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R/E/P => R/E/P Archives => j. hall => Topic started by: j.hall on April 21, 2004, 04:14:51 pm

Title: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on April 21, 2004, 04:14:51 pm
this thread is a continuation from the "recpit" thread found here

day 10 we sheet rocked the machine room ceiling and walls with two layers of 1/2" rock.  finished running electrical, mounted the sub panel and built a palet (on locking casters) for the 97lb 5kva isolation transformer.

Day 10 Front Wall

Day 10 Sub Panel

Day 10 Transformer
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on April 27, 2004, 03:05:16 pm
took me a while to get this pic up

we actually did this work wednesday of last week. and have since moved on to other jobs i haven't taken pics of.

day 11:

two layers of 1/2" sheet rock on the ceiling.....i now can honestly give my full respect to full time sheet rockers.  this is brutal work, and i ate enough sheet rock dust to hold me over till breakfast the next day!!!

with out a roto zip this job would be pure agony!

Day 11 Ceiling

since then, we've done two layers of mud and tape....need to sand and continuing mudding.  and i'm almost done with all the caulking.

Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: NelsonL on May 01, 2004, 02:45:10 am

Day 10 Transformer[/quote]

Damn dude, your shop has some "big iron!"
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on May 03, 2004, 10:31:10 am
day 12:

damn, day 12?  if i had more time to work on this thing, i'd have been done weeks ago. hahahahaha

all right, i've finished all the caulking.  and all the fiber board is up.  i bought some foam board nails that come with plastic washers installed.  i cut half the washer off so i could get themm up close to the stud.  i sued these to hold the fiber board in place.

we cut the fiber board to fit very tight in the stud spaces and probably didn't need the nails, but we figured, might as well have some insurance.  i'm not going to finish this space off just to have a piece of fiber board work itself loose and  render that trap useless.

if any of you are doing a project like this, i can get you specifics on what we used and how we installed it.

note:  since i have electrical boxes in some stud spaces, they need to air tight as well.  i caulked all the way around them, and i caulked all the entry holes into them.  EVERYTHING is sealed off.  like i said, i'm not going to all this effort just to skimp on one little thing that will end up creating problems later.

i'm WAY over budget, but there's no turning back now.  it has to get done, and it HAS to be right.

Day 12 Front Wall

Day 12 Back Wall

some spaces were particularily hard to work around and we had to get creative with how we cut the fiber board.  if anyone wants some close up details of any of that just let me know.

one thing to note, we used 8 full sheets (4'x10') of 7 pound density 1" thick fiber board to do this space.  about 5 sheets in our razor knives started having trouble.  they look fine, but have been dulled down.  you need a good sharp knife to cut this stuff.  it cuts like butter witha fresh blade, cuts like a plastic knife on a steak with a dull blade.
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: chachi on May 07, 2004, 01:57:32 pm
we're doing this right now too.  are you doing your own electrical?  i feel like i could run the romex, but are you guys doing more than that yourselves?

oh, and i'm new here, so sorry if you've talked about this before, but what's the transformer for?

thanks,
alex
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on May 07, 2004, 02:28:08 pm
hit the link at the top of this thread to go back to the "recpit archive" and scan through the beginning of this renovation, the electrical issues are covered pretty heavily in there.

basically, the transformer merely isolates my audio gear from any line noise that might happen from the house.

yes, i'm doing all the work myself, the two guys helping me are doing some of it too.

currently i have one more wire to run (ground wire from my grounding rod to my main service panel) and then the whole thing will be ready for hook up.

i worked for an electrician a few summers in high school and then i did low volt work (alarms, CATV, phones, CCTV) for a few years after that.

doing this myself is no big deal.  if you don't have much knowledge of electrical service, you should hire a certified electrician to do all the hook up for you.

BTW, all circuits that audio gear plugs into must be home run back to your service panel or sub panel.  other circuits don't matter.

hope this helps,
j.hall
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: chachi on May 07, 2004, 04:10:22 pm
awesome thred.  what do the transformers run?  

thanks,
alex
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on May 07, 2004, 04:46:13 pm
oh man......

how much current do you want?

my trannie will do a max of 40 amps, can be hooked up at 240, or 120, and can do step down and isolation.

i bought it on ebay for 350, cost 60 bucks to ship, and new it probably cost 1200 bucks.

you really have to know what you need, and know what to look for if you choose to hit ebay.  but once you get some research done, ebay is where it's at.

just make sure it's been tested....."the david riddle company" does big power stuff and they are on ebay, that's who i bought from....and they were great to deal with.  went the extra mile to make sure they were selling me the right thing

at 97 pounds, who wants to get the wrong thing.....
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on May 11, 2004, 04:40:44 pm
no pics this time....just figured i'd update the current status

found a really cool product for minimizing sanding of mudd dust

5 gal. buck that hooks up to a shop vac and attaches to a sander.  put a screen on it, kick on the shop vac, and it sucks it into the bucket as you sand......AWESOME

priming the staircase paneling and hallway, and sanding the last layer of mud and prepping for texturing the ceiling.

after that, clean up, and start hanging the 1/4" birch plywood.
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: floodstage on May 13, 2004, 08:20:28 am
Where did you find that?  I've been keeping an eye out for one ever since I saw a contractor use one 3 years ago, but haven't found one.
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on May 13, 2004, 09:10:04 am
i'm not sure.  i'm doing this whole renovation with my dad, he brought it over a week ago and said he found it some place and grabbed it.

i'll ask him and let you know.
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: Beezoboy on May 20, 2004, 11:57:18 am
Once again. . .

This just shows us how smart our dads really are.

If I need:

-Financial advice
-Motivation
-Home improvement advice
-Cooking
-Gardening
-and tons of other stuff

I ask my dad.

Beez

PS. Looking great J!!!
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on May 20, 2004, 02:53:02 pm
i grew up "holding the light" as i call it

working on cars, plumbing, electrical, paint, framing.....seriously, you name it, he can do it.....most everything with a good level of quality and skill

so, i pretty much held the light and learned.....in high school i was allowed to start tearing into cars and the like

now we just do all these projects together cause it goes so much faster with two people that don't need to do any hand holding.

if we could have gone at the basement every day full time, probably would have had it done in three weeks

Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: Fibes on May 20, 2004, 03:24:26 pm
For ceilings I like to use the dust sucker too... hahahah except J. couldn't get it to work. J.?

Glad your dad got cleaned up after the hopper mishap.
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on May 20, 2004, 04:27:21 pm
now you're using our personal friendship and phone calls against me......hahahahaha

yeah, i couldn't get the vaccuum set right.  the sanding "handle" kept sucking itself to the ceiling make it just about impossible to move it.  i sanded about a 4 sq foot area with NO DUST on the floor or me.....but just couldn't take it.....

maybe my shop vac was too strong, i don't know.

plus i didn't have poll attachment for the sanding vaccuum, that sucked!!!

got two coats of ceiling paint up last night and means......the ceiling is done

FINALLY

it's been the bane of my existance for two months now
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: drew on May 25, 2004, 08:52:39 am
more pics!!! if you can.
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on May 25, 2004, 09:57:09 am
as requested:

day 13:

i've already typed about it, but i shot a few pics anyway, and i'll post em

they are sort of boring but oh well

ceiling has two coats fo paint, machine room ceiling, hall way, and staircase are the same.  machine room walls, hallway, and staircase are primed and ready for paint.

Day 13 Ceiling

Day 13 Stairs

Day 14:
more like a half day (last night to be exact)
we bought all the paneling, and stocked it in the garage on saturday.  sunday i started painting trim in the hallway.

last night we got the entire south wall paneled, and electrical boxes cut out and caulked.  we have reached the point where i've started repeating in my head......"i sure hope this works"

Day 14 South Wall

you can see the trim color a tiny bit in the hall way door jam.

here is what we did to get an air tight seal on a large piece of paneling that stretches multiple stud spaces.....

cut the sheet to fit first (measure twice, cut once.....this stuff is expenssive)

hold it up and check the fit, make any adjustments needed.

mark the studs on the floor and ceiling.....this just makes things easier, especially when you can't afford to miss, and ruin the integrity of the air tight seal.

next, you pull the sheet away, and caulk the studs.  i was pretty generous with the caulk as you can't see how well it seals up the paneling, and i'm not runing a thousand nails up and down the paneling to press it on super tight.

put the paneling back up and get it pressed in and smoothed out tight.

"hang it" but running one nail in the upper two corners.  this allows one guy to let go, and the other to start nailing

side note:
we tested the trim nailer on a scrap piece of paneling to ensure we had the proper pressure and nails for the job.
the trim nailer was too strong, and the nails were too thin
the braid nailer was the same.  we ended up using 5/8 finishing staples as they did the best job holding the paneling with out ripping through it.

as i attached the paneling to the wall, i would be "smoothing it" and pressing it against the caulked stud with one hand and shooting in staples with the other.  working my way from upper left to lower right, or vice versa.  i figured this just helped get it hung nice and tight.

we drilled a 1/8 pilot hole in the center of each electrical box.  while i was working on whatever and my dad wasn't cutting the next piece of paneling, he'd use the roto-zip and cut out the boxes.  after that, i'd come along behind him and suck out the saw dust and caulk up the inside edges of the box, where it meets the paneling.

should i be posting pics of "while we're working"?

i just take pics at the end of each major job.  didn't think of showing the steps until i just typed all that.
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on May 25, 2004, 09:57:47 am
as requested:

day 13:

i've already typed about it, but i shot a few pics anyway, and i'll post em

they are sort of boring but oh well

ceiling has two coats fo paint, machine room ceiling, hall way, and staircase are the same.  machine room walls, hallway, and staircase are primed and ready for paint.

the ceiling pic below is unpainted.  just a pic of the textured ceiling.

Day 13 Ceiling

Day 13 Stairs

Day 14:
more like a half day (last night to be exact)
we bought all the paneling, and stocked it in the garage on saturday.  sunday i started painting trim in the hallway.

last night we got the entire south wall paneled, and electrical boxes cut out and caulked.  we have reached the point where i've started repeating in my head......"i sure hope this works"

Day 14 South Wall

you can see the trim color a tiny bit in the hall way door jam.

here is what we did to get an air tight seal on a large piece of paneling that stretches multiple stud spaces.....

cut the sheet to fit first (measure twice, cut once.....this stuff is expensive)

hold it up and check the fit, make any adjustments needed.

mark the studs on the floor and ceiling.....this just makes things easier, especially when you can't afford to miss, and ruin the integrity of the air tight seal.

next, you pull the sheet away, and caulk the studs.  i was pretty generous with the caulk as you can't see how well it seals up the paneling, and i'm not running a thousand nails up and down the paneling to press it on super tight.

put the paneling back up and get it pressed in and smoothed out tight.

"hang it" but running one nail in the upper two corners.  this allows one guy to let go, and the other to start nailing

side note:
we tested the trim nailer on a scrap piece of paneling to ensure we had the proper pressure and nails for the job.
the trim nailer was too strong, and the nails were too thin
the braid nailer was the same.  we ended up using 5/8 finishing staples as they did the best job holding the paneling with out ripping through it.

as i attached the paneling to the wall, i would be "smoothing it" and pressing it against the caulked stud with one hand and shooting in staples with the other.  working my way from upper left to lower right, or vice versa.  i figured this just helped get it hung nice and tight.

we drilled a 1/8 pilot hole in the center of each electrical box.  while i was working on whatever and my dad wasn't cutting the next piece of paneling, he'd use the roto-zip and cut out the boxes.  after that, i'd come along behind him and suck out the saw dust and caulk up the inside edges of the box, where it meets the paneling.

should i be posting pics of "while we're working"?

i just take pics at the end of each major job.  didn't think of showing the steps until i just typed all that.
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on May 25, 2004, 10:00:27 am
we're using Oak paneling BTW.

i wanted birch....but what they had SUCKED, the pine was all gone, and the oak looked really nice.....i don't have time at this point to wait.
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on May 27, 2004, 11:29:40 am
Day 15:

diffusor panels framed out, 703 cut to fit and installed, and 1/4" peg board cut and drilled out randomly with various size hole saws

Day 15 Diffusor 1

Day 15 Diffusor 2
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: xonlocust on May 27, 2004, 07:09:53 pm
hey j.-

working hard, or hardly working - huh buddy?

sorry, i couldn't resist!! looking great!
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on May 27, 2004, 11:51:54 pm
xonlocust wrote on Thu, 27 May 2004 18:09

hey j.-

working hard, or hardly working - huh buddy?

sorry, i couldn't resist!! looking great!



you shouldn't be talking....."Mr. i'll have my room done before you do"

i should have bet money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on June 01, 2004, 10:25:07 am
OK....much work was done over the long weekend

Day 16:

north wall paneled, and various other things cleaned up and taken care of.

Day 16 North Wall 1

Day 16 North Wall 2

Day 16 North Wall 3

day 17:

it's all starting to blur together....hahaha

we finished all the the paneling (which is a two person job)

from there, my dad started doing trim work, and i started re-building the diffusor panels (the previous ones were built quickly, and they weren't square).  i used scrap wood that was cheap and i wanted to use something better that would be more sturdy and easier to work with (pine).

Day 17 Front Wall

Day 17 South Wall

Day 17 Cable Pass-Thru

the one corner looks like it has chicken pox, the nail gun had a slight malfunction on us..........nothing a little putty won't cure.

Day 18:

i finished off the diffusor panels, and i'm much happier with them

and we bought all the rest of the trim......we are closing in on the end.

Day 18 Diffusors

Day 18 Diffusors 2

Day 18 Trim

Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: drumsound on June 01, 2004, 05:05:53 pm
Did you do the math for the difusers or is it a randon thing?
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on June 02, 2004, 10:30:33 am
what part are you talking about?

the surface area

or the size and placement of the holes?

surface area is based on the listening postion and the stud spacing of the walls at the listening position.....i only need them where my ears are going to be, and i need them to line up with the studs....

the holes are just random as i wanted them to diffuse and absorb random high frequencies....hence the peg board to begin with.  i used 1" up to 2 1/2" hole saws just randomly drilled from there.
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on June 02, 2004, 11:38:10 am
Day 19:

applied one coat of urethane to the front wall, north wall, and all trim that will not be painted and needs to match paneling.

i used a high grade, low odor, oil based urethane with a 4" stain brush that wasn't cheap.  urethane was from a company called "zar" and went on very nicely, and i wasn't too high when finished.....hahahaha

Day 19 Front Wall

Day 19 North Wall
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: drew on June 05, 2004, 09:02:24 pm
how many coats you gonna do?  cool idea btw.
drew
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on June 07, 2004, 09:18:59 am
two coats

and their both done

the real answer was, "until it's nice and smooth and i'm happy"

but that ended up being two coats as the urethane is pretty high quality and i used a really fine grit (320) sand paper to sand down the first coat

then we used tack clothes to wipe up all the dust (much better then just brushing it off as that just kicks it up in the air)

got a few more pics to post once i find time to get them loaded up and converted down to a smaller size.
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on June 10, 2004, 10:40:06 am
quick update

i'm painting like a fool

sick of breathing paint fumes.....

no pics, i think i might save the pics till it's done

at this point, the finishing touches are being applied and it might be cooler to just show you guys what it looks like done

instead of pics of trim painted, then walls, then fabric going up......

tell me if you want pics and i'll think about it...HA
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on June 15, 2004, 02:29:03 pm
i lied.....two more pics

day 20: (if that's even accurate anymore)

we fabric wrapped the back wall, put up the ceiling trim and baseboard, hung the machine room door.....

Day 20 Front Wall

Day 20 Back Wall

Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: Gregg Seibert on June 20, 2004, 11:59:19 am
J.
  How did you seal off the recessed ceiling lights?  Won't those just allow the bass to pass right on through to the upstairs?  Just curious.  If this was covered on some earlier thread, sorry for the interruption/  Thanks!
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on June 21, 2004, 12:51:56 pm
never an interruption

this thread is meant to be interactive

didn't seal them off at all

not to worried about sound leakage

my home was built in 1947.  it was built very well, but it was obviously built out of wood and plaster.

i can't possibly do anything to stop the sound from going upstairs with wood construction

two layers of sheet rock was to merely "help out"

i decided to not even mess with the can lights after reading all the lit on them and seeing that heat gain from the can is a pretty serious issue

Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: floodstage on June 21, 2004, 02:59:57 pm
To answer the lighting/sealing the ceiling question .....

If you want acoustically sealed lighting cans:

1) Buy cans that are sealed (airtite) AND rated for direct insulation contact.

If you don't get cans that are rated for direct insulation contact and you pack the insulation on anyway, the fire department will be visiting you.  Do NOT f**k around with this detail!  

BTW, Home Depot/Lowes/etc normally do not stock cans that are sealed and rated, you normally have to get them from a "real" lighting supply house.

While you are buying the cans, also buy gaskets sets for them.  The gaskets are thin vinyl w/adhesive (peal and stick - like a white bumper sticker) and are not very expensive (less than a buck).  The gaskets bridge the gap between the drywall and the can.

2) Install the cans.

3) Pack the insulation around them tightly, behind and around, no voids.  I prefer rock wool insulation for this job.  It's meant for sound proofing and it will not ever catch on fire.  (fiberglass insulation will burn if you heat it enough, I know by 1st hand experience!)

4) Install drywall and finish it, taking care to cut the holes for the can tight.  (A Rotozip is worth it's weight in Latinum for this job).

5) Install gaskets.  

6) install lighting trim rings which will cover the gasket.



This method isn't as good as a ceiling w/no perforations, but it works WAY better than standard cans.
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on June 21, 2004, 03:44:00 pm
home depot had a variety of cans when i was there

they had sealed cans in stock all the way down to "don't put anything around this can EVER"

i bought cans that allowed standard 100 watt lightbulbs to be used with insulation (R19) placed no closer then 24" on either side.

this was good enough for what i was doing and they cost about 6 bucks each

the sealed versions were about 18 a piece and i just didn't need that sort of light.  why spend the cash on something that isn't going to bring any benefit to the game

the hardwood floor of my living directly above is going to (and does) act like a giant diaphragm no matter what can light i put in.
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: floodstage on June 22, 2004, 10:01:38 am
Wasn't suggesting you do it differently, J, just explaining how to seal the cans for the the person who asked how to do it in case they had need for the info.

Carry on!
(and while you're at it, carry that BIG right on in, and wire that sucka up!)
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on June 22, 2004, 10:46:10 am
floodstage wrote on Tue, 22 June 2004 09:01


(and while you're at it, carry that BIG right on in, and wire that sucka up!)


yeah, that will be a lot of fun....let me tell you

i'm dreading moving the tape deck

UUUGGGGGG

Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on June 24, 2004, 04:27:46 pm
no pics....just a quick update

all the trim has been painted, two coats, in some places three

i'm swamped mixing a few things here and there for the next few days and won't have time to tape off the hallway and staircase to paint the walls

that should go pretty quick though....and i can probably get both coats up in one day considering it's high grade laytex paint.....it'll dry in a few hours...

my tech is currently working on building up all the cabling i need

i was planning on doing this myself but i'm flat out of time, he isn't very busy now, and he's better at it then i am.....

PT is sitting in boxes in my living room, along with a 17" plasma display and no computer

all the channels from the amek are sitting in static bags and bubble wraped....i ship em out tomorrow to get the VCA's upgraded

Fred Forssell is reviewing the schematics of the big's input channels for potential mods....

as far as the build out goes, i have to fabric wrap the diffusor panels, build and fabric wrap the cloud above the mix position, lay the laminent flooring for the mix area, and have the carpet installed......

all of that can be done in one or two days

we are very close kids......very close
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: NelsonL on June 24, 2004, 05:32:26 pm
Hot Damn!!!

Thanks for running this thread, its been really interesting to watch the room progress.

Looking forward to hearing what comes out of it.

Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: bblackwood on June 24, 2004, 09:53:00 pm
I just want to say that J is doing it right and I want to applaud him for it. He has blown a ton of dough on this thing already, but I know it will pay him back in spades...
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on June 25, 2004, 09:25:35 am
bblackwood wrote on Thu, 24 June 2004 20:53

I just want to say that J is doing it right and I want to applaud him for it. He has blown a ton of dough on this thing already, but I know it will pay him back in spades...


Thanks B-rad and rattleyour....

at this point, there is simply no turning back, a firm eye on the future and "awwwwwwaaaayyyy we go"

Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: Invisible Member on June 25, 2004, 12:42:37 pm
Its looking good.  


I have some questions though about room size, shape and areas where you knew you were going to have to compromise.

Peace,
Dennis
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on June 25, 2004, 03:23:55 pm
ask b-rad

the design is all his, the execution is all mine

the only compromise i know of is the fact that i'm building it in my basement and not starting from scratch

other then that, i've done everything B-rad has laid out, and i've done maticulously and with the best quality materials i can get my hands on.....

Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: bblackwood on June 26, 2004, 07:08:36 pm
Dennis, what questions do you have?
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: meverylame on June 28, 2004, 02:14:09 pm
J. I have a question. How did you score up on the 703? I've called several places, and while they all can get it, they all want rather large orders. As I understand it 703 comes in packages of 56 sq(14 2x4 pieces) feet for roughly $70 per pack, but a order of 10 packages is required.
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: Invisible Member on June 28, 2004, 02:21:06 pm
Hi Brad,

Length, Width, ceiling height for starters. Are walls parallel? If they are what was the workaround. I know there is alot of trapping and diffusing going on in J's room but I have no reference to front or back without a floor plan to orient me to the pictures. Any ideas on how to convert a hollow door into a diffuser or bass trap? My problem was that the room sounded pretty decent...until I put stuff into it, maybe too much stuff. Is there a arrangement of gear that was worked out to minimize nulls. jhalls space look similar in size and Im looking to change somethings around.

Thanks,
Dennis
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on June 28, 2004, 03:06:57 pm
i laid out the entire basement in CAD

B-rad worked of "to scale" plans i sent him via CAD and PDF

once the design was done, i have not updated any of my CAD files

however.....attached is a pdf of just the "mix" room in it's un-altered state

the only change that would afect plan view is the addition of the machine room wall about 4 to 5 feet back from the front wall

in the pdf, down is north, up is south.....

the south doorway leads to the hallway.
ceiling height of raw joyce to floor (floor is not level, it slopes to the drains in other rooms) is 7'-8" or something like that

B-rad can fill in all the details after you look at this pdf

Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: Invisible Member on June 28, 2004, 04:22:55 pm
Thanks jhall,

I did my design in CATIA 3-D and even did the wiring in 3-D.
My basic control room is "nearly" identical to yours except where I made a mixer nook. The Floor plan is hard to read but it gives you the idea. I have a sloping floor too, except it sloped diagonally and messed me up.   http://mypeoplepc.com/members/atomictoyz/themusicroom/id9.ht ml

I was wondering if moving the couch to the opposite end and putting mixer where the couch sits now would be better to get the back wall farther from the monitors. That means tearing out the amp isolation cabinet and getting rid of the wall unit with all my spare nearfields and duplicators.

Peace,
Dennis
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: bblackwood on June 30, 2004, 10:04:16 am
Dennis wrote on Mon, 28 June 2004 13:21

Length, Width, ceiling height for starters.

Those were all fixed dimensions, other than length, which was modified for a machine room. Space was at a premium, and though it a smallish space, I have treated rooms this size before with very good results...

Quote:

Are walls parallel? If they are what was the workaround.

Yes, they are parallel. Basically, with a room of this size, you have to basically add bass trapping on as many surfaces as possible, and the room modes are often close together and at somewhat higher (more problematic) frequencies due to the dimensions. So we built diaphragmatic absorbers into the walls all the way around the room and are adding hinged, randomized diffuser/absorbers that will mount at an angle on the walls on either side of the mix positions, insuring 1st reflections are simply directed to the rear of the room. IME, simply deadening the front of the room to tame first reflections makes the room 'too dead' - by steering that energy to the back of the room, you allow the room to sound natural but don't compromise imaging in the mix position.

We're also adding an absorptive cloud above the mix position to control ceiling reflections. Some added absorption may be necessary after he gets everything in the room, but my basic formula is:
1] Trap the bass. get it a smooth as possible on the bottom. doesn't have to be perfect, the engineer will learn the room, but he needs to hear it fairly well...
2] Steer 1st reflections to the rear of the room. I don't want the room 'dead', but simply want to make sure the engineer can hear the spatial cues accurately.
3] Absorb anything that sticks out. obviously, a hard flat surface (ceiling) just above the desk will cause issues, so let's insure those go away. Ceiling is too low to also angle this piece, so it will be purely absorptive. This is OK, most speaker don't have very good vertical off-axis response - not much energy is lost and what is absorbed is fairly inaccurate anyway.

Hope this clarifies a bit...
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: Invisible Member on June 30, 2004, 01:15:59 pm
Thanks Brad,

I think I get it. I think I have to lose(relocate) my tall rolling rack and get the door behind the mix position to absorb more bottom end. Because the door and the joist above it prevents me from simply putting a bass trap there I have to turn the door into a bass and corner trap both. Darn that going to be funky. My pink elephant has me cornered! Ive beeb beating around the bush on the door problem.

Thanks again,


Peace,
Dennis
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: Bo on July 01, 2004, 05:41:52 pm
looks great j.


by the way, long time, no chat.  my fault as usual.
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on July 06, 2004, 03:49:53 pm
call me anytime man....

all right, i've been setting dealines for months now

but this thing is coming to a close here

i'm going to officially say, two weeks......

i'll be listening to familiar program and getting a feel for the new room

i will say this, i feel pretty good about being the basement considering we've been getting POUNDED with rain for about 3 weeks here (not flooding, but it rains hard about every other day) and i haven't had a drop of water down there

so....

i'll snap a few pics tonight or tomorrow before the carpet goes in (mix position will have laminent flooring for my chair to roll on)

massive cleaning of the other basement areas will be required before gear moves in.
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on July 14, 2004, 06:44:32 pm
difussors have been fabric wrapped

everything is done BUT

no glass, diffusors not hung (waiting for carpet install....which just got done today), cloud above mix position

pics of room cleaned up and prepped for carpet

Back Wall

Front Wall
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: jthoen on July 21, 2004, 11:23:25 pm
First off I would like to applaud you J.  I believe you are totally making the right decision, ie pro tools and this room.  It looks sweet and im sure with brad behind you its going to sound great, making your mixes that much better!  

Anyway I had a few quick questions. 1) Post some more photos J. Hall.  the people are waiting to see what your new kick ass room will look like and sound like.  2) post some more photos! 3) how does it sound?  Im really hoping its good! 4) how loud is it else where in the house?  I live in an apt. currently and do all my mixing in it.  How loud it is to everyone else is important to me, granted it is your house and you might not have to worry about that as much I do but im sure your wife and kid will mind if it is to loud.  5) related to 3, how do the diffuser and cloud work, they look great from what I have seen they seem pretty easy to make.  6)maybe more of a brad question how do diaphragmatic absorbers work?  From what I can find they seem like real traps old design with a board resonating with the low end a air gap then 703/705 type material all air seal.  Is this basically right?  Would love to hear more.  7) last one, what beer you been drinking, sam smith again?  Here it has been summit epa, bells oberon and anchor summer!

thats should be it for now, I really am looking forward to seeing and hearing some new mp3's of your mixes.  Keep up the great work
joe
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on July 22, 2004, 10:45:16 am
jthoen wrote on Wed, 21 July 2004 22:23

First off I would like to applaud you J.  I believe you are totally making the right decision, ie pro tools and this room.  It looks sweet and im sure with brad behind you its going to sound great, making your mixes that much better!  



thanks for the kind words.....i just got back from Seattle last night, and was welcomed by a bunch of bills for various studio stuff i've needed to buy.  needless to say, i went to bed questioning if i should have done this.

i still think it is the right thing to do.....

Quote:


An1) Post some more photos J. Hall.  the people are waiting to see what your new kick ass room will look like and sound like.  2) post some more photos!



ok, ok.....i've been out of town

the console is sitting on the floor in the corner of the room right now....carpet is in, laminent flooring is in.

we have to hang the diffusors, build the cloud, and hang it.  then it's done

some touch up paint as well.

Quote:


3) how does it sound?  Im really hoping its good!



don't know yet.....and trust me i want to know

Quote
4) how loud is it else where in the house?  I live in an apt. currently and do all my mixing in it.  How loud it is to everyone else is important to me, granted it is your house and you might not have to worry about that as much I do but im sure your wife and kid will mind if it is to loud.  
[/quoted]

well.....i don't know that just yet either

but my band used to practice down there before the renovation (look at picture number 1 in the old recpit for details)
no acoustic treatments at all, and there was only a drop ceiling

my band is REALLY loud......we would shake the enitre first floor of the house, my wife could escape by going up to the bedrooms on the second floor, she said it wasn't bad at all up there and in the back bedroom it was pretty much non-existent.

mixing won't be nearly as loud and i put up two layers of gyp. on the ceiling with R-19 behind it (R-19 will only give me about 3dB of reduction......i did it cause it was cheap and easy and figured it was the right way to do it.

the first level of my house is all hardwood floors (built in 1947) all wood construction.  so basically, my entire first floor acts as a giant diaphram no matter what i do to the ceiling in the basement.

we'll see what happens

the only real issue is mxing late at night after my son goes to bed....shouldn't be a problem.

Quote:


5) related to 3, how do the diffuser and cloud work, they look great from what I have seen they seem pretty easy to make.  



this is simple.....the diffusors are not unique, but are a "randomly fine tuned" so to speak

instead of using a solid piece of plywood and just reflecting sound to the back wall, we used pegboard.  basically, the size of the hole dictates what frequencies will be absorded by it. (703 is directly behind the pegboard, the whole thing is wrapped in acoustically transperant fabric for looks only)

from there, B-rad had me drill, again randomly, different size holes (i used hole saws and a drill) on each panel. largest hole i cut was 2 1/4" i believe

the idea is to absorb random frequencies and to reflect random....

Quote:


7) last one, what beer you been drinking, sam smith again?  Here it has been summit epa, bells oberon and anchor summer!



i drank a lot of pacific NW beer while in seattle.  lots of ales.  i had a few really nice stouts as well

at home, i've been so busy in the studio and getting things done i haven't had much time to try new beers

boddington's has been a staple

during the "harder" construction phase of the build out (seems like a year ago) we were drinking a lot of new castle.

Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on July 23, 2004, 09:43:47 am
two more photos by request

these just show the carpet and flooring

doors are off the hinges because they don't fit right now....we need to plane them down a bit since the carpet was added.

we will be finishing the build out phase on saturday (tomorrow).

Front Wall

Back Wall
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: Invisible Member on July 23, 2004, 12:21:06 pm
You were in Seattle.... Business or Pleasure... We could have maybe gotten together with archtop or something. Heckled some bands or protested something Smile


Peace,
Dennis
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on July 23, 2004, 03:49:40 pm
straight up pleasure.  only "business" i did was enjoying the hell out of the paul allen's massive wad of cash known as the EMP and Sci-fi museum.

my wife added seattle to our very short list of cities she wants to live in

next time i head out there, i'll be sure to let you know
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: archtop on July 24, 2004, 03:50:34 pm
Yes by all means holler next time next time your in Seattle.


Hey Dennis I think I got your band "Submission" tonight, you should come on down.

I'll be the guy asking the bass player to turn down  Smile
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: Invisible Member on July 26, 2004, 10:50:35 am
archtop wrote on Sat, 24 July 2004 12:50

Yes by all means holler next time next time your in Seattle.


Hey Dennis I think I got your band "Submission" tonight, you should come on down.

I'll be the guy asking the bass player to turn down  Smile


You mean up? Smile

Dave called me late Saturday afternoon and invited me. Im sorry I missed it again. Just too tired to go. I  on some new ADHD meds and Im getting sleepiness dips towards the end of the day. My wife caught me napping on the studio couch with her new Shih Tzu puppy.

Dave says your the best live guy in the Seattle metro area!


jhall,
EMP is great, I think the SCi fi place will be a place to take my kids, EMP wasn't interesting to them for the most part. Seattle is a nice place to visit, so I live in the burbs to keep it that way. Tacoma has a nice Glass exhibit and a new zoo exhibit.  

Peace,
Dennis
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on July 26, 2004, 11:07:19 am
back on topic......

the studio build out is complete, sans door hardware on the machine room door and putting the HVAC diffusors back in.

all but one room in the eintire basement has been "de-sheet rock dusted" and i'm pretty much ready to move in.

as soon as i get the ladder and a few other things out of there, i'll snap some final pics and post em up.
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: floodstage on July 26, 2004, 06:14:50 pm
I've been (not so patiently) waiting to see your cloud but it still isn't up.  Sad

I assume it will be a diffusion (not absorption) style cloud.

Got any links/advice on cloud design?

The reason I ask is this thread got me motivated to get back to work on my room's acoustics.  I recently installed a number of absorption panels and bass traps in my room and I'm now ready to build a cloud but I don't have good info on cloud design.  Help!
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on July 26, 2004, 11:09:15 pm
oh man

i wish you would have posted on friday, i would have taken pics of the building of it

which took about an hour from start to finish

my cloud is built, fabric wrapped and hung in place

i'll get a smaller pic of it up tomorrow.....my camera takes large "high rez" pics that some complain about the DL time

anyway......my cloud is straight absorbtion

B-rad didn't want any chance of reflections between the gyp ceiling and the hardwood floor i sit above.

it's merely a wood frame holding a piece of 1" thick 703, fabric wrapped, and hung using eye hooks so i can easily take it down if needed.

pics tomorrow, i promise.   but only of the cloud, i'm building suspense here!!!!!



Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on July 27, 2004, 09:57:02 am
as promised....

first pic is from the rear of the room looking forward toward the front wall.

Cloud 1

second pic is of the eye hook hanging method we used.
four hooks run up into ceiling joice, eye hooks placed in wood framing of absorber panel.

all hooks face the same direction so you can easily lift up the panel and hang it.

Cloud 2

third pic is from the front of the room looking back

Cloud 3
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on July 28, 2004, 10:41:35 am
all right people

here it is......

a few pics of an empty room.  still haven't put up the machine room door hardware, but that hardly stops me from moving in to the room (which i have already started)

for a little perspective, i'll re-post the first pic i took.

Day 1 Front Wall

Front Wall Final

Back Wall Final

rear diffusor

Electrical


i'll take some shots tonight of the room getting put together tonight



Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: xonlocust on July 28, 2004, 06:26:39 pm
NICE!!!!
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on August 02, 2004, 11:35:15 am
the wire up begins!!

Front Wall

rear of console

Machine Room


Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: meverylame on August 02, 2004, 01:42:00 pm
Tell your back....




I'm sorry Laughing
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on August 02, 2004, 04:41:32 pm
yeah.....let's see

after moving the console, tape machine, equipment racks, and various other things......sitting on the floor for hours zip tieing off wires and making sure it's all nice and neat

i'm having trouble getting out of bed.  my back hurts just thinking about all this.
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on August 03, 2004, 12:45:14 pm
all right

put up the speakers last night

great googly moogly, hands down the best room i've ever heard

B-rad is the man

i have a few tweaks to make to the speaker positions and the diffusor angles

but let's put it this way

i listened to about 15 songs that i THOUGHT i knew inside and out....basically, my reference mixes i've used for a long time

i had NO idea.....i'm hearing things in these mixes i've never heard before

it's basically like i've NEVER heard them prior to now

i mean really HEARD them

depth of field, stereo imaging, low end, broadband clarity.........it's ABSURD

as i told B-rad, i'm having trouble positioning the speakers cause i'm flat out in awe of what i've got now.
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: blackcat on August 03, 2004, 01:23:50 pm
Glad to hear that you are pleased with the results. It has been fun watching you build the studio.  I hope that there are some photos of the finished studio soon.
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on August 03, 2004, 01:26:46 pm
i'm having a friend shoot some really nice high rez pics of the room when i'm totally done

it's close.....
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: Tousana on August 04, 2004, 04:13:14 pm
J it was good to see you a few weeks ago. Everything looks great and it seems you will be cleared for lift off. Drop me a line.
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on August 09, 2004, 11:10:15 am
hey dennis, good to see you here.

everything is REALLY close to being done.  almost time for you and mikey to jump in a car and head down here.

anyway.....i got pictures

current status of room:

Front Wall

a little blurry, but you'll get the point here....

Front Wall 2

now, if you notice to the right of the console is a 17" apple display that has been rack mounted with a shelf for a keyboard and trackball.

above all that are my patchbays.  people have been asking how i did all that.

first off, the rackmount kit for the apple display is from marathon computers.

secondly, my dad picked up a nie piece of polished aluminum for the keyboard shelf.

i marked it all up and used a drill press to drill it out, and mounted it to the display rackmount.

seemed a little flimsy so we picked up some good angled aluminum and cutting wheel for the table saw.

i cut it to size, and then cut a 45 degree angle of the front supports so i don't cut my legs up moving under it......

used a mill file to get all edges smooth

first pic is of the rear view

Rear view

front view

Front view

installed view

Install view




Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: floodstage on August 09, 2004, 12:18:44 pm
Nice work!

2 questions:

1)  What kind of monitors are those?

2)  Why is one of your wall mounted absorption panels L-shaped?
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on August 09, 2004, 01:05:13 pm
floodstage wrote on Mon, 09 August 2004 11:18


1)  What kind of monitors are those?



Wright WFM-II

small company out of atlanta that went under a while back

when i worked at mercenary Fletcher used these things, after listening to music on them for 7 months i just couldn't live without them

he switched to adams, i bought out every thing he had....spare parts and all.

Quote:


2)  Why is one of your wall mounted absorption panels L-shaped?


B-rad and i agreed that due to room size, the diffusors would be best installed in a manner that would allow them to be moved back against the wall for any unforeseen reason.

so obviously, we hinged them.

the L-shaped panel is right next the window and i wanted to cover the maximum area i could with it.

so i followed the window down then brought the panel out underneath the window.  so when it' against the wall it looks right.  it just looks funny in it's angled position.

the panels need to be moved down about 4"

i might rebuild that one.
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: drumsound on August 10, 2004, 04:01:40 am
The room looks great.

I'm surprised you went with an install rack.  I figured you'd be ready to be mobile at a moment?s notice.

Tell us about the speaker stands please.

I'm gonna have to take a trip down while I can still have the top down...
Very Happy
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on August 10, 2004, 09:40:13 am
i'm tired of moving those racks around, they don't look good in a fixed install, and i don't even have a vehicle to move them......if i REALLY need a piece of gear for a track session i can just pull it and take it with me.

speaker stands.

the base is microlam (material used for headers in new home construction)

polls are 1.5" galvanized steel pipe attached with 1.5" galvanized flanges. i had them cut and threaded at home depot.  

the top plate is two pieces of 1"x12" pine glued and screwed together.  i then used a planer to make a 45 degree angle on all edges just to give it a nice finished look.

half a cinder block for base weighting (should have spray painted them.)

then i set the base spikes using a drill press, screw in the threaded inserts, screw in the spikes......

i then cut 3" square pieces of masonite to keep the spikes from digging into my carpet

i also used those "shims" to level the stands as my floor is uneven.  i got the spikes at:

http://www.oregondv.com/
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: theenvycorps on August 10, 2004, 09:15:30 pm
Can we get a couple nice pics of the rack?
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on August 11, 2004, 09:22:38 am
sure, but it's nothing to write home about.

just random gear i've collected over the past 7 years.
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: floodstage on August 11, 2004, 09:30:38 am
j.hall wrote on Tue, 10 August 2004 09:40

i'm tired of moving those racks around, they don't look good in a fixed install, and i don't even have a vehicle to move them...... <snip>



New Mix Room .... New Pro Tools ..... New mac .... no car!

I think this must be the deinition for an indie rock engineer.  heh heh!
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: NelsonL on August 11, 2004, 03:01:59 pm
No ride? Where are you going to check your mixes?

Seriously, the room looks great and must sound even better (I'm taking your word for it.)

Are you completely operational at this point?
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on August 11, 2004, 03:43:57 pm
ha

i just sent you an email......literally, i just sent it, and came here, saw your post and laughed

you must be off tour now....

i have a car, just not one big enough to carry around two road cases and other things i used to cart all over the place.

had to always rent a van or something.

the room is about 5% from being totally installed

it sounds incredible.....

Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: jthoen on August 11, 2004, 03:47:51 pm
J. the room does look good!  Well done.  I would be interested to see frequency response, rt60 and such of the room.  Im guessing it is pretty flat since it seems to sound so good.  Ive really enjoyed reading this thread.  I hope brad will do the same for his new build out!

thanks
joe
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on August 11, 2004, 04:40:50 pm
probably won't do a transfer function or RT60 unless i feel like my mixes aren't transfering well.

you'll have to take my word for it, or fly down here with some CD's you know well
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: Bo on August 12, 2004, 03:27:03 pm
jealousy.  that'd pretty much sum up my feelings.

It's looks great, and I know it sounds even better.

This thread has been informative and interesting...


cheers!
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: craig boychuk on August 14, 2004, 12:46:23 pm
A quick question..: It seems from the pictures that your mix position is not quite in the center of the room...Did you have to take this into consideration when you were doing the acoustical treatment, or does it not matter? I guess if it sounds awesome, it must not matter...

Maybe I'm being fooled by the photos...

Anyway, this whole thread / project of yours is really reassuring to those of us working in small rooms...It can be done!!!
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on August 14, 2004, 10:37:24 pm
B-rad set the mix position

from he siad, it's a two-thirds to one-thirds ration

i'm 5 feet off the front wall centered between the two side walls

the space is about 15 feet deep.


if i move 12" back from the mix position the image goes to garbage.

from some very rough measurements......some where around 200Hz, is 2.5db down at the mix position.....

12" back, it's 7 db down

the rear of the room seems pretty accurate as well.

most places in between are not very desireable.
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: craig boychuk on August 15, 2004, 02:27:11 pm
Cool, thanks for the info, J. I know what you mean about tight mix position...I recently moved my position back a foot after finding that my stuff was translating with too much bass. Made all the difference in the world! How did you do the analysis to find out problem freqs...did you use an analyzer or just figure out the modes on paper?






Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on August 16, 2004, 09:45:49 am
i listened to MANY CD's that i love and have used for years as ref material

once i realized that i had never really heard these discs i started grabbing all sorts of stuff.

i NEVER listened to any of my work while setting up the room.

i got the speakers rough placed by just listening to program material

then i ran sweeps and listened to see if anything in the lows popped out.

i got the mix position set and did the final speaker placement based on that.

after that i grabbed my SPL meter (C weighted slow) and wathced the meter go as the sweep went from 20 to 20k.

i could hear the low mid dip 12" back

i first thought the low end was much bigger back there, but realized that it was the same, the low mids just got sucked out.

at the mix position i couldn't really hear it that well.

the meter was showing about 2.5 db of dip.

i have no idea what frequencies the dip is at.  i just know by ear it's in the low mids...i'm guessing between 150 and 250.

from there the response was really smooth, as i had been hearing for a week or so.

Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on August 20, 2004, 09:31:13 am
took me awhile....but as requested

a picture of my humble racks.

Rack Bay 1

Rack Bay 2
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: drumsound on August 22, 2004, 10:20:49 pm
Whatcha hiding in the rack drawer?  Rolling Eyes Wink
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on August 23, 2004, 09:34:26 am
four smokey amps
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: tubejay on August 25, 2004, 08:16:58 pm
Hey J.

I saw your post over at the Lab about the GSSL, and popped over here.  I used to be a member a while back, but never registered again when everything switched.  

Anyway, I looked around, but couldn't find out what tape machine you've got there.  Is that an old scully?  It's got a very unique head/transport assembly.

Your place is looking good!
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on August 26, 2004, 09:36:59 am
it's a 3M M79, it's been modded moderatly and despite a few quarky bugs it's got, the deck sounds really good.
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: craig boychuk on August 29, 2004, 10:27:45 pm
Ooooohhhh, multi-echo. I love those things so much... they make stuff sound cool even in bypass!!!  Everyone goes off about the Roland Space Echo, but the Multivox has it beat!

...imo...
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on August 29, 2004, 10:42:35 pm
oh yeah

a friend has a space echo...his sounds cool, but it's different from the multi-echo.

we use both from time to time....different aux sends, for different things.

Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on November 01, 2004, 03:42:16 pm
against my better judgement.  i'll post this.

people have been wanting to hear something i've mixed in the new room.

i'm doing some test mixes on my bands record right now.

all the tracks were cut in about 4 different studios....it's starting to be a real mess if you weren't along for the ride from the start (4 years ago)

anyway.

i typically mix records in the sequencial order of the album.

so, track 1 being a little intro piece that doeesn't have bass yet, i started with track 2.

i've test mixed this song about 8 times....so i'm a bit jaded on it at this point.

still needs some tweaks but it's pretty close.

(side note, this is a m4a file, i ripped it as a test to see if it sounded any better then mp3's, you need quicktime to play it, i think)

http://download.prosoundweb.com/~j.hall/Raygun3.m4a

go ahead and comment all you want.

you won't hurt my feelings in the least.
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: spankenstein on November 02, 2004, 09:39:49 am
No iTunes on my Linux workstation here at work.  Sad
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on November 02, 2004, 12:08:28 pm
try this one.

http://download.prosoundweb.com/~j.hall/Raygun4.mp3

Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: craig boychuk on November 04, 2004, 10:13:11 am
Kick drum sounds awesome. I like how it has lots of extreme low end, but doesn't get in the way of anything. Personally, I would up the bass guitar a bit, but it's nestled in there pretty nicely. Just a personal preference, I guess.
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on November 04, 2004, 10:24:22 am
thanks man....i appreciate the comments.

i'm having trouble with the mids....something isn't right in there.

i think it's in the bass.  not sure i need to turn it up, maybe just get some 200 - 300 back in it.  that alone will "bring it out"

i can hear full extension down to about 45 Hz in my new room......that is becoming dangerous on big rock songs like this.

some how, i managed to get that kick doing what it does, with out too much damage to the whole mix.

now if i could just afford some B&W 802's....i could hear down to 35 Hz.

hahahahahaha
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: craig boychuk on November 04, 2004, 08:32:01 pm
No prob.  

I'll bet some 200 would be tasty indeed.


Yeah, it's weird when you first get  full (or close[r] to full) range monitoring...it made me a little unsure of myself, being able to hear all that low end...like it was too good to be true!


Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: drumsound on November 10, 2004, 02:11:32 am
I'd put a flanger on that guitar break in the intro...


I still love that song!
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: Beezoboy on November 11, 2004, 10:05:28 am
Jay. . .

I don't know if comments on you mix were what you wanted? But. . .

The dry screamy vocal in the beggining doesn't work for me. Maybe if it were lo-fi telephone sounding or something else like it is in the end. The snare could be a little more wet too. The delay on the "sung" vocal that occurs after the dry one needs the delay only on the last word because I can't understand what the phrase is from the delay. Or maybe do a slapback kinf od delay. Those thend to be less noticable except on the ends of phrases.

The cymbals, particularly when he plays the hats in chorus, are really pumpy and/or phasey. Checking the mix in mono really brings it out.

Lastly I think when the vocals are doubled in the end (where they say my raygun in unison) you might try putting some delay on them for impact.

Sorry its a cool song so I couldn't resist.
Beez

 
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: ajcamlet on January 03, 2005, 01:57:21 pm
Hey J:

I just ran thru this whole thread, and congrats on your new space. I've been doing the exact same thing for about the last three months, and i could absolutely relate to every step of your progress. I'm just starting to suss out some mixes now, as soon as i was able to, i started doing overdub sessions as i was still completing the rest of the wiring (and painting, and cleaning, and problem solving, etc..etc..)

Interestingly i'm also thinging it may be time for some new monitors I'm using Dyn Bm6's with P3000 and am starting to feel a little ambivalent about them.. but for now they will stay - Gotta get some $$ rolling in!!!

Best
ajc
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on January 03, 2005, 03:12:14 pm
congrats on your new room

i'm glad i have a space good enough to reveal my monitors as a source of problems.....

i'm sure you aren't glad you need to look, and buy new monitors, but at least you now have a space that revealed more problem areas.

the questeds i'm auditioning are really nice.  H108's are the model.

they make a powered version of that monitor but i've heard the passive version sounds better so that's what i'm trying.

probably look into a bryston amp to really complete my monitoring chain.

congrats again on the room....do you have any pics?
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: ajcamlet on January 03, 2005, 03:19:12 pm
j.hall wrote on Mon, 03 January 2005 15:12


i'm sure you aren't glad you need to look, and buy new monitors, but at least you now have a space that revealed more problem areas.


On the money, man.  

I post some later tonite or tomorrow......

cheers,
ajc
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: ajcamlet on January 17, 2005, 11:14:30 pm
control room...
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: j.hall on January 18, 2005, 09:43:01 am
nicely done man!!!
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: ajcamlet on January 18, 2005, 10:14:46 am
wow that pic is much bigger than i thought! sorry..!----i have a few more, let me shrink them a bit
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: ajcamlet on January 18, 2005, 11:43:53 am
part of the live room- 16' ceilingsindex.php/fa/589/0/
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: ajcamlet on January 18, 2005, 11:45:34 am
Angela...
index.php/fa/590/0/
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: ajcamlet on January 18, 2005, 11:46:57 am
iso booth..

index.php/fa/591/0/
Title: Re: Basement Renovation....
Post by: ajcamlet on January 18, 2005, 11:48:24 am
rack 1.....index.php/fa/592/0/