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R/E/P => R/E/P Archives => j. hall => Topic started by: j.hall on August 18, 2007, 09:43:56 pm

Title: AKG 414-EB
Post by: j.hall on August 18, 2007, 09:43:56 pm
so, a few rooms around town have these mics.

they are the original 414's (at least that's what i've been told).  basically it's a solid state C-12.

i'm not a huge fan of 414's, but these mics are KILLER.

i just setup drums today on a record i'm mixing in a few weeks.

(this is my current working model it seems.  pay my day rate to get all the drum sounds and levels, send me home while they track themselves and bring it over to mix)

anyway.  i put these up as overheads.  AMAZING.  they have HUGE low end and a really great smooth top.

any one else get to enjoy these mics?
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: NoizeReduction on August 18, 2007, 10:55:41 pm
I don't know, I always though these 414s were competing with U87s, until I heard a composer tell me they have harsh highs or something.. and he owns a pair.... In the recording world you never know, I probably shouldn't trust him like that. People talk sh*t without knowing.
But it did affect my thoughts about the mic. I'd really love to try them out and do A/B comparison with some good neumanns.
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: J-Texas on August 18, 2007, 11:49:59 pm
I have a pair of the silver screened 414's and the gold 414's. The silvers are supposed to be "original". Man, all I know is they don't have a harshness to them at all and are great for a number of things... ESPECIALLY overheads.
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: Iain Graham on August 19, 2007, 10:56:30 am
Is that the old silver bodied ones? They were the C-12 capsule with a solid state body I think.

Those 414s rule. Great on a guitar amp too.

For me, 414s have always had this great bight around 3-5kish, but above that they can get a bit harsh, depending on the source. Not the smoothness all the way up you'd associate with  Neumann certainly, but those old silver ones have that smoothness while still keeping that bight.

I actually prefer the newest ones over the previous generation too. They're not quite as hard sounding. But those old silver ones are the best they've made, probably because of the C-12 capsule in them.
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: Hank Alrich on August 19, 2007, 11:32:56 am
Oh, yeah, the old silver 414-EB's are wonderful mics IME. I've used some that looked so beaten up they ought to be cremated, but they sounded like magic.
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: iCombs on August 19, 2007, 01:43:17 pm
Just FYI, there are two different 414 EB's...the regular EB and the EB P48. The Regular EB will run on any kind of phantom power from 12-48, while the P48 only uses 48 volt.  Also, the P48 414 EB's SHOULD have teflon-ringed CK12's.  The EB's have brass-ringed CK12's, which are the C12 capsule.  Last fall, I scored a pair of EB's with brass CK12s and a Shure SM-5 for a grand.  The bummer is that one of the 414's sounds like it's got some capacitor issues as it just makes a bunch of noise, but the other one is GORGEOUS.  It's what 414's SHOULD sound like.  I've really been enjoying it on vocals through a TAB/Funkenwerks V78.  It's airy, but from like 2 to 6k is just like creamy and dimensional and rich.

I'm all about them.
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: j.hall on August 19, 2007, 03:11:36 pm
Hank Alrich wrote on Sun, 19 August 2007 10:32

Oh, yeah, the old silver 414-EB's are wonderful mics IME. I've used some that looked so beaten up they ought to be cremated, but they sounded like magic.



yeah Hank, these look like they've been "weathered".  but they sound killer!

amazing overhead mics.

my biggest complaint about tracks i get is the overheads have no low end.  earthworks are great, and original neumann KM-84's are as well.

but these 414-EBs are just cool.  really smooth highs with a big round bottom.  

i don't track much, but with the increasing request for me to setup drums i might have to pick up a pair of these mics.
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: Iain Graham on August 19, 2007, 09:57:56 pm
j.hall wrote on Sun, 19 August 2007 14:11

 really smooth highs with a big round bottom.


That's why I like my R-121s as overheads. The low end is really solid, particularly the lower end of the snare, and the highs are super smooth.

If they're not bright enough, a little HF boost and they still sound way better than a lot of LDCs.
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: Fibes on August 20, 2007, 10:40:18 am
I like the old 414s fine but those new ones aren't worth it.

Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: ericswan on August 20, 2007, 01:39:10 pm
I agree the 414EBs are very useful.

If you find what looks like a 414 labeled C12A, it's teh suck...just send it to me and I'll dispose of it for you...
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: Podgorny on August 20, 2007, 01:46:38 pm
C12as do kinda suck.
I like em on toms though.
Sad, isn't it?
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 20, 2007, 02:26:27 pm
Not all silver 414-EBs are equal.  Some have handmade CK12 capsules, like in the C12 and Ela M-251, and some have the another capsule, confusingly also designated as a CK12.  The difference is whether they have a brass ring with screws, or or there there is a white teflon holder, that looks like all subsequent 414 capsules.  This is the capsule you don't want:

http://www.saturn-sound.com/images/original%20nylon%20ck12.jpg

I own four 414EBs and zero U87s for a reason.  They are wonderful mics, as far as FETs go.

Here's a great page about the history of the 414:

http://www.saturn-sound.com/Curio's/story%20of%20the%20akg%2 0c414.htm

The problem with C12As is the Nuvistor 7586 tube.  Klaus estimates that Nuvistors have a rejection rate of 9 in 10 for noise and microphonics.  They also have a ringing sound to them than makes them sonically much less desirable than the 6072 found in the C12.  I've heard some really nice C12As, but many of them are just not that happening, because of the quality of the tube.  
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: j.hall on August 20, 2007, 09:35:48 pm
thanks JJ, that's good to know should i choose to go "shopping"

Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: mcsnare on August 20, 2007, 09:43:16 pm
Try those on vocals sometime. They can be amazing.
Dave
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: j.hall on August 20, 2007, 09:50:35 pm
i only entertained using them in the first place based of your suggestions, so vocals next!

although, i've become addicted to the SM-7 on vocals.  and since using it a dozen times, i've got most of my local clients (with their own PT rigs) to buy them for their own uses.

Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 20, 2007, 11:42:12 pm
A CK12 capsule can do things that a SM7 can never touch.  There is an "air" to them that is indeed wonderful.  I've been using one of my 414EBs on a record that I'm currently doing for all my "ooh" and "aah" pads.  They glisten.
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: iCombs on August 22, 2007, 04:15:10 pm
J.J. Blair wrote on Mon, 20 August 2007 22:42

A CK12 capsule can do things that a SM7 can never touch.  There is an "air" to them that is indeed wonderful.  I've been using one of my 414EBs on a record that I'm currently doing for all my "ooh" and "aah" pads.  They glisten.


Strewth.

And they seem to take EQ oh-so-gracefully.
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: M Carter on August 22, 2007, 11:14:30 pm
414's of any type are my desert island mic.  I've never had them not work on something.
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: J-Texas on August 23, 2007, 08:47:52 am
Not to digress here, but I was thinking about (never tried it always use my 414's) using my sm81's in xy for OH. Ready... GO!
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: M Carter on August 23, 2007, 08:54:37 am
I've never really dug on sm81's, but I've only tried them on hi-hat... so..

Typical use for 414's for me is three of them in a triangle pointing up from the floor around the kit with a couple of far mics for overheads.
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: TheViking on August 23, 2007, 10:56:14 am
I went through an SM81 phase a while back.   Used them on overhead religiously for a few years.   Now I'm back to either ribbon mics or the 414's...   not even sure why.   I just think the sonic picture of the kit is always accurate with the 414's.   The low end is always right there, too.
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: j.hall on August 23, 2007, 05:45:40 pm
for me, i've never really liked 414's.  mcsnare recommended using them for a few specific applications and i dug it.

i saw these EB's and figured i'd give them a try.  talking to mcsnare during that session revealed the truth of the matter.

they really are different then a "new" 414, and they are GREAT!

i can't say i've been converted to a "fan".  but i'm much more open to using them.  especially the EB's

SM81's i've only used for acoustic guitar.  they did OK.

i haven't found many shure mics i'm thrilled about.
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: NelsonL on August 23, 2007, 06:12:34 pm
I really like our KSM-44's, great on OH's, rooms, bass cab. There was a 414 (not an EB) floating around for a while and I prefered the Shure on pretty much everything.

I'd like to try the KSM32 as well (fixed cardiod) but haven't had a chance.

Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: The Octopus on August 23, 2007, 07:19:33 pm
I did a record a couple years ago with a 414EB (silver) on snare through a telefunken v76 tube pre.

Jeremy
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: Rick Sutton on August 23, 2007, 07:23:31 pm
Here's my "old boys". One c412 and one c414E.
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: M Carter on August 23, 2007, 08:52:09 pm
People (especially our classical clients) seem to dig on the TLII models as well (although I haven't really heard much of a difference), the majority of my experience has been with the B-ULS models.  From all indications the new ones (the X series?) sound much different than the old ones, and those ridiculous LED's don't make much sense to me.
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: Podgorny on August 23, 2007, 09:47:17 pm
I had borrowed a matched pair of silver EBs with the CK12 capsules for a couple of years.
They were my first experience with a great mic, and I'd love to own a pair someday.

Great on overheads, vocals, guitar, toms.
Whatever.
A true desert island mic.
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 24, 2007, 12:51:56 am
Any time you are in LA and want to come use a pair ...

index.php/fa/6003/0/
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: M Carter on August 24, 2007, 07:46:26 am
Or in NYC .....

http://www.legacyrecordingstudios.com/equipment/mics.php

Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: Podgorny on August 24, 2007, 12:00:55 pm
J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 23 August 2007 23:51

Any time you are in LA and want to come use a pair ...

index.php/fa/6003/0/




'Tis a nice collection.

I like the idea of mounting the microphones to the wall of the mic locker.
But what about dust and other such factors?


Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 24, 2007, 08:23:47 pm
There's doors on the locker, that shut like a cupboard.  I have had no issues with dust.  I do keep my ribbons covered, though.
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: J-Texas on August 24, 2007, 10:20:04 pm
You're a good man, Charlie Brown!
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: J.J. Blair on August 24, 2007, 10:52:34 pm
If you want to hang them, you just angle the right sized dowels in the back of the locker.  The quick clips fit snugly over them.

Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: Podgorny on August 27, 2007, 01:13:05 am
It's a good idea.
Thus far, I've stuck with the "line up boxes" technique.


http://kylemann.com/misc/miclocker.jpg




Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: brett on September 28, 2007, 02:11:32 pm
korby and peluso both do mods and will add a cek12 capsule to the 414. Any idea how they sound. I have found 414eb's with the teflon capsule for $500.
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: eightyeightkeys on November 14, 2007, 07:12:25 pm
What about the TLII ? Is it still the ga-shiznit or not ?
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: Michael Petkau on December 11, 2007, 07:06:28 pm
We've got 2 EB's and 2 B-ULS at the studio.
The EB's have sounded quite brittle to me lately... contrary to what all the posts in this thread have mentioned.  I wonder if the capsules have been compromised or affected at all?  Humidity damage over time?  Any clues/suggestions?

I've been ignoring the EB's and just using the BULS, and feeling like I'm committing a crime.  Perhaps its time to do a serious comparison and see whats up with the EB's.
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: mattrussell on December 11, 2007, 09:01:49 pm
i haven't used the EB's everyone is raving about here, but my B-ULS pair sound great.  no complaints.

Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: j.hall on December 12, 2007, 12:07:47 pm
totally different.  if your path ever crosses a pair of EBs use them!!
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: rob s on January 02, 2008, 08:03:55 pm
they sound great on toms too.
really good.
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: seedyunderbelly.com on January 03, 2008, 10:09:07 pm
Be careful Many (most of the one i've seen)  414 eb's  like JJ  pointed out have:

NYLON/TEFLON?  CK12 capsules  (!!)

I have four NYLON/TEFLON?? and we use them on guitars toms etc. they are better than ok.    (ours sound a little better than our b-uls models) a utility mic.

THE BRASS RING CK12 414eb  version is one of the best mics I have ever heard,  you can fit 4 of them in your back pack and get on a plane---    they sound incredible--
WAY  better than the non brass  -   a baby c12 - easy to mount and travel

please excuse,  I see this is an old post but I think some may miss this important distinction

Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: j.hall on January 05, 2008, 03:09:08 pm
other then opening them up, how can you tell when surfing ebay for them?


Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: compasspnt on January 06, 2008, 01:05:49 am
j.hall wrote on Sat, 05 January 2008 15:09

other then opening them up, how can you tell when surfing ebay for them?



Hold a magnet near your computer screen.

Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: bushwick on January 06, 2008, 02:51:04 pm
Terry-

You might be getting a bill for a bunch of screwed up monitors. How goes the rebuild?
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: mr jason on January 06, 2008, 03:24:18 pm
 Laughing

That's the first post today that's made me laugh out loud. I knew I could rely on you Terry!
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: compasspnt on January 06, 2008, 04:27:00 pm
bushwick wrote on Sun, 06 January 2008 14:51

How goes the rebuild?



Hey!

I send the dreaded VR off <<to one of the industry's most august experts>> for the complete rebuild this next week.

Once again, if he says OK, I will post about what is being done, and why, and how the microphone changes.

Best regards.
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: rob s on January 06, 2008, 11:28:10 pm
john musgrve does some amazing upgrades to the V series.
the center section gets a makeover and he has designed his own multi layered motherboards to replace the old ones.
i've used them at conway and they definitely are hugely improved over the stock board.
Title: Re: AKG 414-EB
Post by: seedyunderbelly.com on January 07, 2008, 04:11:56 am
Hi John,


414eb nylon/414eb brass ring

"other then opening them up, how can you tell when surfing ebay for them?"


Sometimes you can tell the difference if there is a good photo of the capsule through the grill.

You can see the white nylon ring,  or the brass surface with the little screws going around.  

I have been able to tell,  sometimes not.  

Careful with this --as some other capsules have the screws also  -you can spot some  pelusos as they are bigger in diameter..(I was temporarily had on this once myself)

thanks j