what's the use of arguing?

you vote for the one who you like more emotionally, but in the end the results are going to be the same, just you watch..

Wasn't it Bush Jr. who got elected saying he was AGAINST nationbuilding?? ha!



Um,, ah  um.. NO! They are not the same.. Really.. Why don't you come stay over here in this wacky place for a few years.. Walk around and talk to people..

You sound like a BEAR-RINGER salesman to me.. "it's all the same, why spend the money?"

Ivan....................
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 07, 2008, 11:09:04 pm
garret wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 21:19

Grant.. I'm not going to wade into this. But I will say this.. I believe you're a young guy.  Can't remember how young, but I remember being impressed by the quality of your songwriting at such a young age.

I'll wager this.   At your age, you may not know your own political beliefs...  You may be saying "I'm voting McCain" the same way some some might say "I drink Coke!" or "I drive a Ford."

I.e. you chosen to associate yourself with a brand (The Republican Party) that you find appealing.

I'm curious.   Fill our the Political Compass survey, and post your results.   I'd bet you are less conservative than you think you are.   Most Americans are.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

When you're done, compare you numbers to these references:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2
http://www.politicalcompass.org/usprimaries2008





Thanks Garret.  I'm quite curious to take the test myself.  I will do so.  Thanks for the tip!
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: John Ivan on September 07, 2008, 11:34:28 pm
grant richard wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 01:57

i dig music wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 00:45

especially now that he has boxed himself into a corner



OK, physically laughing now.

What corner?  I'm simply trying to piss you guys off.  It's fun!  

Barry was the only one who picked up on it, and when I told you guys I wasn't, you bought it.

Just like true liberals.

I guess my lie makes me a republican then.  Bring on the slaughter.


"I did not have sexual relations with that woman."  -Democrat



The problem you have though, is that starting a thread like this just to screw with people is a huge waste of time, energy, and so on.. Plus, it's a dead give away that you are lost. It really is.

You are pulling a Rush... He would do this kind of thing..  Why?

I think it's because when it comes right down to it, you don't have anything else to say. Instead of starting a thread that could produce real opinions on the issues, you start a "gotcha" thread.. You STILL want to know what's going on for real, because you don't know.. But you need this shitty thread to get the info because admitting you're somewhat lost and need to hear all this stuff, is out of the question..

This is a very common trait among people who call themselves conservatives these days. There are certain subjects that are off limits.. Period. The idea that you are searching should not scare you. You should not be ashamed at ALL of not knowing for sure where you stand. This is normal, especially for relatively young people who already hold some strong beliefs on certain subjects.

About this War thing. If you ask, I think you will find that most Democrats are not "Anti War".. We're just anti stupid. These are different things. I happen to believe that if enough people want steady peace in this world, we can at least make War exceedingly rare. Certainly, the war we are now engaged in was completely unnecessary and will be proven through history to be a huge mistake for which we will pay AS A WORLD for many years to come..

It's about having people in charge who are worthy of such heady decision making. It could be, sadly, that there will be times we need to, or BELIEVE we need to go kill people to keep from being killed ourselves. It's for this reason and many others that whoever sits in the White House should be an exceptional person. Not only do they need to be smart. but they need wisdom. Wisdom is not always the reliable child of experience. It is hard to say where truly worldly wisdom comes from but I do think it's interesting that the word "Temperament" was in Barack Obamas' speech. I think we can hear, see and feel real wisdom when it shows up. And I think it just showed up, and it came from Chicago this time...

McCains' story is interesting and compelling but frankly, it's not a story that instills a sense of confidence. Balls? Yes. Great tenacity and human Spirit? Yes. A general sense of fairness? Perhaps, although this seems to have left the room in Johns' case.. Lately.

The things I see in John McCain are:

A. Talking about only a few issues that are the least of our worries, yet being held high as if they matter, to distract us from the gigantic list of problems that DO matter.

B. Picking a Female running mate in what can only be described as an act of total desperation toward getting the Ultra Right vote. They may have even been dumb enough to believe she could bring Women, just because they are Women.. What dose THIS say about Johns' view of Women?

C. Continuing to express the supposed wisdom of invading Iraq, and refusing to talk about what this really means to the country and the world. So Far, he's holding hands with GWB on this. YIKES!!

You can vote for him if you want to, but my personal opinion is that this will be proof that you are terribly uninformed, or just mean.

The things I see in Barack Obama are:

A. A willingness to take in information that he believes he disagrees with, in an effort to understand the truth. Knowing the whole time that even if he doesn't change his mind, he will be smarter because he will be closer to understanding what drives the opposing view point. {very rare these days!}

B. A belief that most people want the same things and are willing to drop their ideology to the side if someone shows leadership in this direction. {Stand on principle but pick your battles carefully for the betterment of all.}

C.An ability to take in huge amounts of information and understand the underlying reasons for it's existence in the first place. {some people still care about history and the rule of law. In other words, how we got here and where are we going as a result. In aviation, this is called energy management.}

D. A youthful optimism and a belief that the well being of others in the world matters just as much as the well being of Americans. {We are all on the same rock and we, as Americans, can't be of any use to anyone in our current state.}

E. He can not wait to talk about every issue facing the country, in real detail. He just can't wait.

I think I'm gonna vote for this guy.

Ivan.................
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Larrchild on September 07, 2008, 11:46:03 pm
The only nugget of wisdom I can add after 50 trips around the sun, is that if a voice coming from your dashboard tells you to vote for someone, it's probably the wrong person.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: John Ivan on September 07, 2008, 11:47:50 pm
Larrchild wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 23:46

The only nugget of wisdom I can add after 50 trips around the sun, is that if a voice coming from your dashboard tells you to vote for someone, it's probably the wrong person.

Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing

Very nice!!
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: maxim on September 07, 2008, 11:57:39 pm
especially if the radio isn't even on....
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grizzly joe on September 08, 2008, 12:14:40 am
Hell of a cat fight you got going here, Grant.

Why don't we all come together and realize that, regardless of who is elected, this nation and world as a whole is ending right now, so there is no worry.

-Joe
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 08, 2008, 12:29:56 am
John Ivan wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 22:34

grant richard wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 01:57

i dig music wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 00:45

especially now that he has boxed himself into a corner



OK, physically laughing now.

What corner?  I'm simply trying to piss you guys off.  It's fun!  

Barry was the only one who picked up on it, and when I told you guys I wasn't, you bought it.

Just like true liberals.

I guess my lie makes me a republican then.  Bring on the slaughter.


"I did not have sexual relations with that woman."  -Democrat



The problem you have though, is that starting a thread like this just to screw with people is a huge waste of time, energy, and so on.. Plus, it's a dead give away that you are lost. It really is.

You are pulling a Rush... He would do this kind of thing..  Why?

I think it's because when it comes right down to it, you don't have anything else to say. Instead of starting a thread that could produce real opinions on the issues, you start a "gotcha" thread.. You STILL want to know what's going on for real, because you don't know.. But you need this shitty thread to get the info because admitting you're somewhat lost and need to hear all this stuff, is out of the question..

This is a very common trait among people who call themselves conservatives these days. There are certain subjects that are off limits.. Period. The idea that you are searching should not scare you. You should not be ashamed at ALL of not knowing for sure where you stand. This is normal, especially for relatively young people who already hold some strong beliefs on certain subjects.

About this War thing. If you ask, I think you will find that most Democrats are not "Anti War".. We're just anti stupid. These are different things. I happen to believe that if enough people want steady peace in this world, we can at least make War exceedingly rare. Certainly, the war we are now engaged in was completely unnecessary and will be proven through history to be a huge mistake for which we will pay AS A WORLD for many years to come..

It's about having people in charge who are worthy of such heady decision making. It could be, sadly, that there will be times we need to, or BELIEVE we need to go kill people to keep from being killed ourselves. It's for this reason and many others that whoever sits in the White House should be an exceptional person. Not only do they need to be smart. but they need wisdom. Wisdom is not always the reliable child of experience. It is hard to say where truly worldly wisdom comes from but I do think it's interesting that the word "Temperament" was in Barack Obamas' speech. I think we can hear, see and feel real wisdom when it shows up. And I think it just showed up, and it came from Chicago this time...

McCains' story is interesting and compelling but frankly, it's not a story that instills a sense of confidence. Balls? Yes. Great tenacity and human Spirit? Yes. A general sense of fairness? Perhaps, although this seems to have left the room in Johns' case.. Lately.

The things I see in John McCain are:

A. Talking about only a few issues that are the least of our worries, yet being held high as if they matter, to distract us from the gigantic list of problems that DO matter.

B. Picking a Female running mate in what can only be described as an act of total desperation toward getting the Ultra Right vote. They may have even been dumb enough to believe she could bring Women, just because they are Women.. What dose THIS say about Johns' view of Women?

C. Continuing to express the supposed wisdom of invading Iraq, and refusing to talk about what this really means to the country and the world. So Far, he's holding hands with GWB on this. YIKES!!

You can vote for him if you want to, but my personal opinion is that this will be proof that you are terribly uninformed, or just mean.

The things I see in Barack Obama are:

A. A willingness to take in information that he believes he disagrees with, in an effort to understand the truth. Knowing the whole time that even if he doesn't change his mind, he will be smarter because he will be closer to understanding what drives the opposing view point. {very rare these days!}

B. A belief that most people want the same things and are willing to drop their ideology to the side if someone shows leadership in this direction. {Stand on principle but pick your battles carefully for the betterment of all.}

C.An ability to take in huge amounts of information and understand the underlying reasons for it's existence in the first place. {some people still care about history and the rule of law. In other words, how we got here and where are we going as a result. In aviation, this is called energy management.}

D. A youthful optimism and a belief that the well being of others in the world matters just as much as the well being of Americans. {We are all on the same rock and we, as Americans, can't be of any use to anyone in our current state.}

E. He can not wait to talk about every issue facing the country, in real detail. He just can't wait.

I think I'm gonna vote for this guy.

Ivan.................


No, you've got it all wrong.  
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 08, 2008, 12:31:06 am
grizzly joe wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 23:14

Hell of a cat fight you got going here, Grant.

Why don't we all come together and realize that, regardless of who is elected, this nation and world as a whole is ending right now, so there is no worry.

-Joe


First real insight that makes any sense.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: maxim on September 08, 2008, 12:32:48 am
the collider from the other thread will cause a giant black hole to appear in the middle of the earth, and we will disappear up our own asses...
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Larrchild on September 08, 2008, 01:59:40 am
index.php/fa/9877/0/
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: bigaudioblowhard on September 08, 2008, 02:20:06 am
yo Grant, you wanna vote for a Party that dragged us into a trillion dollar war under false pretenses?

health care any more "affordable" over the last 8 years?

if for no other reasons these guys gots to go

vote your wallet

bab
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 08, 2008, 02:33:08 am
bigaudioblowhard wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 01:20

yo Grant, you wanna vote for a Party that dragged us into a trillion dollar war under false pretenses?

health care any more "affordable" over the last 8 years?

if for no other reasons these guys gots to go

vote your wallet

bab


good points
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: mgod on September 08, 2008, 02:52:49 am
grant richard wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 11:08

mgod wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 09:33

But before you do, listen to his tunes for some perspective.

I hope you enjoy them!

Unusually and even spectacularly unoriginal and uninspired. But no one ever had to be good to justify owning a computer and a guitar. There are plenty of people bagging groceries at my local Ralph's who do the same and as well. Its a good job.

DS
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: mgod on September 08, 2008, 02:59:24 am
M Carter wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 18:23

I've also taken abortion off the list.  I lean pro-life, but I can't say I have the authority to push my beliefs on other people.  I also don't want my tax dollars paying for someone else's abortion.  Social conservatives really owe it to themselves to look at things with results in mind.  When you criminalize certain things (such as abortion, guns, drugs, or prostitution), you just open up a less safe and wholly damaging black market for it while forfeiting any type of regulation on it .  Banning abortion could easily lead to more unsafe abortions nationwide and certainly more late term abortions due to a lack of regulation on it.  I can't fathom making my voting decision on that basis, and the country is too large and diverse to make blanket decisions on divisive moral issues.  

Anyone see Biden this morning on Meet the Press? He addressed this directly with much the same position, acknowledging the controversy historically within the catholic church about this issue, going back to Thomas Aquinas. Stated himself unequivocally anti-abortion as a practicing catholic but understood that where people stand on this issue has everything to do with how they see their faith, whatever it is, and stressing the importance of not having government impose his version of catholicism on others.

DS
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: mgod on September 08, 2008, 03:01:11 am
grant richard wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 22:57


I'm simply trying to piss you guys off.  It's fun!  

Barry was the only one who picked up on it, and when I told you guys I wasn't, you bought it.

There you have it - a perfect banning statement. Another classic flame-out.

DS
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Barry Hufker on September 08, 2008, 03:10:32 am
Grant,

I thought I'd check in to see how this train-wreck of a thread was doing.

I think you've done a very sad thing.  You have baited and ridiculed the fine people of this forum.  These are people I've known for a number of years now through correspondence and phone calls.  These are people who would drop everything if they thought they could help someone.  Through your "joke", you've shown great immaturity.  You have belittled people who have hung on in the thread in the hope they might make a real contact with you as a person.

You have squandered good will, the chance of real friendship, solid business relationships, the opportunity to gain real insight and so much more.

If banning you is being proposed, I will back it if I'm asked how I feel about it.  And that is really sad.  So much would have been given to you through the people you meet here and you threw it all away for a cheap joke.

Barry
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: rankus on September 08, 2008, 03:47:45 am

+1

Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: maxim on September 08, 2008, 06:20:38 am
lighten up, you guys

as larry said: thank god, it's only a motion picture....
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 08, 2008, 06:39:38 am
Barry Hufker wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 02:10

Grant,

I thought I'd check in to see how this train-wreck of a thread was doing.

I think you've done a very sad thing.  You have baited and ridiculed the fine people of this forum.  These are people I've known for a number of years now through correspondence and phone calls.  These are people who would drop everything if they thought they could help someone.  Through your "joke", you've shown great immaturity.  You have belittled people who have hung on in the thread in the hope they might make a real contact with you as a person.

You have squandered good will, the chance of real friendship, solid business relationships, the opportunity to gain real insight and so much more.

If banning you is being proposed, I will back it if I'm asked how I feel about it.  And that is really sad.  So much would have been given to you through the people you meet here and you threw it all away for a cheap joke.

Barry




I guess apologies are in order then.  I did not realize my having fun in the saloon would cause such grief.

I'm sorry.  No better way to say it.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 08, 2008, 06:40:56 am
maxim wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 05:20

lighten up, you guys



Thanks for that.

Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: John Ivan on September 08, 2008, 08:31:32 am
What do I ave wrong Grant?

You think this is all funny..

I think this means that something is wrong with you.

You would vote for McCain.

I think this makes you stupid and mean..

The fact that you wasted the time of all these cats , means that you have no idea at all what we are facing.. You don't know how bad your life could get. You're an American. You've never had it "bad".. Really.. You are a two or three issue voter.. Man, is THAT ever stupid... Old Johnny comes out and says three lines about Baby Killers and he's got your vote.. He hangs a mental case Governor on the bill and everyone goes nuts.. Why? Because she doesn't own a Penis?
You people are amazing..

Lazy and stupid..

What am I wrong about Grant?

Ivan........................
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Jessica A. Engle on September 08, 2008, 10:06:24 am
Barry Hufker wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 02:10

Grant,

I thought I'd check in to see how this train-wreck of a thread was doing.

I think you've done a very sad thing.  You have baited and ridiculed the fine people of this forum.  These are people I've known for a number of years now through correspondence and phone calls.  These are people who would drop everything if they thought they could help someone.  Through your "joke", you've shown great immaturity.  You have belittled people who have hung on in the thread in the hope they might make a real contact with you as a person.

You have squandered good will, the chance of real friendship, solid business relationships, the opportunity to gain real insight and so much more.

If banning you is being proposed, I will back it if I'm asked how I feel about it.  And that is really sad.  So much would have been given to you through the people you meet here and you threw it all away for a cheap joke.

Barry




Thank you for taking a moment to sum up what is going on here so eloquently.  And for being civil and objective about it, as well.  This thread should have ended at post number five.  Everything that needed to be said about it had already been said by that point.

Jess



Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: mgod on September 08, 2008, 10:08:49 am
John Ivan wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 05:31


I think this means that something is wrong with you.

That much is obvious. What a way to use one's time. Especially for someone espousing faith.

John Ivan wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 05:31


The fact that you wasted the time of all these cats , ...

Ivan........................

I don't think my time has been wasted. Despite the smug non-entity who has struggled and failed to make himself the center of this, I've enjoyed, as usual, conversing with the rest of you.

DS
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: cerberus on September 08, 2008, 02:41:13 pm
i agree with dan (and others)... grant isn't very good at trolling.

jeff dinces
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: bblackwood on September 08, 2008, 03:38:32 pm
While we generally let things go well beyond what we will in the rest of the forums, the fact that this turned out to be simple trolling pisses me off. I expect more from posters here and am *this* close to banning the OP from the Saloon permanently.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: danickstr on September 08, 2008, 04:52:02 pm
This reminds me of the proverb about the boy who cried troll....
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: John Ivan on September 08, 2008, 04:57:48 pm
And I know I've been a bit harsh. But it's worth pointing out that the subject matter we are dealing with here could not be more serious.. At least, this is my opinion.

If Grant wants to discus this stuff seriously, that would be great. But to be simply trolling for heated responses and not trying at all to get to the bottom of who the candidates are and why we may or may not be voting for them, is just lame.

After all this, I still don't have any idea why Grant might be voting for McCain.. It would be good to hear the reasons. If he has reasons, that's fine but so far it's just been about how bad "Liberals" are.

Ivan.......................
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grantis on September 08, 2008, 06:24:39 pm
bblackwood wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 14:38

While we generally let things go well beyond what we will in the rest of the forums, the fact that this turned out to be simple trolling pisses me off. I expect more from posters here and am *this* close to banning the OP from the Saloon permanently.


As the poster before you said...I'm not very good at trolling...I'm not even sure what it is...maybe that's why I suck at it.

Again, very sorry.

Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: garret on September 08, 2008, 07:54:05 pm
An internet troll is someone who posts inflammatory things just to get attention, and to get a rise out of people.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_Internet
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: YZ on September 08, 2008, 08:25:31 pm
Hi Grant,

I'd suggest you watch the 20 minute presentation here:

http://www.storyofstuff.com/

to get a "big picture" view of the linking of economics, politics, environment, vested interests, and how this affects everybody everywhere.

It is far from complete, even oversimplified at times, but IMVHO it is a good starting point.

I hope you'll enjoy watching it.



Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: mgod on September 08, 2008, 09:15:51 pm
To some extent this thread reveals the stock right wing approach to comedy - high-school level derision of people for your own amusement and to get your fellow c-students to snigger. As practiced by professional media comedians Limbaugh and O'Reilly. We knew these buttheads in high school - they don't grow up or get serious and someone or something eventually kicks their asses - usually life itself. Look at the Fox guys. Addiction and sexual harassment issues - like permanent 12-year-olds. As they age they get bitter when the humor wears off and they can't escape the realization that the joke's on them for wasting their own life in struggling to make others feel as bad they do. But they earn their self-loathing.

Then you got the real comedians, who manage to swing wide, Stewart, Colbert, Chris Rock, Lewis Black and the SNL folks who take on everyone, all the Clintons and the variety of Bushes we've had to deal with.

The difference is, the good comedians point out the absurdity of our situation, but the Limbaughs and O'Reilly's and now our friend Grant struggle to make the real discourse more cartoon-land than anything else. They can only thrive in cartoon discourse.

DS
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Hallams on September 08, 2008, 09:16:34 pm
I think Grant may be *this* close to learning something profound, and for this possibility alone i hope he is not banned......yet.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: maxim on September 08, 2008, 09:28:53 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6iAaxOAHCM
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grizzly joe on September 10, 2008, 12:05:17 am
How about we all pretend to be Grant's politics professor(S)   Laughing

It's okay to vote for whoever you want.  It doesn't change your personality at all, unless your life is based on politics.  My mother voted for Bush... I was extremely angry, but I love my mother.

Besides,  I'd prefer Mickey Mouse over both the candidates right now...


And to everyone who is mad about anyone voting for McCain, look on the bright side (from your grass, that is): McCain is in his 70's, is fat, and has cancer.  He can't last long either way....

Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Berolzheimer on September 10, 2008, 12:09:54 am
grizzly joe wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 21:05

How about we all pretend to be Grant's politics professor(S)   Laughing



And to everyone who is mad about anyone voting for McCain, look on the bright side (from your grass, that is): McCain is in his 70's, is fat, and has cancer.  He can't last long either way....





And that's why we're incensed about Palin.


Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: seedyunderbelly.com on September 10, 2008, 02:01:59 am
I just thought of something..  

It is funny McCain made that comparison about Obama being a celebrity Like Britney and Paris.

Then He picks Palin to have a "Showgirl" on his ticket..  Really  who is more concerned with and "Using" Fame?

Imagine having that B*tch lording over you with her oppressive views....wow.....

People who thought it couldn't get worse than GW will have something on there hands if McCain gives his Vp a shot at it THrough folly or through being unable to finish his term...

I hope that we do not see this come to fruition.  

Think how close we are to having President Palin preside...
VP is not "sideshow"'
















Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: seedyunderbelly.com on September 10, 2008, 02:03:26 am
Or in this case freakshow slideshow...
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: Rader Ranch on September 10, 2008, 08:44:08 am
McCain's wife is a drifter.
Title: Re: I'm Voting McCain
Post by: grizzly joe on September 10, 2008, 11:35:23 am
Berolzheimer wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 23:09

grizzly joe wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 21:05

How about we all pretend to be Grant's politics professor(S)   Laughing



And to everyone who is mad about anyone voting for McCain, look on the bright side (from your grass, that is): McCain is in his 70's, is fat, and has cancer.  He can't last long either way....





And that's why we're incensed about Palin.






Lol  Smile