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R/E/P => R/E/P Archives => j. hall => Topic started by: j.hall on August 18, 2007, 11:10:42 am

Title: IMP14 discussion
Post by: j.hall on August 18, 2007, 11:10:42 am
it's up on the server.

this one will be different only by deadline.

normally i pull the tune down and test the rar before letting anyone at it.

i'm not doing that this time as people have requested to start NOW, and i'm happy to oblige.

the deadline is one week from  Monday.

that means mixes are do on August 27th.

sample rate is 44.1
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: ATOR on August 18, 2007, 12:31:28 pm
These are great tracks and I'm ready to sink my teeth in this one.

I do wonder why the leadvocaltrack is combined with (sometimes out of tune) doubles. Is it possible to get the leadvocal and doubles  alone on a separate tracks?
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: iCombs on August 18, 2007, 01:00:52 pm
If you're talking about the chorus vox, no.  That's stacks of 3 guys around an omni mic.  If you're talking about the rest of the vox, no, because we cut vocals for this track with both guys singing in the same room and there's some bleed.

You damn near gave me a heart attack!  I thought I was going to have to go in and re-consolidate some things!
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: ATOR on August 18, 2007, 04:33:31 pm
iCombs wrote on Sat, 18 August 2007 19:00

If you're talking about the chorus vox, no.  That's stacks of 3 guys around an omni mic.  If you're talking about the rest of the vox, no, because we cut vocals for this track with both guys singing in the same room and there's some bleed.

You damn near gave me a heart attack!  I thought I was going to have to go in and re-consolidate some things!


No sweat, I thought (hoped) you might have accidentally bounced some tracks together. Separate vocals would give more room to work. But hey, no more complaining here, it all sounds great!
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: Brian Lloyd on August 18, 2007, 06:38:06 pm
...so i dont know who this band is...but within the first 28 seconds of the track...with just all the faders at 0...i had my fist pumping in the air! this is truly going to be a pleasure to mix. it sounds like an 80's ballad band (insert band here) and a modern rock band (insert band here) had a love child...i love it! the hooks great. and that kick..WTF is that! when i first heard it i felt like someone was kicking my heart through my skull..it was GREAT. i can say im not a huge fan of the included samples...never was a fan of them. well now were off to the mix....this is by far my favorite imp yet...GO J!
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: ShakesTheClown on August 18, 2007, 08:51:56 pm
Dammit... I didn't get to play with the last one because I was building a new room... and now I can't even hear this one cause I'm trying to move in.

I want to mix some fist pumping music!!
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: j.hall on August 18, 2007, 09:51:13 pm
Brian Lloyd wrote on Sat, 18 August 2007 17:38

GO J!



thank iCombs, he offered up the track and i wanted something more straight ahead.  call it good timing.

Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: J-Texas on August 18, 2007, 11:36:54 pm
Dudes. I'm finished. I'm stoked. This is JUST what the doctor ordered for me. What a killer track. I'm not really a fan of this type of music (my 13 year old said "Fall Out Boy"). That's kinda what I thought at first. It's not like that at all. I love it. I hate the samples man. Sorry. I did use them to add some click on the kick and some hair on the snare but that's it. I tried very hard to use only the OH. SERIOUSLY. When I couldn't do that I tried to make the other sounds compliment that. ICombs man... what a great job you did on this stuff. There were some vocal things (ie the harsh sounding gang vocal at the end) blah, blah, blah. It rocks man. Kudos.

In the wise words of J. Hall... my mix ROOOOOCCKKKS. You nerds better bring it.  Very Happy

Jason
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: Devin Knutson on August 19, 2007, 01:58:05 am
I am so stoked that you posted this today, so I could actually participate in this one.  I've just been hella busy lately, and had to pass on 13, but I do have some time this weekend.  Had you waited till Monday, I probably would have had to skip this one too.

Yeah, good track!  It's not my personal bag, but I'm really quite enjoying it, although at the moment I'm having a hell of a time with the drums.  I think I'm going to have to rip down what I've done so far and start over.  My first instinct just isn't working.

Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: j.hall on August 19, 2007, 03:34:25 pm
Devin Knutson wrote on Sun, 19 August 2007 00:58

My first instinct just isn't working.




don't waste a single second of time on something you don't think will work.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: Masks! on August 19, 2007, 07:55:02 pm
am I losing my mind? can someone please direct me to where I download the IMP files? I think I'm on the right page but all I see are files that peeps have uploaded of their mixes...I must be in the wrong place...thanks
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: Masks! on August 19, 2007, 08:02:41 pm
never mind I'm a jerk...I see 'em.

Greetings everyone BTW...what a great idea!!!
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: Iain Graham on August 19, 2007, 10:18:30 pm
Bollocks. My speakers/mBox/etc still aren't here and the next one's come around.

At least I know they're in Vancouver know and not at the bottom of some ocean somewehere......

Next time I move 1/4 way round the World, I'm taking all my studio stuff with me.

This one sounds even more fun as well......
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: osumosan on August 20, 2007, 12:11:48 am
Thanks for posting these over the weekend.

Making some nice progress!
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: Greg Dixon on August 20, 2007, 03:42:27 am
It doesn't look like I can do this one. I'm booked solid trying to finish two albums for one client. The first day I can do it is next Tuesday.....
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: chrisj on August 20, 2007, 03:21:47 pm
J, before I get started, do you have any specifics on what my rules are this time?

Yes I realize I could just do whatever I liked but I use these challenges to learn from.

Is it gear-centric like 'use only Logic EQ and comps' or is it more like 'use whatever, but quit getting such heavily processed tones- this time everything has to sound natural, not freaked-out, melting down, and on fire'?

-chris
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: iCombs on August 20, 2007, 03:48:01 pm
DAMMIT!  I spoke too soon...I DID accidentally bounce two vocal parts together in one of the Adam Vox tracks.  I was WONDERING why that one part was jumping out at me in the mix...I had 2 of them!  Anyways...oops...sorry 'bout that!
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: ATOR on August 20, 2007, 04:53:04 pm

Ian could you put the two Adam tracks in an IMP14 add-on package for us to download? I was planning to go wild on the vocal production with this IMP and I'd really appreciate having the lead in more separate tracks.

Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: j.hall on August 20, 2007, 09:18:02 pm
chrisj wrote on Mon, 20 August 2007 14:21

J, before I get started, do you have any specifics on what my rules are this time?

Yes I realize I could just do whatever I liked but I use these challenges to learn from.

Is it gear-centric like 'use only Logic EQ and comps' or is it more like 'use whatever, but quit getting such heavily processed tones- this time everything has to sound natural, not freaked-out, melting down, and on fire'?

-chris


i only have one additional rule for you personally.  use the logic EQ and comp.  verbs and other FX are up to you, but i want you to try and simplify your workflow.

Ian, pack up that lead vocal and make sure it's time aligned and post it up quickly.

for those who can't DL the updated tracks don't worry, i think it will only be a minor difference.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: CHANCE on August 21, 2007, 01:30:09 pm
Bummer! Buried in work! I'll probably slow down around November. Maybe imp 17 or 18.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: ScotcH on August 21, 2007, 02:15:39 pm
CHANCE wrote on Tue, 21 August 2007 13:30

Bummer! Buried in work! I'll probably slow down around November. Maybe imp 17 or 18.


Yeah ... real bummer  Rolling Eyes



Very Happy
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: iCombs on August 21, 2007, 02:39:18 pm
Alrighty, all...I'm posting the fixes for Adam's vocals as a rar on the PSW site...it's not QUITE done uploading right at this second, but should be posted and such by 2pm CDT.

Again...apologies for sloppy bounces!  Good thing this was a relatively easy fix.

I'm really excited that y'all are excited about this track...I'll answer all your questions once the submissions are in...I really don't want to give stuff away, but I'll more than happily answer all the questions posted once everyone has put up their submission.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: audio~geek on August 22, 2007, 12:01:16 am
Just organizing the session, I noticed something:
The Adam 3 file has some funky digital noise at the end of it.
Any one else find this?
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: J-Texas on August 22, 2007, 12:17:23 am
Yes. Used it as the background and skated right over it. Sounds great.

OOPS. Spoke too soon. I thought you meant the dirty sound on the overlay vocals at the end. A little singe-y, but got covered up nicely.

Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: briefcasemanx on August 22, 2007, 07:35:10 am
The more I hear it the more I dislike this song, so I don't know how good my mix will be.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: J-Texas on August 22, 2007, 08:40:12 am
briefcasemanx wrote on Wed, 22 August 2007 06:35

The more I hear it the more I dislike this song, so I don't know how good my mix will be.


Man, you won't like every project that you do, but it should ALWAYS be the best you can do. (look at that last one... it had a sound only a momma could love).

ps. Are there any "I [heart] SHITCOPTER" t shirts out there? I wouldn't wear it "out" or anything. I'm a HUGE fan!   Very Happy

I really did like that song!
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: M Carter on August 22, 2007, 09:00:31 am
HAHA Jason -

They never quite made it to the merch point.  It's been just about impossible to get the guys to do another record since they're both just too busy.  We're going in this weekend to cut basics for Ryan's band The Human Problem.

Icombs -

Thanks for the track, it's a relatively easy mix, and all the sounds fit together nicely.  Not my usual cup of ramen, but guiltily fun to work on.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: iCombs on August 22, 2007, 10:34:29 am
Audio~Geek wrote on Tue, 21 August 2007 23:01

Just organizing the session, I noticed something:
The Adam 3 file has some funky digital noise at the end of it.
Any one else find this?


Yeah...it's some sort of artifact we ran into when we used a little auto-tune.  There's also a little glitch in Adam 1 in the second verse or so.  I don't rightly know what the deal with that stuff was, but it's easy enough to edit around it.


Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: briefcasemanx on August 22, 2007, 11:04:34 am
i liked shitcopter. i don't really like this.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: Tom C on August 26, 2007, 05:50:41 am
Shit, I planned to mix IMP14 today but I have to leave town early
today for a business trip to Munich, so I won't make it  Crying or Very Sad

Good thing is you guys have one mix less to listen to. Maybe I'll
find some time next weekend to write some comments.
Have fun.

Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: j.hall on August 26, 2007, 04:43:29 pm
it's not looking good for me either.

i've got a rough blend up, but i just can't buy time to finish it.

sadly, i think i'll miss this one.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: Greg Dixon on August 26, 2007, 06:21:41 pm
Well it's good that we're all so busy. I managed to have a quick listen to it, but can't find time to mix it, unless I stay up all night after a long day of mixing, which I won't be doing.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: j.hall on August 26, 2007, 09:47:52 pm
i think as the mod, i need to attempt to pull this off.

i'll submit something, even if it isn't finished.

Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: M Carter on August 26, 2007, 11:52:48 pm
I'm in the same boat - just started basics for a new project this week, I think I've got something most of the way there I can make happen for tomorrow though.

Matt
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: chrisj on August 27, 2007, 12:01:31 am
Me too- totally lastminute, but on the bright side, this tune did call for really widerange sound, not all chunky midrange Wink

I did entirely stock Logic plugs, mostly channel EQ. I did try some crazy things but the workflow was extremely simple- not even any busses or reverb- only hangup was expanding Logic out to 32 tracks to deal with the hilarious track count Smile

For a change I think I got respectable drum sounds. Not all point this time. This was partly through the simplification but not entirely- but thanks J, I thought I'd probably learn something and I did.

We upload Monday, right? It just became Monday where I'm standing Wink
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: mcsnare on August 27, 2007, 12:28:05 am
I'm uploaded. I just did my normal thang, nothing fancy. I did do a fair amount of editing for tightness on one of the guitar tracks. The guy sounded like he had waaay too much coffee or possibly something stronger.... I finished mine and was out of town when the new vocal files came about. I just went with what I had.
Dave
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: maxim on August 27, 2007, 12:48:31 am
it sounds great as usual, dave!

it's probably still a good idea to put a link to the file in the official thread though, 'coz people might miss out on hearing how it should be done...
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: Soul_Fire on August 27, 2007, 02:37:55 am
Hi Everyone,

Been lurking around here for a while now and decided it was time I got more involved!

I thought having a go at an IMP would be a good way to start. Really enjoyed working on the track!

Cheers,

Stephen.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: southboundloco on August 27, 2007, 08:53:13 am
hehe somebody already put up their own 'submissions' thread
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: j.hall on August 27, 2007, 09:04:07 am
southboundloco wrote on Mon, 27 August 2007 07:53

hehe somebody already put up their own 'submissions' thread


no big deal.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: J-Texas on August 27, 2007, 03:29:43 pm
maxim wrote on Sun, 26 August 2007 23:48

it sounds great as usual, dave! ... 'coz people might miss out on hearing how it should be done...


You Kiss-ass!  Laughing
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: iCombs on August 27, 2007, 07:44:51 pm
Alright, gents!  I’ll preface my commentary by first answering some of the questions that came up during the mix week. The band is actually my band, 3 Pill Morning.  The song is a song that’s not going to be on our album (for which this was actually a self-produced demo/pre-production track) called, if you hadn’t already guessed by the chorus, “Can’t Wait.”  If anyone has any specific questions regarding tracking or anything else, I’ll happily answer them.

That all said...let’s get on to the reviews!!

J Hall - I like where the drums fit in your mix, but all the delay is killing me.  I know you’ve submitted a somewhat unfinished mix, so I can understand some of that, but it’s really distracting in the verses, where the vocal rhythms are tighter.

mcsnare - I’m really impressed.  The definition you have going on is killer, esp, in the guitars.  Did you cut out some of the doubles?  I know you moved the arpeggiated 3rd guitar to the left in the chorus, and I didn’t hear the goony surf “digga digga digga” in the second pre-chorus, but I’m really interested in how you edited the guitar tracks a little more specifically.  Also...drum wise...those samples are niiice.  In a lot of ways, they remind me of the drums on the first Audioslave album...they’re really up front and defined...they’re not like nu-metal punchy, but more like an older-school kinda flat but crankin sort of sound...I don’t know how quite to describe it, but I like it.

HLabb - That is one SERIOUSLY fat sounding snare.  I don’t know if you beefed it up with a sample (other than the triggered snare I included) or not, but to get that sort of thump out of a 5x13 vented acrylic snare is pretty sweet.  It feels like the kick and snare kinda chew on each other in terms of compression.  I like the edit in the second verse.  Some of the vocal harmonies can come up a little bit.  The izotope vinyl on the piano is a cool touch.  WOAH!  Interesting re-use of the “choral” stuff.  That’s a pretty dense harmony for a rock track.  Nice work overall...everything feels a little crunchy, and other than the pumping between the snare and kick, I like the mix in general.

SoulFire - Howdy, midrange!  Those guitars sound a bit like we used practice amps intstead of 4x12’s.  The drum break into the first chorus is a cool idea, but it feels like it’s a little “dropped in” on everything.  There seems to be a lot of midrange content missing from the vocals that makes intelligibility difficult.  The drums sound like they could all use a bit more snap in the top end.

J-Texas - Wow...sparse right off the top.  And crunchy.  You didn’t like jeff’s mic for his vocals in the verse?  Interesting take...man...it’s WAY lo-fi compared to what I’ve heard so far.  Not sure that I’m digging that particular aspect, but I do like the balances and the separation...everything feels really organic and garage, which is just not something I usually associate with this band.  But that’s cool...I definitely think there’s some room for garage in the sound...the breakdown vocals are interesting, as I know I leaned really heavily on the group vocals, and there’s scarcely any in yours...what’s funny is the arrangement you laid out is basically the arrangement we used live.  Are you stalking us?

macbraddy - interesting re-cut on the intro...I liked the vocal treatment on the first line...after that it felt a bit played out.  The drums punch well...but that low-fi vocal feels really distracting when paired against this big poppy backing track.  That just kills the mix for me, man.  The rest of the mix feels solid, but that just tips the balances in an awkward way.  I like the flange at the end of the second chorus.  That’s a cool touch.  But really...the vocals don’t feel like they sit with the rest of the track for the WHOLE track.


This is what I got for now...I have to run out before guitarget closes and pick up a power conditioner and rack drawer for my new bass rig...I'll pick up some more tonight and some more tomorrow and see where we end up!
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: J-Texas on August 27, 2007, 09:06:04 pm
iCombs wrote on Mon, 27 August 2007 18:44

J-Texas - Wow...sparse right off the top.  And crunchy.  You didn’t like jeff’s mic for his vocals in the verse?  Interesting take...man...it’s WAY lo-fi compared to what I’ve heard so far.  Not sure that I’m digging that particular aspect, but I do like the balances and the separation...everything feels really organic and garage, which is just not something I usually associate with this band.  But that’s cool...I definitely think there’s some room for garage in the sound...the breakdown vocals are interesting, as I know I leaned really heavily on the group vocals, and there’s scarcely any in yours...what’s funny is the arrangement you laid out is basically the arrangement we used live.  Are you stalking us?


Ian, let me pucker up and do some ass smoochin'... I love the drums man. I seriously only wanted to use the OH. I'm not sure what you mean about Jeff's mic. You guys sounded very similar and I wanted it to be distinct, almost like question and answer. The gang vocal had some bleed so I went with it and gave it a "hollow" sound, but on his track I compressed the thing hard and saturated it. It really felt garage to me, you know? I ALWAYS had mixed "safe" and went for fidelity in the time prior to IMP. I have been pushing myself in a different direction to test my limitations. You know how J. talks about like a space in time, or whatever hookah guru shit he blows  Very Happy . Well, I listened. That was the "space" for me... a club or garage or show. That's why I crushed the vox. I wanted it to sound like I was in the jam room. Pure rock. As far as the breakdown vox, man, it wasn't Kumbaya for me. I didn't trust the sing along, everybody in the stadium holds up the lighter and love is in the air... or is it Nag Champa, anyway... less was more there for me. I did use the extra set of vox, but only the midrange. Thank you very much for the critique.  
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: macbraddy on August 27, 2007, 09:14:19 pm
iCombs wrote on Mon, 27 August 2007 18:44


macbraddy - interesting re-cut on the intro...I liked the vocal treatment on the first line...after that it felt a bit played out...


That's kinda how I expected those vox to go over... Great on the first line -- played out on the rest of it. Cuz -- I guess that's how it felt for me as well. To be honest -- I just didn't know what to do with 'em after that.

But I guess that's why we (or I) do these things -- To hear how other people might treat the same material. I'll go through and take some leads from some of the other mixes -- which at first listen seem to be a nice lot!
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: j.hall on August 27, 2007, 10:19:11 pm
iCombs wrote on Mon, 27 August 2007 18:44



J Hall - I like where the drums fit in your mix, but all the delay is killing me.  I know you?ve submitted a somewhat unfinished mix, so I can understand some of that, but it?s really distracting in the verses, where the vocal rhythms are tighter.




my mix has NO automation.  the vocal effects were roughed in for the choruses and never delt with in the verses.

excuses, excuses..........

this is probably a really good view into what a "framed out" mix of mine sounds like.  i wouldn't even submit that as a rough mix.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: M Carter on August 28, 2007, 12:04:34 am
So far there's a lot of really good mixes of the song.  iCombs has a mix that I dig, and mcsnares is a fun listen as well.  

The only thing I really wanted more of out of the drums was a more spankish kind of a snare... it was tough to make those sounds get big and take up space when they were the only things going on .  The samples all got ditched in the breaks, as did a couple of sections of the song.  This is admittedly the first 'radio rock' song I think I've ever taken part in... had a good time but couldn't see myself working on this kind of thing often.

I'll try and actually do some reviews this time..

Matt
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: briefcasemanx on August 28, 2007, 01:12:24 am
I just threw mine up.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: maxim on August 28, 2007, 01:49:47 am
how unsavoury...
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: briefcasemanx on August 28, 2007, 03:52:58 am
I love your kick drum mcsnare. What did you do there?
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: darkhorseporter on August 28, 2007, 09:47:22 am
I figured because I never did comments on the last IMP, that I should do comments for this one right away.

Upon hearing the others, i realized my mix is too bright (self-mastering = bad idea), the drums could rock more, and I should have done some more aggressive editing.

That said, I liked most of the mixes a lot.  

Also, its late so I apologize in advance if there are typos, bad grammar, or a lack total lack of continuity.



Now without further ado, in order of appearance in the submission thread, my 2 cents!



audio geek - darkish mix.  nice intro solo. the guitars are a touch too beefy, but sound killer otherwise.  the vocals are too dry, too close.  the kick is thumping nicely though.  the mix is cluttered in the middle.  pan those guitars and make some room for the drums and bass to speak.  ok - I don't like the samples, and I miss the vocals you cut/buried.   I really like the bridge.  man, the mix almost rocks hard.  a little work, and this one could bring it.


j hall - the guitars are too beefy for me.  nice choice for vocals in the first pre-chorus.  choices for compression, verb, etc.. are excellent, but there is some refining I'd like to hear.  hmm.  I wish I had done more work on the arrangement.  I like the piano without the bass on the bridge and the little harmonic changes.  oh, and I chickened out of cutting the last little vocal clip at the very last minute.  I like it way better your way.  hmm.  not a bad mix, but not quite right.


jason thompson - I like the edited intro.  I wish I had done the same to my mix.  The  instruments sound good.  The vocals need to sit better. actually, while I like the sounds and levels of the instruments, they aren't playing nice together.  bus compression might help.  hmm.  I think the bass is way too loud in the bridge.  wheres the piano?  I'd say you're 3/4 there.


hlabb - i like this mix a lot.  the verb/delay on the vocals is a touch long, and the mix overall feels a tad "closed-in."  I'm not sold on the bridge, though.  I like me some nice piano, and I didn't hear any Sad   I forgive you, cause the outro chorus is nice and strong.  aww...you should have edited the ending better.  really, nice mix in general.


soul fire - bass and kick sit well together, but I'm getting killed by the guitars. I like loud guitars, and they sound *great*, but they are pulling energy from the vocals.  Nice work with the samples, though I don't personally care for the "fold to mono/am radio" drum break.  vocals it well and sound good.  work that bridge, man!  drums are crushing the vibe before the guitars come back in.  really, this is my favorite mix so far, aside from the couple level issues i mentioned.


macbraddy - aww.  man this mix was ripping my head off until the vocals came in.  for a moment i was ok with them, but when they didn't change when the full band came in I was very disappointed.  the intro was great.  the instruments sound great (though heavy on the right side).  make h=those vocals sound great!  another weak piano mix.  they put it there for a reason, I'm sure, and while the sound was interesting for 1/2 second, it didn't help the song.  this mix might have been my favorite except for these few things.


devin k - drums and vocals sound nice - I like your choice of verb for the vox.  I'd like to hear more guitars.  they don't sound as if they are panned much, but anyways, more guitar.  oh, i LOVE the syncopated drum break.  I hate the sampled drum sounds, but I like the edit.  man, as the song comes to a close I only wish the guitars matched the vocals in gusto.  you have the best ending I've heard so far.  so yeah, pretty good mix.


singsing - bright mix.  GREAT use of sounds on the lead vocals.  the background vocals need a bit of work, and the lead vox could use a *bit* more distance.  work that bridge, man.  make some dynamics - give the sing someplace to go.  maybe lower the bass and vox until the guitars come in?   tame that top end a bit, and this is it.  NICE SHIT!  seriously the best ending.  actually, my favorite mix of the whole bunch.  nicely done.


baddo - nice sounds overall - kick is a tad "clicky" for me.  the bass is also clicky.  guitars rock.  I honestly don't care much for the chorusy effects on the quiet parts, and I wish the vocals spoke more to me in this mix even though they sound good.  nice mix, though.


southboundloco - nice mix, but I'm not sure i like the snare sound.  its too hollow sounding.  I tried the same panning as you in the very beginning, but I think the panned question-answer thing is strange sounding.  if the vocals were panned differently throughout I'd really like this mix.  oh goodness, those samples are ruining the vibe.  too full.  they stand out like green hair. in congress.  the delay in the snare in the bridge is neat, but not good.  doesn't help the song.  hmm. every once in a while there is a bass hit that is killer, but then it goes away.  I wonder if it is over-aggressive compression.  overall very good mix, though.


adam miller - wow.  nice loud guitars.  maybe too loud?  nah.  nice mix.  the kick and bass aren't always playing well together, but this is a nit-pick.  while I dig the way all the instruments sit, I don't find myself singing along and moving with the song like I should.  hmm.  oh, i did not like the edits at 1:41 and in the bridge.  might be just personal preference, but I think the song works better as it was.  the little variations make it more listenable.  aww, kill the delay on that last vocal line.  sounds yucky exposed.


chrisj - the guitars sound good, and are work volume-wise with the rest of the mix, but I'm not digging the bass, drum, and vocal sounds.  more kick, more low end on the bass.  the snare sounds boxy.  I might be wrong, but this mix sounds to me like each instrument was mixed sole, then added to the mix, cause nothing is sitting quite right. another sad piano.


mcsnare - yeah. rock.  this mix is super clean.  snare is a tad tight sounding to me, and I'd like to hear more, uh, lift during the chorus.  it kinda sags.  are the drums sampled? the outro chorus could use some massaging level-wise.  I love the piano sound for the bridge, by the way. ouch those toms are too much!  This is the cleanest mix so far, but not the most compelling.  I can't quite put my finger on why, but I think it might be the guitars too loud.  I'm guessing, actually.  I'm curious to see what the others say.


ator - rockin.  the lead vocals are too close for me.  guitars are hot, but sound good.  overall a good mix, but I don't feel like the whole mix sits in a space -- the snare is in a room, but the vocals bass and guitars are pressed up to the speakers.  gutsy move with with the piano, but I think it works.  do I want more kick?  I think a tad.   a decent mix, but lacks the sheen I'd hope to see on this style of song.


osumosan - WOW.  holy compression!  while the mix is rocking, the drum pumping is making me seasick.  hmm, aside from the pump and the hot cymbals, I really like this mix.  I wish the bridge were more...sensitive.  the drums are killing the piano.  overall, I dig this mix.


icombs - kick is thumping! nice!  solo is too verbed.  its distracting.  the bass is not speaking enough.  the vox sound good, but could be hotter in the mix.  This mix is fairly finished sounding, but not balanced quite right.  guitars are a touch loud and have too much low end - they're clouding up the mix.  ok.  overall, i like this mix, but would work a few things differently.  ps. the "ear candy" is well done in this mix.


boedoconstrictor - the snare is loud, and the delay on the vocals is strange, but otherwise ROCK ON.  The vocals on the chorus are too loud.  the background vocals especially.  man, the delay on the vocals is really unpleasant when exposed.  sorry, I should not rip into the same choice twice, but uhg.  overall, excellent mix.  There are a couple things I'd work on , but this mix is 90% there to me.


maxim - dark mix.  open up those sounds man.  The vocals sound ok, but could use some space.  why not hard pan those guitars?  Might clean room in the middle of the mix.  Nice natural piano sound.  The effects on the bridge are nice, but undermined by the imbalance in the mix.  I hear tons of vox, and everything else is missing.  oh, except the toms, which rock harder than everything else.


blloyd - this is a really hot vocal mix.  drums are up there, but the kick is weak.  snare could have more beef.  I'd like to hear the guitars hard panned, and turned up.  turn up the bass too!  the vocals all sound thin and close.  pan them, verb/delay them more.  ok, the bridge is closer, to right, but not there.  piano sounds good.  if the guitars and bass were fixed, the vocals might be fine.


ryst - like the guitars and vocals, but the drums and bass need to get their say as well.  also, I hear some eq issues.  there is something weird in the mids i can't put my finger on.  the guitars need a *little* more meat.  heres a little thing - the right side is hotter, and its distracting.  the bridge is ok, but the piano delay doesn't quite work.  neither does mine.  a little balancing and this mix would rock much more.  not bad overall, though.


fantomas - dark mix.  guitars are too beefy. solo is too far away.   i like the kick.  snare could pop more, but not like in the bridge.  the verb is...much.  bass sounds great.  gimme more vox, but with more space - like in the chorus!  I like all the background vocals, and miss them where you cut them though. don't care for the distorted bass in the bridge, and miss the piano as a significant contributor.  this is the Frankenstein mix --a mass of very usable parts but sewn together roughly.  not too bad, but needs work still.


teleric - guitars, bass and drums sit very well together.  the solo is too loud, and the vocals are too close in the verse.  the chorus sounds much better, though.  there is some distortion in the breaks that I don't like at all.  hmm.  I dint like the bridge at all.  the cool sounds are nice, but should be closer to in time.  I'm not sure what is different about the ending that I don't like as much as the rest of the mix.    This mix is real close to exactly what I'd like to hear, but I liked it better at the beginning than at the end.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: osumosan on August 28, 2007, 01:36:05 pm
Just a general comment about the IMP's:

When I hear choices in other people's mixes, my first reaction is to not like them only because they're different. (I've only had time to listen quickly through the ones that were posted when I put mine up.) But after listening and making a few mental notes, I listened to mine and whoa! I heard so many things that my ears just passed by when I was working on the mix. I think listening to other perspectives on the song really opened my ears a lot and I think if I revisit my mix, it'll get a whole lot better. So thanks everyone.

darkhorseporter: I have to go back and listen for the pumping. I know the mix is squashed, but I like mixing through a buss compressor, it helps get the levels right, and I used a compressor to do a quick and dirty balance the vocal tracks. Please listen to it loud (remember that advice on your LPs back in the day?)

Thanks. I hope to make some comments about the mixes in coming days.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: M Carter on August 28, 2007, 02:28:34 pm
The thing I noticed the most about the mixes was peoples' tendency to add a lot of upper mids to the guitars.  At times it helped a little, but most often it put the guitars in a separate space from the drums and made the whole thing sound smaller.  I'll get more specific later.  So far my favorite mixes are mcsnares and iCombs'.  I actually like mine this time around which is a new thing for me...

Matt
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: ryst on August 28, 2007, 03:44:00 pm
I just wanted everyone to know who will be listening to my mix, I only worked on it for 1 whole hour.  No more.  I was so busy but I wanted to put something up.  Anyway, time to listen to everyone's mixes.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: J-Texas on August 28, 2007, 04:20:03 pm
Audio Geek - Did the front get chopped off man? Sounds like the drums are in the other room (except the snare). Dirty vox. Not really a good dirty for me. I like the backup panning thing, but the backup is not up loud enough. Not a great balance. The distorted backing vox are WAY to low! That would have sounded great out front. Big floating bottom end that I like. I also like the editing on the segue parts. Just mix needs some adjustments.

J. - Cool drums as usual. Thick. I really hate the delay man. You know, one thing I've noticed is that your snares always sound dark. Your style? This is obviously a starting point for you, so need to hammer it. I like the Queen sounding breakdown though.

J-Texas - Sure is midrange-y, but seems to work when everything comes in. I would have like a little more beef in the snare and kick. I would turn this up if I heard it on the radio. Better on the low end, but still not there dude. I like the vocal balance.

H.Labb - This has a hair or metal in it (pun intended)  Very Happy OH are a tiny bit fatiguing to me. I like the breakdown editing. Backup vox could come up a tad. The single and double vox could use a little dB as well. The stacks are great. I like the Faith No More segue. GREAT buildup to finish it off.  

Soul Fire - Holy Crap! Now that's some mids! This kind of sounds like a couple of mics setup in the back of a show at a club. There needs to be some taming here. The vocal is in and out. Are you a guitar player? I'm one. I like guitars to kick ass, but I had to learn to control it in the mix. It's like the guy that plays in the little club with a full stack and you don't know why.

macbraddy - More mids. I like the editing. Those vocals are cool, but they need to be out front. Did you use alot of the underneath snare mic? Lots of hi hat. I don't know why this kind of midrange really bothers me. Mine was midrange-y but in a different way. I need to dissect that later. I like the segue. A little fatiguing man.

DevinK - Man I like it so far. The kick is a little muddy. I know it's there... but where exactly? I'm not sure the guitars have enough balls or just volume for the rest of the mix. WHOA. Except for the Dick Dale rundown there. Cool editing in the segues. I'm still not a fan of the delay on the vocals. Here come the monks. Oh shit! They're angry... run!

Sing Sing - Vocals. Cool. Bring up the backing voc man! Snare needs work dude. Whoa. Background vocals are lost. This started out like mine... really midrange-y... and then it works. Need more drums period (except the cymbals... there's enough there for two songs). BACKGROUND VOX MAN. I'm straining and I don't want to. I like the eqs on the piano and bass in the intro. Interesting heavy compression/eq'd vox. Like the buildup. Like the edit at the end dude.

Baddo - I like this. WOW. That tripped me out. Nice snare. I think the vocals could come up a little. OK. That tripped me out too. Hats are harsh man. Nice buildup. Just a few tweaks for me.

Southbound - Metal mania. On the fence on the panning situation. Wow. Godzilla just stepped on the scene! Weak snare man IMO. Compression. compression. compression. Whoa. There that damn Godzilla again. Can somebody get him out of the studio? Nice toms. Interesting bridge. I would have cleaned up the fade at the end, unless that's what you were going for.

Adam Miller - Solo is kind of buried. I like this. Nice vox. Just like mine, I wish our snares were a little beefier man. Good sound though. I like the edits. I like that you didn't over use those weird samples in the segue. A little bit more on the backups man. Delay is a tiny bit off for me in the bridge.  

ChrisJ - What the hell?  Very Happy That guitar lazered through my forehead. I like drum segue. THAT GUITAR IS KILLING ME. A little tiny on the snare man. Where's the kick? AHHHH THE TORTURE. THE HUMANITY! MAKE IT STOP!! Very Happy I see where you were going with the snare, it's has crack but no beef. I feel sorry for the rest of the guys I have to critique... my ears are about to fall off. Tell me what freq you bumped on that lead guitar so I'll know what to roll off in the future!  Very Happy

ATOR - Rock. Maybe less on the hats? A little less at 10k (give or take). I like the vocal treatment. It reminds me of Maynard from TOOL. Neat that you don't have to guess where it is. Could have used a little automation here and there (compression maybe). I like the tricked out piano. The verb is pretty big man. It makes it lose a little definition. Kind of washy. Big sounding though.

Osumosan - Man you really like that crushed sound! Listen to the difference of the intro and the rest of the song though. It's appropriate there, but then ends up way too much. It's this pumping mosh pit of frequencies man. You did a good job of not killing me with that hot hi hat. That would normally get on my nerves immediately, but I have bigger fish to fry in this mix. Maybe you could consider doing that kind of compression BEFORE that big reverb. It's like somebody at sound check before bodies suck up the reflections.

iCombs - Man I wish my snare was that big. I personally don't like the delay. But I've said that earlier. I'd like to hear a little thicker guitar and then the vocals up. Sounds great though. Whoa dude, not the stoner boys choir! That's too much for me. Delay is really weird IMO only! It didn't sound as "tough" as it did in my head man. Opinions. Opinions. Great track!

mcsnare - KICK ASS. Dont' like the delay dude. I want my drums to sound like that. Wahhh.  Sad That's a perfect choice for reverb dude! Balanced. Thick. You suck.  Very Happy Great mix. I wished that last tom would have rung out in the bridge. Cool piano treatment. Great Buildup. Hair less piano at the end?

Boedoconstrictor - A little low end heavy. I like this. I'm oviously not a fan of the delay vox on this track. I like out front vocals. Maybe just a dB or 2 down though. Or just some buss compression? I like the reverb. Nice mix dude.

maxim - I like the sounds but the blend seems to me a little off. WHAT WAS THAT? Wicked. Reverb is washing this out too. Blending man. The sounds are there I think, just needs some more here, a little less there, you know? I do like the delay and vocal treatment on the bridge. The vocals get lost there though. The piano takes over. Well, there are some vocals. Just work on the levels man. Good sounds.

Brian Lloyd - Nice snare crack. I need the kick to match that pizazz! Whoa! Samples jumped out there man. Could use some more bass. Pleasant bridge. Vocals are hot to me man. It just needs some balance work.

Ryst - Huge round butt. This delay doesn't bother me. Another guitar player, huh?  Very Happy (it takes one to know one). The vocals need to cut over those guitars man. The cymbals don't even do it. What does that tell you? More snare dude and I would have made rock horns. More drums period. Wait... less guitar. Cool bridge. Couple of tweaks... I like it.

fantomas - Solo is buried. Vocals don't hold up IMO. There are some really muddy things going on in the low end. WHOA! VERB! Backup vocals? Snare is too distant for that cymbal sound. OUCH. Somebody help that bass, it's on fire! Actually the vocals levels are all over the place man.

darkhorseporter - Man, do you have some metal skeletons in your closet?  Smile Pretty harsh 5k and up... and up... and up. I want more kick dude! A really clicky one at that! If you're gonna go there... go all the way my man. Take it easy on the vocal reverb yo! Backups need some steroids too. Another stadium, lighter blazing bridge! I like the "hair" direction you went.

MCarter - Cool sound man. I like the editing. (but do you really want to start that up again?)  Twisted Evil Although the snare is cool, it overkills the track. Can you tell the groupies in the hall to shut up while we're trying to record this bridge? Nice, just bring down the snare and undo all of your edits. LOL  Laughing

briefcasemanx - I love the dry vox. I thought that's all they needed on this track. We had a very similar approach I think. Midrange. Out front vocals. I need more of your drums though. Especially kick. The low end needs to meet up with the rest of it. Nice vox overall.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: J-Texas on August 28, 2007, 04:25:45 pm
darkhorseporter wrote on Tue, 28 August 2007 08:47

jason thompson - I like the edited intro.  I wish I had done the same to my mix.  The  instruments sound good.  The vocals need to sit better. actually, while I like the sounds and levels of the instruments, they aren't playing nice together.  bus compression might help.  hmm.  I think the bass is way too loud in the bridge.  wheres the piano?  I'd say you're 3/4 there.


I don't know if I agree man about the vocals. To me, that's what most people really listen to, especially in a radio tune. You don't have to strain to hear them, but they don't jump out either. As far as the piano, I didn't like the fake sample sound of the piano, and for my mix, I couldn't imagine a dude running out and jamming from the bridge to the end. It didn't fit for me. There was enough going on in the outro. Thanks for the input man!

Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: M Carter on August 28, 2007, 04:28:15 pm
J-texas -

Curiously enough - the edits were the brainchild of Ryan (of S H I T C O P T E R fame)

I do agree that the snare needs to come down, and I feel i should've put the drums WAY back in the verb on the arena rock part.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: J-Texas on August 28, 2007, 04:30:11 pm
M Carter wrote on Tue, 28 August 2007 13:28

The thing I noticed the most about the mixes was peoples' tendency to add a lot of upper mids to the guitars.  At times it helped a little, but most often it put the guitars in a separate space from the drums and made the whole thing sound smaller.  I'll get more specific later.  So far my favorite mixes are mcsnares and iCombs'.  I actually like mine this time around which is a new thing for me...

Matt


That's what I thought about mine and commented on about others. It's really jarring at first, but I think it worked really, really well when everything kicked in.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: M Carter on August 28, 2007, 04:45:59 pm
I felt the opposite on the addition of mid range, I felt like it flabbed the mix up a bit and the guitars didn't chug along like they have to.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: J-Texas on August 28, 2007, 05:35:30 pm
That's so weird man how people can have opposite opinions. To me, it sounded wimpy. I like the harsh, raw sound. I didn't want to make it teenie-bopper.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: Eric H. on August 28, 2007, 06:07:24 pm
it would be interesting to know, now that we've made our mix, how the song was tracked (i really liked the drum sounds and bass also). it's all well recorded and that helped much.
It would also be interesting to know with what config did we mix.
I, for myself, did it all in PT, lots of plugs, compression groups, and many delays.

Eric H.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: Baddo on August 28, 2007, 06:21:58 pm
J-Texas wrote on Tue, 28 August 2007 15:20

... Hats are harsh man...



mmm interesting.. is there a specific section or do you find them harsh the whole track?
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: J-Texas on August 28, 2007, 09:18:23 pm
Baddo wrote on Tue, 28 August 2007 17:21

mmm interesting.. is there a specific section or do you find them harsh the whole track?


I guess in general man. It's not that bad by any stretch. It's especially when they are banging wide open. It doesn't kill the mix for me... just an observation. A little tweak. Like I said, I like the mix. I think the segues are way too over the top for my taste, but what do I know.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: Baddo on August 28, 2007, 09:32:05 pm
J-Texas wrote on Tue, 28 August 2007 20:18

Baddo wrote on Tue, 28 August 2007 17:21

mmm interesting.. is there a specific section or do you find them harsh the whole track?


I guess in general man. It's not that bad by any stretch. It's especially when they are banging wide open. It doesn't kill the mix for me... just an observation. A little tweak. Like I said, I like the mix. I think the segues are way too over the top for my taste, but what do I know.


Oh, ok. I just asked because I like to identify this things...
    ...although now that you told me I don't know if I'll ever stop thinking about that HH being harsh whenever I listen to the song. Razz
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: J-Texas on August 28, 2007, 09:41:19 pm
Baddo wrote on Tue, 28 August 2007 20:32

J-Texas wrote on Tue, 28 August 2007 20:18

Baddo wrote on Tue, 28 August 2007 17:21

mmm interesting.. is there a specific section or do you find them harsh the whole track?


I guess in general man. It's not that bad by any stretch. It's especially when they are banging wide open. It doesn't kill the mix for me... just an observation. A little tweak. Like I said, I like the mix. I think the segues are way too over the top for my taste, but what do I know.


Oh, ok. I just asked because I like to identify this things...
    ...although now that you told me I don't know if I'll ever stop thinking about that HH being harsh whenever I listen to the song. Razz


I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN!!! LOL  Laughing  Don't lose sleep man and don't second guess. Just think about it next time. 10-4?
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: southboundloco on August 28, 2007, 09:56:37 pm
god damn i really need better snare samples
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: southboundloco on August 28, 2007, 10:14:35 pm
Quote:

Southbound - Metal mania. On the fence on the panning situation. Wow. Godzilla just stepped on the scene! Weak snare man IMO. Compression. compression. compression. Whoa. There that damn Godzilla again. Can somebody get him out of the studio? Nice toms. Interesting bridge. I would have cleaned up the fade at the end, unless that's what you were going for.


yeah sori bout the panning thing, i should have just done that in the second stanza, it was too early to introduce something weird in the beginning of the song. about the snare, thats why i really hate  resorting to sample replacement/enhancing when i have to use samples from a different place it totally fucks it up. thats why when i do tracking i always do my own samples.just have the drummer  whack that snare+toms on its own a couple of  times and record it in the beginning or the end, could be a life saver. GODZILLA?... hehe the end i just left it as it is. if its gonna get mastered the mastering guy can fix that fade out anyway.yeah yeah yeah am being lazy... Very Happy  
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: J-Texas on August 28, 2007, 10:20:36 pm
southboundloco wrote on Tue, 28 August 2007 21:14

yeah sori bout the panning thing, i should have just done that in the second stanza, it was too early to introduce something weird in the beginning of the song.


DUDE DO NOT APOLOGIZE. That was strictly my opinion. If that's what it felt like to you, then cool.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: chrisj on August 28, 2007, 10:24:38 pm
J-Texas wrote on Tue, 28 August 2007 16:20

ChrisJ - What the hell?  Very Happy That guitar lazered through my forehead. I like drum segue. THAT GUITAR IS KILLING ME. A little tiny on the snare man. Where's the kick? AHHHH THE TORTURE. THE HUMANITY! MAKE IT STOP!! Very Happy I see where you were going with the snare, it's has crack but no beef. I feel sorry for the rest of the guys I have to critique... my ears are about to fall off. Tell me what freq you bumped on that lead guitar so I'll know what to roll off in the future!  Very Happy


I don't know what you're complaining about. It's only 19 db of 3.1K boost.

Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing

Ain't I a sick puppy? J had me use only normal EQs and such just to try and get me not to do stuff like that, but sometimes I just can't help myself. The great thing is the occasional guy who actually LIKES it...
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: J-Texas on August 28, 2007, 10:52:07 pm
That's why your mix got 1 listen. I would be ruined in the vocal range if I listened to it again!   Laughing
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: Gabriel F on August 28, 2007, 10:52:56 pm
here are my reviews as always feel free to comment what you feel and if i let someone out please let me know.

jason thompson: i like de drums and bass, guitars feels a tad thin, nice mix.

icombs: bass is too soft, is that a tremolo on the guitar?
vocals could be a little bit louder, nice mix one of my favorites.

audio_geek: drums are too soft, the guitars are harsh, i like the phaser idea but it sounds a bit weird on that harsh solo, some weird sounds during the drum break.

briefcasemanx: snare could use some reverb and kick gets lost sometimes, i dont like the loud guitars, bass could be louder., nice balanced mix but needs more power.

chrisj: the solo is really harsh, bass sounds "honky", i dont like the snare in the drum break. this mix sounds more fuller than previous mixes from you

darkhorse power: cymbals harsh, snare lacks power. vocals feels distant especiallly because of the harsh cymbals.

devink: snare needs more depth, nice vocal treatments.

hlabb: nice drums and vocal treatment, maybe vocals with a little sibilance and guitars could be softer and bass loude.

macbraddy: i like the intro. i dont like the filtered vocals and the right guitar grabs too much attention because its loud and/or midrangey. nice kick drum.

mcsnare: nice drums, maybe the snare is a  little bright,  great vocal treatments. chorus vocals could be louder.great mix.

soul fire mix: i dont like the guitars they are too loud. watch those plosives. i like the drums but the guitars dominate everything.

adammiller.  guitars feels thin. nice mix.

ator: cymbals too bright and pumping weirdly. chorus vocals should be louder. nice mix.

baddo: i dont like the drum break effects. i dont like too much the guitar balance. nice mix.

boedoconstrictor: i dont like the vocal delays it feels weird maybe if you put the delay time shorter it could be great. chorus vocals could be louder. great mix one of my favorites.

fantomas (this is me): solo is too soft. vocals should be louder and put the delays louder too. i like the rithm section. i should back off the bass overdrive especially during the soft part, and automate better some of the vocals. i like the exagerated snare during the drum break.
I spend too little time with the vocals and almost forgot about the piano track.

jhall: guitars a tad bright, i like the vocal delays but they could be softer, it seems you got the same problem as me (lack of time), and spend most of your time making the rythm section rock. but i like it.

maxim: the band sounds dark and the vocals sounds pasted over it and feels disconneted from then band.

osumosan: loud loud loud, vocals sound thin. i could have liked the trashy drums if the cymbals were darker and quieter.

singsing: cymbals are too loud, i like the filtered vocal but sounds cheesey but in a good way. nice mix.

ryst: i like the guitars but they could be quieter. nice balanced nothing wrong but nothing really interesting.

blloyd: drums needs more power especially the kick drum. i dont really like the panned clean guitar. guitars too fizzy. if the drum break treatment were wuieter i could have like it a lot. nice piano. nice balance but lacks some power.

mcarter: this mix could be great if the guitars were a tad louder and with less hi mids and more low mids and a little overdrive on the bass (like my in mix). you took out those cheesy reggae guitars great but you should have made some drum fill or something. almost great mix.
 
My main problem except for the lack of time to work on the vocals was the guitars, i could not made them rock like i wanted, they had almost no useable low mids thats why i made the bass way big.
thats why i liked the mixes with the guitars quieter and/or with filtered hi mids
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: J-Texas on August 28, 2007, 10:58:41 pm
fantomas wrote on Tue, 28 August 2007 21:52



jason thompson: i like de drums and bass, guitars feels a tad thin, nice mix.



Thanks for the words brother. Yeah, the mid overkill was intentional on the guitar... I liked the crunch. It's always interesting how two people can listen to the exact same thing and hear it totally differently. As is the way of art my friend. Thanks again man.

JT
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: M Carter on August 29, 2007, 01:00:05 am
Ok.... here we go -

Audio~geek - Where'd the drums go? It's a little hard for me to sort out what's going on in the guitars in this mix.  I like that you did the dry vocal thing on the leads, it doesn't seem like too many people took it there.

J.Hall - i don't really want to go to far critiquing an unfinished mix, but it sounds like you had the right idea.  I don't really dig the delay on things though, it makes it feel less intense.

J-texas - you and I are going to agree to disagree on the mids.  to me all the mid range makes the mix sound smaller, was that intentional?  I noticed you didn't try to pull much ambience out of the drums, so the mix works as a mix, it's just not really the way i interpreted the song. nice work on taking out the piano though.. I wish I had done the same.  

HLabb -  this is the first mix that kept me interested all of the way through the song.  The only major change I'd make would be to give some of the secondary and background vocals their own personality, otherwise it sounds like 4 Adams fighting over the same space.

Soul Fire - The guitars sound a bit like they're going through a metal zone pedal, and are a bit distracting from the point of the song - the vocals and energy.  I dug the idea behind the filter ed drum breaks, but it feels a little half baked.  

macbraddy - the clean guitar intro needs to be lower.  trick the listener into jacking up the volume so when the song kicks in, it really kicks in.  the vocals feel a bit separated from the mix.  

Devin K - pretty straight forward, but the ambience is off on the vocal.  It feels like it's in this hole somewhere behind the music.  if you dried it up or wetted up the music, it'd go a long way.  

singsing - more metal zone guitars.  the drums aren't standing up to them.  Interesting switch up in the chorus, making the "why do i matter to you' the lead and the 'just can't wait' more of a background...  i hadn't thought of that.

Baddo - Kept the drums sounding pretty close mic'd while everything else got pretty huge.  I dig the guitar sound, I just want more beef from the drums to drive them along.

Southboundloco - intro sounds pretty cool, but the mix fell prey to the drum sounds.  They weren't bad drum sounds to begin with, they just weren't big enough for this type of song.  

AdamMiller - impressive - you had me sold until the vocals.  It felt like you got the music killin and then you dealt with the vocals afterwards.  

chrisj - way too weird for me in the midrange on the guitars.  I can't even imagine the havoc this could wreak on ears at loud volumes.  It's less extreme than your usual, but all that midrange in the 'solo guitar' really screws with the vocal placement.

Ator - I dig where you took the drums, but the verb on the snare takes me a bit out of the moment.  everything else about this one i really dig.  couple of other things - the bass could blend more with the guitars, and some of the vocals jump out. nice work otherwise.

Osumosan - the compression is a little extreme for me, but i like the energy of it.  Some things I noticed about this and your IMP13 mix - lots of reverb on the vocals and a limited frequency range over the entire mix.  is this intentional?

iCombs - One of my favorites, but the snare seems a little choked.  Maybe a big sounding sample?

mcsnare - easily the most consistent mix.  the transition into the end break sounded great.

BoedoConstrictor - Nice mix, but I want a little more 'inyourface-ness' to the vocal.  I say just squash that shit and call it a day!

Maxim - a real dark mix, huh? it sounds like you went a little apeshit with the eq.  i didn't think this track really needed anything extreme to work.

BrianLloyd - went for a more mono direction, eh? It feels a bit smaller than the other ones as a result.  

alright - i'm starting to get lazy, i'll have some more tomorrow...

Matt









Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: J-Texas on August 29, 2007, 09:03:12 am
M Carter wrote on Wed, 29 August 2007 00:00

J-texas - you and I are going to agree to disagree on the mids.  to me all the mid range makes the mix sound smaller, was that intentional?  I noticed you didn't try to pull much ambience out of the drums, so the mix works as a mix, it's just not really the way i interpreted the song. nice work on taking out the piano though.. I wish I had done the same.  



We're getting somewhere, you and I, Matt.  Very Happy  I wanted it crunchy and edgy like Peanut Brittle my man. It just works for me when all of the stuff kicks in. All of the sounds are still there for me, so I can't complain (except wanting my f-ing drums to sound like mcsnare's) That's a whole other story though. LOL. I'm just jealous and I can admit it.  Surprised  I think a lot of the coolness of the drums were there in the OHs, so I built on that. The room sounded cool so I capitalized on that and used the toms for room too. The piano was really sampled and fake sounding and frankly superfluous IMO. Everyone thinks that I took it out, but I used it with the bass guitar to give some little harmonic sounding overtones. Listen again to see what I mean. Thanks so much for the listen.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: osumosan on August 29, 2007, 09:25:30 am
M Carter wrote on Wed, 29 August 2007 01:00

Osumosan - the compression is a little extreme for me, but i like the energy of it.  Some things I noticed about this and your IMP13 mix - lots of reverb on the vocals and a limited frequency range over the entire mix.  is this intentional?



Dunno. I was going for the live sound again and I'm glad you liked the energy. I mixed this very loud in the headphones (what'd you say, sonny?) since I was away from my monitors for the week. I tried to keep an even keel on all the frequencies, and probably the compression smoothed a lot of that.

I do like compression and I do like dark. For some reason 10K really bugs me so I usually boost above that from 12k-16k usually. Maybe you're missing 8-10k in my mix. What do you think of my bottom?  Rolling Eyes  I still haven't had a chance to listen on my monitors, but I would probably agree with everyone's comments.

J-tex: I'm glad the hats weren't too much for you. They lost quite a bit in the mp3 conversion and you can hear artifacts, but probably the pumping that's there is my ducking of the OH's by the snare. It was an experiment to gain control over the snare sound while holding on to the sizzle. And yes, I was lovin' the verb. There's a room and a plate going and I automated the plate way up in the chorus, cause I was lovin' it!

fantomas: by thin, do you mean low in the mix? For rock I like the vox to be "in" the band. My IMP13 mix was an extreme version of that and I thought these should ride over the mix a bit, so a +1db up version would be called for here. It kind of kills me that I'm on that end of the loudness spectrum, but I like the way a buss compressor glues a mix. I usually pull back on the threshold quite a bit at the end of a mix, too. You should hear it crushed before that.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: M Carter on August 29, 2007, 10:37:50 am
osumosan -

Did you "vintage warm" the mix buss ?   It's one of those mixes I'm a little afraid to turn up because it's already so loud feeling, but it doesn't feel "big" loud, just loud.  Something you may want to try is running your supercompressed mix alongside a less compressed (or not at all compressed) mix to help keep all the low end and transients you lose in the compression.  

What did you guys use as a reference?  My main ref for this was the Atari's cover of that Don Henley jam "Boys Of Summer".

Matt
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: ATOR on August 29, 2007, 12:03:56 pm
Another IMP with very diverse mixes.

Here are my comments:

Adam Miller
Meaty sound, Guitars have too much lo-mids and cloud the vocals. You cut out the break, it does keep the pace going.

Audio~Geek
The low end is a boomy mess. Guitarsound is big but too loud in volume, I like to hear more drums. Vocals are a bit thin and sibilant.

Baddo
Snare sounds punchy but could use more ambience/plate to get bigger. I like to hear more bassguitar. Good guitars. Maybe you could make the vocals more prominent.

Boedoconstrictor
This one could use guitar timing editing. Balance is good. I like the drums. Great mix.

Briefcasemanx
The guitars take up too much room esp the lo-mids could use cleaning up. Fill the space you get with drums and I'm a happy man. The rest of the mix sounds great.

ChrisJ
Overpowering lo-mids. The lead guitar sounds seriously AM-radio fucked up. You've shown that you still can do that without using your homegrown plugs Very Happy Drums could use more body and ambience. Balance is good.

Darkhorsereporter
Cymbals sound like noise. The space from the leadvocals doesn't match the band. The hi-end really hurts. If this sounds good in your studio I'd check if you haven't blown up your tweeters. I have to use a -10dB hi-shelf from 9k to be able to listen to this.

DevinK
Lo-mids could use more attention. The guitars, bass and kick fight in that area. Nice spacey break.

Fantomas
Drums could use more presence, they're too far away except the kick which is very close. Guitars are overpowering esp lo-mids. BG vox are very far away. The distortion on the bass doesn't work that well on the (out of tune) bass-harmonies.

HLabb
Great separation and sound. Wow yeah, this is a great mix. No compromises on timing, nice out of tune bass/piano solo fix. There are some clicks when the guitar parts end but hey nothing is perfect. Respect!

ICombs
Low end is muddy. Guitars too loud. Vocals are sibilant. The sounds are pretty good but need some fixes to really shine through. The pumping compression kills the mix.

Jason Thompson
Very middy sounding band. The vocals are great. The drumspace is too small compared to how wide the guitars are: the guitars are 50ft apart but the drums are in a 12ft room. Balance is good.

JHall
It’s a good starting point, now all you have to do is make everything louder Laughing

Just Go
This mix needs more work, sounds like a faders up mix.

M Carter
Nice intro. Low end is muddy. Kick is a little too ponderous. Snare is too loud which I wouldn’t mind if the vocals were louder. I see you made some radio edits. I don’t like the church choir breakdown.

MacBraddy
Sounds are big. I’d like to hear more bassguitar. I don’t like the bandpassed vocals, it’s nice as an effect but not for the whole song. Good separation and balance.

Maxim
It all sounds muddy and far away except the vocals and lead guitar and the drumsample break. The airplane hangar delay/reverb on the guitar was a bad idea.

MsSnare
Yeah, another great mix. The track would be more direct if the vocal and drum space was smaller and less obvious. Kick is a little too loud in the (lo-)mid freqs, the bassguitar could use more room there. I think you forgot the toms.

Osumosan
Promising start but then the mix gets killed by an overdose of compression. I think the sounds and balance are very good but man the compression.

Ryst
Guitars are too loud, I like more drums and way more bass.  

Singsing
Cymbals are all highs but the snare sounds muffled. Separation is good. Vocals could use some more body. It’s dynamic wise too flat to keep me interested.

Soul Fire
Guitars lack bottom. Vocals are sibilant and distant. Drums could use more power and presence.

Southboundloco
Drums need more punch and presence. Guitars are too loud. I don’t like the compression killing the loud parts. I like the snare delay in the break.

Teleric
Leadguitar in intro is too loud. Balance is good. Leadvocal could use more power. Drums could use more presence. The tapedelay feels alien here.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: Gabriel F on August 29, 2007, 01:14:02 pm
osumosan, the vocals feels like they could have more low mids or maybe a louder delay o reverb treatment to add some depth.
in fact the actual raw tracks lacked some power to me, it sounds like a decent chinese microphone but i could be wrong, especially if you compare the sound against the drums that sounded pretty good.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: iCombs on August 29, 2007, 01:29:51 pm
fantomas wrote on Wed, 29 August 2007 12:14

osumosan, the vocals feels like they could have more low mids or maybe a louder delay o reverb treatment to add some depth.
in fact the actual raw tracks lacked some power to me, it sounds like a decent chinese microphone but i could be wrong, especially if you compare the sound against the drums that sounded pretty good.


Sorta...Jeff's vocal was an ADK CE sent through a PreSonus M80 pre.  Adam's vocal was a Peluso 2247 through a TAB/Funkenwerks V78M.  

The irony here for me is that the drums were nothing really special in terms of mics.  57's on the snare...an ATM25 in the kick and a TLM 103 on the front of the kick...Studio Projects C4's (through presonus tubePre's) on the toms and a pair of 451's on the overheads...nothing really extravagant by any stretch of the imagination.  Especially if you saw the room.  Tiny.  Mouse-infested.  In the middle of freakin' nowhere.  All run into a Digi 001.

The thing that made these drums sound good was a good, hard-hitting drummer and a decently tuned good sounding kit (the heads were really old...especially the toms as Dave tends to snap snare heads like it's going out of style).  It really only takes DECENT engineering to make Dave sound good behind a drum kit.  If we take the time to really make sure everything is sounding killer...well...

When I get our new album mixed, I'll post some samples for y'all.  Suffice it to say that the API preamps we rented paid off big time...especially for drums.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: Gabriel F on August 29, 2007, 01:33:29 pm
icombs, what guitar amplifiers did you use?.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: iCombs on August 29, 2007, 02:05:19 pm
On this track I believe we used a Marshall JCM2000 DSL 50 watt head and 1960A cab for Adam's tracks, and a modified Soldano SLO 100 watt head through a Carvin Legacy cab with Celestion Greenbacks for the other tracks (both Ryan's rhythm guitars and my overdubbed arpeggio in the lead guitar track).  If I remember correctly, both amps had an RE20 in front of them, though it's possible that I used a 57 on Adam's cab.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: iCombs on August 29, 2007, 06:21:50 pm
ROUND TWO
---------

osoundman - I totally dig the aggression.  Holy shit.  The snare fits in there a little awkwardly to my ear, but I'm also used to hearing that as a smaller, tighter snare sound.  All in all, the whole track is a little too "pumpy" for my taste...and for this style of track, it might just be too pumpy in general.  I can really feel it in the guitar tracks, and that might be where it is the most distracting to me.  With the generally big open chords, that compressor isn't really controlling dynamics on a distorted guitar...a little for tone...I can hear you there, but that sounds a little overboard to me.

ATOR - I dig the grain in the guitar.  Kinda reminds me of McSnare's mix. The stereo split in the pre-chorus vocals is interesting, but it feels like it pushes them into the "no-man's land' of the Cardinal Points (tm), and kinda pushes them into the realm of the backing vocal when they're really not.  Warbly piano!  Edited vocals!  Interesting take on that!  I'm not sure you've got me sold on the piano, but I like the way you've built it up!  I'm not sure all the harmony stacks work in the last chorus...I think I made this comment previously, but those are some really dense harmonies to put over 3 guitars, bass, and piano.  Really good mix, though.  I like the control all the way through.  

ChrisJ - Man did your cymbals get washed by the mp3.  That lead guitar sounds like a pissed off hornet in a two-liter bottle!  The vocal treatments all sound really good...but dear sweet lord what did you do to that lead guitar track?  It sounds like a really angry resonant filter, though it's probably just a really, really tweaked EQ.  It really kinda stomps all over everything.  Everything else feels fairly strong, but I'd like to hear a little more from the snare and kick in the denser parts of the mix.  

Adam Miller - I like the polish in the drums right off the bat.  The delay on Jeff's vocal is really nice and tasteful.  Pre-chorus vocals sound a little back in the mix...and it might be nice to hear a little more sizzle out of the guitars and just a hair more grit out of the bass considering the punky nature of the riff.  Not sure I totally buy the edit in that verse, especially because of what it does to the vocal.  Had you left the vocal arrangement in there and then kept the riff going under that, you might've accomplished something a little smoother.  I like the mix parts...I'm not sold on the arrangement editing, but I think there's some room there to work.

southboundloco - holy mother of bright brass and guitars, batman!  That stuff is WAY aggressive, but there seems to be a cut in the upper mids that makes it sound kinda like everything is seperate from everything else.  The vocals are way on top of everything else, the bass is way under everything else, and the snare and the guitar sound like they are trying to avoid each other.  It generally lacks cohesion.  The guitars are really dominating the mix...and I'm not sure it's in a healthy way.  The drum delay in the break is distracting.  Also, your mix is shit hot.  What was on your master buss?

Baddo - right off the bat, the guitars feel a little small and a little condensed in the 3k region.  The snare has really good smack to it.  The whole mix feels a bit light in the low mids, which feels like it's really coming out of the guitars...some of the ear candy effects are cool...but some of them are better than others...the flange on the drum samples was slick.  The spinner on the clean guitars?  Not as cool.  I like the midrange punch of the bass, but it feels like it could be a little fatter on the bottom.  The balance work is generally solid, though...perhaps a look at your monitoring situation?
----------------------------------

Alrighty...I gotta grab some dinner...so I think that might be it for the day...but one more round of reviews and I should be done with mine.  I'm really trying to get a little more in depth with my reviews because it's my band's track and I"m pretty intimately familiar with what we wanted out of it...so hopefully I can give good input as far as that is concerned.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: southboundloco on August 29, 2007, 09:03:30 pm
Quote:

southboundloco - holy mother of bright brass and guitars, batman! That stuff is WAY aggressive, but there seems to be a cut in the upper mids that makes it sound kinda like everything is seperate from everything else. The vocals are way on top of everything else, the bass is way under everything else, and the snare and the guitar sound like they are trying to avoid each other. It generally lacks cohesion. The guitars are really dominating the mix...and I'm not sure it's in a healthy way. The drum delay in the break is distracting. Also, your mix is shit hot. What was on your master buss?


hehe  Very Happy well there was no pointers on the desired outcome of the mix in the 1st place so i took it and ran with it Very Happy , thats my take on the song anyway i wanted it to sound main-stream pop rock aggressive Very Happy ,hence the wall of guitar sound. r u the drummer/bass player?...vocals... isn't that where its suppose to be?...i kinda did a bit of pseudo mastering but i was only taking out 1-2 db... Very Happy    
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: southboundloco on August 29, 2007, 09:08:34 pm
oh and if the breaks made u go "wtf was that?" then i achieved my goal Laughing   Laughing

nice song though fun to mix! Laughing
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: osumosan on August 30, 2007, 01:07:38 am
M Carter wrote on Wed, 29 August 2007 10:37

osumosan -

Did you "vintage warm" the mix buss ?   It's one of those mixes I'm a little afraid to turn up because it's already so loud feeling, but it doesn't feel "big" loud, just loud.  Something you may want to try is running your supercompressed mix alongside a less compressed (or not at all compressed) mix to help keep all the low end and transients you lose in the compression.
Matt


Totally! I always put the VW knee up to about 25 in fat mode on the drum buss without even thinking. On the mix buss, I usually back off the attack as a quickie parallel compression simulation. I haven't done the compressed/uncompressed mix thing in a while. I guess it's time to bring it back. This is just a phase i think -- I'll grow out of it. Mixing on monitors instead of phones will probably help, too.

iCombs wrote on Wed, 29 August 2007 18:21

it might just be too pumpy in general. I can really feel it in the guitar tracks


Right on here, too. I felt that although I could feel the guitars, I lost the clarity I got when I first started working with them. I'd like to get some crunch back. Your mix had a guitar sound I'd like to get.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: iCombs on August 30, 2007, 01:57:19 am
Well...the guitars in my mix were nothing crazy...some shelf at like 7 or 8k for hair and sizzle...some at 4 or so for crunch...pull some at 1k to reign in the mids and add some "big" vibe to the equation...a little boost around 200 or 250 or so for the bottom end...and a pretty steep highpass a 75 or 80Hz to keep the infrasonics in check.

The compression on those is the tricky part.  Too much and they just sound weird and pumpy.  Just a little compression after the EQ does 2 things...1) adds a little extra sense of density and forwardness to the guitars...and 2) helps control some of the EQ work I just did.  The biggest part of getting guitar compression right in my eyes is using a really quick release.  I think I was using something like 20ms attack and release...and when it's that fast it helps to control some of the resonance of the chugs and any other little spiky things that come along.

I used to not be that aggressive with my EQ on guitars, figuring that I just pretty much had to get the sound at the mic.  Granted, I know that the lion's share of the work is done at that level, but I'm no longer as averse to twisting a couple knobs to get the guitars to sit where I want them to.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: iCombs on August 30, 2007, 02:14:22 am
southboundloco wrote on Wed, 29 August 2007 20:03

Quote:

southboundloco - holy mother of bright brass and guitars, batman! That stuff is WAY aggressive, but there seems to be a cut in the upper mids that makes it sound kinda like everything is seperate from everything else. The vocals are way on top of everything else, the bass is way under everything else, and the snare and the guitar sound like they are trying to avoid each other. It generally lacks cohesion. The guitars are really dominating the mix...and I'm not sure it's in a healthy way. The drum delay in the break is distracting. Also, your mix is shit hot. What was on your master buss?


hehe  Very Happy well there was no pointers on the desired outcome of the mix in the 1st place so i took it and ran with it Very Happy , thats my take on the song anyway i wanted it to sound main-stream pop rock aggressive Very Happy ,hence the wall of guitar sound. r u the drummer/bass player?...vocals... isn't that where its suppose to be?...i kinda did a bit of pseudo mastering but i was only taking out 1-2 db... Very Happy    


Well...the no desired outcome is a huge part of IMP as I'm sure j. will agree with.  The concept is to work on honing your skills as a mix engineer in a sort of risk-free laboratory environment with feedback.  You CAN do it however you want...and I'm only one guy listening to and reviewing your mix, but as you see a few more critiques of your work, you can make assessments of your success in achieving what you set out to.  When you've gained the control to have a broad cross-section of other people say "I get where you're going with this," you've learned something big.  I think we're all still working on that in our own ways...obviously some of us have way more experience than others, and lord knows I'm learning tons every time I do these IMP's.  I can only hope that I can learn to translate what I conceive in my brain into something that people can clearly percieve in their ears.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: briefcasemanx on August 30, 2007, 11:45:30 am
I like what you did with your kick too icombs, and the background vocals on the "can't wait to go". Do tell.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: j.hall on August 30, 2007, 07:53:43 pm
ATOR wrote on Wed, 29 August 2007 11:03

JHall
It?s a good starting point, now all you have to do is make everything louder Laughing




HA.  that's what every mix needs right?  just keep turning everything up!!!!!!

Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: chrisj on August 31, 2007, 02:18:55 am
IMP 14- Crit Or Die!

First, some ones I'll skip 'cos of not following the rules exactly- save me the trouble of actually doing a crit.

IMP14_audio_geek: wrong bit rate, you gotta use what J says, so we all suffer alike Wink

IMP14-singsing: ditto, not the right bit rate. These were part of the rules and changing that will make the entry sound different from everyone else's.

IMP_14-JUST GO (blloyd): spaces in the filename! Seems to have downloaded OK, but it does say no spaces. I presume there can be file handling problems in some cases with spaces. This is waaaaay more of a technicality, but I'm so slammed for time I'm going to weasel out of critting the entry on that basis Smile

Now on to the crits themselves...

IMP_14_Jason_Thompson: Snarly guitars. I like how they're voiced, and the track swings. Drums have a neat thump and pop. All in all this is very likeable Smile

IMP-14_Ryst: I'm totally thinking hair metal here. Lots of hairspray on the guitars, lots of fog machines and red spotlights.

IMP14_-_iCombsMix: it's big but sort of dissipated? Nothing is remotely upfront. I can't get into this song much when it sits back. Actually no matter what the music, I want SOMETHING to be upfront and commanding attention. I'm really missing somebody jumping forward and being the star. On the bright side a neat guitar sweep jumped out a bit Smile

IMP14_briefcasemanx: OK, here's the opposite. Everything's a bit too much upfront, I want more space for the music to move, it's like it's crammed into a phonebooth. I do like how the vocals are squeezing to the front.

IMP14_ChrisJ: next time we take your EQs away! Fuck you all, I still like the obnoxious lead guitar Wink It's amazing how much it can hurt some people without being that much more loud than everything else- it does sound like it's in a tin can tho. Oops Smile so I concede, it was just wrong.

imp14_darkhorseporter: Wow, this is pretty brite. DAMN is it brite. My speakers don't tend to emphasis the bright much at the moment, so the fact that this is overwhelmingly bright is ominous. Lead guitar sounds kind of like mine Smile nice use of verbs tho Smile

IMP14_DevinK_03: Wildly out of step with modern mix sounds Wink now, that understood, this sounds kinda cool. It's hard to get used to, and I'm a big classic vinyl record fan so I should be all over this stuff. The guitars sit way back like it was Journey. Glossy cymbals. I just dunno. It's bringing out the things about the track I'm not so into.

imp14_HLabb: Ok, now THAT is the way to do the lead guitar. I stand corrected. Nothing else is really jumping out at me as something that must be listened to, though- it's like a lot of good sounds that don't add up into a killer song perhaps because it's not that much of a killer song Smile I think this one needs more than good sounds, perhaps why I threw in some AWFUL sounds in an attempt to fake excitement Smile

imp14_macbraddy: Hey, really good balance! hey, really good impact! This is the metalhead mix, no? It's a little brite but I'm still liking it, it's actually making me want to hear where the song goes. I wonder how much is about how bombastic this is, because this is really over the top. The only thing really tiring me is that half-open hihat. Also the voices are a bit too much like they're singing through cardboard boxes until the end chorus, but the thing is, it was working to make me want to hear more, for some Godforsaken reason. Probably the same stuff with me and the ugly guitar- searing midrange sounds making it sound like it's projecting more. All in all, I think this one's a winner. WELL DONE.

IMP14_mcsnare: Immediately more professional-sounding than most. It's not lighting me up like macbraddy's amazing entry, though, I think because it's more faithful to the sort of laid back energy coming off the track. It's authoritative but boring. All the sounds are apparently exactly as God intended them, but there's not enough wrong to make it compelling. It makes me like the mixer but NOT the band. That's a pretty serious fault from such an otherwise stellar entry. Ask yourself, how could this be more compelling through some element being really obnoxious? What would make the band/song sound less predictable and on rails? I'm convinced that's part of what macbraddy did- he had everything more angular and edgy, and all the voices sounded like they were screaming, at the high cost of making them sound really weird.

IMP14_Soul_Fire_Mix: Raucous! This time it's the guitars which are obnoxious. I think there are a lot of elements here which don't sound that professional, but it hints at being interesting. I guess the guitars are distracting, so crunchy and loud. Vocals feel pretty strong, bright spotlight on those guys while every guitar has THREE bright spotlights on it...

IMP14-ATOR: Big and wide- so much so that somehow I'm still waiting for the main part of the song to kick in. I'm looking for something- probably just my mid-happiness- the body of the song feels empty except for the vocals. I feel like the guitars aren't strong enough to carry this one. The drums are just killing them, it's like they're a guitar pad.

IMP14-Baddo: Another one where something is a little empty. I think I get that feeling when everything's distant and laid back but there are loud cymbals and sibilance- also I'm beginning to get tired of attacky drums, I'm starting to hate that 'tok' feel of closemiked but unbutchered drums.

imp14-maxim: OK, time to study mcsnare... this has just got too much buried stuff. The primary problem is how the  track fills up space- it mostly doesn't, stuff comes from really far back, including some pretty major dynamic hits. It sounds like an electronica mix or something ambient- it doesn't really work in the genre the music is in to have the biggest things being the piano and chorus vocals. Sorry, no worky, even if the piano part is cool- even if the straight rock approach isn't that hot either. It just really needs to be big in different places than it is.

IMP14-Osumosan: okay, how about it needs to be freaking smaller? This isn't making it, and the reason is: even though it's producing a big, exploding, brutal sound, it's the MIX which is doing the bigness and exploding. You gotta make it sound more like the musicians are doing the exploding. It's compression swings going boom, it's really distracting. I think when the 2-buss morphs and pumps THAT much it's hard to even hear the music happening. Mix is screaming 'my hed is pastede on yay'.

IMP14AdamMiller: Here we have boxy and solid, a sense of physicality. Actually it's kinda working for me... I'm not thrilled with the band but I do want to listen some more. It seems like part of that is the way the low end is kicking. Do we have an arrangement change to something that isn't as good as the original song was? It sort of went motoring on when I expected it to throw in a change. Hmmm. This song doesn't need help motoring on Wink boy, it does make me want to keep listening though. Maybe it's because of how well it's balanced in the lows and low mids? I don't even know what it is, but sump'm worked.

IMP14BOEDOCONSTRICTORMIX: Upfront and vivid as hell- loads of clarity on everything, but that isn't making me want to hear more. It makes you wonder. Maybe I'm just hating everything that has treble? Wink more like, this is a sound picture that's very arbitrary. Hats are super bright and in front of everything else, the kick drum swings a lot of bass but the guitars are a wash, the bass guitar seems to drone (probably because it is)... there's just not enough of a sense of reality here for me to latch onto it. Like, that kick drum can't exist in the same room as that snare because they just act too differently, same as the hats, the guitars aren't in the same world as the vox... I just think this is an awfully hard song to make compelling and this mix lost me through relying on raw sounds instead of the ensemble.

IMP14Fantomas: Wow, deep man Smile if you took away all the cymbals this mix would be about half a mile away. I think that's a thing that always loses me, hearing murk combined with the 'sss sss sss sss' of cymbals. No likey, sorry. What would you be forced to do if you didn't have the cymbals there to fill up high end? Wouldn't it start to seem a little deep and murky?

imp14JHall: At last we can work out on J Wink yeah, this ain't finished, and this is why: sounds are coherent and all there, but they're not gelling. Sometimes the snare feels very weak, sometimes the guitars feel stuck on- I like how central the vocals are, but there's an unconnected feeling to everything. Not all the time, sometimes it's very 'there' but what makes it feel like the faders up mix it is, is inconsistency, the way that sometimes stuff hits and sometimes it fluffs. The sound treatments are all good and solid but they don't always add up. I think sometimes we do that with overkill (macbraddy!) and sometimes we're not concerned with it at all, but here we get to hear J, who normally gets stuff to add up and gel, NOT doing it due to not being finished. That makes it an interesting study- thanks J for having the balls to put up a stage of your work we normally would never hear Smile

IMP14southboundlocoprint1: hey, compelling vocals! The song itself just feels generically big, perhaps because of the distortions of image I talked about with Boedo's, but for some reason the vocals are really clicking on this one. I wonder how much of that has to do with the radical hard panning? For some reason when the guy's yelling out of the side speaker, he feels so very immediate. I'd be interested to know the signal chain on the verse vocals in this mix. Part of it is surely how hot the vox are, because they're REALLY REALLY hot. If everything was as hot, the mix would suck, but instead it's a loud mix in which the vocals just blow everything else away...

M_Carter-IMP14: Pretty soft, what's it doing with the additional dynamics it gets? One thing is, it's nailing a really hot backbeat, I'm liking the feel of this snare. It's bugging me how nothing else is keeping up with the snare. The guitars are like pads again, the vocals are not aggressive. Also  it keeps feeling like there are arrangement changes although I can't place exactly what they are. Things like the verby chorus gang vocals being more present than the guitars tend to throw me.

So this was a bitchy crit, but I've been too stressed out, so take it all with a grain of salt and take what you need, ignore everything else. I'm sort of using what I hear to work out HOW I hear and WHY I do some of the things I try and fail to do Very Happy for that reason, some of my reactions will be 'this sucks' because it sucks for ME and how I hear. YMMV.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: M Carter on August 31, 2007, 02:37:43 am
ChrisJ - usually I'm pretty receptive to comments and opinions... but you lost me on those.  I do think the snare's a bit hot in the mix, could be lower, same goes for the verbed vox.  But I definitely disagree with your comments about the lead vocal.  But... this is where different interpretations of the same thing come in.  

Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: chrisj on August 31, 2007, 04:02:17 am
Oh, I could be completely wrong, my judgement isn't really great these days thanks to the stressed out thing I mentioned. That's why I said it was too bitchy of a crit really- all I can say about that is that I'm sorry, and that I wanted to do a crit rather than fail to do one. I did feel the vocals weren't aggressive, maybe just compared with some of the other entries like southboundloco's and macbraddy's. Note that in some of the cases where the vocal is aggressive, it sounds bad, but I still like it better... which shows you how screwed up I am in the head THIS time around Wink
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: M Carter on August 31, 2007, 09:06:51 am
chrisj -

no need to apologize - you're more than entitled to your opinion.  I feel (sonically speaking and otherwise) that there's a very fine line between aggressive and harsh, and harsh is NEVER a good descriptive term for the way something looks or sounds.  A lot of the heavily filtered vocal mixes made the songs sound generally a bit disjointed and made the focus of the song the music rather than the vocal, which is just not how this style of "pop punk" works.  

I'm def interested in knowing where people were coming from one their mixes. anyone?
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: slash5969 on August 31, 2007, 10:39:34 am
This is perhaps THE coolest thing I've run across on the internet since I started learning to mix. I am pretty green, and I'm seriously impressed with the quality and ingenuity that I hear in these submissions.

Give yourselves a collective pat-on-the-back, guys. You rock!

I missed the deadline to submit, but I did mix the song. It's a fantastic way to learn, and since I didn't have any emotional connection to any of the tracks, I was able to approach this entirely from a true mixing POV - unlike working on my own stuff or even other people's stuff that I tracked.

I am looking forward to the next round with great anticipation!

Ciao,

David
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: Adam Miller on August 31, 2007, 10:44:53 am
Hello everyone....

these are my first impressions of the mixes, in the order wot they turned up on my hard drive:

Ryst- Where are the drums? Too far back in the mix for this kind of music I think. Guitars sound both quite dull and harsh at the same time- i think you need to be a bit more selective with your eq. I do like the vocal treatments a lot though- they sound great throughout.

ATOR- Overall tonality quite harsh and thin- sounds like a +8 shelf on the overheads at 12k- distracts from the rest of the mix, which i actually think is pretty good. Good vocal blend, cool drums, if a bit thin. I like the little drum breaks. Also like what you've done with the piano.

Maxim- balance of vocals to everything else is completely out of whack. Vocals are relatively bright and present, but everything else sounds like it's coming through a duvet. The balance gets even worse with the piano in the final chorus, sorry...

Osumosan- Nice energy, but far too overcooked, i think. Monster compression and pumping hihats- It just sounds distracting to me. The whole thing has the kind of ambience that suggests playing in an empty warehouse or highschool gym- it all needs to be dialled back.

SingSing- Drums sound nice and tight- i like- although that hihat again... The whole thing doesn't sound bad, all the balances are there, but the combination of compression and relentless hi-end make this quite fatiguing to listen to. The piano ending is perfect though, nice one.

Icombs- Sounds good straight off the bat. Vocals sound a bit spitty in relation to the rest of the elements, but this could be easily corrected. Kick is a little too loud. Guitars are maybe a little 'scratchy' sounding, but nothing major. Vox reverb in the breakdown is maybe a little much. Overall though, a very decent mix.

Briefcasemanx- Where are the drums? Need more aggressive processing and probably samples to help them kick through the rest of the elements. The rest actually sounds ok (though vox could do with a bit more ambience) but the drums upset the rest of the mix balance.

ChrisJ- When that bloody lead guitar isn't in during the verses, the balance actually sounds ok, but your individual elements sound as though you've crappified them on purpose. I'm not sure what more i can say... your vocal mixes are generally good... the overall thing just sounds like it's been ravaged by mp3 compression, which I suspect is more to do with mix decisions than anything else.

Darkhorseporter- MONSTER hi-end – I'd be inclined to check your monitoring. It's hard to get past this to the rest of the mix, which I suspect is not bad at all... drums need a bit more punch.

Hlabb- Best mix by a country mile. Vocal delay in the verses is maybe a little too much. I would say it also lacks a little midrange meat, but nothing that couldn't be corrected easily in the mastering stage. Nice edit in the little ska section. The only thing that would give me cause for concern is the brightness of the hihats vs. the vocals, but that is really just a nitpick. Drums great, guitars great, bass sits well- it sounds like a record.

McSnare- The more i listen to this one, the more i like it. I would take issue with the kick sound though- it sounds like it has quite a lot of midrange 'knock'... I would be inclined to think it sounds big by sheer virtue of its volume- I think it's actually slightly lacking in low-end weight. My preference would be a less bombastic snare verb too, but that's only my preference. A bit ott on the toms maybe? Overall though, a really engaging mix, esp the vocals.

Soulfire- Guitars sound off- like a  really hi Q boost somewhere in the mids. It puts the guitars in different space from the drums, and makes the mix quite fatiguing to listen to. With this pulled back a bit, the mix could be pretty decent.

Boedoconstrictor- Hihats sizzling through again- too much upper treble boost? Rest of the mix is pretty cool. Drums sound ok, slightly uncontrolled. Vocals are decent. The whole thing sounds like it needs a couple more hours of refinement. Subtle use of the piano is cool.

Fantomas- The whole mix is not bad, but it just has the feel of a demo. Too much drum verb, unengaging guitars. No massive problems, i think you just need to keep working on it and developing your mixing... I hope that doesn't sound too patronising!

Jhall- Cool basic balance... i think everything has been said already, too much vocal delay etc etc...  Could be a really cool mix.

Blloyd- Really thin... Probably a monitoring issue, I'd guess. Drums sound unexciting, I think the sounds need more work. It's hard to get past the lack of lowend though.    

Mcarter- that snare drum REALLY stands out- it's quite distracting. Nice edit in the ska break. I'm undecided about the chorus edits... they do speed things along. Bit too much vox verb in the breakdown. Apart from the snare, the balance is pretty good, I just think the sounds need a bit more attitude.    

DevinK- Not bad... Kick drum sounds a bit lumpy and uncontrolled. Ambience on the chorus vocals makes them sound a little detached from the rest of the music. That bass sounds a little twangy in the breakdown. Overall though, a decent balance.

Macbraddy- Top end sounds a bit harsh, and it's lacking in midrange articulation. I'm not sold on the vocals either, they sit too far back and the pitch spread effect is a little overdone- they don't 'speak' to me as directly as they should. Nevertheless, the mix is pretty good, would have been nice to get a snare that matched the kick sound. Some really great little breaks and sounds that lead the ear through the mix.  

Jason Thompson- Overall tonality is a bit middy and constricted. Kick and bass are a bit honky and lacking in balls for my liking. Balance of elements is good, and the mix is otherwise well constructed, just not 'radio-ready' sounding.


Thanks to everyone that reviewed my mix, all comments are very welcome.

RE the edits in the second verse where I chopped the little ska section out... On first listen through the raw multitracks, that was the section that screamed out to me as sounding amateurish; just poorly conceived and played in comparison with the rest of the track. Keeping the momentum up seemed more important to me than the making perfect sense of the lyrics, so that part got the snip... Not sure whether that was a mistake or not- always hard to judge something like that when you've heard a track so much.

Big thanks to iCombs and J.

Cheers,

Adam
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: M Carter on August 31, 2007, 11:52:32 am
Adam -

It's pretty amazing some of the shit we can't notice until someone else tells us.  I'm not sure if the problem is the snare coming down, or everything else coming.  What I've noticed on my little altec lansings at work is that at the same volume, my snare is about as loud as yours... but nothing else is at that volume.  

Thanks for the critique.

Matt
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: Baddo on August 31, 2007, 12:01:03 pm
Adam Miller wrote on Fri, 31 August 2007 09:44

Hello everyone....

these are my first impressions of the mixes, in the order wot they turned up on my hard drive:...


No me? Where's me?

Didn't my mix turn up on your HD?

buuuu   Crying or Very Sad
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: J-Texas on August 31, 2007, 12:36:55 pm
ATOR wrote on Wed, 29 August 2007 11:03

Jason Thompson
Very middy sounding band. The vocals are great. The drumspace is too small compared to how wide the guitars are: the guitars are 50ft apart but the drums are in a 12ft room. Balance is good.



chrisj wrote on Fri, 31 August 2007 01:18

IMP_14_Jason_Thompson: Snarly guitars. I like how they're voiced, and the track swings. Drums have a neat thump and pop. All in all this is very likeable Smile


Adam Miller wrote on Fri, 31 August 2007 09:44

Jason Thompson- Overall tonality is a bit middy and constricted. Kick and bass are a bit honky and lacking in balls for my liking. Balance of elements is good, and the mix is otherwise well constructed, just not 'radio-ready' sounding.


Okay... consensus is: My drums need to sound like mcsnare (asshole  Very Happy ) My mix was well balanced despite the aggressive mids (which were intentional). I agree with all of that. Thanks guys for the crit.

CHRISj - My mix must be perfect for you because I am convinced, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you have some mid frequency hearing loss, a screw loose, and a possible coke (and/or) speed addiction.  Laughing   Laughing  Laughing  Laughing
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: Adam Miller on August 31, 2007, 01:05:39 pm
Sorry Baddo!

For some reason your mix went awol. Here are my thoughts, although I'm listening on headphones rather than my proper monitors. (they're good headphones tho...)

My first impression is that you might have some kind of monitoring issue- too much lowend? Your mix sounds a bit thin in the bass and lower mids, but it is very consistent- everything sounds very well balanced and is articulated well. It could probably be corrected relatively easily in the mastering. Love the little flange thing in the drum break. Vocals are maybe a little reticent in comparison with the rest of the track (probably like my mix...). I think you might have gone a little overboard on the compression- the top end sounds a bit squashed and relentless- however, it's no big deal, nowhere near as drastic as some of the other entries. Overall, a good mix though, very engaging.

Cheers

Ad  
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: chrisj on August 31, 2007, 02:05:48 pm
J-Texas wrote on Fri, 31 August 2007 12:36

chrisj wrote on Fri, 31 August 2007 01:18

IMP_14_Jason_Thompson: Snarly guitars. I like how they're voiced, and the track swings. Drums have a neat thump and pop. All in all this is very likeable Smile

CHRISj - My mix must be perfect for you because I am convinced, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you have some mid frequency hearing loss, a screw loose, and a possible coke (and/or) speed addiction.  Laughing   Laughing  Laughing  Laughing


Maybe I have a sense of what RAWWWWKS, you're a genius, and everybody else is just wrong  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing

Actually, I _am_ a drug addict- just a clean one. I've been clean for like fifteen years or so. Obviously it hasn't made my mixing any calmer Wink I still go for the screw-loose-and-fulla-meth sound, I just need to learn how to make it more likeable.

I don't think I have mid hearing loss so much as I just often want to go for a howling, incredibly sonorous penetrating sound. I almost NEVER want a sound to be flat or to sit there sounding balanced. I want everything to be unbalanced and crammed with energy, and some of the sounds I've always liked a lot have been really narrowly focussed in the context of the mix. It becomes a question of whether you can get away with it. For instance the non-lead guitars in my mix were doing the same obnoxious things as the lead, but with them, it doesn't annoy as much because the frequency ranges are different. With the lead, the area I picked to load energy into was a specially ouchy one, which was my mistake even if there was room there in the mix. I wanted to pull that guitar down a lot in volume and still have it cut, but the price was too high.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: J-Texas on August 31, 2007, 02:11:32 pm
chrisj wrote on Fri, 31 August 2007 13:05

I've been clean for like fifteen years or so.


That's AWESOME dude.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: M Carter on August 31, 2007, 02:18:30 pm
Yeah chris -

Congrats on that.

What kind of stuff are you using for a reference when it comes to what you want?  What it oft sounds like is that you have the sound in your head but have a hard time getting the big picture to happen.  

Are you talking out of control like early proto punk stuff or like 90's hardcore?  The proof with a lot of that stuff is in the pudding - if it ain't there to begin with, it's easy to over do it and chase your tail trying to put it there,
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: j.hall on August 31, 2007, 02:47:16 pm
chrisj wrote on Fri, 31 August 2007 01:18

 thanks J for having the balls to put up a stage of your work we normally would never hear Smile




hey, i just felt that the mod of this forum was obligated to submit something.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: Adam Miller on August 31, 2007, 03:36:55 pm
M Carter wrote on Fri, 31 August 2007 16:52

Adam -

It's pretty amazing some of the shit we can't notice until someone else tells us.  


Tell me about it! In the direct aftermath of completing a mix, I usually think I'm god's gift to mixing. After about three days, the effect has usually faded to something along the lines of 'christ, what was I thinking?'. Oddly enough, the problems I hear with my own work are almost never the same as the problems everyone else hears with it. Oh well. Still, we soldier on, hopefully improving with every mix!

Legacy looks amazing BTW, not sure why I've never checked out the link before.

Cheers,

Ad
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: M Carter on August 31, 2007, 03:52:54 pm
Adam -

Thanks for the kind words and come check us out when you're in the states next!

Matt
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: southboundloco on August 31, 2007, 11:00:01 pm
Quote:

IMP14southboundlocoprint1: hey, compelling vocals! The song itself just feels generically big, perhaps because of the distortions of image I talked about with Boedo's, but for some reason the vocals are really clicking on this one. I wonder how much of that has to do with the radical hard panning? For some reason when the guy's yelling out of the side speaker, he feels so very immediate. I'd be interested to know the signal chain on the verse vocals in this mix. Part of it is surely how hot the vox are, because they're REALLY REALLY hot. If everything was as hot, the mix would suck, but instead it's a loud mix in which the vocals just blow everything else away...


i rode the vox tracks on this one all through out the song(hehe with some mouse gymnastics hehe  Very Happy )anyweyz if i could remember it right my vox chain is dynamic EQ-desser-compressor used as leveler- EQ to shape the sound-final compression to make it upfront...and this is being sent to a HARMONIZER,longplate,and delay(delays are on only during the parts where there's a lot of stuff is going on, gotta give that vox space on the loud/busy parts...
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: chrisj on August 31, 2007, 11:50:38 pm
What's the dynamic EQ doing?

The stuff I grew up on was like Aqualung, Traffic's 'Last Exit'... lot of incredibly midrangey stuff. I had Thick As A Brick, Low Spark of High Heeled Boys etc (much wider-range) but the mixes didn't feel right to me when they were that widerange, somehow.

Very little reference to, or interest in, modern-day mixes. Mixing started to die for me around 1980 and never recovered Smile it took electronic music to show me how some of the things you could do could be pretty cool, really. Still there's a part of me that finds that SM57-in-a-bedroom sound to be the most immediate. With Steve Winwood on old traffic records, sometimes you couldn't even understand what the hell he was singing, but it had vibe for days. So much midrange...
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: M Carter on September 01, 2007, 12:30:43 am
chrisj -

the thing with those records is that they never reach the point of going overboard.  the only direction those records make you turn the volume is UP.  It's just a suggestion, but you may want to lay off of the midrange tweakage for a while.  It seems like you zero in on a frequency and just turn that shit up til it hurts.  You don't really have to do that - midrange is there.  The mid 90's metal trend of scooping the midrange is dead, more or less.  

Mid range is a pretty dangerous frequency - it can screw up an otherwise listener friendly mix.  Engage the listener, but don't piss them off.

Not that I know what I'm talking about, it's just an observation.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: chrisj on September 01, 2007, 03:42:10 am
Hey, I'm listening. Thank you for saying it. Smile
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: J-Texas on September 01, 2007, 09:21:46 am
M Carter wrote on Fri, 31 August 2007 23:30

chrisj -

the thing with those records is that they never reach the point of going overboard.  the only direction those records make you turn the volume is UP.  It's just a suggestion, but you may want to lay off of the midrange tweakage for a while.  It seems like you zero in on a frequency and just turn that shit up til it hurts.  You don't really have to do that - midrange is there.  The mid 90's metal trend of scooping the midrange is dead, more or less.  

Mid range is a pretty dangerous frequency - it can screw up an otherwise listener friendly mix.  Engage the listener, but don't piss them off.

Not that I know what I'm talking about, it's just an observation.



The man I love to argue with... Matt Carter.

What about The Who records? "Don't Get Fooled Again" is raunchy and it hurts and I want to turn it up louder and louder. That's what this IMP did for me. I'M NOT COMPARING MY SKILLS TO PETE TOWNSEND FOLKS. My mids didn't bother me though. It was cool low vol 'cuz you could here everything, but it rocked your  speakers if you turned it up. If my drums were there it would have been great for me. "No One Knows" by Queens is newer, not so robust version of that.

What I do agree with... sort of. (ChrisJ) Lay off the overboard mid tweaking. Find that amount that cuts. Instead of going with obnoxious to find that rock place... use volume and compression to get your point across. It can still jam and cut without making ears bleed.

Oh Matt Carter, you're my hero.  Very Happy I'll be here to butt heads anytime you want. Perhaps if I make it up to AES in October, I can come see your killer digs man. I would LOVE to tour that joint man.

JT
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: southboundloco on September 01, 2007, 10:31:13 am
Quote:

What's the dynamic EQ doing?
it helps me set the over-all eq that i want for the vox.and pretty much controls/maintains it from going "honky"/nasal sounding in some parts or sounding harsh in some parts i.e. choruses...
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: southboundloco on September 01, 2007, 10:32:53 am
pretty much maintaining that eq curve that i want all through out
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: M Carter on September 01, 2007, 03:00:05 pm
Jason -

Yeah - that's what I felt about yours as well, was that it wasn't my cup of pie, but it definitely worked as a mix.  Everything pretty much had the same general tone and vibe.  

I'm digging how the more we do these things, the better everyone's feedback seems to get in terms of critical listening ability.  

By all means, if you make it to AES, hit me up!

Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: ATOR on September 01, 2007, 04:15:56 pm
M Carter wrote on Sat, 01 September 2007 21:00

 

I'm digging how the more we do these things, the better everyone's feedback seems to get in terms of critical listening ability.  




In the end listening is the most important skill. Hearing what potential lies in the recordings and what needs to be done to get there.

That's what I like best about the IMPs, listening to 20+ versions of what can also be done with the same sources. For me it's a real ear opener, every IMP again that there are so many different sounds hidden in the same recordings.

Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: Soul_Fire on September 01, 2007, 08:43:08 pm
Hi all,

Just wanted to say thanks for the comments so far. I agree that the guitars were way too far up in the mix, I'm going to have a listen over the weekend and see if pulling them back a bit helps pull everything else together.

I think I might have fallen into the trap of mixing with my eyes... Recently started using a spectrum analyser to help evaluate my mixing (as my room sounds so bad). I really should get my room sorted! I did keep referencing to another track but I guess I ended up way off somewhere!

Will try to get something down about everyones mixes next week, It's great to listen to what other people have done!

Thanks again!
Soul Fire.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: chrisj on September 02, 2007, 12:11:34 am
J-Texas wrote on Sat, 01 September 2007 09:21

What I do agree with... sort of. (ChrisJ) Lay off the overboard mid tweaking. Find that amount that cuts. Instead of going with obnoxious to find that rock place... use volume and compression to get your point across. It can still jam and cut without making ears bleed.


I think what I'm learning is, I like really high-Q midrange boosts and they don't bug me but they really offend some people on a positively visceral level. At the same time sometimes I can use them to get what I want out of guitars and other people dig it. I think it has a fair amount to do with the Logic channel EQ, which I thought was a nasty way to do it- compare with equally obnoxious EQ behavior on the previous IMP and misused in a lot of places (like drums and lead vox) but my ResEQ plugin doesn't get the same grating quality, it just delivers the same 'you meant to do that?' boost effect.

Maybe it's like a mastering stylee thing, in which I can get the obnoxious boost all set up in the right spot but then I have to chill it out until it's almost not there? It's tough- often it would be easier if I could rely on the performances to give the effect, and maybe that's the problem right there, I'm lying with EQ. But when I have it clicking I LIKE the result I'm getting- dug having the previous one be critted as 'ugly but it sounds like it's on fire'. I guess the next thing is to find that point where it's no longer ugly but still gives the effect...
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: Devin Knutson on September 02, 2007, 02:40:54 am
chrisj wrote on Thu, 30 August 2007 23:18

IMP14_DevinK_03: Wildly out of step with modern mix sounds Wink



Quite possibly the second-best compliment ever given to me.

Seriously.

(the best one is a whole 'nother thread)

Thank you.



...




I'm still so far out of town that I can actually see the Milky Way right now.  I'm on a wireless Sprint PCS card in EVDO mode, which has been spotty at best, and distinctly dial-up like...  so the few times I've tried to listen this week, the endless "buffering..." messages and time-outs have gotten the better of me.

I do intend to respond and post my own thoughts this coming week.

Thanks all!

Carry on...

    - Devin
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: j.hall on September 03, 2007, 06:01:14 pm
man, i haven't even had time to listen to a single mix.

working three records at the same time. (tracking drums/producing/directing overdubs)  

luckily the drummer today was solid and cut 9 songs in 4 hours.  i actually get to see my family for a bit.
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: Greg Dixon on September 03, 2007, 06:54:22 pm
j.hall wrote on Tue, 04 September 2007 08:01

man, i haven't even had time to listen to a single mix.

working three records at the same time. (tracking drums/producing/directing overdubs)  

luckily the drummer today was solid and cut 9 songs in 4 hours.  i actually get to see my family for a bit.



I'm only finishing up two projects and just started another..... mind you one of them is for a carols DVD..... 65 minutes of music, 55 tracks of audio..... make a great imp. Drums, bass, percussion, guitar, piano, vibraphone, synth, oboe, 2 trumpets, 2 trombones, string quartet, 5 singers, choir and pipe organ. Recorded in the Adelaide Town Hall, South Australia .... lots and lots of bleed..... and sometimes all playing at once. It's been fun. Very Happy
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: Baddo on September 03, 2007, 07:40:27 pm
Adam Miller wrote on Fri, 31 August 2007 12:05

...My first impression is that you might have some kind of monitoring issue- too much lowend? Your mix sounds a bit thin in the bass and lower mids,...


Yes, this seems to be the consensus for my IMP 14 mix.
I went back and review the mix and yes, the mix does sound thin in comparison. Truth is I had my sub badly calibrated, and I had moved some switches on my monitors to mess around for this mix.

I'll post my reviews now:



Jason Thompson

Great start! Guitars sound nice but kind of honky when the vocals enter.
Cymbals sound great. Love the 2nd chorus.
the only thing that sounds odd to me was the saturation on the last phrase ("why do I matter to you")
All in all great mix.


BLloyd

I like the stereo play on the clean guitars.
The mix sounds very clean, a tad brittle on the cymbals but good. Snare sounds quite natural as does the kick drum, cool.
I gotta ask Why didn't you spread the guitars? Were you going for the "band jamming in the room with me" concept? Sounds cool though.


Ryst

Guitars sound dark but good. I'd like the drums to be more upfront.
Vocals sound good.
I like the delay on the piano for the bridge, interesting. And the drums sound great here.


iCombs

woohoo fatness!
Vocals sound a little sibilant but good, drums sound punchy, I 'd like the snare a little louder though, and I'm not thrilled about the toms.
Great definition on the guitars.


Audio-Geek

Phaser coolness on the intro. This mix sounds a little boomy, but the vocals are great.

The snare sounds ...different. Cool though.


Briefcasemanx

Cool, this sounds powerful.  I'm thinking the guitars are either a little too bright or a little too high because I'm missing the punch of the drums. The snare sounds snappy which is cool. Cymbals lack tone, which is pretty common but I don't like.
Overall very in-yer-face but I'd revise the balance, other than that it's cool and modern.


ChrisJ

Shit, this sounds biased. I don't like the sound of the Solo guitar and the crashes; the solo guitar was too nasal and the crashes constantly distract me form the vocals. Rhythm guitars sound cool though. Not my type.


Darkhorseporter

Ok, this ones a little harsh for my taste, so I turned it down. Once turned down balance seems ok, guitars sound heavy and the snare is ok. Vocals sound a little thin.
What I'd like to hear louder is the kick drum. I'm not feeling it kick my stomach. That last vocal phrase sounds great.


DevinK

I like the snare sound here, vocals sound cool too, I don't like the drums ambiance though, it contrasts with the added verbs and delay added to the voices. I see you had some fun with editing didn't ya? well, sounds good, I've listened to this song like a million times already and those little edits add spice. I like the kick drum boom verb on the bridge.
EQ-wise sounds a little biased. But cool mix ideas.


HLabb

I love these guitars, drums sound again snappy and the kick sounds thick. Great.  Lead vocals sounds solid, backgrounds are a little soft for my taste. I'd have done something different to the drum sample break, but this is ok.
I like what you did for the bridge, sounds very nice, and it worked emotionally (at least for me) -Did you added a low thud at the start of the last chorus?


MacBraddy

This one sounds a little bright for my taste. I like the arrangement edits you did.
Vocals sound a little middy and the guitars sound a too pointy. I noticed some crackles in the bridge but I think these where on the source tracks weren't they?
The Backing vocals on the last chorus sound refreshing.


McSnare

Wow great snare!  The mix is a tad lo-mid heavy but that's not really a problem. While the snare is cool I think it's a little loud. Guitars and bass sound meshed and function as a whole which is good. There's lot's of space for the vocals which sometimes is difficult. I noticed something wrong with the compressor release on the piano part, a little distracting but nothing to agonize on. I really wish your kick drum sounded better (or maybe just louder).


Soul Fire

Ok, a little bright for my taste. Guitars are a little airy, and I miss a little more definition on the bass guitar. Balance seems fine but I'd like the drums to be more present. I'm missing more punch.


Ator

I like the power of this one, good guitars and the bass is great !  The snare sounds strange sometimes but sounds great most of the time. That "Part of you"  and "why do I matter" lines of the backing vox are a little loud for my taste. I dig the piano sound.


Maxim

Mmmh. Not thrilled about the delay on the guitars nor about the sound. The sampled breaks sound great and that in and out motion on the arpeggiated guitar sounds cool too. Drums are a little low for my taste.
The bridge sounds pretty interesting; I like those distorted echoes.
This is a pretty different mix, not at all like what you would expect for a rock song.


Osumosan

Wow, this one's pretty squashed, sounds cool but the squashing makes the cymbals tiresome. Snares sounds cool, guitars sound cool too and the vocals sound a little thin, but there's good intelligibility. I would have liked the bass guitar to have more presence, I can hear what it's doing alright but "more presence" is my kind of bass, ala Chris Squire.
Bridge works, at this moment I'm used to the squashing so I can pay attention to the song, good job in there.


SingSing

Right off the bat I like this mix. Great guitars and drums. The bass isn't that great though.
Vocals sound a little thin but that's just my preference. Hi-hat sizzle tends to get weary after a while. I like what you did with the vocals on the bridge.
Nice mix. Interesting ending, but I like the original better.


Adam Miller

Ok, I like this mix, it simply sounds great. Really like what you did with the sampled breaks.
Great vocal sounds, drums sound great too, I'd like a tad more kick though.
I feel you crippled the 2nd verse with that edit, as I think this band features these abrupt style changes.
Great bridge, very emotional.


Boedoconstrictor

Sounds balanced but a little rough, ie: that delay on the verse was a little too loud. Guitars sound cool maybe a tad tamed. Aha! more polish on the bridge. Sounds good.
I'd say, I missed a little reverb on the snare, that's the only real critique I have for you, as it is now it makes the kit sound small. Everything else sounds good for my taste.


Fantomas

Lot's of reverb on the snare in this one, I'm not buying your kick though, too scooped maybe. Vocals sound great and guitars sound fantastic. Sometimes things sound a little detached, that's not good, but it's not fatal either. I lost interest on the bridge.


JHall

I like this mix, great snare, chunky guitars, nice vocals. I'd have liked a bigger kick drum though. I'm thinking the vocal echo might be a little loud.
I like the arrangement mutes on the bridge. -edit: Now that I know you didn't finish this mix I'm pretty sure it would have sounded killer if you had.


Southboundloco

I like the snare, and vocals. Cymbals sound thin though. Guitars are cool.
I like what you did for the sampled breaks, but I'm not sure about the bridge.
Very present mix.


M Carter

wow that was a big edit. Nice snare and vocals; snare is a little loud though.
Guitars sound cool but a little harsh.
I'm not sure about the arrangement edits. It seems to me you oversimplified the song, that is not always good, as it in turn makes the song predictable. But that may be just me.

And that would be "it".
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: Adam Miller on September 05, 2007, 04:00:47 pm
Baddo wrote on Tue, 04 September 2007 00:40

Adam Miller

Ok, I like this mix, it simply sounds great. Really like what you did with the sampled breaks.
Great vocal sounds, drums sound great too...


You are clearly a man of impeccable taste and judgement. Ta!
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: Baddo on September 05, 2007, 04:29:49 pm
hehehe
Laughing
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: J-Texas on September 05, 2007, 11:42:33 pm
TELL HER TO MOVE THAT FRIGGIN' GUITAR MAN!  Mad
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: macbraddy on September 06, 2007, 04:52:31 pm
Now that I've finally got a second -- Thank you all!
These things are always highly educational.

*/post edited to concede to jtexas's point below -- sorry gang -- i intended no negativity/*
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: J-Texas on September 06, 2007, 05:11:38 pm
macbraddy wrote on Thu, 06 September 2007 15:52

J-Texas wrote on Fri, 31 August 2007 -- (of chrisj's reviews) -- 11:36

I am convinced, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you have some mid frequency hearing loss, a screw loose...


Even still -- Thanks for your kind review (i think), chrisj. In fact -- Now that I've finally got a second -- Thank you all!
These things are always highly educational.




Dude. Don't take something I said and make it into your own meaning. ChrisJ knows that I was referring to his lead guitar tone and we had fun with it. I don't need you twisting my words. I won't get into an argument about this... so don't reply.

If you were trying to jump in on the joke... well, he, hee, hoo, hoo. That's the bad thing about typing stuff like this. There's no emotion. Why do you think they make emoticons?




Embarassed Hey bro. I'm not too big to apologize. It's easy to read into things differently when you're looking at it. I've had a bad couple of days and you just got the brunt of it. Well, I feel better... how 'bout you? Very Happy I realized it after I did it. Rest assured foot is out of mouth... didn't taste all that bad, must be the foot salve I use frequently. At first glance it made me look like I was doggin' Chris and his hearing you know? (which I'm still not sure about... the hearing that is)   Rolling Eyes
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: j.hall on September 06, 2007, 10:46:25 pm
let's stay on topic.........

sorry i haven't done reviews.  i still haven't heard any mixes.

Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: J-Texas on September 06, 2007, 11:11:13 pm
j.hall wrote on Thu, 06 September 2007 21:46

let's stay on topic.........

sorry i haven't done reviews.  i still haven't heard any mixes.




10-4 Boss. You're right. You need to do your crits. What kind of moderator are you anyway?   Shocked
Title: Re: IMP14 discussion
Post by: j.hall on September 07, 2007, 01:09:13 pm
apparently i'm a slacker moderator recently........

i can't buy a day off right now....which is a great problem to have