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R/E/P => R/E/P Archives => j. hall => Topic started by: stuntbutt on February 23, 2006, 07:20:46 pm

Title: Thoughts on Cue
Post by: stuntbutt on February 23, 2006, 07:20:46 pm
I am very interested to know Steve's thoughts on cue systems.  Multi-channel phones, everyone on the same stereo cue, speakers?  What methods do you think work best?

Thank you so much for sharing.

John
Title: Re: Thoughts on Cue
Post by: Fig on March 03, 2006, 04:14:48 pm
<bump>

Inquiring minds want to know...
Title: Re: Thoughts on Cue
Post by: drumsound on March 04, 2006, 07:40:11 pm

When I was at Electrical a few years ago they had the less- expensive Furman "self- mixing system."
Title: Re: Thoughts on Cue
Post by: nortstudio on March 28, 2010, 11:28:31 am
Giving bands as many options for themselves makes your life a lot easier.  As long as you can explain to them how to use the damn things, personal headphones boxes make life simpler.

I have been using the Furmann HR -6 (6 inputs - 4 mono, 1 stereo) models for 10 years, and the cost to headache value is amazing!
Title: Re: Thoughts on Cue
Post by: jchristopherhughes on March 29, 2010, 01:04:09 pm
i have found the same.

the basic furman system provides a nice balance between just sending a stereo mix...and each member having full control of the mix.

i find with 90% of the projects i do...a solid stereo mix...with the ability for the musicians to add a bit more of 4 other sources...usually works great.

often times, i've used larger systems..and while they are certainly really nice...most musicians who do not do studio work all the time often get overwhelmed and spend more time playing with the knobs than concentrating on a part.

the only other system i've been curious about is the hearback rig.  i do find that often i wish i could have just 2 more inputs when i am tracking a larger band.  most of my work consists of bands tracking live together.

so...stereo mix.
drum mix (mono...with mostly kick.snare.hat)
bass gtr
gtr 1
gtr 2
keys
vox
clik (if used....or additional instruments)

this would be ideal for me.

i find that most musicians don't care about having total control over the individual mics on a kit....

they just want it to sound good.  and often...loud.

anyone have experience with the hearback system ?

best,

jchristopherhughes
Title: Re: Thoughts on Cue
Post by: jchristopherhughes on March 29, 2010, 01:05:46 pm
ps.

john-john....is that you ?  (stuntbutt)

best,

jch
Title: Re: Thoughts on Cue
Post by: compasspnt on March 29, 2010, 02:45:55 pm
We had the smaller Furman system here for years in Studio A, and still have it now moved into our Studio B

But recently we got the larger Furman 16 system for A...man, what a huge difference.

It is so much better.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Cue
Post by: maarvold on March 29, 2010, 06:03:46 pm
compasspnt wrote on Mon, 29 March 2010 11:45

We had the smaller Furman system here for years in Studio A, and still have it now moved into our Studio B

But recently we got the larger Furman 16 system for A...man, what a huge difference.

It is so much better.




I used to work at a place that had the small Furman system.  I could just never fully get what I felt the players needed on the pots--not quite enough flexibility.  And I don't know if they had it set up wrong, but the thing had no headroom--it would distort at just slightly above normal levels.  In my [limited] experience with it, the big system seems MUCH better: more flexible and a lot more guts headroom-wise.  Mytek Private Q is also good in both flexibility and headroom.  
Title: Re: Thoughts on Cue
Post by: craig boychuk on March 30, 2010, 10:05:54 am
maarvold wrote on Mon, 29 March 2010 17:03


I used to work at a place that had the small Furman system.  I could just never fully get what I felt the players needed on the pots--not quite enough flexibility.  And I don't know if they had it set up wrong, but the thing had no headroom--it would distort at just slightly above normal levels.  In my [limited] experience with it, the big system seems MUCH better: more flexible and a lot more guts headroom-wise...



This is also my experience. I track a lot of really loud bands, and could never get the level I needed out of it. No headroom at all. Plus, those cat5/RJ-45 connections are a total disaster. The connectors were constantly breaking. As gear that will typically see a lot of hours on duty, it could really use something more robust for the connections.

ugh.


-craig-
Title: Re: Thoughts on Cue
Post by: j.hall on March 30, 2010, 12:43:12 pm
cat 5 is pretty tough to beat as far as what it can offer in signal distribution and bandwidth.  the connectors do indeed suck for what we do.  neutrik "ethercon" connectors should be standard for all pro audio/studio gear that requires the use of CAT 5.


BTW, we use the small furman here.  haven't had a complaint yet.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Cue
Post by: compasspnt on March 30, 2010, 08:53:47 pm
j.hall wrote on Tue, 30 March 2010 12:43

BTW, we use the small furman here.  haven't had a complaint yet.



Unless you let them use the big one, and then go back...
Title: Re: Thoughts on Cue
Post by: meverylame on March 31, 2010, 01:19:11 am
compasspnt wrote on Tue, 30 March 2010 20:53

j.hall wrote on Tue, 30 March 2010 12:43

BTW, we use the small furman here.  haven't had a complaint yet.



Unless you let them use the big one, and then go back...



Just did a session on the big one. LOVED.

The talkback on every mixer is what sold me.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Cue
Post by: bradwood on March 31, 2010, 07:09:01 pm
I've been using the small Furman system since 2000 & while I loathe the Cat5 connectors (which break easily), the system works well as long as you label correctly & "educate" your clients constantly on how to use it. No headroom issues. I'd love to graduate to the bigger Furman system, but as I mostly mix these days, I can't justify the expense.

Best- Brad
Title: Re: Thoughts on Cue
Post by: j.hall on March 31, 2010, 09:53:44 pm
talk back on every box?????!!!!!!

i'm sold!

although, drums and acoustic guitars are the only thing on the other side of the glass.  so communication is pretty simple.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Cue
Post by: meverylame on March 31, 2010, 11:21:19 pm
j.hall wrote on Wed, 31 March 2010 21:53

talk back on every box?????!!!!!!

i'm sold!

although, drums and acoustic guitars are the only thing on the other side of the glass.  so communication is pretty simple.



Even cooler the "brain" unit sums them all to one line level output.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Cue
Post by: compasspnt on April 01, 2010, 08:09:57 pm
Yes, the big Furman box has a talkback switch on each box.  It can be routed to *) Only the control room, or *) To control room AND every other box, via an internal jumper in the brain.  Then you patch the talkback-from-boxes into a desk fader, and you are REALLY good-to-go.

Also each box has a talkback return pot...this can come from your desk's talkback/cue output, and if the jumper is switched, will also hear the talkback from all other boxes.

There is also an effect send and return on each box.

Much more power, TEN more inputs, heavy cable with Centronics 50 pin connectors.

Built-in TT and 1/4" patchbays on the front of the Brain.

It is so much better, I almost get physically ill now when I have to use the small system.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Cue
Post by: don kerce on April 01, 2010, 11:12:32 pm
I just want to preface this by saying everyone is different.

As a bass player, I really hate showing up to a session and seeing those humongous Furmans. It means I'm going to be spending time getting a functional mix even though it'll never be right because tones are changing after every song. I want a 2 mix with an engineer who knows what a band will need to hear. And that's pretty much that. Thank you very next.

d
Title: Re: Thoughts on Cue
Post by: compasspnt on April 02, 2010, 12:08:42 am
Yes, but if they use it correctly, that's what you should get...

A near-perfect stereo mix on a stereo cue, and then any individual things you or someone else might want to add in.

Or not.

Title: Re: Thoughts on Cue
Post by: Podgorny on April 02, 2010, 08:59:15 am
Don's sentiments echo almost every player in Nashville.  NOBODY likes the mini-mixers as much as a good-sounding old school cue system with  good amp, and a good 2-mix.

There's definitely a place for the more-me mixers, but too many engineers use them as a crutch because they cannot be bothered with or are simply incapable of getting a good mix while tracking.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Cue
Post by: compasspnt on April 02, 2010, 10:58:20 am
Podgorny wrote on Fri, 02 April 2010 08:59

...too many engineers use them as a crutch because they cannot be bothered with or are simply incapable of getting a good mix while tracking.



Hmm, I never thought of that...
Title: Re: Thoughts on Cue
Post by: KB_S1 on April 02, 2010, 01:16:31 pm
I used an Aviom cue system recently when tracking an album.
Seemed ok and the musicians generally liked it.
It was mostly small track counts though so they only had a maximum of 7 or 8 things to deal with including TB level.

I still prefer spending some time at the start of a session getting everyones cue mix the way they like it and learning something about the musician in the process.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Cue
Post by: j.hall on April 02, 2010, 02:03:13 pm
i have yet to come across players that are annoyed with a small 4 channel + stereo mix furman.

maybe it's just the young kids in these rock bands, but just saying, "main mix on this knob, you are 1, click 2...."  i guess i'm over looking the fact that we have a pretty solid mix up at the time...
Title: Re: Thoughts on Cue
Post by: compasspnt on April 02, 2010, 04:02:14 pm
j.hall wrote on Fri, 02 April 2010 14:03

...we have a pretty solid mix up at the time...



That is the key.

Just a normal stereo cue box, but with added possibilities.

I would not just let them start mixing.
Title: Re: Thoughts on Cue
Post by: jwhynot on April 02, 2010, 05:56:45 pm
Totally.

And I prefer the big Furman too!  I just try to remember to check that the "more me" pots are all down, leaving my stereo balance up for a starting point.  Otherwise there tends to be a lot of discussion…

#1 key to a great stereo mix in the cans?  Great sounds at the desk inputs.

If I'm spending a lot of time dealing with cans, I immediately begin to suspect my microphone placement.

JW
Title: Re: Thoughts on Cue
Post by: Fig on April 07, 2010, 03:13:34 pm
I'm so glad that after 4 years, this topic is finally being discussed.


jwhynot wrote on Fri, 02 April 2010 16:56



#1 key to a great stereo mix in the cans?  Great sounds at the desk inputs.

If I'm spending a lot of time dealing with cans, I immediately begin to suspect my microphone placement.



We still mix the cue from the console's stereo aux bus.  While we do a LOT of alternative micing techniques, only the important ones make it to the 'phones <wink>.

I was told long ago that the cue mix is the most important mix at the time.  These days we patch the control room monitor mix to the wireless 'phones during tracking sessions until someone requires a drastic change that nobody can live with - then that troublemaker gets his/her own feed.  Repeat as necessary.


Title: Re: Thoughts on Cue
Post by: cenafria on April 20, 2010, 05:28:32 pm
We just got the big Furman at my place. I had used it years ago and have missed it every day since. It's not cheap but certainly worth it. Musicians comment on how comfortable they are being able to adjust their mixes even in the middle of a take if necessary.

When I sense someone is overwhelmed by the mixer I just pop down and dial in a mix in a second.

The setting up is quicker (when compared to amps and two mix). For me, that is pretty much what settles it.


AND talkback mic on each mixer (which you can activate with a pedal).