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R/E/P => R/E/P Archives => Klaus Heyne's Mic Lab => Topic started by: Frankenheimer on March 13, 2007, 08:56:05 am

Title: AKG CK4 with brass CK12 and C451E Body
Post by: Frankenheimer on March 13, 2007, 08:56:05 am
Hello,
is it worth replacing the capsule of the CK4 with a CK12 Brass capsule ? I read the article of saturn sound but i am not sure to do a change. What sound enhancements could take place when replacing the nylon capsule with a brass capsule. Now i use the C451E with the CK4 Capsule and i am quite satisfied with the sound of that combination.


Kind regards
Title: Re: AKG CK4 with brass CK12 and C451E Body
Post by: Jim Williams on March 13, 2007, 11:14:10 am
Can you obtain a pristine brass capsule? Most all I've seen are filled with dust and spit.

Consider a AKG C-60 nuvistor body for the CK-4. It's a nice combo.

Also, If you want to use the CK-4 in a cardiod pattern, pull off the wire/pin from the rear diaphram.
Title: Re: AKG CK4 with brass CK12 and C451E Body
Post by: Frankenheimer on March 13, 2007, 11:34:31 am
Thanks.
I found a reskinned, by Siegfried Thiersch,  CK12 in really mint condition. So what's your opinion ? Is it worth doing it ? If A C60 is available, i can switch seamless to it.

Kind regards


Franz
Title: Re: AKG CK4 with brass CK12 and C451E Body
Post by: Frankenheimer on March 13, 2007, 01:43:46 pm
Now I found in an old thread where Klaus Heyne said that re-skinning is inadequate. I think that should be explained to me.
What is the problem on re-skinning the CK12 capsule? Is it, because of the complexity of the capsule on its own, or are parts not original ?

Kind regards

Franz Skale
Title: Re: AKG CK4 with brass CK12 and C451E Body
Post by: Klaus Heyne on March 13, 2007, 04:40:59 pm
I had Siegfried re-skin a couple of CK12 diaphragms which he then mounted  on original CK12 back plates and diaphragm rings I supplied for him (which originally were from the same, complete and original CK12 capsule)  and the results were disappointing to me.

With the CK12, it's not so much the complexity of a VERY complex backplate, it's the secrets of diaphragm construction, tensioning, aging and attachment that makes it impossible for even good capsule builders like Siegfried Thiersch to get close to the original CK12 sound.

Title: Re: AKG CK4 with brass CK12 and C451E Body
Post by: ioaudio on March 13, 2007, 04:58:16 pm
Title: Re: AKG CK4 with brass CK12 and C451E Body
Post by: Frankenheimer on March 20, 2007, 10:15:01 am
Hi, now i managed to get the C60. It's serial number 220.
Thanks for the interresting thing about the reskinning of the CK12 Capsule. It prevented me from doing a silly thing.  So i attached a photograph of my  poor man's ELA M251.

Rgds.
Franz
index.php/fa/4597/0/
Title: Re: AKG CK4 with brass CK12 and C451E Body
Post by: Frankenheimer on March 20, 2007, 04:06:24 pm
Jim Williams wrote on Tue, 13 March 2007 16:14

Can you obtain a pristine brass capsule? Most all I've seen are filled with dust and spit.

Consider a AKG C-60 nuvistor body for the CK-4. It's a nice combo.

Also, If you want to use the CK-4 in a cardiod pattern, pull off the wire/pin from the rear diaphram.

I have bought a AKG C60 with a AC701K, and it really has a very low noise floor.When was the beginning of the nuvistor era of the AKG C60 mic ? Like i said, it is equipped with a AC701K Tube pre 1965.I have uploaded a photo of that combo.

Kind regards


Franz
Title: Re: AKG CK4 with brass CK12 and C451E Body
Post by: Coco on March 20, 2007, 04:33:22 pm
Frankenheimer wrote on Tue, 20 March 2007 14:15

Hi, now i managed to get the C60. It's serial number 220.
Thanks for the interresting thing about the reskinning of the CK12 Capsule. It prevented me for doing a silly thing.  So i attached a photograph of my  poor man's ELA M251.

Rgds.
Franz
index.php/fa/4597/0/


I bet that mic sound really nice. I have never seen a CK4 in person let alone a used one offered for sale anywhere. Interesting.


Colin G.
Title: Re: AKG CK4 with brass CK12 and C451E Body
Post by: klaus on September 14, 2013, 01:34:57 am
I should have mentioned a couple of things while this thread was fresh:

1. The polarization voltage of a C60 is about 15-20 VDC below that of a C12/ELAM 251/C414, or any other AKG mic that was designed to drive the CK12 large diaphragm capsule, which needs 60VDC to operate quietly, and to achieve its full dynamic potential. I.e. under-powering a capsule spec'ed for 60VDC with too little polarization voltage, the mic gets too noisy.

2. Contrary to common belief, The CK4 did not come with the famous brass CK12, but the later, 'Teflon' CK12, as used in the C414 B ULS- a rather gray and unexciting affair.

AKG never bothered to rename that new capsule to avoid confusion (or maybe also naming the new capsule CK12 was intentional, to suggest no drop in the quality of sound).