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R/E/P => Mastering Dynamics => Topic started by: bblackwood on April 10, 2011, 09:22:19 pm

Title: WaveBurner DDP images
Post by: bblackwood on April 10, 2011, 09:22:19 pm
Originally Posted by: biigniick on Fri, 25 February 2011

for the guys using waveburner, i've noticed a glitch (or user error) that leads to a 25 frame difference from what waveburner burns and what is on the DDP image. burning a disc straight from waveburner is exactly what plays in the program, but open the DDP with PMCD or WaveLab or burn discs from the DDP with either program is different.
is this user error? where can i look to fix it? does this behavior happen on other systems?
WB 1.6.1 (all CDDA offsets set to 0)
 WaveLab 7
 PMCD 3.1.1
thanks in advance,
- nick

Nick Landis

Title: Re: WaveBurner DDP images
Post by: bradsarno on May 17, 2011, 01:16:52 pm
I just ran into this yesterday. It was mildly nightmarish for me as I had Decca breathing down my neck to meet a deadline for a Broadway musical (How To Suceed in Business Without Really Trying) to reach its deadline. The WB session was fine and would burn CD's fine, but the DDP shifted each track marker a bit late, seemed to me to be more than 25 frames, and the shift amount seemed to drift or grow a bit toward the end of the 32 track project. I had to go in in literally move each track marker earlier and then create the DDP to make sure the track starts weren't being chopped. It really sucked.

I'm so mad at Apple/WB because the features in Waveburner are wonderful for this particular type of project where I have the show producer sitting here having me do all kinds of subtle automations of level and EQ and compression to help the whole musical show flow properly. I just can't get this feature set anywhere else in the Mac world. If Waveburner could fix its lethal bugs, it would be stellar and may someday even become "professional" software.

Apple, for crap's sake, please fix your DDP nightmare. And while you're at it, why don't you allow for fine adjustment of automation levels. We mastering engineers like to work in 1/10 dB increments, not huge, coarse amounts. That's not for the needs of pro's.

Brad Sarno
Blue Jade Audio Mastering
St. Louis, MO
Title: Re: WaveBurner DDP images
Post by: Twerk on May 19, 2011, 02:22:26 am
Also be careful of how CD Text is handled with WB DDP file sets. It will add "?" to any field you leave blank for Performer, Songwriter, Composer, etc.

Try opening a Waveburner created DDP file set in Sonoris or Backline to see what I'm talking about.
Title: Re: WaveBurner DDP images
Post by: bradsarno on May 19, 2011, 06:06:59 pm
I just laid into Apple/Waveburner over at their discussion department, hoping someone of significance will read it. I have a love-hate relationship with Waveburner. It's really got some amazing functionality. The way I work, I do the real mastering in a DAW with a hybrid of digtal and analog gear, but I don't print the peak limiter. Then I pull the collection of nearly-mastered files into SoundBlade or Waveburner where I have the ability to still apply tweaks as I assemble the entire album or project. It also makes it very easy to apply subtle digital tweaks if a client wants some changes made without having to set up and recall the entire analog mastering session. Waveburner's efficiency and functionality is great, offers all kinds of deep automation (albeit too coarse in the adjustment), and yes, this question mark in the CD text is also a bugger to be addressed. I feel like someone needs to light a fire under the right person's ass over at Apple and do something constructive with these issues. Seems that with some serious care and attention, they can make Waveburner truly pro someday. Their plug-in implementation is worlds more friendly, flexible, and stable than in SoundBlade 1 and 2beta.

C'mon Apple. Take WB seriously and then we might too.

Brad Sarno

Title: Re: WaveBurner DDP images
Post by: Twerk on May 19, 2011, 06:50:37 pm
Amen, Brad. If it had even a fraction of the development Logic gets, I'm sure we'd have little to complain about. I did a brief stint working at Apple in a pro audio related dept. and I've still got a lot of friends there, one of them being the Logic product manager. I'm going to ring him up and see if I can find out anything.
Title: Re: WaveBurner DDP images
Post by: bradsarno on May 19, 2011, 07:37:54 pm
That would be great if they took a bit more interest in fixing and refining WB. It's really a stunningly thorough tool with great workflow and functionality. It would be good to know that someday it could have the kind of math and precision and stability mastering engineers desire and demand. They seem SO close with it. And again, to me it's a final tool, not my main mastering tool. It's a handy assembly and tweak and final peak limit/dither, PQ (and hopefully DDP creation) stage for me.

Keep us posted.

Title: Re: WaveBurner DDP images
Post by: Twerk on May 23, 2011, 07:58:40 pm
Took a while to hear back as he's been pretty slammed at work but here's what I found out. First off, their department is severely undermanned and while they did just get an extra person to help out, they're basically working with a very tiny team to handle some very large applications. The same guys that handle Waveburner, also deal with Logic, Main Stage, Garage Band, etc. So it's been a matter of prioritizing what little budget they have for those apps and how best to work to appease the highest number of users. He did mention the importance of using their feedback system to report bugs. I mentioned a few of the ones noted here, and he was able to confirm their existence in the database. Unfortunately, he had no definitive answer as to when they might fix some of these things due to the reasons above but they don't seem to be abandoning it and he was actually pretty happy to hear people care about it. Sorry I didn't have better news!
Title: Re: WaveBurner DDP images
Post by: bradsarno on May 23, 2011, 11:40:44 pm
Thanks for that info. It's great to get a glimpse of operations over there, but it's sad that they're under manned and under supported for this stuff. Seems like Apple could afford a few more guys to help share the load and get things going better. But I'm glad he/they care. That is at least a little encouraging. I sure wish they had a crack team that just lived it, full on dedicated to making Waveburner amazing. We'll see what happens.

Question, when he referred to the feedback system for bug reports, was he talking about that apple support forum, or is there a more direct method of bug reporting over there?

Title: Re: WaveBurner DDP images
Post by: Twerk on May 24, 2011, 12:13:41 am
I'm fairly certain he meant this:

Title: Re: WaveBurner DDP images
Post by: bradsarno on May 24, 2011, 11:30:39 am
OK, good deal. That's where I've been hammering them.


Title: Re: WaveBurner DDP images
Post by: BiigNiick on May 26, 2011, 05:04:11 pm
i didn't even notice this was my old topic   ::)

i just gave 2 topics a bump with info on the forums.  hopefully an update will fix these issues.

i can get around some of the CD-Text issues by burning the DDP with WaveLab. . . but ? still show up in empty fields

 - nick