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R/E/P => R/E/P Archives => R/E/P Saloon => Topic started by: J.J. Blair on August 29, 2008, 10:43:29 am

Title: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 29, 2008, 10:43:29 am
Well, way to break the news cycle being about Obama's speech.

She's been governor of Alaska for less than two years, and was mayor of a small town in Alaska before that, I believe.  One heartbeat away from the presidency, with a guy that's looks like he was revived form the dead.  

Can't wait to see the Biden v. Palin debates.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Jay Kadis on August 29, 2008, 10:45:29 am
At least is isn't Carly "I destroyed HP" Fiorina.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: ktownson on August 29, 2008, 10:56:16 am
"I'll see your inexperienced African-American male candidate and raise you one white, inexperienced female candidate."

A desperate attempt to woo the disgruntled Hillary-ites before they fully digest Obama?

Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Barry Hufker on August 29, 2008, 11:25:22 am
The folks who wanted Hillary aren't going to be tricked or swayed in the least.  Wanting a female president, they are obviously also progressive so Obama is still a good choice for them.  Just because they aren't getting Hilary in the White House doesn't mean they're going to become insane.

Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Andy Peters on August 29, 2008, 11:25:48 am
ktownson wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 07:56

"I'll see your inexperienced African-American male candidate and raise you one white, inexperienced female candidate."

A desperate attempt to woo the disgruntled Hillary-ites before they fully digest Obama?


Those "disgruntled Hillary-ites" are Republican shills and a media creation. They don't actually exist.

Any female Democrat who'd consider voting for McCain because the alternative is not Hillary is clearly voting against her on best interests. (Just like any non-rich person who votes for McCain.)

-a
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 29, 2008, 11:35:54 am
Let's see: She's extremely pro-life.  She's pro gun, and an NRA member.  She's pro-drilling in ANWAR.  She raised taxes during the three years she was part time mayor of some bum fuck town, population 8,000.  She's under investigation for ethics by the state of Alaska.  

I love this pick!
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: ktownson on August 29, 2008, 11:46:23 am
This whole election is a media creation. I'm afraid I'm a full-bore cynic now.

The douche or the turd sandwich...does my vote count?
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Rader Ranch on August 29, 2008, 11:47:05 am
Trophy VP.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Rader Ranch on August 29, 2008, 12:07:20 pm
VPILF, lol (see vpilf.com).
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: jimlongo on August 29, 2008, 01:02:47 pm
Pretty sad for McNasty that he still has to try to solidify the right wing-nuts of his party.  Start the countdown to the first time he goes off on this trollop.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Daniel Farris on August 29, 2008, 01:24:04 pm
Either she was the 9th caller, or she won an essay contest.

I can't wait for the VP debates.

DF
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Daniel Farris on August 29, 2008, 01:28:18 pm
J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 08:35

She raised taxes during the three years she was part time mayor of some bum fuck town, population 8,000.


It's population 5,000.

What are you? A spin machine for the republicans?

Eighteen months ago, she was mayor of a town with 5000 people. She has a bachelor's from Iowa.

I'm convinced this is a prank.

DF
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: ktownson on August 29, 2008, 01:34:06 pm
It's 8,000 if you count the moose.


Is this like a "Northern Exposure" lost episode?
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Daniel Farris on August 29, 2008, 01:40:55 pm
The choice is such an insult to women.

The McCain campaign must really believe that women (particularly Hillary's disaffected supporters) would just vote for a vagina on a stick.

It's an incredibly dim choice.

If they MUST insult women, why not go with Kay Bailey Hutchinson?

DF
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: PRobb on August 29, 2008, 01:45:18 pm
Absolutely bizarre choice. The strongest card in McCain's hand was "Obama does not have enough experience to be president". He just flushed that card down the toilet. The job of the VP is to be ready to be president. If McCain thinks she's qualified he can't possibly continue to claim Obama isn't.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: amorris on August 29, 2008, 01:49:24 pm
Quote:

Well, way to break the news cycle being about Obama's speech.



exactly. a most excellent job of it as well.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: amorris on August 29, 2008, 01:51:07 pm
also, I thought CNN changed the format of their website this week, updated the fonts and framing,...no just giving HC the widest front page Ive ever seen. glad there's no bias.

and I guess they're back to normal today.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Jay Kadis on August 29, 2008, 01:56:06 pm
She even LOOKS a little like Dan Quayle.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Rader Ranch on August 29, 2008, 02:10:33 pm
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g233/CaughtBeatenOff/mccainpalin.jpg
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Berolzheimer on August 29, 2008, 02:14:56 pm
Rader Ranch wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 09:07

VPILF, lol (see vpilf.com).


Wow, that didn't take long.

I thought too that perhaps he's going after the supposed disgruntled Hillary supporters, in which case the Repubs have bought into their own fiction.


Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Berolzheimer on August 29, 2008, 02:16:45 pm
J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 08:35

Let's see: She's extremely pro-life.  She's pro gun, and an NRA member.  She's pro-drilling in ANWAR.  She raised taxes during the three years she was part time mayor of some bum fuck town, population 8,000.  She's under investigation for ethics by the state of Alaska.  

I love this pick!


Hey JJ, please don't use the term "pro-life".  We're all pro life, of course.  Call them what they are that's different than the general public, which is "anti -choice".
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Podgorny on August 29, 2008, 04:54:50 pm
Berolzheimer wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 13:16

Hey JJ, please don't use the term "pro-life".  We're all pro life, of course.  Call them what they are that's different than the general public, which is "anti -choice".



Right, because the latter description doesn't hold any implications either...
How about we keep this discussion on topic.




Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Berolzheimer on August 29, 2008, 05:19:38 pm
Podgorny wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 13:54

Berolzheimer wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 13:16

Hey JJ, please don't use the term "pro-life".  We're all pro life, of course.  Call them what they are that's different than the general public, which is "anti -choice".



Right, because the latter description doesn't hold any implications either...
How about we keep this discussion on topic.





As I see it that is right on topic.  By using their chosen and very propagandistic term "pro -life" you play into their agenda, implying that those of us who disagree with them are anti-life.  It's relevant to this discussion because as JJ pointed out it's part of Palin's platform.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: danickstr on August 29, 2008, 05:46:49 pm
What a cun-tree.  Shocked  (Use heavy accent ala Yakov Smirnoff)
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 29, 2008, 07:10:42 pm
If I were McLazarus, I'd have put it this way:
"FInally, a vice presidential candidate with a face you'd want to spooge on."
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Paul Cavins on August 29, 2008, 08:17:26 pm
Alright, you fucks, I'll bite. You need a little rightie spice in this discussion.


I want someone to tell me why Barrack Obama has more experience to be president than Sarah Palin.

Just tell me. She is a first term governor, meaning executive experience. He is a first term senator.

If Obama is so great and ready to be president, then why does his resume only equal (if that) Palin's?

Any assault on her experience is one on Obama's isn't it?

Rational thoughts, please.

PC
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Paul Cavins on August 29, 2008, 08:23:23 pm
index.php/fa/9810/0/
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 29, 2008, 08:25:40 pm
I wonder if anybody went with the headline "McCain taps Palin."

I'd tap it.

She's  a full on cougar.  Grrrrrrrr.....
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 29, 2008, 08:42:37 pm
Paul Cavins wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 17:17

I want someone to tell me why Barrack Obama has more experience to be president than Sarah Palin.


Well, let's just start with the experience of going from being an underpriviledged kid to being the head of Harvard Law Review.  

Also, when asked about her opinions on the Iraq war, she said, "I haven't really put much thought into it."  

Maybe she knows how to run the state of Alaska (so far), but he clearly has a better command of not only foreign policy.  He's been on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee as well as the committee for Homeland Security, and Veterans Affairs.

When he was a state senator, there he represented more people in his district than there are in the state of Alaska.  

He managed to run a campaign that vanquished the seemingly unbeatable Hillary Clinton, and got more votes in a primary than any other candidate in primary history.  

She was runner up to being Ms. Alaska, was part time mayor of a town of less than 10,000 and has 18 months under her belt as governor of the 4 least populous state in the nation.  Hey, if Ahnuld can be governor or California, I don;t know that being governor for a short period really impresses me that much.  It's a long way from Juneau to Washington.  

Does that answer your question?

This is pretty good, too.  Yeah, they are biased, but if it's what it looks like, he McLazarus might have an Agnew on his hands.  

 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/08/29/palin-corruption-investi gation/
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Paul Cavins on August 29, 2008, 09:14:17 pm
I don't doubt Barack's good personal story. Palin went from being a PTA hockey-mom to being governor. That's pretty good, isn't it?

He has done next to nothing on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

From Salon.com.
"Doubts about Barack Obama's presidential credentials have crystallized during the past two weeks over his stewardship of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee's Subcommittee on European Affairs, which has convened no policy hearings since he took over as its chairman last January. That startling fact, first uncovered by Steve Clemons, who blogs on the Washington Note, prompted acid comment in Europe about the Illinois senator's failure to visit the continent since assuming the committee post, and even speculation that he had never traveled there except for a short stopover in London."

Keep in mind that he has been in the Senate for a really short time, so a lack of accomplishment isn't a surprise.

He was in the Senate for about 150 days before running for president.  

Alaska's population is 670k, Delaware is 853k. Joe Biden eat your heart out on the train back to your house.

Obama ran Harvard Law Review, Palin has been governor of a state.

I heard about Palin's ex bro inlaw thing. Could be interesting.

I have a few in me. I'll try harder tomorrow.


PC





Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: C.O. Jones on August 29, 2008, 09:36:24 pm
J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 19:42

Paul Cavins wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 17:17

I want someone to tell me why Barrack Obama has more experience to be president than Sarah Palin.


Well, let's just start with the experience of going from being an underpriviledged kid to being the head of Harvard Law Review.


She's got  the experience of going from being the daughter of two schoolteachers to being the Governor of Alaska.


J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 19:42

Also, when asked about her opinions on the Iraq war, she said, "I haven't really put much thought into it."


She's been there and she's putting a son into it.  I'd wager she's thought about it.


J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 19:42

Maybe she knows how to run the state of Alaska (so far), but he clearly has a better command of not only foreign policy.  He's ben on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee as well as the committee for Homeland Security, and Veterans Affairs.


For 146 days.


J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 19:42

When he was a state senator, there he represented more people in his district than there are in the state of Alaska.


Taking courageous stands like "present".


J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 19:42

  He managed to run a campaign that vanquished the seemingly unbeatable Hillary Clinton, and got more votes in a primary than any other candidate in primary history.


Obama has run a great campaign.  But the media picked Mr. Obama, and beat Ms. Clinton for him.  Hillary's way more qualified to be the Democrat's offering for Chief Executive than Obama.


J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 19:42

She was runner up to being Ms. Alaska, was part time mayor of a town of less than 10,000 and has 18 months under her belt as governor of the 4 least populous state in the nation.  Hey, if Ahnuld can be governor or California, I don;t know that being governor for a short period really impresses me that much.  It's a long way from Juneau to Washington.


If a "community organizer" is a proper foundation for Commander-in-Chief, Palin's at-least-as-weighty resume should be a proper grounding for veep.  I think the "expeirence" argument is one the Obama camp will stay on for, oh, 'till about dawn tomorrow.

 It looks like this babe is scaring Democrats into losing all enthusiasm for breaking the "Glass Ceiling"

Jones

Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 29, 2008, 09:37:22 pm
Paul Cavins wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 18:14

I don't doubt Barack's good personal story. Palin went from being a PTA hockey-mom to being governor. That's pretty good, isn't it?


Of ALASKA.  Like I said, if Ahnuld can run California, any PTA mom can run Alaska.

Quote:

He has done next to nothing on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.


That's different than not having an understanding.  She has no foreign policy chops at all.

And the achievement of running the campaign and taking the nomination from Hillary, which nobody ever thought possible, is one of the greatest political feats of all time.  She's done nothing close to that.  

But her selection really says more about McCain.  Apparently, he only met her once.  You can't honestly tell me that this selection is nothing more than an attempt to please the religious right and try to pull in disaffected Hillary voters.  It's so transparent, it's not even funny.  If this is the type of thought he puts into matters of this gravity, it's a bad sign.  

You have a guy who is 72, four time Melanoma survivor, picking somebody with next to no political chops, and certainly zero national political chops, to be next in line.  As I said, Juneau is a long way from Washington.  Hell, it's even a long way from Springfield.  I'm from Chicago.  My dad wrote laws that still stand in Illinois.  That's a fucking cut throat place.  Not only is she unlikely capable of dealing with international affairs, I doubt she's ready negotiate with Congress.  
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: organica on August 29, 2008, 09:47:20 pm
I predict that SP will attract quite a few independent voters . They will feel like there's actually  a choice somehow . Not to mention the vpilf vote that will no doubt prefer her over Biden .

It's an interesting choice ......... I think she does have more time under her skirt as an elected official then BO does . They're both pretty close to equal there , but since BO's running for "prez" , SP's running for "VP"  , in my mind the "experience comparison" ought to be a less talked about topic  soon if BO's team and Democratic Party people in general don't want to look  stupid .
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: jimlongo on August 29, 2008, 09:52:02 pm
it's just dawned on me that McNasty has decided to pick the most inexperienced person he could possibly find in the United States (well she also had to be pro-life, NRA member, and beauty queen contestant), so that when everyone crows about her inexperience he could finally say, "see, I told you, inexperience is a bad thing, you've all just confirmed it!"

Seriously the republicans can spin this as much as they might try, but this is just a transparent hypocritical attempt to woo Hillary voters, and it is already backfiring.  This will even energize hillary supporters who might have sat it out . . . it's like a slap in the face, he actually thinks just because he puts a vagina on stage we'll vote for him.  It's pathetic.  Did you see Kay Bailey Hutchinson stammer through an interview this morning trying to put a game face on (she must be thrilled that she got passed over), finally had to say, "I really don't know her very well".

Here we have a B.A. from some small college who admits she really hasn't thought much about Iraq, I can see she'll get a lot of respect in meetings with ranking senators and congressional leaders in Washington.  

Oh wait, republicans think that cause she's governor of Alaska she's got experience dealing with the Russian and Canadian menaces on her borders.  

McCain is a high risk poker player  (just what we need in control of the nuclear arsenal).  He's crashed a bunch of jets, and got flunked out of the military for recklessness.  Unfortunately he just went all in trying to draw an inside straight, and is left with nothing.



Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 29, 2008, 09:54:34 pm
C.O. Jones wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 18:36

She's got  the experience of going from being the daughter of two schoolteachers to being the Governor of Alaska.


One more time: ALASKA.  I don't want to say that it's about as quaint a position as you can get, but it is.

Quote:

She's been there and she's putting a son into it.  I'd wager she's thought about it.


Wrong.  She was in Kuwait, not Iraq, visiting the ANG.  Whether she's thought about it or not isn't want bothers me.  It's her inability to articulate a position on it.  

Quote:

For 146 days.


Regardless, he is clearly years ahead of her on understanding foreign relations and foreign policy.  He's at least seen a dossier or two labeled "top secret."


Quote:

Taking courageous stands like "present".


I know you are from Chicago, but you don't understand how the "present" vote is used in Springfield.  It is a very common vote for lawmakers there.  It has nothing to do with a lack of courage.  


Quote:

Obama has run a great campaign.  But the media picked Mr. Obama, and beat Ms. Clinton for him.  Hillary's way more qualified to be the Democrat's offering for Chief Executive than Obama.


Not quite.  The media picked Howard Dean, and he managed to fuck it up.  they can help, but they can't do it for you.  He ran one of the best primary campaigns and organizations that there ever was.  And anybody inside the beltway will tell  that.  the media might annoint you, but in the end, you have to deal the deal on your own.

Quote:

If a "community organizer" is a proper foundation for Commander-in-Chief, Palin's at-least-as-weighty resume should be a proper grounding for veep.  I think the "expeirence" argument is one the Obama camp will stay on for, oh, 'till about dawn tomorrow.


Actually, working with people on the street level, and getting to know who is being affected by the laws being passed, and how they are, is the perfect starting point for a politician.  Oh yeah, he went to law school and has written laws, etc.  We call the folks on capitol hill "law makers" for a reason.  And if you think intelligence and education are over rated qualities for this job, you haven't been paying attention the last eight years.  
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Paul Cavins on August 29, 2008, 10:00:15 pm
J.J.--

The media picked Howard Dean? I think you had a minor brain fart. Dean was in the mix the last time around.


Palin has an 18 year old son in the army, who is going to Iraq, btw. I'm sure a thought or two has run through her pretty little head.

PC
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Berolzheimer on August 29, 2008, 10:52:17 pm
Please don't forget Obama's 8 years as a state senator.


Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: C.O. Jones on August 29, 2008, 11:01:13 pm
J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 20:54


Quote:

She's been there and she's putting a son into it.  I'd wager she's thought about it.


Wrong.  She was in Kuwait, not Iraq, visiting the ANG...


Please pardon my error.  Still the Iraq theater of operations, though, and if the ANG was in Kuwait, I suppose that would be an appropriate place for their Commander-in Chief to visit.

Fatten Palin's resume over Obama's by +1 "Commander-in-Chief" gig.

Jones
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 29, 2008, 11:03:56 pm
Paul Cavins wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 19:00

J.J.--

The media picked Howard Dean? I think you had a minor brain fart. Dean was in the mix the last time around.


Palin has an 18 year old son in the army, who is going to Iraq, btw. I'm sure a thought or two has run through her pretty little head.

PC


Wow.

Paul, I'm talking about 2004.  DUH!  How could you infer anything else?  I mean, really...  

Yeah, I know she has an 18 year old being shipped out on Sept. 11, as if that's  a qualification.  And, as I said already, whether or not she has "thought about it" doesn't bother me as much as the fact that she could be one heart beat away from the president can't articulate her thoughts on the war, when asked about it, only coming up with "I haven;t given it much thought."

But the fact that she's an evangelical christian should be enough to want to keep her as far from the office of president as possible.  Haven't grown up in that environment, and knowing their social and political beliefs, the worst possible thing that could ever happen to this country is to let one of them become president, dictate domestic and foreign policy, and appoint another supreme court justice.

And yes, I am prejudiced against evangelicals of her type, with sound basis.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 29, 2008, 11:09:57 pm
C.O. Jones wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 20:01

Please pardon my error.  Still the Iraq theater of operations, though, and if the ANG was in Kuwait, I suppose that would be an appropriate place for their Commander-in Chief to visit.

Fatten Palin's resume over Obama's by +1 "Commander-in-Chief" gig.

Jones


Nice try, but no cigar.  First off, she is not the "commander in chief" of the ANG.  As governor, she is simply in charge of it.  Their commander in chief is the president, and the decision to deploy them on foreign soil is done at a federal level.  All she really gets to tell them to do is go wipe up oil off the beach when a tanker spills.  She has no say over combat operations, so her role is really nothing more than symbolic.  

Face it.  She's a political feather weight.  You can try to spin that as hard as you want, but it's the reality of the situation.  She's done nothing on a national level, and has never had to prove her self on the national stage.  
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: seedyunderbelly.com on August 29, 2008, 11:12:45 pm
It is a curious choice..

I Do not think she is in the same League as Obama. And thats not the Question The question is Who is a better VP Choice?  Who Would you rather appoint Justices and have the finger on the trigger?  Who would relate to the rest of the world better Biden or Palin?

We already know Obama went to Iraq and Europe and Did ok..  

This is about VP  

It will likely be a good thing for the democrats-  Now many of the folks on the edge and something  "not normal" about this years Deomcrat offering would have shifted them into the old man category.. Perhaps Will see "something funny" about this  and it may level the playing field.  

j

fwiw No matter who wins now the game is open to women on both sides..





Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: cerberus on August 29, 2008, 11:47:42 pm
Paul Cavins wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 20:17

Alright, you fucks, I'll bite. You need a little rightie spice in this discussion.


I want someone to tell me why Barrack Obama has more experience to be president than Sarah Palin.

Just tell me. She is a first term governor, meaning executive experience. He is a first term senator.

If Obama is so great and ready to be president, then why does his resume only equal (if that) Palin's?

Any assault on her experience is one on Obama's isn't it?

Rational thoughts, please.

PC
well for one thing, obama kicked the proverbial dynastic clinton machine's ass
and lives to tell about it. sorta like reagan and gorby, or jfk and kruschev...
but without without the  nukes. impressive, no?  oh, and he's got
working class roots; a self-made man, not a trust fund kid.

what else?  setting up a plan for iraq that the iraquis themselves favored,
and dragging the bush administration into it by it's hair?  just
more proof that you don't wanna mess with barak.

i would call  that a foriegn policy success. very impressive.

or did you mean, what did obama do to try and save the world this week?

well, i suppose obama went to church.  he doesn't just walk the talk;
obama actually attends a church. it isn't your church, but i'm
sure that's going to be ok with everyone. we are not all
the same religion or sect. that is how america is.

i notice that when obama recites the "pledge", he cares enough
to insert "under god";  words that were not originally in
the pledge. see, barak likes you! he shares  your
value system. he cares about you.

(and obama's a natty dresser... i dig his american flag pin.)

mclame does not belong to any institution of godly worship. i understand
that he was a p.o.w. in 'nam; and  that his bravery and heroism
during that time are respected by all.

but that was during the 1960s.  nowadays, senator
mcsame flies to barbeques on his wife's jet (she's
some kind of heiress billionaire). mclamebrain
thinks "working class" means: that your
annual income is slightly under $5mil.
if he's  your guy, then who are you?

i think that mcbillionaire's palin nomination represents an insult to women.
one may s'pose she was all he could get. christine whitman was not
going to be available... and harriet myers might be "busy".

jeff dinces
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 30, 2008, 02:40:38 am
http://www.crasscommerce.com/images/art/apparel/125-McCain-Nope.jpg
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: neilio on August 30, 2008, 06:05:04 am
Paul Cavins wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 19:17

Alright, you fucks, I'll bite. You need a little rightie spice in this discussion.


I want someone to tell me why Barrack Obama has more experience to be president than Sarah Palin.

Just tell me. She is a first term governor, meaning executive experience. He is a first term senator.

If Obama is so great and ready to be president, then why does his resume only equal (if that) Palin's?

Any assault on her experience is one on Obama's isn't it?

Rational thoughts, please.

PC


very easy,unwealthy mixed race man, gets into harvard, becomes editor of said review, majors in constitutional law, at said college...

now i know that righties could care less about the constitution, namely because it does not give one the right to be a wealthy robber-baron, but really the jackasses who founded the damn country placed a hefty importance on the document...

Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Bill_Urick on August 30, 2008, 07:55:53 am
Interesting points. From reading this thread the biggest impression I have, as always, is the the level of venom coming from the left side of the console.  Smile  

JJ, as an enlightened liberal who stands for equality and dignity for all mankind, don't you think your remarks are a little sexist?

I would expect more rejoicing over a gaff of the magnitude "ya'll" seem to think McCain has committed.

Instead I sense anger and outrage.

The important point here is how the VP selection effects the electability of each presidential candidate.

From this standpoint, Obama has erred and McCain has enhanced his position. More later, have to work today.  
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: rphilbeck on August 30, 2008, 10:10:12 am
J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 23:03



But the fact that she's an evangelical christian should be enough to want to keep her as far from the office of president as possible.  



That coming from a self-proclaimed recovering born again christian.  How many faces have you worn in your life J.J., and why should we expect the principles you hold today to the the principles you'll hold tomorrow?  As far as I can tell your core conscience is as solid as a sponge.

Forget about experience and focus on accomplishments.  B.O can't even hold a candle to Palin.  The guy has done zilch.  Furthermore, none of you knew anything about this woman until yesterday, which is not enough time to understand who she is or what she has done.  We've known B.O. for a number of years now and can still see he hasn't done shit.  Give it a minute for her accomplishments to come to light.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on August 30, 2008, 11:00:26 am
PRobb wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 10:45

 The job of the VP is to be ready to be president.

The job of Dan Quayle was to be so obviously awful and out of place that no one reasonable would take a shot at a Bush.

DS
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 30, 2008, 11:26:09 am
RPhilbeck wrote on Sat, 30 August 2008 07:10

That coming from a self-proclaimed recovering born again christian.  How many faces have you worn in your life J.J., and why should we expect the principles you hold today to the the principles you'll hold tomorrow?  As far as I can tell your core conscience is as solid as a sponge.

Forget about experience and focus on accomplishments.  B.O can't even hold a candle to Palin.  The guy has done zilch.  Furthermore, none of you knew anything about this woman until yesterday, which is not enough time to understand who she is or what she has done.  We've known B.O. for a number of years now and can still see he hasn't done shit.  Give it a minute for her accomplishments to come to light.


Comedy ... on both assertions. As far as I can tell, you know absolutely nothing about me.  On a quick note, I was indoctrinated into being born again as a child.  By the time I was adult, I've had pretty much the same "core conscience" that I do today.  But nice try.

BTW ... Obama taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago for 12 years.  If you know anything about the U of C (I graduated from their Lab School), not only is it one of the most prestigious schools in the country, but becoming a member of their faculty is an accomplishment of enormous proportions.  

So, a PTA mom, almost beauty queen, who graduated unremarkably from Univ. of Idaho with a degree in journalism has accomplished more than the head of Harvard Law review and Univ. or Chicago professor of constitutional law?

And a degree in journalism prepares you to be president how?
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 30, 2008, 11:29:45 am
Bill_Urick wrote on Sat, 30 August 2008 04:55

JJ, as an enlightened liberal who stands for equality and dignity for all mankind, don't you think your remarks are a little sexist?


What's wrong with being sexy?

http://acmesiren.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/spinaltap2.jpg
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on August 30, 2008, 11:40:03 am
Bill_Urick wrote on Sat, 30 August 2008 04:55

Interesting points. From reading this thread the biggest impression I have, as always, is the the level of venom coming from the left side of the console.  Smile  

JJ, as an enlightened liberal who stands for equality and dignity for all mankind, don't you think your remarks are a little sexist?

I would expect more rejoicing over a gaff of the magnitude "ya'll" seem to think McCain has committed.

Instead I sense anger and outrage.

The important point here is how the VP selection effects the electability of each presidential candidate.

From this standpoint, Obama has erred and McCain has enhanced his position. More later, have to work today.  

A very interesting post. Unsurprisingly, the venom appears to me to be coming from the right side of the console, and most of it is right there in that quote. What a surprise.

I think this is all beside the point. Its pretty obvious no one has gotten behind Obama for his experience. His oratory, like JFK's and MLKs, is what's gotten people's pulses going a little faster. He inspires people. His speech Thursday night was unlike any a politcian has given in this country. JFK wasn't particularly experienced either when he got to the big house, and had a lot of learning to do very fast to understand the forces at work around him. He didn't learn fast enough, it appears.

The bigger mystery to me is what has happened to John McCain, formerly an articulate and vital man and who I, a recently as earlier this year, considered to be the last hope left for the decaying Republican party. His own party threw him to the dogs in 2000, when his being elected might have made a difference for the country, and they appear to have done it again. This bizarre choice just underscores that there's something going on there that's not quite kosher. Maybe he just really is too old for this. But I miss him.

The way Gore didn't defend himself from the incredible lies being told about him in 2000 (McCain tried but no one listened), the half-hearted campaigns that Kerry ran in 2004 and McCain is running now, its enough to make one think the paranoiacs are right and that these things are decided beforehand by a group of who-knows-what that we have no access to.

What I found really appalling was watching this Alaskan girl's face being so smug as she talked about her son going to Iraq, sacrificing him for the ability to brag about him. Blech. There was a time when McCain wouldn't have been associated with something so dim-witted. He was always able to bring a little more depth to the politicking. No more.

EDIT: I think Obama brings even more depth. A conversation between him and the McCain that used to be would have been good for everyone. But watching McCain's moves now, I no longer think that what we do matters much. I suspect these things are decided in corporate office suites and are based on ways of manipulating public perception so as to shift our money one way or another, but mostly just away from us and to the corporate elite. And so in the end, what matters most is who is leading China, and how much they think they still need us. Our own conservative financial experts have abandoned us (and needless to say, our men in uniform), and made billions doing it.

DS
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on August 30, 2008, 12:03:07 pm
From the rabidly leftist LA Times:

 http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-mccainassess30-20 08aug30,0,7090723.story

""Americans like risk-takers, but they also want to know that in times of crisis, you're going to be calm," said Matthew Dowd, who was a senior campaign strategist for President Bush but is neutral in the McCain-Obama race."

WTF? Neutral?

DS
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 30, 2008, 12:09:24 pm
Quote:

JFK wasn't particularly experienced either when he got to the big house, and had a lot of learning to do very fast to understand the forces at work around him.


Neither was Lincoln, another first term Senator when elected.

But, in the case of JFK, you can see how judgment overrides experience, during the Cuban missile crisis.  He was able to fend off hawks on his staff, like Curtis Le May, who were as anxious to start a shooting war with the USSR as Cheney and Rumsfeld were to start one with Iraq.  
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on August 30, 2008, 12:14:08 pm
Hey, the Dems ran a woman in 1984, the Repugs took 24 years to catch up. Does this remind anyone of the saying we used to hear about Windows 2000, and the Mac vs. PC "debate"?

DS
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on August 30, 2008, 12:52:15 pm
Alaskans on Palin:

http://mudflats.wordpress.com/

And then:

http://www.palinfacts.com/

http://sarahpalin.typepad.com/
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: danickstr on August 30, 2008, 12:59:16 pm
are her supporters Eliot S. Toile and Dennis Sinned called Palin-drones?
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on August 30, 2008, 01:50:49 pm
In this photo she's supposed to be 7 months pregnant

http://www.adn.com/politics/v-gallery/story/339576.html?/pol itics/v-enlarge/story/339576-a339575-t3.html

One of the daughter at the same time :

http://bp2.blogger.com/_eeBrCFDUUOc/R9SMzjkqrLI/AAAAAAAAAUw/ thEnzs9T7GY/s1600-h/PalinFamily.jpg

Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 30, 2008, 02:19:15 pm
mgod wrote on Sat, 30 August 2008 09:52

Alaskans on Palin:

http://mudflats.wordpress.com/

And then:

http://www.palinfacts.com/

http://sarahpalin.typepad.com/


I'd read the mudflats one already, and it is very enlightening to hear a Alaskan's perspective.  His take on her popularity rating is very interesting.

This one is downright hilarious:

http://www.clusterdouche.com/blog2/?p=191

I'm listening to McLazarus' campaign director not answer every single question about Palin and just stick to the talking points.  Why can't people answer questions?  What he just said had not a single thing to do with the question asked, and the stupid reporter didn't call him on it.  
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Barry Hufker on August 30, 2008, 02:30:28 pm
"What he just said had not a single thing to do with the question asked, and the stupid reporter didn't call him on it."

That's because the mainstream media has been (at least up to this point) pro-McCain.  They let him get away with anything.  Many of them have admitted it.  But they excuse it by saying "he was a pow".

Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: organica on August 30, 2008, 02:31:47 pm
Does anyone happen to have access to a list of legislative accomplishments of Obama's and Palin's ?

Could you please list them here ?

I don't have time to look it up myself but it would certainly be educational and helpful ( for me at least).

Thanks .
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: jimlongo on August 30, 2008, 02:48:58 pm
mgod wrote on Sat, 30 August 2008 13:50

In this photo she's supposed to be 7 months pregnant

 http://www.adn.com/politics/v-gallery/story/339576.html?/pol itics/v-enlarge/story/339576-a339575-t3.html

One of the daughter at the same time :

 http://bp2.blogger.com/_eeBrCFDUUOc/R9SMzjkqrLI/AAAAAAAAAUw/ thEnzs9T7GY/s1600-h/PalinFamily.jpg




Certainly wouldn't be the first time a mother "bearded" for her teenage daughter.  Add to that the story about her flying home after her water broke, bypassing any number of highly qualified hospitals to get back to her home town before delivering the baby . . . did McCain really vet this person or what?


Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Barry Hufker on August 30, 2008, 03:00:43 pm
As a Born Again Christian I would not want, not for one second, to have Palin as VP or P.  Nor McCain.

No less a person that Pat Buchanan thinks Obama "nailed it" during his speech at the Democratic Convention.

BUCHANAN: “I stand with Obama! It was a genuinely outstanding speech, it was magnificent. I saw Cuomo’s speech, I saw Kennedy in ‘80, I even saw Douglas MacArthur, I saw MLK; this is the greatest convention speech and probably the most important because unlike Cuomo and the others, this was an acceptance speech, this came out of the heart of America, and he went right at the heart of America. This wasn’t a liberal speech at all. This is a deeply, deeply centrist speech. It had wit, it had humor, and when he used the needle on McCain, he stuck it into McCain and it was funny. It was Kennedy’s speech in ‘80. I laughed with Kennedy when he was needling Ronald Reagan.”

I don't see Buchanan saying anything like that about Palin... ever...





Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Berolzheimer on August 30, 2008, 03:04:36 pm
RPhilbeck wrote on Sat, 30 August 2008 07:10

J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 23:03



But the fact that she's an evangelical christian should be enough to want to keep her as far from the office of president as possible.  





Forget about experience and focus on accomplishments.  B.O can't even hold a candle to Palin.  The guy has done zilch.  Furthermore, none of you knew anything about this woman until yesterday, which is not enough time to understand who she is or what she has done.  We've known B.O. for a number of years now and can still see he hasn't done shit.


Obama hasn't done anything? OK, let's just put this ridiculous notion to rest here & now:

Barak Obama's Accomplishments & Career/Bio

- Obama passed legislation with Republican Senator Jim Talent to give gas stations a tax credit for installing E85 ethanol refueling pumps. The tax credit covers 30 percent of the costs of switching one or more traditional petroleum pumps to E85, which is an 85 percent ethanol/15 percent gasoline blend.

- After a number of inmates on death row were found innocent, Senator Obama worked with law enforcement officials to require the videotaping of interrogations and confessions in all capital cases.

- His first law was passed with Republican Tom Coburn, a measure to rebuild trust in government by allowing every American to go online and see how and where every dime of their tax dollars is spent.

- Obama created the Illinois Earned Income Tax Credit for low-income working families in 2000 and successfully sponsored a measure to make the credit permanent in 2003. The law offered about $105 million in tax relief over three years.

- Obama joined forces with former U.S. Sen. Paul Simon (D-IL) to pass the toughest campaign finance law in Illinois history. The legislation banned the personal use of campaign money by Illinois legislators and banned gifts from lobbyists. Before the law was passed, one organization ranked Illinois worst among 50 states for its campaign finance regulations.

- As a member of the Veterans' Affairs Committee, Senator Obama has fought to help Illinois veterans get the disability pay they were promised, while working to prepare the VA for the return of the thousands of veterans who will need care after Iraq and Afghanistan.

- He traveled to Russia with Republican Dick Lugar to begin a new generation of non-proliferation efforts designed to find and secure deadly weapons around the world.

- Obama has been a leading advocate for protecting the right to vote, helping to reauthorize the Voting Rights Act and leading the opposition against discriminatory barriers to voting.

- In the U.S. Senate, Obama introduced the STOP FRAUD Act to increase penalties for mortgage fraud and provide more protections for low-income homebuyers, well before the current subprime crisis began.

- Obama sponsored legislation to combat predatory payday loans, and he also was credited with lobbied the state to more closely regulate some of the most egregious predatory lending practices.

- Barack Obama introduced the Patriot Employer Act of 2007 to provide a tax credit to companies that maintain or increase the number of full-time workers in America relative to those outside the US; maintain their corporate headquarters in America; pay decent wages; prepare workers for retirement; provide health insurance; and support employees who serve in the military.

- Obama worked to pass a number of laws in Illinois and Washington to improve the health of women. His accomplishments include creating a task force on cervical cancer, providing greater access to breast and cervical cancer screenings, and helping improve prenatal and premature birth services.

- Obama has introduced and helped pass bipartisan legislation to limit the abuse of no-bid federal contracts.

- Obama and Senator Feingold (D-WI) took on both parties and proposed ethics legislation that was described as the "gold standard" for reform. It was because of their leadership that ending subsidized corporate jet travel, mandating disclosure of lobbyists' bundling of contributions, and enacting strong new restrictions of lobbyist-sponsored trips became part of the final ethics bill that was signed into law.

source



Biography

Barack Obama (born August 4, 1961) is a U.S. Senator from Illinois. He is a member of the main Democratic Party. He has received international media coverage for his keynote address at the 2004 Democratic National Convention, delivered while he was still an Illinois state senator.

As a senior lecturer in constitutional law at the University of Chicago law school, Obama won the open Senate seat by defeating former ambassador Alan Keyes. He is the only African American who is currently serving in the U.S. Senate, and the fifth in the entire United States history and the third since Reconstruction. The 2004 U.S. Senate election in Illinois made history as the first Senate election to feature black nominees from both major parties. Obama won the election in a landslide, with 70% of the vote to Keyes' 27%. He is junior senator to Richard Durbin.

Obama is married to Michelle Obama, a Chicago native. They have two daughters: Malia Ann (born in 1999) and Natasha (born 2001).



His Early life

Barack Obama was born at the Queen's Medical Center in Honolulu, Hawaii to Harvard-educated economist Barack Obama, Sr., a native of Kenya, and S. Ann Dunham, of Kansas. Ms. Dunham is a distant descendant of Jefferson Davis, the first and only president of the Confederate States of America; she is also part Cherokee Indian.

At the time of Obama's birth, both his parents were students at the East-West Center at the University of Hawaii at Manoa. "Barack" means "blessed" in Swahili.

Of his years in Hawaii, Obama has written, "The irony is that my decision to work in politics, and to pursue such a career in a big Mainland city, in some sense grows out of my Hawaiian upbringing, and the ideal that Hawaii still represents in my mind."

When Obama was two years old, his parents divorced. His father eventually returned to Kenya, and he saw his son only once more before his death in 1982. Ann Obama married another East-West Center student from Indonesia. The family then moved to Jakarta, where Obama's half-sister Maya was born (Obama has other half-siblings from his father's later marriages). When Obama was ten he returned to Hawaii under the care of his grandparents, and later his mother, for the better educational opportunities. He was enrolled in the fifth grade at Punahou School, a prestigious academy that once taught the Hawaiian royal family. He graduated with honors.



His College experience and career

Upon finishing high school, Obama studied for two years at Occidental College in California, before transferring to Columbia University in New York City. There he majored in political science, with a specialization in international relations. Upon graduation, he moved to Chicago, where he took up community organizing in the Altgeld Gardens housing project on the city's South Side. While in Chicago, he joined the Trinity United Church of Christ.

He left Chicago for three years to study law at Harvard University, where he was elected the first black president of the Harvard Law Review. He graduated Magna Cum Laude. While working one summer at a corporate law firm in 1989, Obama met Michelle Robinson, whom he married in 1992. Robinson is also a graduate of Harvard Law.

While in Chicago as a community organizer once again, Obama organized an aggressive voter registration effort that aided in the election of President Bill Clinton and Senator Carol Moseley Braun. The campaign registered over 100,000 voters. Soon after, his talents earned him a position at a local civil rights law firm, and he became a lecturer of constitutional law at the University of Chicago, where he served as a professor until his election to the U.S. Senate.



Barack Obama and Politics

Illinois General Assembly

In 1996, Obama was elected to the Illinois State Senate from the south side neighborhood of Hyde Park, in Chicago. He served as chairman of the Public Health and Welfare Committee when the Democrats regained control of the chamber. The Chicago Tribune called him "one of the General Assembly's most impressive members."

Regarded as a staunch liberal during his tenure in the legislature, he helped to author a state Earned Income Tax Credit which provided benefits to the working poor. He also worked for legislation that would cover residents who could not afford health insurance. Speaking up for leading gay and lesbian advocacy groups, he successfully helped pass bills to increase funding for AIDS prevention and care programs.

In 2000, he ran unsuccessfully in the Democratic primary for Illinois' 1st Congressional district against incumbent Representative Bobby Rush.

After the loss, Obama rededicated his efforts to the state Senate. He authored one of the most progressive death penalty reform laws in the nation, under the guidance of his mentor, former U.S. Senator Paul Simon. He also pushed through legislation that would force insurance companies to cover routine mammograms.


Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Barry Hufker on August 30, 2008, 03:06:32 pm
Here's Karl Rove arguing why Palin shouldn't be VP.

These are Rove's remarks when he thought Tim Kaine would be Obama's VP choice:

"With all due respect again to Governor Kaine, he’s been a governor for three years, he’s been able but undistinguished. I don’t think people could really name a big, important thing that he’s done. He was mayor of the 105th largest city in America. And again, with all due respect to Richmond, Virginia, it’s smaller than Chula Vista, California; Aurora, Colorado; Mesa or Gilbert, Arizona; north Las Vegas or Henderson, Nevada. It’s not a big town. So if he were to pick Governor Kaine, it would be an intensely political choice where he said, `You know what? I’m really not, first and foremost, concerned with, is this person capable of being president of the United States?"

From Crooks And Liars (crooksandliars.com):

As we now know, Barack Obama chose Joe Biden as his VP, probably the least political choice he could have made, and probably the best governing choice he could have made. John McCain, on the other hand, is the one who made the “intensely political choice” by choosing Sara Palin — a political newcomer and self-described “hockey mom” who has less than two years of governing experience and ZERO foreign policy experience — all because the political winds dictated that “change” was going to trump “experience” this election.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Berolzheimer on August 30, 2008, 03:22:16 pm
I was born the same year as Obama and while I feel that I've done alright, I haven't accomplished a 10th of what he has.  Can any of you say that you have?

Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 30, 2008, 03:43:38 pm
Barry Hufker wrote on Sat, 30 August 2008 12:00



I don't see Buchanan saying anything like that about Palin... ever...


Actually, Barry, Pat's been raving about her.  They go back, and he is very fond of her.

But here's a good list of things to consider about her:

Who is Sarah Palin? Here's some basic background:

She was elected Alaska's governor a little over a year and a half ago. Her previous office was mayor of Wasilla, a small town outside Anchorage. She has no foreign policy experience.

Palin is strongly anti-choice, opposing abortion even in the case of rape or incest.

She supported right-wing extremist Pat Buchanan for president in 2000.

Palin thinks creationism should be taught in public schools.

She's doesn't think humans are the cause of climate change.

She sued the Bush administration for listing polar bears as an endangered species—she was worried it would interfere with more oil drilling in Alaska.

How closely did John McCain vet this choice? He met Sarah Palin once at a meeting. They spoke a second time, last Sunday, when he called her about being vice-president. Then he offered her the position.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Barry Hufker on August 30, 2008, 04:11:57 pm
"Actually, Barry, Pat's been raving about her. They go back, and he is very fond of her."

Poop.

Well, what the fuck does Buchanan know anyway??!!

Title: Occam's Razor (was Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick)
Post by: Andy Peters on August 30, 2008, 06:24:32 pm
It's all quite simple, really.

All of the Usual Suspects (Romney, Pawlenty, Lieberman, Huckabee, St. Rudy, possibly Liddy Dole, etc.) were offered the job, perhaps even in that order.

And all turned it down. Flatly.

While one can call Republicans lots of things, they are not stupid. And they rightly see McCain's Quixotic campaign as a lost cause (no offense intended to de Cervante's knight errant; is Palin REALLY Sancho?) and they figure that it's better to run for President in 2012 without being tainted as the losing Veep option in 2008.

So they dig up a last-string option from the hinterlands, who is palatable only to the far-right wingnuts who'd otherwise stay home on 4 November. The "cover story" is that she "appeals to the disgruntled Hillary supporters" who exist only in the right-wing media's deranged mind, but in fact they're sending her out there to "Take one for the team" so the starting line-up can rest up for the next game.

And when the election is over, she'll return to Alaska to face impeachment.

-a
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: cerberus on August 30, 2008, 06:35:08 pm
mgod wrote on Sat, 30 August 2008 13:50

In this photo she's supposed to be 7 months pregnant

  http://www.adn.com/politics/v-gallery/story/339576.html?/pol itics/v-enlarge/story/339576-a339575-t3.html

One of the daughter at the same time :

  http://bp2.blogger.com/_eeBrCFDUUOc/R9SMzjkqrLI/AAAAAAAAAUw/ thEnzs9T7GY/s1600-h/PalinFamily.jpg


Shocked
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Bob Boyd on August 30, 2008, 11:04:33 pm
Berolzheimer wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 13:16

...please don't use the term "pro-life".  We're all pro life, of course.  Call them what they are that's different than the general public, which is "anti -choice".

Not at all. It's actually very pro-choice to understand that everyone - even the unborn - should one day be able to make all of the choices you and I both do.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 30, 2008, 11:14:11 pm
I love how "pro-life" people tend to also be pro death penalty.  A lot of them were pro invading Iraq, too.  

You know, I honestly don't give a shit when the people think life begins, but don't want them to legislate it, and impose their religious beliefs on people that don't share them ... especially if they are going to be hypocritical about which lives are worth saving.  

Bill Hicks had it right, as far as I'm concerned: Life doesn't begin until you're in the phone book.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: danickstr on August 30, 2008, 11:17:36 pm
I like to say that Texans are in favor of a 75th trimester abortion, and not a month earlier.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Bob Boyd on August 30, 2008, 11:36:19 pm
J.J. Blair wrote on Sat, 30 August 2008 22:14

I love how "pro-life" people tend to also be pro death penalty.


And I love how everyone who is pro-choice misses the beginning of human life (that's us) but wants to talk to me about the lives of owls and trees.

Quote:

You know, I honestly don't give a shit when the people think life begins, but don't want them to legislate it...

Isn't it interesting that every time a pregnant woman is murdered that there are 2 counts of murder?  Who else was victimized?

Say all you will about Sarah Palin.  Compare her's and her daughter's bodies all you want (seriously?).  Any person or any family that knows that they are having a down's syndrome baby and welcomes that child into the world with loving arms deserves our respect.

I don't make it to the saloon too often but I'll give you one thing JJ.  The Bill Maher quote in your signature is dead on.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Barry Hufker on August 31, 2008, 01:12:44 am
I am anti-abortion but I also know people.  You can't legislate morality.  You can't deny birth control and tell people just to say "no" - it isn't going to (and doesn't) work.  If abortion is outlawed, then only the wealthy who can afford real medical care will find it for their abortions while the poor will but stuck with a back alley abortion by a butcher or will raise another child the parents can't afford.

In that regard I am pro-choice.  I don't care about saving owls or trees but I do care about the poorly educated; the middle-class; the homeless; the immigrant; U.S. jobs; the family; treating our military with respect by not sending them to die for oil, KBR, Blackwater and Haliburton; our flag; our country; our future.

And you know what?  Republicans don't.  If they did there wouldn't be:
1. every child left behind
2. US jobs sent overseas
3. a lending industry filled with mortgage fraud
4. filthy military hospitals, Republican votes against an updated and improved G.I. bill
5. the invasion of a sovereign nation in an effort to seize its oil
6. treason by the VP and P as they outed an active covert CIA agent, Valerie Plame
7. VP and P approved torture/war crimes
8. human trafficking by HBR (unchecked by our government)
9. Blackwater running lawless in Iraq
10. scandal after scandal, corruption after corruption
   A. Ted Stevens in Alaska
   B. Abramhoff
   C. The call girl scandal
   D. the hypocrisy of the homophobic evangelical preacher who  hired a gay prostititute
   E. the hypocrisy of the homophobic Republican senator who indulges in indiscriminate gay sex in public, airport restrooms.
   F. Pedophile Republican Senators having sex with underage Senate pages.
   G. A current Republican presidential candidate (McCain) with 150 special interest lobbyists running his campaign.

I can go on but what's the point?  Republicans talk the talk and never walk the walk.  They'll legislate to try to get you to do what they want but they'll never do it themselves.

When it comes to politics and genuine care for the people on this earth, a great many of my brothers and sisters in Christ are full of shit.

Barry
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: danickstr on August 31, 2008, 01:21:13 am
B-dog puttin the hammer down.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Barry Hufker on August 31, 2008, 01:23:29 am
I know!  He can be such a shit sometimes!!

Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: maxim on August 31, 2008, 01:43:53 am
she sounds odious...
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Bob Boyd on August 31, 2008, 01:53:46 am
Barry Hufker wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 00:12

When it comes to politics and genuine care for the people on this earth, a great many of my brothers and sisters in Christ are full of shit.


You know what?  You're right Barry.  And a great many always will be.  The church is full of people and because of that it will always be just as flawed as any organization with people in it - often more so.  That not an excuse.  It's just a fact.

I would be happy to have "Christian" and "Republican" separated from each other.  This polarization happened over Roe v. Wade.  The truth is Republicans don't own morality and tying the two together cheapens a much greater message.

I know you're impressed with your laundry list but my faith has nothing to do with bathroom stalls, scandals, or failures on either side of the aisle.  Saying one thing and doing another is hypocrisy and should be held to accountability - Republican, Democrat, religious or not.

I believe in separation of church and state but both of us will always be guilty of voting based our values.  That's the way it works.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Barry Hufker on August 31, 2008, 02:21:12 am
Bob,

I agree with you completely.

So... you'll be voting Democrat....

Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: PookyNMR on August 31, 2008, 02:21:14 am
Barry Hufker wrote on Sat, 30 August 2008 23:12

When it comes to politics and genuine care for the people on this earth, a great many of my brothers and sisters in Christ are full of shit.


Let's not forget that a great number more are wonderful people with good heads on their shoulders who do a lot (personally, with their own hands) to love and care for both their neighbors and others around the planet.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Bob Boyd on August 31, 2008, 02:29:14 am
Barry Hufker wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 01:21

Bob,
I agree with you completely.

So... you'll be voting Democrat....


Shocked
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Barry Hufker on August 31, 2008, 02:53:51 am
PookyNMR wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 01:21

Barry Hufker wrote on Sat, 30 August 2008 23:12

When it comes to politics and genuine care for the people on this earth, a great many of my brothers and sisters in Christ are full of shit.


Let's not forget that a great number more are wonderful people with good heads on their shoulders who do a lot (personally, with their own hands) to love and care for both their neighbors and others around the planet.


I'm not worried about them.  Those aren't the ones making life miserable.

Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 31, 2008, 03:31:54 am
Bob Boyd wrote on Sat, 30 August 2008 20:36

J.J. Blair wrote on Sat, 30 August 2008 22:14

I love how "pro-life" people tend to also be pro death penalty.


And I love how everyone who is pro-choice misses the beginning of human life (that's us) but wants to talk to me about the lives of owls and trees.


That's horse shit.  

I hear way more about that "eye for an eye" crap from the religious right than I do radical conservationism from the majority of our population who think that government has no fucking business telling a woman whether or not she can choose to have an abortion.

Quote:

Quote:

You know, I honestly don't give a shit when the people think life begins, but don't want them to legislate it...

Isn't it interesting that every time a pregnant woman is murdered that there are 2 counts of murder?  Who else was victimized?

Say all you will about Sarah Palin.  Compare her's and her daughter's bodies all you want (seriously?).  Any person or any family that knows that they are having a down's syndrome baby and welcomes that child into the world with loving arms deserves our respect.


And this qualifies her to president how?  So fucking what?  

First off though, the law that counts it as two counts of murder was written by anti-abortion wing nuts, taking advantage of the Lacy Peterson frenzy.  That law never should have been passed, and Democrats were too afraid to stand up to it at a time when people had no common sense, because they were so caught up in a sensational murder case.  It's an attempt to bootstrap the anti-abortion agenda into case law, so don't even try bringing that up as some point of legislation that we're supposed to agree with.  You know damn well where that came from, and who put it there.

Secondly, I didn't say a thing about her daughters.  

But as far as having a fifth kid when you're 43, I'll give you another Bill Maher quote:

"Five kids?  Why is it that Republicans are so against the concept of pulling out?"

BTW, when she had that kid, her water broke right she gave a speech in Texas.  Even after breaking water, she gave the speech, then got on a plane to get home and have the baby in another state.  She at least was smart enough to not to want her kid to be a Texan.




Oh, and another great point from Bill Maher:

"When Sarah Palin gets a 3am cal, it's because there's a moose in the garbage can."
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: John Ivan on August 31, 2008, 06:00:14 am
Paul Cavins wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 20:17

Alright, you fucks, I'll bite. You need a little rightie spice in this discussion.


I want someone to tell me why Barrack Obama has more experience to be president than Sarah Palin.

Just tell me. She is a first term governor, meaning executive experience. He is a first term senator.

If Obama is so great and ready to be president, then why does his resume only equal (if that) Palin's?

Any assault on her experience is one on Obama's isn't it?

Rational thoughts, please.

PC



I stopped in  the thread right here to say that , while experience CAN be a GOOD thing, it has proven in the very recent past to be a total disaster.. Sending your kids, for instance, to a pre-school that has a lot of experience abusing kids isn't really a good thing..

No one has it.. There is no special experience that can prepare you for the White House. I am voting based on what I see as the persons' judgment. In my opinion, Obama is a mental giant compared to everyone running on the Republican side.. Certainly, he is the better person for the job..

Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: John Ivan on August 31, 2008, 06:46:49 am
Bill_Urick wrote on Sat, 30 August 2008 07:55

Interesting points. From reading this thread the biggest impression I have, as always, is the the level of venom coming from the left side of the console.  Smile  

JJ, as an enlightened liberal who stands for equality and dignity for all mankind, don't you think your remarks are a little sexist?

I would expect more rejoicing over a gaff of the magnitude "ya'll" seem to think McCain has committed.

Instead I sense anger and outrage.

The important point here is how the VP selection effects the electability of each presidential candidate.

From this standpoint, Obama has erred and McCain has enhanced his position. More later, have to work today.  



I think this does change the conversation America will have about McCains' run/ticket. It really does make me wonder though. Sarah seems nice enough and all {although I disagree with nearly all her positions on the issues that "matter" to me}, but what does she bring to the table as VP? How in the world can they believe she can debate Biben?

I don't think for a moment that they were going after disillusioned Hillary voters with this pick. I think they wanted to secure the ultra right wing on the social issues and bring a fresh face. She might prove to be a powerful mind but I simply do not see how they can win..

I think America will be driven to the polls to vote for Obama because he will along with Biden, really be more truthful about what is going on in both Washington and America in general. People are already having a hard time figuring out whether McCain has anything to say on the issues.. When a man with his experience can't even accurately observe the serious problems in our Economy and fails even the most basic geography questions on the middle east and has a hard time grasping the cultural significance of the Iraqi "Tribal strife", people get worried these days.

Look, I think he's mostly a good cat and I don't strongly dislike the guy but,, even many Republicans I talk to admit that he seems very disconnected and out of touch... I just don't see it happening for the Republicans this time and this is a good thing.. The party is in disarray and they need a good cleaning. It's time for the Democratic Party to show us how policy making and governing should be done..They need to reshape Americas voice in the world. If they blow this, I will be very very pissed. Hurt. Sad..  

WE NEED OBAMA AND BIDEN TO DO A GREAT JOB. THE COUNTRY, ALL OF US, DESPERATELY NEED THIS TO HAPPEN .

At this point, this would be GOOD for the Republican party in the long run. They need to shake this incredibly strange and ugly image they've built for themselves.


Ivan...............
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Edvaard on August 31, 2008, 06:51:04 am
J.J. Blair wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 03:31



But as far as having a fifth kid when you're 43, I'll give you another Bill Maher quote:

"Five kids?  Why is it that Republicans are so against the concept of pulling out?"





So now a woman choosing to have more than two kids, or having any at age 43, is considered as an acceptable point of derision?

I'll say, I do have trouble keeping up with the latest in this modern world.

I'm not sure if eagerness to do battle with Republicans is sufficient excuse to insult women, however.

If you claim to be pro choice (which I am), then why do you find the other side of the coin, i.e., the choice of how many children to have or when to have them, to be something worthy of ridicule?


I'm fairly certain that Bill Maher's writers were merely using the "five kids" part as opportunity for the double entendre "Why is it that Republicans are so against the concept of pulling out?" as a poke against the Iraq fiasco, not as insult to family choice.



Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: organica on August 31, 2008, 10:30:51 am
J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 10:43

Well, way to break the news cycle being about Obama's speech.


I thought that the speech started off well , but I fell asleep after about 10 minutes  . GOP's news cycle about their convention will no doubt be broken by the hurricane .

Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on August 31, 2008, 11:26:51 am
Bob Boyd wrote on Sat, 30 August 2008 20:36


And I love how everyone who is pro-choice misses the beginning of human life (that's us)

Which is when exactly?

From personal experience, I think its when the man and woman meet, but one could argue that its when the parents are born, or conceived, or when their parents meet...

This is a discussion of the spiritual perspective on when life begins right? Its obviously not a scientific one.

DS
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on August 31, 2008, 11:41:59 am
Americans may not know, but the Europeans understand:

index.php/fa/9820/0/

DS
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on August 31, 2008, 11:49:24 am
After watching Mrs. Palin in interviews for the last day, and especially this morning, I think McCain has made the ultimate cynical choice - he's gone for the stupid vote, the who-would-you-rather-vomit-in-an-alley-with vote. The Cheney/Bush/Satan vote, who can't relate to McCain's years of reasoned non-knee-jerk non-pandering positions, or to articulate educated politicians. She speaks to that part of the Bush base very eloquently.

DS
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Barry Hufker on August 31, 2008, 11:51:15 am
mgod wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 10:41

Americans may not know, but the Europeans understand:

index.php/fa/9820/0/

DS



We've been seeing the real McCain - the one who will say and do anything to be president.  His whole life reflects that.  He will say and do whatever it takes to get what he wants.


Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on August 31, 2008, 11:54:00 am
Not always.

http://www.economist.com/opinion/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=1 2009710

DS
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Barry Hufker on August 31, 2008, 12:00:47 pm
The article is too kind to him.

The fact that he has done such an about-face on any "maverick" ideals he ever possessed shows how desperate he is and how quickly (and deeply) he sold his soul.

Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: cerberus on August 31, 2008, 12:02:41 pm
Edvaard wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 06:51

So now a woman choosing to have more than two kids, or having any at age 43, is considered as an acceptable point of derision?

no, it is her apparent wanton disregard of the kind of standard medical advice which
would apply to any woman who has entered labor which raises eyebrows.

i find her behavior appalling; that she is an irresponsible and reckless mother. i think
that someone who values a campaign speech over the life of their own
unborn child should be considered unfit to serve our country.

jeff dinces
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on August 31, 2008, 12:20:25 pm
Bob Boyd wrote on Sat, 30 August 2008 20:36

Say all you will about Sarah Palin.  Compare her's and her daughter's bodies all you want (seriously?).  Any person or any family that knows that they are having a down's syndrome baby and welcomes that child into the world with loving arms deserves our respect.

Yes, seriously. If its a lie to the nation on day one about the child being hers and not her daughter's (as the tale of her going back to Alaska to "give birth" suggests), it speaks to many issues - not the least of which is a pretentious and hypocritical "moral" stance. Known Down's babies are born into families every day. Families raising their underage daughter's children happens every day. Neither is a big deal. Exploiting it is. Lying about it is.

DS
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on August 31, 2008, 12:28:51 pm
mgod wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 08:26

Bob Boyd wrote on Sat, 30 August 2008 20:36


And I love how everyone who is pro-choice misses the beginning of human life (that's us)

Which is when exactly?

From personal experience, I think its when the man and woman meet, but one could argue that its when the parents are born, or conceived, or when their parents meet...

This is a discussion of the spiritual perspective on when life begins right? Its obviously not a scientific one.

I'm quoting myself here just to add that since what was raised was a spiritual matter, from that perspective ALL war, any killing of one person by another or by any group of people - including presidents and Joint Chiefs - prevents subsequent unknown generations from being born, therefore any act which prevents a potential birth is obviously a sin against god's word to go forth and multiply. So NO act of war, whether defensive or offensive, is exempt from the violation of god's word.

Surely there are no loopholes here, because those same loopholes would apply to individuals.

DS
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 31, 2008, 12:53:36 pm
Edvaard wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 03:51

J.J. Blair wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 03:31



But as far as having a fifth kid when you're 43, I'll give you another Bill Maher quote:

"Five kids?  Why is it that Republicans are so against the concept of pulling out?"





So now a woman choosing to have more than two kids, or having any at age 43, is considered as an acceptable point of derision?

I'll say, I do have trouble keeping up with the latest in this modern world.

I'm not sure if eagerness to do battle with Republicans is sufficient excuse to insult women, however.

If you claim to be pro choice (which I am), then why do you find the other side of the coin, i.e., the choice of how many children to have or when to have them, to be something worthy of ridicule?

I'm fairly certain that Bill Maher's writers were merely using the "five kids" part as opportunity for the double entendre "Why is it that Republicans are so against the concept of pulling out?" as a poke against the Iraq fiasco, not as insult to family choice.


That's exactly the point.  It was a double entendre about Iraq.  I was not insulting family choice.  You read way too much into it.  
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 31, 2008, 12:56:14 pm
mgod wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 09:20

Bob Boyd wrote on Sat, 30 August 2008 20:36

Say all you will about Sarah Palin.  Compare her's and her daughter's bodies all you want (seriously?).  Any person or any family that knows that they are having a down's syndrome baby and welcomes that child into the world with loving arms deserves our respect.

Yes, seriously. If its a lie to the nation on day one about the child being hers and not her daughter's (as the tale of her going back to Alaska to "give birth" suggests), it speaks to many issues - not the least of which is a pretentious and hypocritical "moral" stance. Known Down's babies are born into families every day. Families raising their underage daughter's children happens every day. Neither is a big deal. Exploiting it is. Lying about it is.

DS


I missed the angle you were going after there.  This is the first I heard about this.  I'll look into it.  

But the picture does raise an interesting question about her daughter's paunch:  Did she have too much moose, or too much moose knuckle?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_eeBrCFDUUOc/R9SMzjkqrLI/AAAAAAAAAUw/thEnzs9T7GY/s1600/PalinFamily.jpg
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Andy Peters on August 31, 2008, 12:56:41 pm
mgod wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 08:54

Not always.

 http://www.economist.com/opinion/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=1 2009710

DS


Speaking as one of his constituents (although of course in no way does he represent me), the Real McCain is a fucking carpetbagger who should've been sent to jail with the Keating Five.

-a
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Bob Boyd on August 31, 2008, 01:30:01 pm
J.J. Blair wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 02:31


And this qualifies her to president how?  So fucking what?

Well, that wasn't my point.  I was simply calling out a tendency on this thread to objectify her and criticize her pro-life stance.  Those that are quick to point out Republican hypocrisy should be happy that she not only talked the talk but walked the walk on this one.

I don't know much about her but much of what I've heard is impressive so far.  She took on a corrupt Republican establishment in Alaska (you like that, right?).  When she pointed it out, the Governor and Attorney General wanted to fine her.  She decided to go public.  The Attorney General ended up resigning and she ended up getting the Governor's job.  If that's indeed how it played out, that's pretty impressive.

As oil revenue - and therefore state revenue - went up, she gave $1200 back to each family to help offset expenses.

I'm not going to tell you she's perfect.  There's plenty to debate there.

Quote:

First off though, the law that counts it as two counts of murder was written by anti-abortion wing nuts taking advantage of the Lacy Peterson frenzy.  That law never should have been passed, and Democrats were too afraid to stand up to it at a time when people had no common sense, because they were so caught up in a sensational murder case.


Or was it just clearly an inconvenient truth?  There's not much difference between that child's death and the 4 that were tragically lost when their mother (a real religious nut) drowned them and is now serving time.  Sadly, unwanted lives were lost in both cases - given up by those that should have loved them the most.

Quote:

I'll give you another Bill Maher quote:

"Five kids?  Why is it that Republicans are so against the concept of pulling out?"

Oh, and another great point from Bill Maher:

"When Sarah Palin gets a 3am cal, it's because there's a moose in the garbage can."

Let me address one other thing.  To make some sort of jump between being pro-life and then imply that we want to send our brave men and women to their death is frankly insulting.  As the father of 4 boys, you can be sure that the possibility of sacrifice of life for country has crossed my mind.  I expect those kinds of comments from the mildly funny and completely disconnected Bill Maher but I'm betting you're smarter than that.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 31, 2008, 01:45:19 pm
Quote:

To make some sort of jump between being pro-life and then imply that we want to send our brave men and women to their death is frankly insulting.


No, I'm implying that the vast majority or pro-lifers were on the bandwagon to go to an unnecessary war in Iraq, where we killed lot of innocent Iraqis.  But of course you're thinking about the deaths of our kids, not theirs.  
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on August 31, 2008, 02:10:03 pm
Andy Peters wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 09:56


Speaking as one of his constituents (although of course in no way does he represent me), the Real McCain is a fucking carpetbagger who should've been sent to jail with the Keating Five.

-a

He's still the best his party has.

DS
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Bob Boyd on August 31, 2008, 02:24:39 pm
J.J. Blair wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 12:45

Quote:

To make some sort of jump between being pro-life and then imply that we want to send our brave men and women to their death is frankly insulting.


No, I'm implying that the vast majority or pro-lifers were on the bandwagon to go to an unnecessary war in Iraq, where we killed lot of innocent Iraqis.  But of course you're thinking about the deaths of our kids, not theirs.  

If you meant that critically, your assumptions continue to amaze me.  All life is important JJ.  

Which brings us full circle.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on August 31, 2008, 02:40:01 pm
Bob Boyd wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 11:24

If you meant that critically, your assumptions continue to amaze me.  All life is important JJ.  

Which brings us full circle.

Exactly - how is that a woman can be so certain about the immorality of other women, and yet brag with such glee about sending her child to kill innocents in a country that never attacked us? Where is the defensible regard for the importance of all life? If he ends up killing more than one person, wouldn't it have been morally better if she had aborted him instead?

DS
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on August 31, 2008, 03:22:41 pm
TPM - Getting Real About Palin

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/211769.php
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Andy Peters on August 31, 2008, 03:30:33 pm
mgod wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 11:10

Andy Peters wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 09:56


Speaking as one of his constituents (although of course in no way does he represent me), the Real McCain is a fucking carpetbagger who should've been sent to jail with the Keating Five.

-a

He's still the best his party has.


That's a scathing indictment.

-a
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: organica on August 31, 2008, 04:10:33 pm
If only McCain or Obama would've chosen "Do The Hustle" for their campaign theme song , I'd have a little respect for one of them .

Is this really the best the lefties & the righties can do for candidates ? Really ?
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Jay Kadis on August 31, 2008, 05:00:44 pm
groundhog wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 13:10

If only McCain or Obama would've chosen "Do The Hustle" for their campaign theme song , I'd have a little respect for one of them .

Is this really the best the lefties & the righties can do for candidates ? Really ?
The dendency to cite "lefties" and "righties" is exactly why no useful information ever gets exchanged.  Let's just think in terms of actual answers to specific problems and maybe we'll get something done.  Politics has taken on all the gravitas of McDonalds commercials and that is guaranteed to produce nothing but sniping.

The fact that these candidates are offered up as the best out of 300 million people is exasperating.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: organica on August 31, 2008, 05:16:18 pm
Jay Kadis wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 17:00

groundhog wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 13:10

If only McCain or Obama would've chosen "Do The Hustle" for their campaign theme song , I'd have a little respect for one of them .

Is this really the best the lefties & the righties can do for candidates ? Really ?
The dendency to cite "lefties" and "righties" is exactly why no useful information ever gets exchanged.  Let's just think in terms of actual answers to specific problems and maybe we'll get something done.  Politics has taken on all the gravitas of McDonalds commercials and that is guaranteed to produce nothing but sniping.

The fact that these candidates are offered up as the best out of 300 million people is exasperating.

I couldn't agree more  . But the brainwash is ancient and likely impossible to decode and lay to rest . Still , Obama ? McCain ? Palin looks like a better choice overall to me . But then , I don't have time to look at it very well right now  . I hope that hurricane slows down .
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: PookyNMR on August 31, 2008, 06:20:17 pm
J.J. Blair wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 11:45

No, I'm implying that the vast majority or pro-lifers were on the bandwagon to go to an unnecessary war in Iraq, where we killed lot of innocent Iraqis.


While that may be true of 'some' vocal groups of people, I don't at all believe that generalization to be true by a long shot.  

I know many, many groups of people who are pro-life AND highly opposed to the Iraq war - and that includes many groups of Christians that many folks seem to love to unfairly shit on with generalizations because of a few vocal groups.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 31, 2008, 09:50:41 pm
Nathan, are you talking about Canadians or Americans?  Because they were pretty fucking gung ho down here, particular the bible toting Bushies. .  Even people I would not have expected to be gung ho were.  Us going to war almost ended some good friendships I had.  
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 31, 2008, 09:53:13 pm
Bob Boyd wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 11:24

J.J. Blair wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 12:45

Quote:

To make some sort of jump between being pro-life and then imply that we want to send our brave men and women to their death is frankly insulting.


No, I'm implying that the vast majority or pro-lifers were on the bandwagon to go to an unnecessary war in Iraq, where we killed lot of innocent Iraqis.  But of course you're thinking about the deaths of our kids, not theirs.  

If you meant that critically, your assumptions continue to amaze me.  All life is important JJ.  

Which brings us full circle.


Hey, you're the one who only mentioned our kids.  I'm just saying, if all life as is important as the people who have ending abortion such a high priority, then they need to be equally as vocal about killing Iraqis and the death penalty.  
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: jimlongo on August 31, 2008, 10:42:50 pm
PookyNMR wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 18:20

J.J. Blair wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 11:45

No, I'm implying that the vast majority or pro-lifers were on the bandwagon to go to an unnecessary war in Iraq, where we killed lot of innocent Iraqis.


While that may be true of 'some' vocal groups of people, I don't at all believe that generalization to be true by a long shot.  

I know many, many groups of people who are pro-life AND highly opposed to the Iraq war - and that includes many groups of Christians that many folks seem to love to unfairly shit on with generalizations because of a few vocal groups.


In that case it's time for the fair minded Christian minority to stand up and silence the bigots and hypocrites in their midst.  Otherwise it's only fair that you get tarred and feathered with the same brush.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Barry Hufker on September 01, 2008, 12:15:34 am
"Otherwise it's only fair that you get tarred and feathered with the same Bush."

Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: MagnetoSound on September 01, 2008, 05:46:10 am
PookyNMR wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 23:20

I know many, many groups of people who are pro-life AND highly opposed to the Iraq war - and that includes many groups of Christians that many folks seem to love to unfairly shit on with generalizations because of a few vocal groups.




Hey, don't blame it on the vocal groups!


index.php/fa/9822/0/


Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Bill_Urick on September 01, 2008, 08:19:25 am
Good morning all. I hope everyone is having a nice holiday week-end. Special thanks to JJ for responding to my criticism with with his usual good humor.

Ready for some spot on analysis of the presidential race?

Prior to the VP selection Obama had it hands down.

Why?

Hard line Dems wouldn't vote for any one else.

Moderates have always liked McCain but also like the idea of change, both from the Reps and from old white guys holding the executive branch.

Full on right wingers have never liked McCain and lots of
disaffected Reps might not have even bothered to vote.

Post VP selection?

First bear in mind that the presidential race is a beauty contest. It's more important to be pretty and well spoken than it is to be qualified, whatever that means. Also bear in mind that the electorate has a history of going for former governors, even those from perceived "small" and "backward" states.

So what did Obama accomplish by selecting Biden?

I don't see Biden energising any Dem power-base that wasn't already going for Obama, so that's a neutral. Those disaffected Reps on the other hand are going to associate Biden with the old Gephardt/Daschle regime and are going to be energised to keep Biden as far as possible from the presidency.  

Some moderates at least are going to see the presidential field as three Senators, two of them big time Washington insiders and two of them lawyers and will perceive Palin as a breath of fresh air. It won't hurt that she will have a son in the military.

One other thing. Just a theory, but a correct one, I believe.
Quite a few blue collar as well as "country club" Democrats are closet racists. Particularly in the north-east. In the privacy of the voting booth they're going to go for the Vietnam hero and pal of Ted Kennedy (he's not really evil, like all those other Republicans) and the pretty little lady from Alaska, with the kid in Iraq. And they may not even be honest with themselves about why they did it.

Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: PaulyD on September 01, 2008, 09:01:41 am
Nothing like an election year to bring out the best in all of us, huh?
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: bblackwood on September 01, 2008, 09:44:35 am
PaulyD wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 08:01

Nothing like an election year to bring out the best in all of us, huh?

Indeed. This thread is a depressing microcosm of the world around us now - completely polarized and full of vitriol.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: John Ivan on September 01, 2008, 10:06:02 am
Well, yes. Sad times..

I believe that it is the duty of every American to be openly Pissed off about the fact that Criminals are running the country..

There is absolutely no reason to pretend like the Republican party deserves polite conversation at all.. I am not kidding one little bit when I say they should sit down and shut up.. In the corner..

Voting for a Republican this time around is dangerous and stupid, and I question personally, the motives of all who plan on doing so. Shame on you..

Ivan...............
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Barry Hufker on September 01, 2008, 10:42:05 am
I don't mind expressing vitriol.  Better to air it here than in some less acceptable form.  A LOT of people are pissed off with the way this country has been run into the ground by the Republicans and Bush/Cheney in particular.

There is a wound to be cleaned.  There is a great deal of infection in it.  This process is not going to be pleasant no matter how one looks at it.  The country is polarized and the Republicans are the ones who made it that way.  An extreme Republican agenda has created an extreme response (of which I'm a member).  I will NOT have my country destroyed by this awful group of selfish assholes.

I'm constantly amazed that anyone associates McCain with change.  What change will he bring?  100 years in Iraq - that was going to be different.  Safeguarding big oil - there's a change.  The list goes on.  McCain is the biggest sham.  The man suffered for serving his country.  That is a HUGE thing to have done but it doesn't qualify him for president nor does it cover his multitude of political sins.

Of the two candidates, Obama has taken the high road in his ads while McCain followed the Rove playbook of attacking Obama's patriotism until Obama called him on it.

A slogan to remember: Obama's got class.  McCain's an ass.

If the election is a beauty contest (and I suppose it is to some), then McCain is the Elephant Man (my sincere, profound apologies to John Merick).

Every word Ivan writes is one I echo.


 
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 01, 2008, 11:10:32 am
Bill_Urick wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 05:19


Ready for some spot on analysis of the presidential race?

A self-declaration of being spot on, followed by a heavy dose of spot remover.

Actual - not self-deluded - spot on:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/opinion/31rich.html?

DS
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 01, 2008, 11:13:18 am
bblackwood wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 06:44


Indeed. This thread is a depressing microcosm of the world around us now - completely polarized and full of vitriol.

You can thank Richard Nixon, Lee Atwater, Dick Cheney and Karl Rove for that. It was deliberate. When divided we fall, someone stands to gain.

DS
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Larrchild on September 01, 2008, 11:34:48 am
Starting with the "Contract with America", which created the house and senate majority, to the two GOP presidential victories in 2000 and 2004, Republicans have been acting like lions with fresh zebra blood on their chops. "We will now run the country Our Way, and there will be a permanent republican administration"

Sadly, that hubris, combined with scouring Pat Robertson's Law School for people to replace perfectly qualified and dedicated individuals with idiots, has brought us to this point.

Yeah, I'm, mad.

Call it vitriol, but I want Payback.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: bblackwood on September 01, 2008, 12:01:57 pm
Well, as a moderate (read: neither a McCain nor Obama supporter), I find it difficult to get behind either extreme. Don't you think that by discussing things rationally there's at least a better chance of pulling the country back together? The USA can never reach it's potential with this much animosity displayed (by both extremes).

Whose fault it is no longer matters - it's up to us to be able to discuss things civilly in an attempt to sway others to our viewpoints. I humbly suggest no one will change their opinion while be shouted at with such derision, deserved or not...
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: jimlongo on September 01, 2008, 12:13:13 pm
I understand the emotion, can't we all get along . . . but how many times do you expect the democrats to do this only to have the republicans cheat, lie and steal (all the while smiling and laughing) before we feel that the only way to win is to play the same game.  

The vitriol in this thread is irrelevant.  I've seen nothing but class and restraint from Obama.  If he wins watch to see any of the same from republicans.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Barry Hufker on September 01, 2008, 12:27:30 pm
I'm sorry Brad, but the pendulum swung to one extreme and by nature it's going to the other before it can settle somewhere near the middle.

This is not the time to negotiate anything.  This is the time to fight to recapture what used to be middle ground.  None of us who care is going to let middle ground be right of center.  And most of us want middle ground now to be left of center.  That is the country's attitude having been raped by the Republicans.

There will be time for conversation, negotiation and moderation.  Right now it is time to recapture the flag and there is no compromise or discussion about that.  You don't negotiate with the people who shredded The Constitution and The Bill of Rights.

At the moment this is an ideological war and the Dems are dead-set on not losing (I'd like to say we want to win but "not losing" is a reasonable goal at the moment).

Republicans could have had real political conversation any time they wanted it and they never did.  They filibustered EVERY bill the Dems put forth.  That used to happen once in a while but it became standard procedure.  Nope.  No middle ground.  No prisoners.  No compromise.  No relenting.

The Presidency, the House and the Senate.  Capturing those is our goal.  It is this country's best hope at the moment.  With this accomplished maybe the Republicans will be humbled a bit, will grow up some and will want to return to politics as practiced by adults.

Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Rader Ranch on September 01, 2008, 12:29:17 pm
female galdiator? Laughing

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/4628/sarahpalinla4.png
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 01, 2008, 12:47:37 pm
bblackwood wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 09:01


Whose fault it is no longer matters -

Whose fault it is is extremely important right now, has never mattered more - because now is when we're making a decision based on performance of duties.

DS
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: organica on September 01, 2008, 12:48:41 pm
mgod wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 11:13

bblackwood wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 06:44


Indeed. This thread is a depressing microcosm of the world around us now - completely polarized and full of vitriol.

You can thank Richard Nixon, Lee Atwater, Dick Cheney and Karl Rove for that. It was deliberate. When divided we fall, someone stands to gain.

DS

That's a little like saying that you're not responsible for your own behavior ?  ..... minus  the "When divided we fall, someone stands to gain." part .

In my little world , I'll  get together with family members ( my grandfather who has now passed was an advisor for Nixon & Ford . He helped get us out of Vietnam and had something to do with agriculture .... ) hear the way they talk and think to myself , "no way I could ever be a Republican" . I'll then read a thread much like this and quickly realize , " no way I could ever be a Democrat  " . What's additionally interesting 2 me it that you take away the politics and you see how many good people there are that will never get to know each other because of  their supposed core beliefs . It's got to be tough to get an open-minded view from such a perspective .  

 I'm currently intrigued by Palin's potential , even if she were Obama's veep choice . I think that might be the best combo of the 4 really .    
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: bblackwood on September 01, 2008, 12:57:07 pm
Fair enough, feel free to continue attacking each other - it takes two to fight. Division has never been helpful in healing societal issues.

I'll just sit here and watch the two extremes lob verbal grenades at one another, wondering where all the moderates have gone.

Have fun.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: jimlongo on September 01, 2008, 01:01:05 pm
I guess the moderates can't be bothered.  There at a picnic.  If they're really moderate they won't care about this particular debate.  The world is a lot bigger than the internet.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Larrchild on September 01, 2008, 01:06:46 pm
I just don't see any evidence of the GOP owning their failures on this thread.
So we remind them.
And it comes off as angry.

And this really does feel like a war. I remember a different country just a decade ago.

External factors have shaped that.
But internal factors have done so more.


Enough.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Barry Hufker on September 01, 2008, 01:09:48 pm
bblackwood wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 11:57

Fair enough, feel free to continue attacking each other - it takes two to fight. Division has never been helpful in healing societal issues.

I'll just sit here and watch the two extremes lob verbal grenades at one another, wondering where all the moderates have gone.

Have fun.


So the moderate runs?? (How's that for a verbal lob?!)

Barry
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: PookyNMR on September 01, 2008, 01:10:10 pm
J.J. Blair wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 19:50

Nathan, are you talking about Canadians or Americans?  Because they were pretty fucking gung ho down here, particular the bible toting Bushies. .  Even people I would not have expected to be gung ho were.  Us going to war almost ended some good friendships I had.  



JJ-

Not just Canada.  Americans as well.

I know of quite a number of Christian groups in the USA and a number of profile leaders that are very opposed to the war in Iraq.  These groups range from very conservative liturgical groups through mennonites through 'emergents' all the way through to some of the charismatic groups and everything in between.  

The big difference is that these church groups and leaders are not political lobby organizations (like FOTF in the case of this discussion).  They don't seek national air time.  They don't seek out newspaper space.  They focus their attention on loving God and loving their neighbors in practical ways.

Don't be fooled.  Just because some groups get air time does not by any means indicate that the represent any kind of a majority.

In America, you will however find that these 'religious organizations' do indeed have significant infiltration and influence among a number of groups / denominations.  The campaign for single issue voting, unfortunately, has been a little too successful.




Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Barry Hufker on September 01, 2008, 01:15:10 pm
There's no sin in being angry.  There is such a thing as "just (read righteous) anger".  Even the Bible says "be angry but sin not".

Jesus was righteously angry when he threw the money changers out of the temple.

While I don't compare us to Christ by any means, it will be that same kind of just anger that throws the Republicans out on their asses.  People who abuse others shouldn't be tolerated.  People who abuse an entire country deserve what they get.

And if this country is stupid enough to vote Republicans in then it deserves what it gets.  Anyone whose eyes haven't been opened in the last eight years deserves the hell they elect.  Aborted babies won't be the worst thing happening to this nation.

You know... 8 years ago I couldn't have given a shit about politics.  I voted but I never followed any political issue very deeply.  When the Republicans are the minority I hope to be that person again.

Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Larrchild on September 01, 2008, 01:16:38 pm
The Republican base is now mainly "Moral Conservatives", who, while not always single issue voters, will consistently ignore people who could serve extraordinarily well, because of issues that are not fully related to running the country well.
That's a real problem for the GOP.

The Fiscal Conservatives and Foreign Policy Conservatives are being outnumbered by a group they courted in the 80's (Moral Conservatives) and have now started telling them what to do.

bad.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: PookyNMR on September 01, 2008, 01:23:14 pm
jimlongo wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 20:42

PookyNMR wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 18:20

J.J. Blair wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 11:45

No, I'm implying that the vast majority or pro-lifers were on the bandwagon to go to an unnecessary war in Iraq, where we killed lot of innocent Iraqis.


While that may be true of 'some' vocal groups of people, I don't at all believe that generalization to be true by a long shot.  

I know many, many groups of people who are pro-life AND highly opposed to the Iraq war - and that includes many groups of Christians that many folks seem to love to unfairly shit on with generalizations because of a few vocal groups.


In that case it's time for the fair minded Christian minority to stand up and silence the bigots and hypocrites in their midst.  Otherwise it's only fair that you get tarred and feathered with the same brush.


Given the stats that I've seen from places like the Barna Group (highly respected researchers), these fair minded Christians are not the minority.

In fact, Christians (as a whole) have swayed more towards democrats than republicans.  

It appears that even the hard core 'evangelicals' are shifting their support away from the republicans.

It is just certain segments that are heavily 'republicanized' and those who have given into the idea of single issue voting.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 01, 2008, 01:40:19 pm
PookyNMR wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 10:23

It is just certain segments that are heavily 'republicanized' and those who have given into the idea of single issue voting.

And they're still very well funded, but it would seem most of their tax-exempt funding comes from a general audience that was given the moral turpitude itch by an alliance of greedy media "christian" megastars and the Roves among us. Like I said, someone benefits, and moderates and their relevancy are squeezed out. Enjoy the sidelines, irrelevance and your lack of opinion. Its not an alternative to anger, its a refusal to be engaged. Very buddhist. But this is a time to take a little bit of action, and not be manipulated.

DS
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: jimlongo on September 01, 2008, 01:46:13 pm
PookyNMR wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 13:23

jimlongo wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 20:42

PookyNMR wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 18:20

J.J. Blair wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 11:45

No, I'm implying that the vast majority or pro-lifers were on the bandwagon to go to an unnecessary war in Iraq, where we killed lot of innocent Iraqis.


While that may be true of 'some' vocal groups of people, I don't at all believe that generalization to be true by a long shot.  

I know many, many groups of people who are pro-life AND highly opposed to the Iraq war - and that includes many groups of Christians that many folks seem to love to unfairly shit on with generalizations because of a few vocal groups.


In that case it's time for the fair minded Christian minority to stand up and silence the bigots and hypocrites in their midst.  Otherwise it's only fair that you get tarred and feathered with the same brush.


Given the stats that I've seen from places like the Barna Group (highly respected researchers), these fair minded Christians are not the minority.

In fact, Christians (as a whole) have swayed more towards democrats than republicans.  

It appears that even the hard core 'evangelicals' are shifting their support away from the republicans.

It is just certain segments that are heavily 'republicanized' and those who have given into the idea of single issue voting.


I'd like to believe that polling data as well  (I posted it earlier in another thread), but I'll believe it when I see it.
Please note that evangelicals are overwhehlingly republican single issue voters.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: bblackwood on September 01, 2008, 01:56:03 pm
mgod wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 12:40

Like I said, someone benefits, and moderates and their relevancy are squeezed out. Enjoy the sidelines, irrelevance and your lack of opinion. Its not an alternative to anger, its a refusal to be engaged. Very buddhist. But this is a time to take a little bit of action, and not be manipulated.

Deciding to avoid the crap-slinging and actually discuss the issues without attacking people is not 'sitting it out', but continue painting with broad brush strokes assuming your generalities are accurate. Nothing I say will stop you from doing that anyway, which is why I won't try.

Cheers,
Title: American Family Values
Post by: cerberus on September 01, 2008, 01:56:03 pm
a blessing: http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display .jsp?vnu_content_id=1003844555

so will they be playing: "white wedding" in the convention hall?

jeff dinces
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 01, 2008, 03:16:42 pm
bblackwood wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 10:56


Deciding to avoid the crap-slinging and actually discuss the issues without attacking people is not 'sitting it out', but continue painting with broad brush strokes assuming your generalities are accurate. Nothing I say will stop you from doing that anyway, which is why I won't try.

Cheers,
I guess you haven't noticed my historically favorable inclination toward the GOP candidate. It leads me to wonder about these generalities you mention. However, saying something substantial or specific might indicate that there's more going on here than sweeping generalities.

DS
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 01, 2008, 03:48:57 pm
"Tonight, I say to the people of America, to Democrats and Republicans and Independents across this great land—enough! This moment—this election—is our chance to keep, in the twenty-first century, the American promise alive. Because next week, in Minnesota, the same party that brought you two terms of George Bush and Dick Cheney will ask this country for a third. And we are here because we love this country too much to let the next four years look just like the last eight. On November 4th, we must stand up and say: “Eight is enough.”

In the meantime, Palin on Obama:

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/2008/09/08/080908ta_talk_goure vitch?
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Rader Ranch on September 01, 2008, 04:09:29 pm
I never noticed that the little one was preparing to set the whole damn crowd on fire...they were lucky to escape with their lives.

http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/photoessay_4986_images/0901081320_M_090108_palinfamily11.jpg
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Andy Peters on September 01, 2008, 04:37:25 pm
Bill_Urick wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 05:19

Moderates have always liked McCain but also like the idea of change, both from the Reps and from old white guys holding the executive branch.


Moderates have always like the "idea" of McCain, and by that I mean his self-described "maverick" status, one which is enabled by media fluffers.

But the reality of McCain is diametrically opposed to his media image.

He is no friend of the working man.

He is no friend of the injured war veteran.

He is no friend of women, or minorities.

Just look at his voting record. (Or at least the record on votes when he bothered to show up.)

McCain hasn't done squat for the citizens of Arizona, whom he purports to represent in the Senate.

-a
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Larrchild on September 01, 2008, 04:37:33 pm
Quote:

I'm currently intrigued by Palin's potential , even if she were Obama's veep choice . I think that might be the best combo of the 4 really .


I disagree, because one of the two should have a full understanding of how to maneuver the jagged rocks of Congress to get things done.

JFK was a senator, but LBJ was a crafty old one.
(who conveniently carried the south!)
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 01, 2008, 04:53:15 pm
Here's a thought-provoking piece this weekend from the NYT mag:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/magazine/31wwln-lede-t.htm l?

The chart is especially interesting to me as was this:

"But if the desire for democracy is already innate in Georgians (or Darfuris or Iraqis or Kosovars), then all they really need from us is our big army and our PR skills. They don’t need our “leadership,” except in the sense of the phrase attributed to the French republican leader Alexandre Ledru-Rollin, who supposedly said of his unruly bloc of radical workers after the revolution of 1848, “I am their leader; I must follow them.” "

I suppose history will show whether or not Bush's refusal to lead by following was a good thing or bad thing. We've certainly had exceptionally fine presidents who really did lead. America in the 21st century may be paying the price in many respects for its wild and self-interested interventionism in the 20th, during which we had little respect for democratic principles. A shame that we and our kids will literally be paying for the acts of our predecessors, if that's true.

Also a good if long piece, lots of insight into Bush:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/magazine/31bush-t.html?

DS
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 01, 2008, 05:28:22 pm
Another reason it matters. To most of us anyway:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/business/31view.html?
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: jimlongo on September 01, 2008, 05:57:23 pm
Republican/AARP poll respondents see Palin as a gimmick pick.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: bjornson on September 01, 2008, 08:39:38 pm
J.J. Blair wrote on Sat, 30 August 2008 01:25

I wonder if anybody went with the headline "McCain taps Palin."

I'd tap it.

She's  a full on cougar.  Grrrrrrrr.....

If I were McLazarus, I'd have put it this way:
"FInally, a vice presidential candidate with a face you'd want to spooge on."


Core conscience?
Don't I remember you getting married recently?
Nice......
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: J.J. Blair on September 01, 2008, 10:17:56 pm
bjornson wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 17:39


Core conscience?
Don't I remember you getting married recently?
Nice......



A) Core conscience?  Really?  A dirty sense of humor means I don't have morals or a relationship with my creator?  My sense of humor was greatly influenced by Frank Zappa, who was a greater man, and was a more ethical and conscientious person than John McCain, Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich and Ralph Reed, all put together.
B) Four years ago is not recent.
C) Married or not, I can joke about wanting to fuck my dead grandma or Sarah Palin, if I feel like it.  Just because some of you guys had to put your testicles (as well as your sense of humor) in a jar when you got married doesn't mean you get to pass judgement on those of us who didn't.  

Aren't you a nosey so and so.  Take your finger waving shame, and stick it up your ass.

Really.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: jimlongo on September 01, 2008, 10:34:21 pm
Palin is a secessioinist
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: J.J. Blair on September 01, 2008, 11:01:21 pm
jimlongo wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 19:34

Palin is a secessioinist


Like I said, Who the fuck vetted this pick?

If this is the type of due diligence we can expect from Mc Lazarus, you'd have to be insane to vote for him.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Bill_Urick on September 01, 2008, 11:10:17 pm
J.J. Blair wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 22:17

  My sense of humor was greatly influenced by Frank Zappa, who was a greater man, and was a more ethical and conscientious person than John McCain, Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich and Ralph Reed, all put together.



Totally with you on this, but could we perhaps add one or two Dems to the list?

I know you guys think I'm a card carrying Republican, but I was predicting the behavior of the electorate, not voicing my opinion on the candidates.

I'm not sure where I fit in. What party is comprised of pro-choice, anti-capital punishment, nationalistic, capitalist, strict constructionist Jeffersonians who favor a national health care plan?

Send me some literature, please.


Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: jimlongo on September 01, 2008, 11:19:35 pm
J.J. Blair wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 23:01

jimlongo wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 19:34

Palin is a secessioinist


Like I said, Who the fuck vetted this pick?

If this is the type of due diligence we can expect from Mc Lazarus, you'd have to be insane to vote for him.


According to Sidney Blumenthal
"On Palin: My information is that Karl Rove wanted Romney and pushed him. McCain pushed back. He really wanted Lieberman. That was completely out of the question. Palin is the result. One element of the Palin nomination is McCain establishing himself apart from the Bush/Rove political operation, even as his campaign manager, Steve Schmidt, is one of their creatures. From the outside, it’s often hard to figure out how vicious and divided the Republicans can be with each other."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sidney-blumenthal/why-palin-mc cain-v-rove_b_122841.html
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 02, 2008, 01:03:05 am
Bill_Urick wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 20:10


I'm not sure where I fit in. What party is comprised of pro-choice, anti-capital punishment, nationalistic, capitalist, strict constructionist Jeffersonians who favor a national health care plan?

Send me some literature, please.

Isn't that pretty close to officially Libertarian? Except for the health care.

DS
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Barry Hufker on September 02, 2008, 01:21:00 am
I believe Sarah Palin is about to find this moment as the highlight and lowlight of her political career.  She was stupid to accept and when all is said and done, she'll be lucky if she's re-elected governor.



Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Larrchild on September 02, 2008, 01:28:06 am
Quote:

jimlongo wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 19:34

Palin is a secessioinist




If at first you don't secede..


Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Andy Peters on September 02, 2008, 01:35:50 am
Barry Hufker wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 22:21

I believe Sarah Palin is about to find this moment as the highlight and lowlight of her political career.  She was stupid to accept and when all is said and done, she'll be lucky if she's re-elected governor.


If not impeached.

-a
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Barry Hufker on September 02, 2008, 01:37:16 am
I love the way you think!

Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: J.J. Blair on September 02, 2008, 02:22:14 am
Bill_Urick wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 20:10

J.J. Blair wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 22:17

  My sense of humor was greatly influenced by Frank Zappa, who was a greater man, and was a more ethical and conscientious person than John McCain, Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich and Ralph Reed, all put together.



Totally with you on this, but could we perhaps add one or two Dems to the list?

I know you guys think I'm a card carrying Republican, but I was predicting the behavior of the electorate, not voicing my opinion on the candidates.

I'm not sure where I fit in. What party is comprised of pro-choice, anti-capital punishment, nationalistic, capitalist, strict constructionist Jeffersonians who favor a national health care plan?


Bill, I'm not, nor have I ever been a Democrat.  I used to be a registered Republican, actually.  I even sent McLazarus $1,000 in 2000.

OK, let's add Bill Clinton, Charlie Rangle and Terry McAuliffe to the list.  (Or however you spell his name.)
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: J.J. Blair on September 02, 2008, 02:26:00 am
jimlongo wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 20:19



According to Sidney Blumenthal
"On Palin: My information is that Karl Rove wanted Romney and pushed him. McCain pushed back. He really wanted Lieberman. That was completely out of the question. Palin is the result. One element of the Palin nomination is McCain establishing himself apart from the Bush/Rove political operation, even as his campaign manager, Steve Schmidt, is one of their creatures. From the outside, it’s often hard to figure out how vicious and divided the Republicans can be with each other."

 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sidney-blumenthal/why-palin-mc cain-v-rove_b_122841.html



McCain was told that there were be a fight on the floor of the convention against Lieberman, if he picked him.  He really wanted him, too.

This is good from   http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/the_ palin_meltdown_in_slomo.php


Quote:

The Palin Meltdown in Slo-Mo
By Greg Sargent - September 1, 2008, 6:20PM
On the same day that the Republicans were forced to dramatically cut back their convention activities, the Palin Meltdown unfolded with extraordinary speed. It's worth pondering the totality of what happened today, in a mere half day...

* The news that Palin once backed the Bridge to Nowhere went national.

* It emerged that Palin has links to the bizarro Alaska Independence Party, which harbors the goal of seceding from the union that McCain and Palin seek to lead.

* The news broke that as governor, Palin relied on an earmark system she now opposes. Taken along with the Bridge to Nowhere stuff, this threatens to undercut her reformist image, something that was key to her selection as McCain's Veep candidate.

* The news broke that Palin's 17-year-old daughter became pregnant out of wedlock at a time when the conservative base had finally started rallying behind McCain's candidacy.

* Barely moments after McCain advisers put out word that McCain had known of Bristol Palin's pregnancy, the Anchorage Daily News revealed that Palin's own spokesperson hadn't known about it only two days ago.

* A senior McCain adviser at the Republican convention was forced into the rather embarrassing position of arguing that McCain had known about the pregnancy "last week" -- without saying what day last week he knew about it.

* It came out that Republican lawyers are up in Alaska vetting Palin -- now, more than 72 hours after it was announced that she'd been picked.

* Palin lawyered up in relation to the trooper-gate probe in Alaska -- a move that ensures far more serious attention to the story from the major news orgs.

What else will come out today? After all, there are still six hours left until September 2nd...
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Bill_Urick on September 02, 2008, 07:10:32 am
J.J. Blair wrote on Tue, 02 September 2008 02:22

Bill_Urick wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 20:10

J.J. Blair wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 22:17

  My sense of humor was greatly influenced by Frank Zappa, who was a greater man, and was a more ethical and conscientious person than John McCain, Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich and Ralph Reed, all put together.



Totally with you on this, but could we perhaps add one or two Dems to the list?

I know you guys think I'm a card carrying Republican, but I was predicting the behavior of the electorate, not voicing my opinion on the candidates.

I'm not sure where I fit in. What party is comprised of pro-choice, anti-capital punishment, nationalistic, capitalist, strict constructionist Jeffersonians who favor a national health care plan?


Bill, I'm not, nor have I ever been a Democrat.  I used to be a registered Republican, actually.  I even sent McLazarus $1,000 in 2000.

OK, let's add Bill Clinton, Charlie Rangle and Terry McAuliffe to the list.  (Or however you spell his name.)


Just want to keep things balanced. That is, after all, an engineers primary job.

Plenty of malfeasance to go around.

Keep it greasy...


Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 02, 2008, 09:48:34 am
So  now that you guys have made all nice, can we vote for Zappa?

A Republican dead head?  Hard to grasp.

BTW, I never voted for Bill Clinton but in hindsight he's looking pretty damn good.

DS
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: garret on September 02, 2008, 10:45:56 am
A picture is worth 1000 words...

index.php/fa/9828/0/
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: ssltech on September 02, 2008, 11:20:25 am
index.php/fa/9829/0/

Yep.

-That's the big city, right there.

-With some o' dem fancy big city types, ridin' right by.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Barry Hufker on September 02, 2008, 11:37:27 am
J.J. a registered Republican??  Oh.... I feel woozy.  The world is spinning a little off its axis...

Maybe it was just "youthful indiscretion"... you know a teenage kind of VUI (voting under the influence)...

Palin..... hahahahaha.... that still cracks me up....

OK, so who's the real VP nominee they announced at the convention?


Oh, it really is Palin.....



hahahahahahahahaha
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: bblackwood on September 02, 2008, 11:44:23 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RN5xbWtNSU

Just sayin'...
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: PRobb on September 02, 2008, 12:03:07 pm
J.J. Blair wrote on Tue, 02 September 2008 02:26

* The news that Palin once backed the Bridge to Nowhere went national.

* It emerged that Palin has links to the bizarro Alaska Independence Party, which harbors the goal of seceding from the union that McCain and Palin seek to lead.

* The news broke that as governor, Palin relied on an earmark system she now opposes. Taken along with the Bridge to Nowhere stuff, this threatens to undercut her reformist image, something that was key to her selection as McCain's Veep candidate.

* The news broke that Palin's 17-year-old daughter became pregnant out of wedlock at a time when the conservative base had finally started rallying behind McCain's candidacy.

* Barely moments after McCain advisers put out word that McCain had known of Bristol Palin's pregnancy, the Anchorage Daily News revealed that Palin's own spokesperson hadn't known about it only two days ago.

* A senior McCain adviser at the Republican convention was forced into the rather embarrassing position of arguing that McCain had known about the pregnancy "last week" -- without saying what day last week he knew about it.

* It came out that Republican lawyers are up in Alaska vetting Palin -- now, more than 72 hours after it was announced that she'd been picked.

* Palin lawyered up in relation to the trooper-gate probe in Alaska -- a move that ensures far more serious attention to the story from the major news orgs.

What else will come out today? After all, there are still six hours left until September 2nd...

Drip
Drip
Drip
Drip

Palin could turn out to be the gift that keeps on giving.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 02, 2008, 12:13:17 pm
Samantha Bee steps up for the Vagina-Americans:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=183521 &title=john-mccain-chooses-a-running
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: PookyNMR on September 02, 2008, 01:50:48 pm
jimlongo wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 11:46

PookyNMR wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 13:23

Given the stats that I've seen from places like the Barna Group (highly respected researchers), these fair minded Christians are not the minority.

In fact, Christians (as a whole) have swayed more towards democrats than republicans.  

It appears that even the hard core 'evangelicals' are shifting their support away from the republicans.

It is just certain segments that are heavily 'republicanized' and those who have given into the idea of single issue voting.


I'd like to believe that polling data as well  (I posted it earlier in another thread), but I'll believe it when I see it.
Please note that evangelicals are overwhehlingly republican single issue voters.


It's also important to note a few other things.  

The Barna research group has 9 specific criteria to specify exactly what is meant by classifying someone as an 'evangelical.'  This classification is very different than what the ignorant media does with their inaccurate blanket classification of groups as 'evangelicals.'

Another thing worthy of note is that a number of the statistics that Barna quotes are actual number from historical events (stats from previous votes).


Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Kris on September 02, 2008, 01:54:49 pm
J.J. Blair wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 12:56

mgod wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 09:20

Bob Boyd wrote on Sat, 30 August 2008 20:36

Say all you will about Sarah Palin.  Compare her's and her daughter's bodies all you want (seriously?).  Any person or any family that knows that they are having a down's syndrome baby and welcomes that child into the world with loving arms deserves our respect.

Yes, seriously. If its a lie to the nation on day one about the child being hers and not her daughter's (as the tale of her going back to Alaska to "give birth" suggests), it speaks to many issues - not the least of which is a pretentious and hypocritical "moral" stance. Known Down's babies are born into families every day. Families raising their underage daughter's children happens every day. Neither is a big deal. Exploiting it is. Lying about it is.

DS


I missed the angle you were going after there.  This is the first I heard about this.  I'll look into it.  

But the picture does raise an interesting question about her daughter's paunch:  Did she have too much moose, or too much moose knuckle?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_eeBrCFDUUOc/R9SMzjkqrLI/AAAAAAAAAUw/thEnzs9T7GY/s1600/PalinFamily.jpg

Shocked  Shocked  Shocked
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: John Ivan on September 02, 2008, 03:12:17 pm
bblackwood wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 12:57

Fair enough, feel free to continue attacking each other - it takes two to fight. Division has never been helpful in healing societal issues.

I'll just sit here and watch the two extremes lob verbal grenades at one another, wondering where all the moderates have gone.

Have fun.



Hi Brad,,

I know that you are speaking generally about this, but I also can see how this could be a note pointed right at my personal in box . I'm not saying it was, just that I have been very angry about all this and have no intention of backing off.

The problem is that by any measure, the extreme view points have been on the right {or, the successful ones have been}. History will point this out. Clinton was with out any doubt, an American moderate who was brought to his knees by an EXTREME point of view. It's worth noting that the neo-con movement is what made it impossible for moderates in both the republican and democratic parties to be heard.

This movement reached it's peak in the current administration where ideology is more important than competence, and how one feels about abortion and/or gay "unions" is more important than being able to effectively run the D.O.J.-.. FEMA, the F.A.A. or the legal office at the White House it's self.

If we take an honest look at the data, this administration has brought cronyism and incompetence to a new, very high level. A low point in our history to be sure.

I don't translate all that well around here because I spend a lot of time pushing hard for "Completely dismissing the republican party until they rebuild for eight years". One could think that I only have one side and that this is all I talk about and I walk around with a scowl on my face all the time.. NOT TRUE!! I'm really pretty happy go lucky. After all, I play music for a living..

Having said that, I believe we are talking about the survival of our way of life.. These people have nearly destroyed our reputation around the world.They have run the least effective foreign policy program maybe ever in our history, they have gutted the civil services, and have openly stated that big business is the tree from which wealth will trickle down to the masses. They have torn the Constitution to shreds.

They have used their supposed Faith as a weapon. A tool to make divisions that already exist to some extent in our nation even bigger.To the extent that they have begun realizing any real solutions to any real problems, they were dragged kicking and screaming to the table.

These people can not govern, and while I do not have hatred in my heart for Sen.McCain, I can't believe he has not aggressively stated that the Bush Administration has been a huge failure. Supporting this War is unacceptable and his comments on the Economy disqualify him.

I beg you and all others to listen very closely to what Sen. Obama has to say. Don't decide yet. Watch, wait and listen and make an honest decision on election day. Which of these two teams have the smarts, the good intentions, the ability to solve real problems, the ability to think creatively and quickly, a respect and understanding for other view points, a willingness to learn, and most of all an understanding of both world history, and the day to day lives of the American people, and how these two things collide to make our future.

To much has already been lost.

Ivan....................

 
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: bjornson on September 02, 2008, 03:47:52 pm
Quote:



A) Core conscience?  Really?  A dirty sense of humor means I don't have morals or a relationship with my creator?  My sense of humor was greatly influenced by Frank Zappa, who was a greater man, and was a more ethical and conscientious person than John McCain, Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich and Ralph Reed, all put together.
B) Four years ago is not recent.
C) Married or not, I can joke about wanting to fuck my dead grandma or Sarah Palin, if I feel like it.  Just because some of you guys had to put your testicles (as well as your sense of humor) in a jar when you got married doesn't mean you get to pass judgement on those of us who didn't.  

Aren't you a nosey so and so.  Take your finger waving shame, and stick it up your ass.

Really.

Easy cowboy,
Not being judgmental or nosey, not waving fingers.
Just noting that "core conscience" tends to be expressed in thought, word and deed.
Gotta go wash my finger.
Carry on Laughing


Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Steve Hudson on September 02, 2008, 03:48:34 pm
Here's a link to many more good links covering the Palin story:

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2008/09/links_to_th e_controversies_sur.html

I especially enjoyed reading about the recent graduation speech she gave where she said it was "God's will" that the corporations and citizens of Alaska come together to build a $30 billion natural gas pipeline, which would lead people in the Lower 48 to flock to Alaska "in the End Days."
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: ssltech on September 02, 2008, 03:50:04 pm
Come gather round people...
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Berolzheimer on September 02, 2008, 04:48:08 pm
John Ivan wrote on Tue, 02 September 2008 12:12

bblackwood wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 12:57

Fair enough, feel free to continue attacking each other - it takes two to fight. Division has never been helpful in healing societal issues.

I'll just sit here and watch the two extremes lob verbal grenades at one another, wondering where all the moderates have gone.

Have fun.


. It's worth noting that the neo-con movement is what made it impossible for moderates in both the republican and democratic parties to be heard.

 


John I agree with you on most things political but  not this statement.
I'd re-write it to say "It's worth noting that the neo-con movement is what made it impossible for moderates in the republican and anyone other than centrists in the democratic party to be heard. "  Obama is hardly extreme, I & most everyone I know hold views that are somewhat to the left of him.  Nonetheless I like him a lot & think he'll be a great president.


Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: John Ivan on September 02, 2008, 05:30:31 pm
Berolzheimer wrote on Tue, 02 September 2008 16:48

John Ivan wrote on Tue, 02 September 2008 12:12

bblackwood wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 12:57

Fair enough, feel free to continue attacking each other - it takes two to fight. Division has never been helpful in healing societal issues.

I'll just sit here and watch the two extremes lob verbal grenades at one another, wondering where all the moderates have gone.

Have fun.


. It's worth noting that the neo-con movement is what made it impossible for moderates in both the republican and democratic parties to be heard.

 


John I agree with you on most things political but  not this statement.
I'd re-write it to say "It's worth noting that the neo-con movement is what made it impossible for moderates in the republican and anyone other than centrists in the democratic party to be heard. "  Obama is hardly extreme, I & most everyone I know hold views that are somewhat to the left of him.  Nonetheless I like him a lot & think he'll be a great president.






Yes, and it's an important distinction you make here.

What were once seen as moderate and/or centrist views have been "Kidnapped" and suddenly shopped as extreme left view points.

Normalcy has been replaced by "Left Wing Nut Job" by the current republican party. Sadly, a good portion of the American People bought this twisting of reality hook line and sinker. For a while.

I'm hopeful that this is changing.

Ivan...............
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 02, 2008, 10:19:56 pm
The experience thing, settled:

http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/2/1613/27485/447/581295
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: J.J. Blair on September 02, 2008, 10:29:03 pm
bjornson wrote on Tue, 02 September 2008 12:47


Easy cowboy,
Not being judgmental or nosey, not waving fingers.
Just noting that "core conscience" tends to be expressed in thought, word and deed.
Gotta go wash my finger.
Carry on Laughing





Note whatever you want.  But I tell you what, you bring my personal life into this discussion again, it will be more than your finger you'll be pulling out of your ass.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 02, 2008, 10:44:19 pm
The entire remaining credibility of the republican party rests squarely here:

"I'm in a relationship but I don't want kids" says Bristol's boyfriend, now being forced to marry and have a kid.

"But I live to play hockey. I like to go camping and hang out with the boys, do some fishing, shoot some s- - - and just f - - -in' chillin' I guess."

"Ya f - - - with me I'll kick [your] ass," he added.

He also claims to be "in a relationship," but states, "I don't want kids."

  http://www.nypost.com/seven/09022008/news/nationalnews/palin _teen_has_baby_on_board_127096.htm?
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Barry Hufker on September 02, 2008, 10:51:26 pm
ABC News reports McCain is using his influence to keep the "Troopergate" (man I hate that idiotic "gate" they put on all scandals, dumb bastards)scandal report from coming out before November.

 http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/09/02/palin-lawyers-up-in -troopergate-probe-mccain-tries-to-delay-final-report-date/
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Bill_Urick on September 02, 2008, 10:51:56 pm
mgod wrote on Tue, 02 September 2008 09:48

...in hindsight he's looking pretty damn good.



Does this mean you think Bill has an attractive ass?



Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: rollmottle on September 03, 2008, 09:31:45 am
Quote:

“She is an aggressive reformer who isn’t afraid to break glass, to bring change to Wasilla and later to the state of Alaska,” said Taylor Griffin, a spokesman for the McCain campaign, who declined to address specific aspects of Ms. Palin’s tenure as mayor. “Washington needs some of that.”



Quote:

"And for some, Ms. Palin’s first months in office here were so jarring — and so alienating — that an effort was made to force a recall. About 100 people attended a meeting to discuss the effort, which was covered in the local press, but the idea was dropped.

Shortly after becoming mayor, former city officials and Wasilla residents said, Ms. Palin approached the town librarian about the possibility of banning some books, though she never followed through and it was unclear which books or passages were in question.

Ann Kilkenny, a Democrat who said she attended every City Council meeting in Ms. Palin’s first year in office, said Ms. Palin brought up the idea of banning some books at one meeting. “They were somehow morally or socially objectionable to her,” Ms. Kilkenny said.

The librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, pledged to “resist all efforts at censorship,” Ms. Kilkenny recalled. Ms. Palin fired Ms. Emmons shortly after taking office but changed course after residents made a strong show of support. Ms. Emmons, who left her job and Wasilla a couple of years later, declined to comment for this article.

Once in office, Ms. Palin asked many of Mr. Stein’s backers to resign — something virtually unheard of in Wasilla in past elections. The public works director, city planner, museum director and others were forced out. The police chief, Irl Stambaugh, was later fired outright."


 http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/03/us/politics/03wasilla.html ?exprod=myyahoo
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 03, 2008, 11:08:53 am
September 3, 2008
From the New York Times

Life of Her Party
By MAUREEN DOWD
ST. PAUL

For many years, reality was out of vogue with Republicans. They ignored the reality of Iraq and Katrina, of Pakistan and Osama bin Laden. When confronted with their colossal carelessness around the globe and here at home, their mantra was, as Rummy put it, “Stuff happens.”

Now reality, in all its messy, crazy, funky glory, has flooded the party, in the comely, crackling form of Sarah Palin.
Unable to stop the onslaught of wild soap opera storylines erupting from the Palin family and the Alaska wilderness, McCain campaign adviser Steve Schmidt offered caterwauling reporters a new mantra: “Life happens.”

Indeed, it does. Only four days into her reign as John McCain’s “soul mate,” or “Trophy Vice,” as some bloggers are calling her, on the ticket known as “Maverick Squared,” Palin, the governor of Alaska, has already accrued two gates (Troopergate and Broken-watergate), a lawyer (for Troopergate), a future son-in-law named Levi (a high school ice hockey player, described by New York magazine as “sex on skates”), and a National Enquirer headline about the “Teen Prego Crisis” with 17-year-old daughter Bristol.

It seems like a long time since Vice President Dan Quayle denounced Murphy Brown for having a baby out of wedlock, bemoaning a “poverty of values.” It also seems like a long time — and another McCain ago — that Republicans supporting W. smeared the old John McCain by spreading rumors that he had fathered an illegitimate black child.

This week, the anti-abortion forces celebrated the news of Bristol’s pregnancy, using it as further proof that their beloved Governor Palin — who will no more support sex education than polar bears — was committed to the cause.

Since John McCain played craps first and sent the vetters to Alaska afterward, Republicans have been defending Governor Palin by saying that, while she has no foreign policy experience — except, as Cindy McCain pointed out, that “Alaska is the closest part of our continent to Russia” — she has a lot of domestic policy experience as a supercharged P.T.A. and hockey mom.

As more and more titillating details spill out about the Palins, Republicans riposte by simply arguing that things like Todd’s old D.U.I. arrest or Sarah’s messy family vengeance story will just let them relate better to average Americans — unlike the lofty Obamas.

“If this doesn’t resonate with every woman in America, I’ll eat my hat,” Bill Noll, an Alaska delegate whose daughter got pregnant at a young age and kept the baby, told The Times’s Ashley Parker.

Even as they push Sarah Barracuda as the glamorous but tough hunting and fishing mom who can juggle it all — she’s the only nominee, as Fred Thompson bragged in his convention speech, “who knows how to properly field dress a moose” — they rant at reporters who wonder how she will juggle it all and question some of her judgments.

At a Washington, Pa., rally on Saturday, as her two other daughters stood with her, Ms. Palin left Bristol baby-sitting Trig, who has Down syndrome. “Then we have our daughter Bristol,” the new conservative Republican star said. “She’s on the bus with the newborn. ... It’s his naptime, so he is with his big sister on the bus. But we thank them for being here.”
And this while Bristol was still absorbing the shocking news that she was about to turn into tabloid roadkill — and oh, yeah, she’s getting married sooner rather than later.

When you make a gimmicky pick of an unknown, without proper vetting, there’s bound to be a sticky press conference sooner or later. I watched it happen with Ferraro and Quayle, and I watched Mondale and Poppy Bush curdle with embarrassment but plow through.

The political unknowns, of course, want that tantalizing brass ring, so they’re not always completely forthcoming about their skeletons, if they’re lucky enough to be ineptly vetted. This is ironic, since the nominee who gets blindsided with these crises — Did McCain really know that this Palin reality show was about to pop and swallow his convention — is presenting them to voters as the most trustworthy people to inherit the nuclear codes.
Because Ferraro grabbed at the chance, without revealing to Mondale’s incompetent vetting team how damaging some of her husband’s financial imbroglios could be, she went from being a female icon to part of the reason it’s taken a quarter-century for another party to take a chance on a woman.

When McCain gets in trouble, he pulls out the P.O.W. card. Now Republicans are pulling out the sexist card.

Hillary cried sexism to cover up her incompetent management of her campaign, and now Republicans have picked up that trick. But when you use sexism as an across-the-board shield for any legitimate question, you only hurt women. And that’s just another splash of reality.

Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Berolzheimer on September 03, 2008, 01:30:43 pm
I don't know what the problem is.  I'd love to vote for Mrs. Palin!


index.php/fa/9837/0/
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 03, 2008, 01:53:50 pm
Berolzheimer wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 10:30

I don't know what the problem is.  I'd love to vote for Mrs. Palin!


That's Mrs. Jones!

But I've been waiting for you photoshop geniuses to give us a proper McCain/Palin image.

I'd vote for that ticket
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Berolzheimer on September 03, 2008, 02:23:39 pm
mgod wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 10:53

Berolzheimer wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 10:30

I don't know what the problem is.  I'd love to vote for Mrs. Palin!


That's Mrs. Jones!

But I've been waiting for you photoshop geniuses to give us a proper McCain/Palin image.

I'd vote for that ticket
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: bjornson on September 03, 2008, 03:51:46 pm
J.J. Blair wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 03:29

bjornson wrote on Tue, 02 September 2008 12:47


Easy cowboy,
Not being judgmental or nosey, not waving fingers.
Just noting that "core conscience" tends to be expressed in thought, word and deed.
Gotta go wash my finger.
Carry on Laughing





Note whatever you want.  But I tell you what, you bring my personal life into this discussion again, it will be more than your finger you'll be pulling out of your ass.

Why is it that the scrawny guys always come with the big attitude? Rolling Eyes How about we start with a push-up contest.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Berolzheimer on September 03, 2008, 05:31:41 pm
A good editorial here by Sam Harris:

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-harris3 -2008sep03,0,3801278.story


"Americans have an unhealthy desire to see average people promoted to positions of great authority. No one wants an average neurosurgeon or even an average carpenter, but when it comes time to vest a man or woman with more power and responsibility than any person has held in human history, Americans say they want a regular guy, someone just like themselves. President Bush kept his edge on the "Who would you like to have a beer with?" poll question in 2004, and won reelection.

This is one of the many points at which narcissism becomes indistinguishable from masochism. Let me put it plainly: If you want someone just like you to be president of the United States, or even vice president, you deserve whatever dysfunctional society you get. You deserve to be poor, to see the environment despoiled, to watch your children receive a fourth-rate education and to suffer as this country wages -- and loses -- both necessary and unnecessary wars. "
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Steve Hudson on September 03, 2008, 06:39:37 pm
The news broke today that Palin's commissioner of boards and commissions (the dude who called the public safety commissioner trying to get Palin's ex-brother-in-law trooper fired) cancelled his deposition scheduled for today, as her new private attorney is challenging the Legislature's jurisdiction to investigate the matter. Anyone who has listened to the phone conversation can tell it was a shakedown. Clearly McCain and his handlers are trying to put this investigation off until after the election.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Berolzheimer on September 03, 2008, 08:19:46 pm
Palin said the Iraq war is a 'a task that is from God'.

Echoes of the Blues Brothers, anyone?


 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080903/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_palin_ir aq_war;_ylt=AqhzkGawc0SWpfkEzt_DNXqs0NUE

And isn't it convenient that that other "task from god", getting that oil pipeline built, also benefits Alaskans financially- every Alaskan resident gets a percentage of oil revenue, I think it's currently around $1200/year.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Dominick on September 03, 2008, 08:20:59 pm
 index.php/fa/9841/0/
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Berolzheimer on September 03, 2008, 08:22:51 pm
Dominick wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 17:20

Berolzheimer wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 13:30

I don't know what the problem is.  I'd love to vote for Mrs. Palin!

index.php/fa/9837/0/


That's Terry Jones (Mrs.)




I know, Dan rubbed my nose in it already.


Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Dominick on September 03, 2008, 08:29:51 pm
 
mgod wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 13:53

Berolzheimer wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 10:30

I don't know what the problem is.  I'd love to vote for Mrs. Palin!


That's Mrs. Jones!

But I've been waiting for you photoshop geniuses to give us a proper McCain/Palin image.

I'd vote for that ticket
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 03, 2008, 08:44:40 pm
Dominick wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 17:29

 
mgod wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 13:53

Berolzheimer wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 10:30

I don't know what the problem is.  I'd love to vote for Mrs. Palin!


That's Mrs. Jones!

But I've been waiting for you photoshop geniuses to give us a proper McCain/Palin image.

I'd vote for that ticket
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 03, 2008, 08:57:04 pm
Rec'd via email:


http://www.americablog.com/2008/09/must-see-tv-gop-consultan ts-on.html

Wednesday, September 03, 2008
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Steve Hudson on September 03, 2008, 10:46:51 pm
It's a great thing that moderate Republicans are openly criticizing the Palin pick. They're the only straight-talking brand of Republicans out there. The base right wing of the party is full of nutcases, all scripted from the same insulting narrative stereotypes McCain's campaign advisors and consultants are feeding the sheeple of America.

I worked in Texas Republican politics for more than ten years as a Capitol Hill staffer and as a lobbyist in Austin, leaving the party and politics behind in 1993. I really respected the people who lead that party in the 1980s. They were honest, had traditional values and strong ethics. Then the right-wing evangelical front overran the state party organization and started recruiting a different brand of Republicans - the same one well-represented by Palin. I couldn't work with those people. Don't get me started. So I ended my affiliation with the Party of Lincoln and to this day have been a pretty steady Democrat. Obama represents the best chance in my lifetime to get the country back on track and let the reasonable middle build some unity in the midst of so much cultural and political polarity.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: J.J. Blair on September 04, 2008, 02:10:23 am
Considering how cynical Mike Murphy was about the Dems during the DNC, it's nice to know that he's not the complete asshole I thought he plays when the commercials aren't running.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: J.J. Blair on September 04, 2008, 02:32:59 am
 
bjornson wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 12:51

Quote:


Note whatever you want.  But I tell you what, you bring my personal life into this discussion again, it will be more than your finger you'll be pulling out of your ass.


Why is it that the scrawny guys always come with the big attitude? Rolling Eyes How about we start with a push-up contest.


Scrawny?  That's a first.  

Seriously, don't ever bring my personal life into the debate.  I won't tolerate that shit.  You were waaaaay out of line.  I make a point of not getting into fights, but there's a line you crossed there, and you should expect such reactions when you say shit like that.

Whether we agree or disagree, we don't use each other's marriages, spouses, kids, dogs, parents, etc. when making a point.  And we sure as shit don't use it to judge people's "core conscience."  Unless you are a complete fucking moron, you should know better.  

Saying shit like that in person can cost you a handful of teeth, even when said to somebody as "scrawny" as me.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 05, 2008, 06:20:45 pm
“So Sambo beat the bitch!”

http://www.laprogressive.com/2008/09/05/alaskans-speak-in-a- frightened-whisper-palin-is-%E2%80%9Cracist-sexist-vindictiv e-and-mean%E2%80%9D/
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Steve Hudson on September 05, 2008, 06:49:21 pm
Yikes! Now if only some well-respected Alaskans will come forward to openly dispute or corroborate these reports.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: cerberus on September 05, 2008, 07:07:21 pm
there is an undercurrent of racism embedded in the g.o.p message.
but it is so politically incorrect. one could ignore it, or go
all malcolm-x. this woman is revolting:

Sarah Palin Slashed Funding For Teen Pregnancy Programs
hypocrisy.  the lunatic she is.

sarah palin was once an unwed
pregnant mother too. she's
a "maverick" alright!

cold blooded hypocrisy.
she's an inveterate
liar. a deceiver.

how could senator mccain insult
america like this? is something
wrong inside his head?
or has he completely
lost control?

jeff dinces
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 05, 2008, 07:30:53 pm
cerberus wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 16:07

how could senator mccain insult
america like this? is something
wrong inside his head?
or has he completely
lost control?

Quoted for emphasis.

DS
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Andy Peters on September 05, 2008, 08:12:25 pm
mgod wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 16:30

cerberus wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 16:07


how could senator mccain insult
america like this? is something
wrong inside his head?
or has he completely
lost control?

Quoted for emphasis.

DS


Occam's Razor, again:

He wants to be President soooo much that he's willing to say or do anything, or let others say or do anything in his name, to get "elected."

-a
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: ssltech on September 05, 2008, 08:23:25 pm
Steve Hudson wrote

if only some well-respected Alaskans...


Ummmmmm....

okay, I'm thinking...

No, -I got nothing.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Jay Kadis on September 06, 2008, 01:06:30 am
ssltech wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 17:23

Steve Hudson wrote

if only some well-respected Alaskans...


Ummmmmm....

okay, I'm thinking...

No, -I got nothing.

Haven't you  been watching Ice Road Truckers?
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Berolzheimer on September 06, 2008, 01:25:54 pm
Rachel Abramowitz nailed it this morning-

Palin is Tracy Flick!!!!!

index.php/fa/9871/0/


http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/business/la-et-bri ef6-2008sep06,0,7446019.story


"Personally, I had my eureka moment watching Palin give her speech on Wednesday night.

Sure, she was poised, and read a teleprompter well, but there was that snarl that would periodically mar the pleasantness of her telegenic features.

Then, suddenly, my husband uttered the magic words.

Tracy Flick.

Yes, Palin reminds me of Tracy Flick. She's the ferocious overachiever Reese Witherspoon plays in the excellent 1999 comedy "Election," who despite her angelic face is vindictive, manipulative and would do anything to become president of her high school class.

Don't agree with me? Here's Tracy's prayer to God that she win the election from the film. I've just updated it to make it work for Election 2008.

"Dear Lord Jesus, I do not often speak with you and ask for things, but now, I really must insist that you help me win the election tomorrow because I deserve it and [Barack Obama] doesn't, as you well know. . . . Now I'm asking that you go that one last mile and make sure to put me in office where I belong so that I may carry out your will on Earth as it is in heaven. Amen."

Yup. Amen.

rachel.abramowitz

@latimes.com"
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 06, 2008, 01:50:45 pm
http://defamer.com/5046123/robin-williams-cracks-sarah-palin -phenomenon-in-2-minutes-flat?autoplay=true
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Berolzheimer on September 06, 2008, 03:01:23 pm
So who's going to step up with a little p-shop action on that Election still?


Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 06, 2008, 03:45:24 pm
Palin's Stall:

http://www.adn.com/opinion/story/516641.html
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: organica on September 06, 2008, 05:28:29 pm
51% Say Reporters And Record Producers Are Trying To Hurt Palin; 39% Say She Has Better Experience Than Obama

http://www.rasmussenreports.com


Over half of U.S. voters (51%) think reporters and record producers are trying to hurt Sarah Palin with their news coverage, and 24% say those stories make them more likely to vote for Republican presidential candidate John McCain in November.
Thirty-nine percent (39%) also believe the GOP vice presidential nominee has better experience to be president of the United States than Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama.
But 49% give Obama the edge on experience, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey – taken before Palin’s historic speech Wednesday night to the Republican National Convention.
While Republicans and Democrats predictably favor their party’s candidate by overwhelming margins, the experience gap among voters unaffiliated with either party is even narrower than the national totals. Forty-two percent (42%) say Obama has better experience to be president, but 37% say Palin does.
The potential problem for Democrats is that Obama, the junior U.S. senator from Illinois and a former state legislator, is the party’s standard-bearer, while Palin, an ex-mayor and now governor of Alaska, is number two on her party’s ticket.
Palin’s highly successful debut on the national stage Wednesday night at the GOP convention is sure to impact these numbers, too. Her speech repeatedly highlighted her experience versus Obama’s, something she is expected to focus on from now until Election Day.
(Want a free daily e-mail update on our latest results? Sign up now. If it's in the news, it's in our polls. Get our daily update and we’ll let you know what voters really think.)
Just a week ago 67% of voters told Rasmussen Reports they didn’t know enough about Palin, only the second woman ever to be on a national political ticket, to comment on her. Heading into last night’s speech, however, 52% had a favorable opinion of Alaska’s Governor.
In the new survey, while 24% are more likely to vote for Palin due to recent news coverage, 19% say the opposite and 54% say the stories have no impact on their votes.
Nationally, the Rasmussen daily Presidential Tracking Poll showed Obama with a modest but expected bounce following the close of his convention last week, but that is already being offset by the bounce McCain is beginning to get from his party’s gathering.
Since McCain announced Palin as his running mate on Friday, she has been subjected to an unprecedented wave of negative media stories, many focused on her personal life and especially the pregnancy of her unmarried 17-year-old daughter. The focus of the coverage, especially in the blogosphere, has even prompted Obama to distance himself from it.
Republicans have responded angrily, and the media was the target of numerous negative comments over the first two nights of the GOP convention. Several aides to Hillary Clinton, who Obama defeated for the Democratic presidential nomination, also have criticized the media coverage for its sexist tone.
In the new survey, although 85% say they are following news stories about Palin at least somewhat closely, just five percent (5%) think reporters are trying to help her with their coverage, while 35% believe reporters are providing unbiased coverage.
Eighty percent (80%) of Republicans say reporters are trying to hurt the GOP vice presidential nominee, and 28% of Democrats agree. Only six percent (6%) of Republicans – and even fewer Democrats (4%)– think the reporting is intended to help her. Most Democrats (57%) think the reporters are being unbiased, but just nine percent (9%) of Republicans concur.
Among unaffiliated voters, 49% say reporters are trying to hurt Palin, while 32% say their coverage is unbiased. Only five percent (5%) say reporters are trying to help her.
Voters are more ambivalent about whether the media coverage of Palin and her family reflects a double standard that treats women worse than men. Forty-six percent (46%) say it does, but 35% disagree. Most Republicans and unaffiliated voters say the stories show the media’s double standard against women, but a majority of Democrats disagree.
The findings, nevertheless, are troublesome for the embattled news industry and parallel what voters said in surveys earlier this summer. Sixty-eight percent (68%) of voters now believe most reporters try to help the candidate they want to win, and 49% believe reporters are trying to help Obama this year. Only 14% think they are trying to help McCain. In another survey, 55% said media bias is a bigger problem for the electoral process than large campaign donations.
Although women voters by a 48% to 35% margin believe the coverage of Palin reveals a double standard in the media, they continue to support Obama more than men. Palin in her comments already has made clear that one of her key missions is to lure women voters disaffected by Clinton’s defeat in the Democratic primaries to the McCain column.
Please sign up for the Rasmussen Reports daily e-mail update (it’s free)… let us keep you up to date with the latest public opinion news.
See survey questions and toplines. Crosstabs available for Premium Members only.
Rasmussen Reports is an electronic publishing firm specializing in the collection, publication, and distribution of public opinion polling information.
The Rasmussen Reports ElectionEdge™ Premium Service for Election 2008 offers the most comprehensive public opinion coverage ever provided for a Presidential election.
Scott Rasmussen, president of Rasmussen Reports, has been an independent pollster for more than a decade.
This national survey of 1,000 Likely Voters was conducted by Rasmussen Reports on September 3, 2008. The margin of sampling error for each survey is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: malice on September 08, 2008, 03:07:01 am
“So Sambo beat the bitch!”

That's the spirit ...

http://www.laprogressive.com/2008/09/05/alaskans-speak-in-a- frightened-whisper-palin-is-%E2%80%9Cracist-sexist-vindictiv e-and-mean%E2%80%9D/

that and this video :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H-btXPfhGs

I cannot see how to be moderate with this pick, Brad.

peace

malice
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: cerberus on September 08, 2008, 03:44:19 am
groundhog wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 17:28

Record Producers

yo, g-hog.  the article says nothing about record producers.
are you having a sort of wardrobe malfunction?

jeff dinces
Title: Sarah Palin's book ban listk
Post by: Berolzheimer on September 08, 2008, 12:55:36 pm
Sarah Palin's book ban list and Chris Hedges on 'American Fascists'

When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross.
Sinclair Lewis, 1935

Below is a list of the books Sarah Palin tried to have banned from the Wasilla, Alaska Library.  When I was in Anchorage two years ago, residents of Wasilla I met described the place as a growing, more-and-more suburban community north of Anchorage.  In her speech, Palin called the area 'the valley.'  Mayor Palin would seem to be a strong force in the suburbanization of the village of Wasilla.  When the Wasilla librarian refused to trash these books, Mayor Palin tried to have her fired.  This caused a stir in Wasilla which then turned into a drive to protect the librarian.  Some of my favorite examples of American literature are on this list.  This is the act of a patriotic American?  No, this is the act of a religious fundamentalist trying to squeeze herself into the role of a mythic frontier American.  The attempt to ban American literary masterpieces like Catcher In The Rye, Grapes Of Wrath, To Kill A Mockingbird, Death Of A Salesman, Leaves Of Grass, As I Lay Dying, Huckleberry Finn, Catch 22 and Tarzan indicates, flags and Bible citations aside, her ascendance to national power would be downright un-American.  In the realm of Rovian political marketing and the unfolding effort to win the Presidency not with ideas but with a cult of personality, McCain is the humiliated warrior ready to 'go to the gates of hell' to preserve American exceptionalism and Sarah Palin is his fascist 'bride,' a mythic frontier mom able to shoot, gut and cook a moose while  nurturing her family who has said publicly our war in Iraq is supported by God and people should pray to God to get the Alaska gas pipeline approved.      

This is a pivotal moment in American history, and we all need to expose this cult of personality for what it is, a cynical sham.  Please pass this on far and wide.

John Grant

This list is taken from the official minutes of the Wasilla Library Board.

A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess
A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'Engle
Annie on My Mind by Nancy Garden
As I Lay Dying by William Faulkner
Blubber by Judy Blume
Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson
Canterbury Tales by Geoffrey Chaucer
Carrie by Stephen King
Catch-22 by Joseph Heller
Christine by Stephen King
Confessions by Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Cujo by Stephen King
Curses, Hexes, and Spells by Daniel Cohen
Daddy's Roommate by Michael Willhoite
Day No Pigs Would Die by Robert Peck
Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller
Decameron by Boccaccio
East of Eden by John Steinbeck
Fallen Angels by Walter Myers
Fanny Hill (Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure) by John Cleland
Flowers For Algernon by Daniel Keyes
Forever by Judy Blume
Grendel by John Champlin Gardner
Halloween ABC by Eve Merriam
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Prizoner of Azkaban by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire by J.K. Rowling
Have to Go by Robert Munsch
Heather Has Two Mommies by Leslea Newman
How to Eat Fried Worms by Thomas Rockwell
Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou
Impressions edited by Jack Booth
In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak
It's Okay if You Don't Love Me by Norma Klein
James and the Giant Peach by Roald Dahl
Lady Chatterley's Lover by D.H. Lawrence
Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman
Little Red Riding Hood by Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm
Lord of the Flies by William Golding
Love is One of the Choices by Norma Klein
Lysistrata by Aristophanes
More Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz
My Brother Sam Is Dead by James Lincoln Collier and Christopher Collier
My House by Nikki Giovanni
My Friend Flicka by Mary O'Hara
Night Chills by Dean Koontz
Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck
On My Honor by Marion Dane Bauer
One Day in The Life of Ivan Denisovich by Alexander Solzhenitsyn
One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest by Ken Kesey
One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez
Ordinary People by Judith Guest
Our Bodies, Ourselves by Boston Women's Health Collective
Prince of Tides by Pat Conroy
Revolting Rhymes by Roald Dahl
Scary Stories 3: More Tales to Chill Your Bones by Alvin Schwartz
Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz
Separate Peace by John Knowles
Silas Marner by George Eliot
Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
Tarzan of the Apes by Edgar Rice Burroughs
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
The Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain
The Bastard by John Jakes
The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger
The Chocolate War by Robert Cormier
The Color Purple by Alice Walker
The Devil's Alternative by Frederick Forsyth
The Figure in the Shadows by John Bellairs
The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck
The Great Gilly Hopkins by Katherine Paterson
The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood
The Headless Cupid by Zilpha Snyder
The Learning Tree by Gordon Parks
The Living Bible by William C. Bower
The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare
The New Teenage Body Book by Kathy McCoy and Charles Wibbelsman
The Pigman by Paul Zindel
The Seduction of Peter S. by Lawrence Sanders
The Shining by Stephen King
The Witches by Roald Dahl
The Witches of Worm by Zilpha Snyder
Then Again, Maybe I Won't by Judy Blume
To Kill A Mockingbird by Harper Lee
Twelfth Night by William Shakespeare
Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary by the Merriam-Webster Editorial Staff
Witches, Pumpkins, and Grinning Ghosts: The Story of the Halloween
Symbols by Edna Barth

VFP31 Annual Banquet Speaker Chris Hedges wrote the book on people like Sarah Palin.  
It's called American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War On America





Title: Re: Sarah Palin's book ban listk
Post by: rollmottle on September 08, 2008, 01:36:29 pm
Berolzheimer wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 09:55

Sarah Palin's book ban list and Chris Hedges on 'American Fascists'

When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross.
Sinclair Lewis, 1935

Below is a list of the books Sarah Palin tried to have banned from the Wasilla, Alaska Library.  When I was in Anchorage two years ago, residents of Wasilla I met described the place as a growing, more-and-more suburban community north of Anchorage.  In her speech, Palin called the area 'the valley.'  Mayor Palin would seem to be a strong force in the suburbanization of the village of Wasilla.  When the Wasilla librarian refused to trash these books, Mayor Palin tried to have her fired.  This caused a stir in Wasilla which then turned into a drive to protect the librarian.  Some of my favorite examples of American literature are on this list.  This is the act of a patriotic American?  No, this is the act of a religious fundamentalist trying to squeeze herself into the role of a mythic frontier American.  The attempt to ban American literary masterpieces like Catcher In The Rye, Grapes Of Wrath, To Kill A Mockingbird, Death Of A Salesman, Leaves Of Grass, As I Lay Dying, Huckleberry Finn, Catch 22 and Tarzan indicates, flags and Bible citations aside, her ascendance to national power would be downright un-American.  In the realm of Rovian political marketing and the unfolding effort to win the Presidency not with ideas but with a cult of personality, McCain is the humiliated warrior ready to 'go to the gates of hell' to preserve American exceptionalism and Sarah Palin is his fascist 'bride,' a mythic frontier mom able to shoot, gut and cook a moose while  nurturing her family who has said publicly our war in Iraq is supported by God and people should pray to God to get the Alaska gas pipeline approved.      

This is a pivotal moment in American history, and we all need to expose this cult of personality for what it is, a cynical sham.  Please pass this on far and wide.

John Grant

This list is taken from the official minutes of the Wasilla Library Board.

A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess
A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'Engle
Annie on My Mind by Nancy Garden
As I Lay Dying by William Faulkner
Blubber by Judy Blume
Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson
Canterbury Tales by Geoffrey Chaucer
Carrie by Stephen King
Catch-22 by Joseph Heller
Christine by Stephen King
Confessions by Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Cujo by Stephen King
Curses, Hexes, and Spells by Daniel Cohen
Daddy's Roommate by Michael Willhoite
Day No Pigs Would Die by Robert Peck
Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller
Decameron by Boccaccio
East of Eden by John Steinbeck
Fallen Angels by Walter Myers
Fanny Hill (Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure) by John Cleland
Flowers For Algernon by Daniel Keyes
Forever by Judy Blume
Grendel by John Champlin Gardner
Halloween ABC by Eve Merriam
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Prizoner of Azkaban by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire by J.K. Rowling
Have to Go by Robert Munsch
Heather Has Two Mommies by Leslea Newman
How to Eat Fried Worms by Thomas Rockwell
Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou
Impressions edited by Jack Booth
In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak
It's Okay if You Don't Love Me by Norma Klein
James and the Giant Peach by Roald Dahl
Lady Chatterley's Lover by D.H. Lawrence
Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman
Little Red Riding Hood by Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm
Lord of the Flies by William Golding
Love is One of the Choices by Norma Klein
Lysistrata by Aristophanes
More Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz
My Brother Sam Is Dead by James Lincoln Collier and Christopher Collier
My House by Nikki Giovanni
My Friend Flicka by Mary O'Hara
Night Chills by Dean Koontz
Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck
On My Honor by Marion Dane Bauer
One Day in The Life of Ivan Denisovich by Alexander Solzhenitsyn
One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest by Ken Kesey
One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez
Ordinary People by Judith Guest
Our Bodies, Ourselves by Boston Women's Health Collective
Prince of Tides by Pat Conroy
Revolting Rhymes by Roald Dahl
Scary Stories 3: More Tales to Chill Your Bones by Alvin Schwartz
Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz
Separate Peace by John Knowles
Silas Marner by George Eliot
Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
Tarzan of the Apes by Edgar Rice Burroughs
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
The Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain
The Bastard by John Jakes
The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger
The Chocolate War by Robert Cormier
The Color Purple by Alice Walker
The Devil's Alternative by Frederick Forsyth
The Figure in the Shadows by John Bellairs
The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck
The Great Gilly Hopkins by Katherine Paterson
The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood
The Headless Cupid by Zilpha Snyder
The Learning Tree by Gordon Parks
The Living Bible by William C. Bower
The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare
The New Teenage Body Book by Kathy McCoy and Charles Wibbelsman
The Pigman by Paul Zindel
The Seduction of Peter S. by Lawrence Sanders
The Shining by Stephen King
The Witches by Roald Dahl
The Witches of Worm by Zilpha Snyder
Then Again, Maybe I Won't by Judy Blume
To Kill A Mockingbird by Harper Lee
Twelfth Night by William Shakespeare
Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary by the Merriam-Webster Editorial Staff
Witches, Pumpkins, and Grinning Ghosts: The Story of the Halloween
Symbols by Edna Barth

VFP31 Annual Banquet Speaker Chris Hedges wrote the book on people like Sarah Palin.  
It's called American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War On America








Simply stunning. You have a link for this?

I mean, "Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary by the Merriam-Webster Editorial Staff"...seriously?

The Bible could be construed as offensive as ANY of these what with the wrath and killing and revelation etc. If this loon gets into the Oval Office we're finished.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin's book ban listk
Post by: Steve Hudson on September 08, 2008, 02:21:38 pm
Palin Switched Colleges Six Times in Six Years

 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09 /04/AR2008090402467.html

[edited to reflect retraction about banned books]
Title: Re: Sarah Palin's book ban listk
Post by: Devin Knutson on September 08, 2008, 02:25:27 pm
rollmottle wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 10:36

If this loon gets into the Oval Office we're finished.



Way back in 2000, Lewis Black ended a bit with:

"In my lifetime, we've gone from an Eisenhower to a George W. Bush.  From Jack Kennedy to Al Gore.  If this is progress, then I believe that in about 12 years, we'll be voting for plants.  I have one I'm gonna run...  President Phil O' Dendron.  He doesn't need much light...  he doesn't need much water.  And that's a platform I can believe in."

We're right on schedule.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin's book ban listk
Post by: Berolzheimer on September 08, 2008, 02:32:03 pm
Oops, mea culpa, that list is false.  It came in an email from a usually very reliable source of political info, (my brother, a PHD &  Smithsonian Fellow in American history) & now he's sent a retraction:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/bannedbooks.asp


Title: Re: Sarah Palin's book ban listk
Post by: PRobb on September 08, 2008, 04:17:02 pm
Berolzheimer wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 14:32

Oops, mea culpa, that list is false.  It came in an email from a usually very reliable source of political info, (my brother, a PHD &  Smithsonian Fellow in American history) & now he's sent a retraction:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/bannedbooks.asp




The list is false.

The part about her wanting to ban books is true.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin's book ban listk
Post by: jimlongo on September 08, 2008, 06:26:37 pm
PRobb wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 16:17

Berolzheimer wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 14:32

Oops, mea culpa, that list is false.  It came in an email from a usually very reliable source of political info, (my brother, a PHD &  Smithsonian Fellow in American history) & now he's sent a retraction:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/bannedbooks.asp




The list is false.

The part about her wanting to ban books is true.


There's so much rumor and anti-rumor here that it's hard to know whether she really tried to ban them or just asked the librarian if she was open to banning books.
Either way her extreme religious views make it easy to believe that she really would like to ban some books.
The sad thing is this impulsive cynical pick of a VP candidate, the reactionary outraged internet, and the defend-everything-no-matter-what right wing has caused a tidal wave of horror and sympathy beyond anything I can remember in a long time.  
It would be amazing if this election ever gets back to issues of any importance.

Title: Re: Sarah Palin's book ban listk
Post by: John Ivan on September 08, 2008, 07:07:48 pm
I'm hopeful that the Obama campaign will be VERY forward about making it all about the issues. The Clinton's need to be used here as well.

There are many republicans who did not like McCains guy coming right out and saying this campaign is about personality. What a slap in the face of the American people..

The polls, such as they are, are closer than I would like. Barack needs to get out and make news here. He can do this using legit, serious points. On with it!!

Ivan..................
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: garret on September 08, 2008, 08:22:40 pm
Anyone catch the CNN report today.. Rick Sanchez was the anchor... talking about the Pentacostal church in Alaska where Palin was a member for many years?

I don't know much about Pentacostalism..... Pretty much, just the stereotypes.   Speaking in tongues, believing the world will end soon, etc.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9433254 0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K_1Eit0pxM

Your thoughts?  Personally, I find it terrifying to put someone who believes in doomsday prophecies into a position where they have the power to begin a nuclear war.

Hmm.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin's book ban listk
Post by: Andy Peters on September 09, 2008, 01:32:52 am
Steve Hudson wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 11:21

Palin Switched Colleges Six Times in Six Years

  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09 /04/AR2008090402467.html


When she learned that little factoid about Palin, Diane Rehm's response was a simple, but astonished, "WHY?"

-a
Title: Re: Sarah Palin's book ban listk
Post by: Andy Peters on September 09, 2008, 01:36:43 am
Berolzheimer wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 11:32

Oops, mea culpa, that list is false.  It came in an email from a usually very reliable source of political info, (my brother, a PHD &  Smithsonian Fellow in American history) & now he's sent a retraction:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/bannedbooks.asp


Indeed it's false, and it should be obvious from the list of books that it's false.

What librarian (or someone with even a passing knowledge of English) would alphabetize a list and sort titles that start with the article "the" under "T"?

Idiots.

-a
Title: Re: Sarah Palin's book ban listk
Post by: Steve Hudson on September 09, 2008, 06:30:42 am
Andy Peters wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 00:32

Steve Hudson wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 11:21

Palin Switched Colleges Six Times in Six Years

   http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09 /04/AR2008090402467.html


When she learned that little factoid about Palin, Diane Rehm's response was a simple, but astonished, "WHY?"

-a


Maybe Dave Letterman will help us out with a Top Ten list on this question.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin's book ban listk
Post by: Rader Ranch on September 09, 2008, 08:55:37 am
John Ivan wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 19:07

I'm hopeful that the Obama campaign will be VERY forward about making it all about the issues.


um, this is exactly why the Dem's have been such anemic wussies and lost so many winnable races. They will be Rove'd in this campaign, and they need to show some fucking fight for a change. Obama needs to call McCain on every flip flop, poor decision, and lame track record, and has to clearly define Palin as the obviously cynical choice she is, chastising him DURING the debates for picking a running mate based not on how they can do the job, but solely on their ability to get him elected.

Biden needs to NOT take it easy on her during the debate, but embarrass her on almost every issue, and call bullshit on her every attempt to turn any criticism into 'sexism' or 'anti-small town americanism'. If he can't look straight into the camera and make clear to everyone that this person next to him is running for VP, the proverbial hearbeat away from Pres, and the suggestion that he should be anything less than his full force campaigning self and take it easy on her is not only insulting to women but to the office of president of the united states blahblah etecetc.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin's book ban listk
Post by: John Ivan on September 09, 2008, 11:57:42 am
Yeah,, um,, this was exactly my point... You have described how and why democrats lost both of the last two elections..

I've been paying attention..

Ivan..................
Title: Re: Sarah Palin's book ban listk
Post by: Steve Hudson on September 09, 2008, 01:12:36 pm
Palin Took Per Diem When Staying At Home; State Paid Travel for Family Members

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09 /08/AR2008090803088.html?hpid=topnews

So much for the reformer pose.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Rader Ranch on September 09, 2008, 01:44:37 pm
I don't see how anyone who works for the Daily Show is going to get more than a catnap until November. Too much material. They should really go to an hour format though election day, get more guests on, etc.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: John Ivan on September 09, 2008, 01:59:35 pm
Rader Ranch wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 13:44

I don't see how anyone who works for the Daily Show is going to get more than a catnap until November. Too much material. They should really go to an hour format though election day, get more guests on, etc.



Indeed! I agree completely! That would be wonderful!

Ivan................
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: amorris on September 09, 2008, 02:24:58 pm
the book banning thing is not true. I actually have looked up several things all of which come from blogs and none of which have been true.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: John Ivan on September 09, 2008, 02:44:57 pm
amorris wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 14:24

the book banning thing is not true. I actually have looked up several things all of which come from blogs and none of which have been true.



What IS true though, is that she asked whether the librarian would be willing to remove "questionable" books from the library.

I find this, all by it's self to be bad news.

EDIT TO AD: I wish people would not feel the need to exaggerate these things. The truth about Palin is bad enough IMHO.

Ivan................
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: ssltech on September 09, 2008, 02:47:58 pm
amorris wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 14:24

the book banning thing is not true.

Too vague.

The book banning thing most assuredly IS true, insofar as her being is ON RECORD as asking the librarian in question whether or not she would have any objections to certain books being banned. The librarian replied immediately that she would strenuously OPPOSE any efforts at censorship, and that EVERY book in the library at that time was on an approved list as being appropriate for a library of that size.

Mary Ellen Emmons, the librarian in question was subesquently FIRED by Sarah Palin, eleven days after she took office. It took an organized effort to have her reinstated, though she left a couple of years later. (I'm sure I would have, also.)

Those are the FACTS.

Keith
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: C.O. Jones on September 09, 2008, 02:56:51 pm
ssltech wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 13:47

amorris wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 14:24

the book banning thing is not true.

Too vague.

The book banning thing most assuredly IS true, insofar as her being is ON RECORD as asking the librarian in question whether or not she would have any objections to certain books being banned. The librarian replied immediately that she would strenuously OPPOSE any efforts at censorship, and that EVERY book in the library at that time was on an approved list as being appropriate for a library of that size.

Mary Ellen Emmons, the librarian in question was subesquently FIRED by Sarah Palin, eleven days after she took office. It took an organized effort to have her reinstated, though she left a couple of years later. (I'm sure I would have, also.)

Those are the FACTS.

Keith


I don't really care one way or another what people want to believe, but some of the slightly-less-hysterical media is staring to compile details, case by case, on the allegations.

Here's one of them:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/157986/page/2


Jones
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: cerberus on September 09, 2008, 03:08:22 pm
"Speaking of Sarah Palin, she said she's a life-long member of the National Rifle Association. Which may explain why she's in favor of shotgun weddings." --Conan O'Brien

"She's old enough. She's a U.S. citizen." --John Harris, Alaska's Republican speaker of the house, when asked about Palin's qualifications for vice president.

"She does know about international relations because she is right up there in Alaska, right next door to Russia." –FOX News

"When you think about it, Alaska is also near the North Pole, so she must also be friends with Santa." —Jon Stewart

q: what is the difference between sarah palin and dick cheney? a: lipstick (we think).

"I'm not sure what she brings to the ticket other than she's a woman and a conservative."
–Sarah Palin's mother-in-law, Faye Palin, who said she may vote for Obama

"And how are you going to be the vice president of the United States with five kids
to take care of? She's got a four-month-old of her own, she's about to become
a grandmother, and she's partnered with John McCain. How many diapers
can one woman possibly change?" --Jimmy Kimmel

"Actually, it was kind of a smart choice. McCain went with a woman because
e didn't want to have to be in a position to have to get CPR
from Mitt Romney." —Jay Leno

index.php/fa/9895/0/
  http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1185304443/bct id1782584531

jeff dinces
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: John Ivan on September 09, 2008, 03:43:29 pm
This is troubling to me. Not a good thing at all.
 ------------------------------------------------------------ ---
Fair use, from Newsweek article:
Contributors:
By Brooks Jackson, Jess Henig, Emi Kolawole, Joe Miller and Lori Robertson | factcheck.org
Sep 8, 2008 | Updated: 6:55  p.m. ET Sep 8, 2008
 ------------------------------------------------------------ ---


"It's true that Palin did raise the issue with Mary Ellen Emmons, Wasilla's librarian, on at least two occasions, three in some versions. Emmons flatly stated her opposition each time. But, as the /Mat-Su Valley Frontiersman/ (Wasilla's local paper) reported at the time, Palin
asked general questions  about what Emmons would say if Palin requested that a book be banned. According to Emmons, Palin "was asking me how I would deal with her saying a book can't be in the library." Emmons reported that Palin pressed the issue, asking whether Emmons' position would change if residents were picketing the library. Wasilla resident Anne Kilkenny,
who was at the meeting, corroborates Emmons' story, telling the Chicago Tribune that "Sarah said to Mary Ellen, 'What would your response be if I asked you to remove some books from the collection?' "

Palin characterized the exchange differently, initially volunteering the episode as an example of discussions with city employees about following her administration's agenda. Palin described her questions to Emmons as "rhetorical," noting that her questions "were asked in the context of
professionalism regarding the library policy that is in place in our city." Actually, true rhetorical questions have implied answers (e.g., "Who do you think you are?"), so Palin probably meant to describe her questions as hypothetical or theoretical. We can't read minds, so it is impossible for us to know whether or not Palin may actually have wanted to ban books from the library or whether she simply wanted to know how her new employees would respond to an instruction from their boss. It is worth noting that, in an update, the Frontiersman points out that no
book was ever banned from the library's shelves.
"

The idea that she would ask this question sets off loud alarm bells for me..

Ivan...................
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: ssltech on September 09, 2008, 04:02:48 pm
The idea that she doesn't distinguish between rhetoric and hypothesis (Using the word "rhetorical" when she means "hypothetical") is pretty Bush-y, -don'tcha think?
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: John Ivan on September 09, 2008, 05:00:21 pm
ssltech wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 16:02

The idea that she doesn't distinguish between rhetoric and hypothesis (Using the word "rhetorical" when she means "hypothetical") is pretty Bush-y, -don'tcha think?



Yeah, it may seem like a small thing to some. But I'm with ya. I don't like it one bit.. Oh well.

Ivan...................
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Steve Hudson on September 09, 2008, 05:34:21 pm
ssltech wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 15:02

The idea that she doesn't distinguish between rhetoric and hypothesis (Using the word "rhetorical" when she means "hypothetical") is pretty Bush-y, -don'tcha think?


It's a common Republican strategery intended to confuserate the illiterati.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: John Ivan on September 09, 2008, 05:53:59 pm
[/quote]

I don't really care one way or another what people want to believe,

Jones
[/quote]


Right. This seems to run deep in your party, and your candidates.

Ivan.................
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: C.O. Jones on September 09, 2008, 06:44:05 pm
John Ivan wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 16:53




I don't really care one way or another what people want to believe,

Jones
[/quote]


Right. This seems to run deep in your party, and your candidates.

Ivan.................[/quote]



I'm a Libertarian.


I also believe the hysterical fabrications and exaggerations being posted are in the same category as Mark Fuhrman's ill-motivated "bloody glove" concoction.

Contrived or manipulated evidence is ultimately seldom useful.

Jones
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: neilio on September 09, 2008, 07:00:27 pm
C.O. Jones wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 17:44

John Ivan wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 16:53




I don't really care one way or another what people want to believe,

Jones




Right. This seems to run deep in your party, and your candidates.

Ivan.................[/quote]



I'm a Libertarian.


I also believe the hysterical fabrications and exaggerations being posted are in the same category as Mark Fuhrman's ill-motivated "bloody glove" concoction.

Contrived or manipulated evidence is ultimately seldom useful.

Jones
[/quote]

but a libertarian is what all conservatives "become" when they are pissed at the the g.o.p....

its soooooo true.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Berolzheimer on September 09, 2008, 07:05:05 pm
neilio wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 16:00

C.O. Jones wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 17:44

John Ivan wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 16:53




I don't really care one way or another what people want to believe,

Jones




Right. This seems to run deep in your party, and your candidates.

Ivan.................




I'm a Libertarian.


I also believe the hysterical fabrications and exaggerations being posted are in the same category as Mark Fuhrman's ill-motivated "bloody glove" concoction.

Contrived or manipulated evidence is ultimately seldom useful.

Jones
[/quote]

but a libertarian is what all conservatives "become" when they are pissed at the the g.o.p....

its soooooo true.[/quote]

Or as Thom Hartmann likes to say, Libertarians are republicans who want to smoke dope & get laid.


Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: C.O. Jones on September 09, 2008, 07:09:11 pm
neilio wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 18:00


but a libertarian is what all conservatives "become" when they are pissed at the the g.o.p....

its soooooo true.


I've been registered Libertarian for 20 years.


I'm interested though.  Please help me understand this undeniable truism you're applying to me.

Jones
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: C.O. Jones on September 09, 2008, 07:19:19 pm
Berolzheimer wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 18:05

neilio wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 16:00

C.O. Jones wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 17:44

John Ivan wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 16:53




I don't really care one way or another what people want to believe,

Jones




Right. This seems to run deep in your party, and your candidates.

Ivan.................




I'm a Libertarian.


I also believe the hysterical fabrications and exaggerations being posted are in the same category as Mark Fuhrman's ill-motivated "bloody glove" concoction.

Contrived or manipulated evidence is ultimately seldom useful.

Jones



but a libertarian is what all conservatives "become" when they are pissed at the the g.o.p....

its soooooo true.[/quote]

Or as Thom Hartmann likes to say, Libertarians are republicans who want to smoke dope & get laid.


[/quote]




I quit smoking dope a while back.

Very Happy


Is the quote-box feature malfunctioning?

That's three in a row.

Jones
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: organica on September 09, 2008, 07:51:58 pm
C.O. Jones wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 19:19


Is the quote-box feature malfunctioning?




The quote-box may be out of order , but the soap-box on this thread is  holding up quite nicely !
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: cerberus on September 09, 2008, 07:53:04 pm
oh i'm a libertarian too.

no harm in distributing a list of books that extremist christians have asked their
american followers not to read. s.p. may not have written this list. but i think
it sure is interesting to see an example list.  afaik, it is a typical ban
list for any religious extremist such as sarah palin.
———
A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess
A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'Engle
Annie on My Mind by Nancy Garden
As I Lay Dying by William Faulkner
Blubber by Judy Blume
Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson
Canterbury Tales by Geoffrey Chaucer
Carrie by Stephen King
Catch-22 by Joseph Heller
Christine by Stephen King
Confessions by Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Cujo by Stephen King
Curses, Hexes, and Spells by Daniel Cohen
Daddy's Roommate by Michael Willhoite
Day No Pigs Would Die by Robert Peck
Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller
Decameron by Boccaccio
East of Eden by John Steinbeck
Fallen Angels by Walter Myers
Fanny Hill (Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure) by John Cleland
Flowers For Algernon by Daniel Keyes
Forever by Judy Blume
Grendel by John Champlin Gardner
Halloween ABC by Eve Merriam
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Prizoner of Azkaban by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire by J.K. Rowling
Have to Go by Robert Munsch
Heather Has Two Mommies by Leslea Newman
How to Eat Fried Worms by Thomas Rockwell
Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou
Impressions edited by Jack Booth
In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak
It's Okay if You Don't Love Me by Norma Klein
James and the Giant Peach by Roald Dahl
Lady Chatterley's Lover by D.H. Lawrence
Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman
Little Red Riding Hood by Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm
Lord of the Flies by William Golding
Love is One of the Choices by Norma Klein
Lysistrata by Aristophanes
More Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz
My Brother Sam Is Dead by James Lincoln Collier and Christopher Collier
My House by Nikki Giovanni
My Friend Flicka by Mary O'Hara
Night Chills by Dean Koontz
Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck
On My Honor by Marion Dane Bauer
One Day in The Life of Ivan Denisovich by Alexander Solzhenitsyn
One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest by Ken Kesey
One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez
Ordinary People by Judith Guest
Our Bodies, Ourselves by Boston Women's Health Collective
Prince of Tides by Pat Conroy
Revolting Rhymes by Roald Dahl
Scary Stories 3: More Tales to Chill Your Bones by Alvin Schwartz
Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz
Separate Peace by John Knowles
Silas Marner by George Eliot
Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
Tarzan of the Apes by Edgar Rice Burroughs
Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, The by Mark Twain,
Adventures of Tom Sawyer, The by Mark Twain
Bastard, The by John Jakes
Catcher in the Rye, The by J.D. Salinger
Chocolate War, The by Robert Cormier
Color Purple, The by Alice Walker
Devil's Alternative, The by Frederick Forsyth
Figure in the Shadows, The by John Bellairs
Grapes of Wrath, The by John Steinbeck
Great Gilly Hopkins, The by Katherine Paterson
Handmaid's Tale, The by Margaret Atwood
Headless Cupid, The by Zilpha Snyder
Learning Tree, The by Gordon Parks
Living Bible, The by William C. Bower
Merchant of Venice, The by William Shakespeare
New Teenage Body Book, The by Kathy McCoy and Charles Wibbelsman
Pigma, Then by Paul Zindel
Seduction of Peter S., The by Lawrence Sanders
Shining, The by Stephen King
Witches, The by Roald Dahl
Witches of Worm by Zilpha Snyder
Then Again, Maybe I Won't by Judy Blume
To Kill A Mockingbird by Harper Lee
Twelfth Night by William Shakespeare
Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary by the Merriam-Webster Editorial Staff
Witches, Pumpkins, and Grinning Ghosts: The Story of the Halloween
Symbols by Edna Barth

———
some great books are on that list;
not to be missed, imo! others i
have not even heard of, but
probably should read...

jeff dinces
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: C.O. Jones on September 09, 2008, 08:06:37 pm
cerberus wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 18:53

i don't see any harm in distributing a list of books that
extremist christians have asked americans not to read.  




Absolutely.  Fair game, I won't argue with that.


This is the "bloody glove" style fabrication I'm talking about.

Dumb strategy.


Tell me where I'm being unreasonable.

Jones
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: cerberus on September 09, 2008, 08:19:28 pm
jones, you refer to yellow journalism. but who is to blame for it?

yes, a news story that breaks, but the major parties involved remain silent...
sometimes causes some bad information to be passed. the information
vacuum is not filled by the newsmaker themselves. rather it gets
filled by those whose role it is in our society to fill such
vacuums, such as "us magazine", or murdoch's rags.
all the mccain campaign needs to do to set the
record straight is to publish her real list.
Rolling Eyes

jeff dinces
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: C.O. Jones on September 09, 2008, 09:07:21 pm
cerberus wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 19:19

yes, a news story that breaks, but the major parties involved remain silent...
sometimes causes some bad information to be passed. the information
vacuum is not filled by the newsmaker themselves. rather it gets
filled by those whose role it is in our society to fill such
vacuums, such as "us magazine", or murdoch's rags.
all the mccain campaign needs to do to set the
record straight is to publish her real list.
Rolling Eyes

jeff dinces




You're seriously contending  that bullshit creates a "vacuum" that should be the basis for assuming guilt?  My understanding is this woman had no "list" to publish.  If you have evidence to the contrary, please give it now.

All indications are, and you seem to be agreeing, that  it's fabricated: i.e. a "bloody glove"..., but justified by your "personal certainty" of her guilt, whether manifest in the individually alleged infraction or not. You're really OK with that?

You seem to be defending the notion that your imagination of her "evil" propensities remains justification for this fabricated charge.  Granted, she probably is mindfully engaged in  an agenda that you disagree with.  Does that justify concocked evidence?


...well we  did do the nose...



You, cerberus, are the personification of why I quit smoking pot.

...and will continue to make sure I don't do anything that leads to a jury-trial in your district.

Jones
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 09, 2008, 09:44:43 pm
From the New Republic. This calls it right where it is:


It took only a few days for the saga of Sarah Palin to go from Frank Capra to Preston Sturges to Judd Apatow, and then for the farce to stop being funny at all. These are not the times for right-wing screwball. The world is aflame and we have been pondering the knocked-up daughter of a pert and uncannily confident Alaskan mediocrity who was elevated to a national ticket for the purpose of changing the conversation. The Republicans wanted a new conversation, and they got one.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 09, 2008, 09:46:51 pm
Libertarians don't have much available to them these days:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/usprimaries2008

As it turns out, I'm as left as Ghandi and as libertarian as ol' Dalai Lama.

DS
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: C.O. Jones on September 09, 2008, 09:59:34 pm
mgod wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 20:44

From the New Republic. This calls it right where it is:


It took only a few days for the saga of Sarah Palin to go from Frank Capra to Preston Sturges to Judd Apatow, and then for the farce to stop being funny at all. These are not the times for right-wing screwball. The world is aflame and we have been pondering the knocked-up daughter of a pert and uncannily confident Alaskan mediocrity who was elevated to a national ticket for the purpose of changing the conversation. The Republicans wanted a new conversation, and they got one.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: C.O. Jones on September 09, 2008, 10:08:58 pm
mgod wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 20:46

Libertarians don't have much available to them these days:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/usprimaries2008

As it turns out, I'm as left as Ghandi and as libertarian as ol' Dalai Lama.

DS


Yes, the Libertarian party is disappointing today too.  At least locally, they keep putting up folks that seem to think that legal-weed is the most important challenge facing mankind.

Single-issue kookiness is a path to oblivion that everyone can learn from.

Jones


Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: cerberus on September 09, 2008, 11:07:26 pm
C.O. Jones wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 21:07

cerberus wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 19:19

yes, a news story that breaks, but the major parties involved remain silent...
sometimes causes some bad information to be passed. the information
vacuum is not filled by the newsmaker themselves. rather it gets
filled by those whose role it is in our society to fill such
vacuums, such as "us magazine", or murdoch's rags.
all the mccain campaign needs to do to set the
record straight is to publish her real list.
Rolling Eyes

jeff dinces




You're seriously contending  that bullshit creates a "vacuum" that should be the basis for assuming guilt?  My understanding is this woman had no "list" to publish.  If you have evidence to the contrary, please give it now.

All indications are, and you seem to be agreeing, that  it's fabricated: i.e. a "bloody glove"..., but justified by your "personal certainty" of her guilt, whether manifest in the individually alleged infraction or not. You're really OK with that?

You seem to be defending the notion that your imagination of her "evil" propensities remains justification for this fabricated charge.  Granted, she probably is mindfully engaged in  an agenda that you disagree with.  Does that justify concocked evidence?


...well we  did do the nose...



You, cerberus, are the personification of why I quit smoking pot.

...and will continue to make sure I don't do anything that leads to a jury-trial in your district.

Jones


wtf kind of analogy is that?  now two posts on o.j?
now please stick your racism in your crack pipe.

jeff dinces
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: C.O. Jones on September 09, 2008, 11:34:42 pm
cerberus wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 22:07

C.O. Jones wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 21:07

cerberus wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 19:19

yes, a news story that breaks, but the major parties involved remain silent...
sometimes causes some bad information to be passed. the information
vacuum is not filled by the newsmaker themselves. rather it gets
filled by those whose role it is in our society to fill such
vacuums, such as "us magazine", or murdoch's rags.
all the mccain campaign needs to do to set the
record straight is to publish her real list.
Rolling Eyes

jeff dinces




You're seriously contending  that bullshit creates a "vacuum" that should be the basis for assuming guilt?  My understanding is this woman had no "list" to publish.  If you have evidence to the contrary, please give it now.

All indications are, and you seem to be agreeing, that  it's fabricated: i.e. a "bloody glove"..., but justified by your "personal certainty" of her guilt, whether manifest in the individually alleged infraction or not. You're really OK with that?

You seem to be defending the notion that your imagination of her "evil" propensities remains justification for this fabricated charge.  Granted, she probably is mindfully engaged in  an agenda that you disagree with.  Does that justify concocked evidence?


...well we  did do the nose...



You, cerberus, are the personification of why I quit smoking pot.

...and will continue to make sure I don't do anything that leads to a jury-trial in your district.

Jones


wtf kind of analogy is that?  now two posts on o.j?
now please stick your racism in your crack pipe.

jeff dinces




Diverting to me means you're struggling to articulate an actual rebuttal.

On what basis do you sling accusations of "racist"?

Justify this personal attack, please, Jeff Dinces.

Jones

Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: cerberus on September 10, 2008, 12:50:34 am
jones, perhaps someone else would like to take up your
mantle while keeping it clean. otherwise i will
not respond further to your corrupted,
racially-charged argument regarding
sarah palin and her apparent lack
of belief in the first amendment.

as far as we can tell, palin attempted to ban books
from the public library; and  subsequently, she
attempted to terminate the librarian  who
refused. sorry, but this really happened.

jeff dinces
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Barry Hufker on September 10, 2008, 02:00:14 am
Yep.  It really happened.

And she has tried repeatedly to get her former brother-in-law fired from his job.  She has used her position as governor to try to make this happen and allegedly fired a manager because he wouldn't do it.

She obviously has a petty, vindictive side of which Dick Cheney would be proud.



Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: organica on September 10, 2008, 09:17:12 am
more on this kind of thing on a CNN clip- sort of a neutral fact checking segment ....

       http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/09/10/johns.i nternet.rumors.cnn

The summary is that the people buying into this particular "internet hazing" are democrats and liberals  who would not vote for her anyhow simply because she is running on the republican ticket ( you know , the open minded ones ?) . It has little real impact on the election .
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 10, 2008, 09:56:55 am
C.O. Jones wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 19:08


Yes, the Libertarian party is disappointing today too.  At least locally, they keep putting up folks that seem to think that legal-weed is the most important challenge facing mankind.

It isn't?

What I meant was that almost everybody running fell on the authoritarian side of the fence.

DS

PS - unsurprisingly for me, the closest guy to my position was my long-time hero, Nader.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 10, 2008, 10:16:10 am
Barry Hufker wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 23:00


She obviously has a petty, vindictive side of which Dick Cheney would be proud.

True enough, and we didn't need rumors to know this. We only had to watch her introductory speech in Ohio (you did, didn't you?) and her stump speech at the Repugnican Feast of National Denigration to know this. She is Cheney writ more obnoxious and far less bright, Rove in a skirt. We need nothing more than to watch her to know this. And yet, despite how plain this is to see, people will vote for her, because she reflects their own white victim-hood and resentment at the loss of national domination.

That's the state of the right in this country, what Nixon and Atwater and Rove all knew. The way to reach people is to tap into their resentment at a perceived loss of what they think used to be theirs by right - cultural and capital dominion over the country. Its racism, and class-war, and apocalyptic all at once. Resentment of others is the key. Nixon was the king of resentment and he showed his party the way and remade it completely. The last Republican we had in national office was Ford, who decried what had become of his party before he died. The people who spoon fed Reagan his pablum and wiped his drool and propped him up in front oif cameras used ol' GE-Ronnie to put an affable face on Nixon's resentment, just like any good ad men do. Now we have resentment in go-go boots.

On the up side, now we know that ALL out-of-wedlock teen pregnancies are a blessing unto the nation and are to be celebrated.

DS
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: organica on September 10, 2008, 11:23:24 am
mgod wrote on Wed, 10 September 2008 10:16

The way to reach people is to tap into their resentment ........... Resentment of others is the key.


It's what keeps the blinders on the many self proclaimed liberals and conservatives for sure .



This looks to me to be  an example of sarcastic resentment .
mgod wrote on Wed, 10 September 2008 10:16


On the up side, now we know that ALL out-of-wedlock teen pregnancies are a blessing unto the nation and are to be celebrated.



warning ;
The moderates are coming ! The moderates are coming !

But it will take a while .

Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: J.J. Blair on September 10, 2008, 11:44:59 am
Here's the real list of banned books:

http://www.catsandbeer.com/politics/sarah-palin-banned-books -list
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Jay Kadis on September 10, 2008, 12:12:58 pm
Realize that this is all irrelevant to the real issues at hand.  The choice is extremely simple: if you believe government should provide services you will be willing to take on some taxation to that end.  If you believe in "every man for himself", you should by all means vote for the Republicans.  Strip away the media/political posturing and that's the choice you're left with.  Choose wisely.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 10, 2008, 01:05:46 pm
I don't know - its not that simple. I've paid more taxes under Republicans, for services NOT provided.

DS
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Steve Hudson on September 10, 2008, 01:12:04 pm
mgod wrote on Wed, 10 September 2008 12:05

I don't know - its not that simple. I've paid more taxes under Republicans, for services NOT provided.

DS


...and been burdened by the Republicans' record federal debt that will have to be paid back somewhere down the line in the form of even higher taxes.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: John Ivan on September 10, 2008, 01:20:08 pm
Jay Kadis wrote on Wed, 10 September 2008 12:12

Realize that this is all irrelevant to the real issues at hand.  The choice is extremely simple: if you believe government should provide services you will be willing to take on some taxation to that end.  If you believe in "every man for himself", you should by all means vote for the Republicans.  Strip away the media/political posturing and that's the choice you're left with.  Choose wisely.



Yes, well, there is the foreign policy stuff to be concerned with too. This is what scares me the most.

I'm not a person who would ever vote based on taxes. If I pay more, I pay more. If I pay less ,I pay less. Money means almost nothing to me. I have enough to pay my bills most of the time, and past that? Fuck it. I'm officially out of this constant race to the next dollar. For good.

What worries me is that these people will continue to get a bunch of us killed and lie about why.. Remember. Dead people are really dead. They don't talk, they don't love, they are dead.

I swear sometimes that Americans think this whole thing is a Law and Order episode. What don't they get about all these dead kids?

Having said that, if you look at the domestic issues and how the parties deal with taxes, Jay is right. If I did care about the money end of this, It would only ad to my reasons to vote for Obama. Barack is the only guy, {other than Hillary/Gal} who is talking about having to actually pay for all this shit.

I have a message for all you who would cry about your taxes. Stop being such a bunch of wimpy little 10 year olds. We have shit to pay for, if you don't like it, that's just to damn bad. Pay up..

Thanks..

Ivan.............................................
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Jay Kadis on September 10, 2008, 02:46:24 pm
mgod wrote on Wed, 10 September 2008 10:05

I don't know - its not that simple. I've paid more taxes under Republicans, for services NOT provided.

DS
See?  It IS that simple.  (Well, nearly.)
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 11, 2008, 12:27:01 pm
http://www.herobuilders.com/08.htm
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 11, 2008, 03:43:13 pm
index.php/fa/9913/0/
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 11, 2008, 03:46:56 pm
<http://www.suntimes.com/>

Roger Ebert on Sarah Palin: The American Idol candidate
September 11, 2008

BY ROGER EBERT Sun-Times Movie Critic

I think I might be able to explain some of Sarah Palin's appeal. She's the "American Idol" candidate. Consider. What defines an "American Idol" finalist? They're good-looking, work well on television, have a sunny personality, are fierce competitors, and so talented, why, they're darned near the real thing. There's a reason "American Idol" gets such high ratings. People identify with the contestants. They think,
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: ssltech on September 11, 2008, 04:50:05 pm
I'm in full agreement with the above.

-But on the subject of never having traveled abroad... -Don't bet against the Neo-Cons turning that into some sort of perverse "virtue".

I mean, they turn Obama's expertise and Harvard professorship, his editorship of the law review, -whatever... ordinarily indications that someone might be a bright individual- and they turn it into "elitism" or "celebrity" with nothing but vicious contempt in how those words are uttered.

I think back to -about 18 months ago- when I sat down over a beer with a couple of (dyed-in-the-wool Republican) bandmates and the conversation touched on John Edwards' chances at getting the nomination, -I made the passing observation that English-speaking overseas countries might not think much of the impression created by another strongly provicial (and VERY southern) accented leader.

The subsequent tone of their amused replies distinctly implied "you can't be serious". -One even said outright: "But Keith....THOSE people don't get to VOTE in these elections!!!"

-And that clued me in to something. -There is a pernicious feeling that "America is #1" which has somehow been dangerously extended to "F
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 11, 2008, 04:59:56 pm
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/61410aa4ff
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: garret on September 11, 2008, 05:29:05 pm
Headline on ABCNEWS.COM now...

"ABC News: Palin says war with Russia may be necessary."

Um, does anyone know if she knows they have nukes?

And they're sort of an ally now?
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Jay Kadis on September 11, 2008, 05:52:29 pm
garret wrote on Thu, 11 September 2008 14:29

Headline on ABCNEWS.COM now...

"ABC News: Palin says war with Russia may be necessary."

Um, does anyone know if she knows they have nukes?

And they're sort of an ally now?
Well, she's obviously picked the right party...
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: GrahameD on September 11, 2008, 06:13:21 pm
Thanks for that Ebert article; I particularly like the last line:

"The most damning indictment against her is that she considered herself a good choice to be a heartbeat away. That shows bad judgment."

Pithy.  The biggest giveaway that she's not the person for the job is that she thinks she's the person for the job.

-Grahame
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: organica on September 11, 2008, 07:10:40 pm
garret wrote on Thu, 11 September 2008 17:29

Headline on ABCNEWS.COM now...

"ABC News: Palin says war with Russia may be necessary."

Um, does anyone know if she knows they have nukes?

And they're sort of an ally now?

Don't know if I'd call Russia an ally .......

But , I had a dream the other night that ( McCain died ? not sure exactly ) Palin became commander in chief and that the Russians nuked Alaska . Guess what happened next ? ....... I'm not real clear what did happen next as I think that I woke up but this disturbing scenario has played itself over a few times in my brain since .

Truthfully , I don't see that actually occurring .  

EDIT .......  here's more     .http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/11/17013/9899/695/5952 69

"When asked by Gibson if under the NATO treaty, the U.S. would have to go to war if Russia again invaded Georgia, Palin responded: "Perhaps so. I mean, that is the agreement when you are a NATO ally, is if another country is attacked, you're going to be expected to be called upon and help.

"And we've got to keep an eye on Russia. For Russia to have exerted such pressure in terms of invading a smaller democratic country, unprovoked, is unacceptable," she told ABC News' Charles Gibson in an exclusive interview."



Pretty humorous watching the Palin witch hunt IMO . The more people look down their nose at her , the more it seems to backfire . Can't blame folks for trying .  Too early to tell but so far she's jumping through hoops quite well  .... likey or not .



Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: cerberus on September 11, 2008, 10:09:38 pm
russia was to be our economic ally; they would buy our goods and services; and we
would buy their oil. i guess that someone had a problem with this arrangement...

instead, we decided that we would get our oil from the middle east, and oursourced our
labor to china. also to borrow money from china; except for the chinese money which
we lent to americans in order to maintain an illusion of continuous growth. there
would be no point for us to do business with the russians... their economy
has been buoyed by oil, but we chose not to buy oil from russia.

the housing boom stimulated the u.s. economy, but when the bubble burst,
it resulted in the collapse of the u.s. dollar, and the sub prime crisis:
                        http://freetech4teachers.blogspot.com/2008/07/cartoon-explan ation-of-sub-prime.html
unfortunately, we bungled the war for oil.
and our reputation as the "police of the
world". so despite the proximity of
bountiful venezualan oil, we
find ourselves amidst an
energy crisis too.

now we've provoked russia into
starting a war, which we plan
to join as soon as we can get
rid of our pesky liberals. it is
hoped that a further military
investment can prop up the
parts of our ecomony that
are still important to us.
(and there's oil in
them thar hills!)

remember, we still make
the best weapons
systems. please
buy them!

"I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straight forward and
trustworthy and we had a very good dialogue.

"I was able to get a sense of his soul.

"He's a man deeply committed to his country and the best interests of his country
and I appreciate very much the frank dialogue and that's the beginning
of a very constructive relationship," Mr Bush said.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1392791.stm



jeff dinces
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Berolzheimer on September 11, 2008, 10:51:56 pm
groundhog wrote on Thu, 11 September 2008 16:10


"And we've got to keep an eye on Russia. For Russia to have exerted such pressure in terms of invading a smaller democratic country, unprovoked, is unacceptable," she told ABC News' Charles Gibson in an exclusive interview."



Pretty humorous watching the Palin witch hunt IMO . The more people look down their nose at her , the more it seems to backfire . Can't blame folks for trying .  Too early to tell but so far she's jumping through hoops quite well  .... likey or not .






Well for her to say that Russia attacked without provocation is either ignorant or propagandistic.  It was Georgia that attacked a region that was being supported politically by Russia, and Russia went in & repelled the Georgian forces.

Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: compasspnt on September 11, 2008, 11:02:34 pm
GrahameD wrote on Thu, 11 September 2008 18:13

The biggest giveaway that she's not the person for the job is that she thinks she's the person for the job.



God forbid that anyone should have confidence in themselves.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Barry Hufker on September 11, 2008, 11:16:53 pm
God forbid that a person should have an accurate assessment of themselves and say they are not qualified.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: GrahameD on September 11, 2008, 11:23:47 pm
compasspnt wrote on Thu, 11 September 2008 23:02

GrahameD wrote on Thu, 11 September 2008 18:13

The biggest giveaway that she's not the person for the job is that she thinks she's the person for the job.



God forbid that anyone should have confidence in themselves.



Having confidence and belief in yourself is a wonderful thing; so is self-awareness, and knowledge of where your strengths lie and do not lie.

Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: cerberus on September 12, 2008, 12:07:21 am
in case anyone is seeking a link to bruce wilson's excellent
video documentary on the wasilla assemblies
of god church... here it is; a must see:

http://vimeo.com/1679097

jeff dinces
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Dominick on September 12, 2008, 09:57:38 am
 More fun

index.php/fa/9925/0/
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 12, 2008, 10:30:06 am
compasspnt wrote on Thu, 11 September 2008 20:02


God forbid that anyone should have confidence in themselves

I'd say, Terry, that there's a large gap between self-confidence and self-delusion. And I hate to harp on it but sometimes the difference is intelligence. Watching this woman speak, watching her be interviewed, only gives me deep concern that she's been handed a national well-financed platform to bluster on. I personally don't think she can understand the meaning of the qualifications issue here. There used to be a word used in this context, Cuomo used it quite a bit: gravitas.

Dan Quayle had plenty of confidence in himself.

DS
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: ssltech on September 15, 2008, 11:18:25 am
It bears watching...

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080914/capt.9066dbfc255147f6b58ce897871b40b1.saturday_night_live_tina_fey_nyjc102.jpg

(Click to see the sketch)

Keith
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: John Ivan on September 15, 2008, 11:45:35 am
Wow! She has this Sarah woman nailed. This will be a fun season..

Thanks for posting. Funny stuff.

Ivan.................
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Berolzheimer on September 15, 2008, 02:00:47 pm
Oops! removed by NBC...
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 15, 2008, 02:05:38 pm
Still here for now:

http://entertainment.msn.com/video/playern/?pid=2HLU_6evr__H BxqGVi6GzXEVAFNFvEq0&GT1=42003
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: John Ivan on September 15, 2008, 02:35:09 pm
compasspnt wrote on Thu, 11 September 2008 23:02

GrahameD wrote on Thu, 11 September 2008 18:13

The biggest giveaway that she's not the person for the job is that she thinks she's the person for the job.



God forbid that anyone should have confidence in themselves.




As much as I disagree with her positions on the issues{ to the extent that she might have any}, I'm with Terry here. Of all the arguments to make against her, this aint one of 'em..

The above sentence makes no sense.. really, but ya know what I'm sayin'.. Right?

Never mind! I'm going back to bed! I don't want to fly across the country again for a while!

Night night#$%^&*(

Ivan...............
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: zmix on September 15, 2008, 04:48:16 pm
John Ivan wrote on Mon, 15 September 2008 14:35

compasspnt wrote on Thu, 11 September 2008 23:02

GrahameD wrote on Thu, 11 September 2008 18:13

The biggest giveaway that she's not the person for the job is that she thinks she's the person for the job.



God forbid that anyone should have confidence in themselves.




As much as I disagree with her positions on the issues{ to the extent that she might have any}, I'm with Terry here. Of all the arguments to make against her, this aint one of 'em..

The above sentence makes no sense.. really, but ya know what I'm sayin'.. Right?

Never mind! I'm going back to bed! I don't want to fly across the country again for a while!

Night night#$%^&*(

Ivan...............


It's not 'confidence' that is the problem here... it's her Bush-esque sense of ENTITLEMENT...

She's completely lacking in humility or any other empathetic emotion....
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: organica on September 15, 2008, 05:30:56 pm
Dear Piranhas ,

Here's a email that I just received that I do find fascinating . enjoy !


=============================================




Who am I?  




I am under 45 years old and I love the outdoors, I hunt, I am a Republican reformer, I have taken on the Republican Party establishment, I have many children, I have a spot on the national ticket as vice president with  less than two years in the governor's office.    Did you guess?












I am Teddy Roosevelt  in 1900
index.php/fa/9953/0/
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: John Ivan on September 15, 2008, 07:31:42 pm
Great.. Now, if you don't mind. Please explain what this has to do with the Governor of Alaska.

Do you have a handle on her policies? What is it about her record and/or her positions that you find acceptable ..

1900 has nothing what ever to do with the subject at hand. Nothing.

Ivan.................
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: PRobb on September 15, 2008, 09:41:21 pm
groundhog wrote on Mon, 15 September 2008 17:30

Dear Piranhas ,

Here's a email that I just received that I do find fascinating . enjoy !


============================================

Who am I?  




I am under 45 years old and I love the outdoors, I hunt, I am a Republican reformer, I have taken on the Republican Party establishment, I have many children, I have a spot on the national ticket as vice president with  less than two years in the governor's office.    Did you guess?



I am Teddy Roosevelt  in 1900



Let's see if that analogy holds up. Before Teddy ran for vice president he graduated magna cum laude from Harvard, published military history texts that became academic standards, became a highly decorated military officer, was Chief of Police in New York City, assistant secretary of the Navy and then Governor of New York.

BZZZZZZZZZT! Sorry. Try again.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: ssltech on September 16, 2008, 08:12:04 am
...And he really WAS a reformer.

Palin on the other hand is a repainted "Mutton dressed as Lamb"/"More of the same" hard-line Republican, who might possibly have more chance of success changing the brand of toilet paper in the Washington Ladies' lavatories... But that's about all we could hope for, other than going further down the pipe.

-This financial sewer-pipe which we're all headed down looks a lot like the S&L crap from twenty-plus years ago. -And just guess who had his fingers in THAT pie?

-Yup. John-Boy McCain.

Keith
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: PRobb on September 16, 2008, 08:19:08 am
ssltech wrote on Tue, 16 September 2008 08:12

...And he really WAS a reformer.



Yes he was. In fact, the modern Republican party was born in a conflict between the reform wing headed by TR and the corporatist wing headed by Taft. Guess which side won? (hint- TR ran in 1912 on a third party, Taft was the Republican candidate)
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 16, 2008, 10:17:13 am
PRobb wrote on Tue, 16 September 2008 05:19

ssltech wrote on Tue, 16 September 2008 08:12

...And he really WAS a reformer.



Yes he was. In fact, the modern Republican party was born in a conflict between the reform wing headed by TR and the corporatist wing headed by Taft. Guess which side won? (hint- TR ran in 1912 on a third party, Taft was the Republican candidate)

Now THERE'S a fitting analogy. Here's Frank Rich on why:

September 14, 2008
The New York Times/Op-Ed Columnist
The Palin-Whatshisname Ticket
By FRANK RICH

WITH all due deference to lipstick, let’s advance the story. A week ago the question was: Is Sarah Palin qualified to be a heartbeat away from the presidency? The question today: What kind of president would Sarah Palin be?

It’s an urgent matter, because if we’ve learned anything from the G.O.P. convention and its aftermath, it’s that the 2008 edition of John McCain is too weak to serve as America’s chief executive. This unmentionable truth, more than race, is now the real elephant in the room of this election.

No longer able to remember his principles any better than he can distinguish between Sunnis and Shia, McCain stands revealed as a guy who can be easily rolled by anyone who sells him a plan for “victory,” whether in Iraq or in Michigan. A McCain victory on Election Day will usher in a Palin presidency, with McCain serving as a transitional front man, an even weaker Bush to her Cheney.

The ambitious Palin and the ruthless forces she represents know it, too. You can almost see them smacking their lips in anticipation, whether they’re wearing lipstick or not.

This was made clear in the most chilling passage of Palin’s acceptance speech. Aligning herself with “a young farmer and a haberdasher from Missouri” who “followed an unlikely path to the vice presidency,” she read a quote from an unidentified writer who, she claimed, had praised Truman: “We grow good people in our small towns, with honesty and sincerity and dignity.” Then Palin added a snide observation of her own: Such small-town Americans, she said, “run our factories” and “fight our wars” and are “always proud” of their country. As opposed to those lazy, shiftless, unproud Americans — she didn’t have to name names — who are none of the above.

There were several creepy subtexts at work here. The first was the choice of Truman. Most 20th-century vice presidents and presidents in both parties hailed from small towns, but she just happened to alight on a Democrat who ascended to the presidency when an ailing president died in office. Just as striking was the unnamed writer she quoted. He was identified by Thomas Frank in The Wall Street Journal as the now largely forgotten but once powerful right-wing Hearst columnist Westbrook Pegler.

Palin, who lies with ease about her own record, misrepresented Pegler’s too. He decreed America was “done for” after Truman won a full term in 1948. For his part, Truman regarded the columnist as a “guttersnipe,” and with good reason. Pegler was a rabid Joe McCarthyite who loathed F.D.R. and Ike and tirelessly advanced the theory that American Jewish immigrants from Eastern Europe (“geese,” he called them) were all likely Communists.

Surely Palin knows no more about Pegler than she does about the Bush doctrine. But the people around her do, and they will be shaping a Palin presidency. That they would inject not just Pegler’s words but spirit into their candidate’s speech shows where they’re coming from. Rick Davis, the McCain campaign manager, said that the Palin-sparked convention created “a whole new Republican Party,” but what it actually did was exhume an old one from its crypt.

The specifics have changed in our new century, but the vitriolic animus of right-wing populism preached by Pegler and McCarthy and revived by the 1990s culture wars remains the same. The game is always to pit the good, patriotic real Americans against those subversive, probably gay “cosmopolitan” urbanites (as the sometime cross-dresser Rudy Giuliani has it) who threaten to take away everything that small-town folk hold dear.

The racial component to this brand of politics was undisguised in St. Paul. Americans saw a virtually all-white audience yuk it up when Giuliani ridiculed Barack Obama’s “only in America” success as an affirmative-action fairy tale — and when he and Palin mocked Obama’s history as a community organizer in Chicago. Neither party has had so few black delegates (1.5 percent) in the 40 years since the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies started keeping a record.

But race is just one manifestation of the emotion that defined the Palin rollout. That dominant emotion is fear — an abject fear of change. Fear of a demographical revolution that will put whites in the American minority by 2042. Fear of the technological revolution and globalization that have gutted those small towns and factories Palin apotheosized.

And, last but hardly least, fear of illegal immigrants who do the low-paying jobs that Americans don’t want to do and of legal immigrants who do the high-paying jobs that poorly educated Americans are not qualified to do. No less revealing than Palin’s convention invocation of Pegler was the pointed omission of any mention of immigration, once the hottest Republican issue, by either her or McCain. Saying the word would have cued an eruption of immigrant-bashing ugliness, Pegler-style, before a national television audience. That wouldn’t play in the swing states of Colorado, New Mexico and Nevada, where Obama already has a more than 2-to-1 lead among Hispanic voters. (Bush captured roughly 40 percent of the Hispanic vote in 2004.)

Since St. Paul, Democrats have been feasting on the hypocrisy of the Palin partisans, understandably enough. The same Republicans who attack Democrats for being too P.C. about race now howl about sexism with such abandon you half-expect Phyllis Schlafly and Carly Fiorina to stage a bra-burning. The same gang that once fueled Internet rumors and media feeding frenzies over the Clintons’ private lives now express pious outrage when the same fate befalls the Palins.

But the ultimate hypocrisy is that these woebegone, frightened opponents of change, sworn enemies of race-based college-admission initiatives, are now demanding their own affirmative action program for white folks applying to the electoral college. They want the bar for admission to the White House to be placed so low that legitimate scrutiny and criticism of Palin’s qualifications, record and family values can all be placed off limits. Byron York of National Review, a rare conservative who acknowledges the double standard, captured it best: “If the Obamas had a 17-year-old daughter who was unmarried and pregnant by a tough-talking black kid, my guess is if they all appeared onstage at a Democratic convention and the delegates were cheering wildly, a number of conservatives might be discussing the issue of dysfunctional black families.”

The cunning of the Palin choice as a political strategy is that a candidate who embodies fear of change can be sold as a “maverick” simply because she looks the part. Her marketers have a lot to work with. Palin is not only the first woman on a Republican presidential ticket, but she is young, vibrant and a Washington outsider with no explicit connection to Bush or the war in Iraq. That package looks like change even if what’s inside is anything but.

How do you run against that flashy flimflam? You don’t. Karl Rove for once gave the Democrats a real tip rather than a bum steer when he wrote last week that if Obama wants to win, “he needs to remember he’s running against John McCain for president,” not Palin for vice president. Obama should keep stepping up the blitz on McCain’s flip-flops, confusion, ignorance and blurriness on major issues (from education to an exit date from Iraq), rather than her gaffes and r
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 16, 2008, 11:39:27 am
And on the topic of "taking on the establishment":

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/sa rahpalin/2827217/Neoconservatives-plan-Project-Sarah-Palin-t o-shape-future-American-foreign-policy.html
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: arlenthompson on September 16, 2008, 06:14:59 pm
Quote:

mgod       
And on the topic of "taking on the establishment":

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/sa  rahpalin/2827217/Neoconservatives-plan-Project-Sarah-Palin-t o-shape-future-American-foreign-policy.html


Saw that one coming a mile away.  Palin is a Neocon wet dream for a leader, having someone to mold ideologically without having to deal with all that "education" and "thinking".  She is the perfect noble liar.  I think she must be either a cynic, or dangerously naive, to be running a campaign on wanting to "stick it to the elites" and then get tutored on foreign policy by Bill Kristol.

Here's a little something about what to expect policy wise:

http://exiledonline.com/apocalypse-palin/

Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 23, 2008, 12:18:14 pm
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/suzy-shuster/an-open-letter-to -tina-fe_b_128582.html
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: ssltech on September 23, 2008, 12:32:06 pm
Given that it's been about a MONTH now, Sarah Palin hasn't held a SINGLE press conference. We start the debates this week, and it's only about 6 weeks to the election.

...AND FOR SOME INEXPLICABLE REASON, PEOPLE STILL THINK THAT SHE'S NOT HIDING ANYTHING, NOR IS SHE IN ANY WAY CONCEALING A WEAKNESS.

 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080923/ap_on_el_pr/palin_leader s

Keith
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Jay Kadis on September 23, 2008, 12:43:34 pm
Apparently they learned their lesson after letting Dan Quayle speak in the presence of the press.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on September 23, 2008, 04:29:48 pm
index.php/fa/10002/0/
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: John Ivan on September 24, 2008, 02:53:13 am
arlenthompson wrote on Tue, 16 September 2008 18:14


 Palin is a Neocon wet dream for a leader, having someone to mold ideologically without having to deal with all that "education" and "thinking".  She is the perfect noble liar.  I think she must be either a cynic, or dangerously naive, to be running a campaign on wanting to "stick it to the elites" and then get tutored on foreign policy by Bill Kristol.



I just had to repeat this.. It's some wild stuff we have going on these days in Presidential politics.

Good grief. Can they really win? I go back and forth being worried and laughing..

I admit. I'm a little afraid, nervous.


Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: organica on October 03, 2008, 03:05:08 pm
J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 10:43



Can't wait to see the Biden v. Palin debates.

So , how was it ?  
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: ssltech on October 03, 2008, 03:26:48 pm
...you should know... it was in YOUR town!  Very Happy

Wink

Actually they both did very well, I thought. -No disaster, no "own-goals" scored. Both avoided detail on most of the questions, and often avoided the questions... though she perhaps did more of that than he did; -leaving as she did the subject very swiftly, and returning directly to her talking-points. Joe had a LOT more data, but data is very dry. She had homespun 'cookies and cupcakes' when she settled in (after about a half hour or so).

For the first... four I think... questions, EVERY Sarah Palin answer's first sentence contained the word "but" which immediately preceded a departure from the subject/topic and immediately onto scripted talking point.

Also, never mind winking (which she did quite a bit of), she was blinking at an average rate of once a second (a sign of stress) whereas Joe was blinking once every couple of sentences, perhaps... right up until about midway through the debate, when he SUDDENLY and precipitously increased his blink-rate to about once a second also, right when he felt 'obliged' to respond/react and reached his most aggressive behaviour of the night.

My feeling was that she 'got to him' on whatever the subject was (I'm afraid I don't recall what she'd said immediately before) and it did indeed take him a little while to 'cool off', but I really want to review the video to see what it was that prompted his mood change... -Even my wife said "Wow... -he's pissed about something" while he was replying.

On the whole it was a VERY creditable performance from both, with perhaps Palin impressing me most as a quick study, though I still cannot go with her or McCain, though I must declare that her ability to 'needle' an opponent must NOT be underestimated.

Keith

Keith
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Barry Hufker on October 03, 2008, 03:45:36 pm
"...you should know... it was in YOUR town!"

No it wasn't.  It was in Saint Louis, Missouri!  MY home town.

Keith, I think you give Ms. Palin far too much credit for having "gotten to" Biden.  It was clear - on the right side was a soccer mom and on the left side was an experienced statesman.  She never angered him.  He was just forceful a couple of times, stating clearly that Republican lies are just that.  I didn't have any real opinion about Biden until last night.  Now I respect him a lot.  She tried needling him and she put the best face one could on the absolute nothing the Repugnants have to offer but it was still nothing.

Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: ssltech on October 03, 2008, 04:03:54 pm
Darn it... -I could've SWORN that I heard it was in St. Paul...

My abject and unreserved apologies to you both for confusing the two cities. -My geographically-challenged brain must have heard "St.. something Miss-something" and filled in the rest on auto=pilot.

She definitely played the "soccer mom" act right up to -and in my case at least, slightly beyond- the point of irritation, and the little winks, head nods and waves, the name-check of the school in Alaska ("where all the students are gonna get extra credit for watching this tonight!") etc. were a little TOO cutesy for my tastes...

-But I swear that Joe Biden started off the evening scarcely blinking (Ooh ya, dont'cha know... it was even a Palin quote that when she was offered the spot on the ticket she "didn't blink... -because ya know, if ya blink..." -but she sure as hell made up for  all that non-blinking last night!) until a moment where he suddenly and dramatically increased his blink-rate... If I can find the spot I'll post it here, but I swear that something inside of him was 'triggered'.

And trust me, I don't want to give her undue credit, nor would I care to even consider that she could be the VP in a few months, without suppressing a gag reflex, -but I was impressed with how she improved over last week's "moose-in-the-headlights" interview bits.

Keith
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: PRobb on October 03, 2008, 04:04:39 pm
I thought the first presidential debate was a draw. I thought last night was a clear win for Biden. Palin is a mannequin. She had about four answers that she repackaged over and over again. And her "gee gosh-a-whillickers" routine gets very grating very quickly.

Bottom line- the job of the VP is to be ready to become president. I can see Joe Biden in the oval office. Can anyone say with a straight face they can imagine Sarah Palin is ready to be president?


index.php/fa/10063/0/
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: ssltech on October 03, 2008, 04:36:12 pm
The 'quaver' in her voice gradually eased as she settled in, also.

First answer: "Ask a soccer mom... we're all just sick about this!".

Second answer: "America has the greatest people in the world"

Third answer: "Yer darn right... hockey moms and Joe Sixpack got talked into this by dose dere evil predator-lenders, don'tcha know!" (...and the response to Biden's third answer also begins "Darn right...") and a final rebuttal "I may not answer the questions the way that the moderator and you want to hear, but I wanna talk STRAIGHT to the American people...

...I see a wanna be 'populist' pattern developing.

-Reviewing it all the day afterwards, I DO think that Joe Biden did rather better than I initially gave him credit for... and Palin looks a little more 'desperate' in retrospect.

...Oh, and that "I call that the ultimate 'Bridge to Nowhere'" -JUST as the clock ticked out was a masterfully-timed "joke-grenade", which those attending the debate actually laughed at about four seconds afterwards... -VERY cleverly timed on Mr. Biden's part, I think.

Palin looks a little bit like this now that I review the recording..
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000HB0QRY.01-A25KCI3KJ0JKBZ._SS500_SCLZZZZZZZ_V39187993_.jpg

...although she sounds like this:
http://remotecontrol.mtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/miss-south-carolina.jpg

Keith
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: ssltech on October 03, 2008, 05:08:32 pm
Okay, here's the clip that I was thinking of:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydnESMZ-WSE

At 3:28 in he asks to respond, and his blink rate finally matches hers... I think she knows that she's bothering him in some way, because her slightly condescending reply (at 4:22) is:

"Aaaah, say it aint' so, Joe. -There you go again, pointing backwards again though, -you prefaced your whole comment with 'the Bush administration', -now dog-gone it, let's tell Americans what we have, -to plan to do, -FOR them, -in the future..."

-If he'd even tried to be half that 'familiar', he'd have been torn to pieces.

Keith
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: John Ivan on October 03, 2008, 05:52:18 pm
ssltech wrote on Fri, 03 October 2008 17:08

Okay, here's the clip that I was thinking of:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydnESMZ-WSE

At 3:28 in he asks to respond, and his blink rate finally matches hers... I think she knows that she's bothering him in some way, because her slightly condescending reply (at 4:22) is:

"Aaaah, say it aint' so, Joe. -There you go again, pointing backwards again though, -you prefaced your whole comment with 'the Bush administration', -now dog-gone it, let's tell Americans what we have, -to plan to do, -FOR them, -in the future..."

-If he'd even tried to be half that 'familiar', he'd have been torn to pieces.

Keith



HA! Yeah, when they met on stage, she asked: "hey, is it OK if I call ya Joe?"-- he said "sure"..

Funny.. She's a trip..

Ivan.........................
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: organica on October 04, 2008, 10:50:35 am
Uhh ...... it was enjoyable . Sort of like seeing  some child  in a schoolyard after being  ridiculed by a heartless lemming-like group of kids , coming out on top somehow ....... or like the story of the Ugly Duckling .

I was also left with the impression that Palin has a higher IQ and is more charismatic than Biden and McCain  . Would love to see her in a talk with Obama or the 4 of them in some sort of group debate /discussion but can guarantee you that Obama's handlers would be afraid to do so .

SUBSTANTIVELY ...... they both did well . One more idealist , the other one more old-school imo .


<"Bottom line- the job of the VP is to be ready to become president. I can see Joe Biden in the oval office. Can anyone say with a straight face they can imagine Sarah Palin is ready to be president?">

The V.P.'s Job: The only duty the U.S. Constitution assigns the VP is to act as presiding officer of the Senate. But the VP also serves as ceremonial assistant to the President and is an important part of the President's administration.

The VP is only "a heartbeat away" from becoming the President. He or she must be ready to become President or Acting President if anything happens to the President. 13 VPs have gone on to become President, 8 because of the death of a President. Gerald Ford became President after Richard M. Nixon resigned, and the rest were elected to the office.

ANYHOW ......  She'd be an improvement over Bush if she started today .

Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: ssltech on October 04, 2008, 12:13:32 pm
groundhog wrote

ANYHOW ......  She'd be an improvement over Bush if she started today.


...And with that I must differ most strongly.

Why would she possibly be an 'improvement'? -To me she's about the same. -Prepp-able (impressively) for a single arranged debate, able to read a script (okay... that alone is an improvement, I'll grant you) but just as inexperienced, just as religeously zealous (or perhaps even more so), and even more poorly educated. She still can't say "nuclear", she's a 'stalking horse' darling for the far-right, and she's still doggedly pitching to "gee-willickers" 'plain-folk' as her hail-Mary dying-seconds effort. She's made the same number of overseas trips as the Shrub when HE was elected (unless you count a drinking-binge trip to Cancun that he made in his younger days) and she's STILL for abstinance-only... -just like Bush the idiot.

So the only way that I can see her as an "improvement" is being able to modulate her voice more convincingly when she reads, and having a nicer rack.

In terms of education, I'd be terrified of her backing this country even further into the blind alley of ignorance than the shrub has done. -In terms of foreign policy she knows even less than the shrub does now. -In several other ways she's starting a LONG way behind when Bush became president: -After all, he had a year or more of campaigning to prepare... Seven weeks ago, she said she didn't know what the VP's job entails...

So while reasonable people might consider the notion that the notion that she'd be an 'improvement' over 'cockBusher', I doubt that MANY would conclude so. -Not once they've REALLY considered the facts impassively.

Add to that the following fact:

THE ENTIRE REST OF THE WORLD -BY OVERWHELMING MAJORITY- THINKS THAT AMERICA WOULD FINALLY PROVE ITS LACK OF ABILITY TO SELF-GOVERN COMPETENTLY IF WE ELECTED THIS WOMAN VP.

Sobering.

Keith
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: John Ivan on October 05, 2008, 06:12:30 am
The idea that Obama is in any way "afraid" of McCain or Palin is just some kind of a joke. Right?

Why do some folks simply not notice that there is only one campaign that is saying anything at all?? McCain is saying nothing new at all.. I've looked and looked, seriously. I have actually read nearly everything either campaign has said. McCain and Palin are coming up empty.. All they have is "Obama pals around with teristsiststs"..

The VP debate was a joke. Biden was being incredibly kind. He could have ripped her to shreds. He could have taken that debate over completely and asked her, "Do you know anything? Anything at all? Why are you even here? This is serious stuff. Who told you you could do this?"

But to many Americans would be "Shocked! Shocked I say!" that someone would have the balls to point out how completely irresponsible the Palin choice was. It would require real thought about the implications of this dim wit actually "accidentally" ending up in the White House.

What the Obama Folks have to be careful about, is saying, pointing out, reminding Americans what the truth is. This will get him in trouble in a hurry. Most people can't be bothered with it.

"Palin is a liar. She is dangerous because she isn't informed enough to hold the office. McCain is a two faced liar. There are hundreds of documents and decades of action that prove this."

People don't like this.

We might be screwed. If the republican party wins this thing because they were able to scare the American people into believing "Obama likes to hang out with them teriststssts", then my hunch that to many of us are honestly and hopelessly to stupid to deserve the nation we have, will have been proven beyond any doubt to be true. If this is going to be in the debate, then we don't deserve what we have..

It is so very disgusting. And predictable.

See why I say that the people who start this kind of thing should NOT be the people to finish it? I believe that Democrats have been pushed into a wall here again. And this time, they need to spend what ever they need to destroy the political lives of the top half of the neo-con movement..

If you accuse Obama of "hanging out with Terissssssts",, you should pay with your career.

Ivan...................
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: MagnetoSound on October 05, 2008, 08:47:29 am
John Ivan wrote on Sun, 05 October 2008 11:12

The VP debate was a joke. Biden was being incredibly kind. He could have ripped her to shreds. He could have taken that debate over completely and asked her, "Do you know anything? Anything at all? Why are you even here? This is serious stuff. Who told you you could do this?"




Totally.


Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Steve Hudson on October 05, 2008, 01:11:57 pm
I wasn't shocked to hear Sarah Palin accuse Obama of hanging out with terrorists yesterday (the Ayers reference), as many GOP pundits have said that the McCain campaign has to go ape-shit negative on Obama to have any chance of winning next month. But if McCain brings that point up in Tuesday's debate, I hope Obama hits back, for example by pointing out that McCain's campaign manager and senate chief of staff are both former senior lobbyists for Freddie Mac. That should resonate with a few voters.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: John Ivan on October 05, 2008, 02:02:55 pm
Steve Hudson wrote on Sun, 05 October 2008 13:11

I wasn't shocked to hear Sarah Palin accuse Obama of hanging out with terrorists yesterday (the Ayers reference), as many GOP pundits have said that the McCain campaign has to go ape-shit negative on Obama to have any chance of winning next month. But if McCain bring that point up in Tuesday's debate, I hope Obama hits back, for example by pointing out that McCain's campaign manager and senate chief of staff are both former senior lobbyists for Freddie Mac. That should resonate with a few voters.



Indeed. Also, I hope he points out what an insult to the American people it is for McCain to believe we are shallow and uninformed enough to except the language that Palin used. It's horrible.. Accusing a presidential candidate of being pals with terorists, isn't funny, and Obama should say as much..

Ivan.......................
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: jimlongo on October 05, 2008, 02:27:57 pm
Keating 5 and David Ifshin
Title: McCain put country at risk
Post by: jimlongo on October 14, 2008, 02:16:48 pm
McCain put country at risk with Palin pick says top GOP strategist.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/14/bush-strategist-mcc ain-kn_n_134570.html
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Larrchild on October 15, 2008, 03:03:29 pm
Lil ditty, about Sarah:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DIc8jdra0o
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: John Ivan on October 15, 2008, 04:26:56 pm
Larrchild wrote on Wed, 15 October 2008 15:03

Lil ditty, about Sarah:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DIc8jdra0o



Astoundingly well done!! This warms my heart.. They are having a blast saying what they mean to say.. It's very clever for what it is and the guitar sound was pretty nice too.

Good on em'!! Laughing  Laughing

Ivan..................
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Steve Hudson on October 17, 2008, 06:00:05 pm
A brilliant piece by former Reagan speechwriter Peggy Noonan on Palin:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122419210832542317.html
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: MagnetoSound on October 18, 2008, 06:36:59 am

You've got to hand it to Reagan, he had a great speech writer.

Yep. Heh heh, he sure diddly did.


Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Hallams on October 18, 2008, 07:04:05 am
Larrchild wrote on Thu, 16 October 2008 06:03

Lil ditty, about Sarah:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DIc8jdra0o


In the true spirit of a lament. The guy particularly.

Very clever and funny but watching this  made me feel quite sad.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Steve Hudson on October 22, 2008, 03:17:34 pm
The McCain campaign really needs to keep this woman on script or locked up. Now she's telling people that as VP she would "run the Senate."

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: John Ivan on October 22, 2008, 03:24:32 pm
Yep.. She's gonna get right in there and run the Senate.. I bet they will be surprised!! You betcha!!

This woman knows nothing.. It's worse than I thought..

Ivan..................
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: jimlongo on October 22, 2008, 03:29:56 pm
John Ivan wrote on Wed, 22 October 2008 15:24


This woman knows nothing.. It's worse than I thought..


Its way worse than I'd hoped in my wildest dreams!
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Berolzheimer on October 22, 2008, 04:27:34 pm
jimlongo wrote on Wed, 22 October 2008 12:29

John Ivan wrote on Wed, 22 October 2008 15:24


This woman knows nothing.. It's worse than I thought..


Its way worse than I'd hoped in my wildest dreams!


Yah, I'm getting gladder & gladder that McShame picked her.

Title: Campaign implosion
Post by: jimlongo on October 22, 2008, 07:27:20 pm
comments from Chuck Todd regarding the upcoming NBC interview with McCain and Palin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb3BeBglZks
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: Larrchild on October 22, 2008, 07:31:50 pm
Wow, just watched that live about 10 sec ago.
He's searching for proper adjectives to describe the badness.
"It's like..they're sort of..they seem..the chemistry isn't...I mean the body language just isn't.." When newscasters become speechless, that's something.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: mgod on October 22, 2008, 10:18:24 pm
From Rosanne Cash, seen in Nashville:

index.php/fa/10220/0/
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: PRobb on October 22, 2008, 11:10:47 pm
John Ivan wrote on Wed, 22 October 2008 15:24

Yep.. She's gonna get right in there and run the Senate.. I bet they will be surprised!! You betcha!!

This woman knows nothing.. It's worse than I thought..

Ivan..................

Nothing.
Nothing at all.
Incredible.
Title: Re: Sarah Palin is McLazarus' VP pick
Post by: zmix on October 27, 2008, 03:16:34 pm
  http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photo/_new/081027-prezdolls-palin-vlrg-7a.widec.jpg