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R/E/P => R/E/P Archives => Fletcher => Topic started by: J.J. Blair on March 21, 2006, 04:57:50 pm

Title: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 21, 2006, 04:57:50 pm
So, since we touched on this a little while back, I thought I'd bring this up again.  I just got done watching a video of the entire 1973 Who at Cow Palace show.  For those of you who don't know the story, before the show, somebody gave Moon some horse tranquilizers and told him to take half of one.  Being Keith Moon, he decided to take the whole lot.  At about an hour and ten minutes into the set, Keith passes out and disappears from behind the drums, right in the middle of "Won't Get Fooled Again".  The band carries on like nothing is wrong, playing along to the prerecorded synth track.  Roger still twirls his mic, Pete still jumping around, etc.  They break for a minute, get Keith back behind the kit and play "Magic Bus".  Keith proceeds to pass out again.  They finish the song and do "See Me, Feel Me" without Keith.  You can see some roadies arm in the background hitting the gong through the song!  LOL.  After this song, Pete makes an announcement that Keith's not well, and that ask "Can anybody play the drums?  I mean, somebody really good."  

I can't remember who here said they were at the show, but yeah, it ain't quite the Who with the other drummer.  The thing that is amazing though, is the way the band persevered through the situation.  I mean, talk about a morale killer, and these guys had their chin up and just kept rocking hard.  Far all they knew, Keith had just died.  

I was super impressed with how well Keith Played up until he succumbed to the tranqs.  I mean, wow.  It was really a great show up until that point.  

Bands just don't rock this hard anymore.  There are no real rockstars anymore, either.  Not that it was good to live a lifestyle like that, but anybody that tries that shit anymore just seems like a pale imitation of bands like the Who, the Stones and Zeppelin, that wrote the book on that.  

Rock is dead they say.  I knew it for a fact when I was seeing McCartney and the security people made everybody stop using their lighters during "Let It Be".  
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: wwittman on March 21, 2006, 08:14:13 pm
The thing is that The Who in particular was ALWAYS that kind of on the edge crapshoot.
They were either transcendantly good or horrifyingly off.

often on the same show.

so powering through an off night, or off moment, was nothing at all new to them.


I think they knew it could all turn on a dime anyway.
If they had given up on a night that wasn't happening, they'd have quit a LOT.

Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: minister on March 21, 2006, 11:43:01 pm
IIRC, this SUBSTITUTE was interviewed recently on Fresh Air.  He said his friend told the security guard that his friend could play and they let him up on stage.

irony is, that was his moment and he has been a regular guy ever since.  anonymous.  maybe happy?  not arrested for child porn on his computer?
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 22, 2006, 12:08:52 am
Slightly OT, Pete wasn't arrested for porn on his computer.  That was Gary Glitter.

I hate to sound like an apologist, but the fact that there was not porn on Pete's computer makes his explanation sound entirely credible.  But that's another thread.
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: Invisible Member on March 22, 2006, 11:05:52 am
J.J. Blair wrote on Tue, 21 March 2006 21:08

Slightly OT, Pete wasn't arrested for porn on his computer.  That was Gary Glitter.




http://www.petetownshend.co.uk/history/biography/

Quote:

In January 2003 Pete Townshend was arrested by the Police in connection with their investigations into child pornography on the Internet. Over the previous year or two Townshend had been dealing with the problem of child porn both on his website and in private, talking to the authorities involved. Nonetheless a highly publicised police operation saw him arrested. Four months later no charges were brought against him and the case was dropped. During the investigations Townshend returned to his studio to work on new projects. He remixed Tommy into 5.1 surround sound from the original 8 track tapes and saw it's release in both SACD and DVDA formats meet with critical acclaim (The DVDA release was nominated for two Surround Sound Awards in September 2004).


Just as a clarification.  There were different intentions between Pete researching a problem and being part of the problem as in Glitters case...

Back On Topic...

Who in thier right mind would get up on stage to fill in for a musician? DLR passed out often...

As a kid I would have been on stage in a millisecond.. i fact I used to dream about such instances Smile
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: wwittman on March 22, 2006, 01:03:54 pm
are you kidding?

who would pass up a chance to play with The Who???
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: vernier on March 22, 2006, 02:31:25 pm
Ever notice he didn't have a hi-hat ?
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 22, 2006, 02:48:33 pm
Vern, that's not true.  He originally did have one, and then later placed a cymbal where the hat would be, and then wound up putting a hi hat back there again.  But that was just live.  There were hi hats in the studio.
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: vernier on March 22, 2006, 02:59:28 pm
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/Skydog_/Moonskit.jpg
I figured that was the deal ..seems he didn't need it though.
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 22, 2006, 03:56:45 pm
That's the cymbal as a hat that I was talking about.  In footage from early Who shows, you can see him using a hi hat.  Off the top of my head, I don't recall hearing hi hat on the late '60s albums, but you hear it on Who's Next and everything there after.  
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: max cooper on March 25, 2006, 11:43:40 pm
I was too young to have seen The Who before 1980, which means the first time I saw them with with Kenny Jones.

Has the band ever mentioned what was behind the choice of Jones to fill the throne?

He certainly had a track record but even then, at fifteen, I was a bit baffled about it.

Is is possible they were aiming in a different direction?  "You Better You Bet" would seem to say that they were.
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: vernier on March 26, 2006, 12:26:07 am
Yep, Kenny Jones was an odd replacement ..maybe they just wanted a change.

He's one of the best ever though, check this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei-L_AuuaxI&search=Faces% 20stay%20with%20me
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 26, 2006, 01:58:51 am
I have the demo for what became "Athena".  I swear to God, it's a fucking calypso beat on a drum  machine, and the whole song sound like a samba or something.  Very, very, very different from the Keith thing.
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: David Ballenger on March 27, 2006, 09:50:20 pm
[quote title=J.J. Blair wrote on Tue, 21 March 2006 15:57]I can't remember who here said they were at the show, but yeah, it ain't quite the Who with the other drummer.  The thing that is amazing though, is the way the band persevered through the situation.  I mean, talk about a morale killer, and these guys had their chin up and just kept rocking hard.  Far all they knew, Keith had just died.  

I was super impressed with how well Keith Played up until he succumbed to the tranqs.  I mean, wow.  It was really a great show up until that point.  


Yeah, that was me JJ.  I was there.  That was the thing that I remembered that stood out so much is how well he played until he just stopped.  

Apparently their's coordination and then theirs the mind. Laughing
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 28, 2006, 12:10:34 am
David, a what show you got to see!  They really rocked it for that first hour.  I'm terribly jealous.  I was like four years old at the time.

Somebody told me that they used to be Steve Gadd's "handler" or something like that.  Apparently at the time, Steve was plying himself with mass amounts of alcohol and other fun stuff.  Steve would be FUBAR'd to the point where he could barely walk.  I mean, like literally couldn't walk.  But he'd show up at a session, get behind the kit in that state, and not miss a fucking beat.
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: maxdimario on March 28, 2006, 02:45:50 am
In those days everybody was used to having to prove themselves and get themselves heard and appreciated.
the fact that the who were really big at the time I don't feel changed much, since they had gained tremendous success in a few years and were still riding on the energy and attitude that they acquired in the early mod days.

there was a lot of competition, a lot of fans, a lot of great artists, huge social movement, and money to burn in certain circles.

nowadays there's little to prove, and the audiences don't react on a spiritual level like they used to... maybe because there isn't any powerful spiritual message to react to...maybe because rock music is now a ...career opportunity?

Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: mitgong on March 28, 2006, 05:31:53 pm
J.J. Blair wrote on Tue, 21 March 2006 16:57



Bands just don't rock this hard anymore.  

Rock is dead they say.  



I always assume the person who says things like this doesn't go out to clubs anymore, or is going to the wrong clubs.  It's a pain in the ass, and sound sucks, and there are tons of crappy bands etc. etc. but if you just stick it out you'll stumble across the occasional epiphany.  The mainstream is irrelevent to it now, but rock and roll will never die.  

Holy crap I can't believe I just wrote that.
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 28, 2006, 06:49:52 pm
I own part of a night club.  Trust me.  It's dead.  At least this type of rock is.
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: wwittman on March 28, 2006, 07:06:09 pm
JJ you don't think bands such as Green Day or Taking Back Sunday have at least elements of that kind of rock?

Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: NelsonL on March 28, 2006, 07:21:03 pm
J.J. Blair wrote on Tue, 28 March 2006 15:49

I own part of a night club.  Trust me.  It's dead.  At least this type of rock is.


In LA? Anywhere we've heard of?
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 28, 2006, 09:04:26 pm
William, I'd have to say no to Green Day.  The closest I've seen to anything like that would have been Supergrass a few years ago, but it still lacks the pomp and absurdity that '70s rock had.  Rock stars are just not the mythical creatures they used to be, IMO.  Rock is a just a product to sell now.  I don't hear anything like when I listen to Mad Dogs and Englishmen.  That was music that made you believe in the "power of rock and roll".  Quadraphenia was one of those records, too.  There were others, too.  There's a couple of records recently that have had significant impacts on me, but none that made me believe in rock and roll the way the music of the '70s did.  That rock is indeed dead.  We have imitations.  I know that for sure, as I'm producing one.  But nothing that is as authentic as it was back then.

I'm not going to mention the name of the club, but a lot of bands have played there.
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: mitgong on March 28, 2006, 10:20:09 pm
J.J. Blair wrote on Tue, 28 March 2006 21:04

William, I'd have to say no to Green Day.  The closest I've seen to anything like that would have been Supergrass a few years ago, but it still lacks the pomp and absurdity that '70s rock had.  Rock stars are just not the mythical creatures they used to be, IMO.  Rock is a just a product to sell now.  I don't hear anything like when I listen to Mad Dogs and Englishmen.  That was music that made you believe in the "power of rock and roll".  Quadraphenia was one of those records, too.  There were others, too.  There's a couple of records recently that have had significant impacts on me, but none that made me believe in rock and roll the way the music of the '70s did.  That rock is indeed dead.  We have imitations.  I know that for sure, as I'm producing one.  But nothing that is as authentic as it was back then.

I'm not going to mention the name of the club, but a lot of bands have played there.


I think there is still music out there to make you believe in "the power of rock and roll".  Absolutely.  

I'm close to agreeing with you about the end of pomp and absurdity, but....well....no.  I don't agree.  I think the music is there, and the attitudes are there, but the support structure which actually allowed those bands to manifest their self-deluded grandiosity is gone.  The absurdity and pomp exists, but is certainly self-referential ("School of Rock" practially codifies it, and my kids now accept that as gospel).  So what?  When you're standing next to THE ROCK you know it.

The punk movement was about (among other things) stripping away the pomp to get at the rock it was starting to hide.  
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: David Ballenger on March 28, 2006, 11:35:36 pm
I see your posts JJ.  I believe you are a man that has a great taste for great rock.  I got to see a lot of the great classic acts.  Johnny Winter And Live at the Fillmore West.  Led Zeppelin at Kezar Stadium with a new band the Tubes. etc. etc.

I guess I showed my age.  I saw Alice Cooper at the Berkely Community Theatre at the front of the stage.  I was Eighteen and they played "I'm Eigteen".   Great show a classic performance with Alice being hung on stage for his dastardly deeds. Shocked
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 29, 2006, 01:08:25 am
Quote:

I think the music is there, and the attitudes are there, but the support structure which actually allowed those bands to manifest their self-deluded grandiosity is gone.


Well, I think you are right in the last part of what you say there.  Personally, I think rockstars should go back to fucking groupies with Mudsharks.  While we're at it, bring back the Plaster Casters and the Dallas Butter Queen.

As far as saying the music is there, I have one word: 1971.

Let's look at records that came out in 1971:  Zeppelin IV, Fragile, Every Picture Tells a Story, Imagine, Ram, All Things Must Pass,  Tapestry, Sticky Fingers, There's a Riot Goin' On, Just As I Am, What's Goin' On, Santana III, Teaser and the Firecat, and countless more that I can't think of right now.

We are lucky if we get even one record a year that can stand up with those ones.  And '69,'70,'72 and '73 weren't bad years either either.
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: mitgong on March 29, 2006, 11:22:51 am
J.J. Blair wrote on Wed, 29 March 2006 01:08


We are lucky if we get even one record a year that can stand up with those ones.



"On a label" you mean.  On a Label.

Those are great records, and they taught us what rock is.  By definition, anything similar today is derivative, and will get dissed as such.  Damned if it does, and if it doesn't.

Maybe what you're finding lacking lately is a sense of uncalculated joy.  That's always been the essential, often neglected ingredient in Rock n Roll.
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: PRobb on March 29, 2006, 12:35:50 pm
1971 is one year in a great era, but just look at what was in the top 25 in 1971.

1. Joy To The World, Three Dog Night
2. Maggie May / (Find A) Reason To Believe, Rod Stewart
3. It's Too Late / I Feel The Earth Move, Carole King
9. Just My Imagination (Running Away With Me), Temptations
11. Me And Bobby Mcgee, Janis Joplin
12. Tired Of Being Alone, Al Green
13. Want Ads, Honey Cone
14. Smiling Faces Sometimes, Undisputed Truth
16. You've Got A Friend, James Taylor
17. Mr. Big Stuff, Jean Knight
18. Brown Sugar, Rolling Stones
19. Do You Know What I Mean, Lee Michaels
21. What's Going On, Marvin Gaye
22. Uncle Albert-Admiral Halsey, Paul McCartney
23. Aint No Sunshine, Bill Withers

Look at the range. Al Green and James Taylor. Temptations and Rolling Stones. How many all-time great records are on that list? And that is pop radio. You would have heard all of that on the same station. Yeah- it was a great era.
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 29, 2006, 04:35:37 pm
I forgot another great 1971 record, which is fitting with the topic: Who's Next.

BTW, mitgong, you are partially true.  Most of the good music these days is not coming out on major labels, simply because it excludes having to have an A&R idiot telling you how to make your music.  But one of the other things that makes me say that rock is dead, is taht I'm not hearing the quality of songwriting that you will find from start to finish on the aforementioned albums.
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: PRobb on March 29, 2006, 05:17:51 pm
Not to belabor the point, but 1971 also had Van Morrison "Tupelo Honey", Black Sabbath "Paranoid", Jethro Tull "Aqualung", Joni Mitchell "Blue", David Bowie "Hunky Dory", Pink Floyd "Meddle" and The Doors "LA Woman".

Not a bad year.
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: mitgong on March 29, 2006, 05:23:08 pm
I'm willing to give up on 1971, but not rock and roll.

35 years ago.

35.

Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: vernier on March 29, 2006, 07:42:24 pm
'71 was post Buffalo Springfield and Beatles, among others ...I was bummed.
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: Tidewater on March 31, 2006, 07:39:02 am
Every Picture is one of my most favorite songs of all time. I love that song. It makes me happy for the rest of the day.


M
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: kats on April 05, 2006, 11:22:53 am
Quote:

But one of the other things that makes me say that rock is dead, is taht I'm not hearing the quality of songwriting that you will find from start to finish on the aforementioned albums


It really shouldn't suprise anyone. What form of pop music has gone on to forge new grounds generation after generation as they did during the height of it's popularity? None really. From classical music to jazz, blues, latin.... the list goes on. The art forms get explored close to their limits during the height of their popularity. Once in awhile a new artist comes out and puts a twist on things and you get a short lived revivial, but it goes back to the classics. Orchestras still earn their bread and butter playing the classics - same thing in jazz, and blues is mostly there.

In rock, there's just no room (or need) for twenty new releases a year - it's been covered and gone through most of it's movements and sub catagories. It's passion and genus spoke to a different generation. If no new rock songs were ever written again, we'd do fine with the existing catalogue.

The only demad left is for a band young kids could relate to and hero worship, buy their t-shirts and cd's, and put their posters on the walls, until they grow out of it. We don't need new rock tunes, we put them out there simply to facilitate merchandizing and advertizing for a certain demographic.

Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: rankus on April 05, 2006, 06:31:35 pm


Man, reading those lists of tunes from 1971 literally brings tears to my eyes... what a wonderful time in history.. I miss the hell out of it!

Oh yeah... what about Dark Side of The Moon.... around that time I recall?

I am currently working on a project that takes "inspiration" from that era, and I have found true joy in the studio because of it... Re-living the feeling that started me on the path to recording...  Hopefully there will be a retro movement of that period.  Keep up the good work JJ, you are raising awareness!
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: kats on April 05, 2006, 10:17:15 pm
Quote:

Hopefully there will be a retro movement of that period.


More and more I believe that lyrical content that speaks to the generation is going to be the deciding factor of whether or not new versions of the genre will have any revelance.
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: J.J. Blair on April 05, 2006, 11:00:20 pm
I am doing a very retro 1973 record.  Now we just have to see if label idiots get it.  The last A&R type I met with liked the music but thought the band was "too old".  I pointed out that the Dorkness weren't exactly young guys, and why the fuck does age matter anyway?
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: wwittman on April 06, 2006, 09:54:28 am
I've never met a listener/consumer/fan who thought the age of the band mattered... but (often aging) A&R weasels do.

I really do think it's because deep inside they are desperately afraid that THEY are out of touch with the marketplace and so they're quick to call others "too old"
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: Bob Olhsson on April 06, 2006, 12:28:41 pm
1971 was when 16 track came into full bloom however most of the artists had been signed during 4 and 8 track days. At that time there wasn't a lot you could do to fix bad performances without spending a fortune so you had to be pretty good in order to be considered worth recording.
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: danickstr on April 07, 2006, 08:06:33 am
We were much younger in 1971 so this is a factor.  I am a lot more jaded since then.  Young punks in bands don't have the ability to awe me like they did when I was 8 years old.  once that happens, I am not sure the perspective can be judged equally.
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: kats on April 07, 2006, 10:48:28 am
Quote:

I've never met a listener/consumer/fan who thought the age of the band mattered... but (often aging) A&R weasels do.


I'd like to think that too at 41 years old  Very Happy But as my publisher friend reminded me, people my age don't buy many records - and when they do, it's mostly older stuff.

Rock & Roll was never just about the music. It was also about the attitude, the times, and very rebelious in nature. Sure you can find some 60 year old hippies who smoke pot and still hate "the man", but you have to admit - it's a harder sell to the buying public  Laughing
Title: balls to the wall, brass for the fall
Post by: dubrichie on April 07, 2006, 05:23:00 pm
hey all,

first post here for me and i'm gonna be a brave little brass monkey.

to all of you who proclaim that rock and roll is dead i say bollocks.

it's alive and kicking for people like me.

in fairness, i am 23, so with all due respect, just because you've tired of it now that you're in your 40's doesn't mean that it doesn't still mean the world to someone else.

it is probable that '71 was just about the pinnacle of rock and roll's golden age, but this still remains to be proven unequivocally, which will take many more years than you and perhaps even i will see.

you don't think bands like the kings of leon, the zutons, the white stripes, the muggs, razorlight, the strokes, dfa 1979, etc. have any real rock and roll in them? you don't think it pumps through their veins just as hot as it did yours all those years ago?

well give us pups a break, it's a very different world we're growing up in and trying to give it all up in or haven't you noticed? there's been a lot of shite in the past 25 years that we're trying to scrub away from our impressionable music-making instincts... and how much of that shite might some of you fine old gents have had a hand in producing?

i live in dublin, ireland and there is a healthy rock and roll scene here these days. check out bands like humanzi, the things, the immediate, the mighty stef, the urges and my own current pride and joy the heathens (we're all on myspace btw)

if you think we're all full of shite then shite is what you see and shite is what you hear which is your problem and for shame, you have my deepest sympathies.

rock and fucking roll,

regards,

richie.

(apologies for such a rant on my first post, but rock and roll means a lot to me, more than the rest of what i could do with my life, so that being pissed on by guys in their 40s who've just plain had enough got my balls in a right knot. and it's friday night and pissing rain and i'm too broke to be out in the pub with the lads in the band so what do you expect? YMMV eh?)
Title: Re: balls to the wall, brass for the fall
Post by: J.J. Blair on April 07, 2006, 08:14:49 pm
Thanks for bringing it, Richie.  That's what rock and roll is about.
Title: Re: balls to the wall, brass for the fall
Post by: danickstr on April 08, 2006, 08:38:42 am
hey richie turn that passion into music and shut up any naysayers you encounter through sheer rock and roll willpower. Twisted Evil
Title: Re: balls to the wall, brass for the fall
Post by: dubrichie on April 08, 2006, 12:14:16 pm
i'm workin on it!

I'M WORKIN ON IT!

i only play the drums right now but i'm starting the bass on monday. yes really, monday!

i would love some feedback on our tunes i've recorded so far on my fledgling rig, available at http://www.myspace.com/theheathensmusic either from a musical or a technical (recording/mixing) perspective. be sure to download the "high quality mp3s" (oxymoron or what) because the myspace streaming player sounds terrible.

and by the way, no, not just anybody can play the drums!

regards,

richie.
Title: Re: balls to the wall, brass for the fall
Post by: danickstr on April 08, 2006, 12:27:18 pm
just listened to a bit of changing ways and i gotta say it really has a good edge to it, and i am not easily swayed to compliment indy shit.  you guys have a shot at making something people will want to listen to.  i hate shitty production but that is because i am a jaded old bastard.  this stuff a bit cleaner would probably rock.  hire wwittman for 10 g's a pop. Shocked
Title: Re: balls to the wall, brass for the fall
Post by: dubrichie on April 08, 2006, 01:51:56 pm
thnaks man,

much appreciated.

you should check out the other two tunes, they are both stronger songs in my opinion, more to them musically.

i know the production aint perfect, but like i said, i did it all myself on less than stellar gear in less than stellar rooms and in less than ideal working conditions (deadlines, etc.)

i'm just starting out and am learning all the time.

i'm really hoping to upgrade my preamps and converters ASAP.

thanks again though,

and, eh, ROCK AND ROLL!

*ahem*

regards,

richie.
Title: Re: balls to the wall, brass for the fall
Post by: mitgong on April 09, 2006, 10:47:00 am
dubrichie wrote on Fri, 07 April 2006 17:23

hey all,

first post here for me and i'm gonna be a brave little brass monkey.

to all of you who proclaim that rock and roll is dead i say bollocks.

it's alive and kicking for people like me.

in fairness, i am 23, so with all due respect, just because you've tired of it now that you're in your 40's doesn't mean that it doesn't still mean the world to someone else.

it is probable that '71 was just about the pinnacle of rock and roll's golden age, but this still remains to be proven unequivocally, which will take many more years than you and perhaps even i will see.

you don't think bands like the kings of leon, the zutons, the white stripes, the muggs, razorlight, the strokes, dfa 1979, etc. have any real rock and roll in them? you don't think it pumps through their veins just as hot as it did yours all those years ago?

well give us pups a break, it's a very different world we're growing up in and trying to give it all up in or haven't you noticed? there's been a lot of shite in the past 25 years that we're trying to scrub away from our impressionable music-making instincts... and how much of that shite might some of you fine old gents have had a hand in producing?

i live in dublin, ireland and there is a healthy rock and roll scene here these days. check out bands like humanzi, the things, the immediate, the mighty stef, the urges and my own current pride and joy the heathens (we're all on myspace btw)

if you think we're all full of shite then shite is what you see and shite is what you hear which is your problem and for shame, you have my deepest sympathies.

rock and fucking roll,

regards,

richie.

(apologies for such a rant on my first post, but rock and roll means a lot to me, more than the rest of what i could do with my life, so that being pissed on by guys in their 40s who've just plain had enough got my balls in a right knot. and it's friday night and pissing rain and i'm too broke to be out in the pub with the lads in the band so what do you expect? YMMV eh?)


You got a floor to sleep on, if you're ever in my town.  http://www.myspace.com/mofos
Title: Re: balls to the wall, brass for the fall
Post by: dubrichie on April 09, 2006, 01:55:48 pm
dig your bad self matt,

i hope to have the opportunity to take you up on that some time and to reciprocate the offer.

i'll add the mofos to the heathens myspace friends thing.

regards,

richie.
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: David Ballenger on April 09, 2006, 10:37:00 pm
Ageism sucks.  Imagine hearing the glee some feel on the fact that you're over the hill.  Maybe someday they'll come for you.  Tell you when you're to old to play or that you're irrelevant.  The walking dead.

People are playing regardless of the manipulations, anyway.  Don't buy into it from wherever you're at.  Just find some people that you can play with and get the joy there.
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: Roadster on April 10, 2006, 02:20:39 pm
It's always interesting reading threads like this because it tends to remind me that the 60's and 70's, although seemingly a renaissance in music, was in essence the soundtrack of my youth. You need to keep that in mind when you're comparing era's, trends, etc. There will never be anything quite as cool as when you were younger and living the high life so to speak.  
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: David Ballenger on April 15, 2006, 03:32:26 pm
Back to the original post question.  "Can anybody play the drums?"   My drummer is a monster.  If I play any Led Zeppelin song he just drops into any Bonham beat with natural ease.  Anything I would seemingly want to do.  He does more intricacy inside of a groove with ease then most drummers have the ability to get a groove right.  

Although I've been lucky in dealing and playing with lots of great drummers.  Through rehearsal spaces and affiliated recording studios.  Over 500 bands I've dealt with.  Newbies to platinum sellers.  My problem is me.  Self production.  It's a bitch.  Went into it youthfully with grand concepts.  Now I'm beaten down a little bit. Very Happy

It turns out I wasn't as sharp as I'd hoped to be.  

I'm reminded of the book "Old Man and The Sea" by Ernest Hemingway.
Imagine now days with all the cruise ships and the huge industry of trawlers.

I still come back to this one concept though.  1/7 th.  1/7 th is an arbitrary number I've come up to describe what goes on in a production.  I mean you have all the instruments,  drums, bass, guitars, keyboards, vocals, etc. etc.  You have Songwriting, lyrics, vocals, arrangements, orchestration, engineering, business.  So if each band member is 1/4 of the group efforts this adds up to..................................  maths don't fail me now.  

Well it don't add up.  My point is no matter how badass any one musician is in the midst of production it's just a percentange of the overall effort.  Not to trivialize it.  

Now I feel I'm the poster boy for "don't try this kids".    Oh well. I think I meant well.


Rolling Eyes
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: Brian Kehew on April 15, 2006, 07:52:46 pm
Good thread. Now cyclically back to topic!...

The Who - I see them quite often (dozens of times a year now) from working with them. Pete Townshend and Roger Daltrey still "bring it" each night. (Did you see Live 8 or the NYC concert?) They worry about a good performance, they sweat and push to make it exciting and rough each night. They do NOT WANT polish and perfection. Pete often (often) bleeds onstage from playing the guitar so hard, at age 60. How many 20-year-olds do?
Their new music is recorded, I am told it's hard and heavy. Waiting...

I see new music all the time, I crave it. Not much is that good, but sometimes I see things that blow my mind; As good as it gets, whatever IT is. One week ago, I saw the best concert of my life at the Knitting Factory. Several other (old) people said the same thing. And the band was NOT exceptional twice before this year.

It can still happen, it still does. Contribute your part...
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: bushwick on April 15, 2006, 08:14:12 pm
For the most part I have been very, very lucky to have some of the best drummers in NYC through here and it really makes the sound come alive. Very similar signal chains on lesser players just don't go as far as they do with great players. The job becomes very easy, to the point of joy.

josh
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: David Ballenger on April 16, 2006, 05:45:11 am
I did catch a little of Live 8.  It's always great to see the Who.  Look forward to hearing the new album.

Thanks for the positive words, Brian.

Hope is like sunshine.  Makes things grow.

Yeah, Bushwick.  I love to listen to my drummer just play, it's amazing to me to see the kind of coordination that some are capable of.
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: ted nightshade on June 06, 2006, 08:10:32 pm
I was so moved by all that killer old music, from the best Ellington to the best old-time country to the best Rock and oh yeah the old Rock&Roll too- when I hear Little Richard sing Good Golly Miss Molly, now THAT is SINGING! Fuck yeah!

It changed my life, I spent my whole life making myself worthy of all that, finally accomplished it, and it seems like nobody gives a flying fuck. People are after a million things with music, but very very few of us play like our very souls depend on it, and very few people seem to need that- although the ones that do, and I must be one, need it really bad...


I constantly encounter the attitude about the great old acid rock stuff, "oh yeah, I was really into that when I was a teenager, but I grew out of it."

What's to grow out of?! I don't get it. I wonder if these guys and gals were ever hearing and feeling what I heard and felt. Of course the crap these guys and gals are into now is just worlds safer, more predictable, less passionate, and wouldn't do a damn thing for me on a day when I'm ready to kill myself but I put on "Nothing Left" (Johnny Winter And) and all of a sudden I'm ready to go tear the whole damned world down instead!

I used to write love letters to Jimi Hendrix- nobody else seemed to have any idea what life was about. I had a hell of a time relating to anybody else... but other greats wandered into that zone in a blessed, lucky, once in a lifetime moment.

It's hell of fucking lonely to love the music like I do... thanks folks for making it a little less that way.
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: J.J. Blair on June 06, 2006, 10:55:30 pm
Ted, welcome back!
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: Kurt Foster on June 08, 2006, 06:43:11 pm
Keith Moon played drum like no one else ...and no one ever will! Same as Hendrix. These guys both had a style that will never be duplicated again.

Keith Moon is my personal favorite drummer of all time. I was disappointed when the WHO continued on without Keith. They should have done what Zeppelin did when Bonham passed away and retired the band. That was a class thing to do.

As far as substance abuse ... I have met or seen in my life just a few players who could perform quite well under the influence. I used to work with a steel guitar player (well actually he played just about everything) that did just that. One night we were playing at a club and people kept sending shots for the band. I had to stop after a few and let them stack up on the mains but Barry kept on shooting them down, with no obvious effect. He played and sang perfectly the whole set. When we we were finished, he stood up and fell flat on his face ....

I was on the bus of a very famous star once for several hours prior to a show and observed him drink a fifth of Seagrams 7 and whiff a mountain of coke ... all with seemingly no effect. He went to the stage and played and sang every song perfectly.

Some people can handle it but most can't. Some people have the music so deeply ingrained into their soul, no amount of "medication" can make them flub up or stumble. It's like breathing to them. The mistake a lot of people make is to think they are like that too. Truth is it's the exception, not the norm.
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: mitgong on June 09, 2006, 11:57:06 am
Brian Kehew wrote on Sat, 15 April 2006 19:52

One week ago, I saw the best concert of my life at the Knitting Factory. Several other (old) people said the same thing. And the band was NOT exceptional twice before this year.



Do tell, please.
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: Brian Kehew on June 11, 2006, 10:25:12 pm
Wow - it's hard to say this without "you hadda be there", but... it's an OLD band called Zolar X. They recently reunited and I've seen several shows. They wear funny suits and have funny voices, but it ROCKS. On this night, it far surpassed their records of the 70s. It was mostly new material. I was with youngish people who KNOW rock history and a few older folks who have "been there". Almost all of us had the same opinion of the show. As good as it gets!
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: mitgong on June 12, 2006, 02:24:13 pm
Brian Kehew wrote on Sun, 11 June 2006 22:25

Wow - it's hard to say this without "you hadda be there", but... it's an OLD band called Zolar X. They recently reunited and I've seen several shows. They wear funny suits and have funny voices, but it ROCKS. On this night, it far surpassed their records of the 70s. It was mostly new material. I was with youngish people who KNOW rock history and a few older folks who have "been there". Almost all of us had the same opinion of the show. As good as it gets!


Just did a search.  They are awesome.  Thanks.
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: Pingu on June 14, 2006, 04:00:16 pm
J.J. Blair wrote on Wed, 22 March 2006 05:57

 

Bands just don't rock this hard anymore.  There are no real rockstars anymore, either.  Not that it was good to live a lifestyle like that, but anybody that tries that shit anymore just seems like a pale imitation of bands like the Who, the Stones and Zeppelin, that wrote the book on that.  

Rock is dead they say.  I knew it for a fact when I was seeing McCartney and the security people made everybody stop using their lighters during "Let It Be".  




You summed up how i feel, well.

This is what i miss to.

Another example is Phil Lynot.
Man did he rock out.
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: bushwick on June 14, 2006, 04:49:57 pm
I have Keith Carlock in again next weekend with some bad mofos and he can play pretty well. Fact is, I have recorded lots of great drummers and plenty of not-so-hot fellas. The answer is, yes, there are plenty of folks who can play quite well and they are almost always working. The trick is getting folks to hire them.

j
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: Bob_Vandiver on June 21, 2006, 02:21:55 am
Somebody asked if there are any retro bands out there. Check out World Party!

Bob Vandiver
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: McAllister on July 03, 2006, 09:15:18 am
I have a few friends who are top-notch drummers. Some of them even come over and record with me for free.

Yes, I am truly blessed.

And if they can't bring what I feel is needed to the session, this town is filled with otehr guys who can.

Despite hell-ish summers, Austin does have it's benefits.

Quote:

It's hell of fucking lonely to love the music like I do... thanks folks for making it a little less that way.


Welcome to the lifeboat, man.

M
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: maxdimario on July 03, 2006, 01:23:50 pm
the thing I like about keith is he played the kit with his whole body... including his face.... er .. what I mean is he approached every single hit as an event, like he was hitting or slapping somebody or something.

he was good at busting and hitting stuff.
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: Ali Moniack on July 06, 2006, 03:23:57 am
If no new rock songs were ever written again, we'd do fine with the existing catalogue.


Bands just don't rock this hard anymore. There are no real rockstars anymore, either. Not that it was good to live a lifestyle like that, but anybody that tries that shit anymore just seems like a pale imitation of bands like the Who, the Stones and Zeppelin, that wrote the book on that. Rock is dead they say. I knew it for a fact when I was seeing McCartney and the security people made everybody stop using their lighters during "Let It Be". 


This is all total rubbish. The good stuff's underground. When the High Numbers became The Who again London was their oyster, it was a different time when rock'nroll innovation WAS pop music, & now innovative, well-played rock'n'roll exists on the fringes of what is acceptable. Back then, in general the standard of playing was better because musicians had to live offa shows. It sucks now but i've had the privelige of working with the two best drummers in my country and these guys are the natural inheritors of the Moon/Bonham legacy, from a school of classic British (exploding) drummers.

As far as hard-hitting rock goes-these things still exist (incuding bands as skilled/fuked up as the who, believe me) but you gotta dig deep. Underground is where it all started, it's still there. If you don't believe me, i'll show you some new hard rockin' shit to prove it. The "Its all been dun" shit don't wash, it's a cop-out. You're missing the action. It's rare but it's out there, don't worry. We just gotta bring it back home. Give it five years.

Don't give up on The Rock!
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: J.J. Blair on July 06, 2006, 03:12:33 pm
Naaah.  There IS some great stuff out there.  I'm just saying that I don't thinnk we'll ever see it on the level it was at where rock and roll was a life or death high wire act on and off the stage, like in the early '70s.  That's like saying there's another Rat Pack or something.  Sure there's some great rock out there, but there's NOTHING like the Who in their prime on or off the stage.  

Rockstars used to be mythical beings.  Particularly in England, where their status shattered the class system and threatened to pull it down around the establishment's ears.  Rich twenty somethings crashing Bentleys into their swimming pools, destroying hotel rooms, shagging a dozen groupies at a time (sometimes with a mudshark), flying around in private jets, destroying gear on stage and making some of the most enduring music ever.  Where is THAT in this day and age?
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: wwittman on July 06, 2006, 07:03:28 pm
Yes, there are still some good bands but rock just isn't IMPORTANT the way it was.

I miss that.

or at least as near as I can remember....
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: Roadster on July 06, 2006, 09:33:28 pm
Quote:

NOTHING like the Who in their prime on or off the stage.


Can anybody play the drums?

Apparently Mike Meyers playing Keith Moon in an upcoming movie?

Hollywood is so out of stories.  
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: Ali Moniack on July 07, 2006, 11:29:53 am
"there's NOTHING like the Who in their prime on or off the stage."

check out these guys vids. You kinda have to be at the show to get the full effect, but you get the idea from the clips. Heavier than The Who but similar onstage vibe.

http://www.myspace.com/gorilla

They drive to the pub in a milkfloat baby!
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: J.J. Blair on July 07, 2006, 05:56:30 pm
I see that Billy Gorilla has stolen some of Pete's moves, as well as the Gibson SG Special.  Points for picking good influences.

From listening to their mp3s and watching their videos though, bands like Mother Superior have the edge, IMO.  But as much as I love Mother Superior, they will be the first to tell you that they don't measure up to the Who or Led Zeppelin in their hey day either.
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: PookyNMR on July 08, 2006, 12:50:07 am
wwittman wrote on Thu, 06 July 2006 17:03

Yes, there are still some good bands but rock just isn't IMPORTANT the way it was.


I think that's cause rock stars have less 'personality' and less authenticity today.

Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: Ali Moniack on July 08, 2006, 10:03:53 pm
"But as much as I love Mother Superior, they will be the first to tell you that they don't measure up to the Who or Led Zeppelin in their hey day either. "

Point taken dude, I'm sure Gorilla would say the same thing themselves. There's other bands who arent as directly inspired by the Who (that's far from their only influence), I just mentioned these guys as an obvious comparison, and because they really do rock, no safety net required.

The industry has to take some blame for this stuff as well as musicians, they're not all bad.
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: David Ballenger on July 08, 2006, 11:36:36 pm
PookyNMR wrote on Fri, 07 July 2006 23:50

wwittman wrote on Thu, 06 July 2006 17:03

Yes, there are still some good bands but rock just isn't IMPORTANT the way it was.


I think that's cause rock stars have less 'personality' and less authenticity today.




I'd agree it all seemed much more flamboyant at other times.  Theatre in Rock.  My knee jerk reaction is to say their is to much emphasis on violent sensationalism acting as true social commentary out there but hey I don't want to get shot.  LOL

I'm predicting that rock music is getting ready to come back in a big way.  All these bands, just the sheer number is mindboggling.  Some of these bands are gonna mature into some really seriously talented acts.  I think things come in waves and there's a big one becoming overdue again.  

Everyone I know is still into music...  and everybody knows what they really buy is what they bought.  And that stretches endless miles back before whatever is the current top 40.  They want GREAT variety as usual.
Title: Re: "Can anybody play the drums?"
Post by: Scratchy Potts on July 11, 2006, 04:54:17 pm
Quote:

Somebody asked if there are any retro bands out there. Check out World Party!


Bob Vandiver

Bang!!! Goodbye Jumbo....very good albums ,,, Cool
Robbie Williams covered She`s the one from the Egyptology album IIRC