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R/E/P => R/E/P Archives => j. hall => Topic started by: 02R96 on September 27, 2007, 02:11:43 pm

Title: Muff Question
Post by: 02R96 on September 27, 2007, 02:11:43 pm
Now that I have your attention...  Very Happy

What is the difference between the black box Russian BIG MUFF PI and the regular silver BIG MUFF PI?

Dan

Okay, let the jokes roll, I know they're coming...
Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: Podgorny on September 27, 2007, 02:17:06 pm
Neither is as cool as the green russian one.



Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: 02R96 on September 27, 2007, 04:00:46 pm
I guess I should have Googled first...

http://singlecoil.com/docs/russian_muff.pdf
Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: WallyWest on September 27, 2007, 06:40:57 pm
I've been close to pulling the trigger on a big muff lately. Does anyone know what the sonic differences are between the different models.

I know that the bassist from Ben Folds prefers the green Russian along with most.
Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: 02R96 on September 27, 2007, 08:59:04 pm
Check out the link I posted.

From what I've been reading, it sounds like the black box Russian is more of a dark over-driven sound, the green box is the most fuzzy, and the US version doesn't sound like any of the Russians.

Your best bet is to try them and see; that is, if you can find a store that has the US and Black Russian models. However, it seems there is a big difference in quality between the US and Russian models. Buyer beware!

Not an endorsement, but there is a seller on eBay that is marketing modified black Russian models that have the cheap components replaced with quality ones. A quick search will find them easily.

Aloha!  Very Happy
Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: Fibes on September 28, 2007, 12:26:40 am
Podgorny wrote on Thu, 27 September 2007 14:17

Neither is as cool as the green russian one.






I got a RED ARMY and a vintage Muff, they both rock.

The new ones, meh.


Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: 02R96 on September 28, 2007, 09:24:33 am
Yeah, but try and find a Red Army box. Even if you could, think of the price! I did see a couple of Green boxes on eBay though...
Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: Electric Warrior on September 28, 2007, 10:53:31 am
here's some big muff circuits:
http://www.pisotones.com/BigMuffPi/psst/BMP_versions.htm

can't tell you anything about the tonal differences, though.
be aware that electro harmonix is currently making "little big muffs" in smaller boxex in addition to the regular (oversized box) ones. The little big muff circuit is said to be closer to the vintage (triangle) ones.
You might want to search the diystompboxes.com forums for more information on the different big muff circuits.
Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: 02R96 on September 28, 2007, 11:02:46 am
With all this talk about "fuzz" boxes...

Which brand/box is the "fuzziest"? I'm wanting a real hairy sounding tone minus a lot of overdrive.
Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: WallyWest on September 28, 2007, 11:44:50 am
cheers for the links and info everyone, I had to ask my local shop to get some reissues in for me.  Seems like all anyone stocks around here is Boss pedals.
Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: TheViking on September 29, 2007, 01:09:15 am
If you get a Big Muff, make sure it looks like this...

index.php/fa/6349/0/
Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: TheViking on September 29, 2007, 01:11:50 am
02R96 wrote on Fri, 28 September 2007 11:02

With all this talk about "fuzz" boxes...

Which brand/box is the "fuzziest"? I'm wanting a real hairy sounding tone minus a lot of overdrive.


I had a really great experience with an original Foxx Tone Machine pedal a few years ago.   It might be what you're looking for.   The problem is finding one.
Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: 02R96 on September 29, 2007, 11:13:32 am
I found this site...

http://www.pedalgeek.com

It's cool because they have audio samples of the different pedals so you can hear them before you buy them!  Very Happy
Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: Fibes on September 30, 2007, 01:06:51 pm
TheViking wrote on Sat, 29 September 2007 01:11

02R96 wrote on Fri, 28 September 2007 11:02

With all this talk about "fuzz" boxes...

Which brand/box is the "fuzziest"? I'm wanting a real hairy sounding tone minus a lot of overdrive.


I had a really great experience with an original Foxx Tone Machine pedal a few years ago.   It might be what you're looking for.   The problem is finding one.


The reissues are pretty good.

and this guy makes a great clone:
http://www.ronsound.com
Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: 02R96 on September 30, 2007, 05:41:17 pm
Check out this sample...

http://www.ronsound.com/sounds/hpc.mp3

The pedal is called "hairpie" This is the type of fuzz I was looking for. It's the sound of the guitar on American Woman!  

Laughing
Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: Podgorny on September 30, 2007, 11:23:22 pm
02R96 wrote on Sun, 30 September 2007 16:41

It's the sound of the guitar on American Woman!




http://www.garnetamps.com/herzog.htm



Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: Podgorny on September 30, 2007, 11:34:58 pm
Oh wait, were you talking about the original, or the Lenny Kravitz version?



http://www.line6.com/gearbox_plugin/tour.html?utm_source=Lin e6Index&utm_medium=Navigation&utm_campaign=P lugin+Hear+Mid

Rolling Eyes



Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: 02R96 on October 01, 2007, 12:51:52 pm
There is ONLY one version...

That would be The Guess Who!  Cool

Anyone else is just a cover band!!!  Laughing

Cool article on the Herzog. Too bad it was never mass produced, but I guess that's what gives Randy Bachman his signature sound.
Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: J.J. Blair on October 02, 2007, 03:12:34 pm
There's a a couple types of fuzz.  There's the Maestro Fuzz on "Satisfaction," which is a square wave.  You have the Univox Super Fuzz, which is an all together different texture.  And then you have the Big Muff, which is the fuzziest of the fuzzes.

BTW, didn't the Black Crowes use a big muff?  Oh yeah...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/95/BlackCrowesAmoricaalbumcover.jpg
Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: 02R96 on October 04, 2007, 10:41:44 pm
Well I ended up buying a Little Big Muff Pi. It’s a big difference from the Digitech Grunge box I was borrowing. I don’t know how to describe it; the lower three strings sound a bit more coarse, while the upper three seem fuzzier. Never the less, it’s a keeper. One box is replacing two; the grunge and a sustain pedal.

Now all I need is a good reverb…   Surprised

Next thread!
Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: RSettee on October 17, 2007, 06:51:17 pm
The Little Big Muff is pretty good.

I've got a few--my favorite all purpose go to one is my Ibanez FZ-7 Fuzz, those silver tone-lok ones. I modified some stuff in it, and the overall equalization seems perfect--good mids, but not honky--highs that aren't "bee in a jar" type, and the "damage" switch that it has goes from 10 percent, to 100 percent. It simulates a broken speaker/ dying battery, and on the 10 percent, it adds that tearing sound, that ripping, in the attack of the signal, leaving the sustain alone, which is pretty rare. Even with my ZVex Fuzz Factory, that tearing, ripping, is in the whole signal, meaning that it chops off the sustain, no matter what. Other pedals might have more low end or top end bite, but overall, this one can't be beat with the modifications.

The Boss Power Driver was never marketed as a fuzz, but it's a very high gain pedal with lots of lows, and it's in between a distortion and a fuzz, but using the neck pickup with the tone rolled back gives a very good fuzz sound. My only complaint is that there's only a mid and a bass knob (labelled "fat" and "muscle"), and no tone knob, and that it picks up RF signals. Other than that, great pedal! And rare, and will undoubtedly be more valuable in the years to come, as people discover that it creates some cool fuzz/ fuzzstortion sounds.

ZVex Fuzz Factory--very cool! But also very expensive. It gets really high end type fuzz, and is capable of really noisy, theremin-like sounds, and you can create some really damaged, compressed fuzz sounds, to some straight up, less extreme fuzzes. It has ALOT of gain, and on higher gain settings, it picks up RF frequencies. Bonus--it's extremely small for pedalboards, and it uses extremely low power consumption, so batteries don't die nearly as fast. Major drawback---it's pretty expensive for a "specialized" fuzz, as this will probably never be my main one, but a very cool "flavour" to go to.

Behringer Vintage Overdrive (with 12AX7 tube). Pretty close to some Neil Young and Crazy Horse sounds, they call this an overdrive, but it's more a fuzz, I think, and at extreme gain levels, it really starts to sound wild and wooly and unpredictable. The blue led you could see from ten miles away, too. The only downside is the hum/ noise, it's very noisy. And you can swap in a 12AT7 for more volume/ fullness, too, and it's incredibly cheap for a pedal with a 12AX7 in it.
Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: Tomas Danko on October 18, 2007, 06:00:04 pm
Yes, the Ibanez FZ-7 Fuzz. I say it's a dark horse. Very underrated. Great stuff, when you know how to use it and abuse it indeed. It can turn a sound into a package of Oreos crushed by the foot of a dinosaur.
Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: rob s on October 19, 2007, 01:26:51 am
i did a side by side comparison.
green russian vs old big muff.
when the green russians tone knob was dimed
it was about the equivalent of 1:30 2 O'clock on the old muff.
the original had the ability to get way brighter.
i like the old one better.
Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: rob s on October 19, 2007, 01:33:24 am
garnet amps that have the stinger section are basically a guitar amp w ith a built in herzog.
in fact BTO got its name from the garnet amp.
Big Time Operator was a 100w model with the stinger as used by randy bachman.
they date back to the mid 60's.
man, they are beasts.  
Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: Sarusan on October 22, 2007, 11:24:07 pm
Haven't tried it side by side with an original but the new Tone Machines do what I remember the old ones doing and mine has been getting a lot of use.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/95/BlackCrowesAmoricaalbumcover.jpg
Not a bad record but worst album cover ever.  

Ever.

Steven
Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: rob s on November 03, 2007, 01:28:39 am
i'm afraid blackfoot beat the crows for worst album cover.
they had a record called vertical smiles with a dozen tight bikini
shots.
real classy
Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: J.J. Blair on November 10, 2007, 02:20:48 am
You mean this?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Uoo3d1ERL._SS500_.jpg
Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: Mike P on November 10, 2007, 03:49:03 am
J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 09 November 2007 23:20

You mean this?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Uoo3d1ERL._SS500_.jpg


That is AWESOME.

Vertical Smiles.  I don't think there's a chance in hell that title would be allowed today.

Rock on, Ricky Medlocke.

Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: C.Cash on November 11, 2007, 09:52:57 am
I have an old green one, sounds great but eats batteries.
Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: rob s on November 12, 2007, 12:33:32 am
J.J. Blair wrote on Sat, 10 November 2007 01:20

You mean this?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Uoo3d1ERL._SS500_.jpg


ha ha thats it.
nice work!!!
Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: j.hall on November 12, 2007, 01:44:56 pm
HA, NICE!
Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: RSettee on November 24, 2007, 06:53:57 pm
rob s wrote on Fri, 19 October 2007 00:33

garnet amps that have the stinger section are basically a guitar amp w ith a built in herzog.
in fact BTO got its name from the garnet amp.
Big Time Operator was a 100w model with the stinger as used by randy bachman.
they date back to the mid 60's.
man, they are beasts.  


Garnet amps are great! They were built really well (asides from the speakers which were usually not the best), and eventually in time (some are realizing this now), they're becoming some of the holy grail. A Herzog is certainly becoming a holy grail of sorts (a pre-preamp....a fuzzbox in the guise of a head. Heavy to carry for what's essentially a fuzzbox, but a damned good one). Even a Sessionman or something like that will sting you for some big $$$ these days, if you see one of those for a decent price, pick it up, 'cause you'll likely never see one again, if and when it's not going for insane prices.

Gar Gillies passed away in December of last year...very low key, it wasn't really mentioned that much, which was sad, but he really knew alot about tube amps and I think took a hit to the pocketbook when he still made mostly tube amps in the transistor amp heyday in the 80's. He did make a few models of transistor amps, but his models were mostly tube.

My bandmate has a very, very early Garnet head from the 60's....I don't even think it was an actual model, just an early head. Gar, himself, offered him a grand for it (which my friend declined), someone else offered him 2000 bucks for it, and he wouldn't take it. I'm pretty sure that it's in the thousands of dollars range and is probably within an unknown holy grail....I think Gar said that there were only a few made. Meaning that most people don't even know that it exists....holy grail, indeed.
Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: MagnetoSound on November 25, 2007, 11:28:05 am
TheViking wrote on Sat, 29 September 2007 06:09

If you get a Big Muff, make sure it looks like this...

index.php/fa/6349/0/


This one, with the big round footswitch, is, I believe, by far the most rugged.

IIRC, the big footswitch button has a spring underneath which presses on a microswitch on the board. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.)

These microswitches cost only a few pence/cents to replace when they fail, which is no more (probably less) often than the Chinese made switches (or the Mexican ones, for that matter) used on many other pedals.

Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: Michael Petkau on December 28, 2007, 04:22:10 am
Podgorny wrote on Sun, 30 September 2007 22:23

02R96 wrote on Sun, 30 September 2007 16:41

It's the sound of the guitar on American Woman!




http://www.garnetamps.com/herzog.htm






His (now-vacant) shop is 4 blocks away from me.  His passing last year was sad news ... Gar had been the amp man in these parts for a long long time.
Title: Re: Muff Question
Post by: RSettee on January 02, 2008, 01:24:00 pm
pootkao wrote on Fri, 28 December 2007 03:22

Podgorny wrote on Sun, 30 September 2007 22:23

02R96 wrote on Sun, 30 September 2007 16:41

It's the sound of the guitar on American Woman!




http://www.garnetamps.com/herzog.htm






His (now-vacant) shop is 4 blocks away from me.  His passing last year was sad news ... Gar had been the amp man in these parts for a long long time.


Hey, a fellow 'Pegger! I talked to Gar about a month or two before he passed on. He said that he was getting out of the business and moving to Eriksdale, MB. I thought something sounded strange about that, because he had been doing it for so long. I tentatively spoke to him about maybe him making me a Guillotine--he only did them on special order--but obviously that wouldn't be possible now. RIP Gar.