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R/E/P => R/E/P Archives => R/E/P Saloon => Topic started by: bblackwood on April 11, 2006, 01:34:07 pm

Title: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: bblackwood on April 11, 2006, 01:34:07 pm
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/04/11/iran.nuclear.ap/in dex.html
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: George_ on April 11, 2006, 02:00:00 pm
well for me the fact, that the US has nuclearweapons is much more disturbing Cool  Cool

and on witch planet does CNN live?

for the moment I have more fear, that Behringer will take over the world and everyone MUST have at least one Behringer Unit in the active signal path..

Very Happy

thats more scary.. isnt it?
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Die BREMSSPUR on April 11, 2006, 03:59:22 pm
myNameIsGeorge wrote on Tue, 11 April 2006 13:00

well for me the fact, that the US has nuclearweapons is much more disturbing Cool  Cool

and on witch planet does CNN live?

for the moment I have more fear, that Behringer will take over the world and everyone MUST have at least one Behringer Unit in the active signal path..

Very Happy

thats more scary.. isnt it?


Hey Brough,  Nukes..Iran...Behringer...


Actually there is a correlation.  Since the smackdown on using German and other Euridiot scientists was enforced by the fukked up gringos, they had to resort to using Pakistanis and Russians...hey those guys are no slouches...but...who the fukk is responsible for oversight?!?!?!

So...

Lavry>Pendulum>Behringer>Lavry...

or two scenarios....

1. The Texas hat rack blows it and like all his other stutters, fore goes imagination and attacks Bangladesh with ground troops.  This time the great grandsons of Stalingrad vets go with us....

2. The Texas hat rack blows it and like all his other stutters, doesn't get world backing because we are in the same game, queer intelligence and a madman who is either bluffing or not.  Iran shoots their nuke....no quality plan like the Swiss...fukken miss Israel and hit Greece.....BOOOM!!!!  No more shitty cheese or Ouzo...fallout goes everywhere and people in Europe become emaciated, turn pale and start wearing stupid looking glasses.  Hatred builds across the region until someone blames the Jews for the whole mess.  Everyone stands around with their thumb in their ass waiting for the Texas hat rack to do something.  Well......we're waiting.

The hat rack continues reading to children for three minutes and forty seconds after the gyros are super well done...He is attacked by NYC lesbians for not acting presidential.

He then relocates to a command post under granite and steel and orders a shrimp cocktail after a workout on the treadmill and mulls his options.  Condi buys a Persian rug at Macys.

Deep inside his command post the President of the United States of America makes his decision.  Five days later he appears on T.V. and we declare war on Japan to restore democracy.

The director of the CIA is severely reprimanded after it becomes apparant that Japan has already been invaded and forced to be a democracy and had no Behringer equipment in the country.  Rumsfeld appears and states they must have moved it all to China.  Noone cares that it's a German company started by the CIA.

Flatulence becomes the latest musical movement butt is heavily compressed.

A turtle nibbles on lettuce and then writes a haiku.

Japanese toughs choose hood-like apparel and start saying, "yo, mufa fukkfah"

Lemme nough


Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: maxim on April 11, 2006, 10:42:39 pm
ik wrote:

"A turtle nibbles on lettuce and then writes a haiku"

if that were the worst of it

Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: bblackwood on April 11, 2006, 11:22:34 pm
Die BREMSSPUR wrote on Tue, 11 April 2006 14:59

myNameIsGeorge wrote on Tue, 11 April 2006 13:00

well for me the fact, that the US has nuclearweapons is much more disturbing Cool  Cool

and on witch planet does CNN live?

for the moment I have more fear, that Behringer will take over the world and everyone MUST have at least one Behringer Unit in the active signal path..

Very Happy

thats more scary.. isnt it?


Hey Brough,  Nukes..Iran...Behringer...


Actually there is a correlation.  Since the smackdown on using German and other Euridiot scientists was enforced by the fukked up gringos, they had to resort to using Pakistanis and Russians...hey those guys are no slouches...but...who the fukk is responsible for oversight?!?!?!

So...

Lavry>Pendulum>Behringer>Lavry...

or two scenarios....

1. The Texas hat rack blows it and like all his other stutters, fore goes imagination and attacks Bangladesh with ground troops.  This time the great grandsons of Stalingrad vets go with us....

2. The Texas hat rack blows it and like all his other stutters, doesn't get world backing because we are in the same game, queer intelligence and a madman who is either bluffing or not.  Iran shoots their nuke....no quality plan like the Swiss...fukken miss Israel and hit Greece.....BOOOM!!!!  No more shitty cheese or Ouzo...fallout goes everywhere and people in Europe become emaciated, turn pale and start wearing stupid looking glasses.  Hatred builds across the region until someone blames the Jews for the whole mess.  Everyone stands around with their thumb in their ass waiting for the Texas hat rack to do something.  Well......we're waiting.

The hat rack continues reading to children for three minutes and forty seconds after the gyros are super well done...He is attacked by NYC lesbians for not acting presidential.

He then relocates to a command post under granite and steel and orders a shrimp cocktail after a workout on the treadmill and mulls his options.  Condi buys a Persian rug at Macys.

Deep inside his command post the President of the United States of America makes his decision.  Five days later he appears on T.V. and we declare war on Japan to restore democracy.

The director of the CIA is severely reprimanded after it becomes apparant that Japan has already been invaded and forced to be a democracy and had no Behringer equipment in the country.  Rumsfeld appears and states they must have moved it all to China.  Noone cares that it's a German company started by the CIA.

Flatulence becomes the latest musical movement butt is heavily compressed.

A turtle nibbles on lettuce and then writes a haiku.

Japanese toughs choose hood-like apparel and start saying, "yo, mufa fukkfah"

Lemme nough

A simply brilliant post on so many levels...

Nice to have you back, Tik.
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: PookyNMR on April 11, 2006, 11:33:54 pm
And now the US has approved the usage of air-to-ground nuclear weapons against Iran.  Many senior members of the military threaten to resign over the decision.

This folks, could get ugly.

Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: bblackwood on April 12, 2006, 12:08:11 am
PookyNMR wrote on Tue, 11 April 2006 22:33

And now the US has approved the usage of air-to-ground nuclear weapons against Iran.  Many senior members of the military threaten to resign over the decision.

This folks, could get ugly.

And fast.

I'm not one to get into political discussions online, but this looks like it could spin out of control very quickly...
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Fibes on April 12, 2006, 12:08:56 am
Quote:

Nice to have you back, Tik.


Ditto.

I needed a good laugh (in a good way).

Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: danickstr on April 12, 2006, 12:49:29 am
hey cremmspurt

being greek I am offended by the reference to my favorite curdled mass as shitty cheese, but ya knough I can't stay mad at ya. Twisted Evil

Fry the muslim fidels.  10,000 degrees should do it.  Make the world safe for shopping again.

every behringer device has a latent chip in it that has yet to be activated...it takes a serious EMP. Shocked

b for bendetta
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: maxim on April 12, 2006, 02:37:57 am
brad wrote:

"this looks like it could spin out of control very quickly..."

i fear that point has passed a long time ago
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: George_ on April 12, 2006, 04:40:52 am
tik you rule Laughing  Laughing
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Oldfart on April 12, 2006, 07:29:09 am
bblackwood wrote on Wed, 12 April 2006 00:08



This folks, could get ugly.
And fast.

I'm not one to get into political discussions online, but this looks like it could spin out of control very quickly...



I gotta find an article I read on a french site which says the U.S. have already approved and built a mini nuke to "resolve" this issue!!!!!

sigh

(scared) Oldfart
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Tidewater on April 12, 2006, 08:50:41 am
I don't understand why everyone *wants* Iran to have nukes.


M
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: zboy2854 on April 12, 2006, 09:04:43 am
Iran is without a doubt the single greatest threat we face today.  Not just because of their nuclear ambitions (which, for anyone who believes they just want it for peaceful energy, I've got a bridge to sell), but because they also have the ability to shut down one of the primary shipping lanes for oil in the world.

Now that they've announced the new missile technology they have that can travel at 200mph in the water, they could easily shut down all oil shipments through the Middle East by blowing up tankers and send the price of oil to $125 a barrel overnight.  Instantly we'd go from paying $3.00 a gallon at the pump to $6.00.  The ripple effect through the economy would probably be the tipping point to send us into full blown widescale recession, if not a soft depression.

If there was a country we needed to invade, it was Iran.  Oh well, we were only off by one letter...
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: PookyNMR on April 12, 2006, 11:59:15 am
I disagree.   The Saudi's are far more dangerous than Iranians.  Look at their political and religious landscape.  Look at where the money comes from for a lot of the mis-deeds in the middle east (hint:  it's Saudi Arabia)  Look at where the Bush family has their deepest connections.  It's one screwy tangled spider web of a mess with a little nuclear power added for seasoning.  
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: zboy2854 on April 12, 2006, 12:18:52 pm
PookyNMR wrote on Wed, 12 April 2006 11:59

I disagree.   The Saudi's are far more dangerous than Iranians.  Look at their political and religious landscape.  Look at where the money comes from for a lot of the mis-deeds in the middle east (hint:  it's Saudi Arabia)  Look at where the Bush family has their deepest connections.  It's one screwy tangled spider web of a mess with a little nuclear power added for seasoning.  


No doubt Saudi Arabia is a potential problem, but it's not as pressing as Iran.  The House of Saud is an ally of the U.S., albeit a delicate and tangled one.  The problem is all of the radical fundamentalists who want to overthrow the royal family and impose theocratic rule.  If they are successful in overthrowing the House of Saud, then yes, I'd agree Saudi Arabia would go right to the top of the list.  For now, as long as we can keep the royal family propped up there, they can be contained, at least until the Iran crisis is dealt with.
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Barry Hufker on April 12, 2006, 12:22:26 pm
I would disagree even further.  China is the greatest threat.

We don't make hardly anything any more -- China makes it for us.

Our trade deficit with them is huge.  If they refuse to sell to us we would take such a huge economic nose dive.

They are getting more entrepreneurial all the time -- actually inventing instead of making.  They're a building up their army.  They have hundreds of missles aimed at Taiwan (our other manufacturing buddy).

How many billion is the population of China?  If they march, who's going to stop them?

Oil at $6.00 a gallon.  It really should be that price already.  Europeans and Asians pay much more per liter.  We've just gotten off easy.  And I say that as a guy whose car gets 12mph (on the highway!).

Barry
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Die BREMSSPUR on April 12, 2006, 01:37:18 pm
Barry Hufker wrote on Wed, 12 April 2006 11:22

I would disagree even further.  China is the greatest threat.

We don't make hardly anything any more -- China makes it for us.

Our trade deficit with them is huge.  If they refuse to sell to us we would take such a huge economic nose dive.

They are getting more entrepreneurial all the time -- actually inventing instead of making.  Their a building up their army.  They have hundreds of missles aimed at Taiwan (other other manufacturing buddy).

How many billion is the population of China?  If they march, who's going to stop them?

Oil at $6.00 a gallon.  It really should be that price already.  Europeans and Asians pay much more per liter.  We've just gotten off easy.  And I say that as a guy whose car gets 12mph (on the highway!).

Barry


Fukken Chineese, some bodies gotta take care of them once and for all.  This threat has been overlooked long enough.  Fukkers.....oooh I hate them!!!

They fukken always act so calm....that shit drives me crazy!

Then they always correct you, "No sir, number twelve comes with beef."

FUKK

We oughta fukken nuk'em til they glow and use their asses for runway lights.

Goddamn I hate those bastards, always trying to make shit and load it in them boats down there, you know at the dock.

Like,

they fill up those Panamanian flagged ships with those goddamned squeaky toys and alarm clocks, they make me FUKKEN SICK!!!!

Who owns those ships?

Fukk, who cares...

It probably has something to do with Globalization and the fukken Asians.

Let them try and refuse to sell me something!  FUKKEN TRY IT SHORTIE!!!!  

Now look here Lee, you're gonna give me that GODDAMNED sand shovel and bucket for $7.50 or I'm gonna put my big gringo boot right in your ass!!!!!

Fukken Chineese, they are such a threat....

We should start building West Coast defenses now!

SECURE THE BORDERS!!!!

THEY'RE COMING TO TAKE OUR SHIT!!!!!

KILL KILL KILL!!!!!


Er,

Also,

We all pay the same for gas....it's called the world market.  Some Eurons vote to tax themselves more than others thanx to General Patton and America's finest.  (meaning voting)

Who'd I leave out?

Oh yeah,

The gringos.

We don't make shit anymore.  We're fukked.  I guess the largest GDP in the world is not what we should reference, or being able to make a telephone call or shiting inside....

We should just talk about the fukken Chineese and how they have the potential to fukk us over.

ooooohhhh....I hate those fukken Chineese!!!!!

I had some Chineese food today at lunch.  An all you can eat buffet....fukken bastards charged me for my drink!!!!

lemme nough

tik


Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: zboy2854 on April 12, 2006, 01:42:33 pm
Barry Hufker wrote on Wed, 12 April 2006 12:22

I would disagree even further.  China is the greatest threat.

We don't make hardly anything any more -- China makes it for us.

Our trade deficit with them is huge.  If they refuse to sell to us we would take such a huge economic nose dive.

They are getting more entrepreneurial all the time -- actually inventing instead of making.  Their a building up their army.  They have hundreds of missles aimed at Taiwan (other other manufacturing buddy).

How many billion is the population of China?  If they march, who's going to stop them?

Oil at $6.00 a gallon.  It really should be that price already.  Europeans and Asians pay much more per liter.  We've just gotten off easy.  And I say that as a guy whose car gets 12mph (on the highway!).

Barry



There is no shortage of long term threats, but the big question is who is the most pressing near term threat?  While China certainly poses a potential long term threat, in the here and now they are still not the immediate threat that a nuclear Iran poses.

While it's true that China could crush us economically if they so chose, it's not in their own interest to do so, since they rely on U.S. consumers to buy their stuff.  China is still a ways off from ramping up all of their own citizens into consumers that could make the nation self reliant economically.  Therefore, the deficit game will continue.

The other thing about China is that it's not at all certain that they will be a threat in the long term.  While they are currently a totalitarian regime, all the free trade between us and them, along with the internet, has had the effect of bringing with it western ideas and values that are transforming the way Chinese citizens, particularly the youth, believe a society should be.  As the saying goes, free trade makes for free people, and the movement for more freedoms and democratic reforms that is taking hold in China will most likely continue until the last vestiges of Communism in China crumbles from the inside.

It's true that we've enjoyed relatively low gas prices here, but because of all the other structural economic problems we've developed here, a doubling in fuel prices regardless of how they came about would cause a near or major economic collapse.
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: bblackwood on April 12, 2006, 03:56:03 pm
Long but frightening read here.

I have no idea whether this is accurate or not, but just the thought of where this looks to be heading is chilling...
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Barry Hufker on April 12, 2006, 04:57:11 pm
Zach, I think you make excellent points about China.  However an American army stretched to its limits (fighting a war in Iran!!) makes it unlikely we would be able or willing to help Taiwan.  And I am sure we have a pact with them that we would defend them.

Having said that, I can't counter any of your statements.

Iran: I have no doubt Mr. Bush wants to bomb the shit out of Iran.  That is his first plan every time no matter what else he says.  We over-threw Afghanistan -- and that has gone so terribly well.  We other-threw Iraq and that has gone so terribly well.

For months, there has been talk about our army being stretched to the limit.  Soldiers are pulling multiple tours.  Now we want to tackle Iran.  That country is a full 1/3 larger than Iraq!

Want to drag Al-Qaida into Iran?  Want to have a nuclear blast in the U.S.?  Go ahead, bomb Iran with nukes.

BUT!! It was North Korea that was the "imminent threat" just a few months ago -- and we threatened to bomb them!

Barry
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: PookyNMR on April 12, 2006, 05:58:53 pm
The Bush administration seems to have an alternative motive.  Bush and Saudis are tight with one another.  Saudis fund Iran's nuclear program.  US wants to attack Iran.  Saudis = oil kings.  Bush administration = oil kings.  Hmmm....  Me'z thinking something aint right here...
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: rankus on April 12, 2006, 06:34:30 pm


Reagan and Kadafi (sp?) were going toe to toe in the 80's...  the Shaw of Iran was the "greatest threat to humanity" etc. etc.

This shit has been going on for many decades....

Here's my 2c:

The best way to control a population is to ensure they live in fear... that way you can pretend to "protect" them, and they may re-elect you....

Iran? Just another region to aim the silos at.. Good ole "Mutually Assured Destruction" should take care of the rest... It's been working for 40-50 years already.
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: zboy2854 on April 12, 2006, 07:09:09 pm
rankus wrote on Wed, 12 April 2006 18:34



Iran? Just another region to aim the silos at.. Good ole "Mutually Assured Destruction" should take care of the rest... It's been working for 40-50 years already.



Ahh, but herein lies the rub, and the difference this time around.  MAD has only worked when BOTH sides cared about surviving.  Now with the current virulent strain of Islamic fundamentalism, where dying is not only not feared, it is celebrated, embraced, and welcomed, the rules of the game change.  All it takes is someone who adheres to this type of fundamentalism to lead his nation into armageddon.  We don't know for sure yet, but Ahmadinejad looks like he might just fit the bill...
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Tidewater on April 12, 2006, 09:44:06 pm
Agreed, Mr. Z.

BAHAHAHAHA! YEAH! TIK! Great to see you buddy!

#12!


M
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: George_ on April 13, 2006, 12:32:01 am
I can't stop turning my head from left to right...

how old are you guys? Irane is evil, oh no: the SAUDIs are evil.. oh.. nonono.. CHINA is the king of evil..

damned... something is wrong in your head guys..

35% of all the money investet in the US is from China.. if you nuke em you are in serious trouble (economical-wise)..

think further than #12.. please.. you are old enough
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: danickstr on April 13, 2006, 12:44:05 am

i never thought i would be so ambivalent to violence against a people, but gosh I am seriously having trouble with getting mad at my government for setting up to pulverize the insane fanatics and theri innocent relatives.  guess 9/11 pissed me off quite a bit.

I am really tired of fanatics.  

very fucking tired of them.  

so tired of them that i can turn my head the other way if a bunch of their neighbors get the shit blown out of them to kill them.  that is not good, but it is accurate.

I am not proud of this, but this is the way I feel about now.
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: John Ivan on April 13, 2006, 05:14:44 am
danickstr wrote on Wed, 12 April 2006 23:44


i never thought i would be so ambivalent to violence against a people, but gosh I am seriously having trouble with getting mad at my government for setting up to pulverize the insane fanatics and theri innocent relatives.  guess 9/11 pissed me off quite a bit.

I am really tired of fanatics.  

very fucking tired of them.  

so tired of them that i can turn my head the other way if a bunch of their neighbors get the shit blown out of them to kill them.  that is not good, but it is accurate.

I am not proud of this, but this is the way I feel about now.



Yes, sadly, I have these thoughts sometimes myself. If we go down this road though, I would think it only fair to include certain people in the West who claim to be Christians. They would need to go also.Certain people have taken this Ideology/spiritual belief system and radicalized to the point that Jesus would not recognize it.

I'm afraid I put some ultra right wing "leaders" of the Evangelical "right" in the same boat with Osama and his Kind.

People have made attempts at pointing out the differences but, in my opinion, have Failed to do so.

Criminally Insane people are Just that. Criminally insane.

Too bad.

JI..........................................
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Tidewater on April 13, 2006, 06:19:29 am
danickstr wrote on Thu, 13 April 2006 00:44



I am not proud of this, but this is the way I feel about now.



It's not PC to fear for one's own safety these days. The silent war against humanity is almost won.

I am pissed off that we haven't done more, I am pissed off that everything is a free-trade zone, and nobody has any national pride anymore... all nations.

I look forward to the moment of supreme resolution.

I am proud to feel this way, or all is lost. Everything I cherished, changed.

Vote for me. I am not afraid.


M
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: danickstr on April 13, 2006, 12:17:08 pm
lol  ya i am not sure if it is PC or mac, but i am sure having a hard time with philosophies that devalue other cultures/creeds/human life as inferior.  I would never do such a thing but I still feel that when a culture does this and I am forced to react, to sentence them to death is harsh.  but I did not make their death-stance mindset..they did.  And so for the sins of the father they must die?  Living in peace with someone who just wants me dead seems unintelligent.  if it's them or us or both of us, then count me in as a soldier.  and i suck at guns.
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: rankus on April 13, 2006, 02:20:26 pm
zboy2854 wrote on Wed, 12 April 2006 16:09

rankus wrote on Wed, 12 April 2006 18:34



Iran? Just another region to aim the silos at.. Good ole "Mutually Assured Destruction" should take care of the rest... It's been working for 40-50 years already.



Ahh, but herein lies the rub, and the difference this time around.  MAD has only worked when BOTH sides cared about surviving.  Now with the current virulent strain of Islamic fundamentalism, where dying is not only not feared, it is celebrated, embraced, and welcomed, the rules of the game change.  All it takes is someone who adheres to this type of fundamentalism to lead his nation into Armageddon.  We don't know for sure yet, but Ahmadinejad looks like he might just fit the bill...


Zach,  I agree, but offer this as a possible alternative:

If there are thousands even millions willing to strap dynamite to themselves and march into our lives and kill themselves.... Where are they?

For 11/9 there were only what 20 men involved?  Same with all the other "terrorist attacks" ... why only one or ten suicide people.  Why not a hundred, or a thousand....?

It's very simple really.  There just aren't that many folks actually willing to wrap themselves in dynamite and hit the button....

The fact that there aren't numerous attacks daily is proof of this... It would be insanely simple to bring the US or Canada to it's knees... just blow up a few levy's and airports at the same time...  Poison some water sheds... done!

The reality is that they do not have the manpower or financial resources to do it...

There is a lot (aside from 11/9 etc.) of propaganda to keep our nation(s) living in fear.  

Threat? Yes.   But not as big as they want you to believe.

I am far more fearfull of say, cancer, than Islam.  In fact I will predict more deaths from smoking this year than Osama...
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: zboy2854 on April 13, 2006, 03:24:20 pm
rankus wrote on Thu, 13 April 2006 14:20

zboy2854 wrote on Wed, 12 April 2006 16:09

rankus wrote on Wed, 12 April 2006 18:34



Iran? Just another region to aim the silos at.. Good ole "Mutually Assured Destruction" should take care of the rest... It's been working for 40-50 years already.



Ahh, but herein lies the rub, and the difference this time around.  MAD has only worked when BOTH sides cared about surviving.  Now with the current virulent strain of Islamic fundamentalism, where dying is not only not feared, it is celebrated, embraced, and welcomed, the rules of the game change.  All it takes is someone who adheres to this type of fundamentalism to lead his nation into Armageddon.  We don't know for sure yet, but Ahmadinejad looks like he might just fit the bill...


Zach,  I agree, but offer this as a possible alternative:

If there are thousands even millions willing to strap dynamite to themselves and march into our lives and kill themselves.... Where are they?

For 11/9 there were only what 20 men involved?  Same with all the other "terrorist attacks" ... why only one or ten suicide people.  Why not a hundred, or a thousand....?

It's very simple really.  There just aren't that many folks actually willing to wrap themselves in dynamite and hit the button....

The fact that there aren't numerous attacks daily is proof of this... It would be insanely simple to bring the US or Canada to it's knees... just blow up a few levy's and airports at the same time...  Poison some water sheds... done!

The reality is that they do not have the manpower or financial resources to do it...

There is a lot (aside from 11/9 etc.) of propaganda to keep our nation(s) living in fear.  

Threat? Yes.   But not as big as they want you to believe.

I am far more fearfull of say, cancer, than Islam.  In fact I will predict more deaths from smoking this year than Osama...



True, but the problem these days is not the number of people willing to carry out these kinds of acts, it's the fact that the technologies exist (nuclear, biological, chemical) to allow just one or a few determined people to wipe out large swaths of a population without needing an army of followers.

Many people think that the collapse of the Soviet Union made the world safer, but the opposite is true.  It used to be that we knew precisely who had access to nuclear technology, and the club was a small and easily identified one.  As the USSR broke up, parts of their nuclear arsenals and technology went on the black market to the highest bidder.  We saw it when AQ Khan helped Pakistan achieve nuclear status,and God knows who else he sold the technology to.  But it's no coincidence that the number of "known" nuclear powers in the world has jumped since the fall of the USSR, and it becomes anybody's guess anymore as to who and when someone new will pop up having acquired the technology.

So the danger isn't in the number of people with apocalyptic ideologies, it's in the idea of just one of them coming to power in a nation-state, or gaining access to technology that would allow an individual or handful of individuals to commit genocide.
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Die BREMSSPUR on April 13, 2006, 03:43:53 pm
rankus wrote on Thu, 13 April 2006 13:20








I am far more fearfull of say, cancer, than Islam.  In fact I will predict more deaths from smoking this year than Osama...




Sorry to call you on this but victims of Osama are usually smoking.....

I know it's in bad taste but I am just trying to point out that the Chineese have nothing but ill will toward us and the Boxer Rebellion proves it!

That, and their invention of tobacco...

What do you mean "we" white man?

lemme nough
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Tidewater on April 13, 2006, 04:06:27 pm
Islam is coming for all of us.

This is Germany, 1935.


M
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: John Ivan on April 13, 2006, 04:46:29 pm
I don't mean to take this off topic but, so much of this problem can be tracked directly back to American foreign policy over the last 50 years or so. And, it can be tracked to laziness that defines the congress and the executive branch. It is stunning to look at how little real work gets done in Washington and the time will come {it's here NOW} when we realize we've been way behind the 8 ball,so to speak, when it comes to getting our minds around the source of the problems we face in the middle east.{and China,North Korea etc..}

On the front end of all these issues is one huge misjudgement after another regarding which Dictator we prop up at any given time and what we are willing to do to put Gas in our cars. I think very few people in Washington have the bigger picture in mind and it's likely that we are in a brutal period in the "learning curve" ..

There can be NO excusing the blowing up of Air planes or the whole sale destruction of human life for Ideology. None. But also, there is no excuse for not looking back honestly and seeing that we have made very bad choices in dealing with these people.

Our record is revealing. Uninformed and at times, brutal. Perhaps smarter people will be hired by the American public but, if history is an indicator, we might just be screwed.

Sorry for the rant.

JI..............................................
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Tidewater on April 13, 2006, 05:02:41 pm
I disagree. That is the apologist line. It's taugh on every corner.

History says otherwise, I am not ruled by rewritten history, it's deadly.


M
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: John Ivan on April 13, 2006, 06:26:36 pm
Well, I'm not sure I follow. I'm not rewriting history at all. I'm just pointing out some of what happened. ie. "am man in a red shirt fell on the ice"... just like that. Nothing has to be rewritten to see that the man fell.

I am NOT an apologist at all!! I'm just saying that our unwillingness to look at the mistakes we've made has, and will get us killed. How does this apologize for anything. ?

For me, there are two different things to consider. One is, these people are pigs and want to kill us. The other is, we've known this for a long time but still have their dick in our mouth. Why? Why are we willing to do Business with these people at all?

I'm just saying, we should have learned from the past and It seems we have not. that's all.

JI............................................
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Tidewater on April 13, 2006, 06:57:07 pm
My point might be that I don't care why I am in danger of being attacked.

I take it personally.

I'd rather have the kids of my friend's growing up... in a system more like what the US used to be, than charred, or growing up under Islamic law.


M
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: maxim on April 13, 2006, 07:50:14 pm
miles wrote:

"I'd rather have the kids of my friend's growing up... in a system more like what the US used to be, than charred, or growing up under Islamic law."

are those the only choices?

there is no excusable reason to accept the status quo

the yanks declared war on osama when they landed in saudi arabia to invade kuwait

the aussies joined them

now, my son is a declared enemy of people i don't know in a (second) war i do not support

yeah, i'm pissed off

unfortunately, the trouble with democracy is that it involves people



Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: rankus on April 13, 2006, 09:11:08 pm
zboy2854 wrote on Thu, 13 April 2006 12:24

rankus wrote on Thu, 13 April 2006 14:20

zboy2854 wrote on Wed, 12 April 2006 16:09

rankus wrote on Wed, 12 April 2006 18:34



Iran? Just another region to aim the silos at.. Good ole "Mutually Assured Destruction" should take care of the rest... It's been working for 40-50 years already.



Ahh, but herein lies the rub, and the difference this time around.  MAD has only worked when BOTH sides cared about surviving.  Now with the current virulent strain of Islamic fundamentalism, where dying is not only not feared, it is celebrated, embraced, and welcomed, the rules of the game change.  All it takes is someone who adheres to this type of fundamentalism to lead his nation into Armageddon.  We don't know for sure yet, but Ahmadinejad looks like he might just fit the bill...


Zach,  I agree, but offer this as a possible alternative:

If there are thousands even millions willing to strap dynamite to themselves and march into our lives and kill themselves.... Where are they?

For 11/9 there were only what 20 men involved?  Same with all the other "terrorist attacks" ... why only one or ten suicide people.  Why not a hundred, or a thousand....?

It's very simple really.  There just aren't that many folks actually willing to wrap themselves in dynamite and hit the button....

The fact that there aren't numerous attacks daily is proof of this... It would be insanely simple to bring the US or Canada to it's knees... just blow up a few levy's and airports at the same time...  Poison some water sheds... done!

The reality is that they do not have the manpower or financial resources to do it...

There is a lot (aside from 11/9 etc.) of propaganda to keep our nation(s) living in fear.  

Threat? Yes.   But not as big as they want you to believe.

I am far more fearfull of say, cancer, than Islam.  In fact I will predict more deaths from smoking this year than Osama...



True, but the problem these days is not the number of people willing to carry out these kinds of acts, it's the fact that the technologies exist (nuclear, biological, chemical) to allow just one or a few determined people to wipe out large swaths of a population without needing an army of followers.

Many people think that the collapse of the Soviet Union made the world safer, but the opposite is true.  .



Two very good points Zach. I agree.

I suppose my point was that as individuals we are not in that great a risk...

Theres safety in numbers, and our odds as individuals is pretty darned good.

Even  a small army, with nukes/ chemicals strapped to busses, they could only take out a city or two at best before the entire desert over there is turned to melted glass.  

Bring it on baby... bring it on...
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: zboy2854 on April 14, 2006, 08:28:23 am
rankus wrote on Thu, 13 April 2006 21:11



Even  a small army, with nukes/ chemicals strapped to busses, they could only take out a city or two at best before the entire desert over there is turned to melted glass.  

Bring it on baby... bring it on...


Taking out a major city or two in the U.S. could mean millions of lives lost.  To me, that's not acceptable losses, not to mention all the innocents who would be killed "over there" in a retaliatory strike.  If that day were to come, the world would indeed be a very dark place.

As they say, "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".  Personally, I'm conflicted.  On the one hand, I think the Bush administration is one of the few administrations that has the balls to take preventative measures against our potential enemies.  On the other hand, this administration is so damned incompetent at actually executing any plan that it ends up doing more harm than good. Confused

Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: malice on April 14, 2006, 10:32:37 am
/0 wrote on Thu, 13 April 2006 22:06

Islam is coming for all of us.

This is Germany, 1935.


M


You really don't get it do you ?


This decision from Iran is the direct consequence of the incredibly stupid mess US has done in Iraq in particular and in the middle East in general.

Now don't get me wrong, something has to be done to clean this total fiasco, and I don't think the world can afford to let Iran develop nuclear capability.

But while doing that, maybe it's about time to remove this administration before they decide to make a live remake of Dr Strangelove in front of our sorry eyes.

I don't believe one second that those idiots at the White House are not seriously considering targeting Iran with Nukes.

Believe me, they are that stupid and dangerous.

The question is : "how long will it take for you to realise you are sorely mistaken letting Dubbya playing with the red button ?"


That said,


don't expect me to discuss any longer than that about this issue.

I'm tired to state the obvious.

You made a mess, you clean it, that is how I see things.

If you were a banana republic, I would ask my deputy to vote a "police" action to free your country and restore peace in the world, unfortunatly, you are the most powerful nation in the planet so there is nothing we can do right now but to wait for you to realise.

One can dream.

malice
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Tidewater on April 14, 2006, 01:08:11 pm
Yes, it's all about Bush, again, always.. subvert.

Whatever. Love him, hate him. I am for the league, not the team.

This thread is hisssstory for me. Have fun, good luck.


M
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Fibes on April 14, 2006, 01:09:46 pm
Quote:

This decision from Iran is the direct consequence of the incredibly stupid mess US has done in Iraq in particular and in the middle East in general.




The Iranian nuke program has been going on since prolly the early eighties. It's easy to blame the current administration but this is one pimple that was gonna boil over no matter what.

"Those who control the spice..."

"Texas gold that is."


As a libertarian I'm disgusted. I'll vote when I get the chance but chances are the vote won't be a decision I made. Good people and government don't go together, the presidency could be chosen by lottery and chances are the qualifications would exceed the morons who are stupid enough to run to grant favors for their benefactors.







Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: rankus on April 14, 2006, 01:10:29 pm
malice wrote on Fri, 14 April 2006 07:32




If you were a banana republic, I would ask my deputy to vote a "police" action to free your country and restore peace in the world, unfortunately, you are the most powerful nation in the planet so there is nothing we can do right now but to wait for you to realize.

One can dream.

malice


With all due respect Malice, there would be no France if it weren't for the United States... It may be that they (we) are war mongers, but at least they are on YOUR side.

And to the topic in general:  It's only a matter of time until ALL the banana republics have Nukes.  This is the long term issue.  It will not be possible to contain all of them.  What then?  (I seriously dunno... I'm asking)

It may be that global nuclear war is inevitable... and the fact that it hasn't happened yet... well, you can probably thank the USA for that!

And as I can tell where this thread is heading, I will probably bail on any further comment.
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: malice on April 14, 2006, 01:41:35 pm
rankus wrote on Fri, 14 April 2006 19:10



With all due respect Malice, there would be no France if it weren't for the United States... It may be that they (we) are war mongers, but at least they are on YOUR side.




Hey,


This last comment was so much tongue in cheek that one side of my face is blue right now.

I'm genuinely concerned by this article Brad posted.

Lemme ask all of you : "If Bush nuke Iran right now, what would be your reaction ?"

Simple question, simple problem, simple answer awaited ...



malice
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: rankus on April 14, 2006, 01:53:45 pm


OK respect is restored for Malice.  Sorry I did not realize you were joking.

There is no way that the Bush would, or could, nuke Iran at this time so I cannot comment.  What I do think is that they (Bush etc.) have learned to listen to the global community more. And I think that we will see the allied countries working more closely this time... (At least I hope so)

(Not that this will be a good thing either as it will take decades to agree on a strategy)...



Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Tidewater on April 14, 2006, 02:15:34 pm
Reported today:

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad called Israel a "permanent threat" to the Middle East that will "soon" be liberated. "Like it or not, the Zionist regime is heading toward annihilation," Ahmadinejad said at the opening of a conference in support of the Palestinians. "The Zionist regime is a rotten, dried tree that will be eliminated by one storm."

Just sayin'..


Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: malice on April 14, 2006, 02:30:15 pm
rankus wrote on Fri, 14 April 2006 19:53



OK respect is restored for Malice.  Sorry I did not realize you were joking.







You mean French Army invading US ?


On a good day (that means when our Plane Carrier : the Charles de Gaules is not in maintenance,that leave us six good monthes) I suppose we could invade Hawai (if we pick up a good surfing competition day, we might benefit from a surprise effect).

But I doubt the division Leclerc could take care of Texas without the Brits that are unfortunatly on your side (Why am I doing Tik style all of a sudden ?)

Of course I was joking Very Happy

France have a long tradition of great soldier corps that serve no purposes Very Happy

malice
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: John Ivan on April 14, 2006, 02:42:13 pm
Malice, Let me take this opportunity to thank you for your help with all those ship's during the founding of our Nation. ,, You fuckers took long enough to get here, but we would have been screwed with out ya, so thanks.

About this home team Idea. I like it. I like Nationalism and think it's very important that Americans feel comfortable cheering the home team on. I can't do this with the current people in charge.This is sad,dangerous and is GETTING US KILLED FOR NO REASON RIGHT NOW!!.Please understand my pointing out what dangerous fools these guys are IS because I'm for the home team. I love my country. A Lot. Just like we all do and I don't want us represented by freak Ideologues who are self fulfilling some bizarre prophecy.

I wont stop pointing my finger at Bush for going into Iraq. I wont because it would be un-American for me to not point out that I think he is as deserving of Jail as half the people there right now.

Look. It is very hard to believe that this Iran mess wont be miss handled. They understand this to well.I'm afraid the people in the Middle east who mean us harm, have some idea about who their dealing with now and this is bad news.

It will be a long time before Iran can have a bomb to drop anywhere. But, it will take only a few months for this administration to completely mishandle this mess.Just watch.

I just hope the number of voters goes through the roof. It will take a number of election cycles but some day, we'll elect great men and women again and the interest of the American people will be known to be nearly the same as the interests of the rest of the world.

When a Holy war is started, the participants must hold true to their ideology. I say we should not play that game. We should stay home and start closing the door.{I've been saying this for YEARS!} If Iran makes a violent move? OK, then?good bye to Iran perhaps but, the mess we have now? forget it. Mr. Bush has put us in the worst possible situation. Talk about someone who could give a shit about the Home team.

JI.....................................................
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: maxim on April 14, 2006, 10:05:42 pm
george bush is the wrong man in the wrong place at the wrong time

thanks, voters!

lao tse said this a long long time ago:

"the only people who should be politicians are the ones who don't want to be"

the only way we can keep peace is to open our borders (psychoanalytically, our hearts) to strangers

don't forget that nationalism is one half of nazism (national socialism)



Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Die BREMSSPUR on April 15, 2006, 07:59:25 am
malice wrote on Fri, 14 April 2006 12:41

rankus wrote on Fri, 14 April 2006 19:10



With all due respect Malice, there would be no France if it weren't for the United States... It may be that they (we) are war mongers, but at least they are on YOUR side.




Hey,


This last comment was so much tongue in cheek that one side of my face is blue right now.

I'm genuinely concerned by this article Brad posted.

Lemme ask all of you : "If Bush nuke Iran right now, what would be your reaction ?"

Simple question, simple problem, simple answer awaited ...



malice



Ivan, nice last post brough.

Full time job and recording and mixing...fukk..don't have time to think or study the whole thread...

Malice,

The Texas hat rack cannot nuke Iran, it would be the U.S.

And we're not going to.

Your Frenchie guy there said something about nuking them too.

Your earlier post about this asshole fukkstain from Iran being a direct result of our foreign policy doesn't sit so well.

We had these discussions before and I think it's great to talk about it some more because I learn more here and expand my views rather than trying to digest the pap from Journalism majors....what interesting people.....and the people who make their livings from reacting to that pap are even more boring.

Wanting to nuke Israel and burn all of the men, women and children alive because of their race (or rather religion) has nothing to do with the Texas hat rack or Exxon.

I apologize for the lack of effort on my part to engage you to level which you deserve but I wanted to get a shot off to show my interest.

BTW...

Hope to meet you at the Paris AES...will you be there?

lemme nough

tik

Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: danickstr on April 15, 2006, 11:38:11 am
Terrorists like to hide behind the apron strings of their innocent masses.  Ferreting them out has proved to me next to impossible.  Perhaps by nuking a nation they will give up their terrorists or else they can be victims of genocide.  That works for me.  Wanting to kill people for their beliefs means we have to kill them first.  I really don't see another alternative.  Pussy talk to try to convince them otherwise will just get you ridiculed right before they put a bullet or bomb in your pacifist ass.

It's clobberin time.
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: malice on April 15, 2006, 01:50:32 pm
Die BREMSSPUR wrote on Sat, 15 April 2006 13:59



BTW...

Hope to meet you at the Paris AES...will you be there?

lemme nough

tik




Well, I'm working hard on my planning to meet you all there.

That makes me think I should take care of those invites by now...

I let you know

malice
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: John Ivan on April 15, 2006, 04:46:21 pm
danickstr wrote on Sat, 15 April 2006 10:38

Terrorists like to hide behind the apron strings of their innocent masses.  Ferreting them out has proved to me next to impossible.  Perhaps by nuking a nation they will give up their terrorists or else they can be victims of genocide.  That works for me.  Wanting to kill people for their beliefs means we have to kill them first.  I really don't see another alternative.  Pussy talk to try to convince them otherwise will just get you ridiculed right before they put a bullet or bomb in your pacifist ass.

It's clobberin time.


Well, I could write for a week straight about why your post:
#1, Scares the hell out of me and
#2, Is proof that we are not thinking clearly.

Terrorists Do indeed hide behind their Masses. This makes it very hard to find them. The more important point though is, who are they. Why does a 12 year old boy grow up 4 years later to believe we are evil and Blowing himself up is the answer AND excepted by God him self? You can drop all the Nukes you want and still not have the answer to that question.

Some people, Like "The Texas Hat Rack" {I love that one}, Think the reason the young boy blows himself up is because he Hates Freedom. Or, at least his parents hate freedom.Who could believe that something so completely retarded could come from the mouth of an American President? Yikes.

Think about Poverty for a moment. Think about what it's done right here in our own country. Think about our inner city poverty and the violence it generates.Think about the young 12 year old boy who in 4 years will be selling Blow and packin' a "9" because there aint nothin' else to do. Is he dealin' and killin' because he hates freedom too?

I understand that the two are different but, consider this,,

When you mix Poverty that turns into desperation with bad religion, and some big plastic ugly "POWER" is poking around at your country and you are told they are "infidels", WHY these people become terrorists is, still somewhat a mystery but, it does shed some light on who they are..

You can go right ahead and blow this and that up all you want. You wont change nothin' except, we'll be at war for ever then. Which, some want because their mean and stupid. But Me? I'm not stupid. I don't want the kid in Iran to hate me. I don't want any of this, "I'm better" or,,, the one I love,, when your talking to someone, just generally talking and they feel it necessary to qualify,,," Well, I'm a Christian" as if this now makes them, I don't know what, "better".

It's all so ugly that millions of Americans who can barely read think they know who God is and that the bad people, "HATE FREEDOM".

Be afraid. Be very very Afraid.

JI...........................................
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Die BREMSSPUR on April 15, 2006, 06:04:40 pm
John,

I think you may just have enough neocon in you but with a different twist....

lol...

Dude, poverty don't make no mutha fukka sell....

Bein' a fukkstain is universal, rich or poor.

You're not turning into an apologist on us are ya?

Being poor and carrying a "9" IMO is unrelated.

So is being from a shithole and blowing urself up.

If it has so much to do with our foreign policy  "MALICE"  then why the fukk are the Sunnis suicide bombing the Shia....HUH????

Mr. French Smarty Pants....

(answer)

THEY'RE FUKKEN CRAZY!!!!

Don't get me wrong...most of them are not crazy...well I have seen some crazy mother fukkers over there but most are more concerned about their chilrens and their crib.

Oh yeah,

Put me in the non-nuke category and pass the pistachios...

Love yas..

tik
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Die BREMSSPUR on April 15, 2006, 06:17:48 pm
OK sorry one last thing on the nuke thang....

Geez!!!

SCHWOOO....

First of all Noone is going to nuke anyone...but...

If you are going around repeating that you don't care about the "enemy".....just stop and think....


really....


So..


Well I guess that's it then.  I just got back from picking up an air conditioner to replace the one in the boys room because it went haywire.  I took the Suburban downtown to pick it up.  While I was there I ran into Ramy whose brother just got a job in Kuwait and will be working for a British company providing logistics from Eastern Europe.  I also picked up an aquarium for the boys to put their turtles in because the one they have is too small.  Jasmin gets back from New York next week since her time at university is over and I want to have her room done before she gets back.  She will probably get an apartment in town if I put too much work into her room.  Oh yeah I was going to stop and get some olives from my cousin but.....


































FUKKEN NICK FUKKEN NUKED ME, AND MELTED OUR TOWN!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: John Ivan on April 15, 2006, 06:25:50 pm
Good grief! Enough about the apologist thing. I'm pointing out that things are not what they seem sometimes. People are not all nut's "just because". There is something going ON that makes them nuts. I don't blame our foreign policy as the cause for their Ideology at all. Nor do I excuse their behaviour.

I'm saying that, things being what they are, we have handled that part of the world badly.

I live in a city and have lived in many. Poverty and lack of education is, with out any doubt, the cause of all this trouble.

People don't join gangs just because they are "bad People" when they are born. Something has to happen to them.

Look, I clearly have no answers. But I don't understand why so many folks refuse to look at our very own actions.It's NOT just that they are crazy. Something makes them crazy and we still decide to do business with them. Who's crazy? FUCK, we are all crazy!!

OMG, I've turned the corner! I'm nut's Surprised  Shocked
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Tidewater on April 15, 2006, 06:53:38 pm
John Ivan wrote on Sat, 15 April 2006 18:25


I'm saying that, things being what they are, we have handled that part of the world badly.

Look, I clearly have no answers. But I don't understand why so many folks refuse to look at our very own actions.



Badly. Yes. With kid gloves. Time to turn, and burn. (Or at least posture them into shitting their pants)

Their actions are just that; actions, not reactions. This shit is not about anything we have done, it's improper aggression, toward civilization, period.

This isn't the first time the enemy has been as much within, as without.

Bring it on. I'd rather deal with them yesterday, than next week.


M
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Die BREMSSPUR on April 15, 2006, 07:09:35 pm
/0 wrote on Sat, 15 April 2006 17:53

John Ivan wrote on Sat, 15 April 2006 18:25


I'm saying that, things being what they are, we have handled that part of the world badly.

Look, I clearly have no answers. But I don't understand why so many folks refuse to look at our very own actions.



Badly. Yes. With kid gloves. Time to turn, and burn. (Or at least posture them into shitting their pants)

Their actions are just that; actions, not reactions. This shit is not about anything we have done, it's improper aggression, toward civilization, period.

This isn't the first time the enemy has been as much within, as without.

Bring it on. I'd rather deal with them yesterday, than next week.


M



Actually I believe it was Sun Tzu who said,

"better to evade the day before yesterday, than knowing your enemies before tomorrow."

"Tuesday, of course, is right out"
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: John Ivan on April 15, 2006, 07:15:47 pm
/0 wrote on Sat, 15 April 2006 17:53

John Ivan wrote on Sat, 15 April 2006 18:25


I'm saying that, things being what they are, we have handled that part of the world badly.

Look, I clearly have no answers. But I don't understand why so many folks refuse to look at our very own actions.



Badly. Yes. With kid gloves. Time to turn, and burn. (Or at least posture them into shitting their pants)

Their actions are just that; actions, not reactions. This shit is not about anything we have done, it's improper aggression, toward civilization, period.

This isn't the first time the enemy has been as much within, as without.

Bring it on. I'd rather deal with them yesterday, than next week.


M



Yes. I see your point. I don't disagree either. Let's all please take note of the following.. If we had not gone into Iraq and instead spent our time and Money building our Armed services and working in secret in their part of the world, we would be in a position right now to say,,

" look, you're going to do this. and then that. and then you will do this, or ELSE!!"

Right now, they see ,, weak leadership. A worn down and stretched military. A sceptical public. A lack of world support. We have made our self weaker now.

That sucks.

JI........................................................
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Tidewater on April 15, 2006, 07:22:46 pm
No fight here.. I don't ascribe the tactical path we are on to bring us victory.

I would be ruthless, it'd be almost over.


M
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Die BREMSSPUR on April 15, 2006, 07:33:45 pm
Er,
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: John Ivan on April 15, 2006, 07:37:52 pm
Die BREMSSPUR wrote on Sat, 15 April 2006 18:33

Er,



yes?. Out with it! Come on. well?
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Die BREMSSPUR on April 15, 2006, 08:14:07 pm
Tactically we surround Iran with troops in at least seven nations and the Navy is there as well.  And, I don't think our boys are worn out.

Rather,

Warmed up.

Unfortunately, I am an optimist and I think the press as always, are really fukken this up.

I fukken hate them.  They act worst than the French government.


I don't think our foreign policy has much to do with it.  I think the extreme minority or Arabs that are violent are just pissed because they live in a shithole and the sun has rotted what is left of their brains.  I really believe that and if you see these guys standing out in the sun with just a robe on and no hat holding a Kalashnikov and drooling I don't see how you could come to another conclusion.

I don't see how being ruthless or nuking...hey that's perverted....anyone is even a remote answer.

There are kids trying to get to school and a nuke would be very inconvenient.


The dictator, extremist in a box thing has been played out so many times since the Wall came down...

pathetic.

It would seem based on events since 1941 that an evolution is going on whereby America ass hammers two-bit dictators, when we beat their own people to them, and exports droopy drawers and wearing your hat in a non-functional manner.

It's natural.

We've only got about four more to go....

yeah,

I am an optimist.

lemme nough
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: John Ivan on April 15, 2006, 08:38:40 pm
Tik wrote:
"I don't think our foreign policy has much to do with it"
------------------------------------------------------------ ----


To do with what? I might agree with you depending on what you mean. It might have nothing to do with the fact that those dudes need Hat's but, of course, our OWN actions have something to do with the results.
------------------------------------------------------------ ----

Tik Wrote:
"Unfortunately, I am an optimist and I think the press as always, are really fukken this up.

I fukken hate them. They act worst than the French government."
------------------------------------------------------------ ----

LOL, The press. Yeah, well, they have their idiots for sure. It's tough. One need's to read a lot of shit.A lot! and then try to decifer what the hell HAPPENED and read through their, "We know everything, we're JERNILESTST'S"..

There are folks on the air who I think are really smart but, no matter who I mention, someone will call me a nut case so, I'll stop there,{yeah, I'm bein' a pussy.} Rolling Eyes



One would think we would be better at dealing with these guys by now but, As we all know, this is because I know most everything and no one will vote for me. DAMN!! Shocked
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Die BREMSSPUR on April 15, 2006, 08:46:50 pm
I guess we just disagree about the reason violent Arabs do what they do.  

Cool.

As far as the press goes, I guess it was either Journalism or Psychology at university which is where all the girls and arrogant dumb asses go.

Of course they get laid more so.....who is really the dumb ass.

But if the result is having to work with that ilk there is no amount of pussy in the world worth that.

And when they shout too loud they scatter like rabbits before the hammer comes down. (Denmark)

They are scum.

what were we talking about?

t
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Die BREMSSPUR on April 15, 2006, 08:49:41 pm
BTW I throw the counter press yae-hoos in that same bucket.

Especially the flag waving hypocrites that keep "honoring" the troops.

What a fukken laugh, they may even be worse than the lying half-wit roosters they so easily expose.

Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: John Ivan on April 15, 2006, 08:51:19 pm
I would suggest that neither of us Know why they do what they do. I'm talking about what we as a nation do. That's a different thing.

Hey, it's a fuken' mess.
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Tidewater on April 15, 2006, 08:53:45 pm
Aboub Abeiminijihad imagines he is the one that is set to cause prophecy to happen.

If you are a street thug, how do you pick your victim? Do you choose a victim that carries hisself in a manner which might afford you the upper hand, or a guy that's 6'6", wearing military fatigues, with a tattoo that says, "Kill 'em All!".

If we act like we won't do anything, we are the mark.

You can't just wait around to call a bluff... bluff, or not. If someone claims to have dangerous shit, and a will to use it, that is enough for me. It's the only thing I trust at face value.

I take threats seriously. Islam can have this World when people like me are dead, and gone.

(looks like sooner than later)


M
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: John Ivan on April 15, 2006, 09:03:32 pm
/0 wrote on Sat, 15 April 2006 19:53

Aboub Abeiminijihad imagines he is the one that is set to cause prophecy to happen.

If you are a street thug, how do you pick your victim? Do you choose a victim that carries hisself in a manner which might afford you the upper hand, or a guy that's 6'6", wearing military fatigues, with a tattoo that says, "Kill 'em All!".

If we act like we won't do anything, we are the mark.

You can't just wait around to call a bluff... bluff, or not. If someone claims to have dangerous shit, and a will to use it, that is enough for me. It's the only thing I trust at face value.

I take threats seriously. Islam can have this World when people like me are dead, and gone.

(looks like sooner than later)


M


Yeah. If we would have played this right starting a few decades ago, these people would not DREAM of fucking with us.
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Die BREMSSPUR on April 15, 2006, 09:07:19 pm
John Ivan wrote on Sat, 15 April 2006 19:51

I would suggest that neither of us Know why they do what they do. I'm talking about what we as a nation do. That's a different thing.

Hey, it's a fuken' mess.



OK,

I may not know why they do what they do.

But I think I have a pretty good idea.

They're (the violent ones) CRAZY.

I am not sure about the world being a mess either.

Like I said we are down to four or so dictators.  I mean real dictators of the Ceuasecu class.

You can drive from Vladivostok to London and across Africa without being boiled.

There is no church running things.

Slavery is abolished.

We have Space travel.

Electricity.

The REP!!!

It may be possible to drive from Moscow to Malaysia someday and hit a Wal-Mart every four hours.

Hey,

I think things are going pretty good.

Our biggest problems our the fact we have too much shit and pollute everything up and the our doctors do such a good job that we are over populating.

We have wonderful children that live in Zambia and want to go to NYC.  There are children in Hungary that dream of a Harley Davidson.

Don't let a few absolutely fukked up sun zombies ruin your day or perspective.

Oh,


It's not our fault.


Hey, it's 3 over here....

Eyes are fading....

Ciao Babe...

t
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Tidewater on April 15, 2006, 09:08:02 pm
Agree; the kid gloves. Jimmy Carter is as responsible for this, as any single person.

The Brits never should have split the territories up into non-viable countires, placed the Arab monarchs, nor should we have ever given them the technology for oil production.

Oh well.

I am looking forward to voting against our government next time, the whole thing. I plan to vote early, and often.


M
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: bblackwood on April 15, 2006, 11:10:15 pm
Honestly, we can argue all day as to why we're in the position we're in, but it won't change where we are...

The real question is this - what are our options in dealing with this and do we have the leadership in place to do what is best?

I don't know the answer to either of those (though I think I have an idea). I really would love to see this discussion continue forward with what you think will happen and what the appropriate response from the US/world is...
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Tidewater on April 16, 2006, 05:39:18 am
Appropriate response is the World (not the UN) vowing to come together, to fight against it, and then actually doing it. (no UN.. like.. uhhuuh..)

The non-Islamic world has everything to lose.

We don't have what it takes.

Israel will take action. It's not going to be pretty. The rest of the World would love to keep kicking us, while they imagine we are down. The rest of the World will lose.

I don't look forward to this, but this is an exciting time to be alive, and imagine one is free.


M
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: maxim on April 16, 2006, 06:05:06 am
miles wrote:

"The Brits never should have...." (fill in the blank)

now, i agree
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Die BREMSSPUR on April 16, 2006, 06:07:45 am
Sorry Brad,

My crystal ball is on the fritz.

I sent it out but I live in Europe and it will take forever to get it back.

But,  

As yet another aside.

With the exception of Japan every two bit dictator in the last hundred years does this ridiculous posturing thing before we usually arrest them or bomb them and then arrest them, or their own people kill them or turn them over.

What is up with that.

WE

Humanity, are weird.

The Japaneese just fukken sneak attacked us.

But everyone else gets in front of the camera and start shit talking.  I find it....

odd....

Hitler would be in front of the kamera and the Neumann openly defying the future Allies and clearly stating how it was all a big shit sandwich and you're all gonna have to take a bite.  Then, toward the end he started this "Total War" mularky.

Mussolini...same thing, he was shot by his own team and drug through the streets.

Ceausecu...shot by his own team.

Milosevic who talked loads of shit about the race needing to be perserved, was turned in by his own people after we put a few rounds into belgrade and his people had to chose between Coke and Nike and Rap music or more boring speeches.

Sadamn, Thumbed his nose at the Red, White and Blue, we shot his sons to death and arrested his ass.

Noriega....banged a machete on the podium...uh...then we arrested him.

Maybe that's the code.  If you talk a load of shit you get arrested.  If you don't make speeches and aren't quoted by major news outlets before you pull a Pearl Harbor....

We nuke ya.

Sometimes we just help ya get a grip and take a powder, Charles Taylor, Ferdinand Marcos, Khadaffy, Grey Davis...

Who'd I forget.

Do these fukknuts think if they raise the ante to nukes that the U.S. will suddenly stop in it's tracks?

Based on history over the last hundred years, does it make much sense to threaten your neighbors and the U.S.?

Castro, got away with the missle ploy during the cold war but once Russia went from Super Power to a giant used car lot you never heard him talking about burning America in a lake of Spiced Rum.....no way man, wanna buy a cigar?



So why all the speeches and goofy antics?

Strange.
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Tidewater on April 16, 2006, 06:54:21 am
He thinks he is the person who set prophecy into action.

It's not good.


M
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: bblackwood on April 16, 2006, 08:11:11 am
Die BREMSSPUR wrote on Sun, 16 April 2006 05:07

Sorry Brad,

My crystal ball is on the fritz.

Hahah, of course, but you can have an opinion, no>

In this day and age, everyone knows how to do it better than everyone else anyway...

Quote:

So why all the speeches and goofy antics?

Attention.

This one may be different. We really don't know how primitive or advanced the Iranian nuclear program is. If I were a crazy dictator in a third world country I'd at least wait until I had a saber to rattle before I started rattling it...

Either way, I'm on the fence about this situation.
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Die BREMSSPUR on April 16, 2006, 08:42:09 am
OMG,

That's right!

This could actually be the first two-bit fukknut that is actually threatening without having the means whatsoever.

WTF!

If you're going to be an evil villain, Rule #1 Have an instrument of evil.

What a dick head!

It would be like invading a country and not finding any instruments of evil, how stoopid would that be....I know, that could never happen.

tik
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Tidewater on April 16, 2006, 08:49:29 am
What if part of the bluff is that they actually have a few nukes?

Did you hear about their yellow cake party? Unreal. Tell me it's not evil.

Nuclear blackmail.


M
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: danickstr on April 16, 2006, 11:45:55 am
(to John Ivan and TIK)OK I was pissed and my post scared me too, but anger is a real part of the fallible human thing.  Frustration at people hiding behind innocents has gotten the better of me, so logically I decided to kill them all.  Funny story, btw tik about the last minutes of an Irani family.

now back to our regularly scheduled program:


Funny thing to note is how many of the "missles" that rolled across red square were actually steel tubes with fins on them.  just there to make it look like they had lots of nukes.  i know they had them people so don't tell me i am missing something, but the point is that props were valuable then.  

i am not so sure they are valuable now.

this GOP group of cronies seems to have their agenda pre-planned and then they try to find news to fit it.  

(Long sentence ahead)

Whatever they are planning they will say the opposite until it fits their needs to tell the slanted version of the truth that lets them make a lame excuse for whatever it is they were going to do in the first place.

Their truth is reminiscent of a kindergarten noodle necklace, and about as well put together.  Sloppy and pathetic and only acceptable if you love the person who made it.  

Kids going to school.  Ya they don't deserve to die.  So lets just kill everyone who is a muslim terrorist after the age of 18. I will send out a mailer.  

Since it will only take a handful of them to get a refrigerator-sized Iran baked nuke into a country and blast a major metropolis into oblivion, I hope they all return their terrorist cards on time so we can send a death squad to their house.
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: John Ivan on April 16, 2006, 03:17:42 pm
Well,Brad makes a good point. I have spent a lot of time pointing out the pit fall's of having the Texas Hat Rack In Office.

danickst,  I too am very very pissed at those who are willing to kill Innocent people in the public square. Especially when they do it in the name of some screwed up "take" on what WAS a GRAND religion. It's sad, and I DO think people can be educated out of these idea's though. I hope and pray they can be.


The first thing we face, that could be dangerous, right now is Iran. So, we are on the ground there now, you can bet on that. We CAN find out if they have a bomb. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise,, they can not hide a nuke. They can hide parts of a "program" but it is very very hard to hide the capability to throw them a long way and it's hard to hide blowing them up to make sure they work. We DO have time.

If different leadership we're in the White House and the Pentagon? I would be,,{Oh, I forgot to tell you, I'm King, we still have a prez and stuff but, I'm king for this post. see? Like my Crown? Surprised }um,, I would be considering telling Iran this,,

" You will stop what you're doing now. Then, you will grant 1000 diplomatic entrant's to your country. They can come at random and look at what ever they want. If you don't do this, we are going to come GET your Nuke program."

The problem with this right now is the total lack of credibility attached to this white house.This is why you don't go to a place Like Iraq without. A reason, A plan,and overwhelming force, oh yeah and  A PLAN, HELLO!!??!! anyhow,,

We should not do the kid gloves thing but, I'm here to tell you, {as King,of course} that the next time we use our military over there, we better not be kidding and we had sure as hell better listen to Generals who have been covered in blood about how to get it done. {there are not many left these days and many have been ignored by the pentagon.}

We need to be known for the "don't tread on me" semi-hawks we used to be."hey, we don't like war but if you hurt us or our friends? we'll kick your ass, BIG TIME!!}

Please note this is something we may NEVER get back!! See? Problem.

I think it's time to let the possible Civil war in Iraq take place. We will be blamed for this but that will be because we are partly to blame for it {Duh!} We have almost nothing to loose by starting to get out. As the Texas Hat Rack was told by lot's of smart people before we went into Iraq, "you will never do anything about how much these people hate each other" His Old man warned against this very thing.

So, I would be leaving.

I would be making every deal possible to get oil from everywhere I could except the Middle east. I would be moving way faster on alternative energy. If we were moving fast enough and I thought REAL things were being done, I would start drilling big holes all over the country. Yep, this Liberal hippie peace lovin' freak would drill for oil right in his own back fucking yard.

In General, I would want way fewer dealings in the Middle east. I would NOT I say NOT want a presence in Saudi either.

I'm all for the American way. Let people into our country legally but, not from States that are known for producing people who want to kill us. Yep. I said it. That's right. There is no reason to, nor is it written anywhere that we need to let people into this country willy nilly. It's stupid and it doesn't help the people who really want to come be Americans. People from certain countries MUST be looked at more closely. Call this what ever you want but I just think it's true.

Muslim Leaders with peace on their minds need to step up to the plate here and this will mean that they have some war's to fight amongst them selves. Our soul purpose in that part of the world should be making sure they can't/wont Nuke each other.

Close the door. For a while anyhow.

The UN is a mess and has about the same cred as OUR government right now. It needs rebuilding and I would toss a few nations out because, the word "United" should mean something. I'll leave it at that for now.

In general, what I'm saying is, we need to be tough. Really tough. BUT, we need to be smart. Really fucking smart. The smartest. Right now? We look like scared and weak, religious Ideologues out to take over the world. This is a fools game run by fools.

Tik's optimism is not miss placed. Given the history of the world to date, things could be way worse for sure but,, these are very very critical times. We don't have time to fuck around. This means we need new blood in Washington and this means people have to vote. Not JUST vote but, understand who and what they are voting for. I dare say that "W" won the last election based on votes cast by people who don't what's going on. He won a marketing campaign.


Random thoughts from your King sorry for the long post.

JI.......................................................... ..
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Tidewater on April 16, 2006, 08:35:36 pm
John Ivan wrote on Sun, 16 April 2006 15:17



It's sad, and I DO think people can be educated out of these idea's though. I hope and pray they can be.

  JI.......................................................... ..



Dear Steve Jobs,

Enclosed, you will find a 13 floppy disk set of the Windows for Workgroups OS. You are going to need to learn about Windows, from the ground up. This will be done on what's called a 286.

You are lucky I don't have any punch cards.

Cordially,

William Gates

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Indoctrinated from birth... I don't think most of them are turn-around cases.

Killing infidels is not an elective course in Pawshasheraaer madrassa. It's written in the religious tome that they worship like a God, in itself.

Sun Tzu

Part One: 18-26

18. All warfare is based on deception.

19. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable;
   when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we
   are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away;
   when far away, we must make him believe we are near.

20. Hold out baits to entice the enemy.  Feign disorder,
   and crush him.

21. If he is secure at all points, be prepared for him.
   If he is in superior strength, evade him.

22. If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to
   irritate him.  Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.

23. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest.
   If his forces are united, separate them.


24. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where
   you are not expected.

25. These military devices, leading to victory,
   must not be divulged beforehand.


26. Now the general who wins a battle makes many
   calculations in his temple ere the battle is fought.
   The general who loses a battle makes but few
   calculations beforehand.  Thus do many calculations
   lead to victory, and few calculations to defeat:
   how much more no calculation at all!  It is by attention
   to this point that I can foresee who is likely to win or lose.


In the above, did you imagine us the aggressors, or them?

Do not underestimmate what we are up against. Continue reading Sun Tzu, he has much to say about the enemy living among us, and how to infiltrate, and win without a shot fired.

We are losing without a shot fired.

The enemy knows much of Sun Tzu, I see it everytime a defeatist congressman stands up to blame us, and everytime the ACLU opens their mouth. Don't be indoctrinated into inaction. It's not a path to afford.


M
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: maxim on April 16, 2006, 09:44:56 pm
why not read some lao tse instead?
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Tidewater on April 16, 2006, 10:00:47 pm
Outside the scope of this conversation.

This is what, that is why.

Sun Tzu; The Art of War:

Part 13 1-2

1. Sun Tzu said:  Raising a host of a hundred thousand
   men and marching them great distances entails heavy loss
   on the people and a drain on the resources of the State.
   The daily expenditure will amount to a thousand ounces
   of silver.  There will be commotion at home and abroad,
   and men will drop down exhausted on the highways.
   As many as seven hundred thousand families will be impeded
   in their labor.

2. Hostile armies may face each other for years,
   striving for the victory which is decided in a single day.
   This being so, to remain in ignorance of the enemy's
   condition simply because one grudges the outlay of a hundred
   ounces of silver in honors and emoluments, is the height
   of inhumanity.



M
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: danickstr on April 16, 2006, 11:54:24 pm
thanks Miles for the lesson in War classics.  

The whole concept of deception is a little too dark for me, althought I don't doubt it goes on in all political and war forums.

 Funny because I said earlier that I saw nuking Iran as a viable option.  I still do.  Not because I actually want that, but because the threat of it will hopefully get them to pay attention.  The minute they think we are too chickshit to do it, we have lost our edge.

They have to think we are crazy motherfokkers.

Then the "go in and take their nuke shit" thing becomes the way to go.  

Then we just have to sit around and wait to see if they can kill enough of us or other innocents with regular crappy bombs and guns on their suicide runs.

I understand why some people hate us and in some ways they have a right  to hate us.  We are (about) 2% OF THE WORLD POPULATION USING (around) 25% OF ITS RESOURCES.

That is such a shameful statistic.  America the gluttonous.

that plus we stole this land from a bunch of really sweet people, using tricks from the art of war booklet.

But this country is the defender of freedom and while our freedom may not be that ideal, it works.  

We are a bunch of sexually repressed, materialistic, over-weight wallflowers wrt to the rest of the world.  But we are also the most creative and innovative source of new stuff.

This religious war shit is very dangerous.  Maybe sterilization drugs would be a solution.

I know I am not sounding like a liberal, but I still believe I am.  I just don't want a bunch of deaths for generations to come because of a mutated religion.  It is a disease.  Diseases must be destroyed, not re-educated.

Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Tidewater on April 17, 2006, 03:46:01 am
Nick, my politics are probably a 180 of you, and yet we agree on tactics.

That should scare the crap out of Aboob Ajbamini-me.

Let me remind everyone who the president of Iran is, having taken hostages from our embassy, and holding them for 444 days.

Fundamentalist/Terrorist, it's not a dream! We are awake.

Anyone who'd think I want to live my life like this, is insane.


M
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: malice on April 17, 2006, 04:05:05 am
bblackwood wrote on Sun, 16 April 2006 14:11

Die BREMSSPUR wrote on Sun, 16 April 2006 05:07

Sorry Brad,

My crystal ball is on the fritz.

Hahah, of course, but you can have an opinion, no>

In this day and age, everyone knows how to do it better than everyone else anyway...

Quote:

So why all the speeches and goofy antics?

Attention.

This one may be different. We really don't know how primitive or advanced the Iranian nuclear program is. If I were a crazy dictator in a third world country I'd at least wait until I had a saber to rattle before I started rattling it...

Either way, I'm on the fence about this situation.



You make good points.

The problem is precisely about how meakened US military power is by now. Because Iran is trying to take advantage of the present situation weither they have nukes or not.

It's a win-win situation for them. They can be martyrs if US nuke them, they can be martyrs if US succeed in a conventional invasion (that will weakened US a little more), they can succed in defending themselves against an aggression (Iran is not Iraq, much more difficult to invade), or they can bid time if nothing is done to stop them in their nuclear program and eventually become an islamic nuclear power.

This time, I agree that the only solution is that the world in its globality puts an end to this.

But that is another thing Bush has done over the years : dividing the world, and Europe in particular for several reasons that even have nothing to do with Islamism.

Bush (and administration) , as predicted, made this world a very unsecure place, probably even more unsecured than during the cold war.

malice
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Tidewater on April 17, 2006, 04:46:57 am
malice wrote on Mon, 17 April 2006 04:05


The problem is precisely about how meakened US military power is by now.

Because Iran is trying to take advantage of the present situation weither they have nukes or not.

But that is another thing Bush has done over the years : dividing the world, and Europe in particular for several reasons that even have nothing to do with Islamism.

malice




Don't think it for a second.

Iran? Hell, defeatists, and apologists just as well!

Yes, God knows, it's GWB's fault.

Do not listen to the media, they are just graduates of shitty university miseducations.

Stick with me; stay close, and I will guide you to a safer place.

All Aboub It


M
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: John Ivan on April 17, 2006, 05:13:40 pm
EDIT: THIS POST SHOULD BE VIEWED AS A QUESTION,MORE THAN A STATEMENT.



Hey all,

Miles, thanks for the reference to the Art of War.Also, I've read Chuck's op-ed stuff here and there, he's a smart guy and is over looked. FWIW, there have been a lot of really good conversations on some of the "Liberal Media" shows pointing out what a HUGE Problem Iran is and it's not taken lightly by the legit people reporting what I call News. You make very good points about the danger facing us and there can be no doubt that it's real. I just want you to know that I'm with ya on that.

About anything being W's fault. I understand that it's not his "fault" that a bunch of sick minded people want to kill us. I also realize that a whole bunch of things he's blamed for have nothing what so ever to do with him. I'll just restate my point: He is not now,nor will he ever be equipped to deal with these problems. He just is not a leader. He can't think for himself and is far far away from being a conservative.

That being said, I'm not one to stand by and let Iran develop Nukes. I'm saying, because we've made the choice we have already in going into Iraq, we have put ourselves in a bad position to deal with Iran effectively. We WILL now have the world, for the most part on our side when it comes down to dealing with Iran. Our Credibility gap though, has and will slow us down. Hopefully, when we decide to move on Iran, we will do so in a way that drives home a couple points that used to be unquestionably American but have been called into question over the last few years. This has to do with how and when we use our Military.

It used to be rather clear that we would not start our killing Machine unless it was going to be used in an overwhelming way. In other words, I think we should have said, " After 911, we want Sadam gone. Therefore, he will be gone. We are sending 450,000 troops into Iraq to do this and it will be done right." This, of course, is not what happened. We have fucked this up badly,by ANY measurement.It has been mishandled, I hope everyone understands this now. Again, there is NOTHING about how we did this, that worked. Nothing.

So, My big hope is, if we use our army, the people who decide how to do this are NOT the people who are there now...


Look, if we as a nation,decide to deal with Iran and we have Europe and most of the rest of the world on our side, then we should make short work of it ,, right? I mean, if there's a holy War coming whether we like it or not, then we should get moving.

I don't have the answer. If the truth IS, that no matter what we say or how hard we try to "talk" or "Teach", we will be forced into war, then we should start acting like it's WWIII. We should be dumping $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ into the war machine, getting into the country should be real hard, and we should Go get ALL the dictators in the world. We should say, " we are going to war with who ever we damn well choose. If you are not a democracy, we are coming to kill you now."

We either deal, or we don't.

I don't have the Answer. Sorry.

 JI.......................................................... ...

Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: danickstr on April 17, 2006, 10:54:28 pm
John Ivan wrote on Mon, 17 April 2006 17:13



I don't have the Answer. Sorry.






don't worry John,  I have the answer.  We shove a barbed stick up the ass of any leader that flaunts nukes at us.  On TV in front of his cabinet.  Problem solved.  Kim Jung Il will be having rectal cramps just thinking about it.
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: George_ on April 18, 2006, 12:01:11 pm
I have 3 solutions..

option 1:
close the thread because an Irane, Chinese, Palestinian, Indian, Pakistanian, Ukrainian or even worse.. an american politic/dictator read this thread and will blow us up..

option 2:
close the thread because of too much desillusionated people with too much fear running around and tell others having fear is better...

option 3:
Switzerland should take over the world leadership and install a swiss world governement.. very neutral, on top I see the option for good cheese and choclate for everyone..
Tik - prime minister
Rankus - the man for the cheap but effective stuff (like finance-minister)
JJ blair - foreign politics (the world will have FEEAR.. warlord minister)
MR Charles DYE - our video specialist.. showing the problem areas in the world with a videotape how to mix things right
Fletcher - secret weapon commander.. he will press the red knob if he is pissed off.. I mean that would be a very nice end for the world
Ross Hoghart for all the religion related stuff and powercables around the world (minister of religion and powermanagement)

I will install myself in the pmtstudios and record some nice deathmetal while you reign the world..



I think that would be the best option so far.. option 3 (should I add a poll now??) Cool  Cool
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: rankus on April 19, 2006, 01:46:12 pm


I vote for George!

Swissland running the new world would be OK by me!

I feel safer already!
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Tidewater on April 19, 2006, 02:36:49 pm
Not really a viable alternative, why not just add a lifetime cruise on the good ship lollipop?

Smile


M
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: danickstr on April 19, 2006, 11:29:18 pm
the swiss are just subtler germans.  i will stick with the US but maybe test a nuke here in the red states.
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: Tidewater on April 19, 2006, 11:40:12 pm
You can test it on my town, as long as you promise to use them on the enemy, if it works.

I had a good run.


M
Title: Re: Oh boy, here we go... (Nuclear Iran)
Post by: maxim on April 19, 2006, 11:43:49 pm
never stop running