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R/E/P => R/E/P Archives => Budget? Budget? We Don't Got No Steekin' Budjet => Topic started by: James Duncan on January 01, 2006, 11:47:22 am

Title: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: James Duncan on January 01, 2006, 11:47:22 am
Obviously, the quality of the gear that comes walking in the door varies greatly from performer to performer, and this can make our job challenging at best. 'nuff said...

I am looking to get another amp for the studio that I can provide as part of my services on a daily or per session rate.

I currently have a Marshall TSL601 combo, a Marshall DSL401 combo, a couple of rack-mounted preamps with a Mesa Boogie 2:90 main amp, and a Marshall 2 X 12 speaker cabinet.

I also stock a pretty good supply of guitars (PRS, Gibson, Wolfgang, Fender, etc.).

My problem is that I am not really happy with any of the guitar sounds I am getting. The distortion is muddy sounding, and not tight and focused.

I tend to do rock/pop/blues types of projects, but will get the (fairly) occasional punk or metal bands in as well, but I am more concerned with the rock-ish sound (think GnR with Slash at the helm of his LP and JCM800 Jubilee).

So I guess the easy answer is to go and get a Marshall Jubille with a Marshall 1960 cabinet, but that is a pretty expensive rig, although if that is the answer, then I guess I would be willing to go that route.


I have two problems here:

1) It just seems to me that I should be able to get a better sound out of the gear that I have, and...

2) I am looking for some possible cheaper alternatives (a Jubilee head alone is in the US$1,800 - $2,000 vicinity).


With regard to my existing gear: Why do both of the Marshall's sound like crap? (I am talking in the room here as well as to tape)? Are the Marsahll TSL/DSLs really that bad? Could it be that 2 x 12 speaker cabinet? It is a closed-back 2 X 12 with some pretty high-wattage Celestians. I am thinking a nice 4 X 12 with some 30w greenbacks might sound a lot better. I also tried listening closely to the single 12s in both combo amps, and got similar crappy, muddy sounds. They may not be the best-sounding amps in the world, but these sound like CRAP!!! Total doggie doo-doo. I am pretty pissed. The TSL uses EL34s and the DSL uses EL84s, which you would think would give me a nice pallet of varied sounds, right? Nope! They all suck!

Should I consider re-tubing? I just had the DSL looked at, and one of the pre amp tubes was replaced as well as a bad solder joint on one of the tube sockets. I am not sure why he didn't replace the whole set of preamp tubes (which I asked him about when I went to pick it up), but I figured that I can easily do that for a lot less without having to re-bias like I would with the power amp tubes, so I left it alone.

BTW...the DSL and the TSL seem to be OK for live gigging, but suck in the studio.

Regarding other alternatives: I can pick up one of the much-maligned JCM900's for about 1/3 of the cost of the Jubilee, but I keep hearing a lot of folks bad-mouth the JCM900 as being a piece of junk. I played one at GC the other day, and didn't think it was *that* bad personally, but it is hard to tell in that environment, obviously. The also had an old JMP there that was very cool, but was not the sound I am looking for. I need more gain and distortion than that.

I am not really into the Recto/metal sound, so let's stay away from there for a while. I am also trolling for a nice Fender Twin, but that is for a different sound altogether, and not really related to this thread.

So, where do I go from here? Any ideas?

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: covert on January 01, 2006, 01:56:23 pm
James Duncan wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 11:47


I am looking to get another amp for the studio that I can provide as part of my services on a daily or per session rate.

I currently have a Marshall TSL601 combo, a Marshall DSL401 combo, a couple of rack-mounted preamps with a Mesa Boogie 2:90 main amp, and a Marshall 2 X 12 speaker cabinet.

I also stock a pretty good supply of guitars (PRS, Gibson, Wolfgang, Fender, etc.).

My problem is that I am not really happy with any of the guitar sounds I am getting. The distortion is muddy sounding, and not tight and focused.


With regard to my existing gear: Why do both of the Marshall's sound like crap? (I am talking in the room here as well as to tape)? Are the Marsahll TSL/DSLs really that bad?



In a word yes.  

Quote:


BTW...the DSL and the TSL seem to be OK for live gigging, but suck in the studio.


Recording is a microscope.  It will make bad sounds far more obvious.

Quote:


Regarding other alternatives: I can pick up one of the much-maligned JCM900's for about 1/3 of the cost of the Jubilee, but I keep hearing a lot of folks bad-mouth the JCM900 as being a piece of junk. I played one at GC the other day, and didn't think it was *that* bad personally, but it is hard to tell in that environment, obviously. The also had an old JMP there that was very cool, but was not the sound I am looking for. I need more gain and distortion than that.


If you have a decent tech, the rectifier bridge that ruins the drive cannel of the 900s can be removed, making them a much better amp.

Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: Tidewater on January 01, 2006, 02:20:16 pm
I would steer you towaard the 1980's red knob Fender Twin.

It's distortion is wailing, or not, and crushing, or not, but the notes are always separated, and it has a fantastic clean sound. It crunches like a good Marshall, with more tone control, and a reverb.

For recording distorted guitar, turn the distortion down a lil.

My Marshall settings go Bass 0, Mid 10, Treb 10, Pres 10-or-0, gain 5-6, master 4-7. If non-master I strap the channels, and peg II, then turn I up to taste.

M
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: compasspnt on January 01, 2006, 02:47:43 pm
I agree that the microscope syndrome may be pointing out bad amps that you don't notice on stage or in Guitar Center.

However, I wobder about the room in which you record these, as well as the mic'ing techniques.  Neither of those is mentioned.

I agree that the "Red Knob" Fender "The Twin" is an excellent amp.  I remember David Lyndley using mine, and he really, really liked it.

http://www.davidlindley.com/

But back when I bought mine, I didn't like the red, and ended up taking the knobs off and replacing with same model black ones.
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: rankus on January 01, 2006, 04:33:02 pm
DivideByZero wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 11:20

 
For recording distorted guitar, turn the distortion down a lil.

My Marshall settings go Bass 0, Mid 10, Treb 10, Pres 10-or-0, gain 5-6, master 4-7. If non-master I strap the channels, and peg II, then turn I up to taste.

M


I thought this just me... I usually turn the bass knob all the way down as well, and crank up the high end a little.... Gtr players hate  this... until they hear the results in the mix.

Seems this is almost standard fair.  I ask the player to get "his" sound, and then I stroll out and roll off the bottom... I lose some distortion as well... pretty much this scenario every time.

Love the JCM800's!

Love the older Mesa MK4's as well!

Love the Greenbacks...

Love SM57's and 4033's ... Shocked
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: Ryan Leigh Patterson on January 01, 2006, 04:50:08 pm
Look into getting an older Fender Bassman ( Black Face or early Silver Face) and have a good tech hotrod it.  These amps are pretty boring stock, but they're decently cheap to buy used and they've got all the right parts to make a smoking amp.  

Early Traynor Bassmasters etc are also excellent.  They're basically a JCM 45 (plexi and 59 Bassman) circuit... they sound great and they're cheap.  

Ampeg V4-B and V4-G.. also nice, think mini SVT.  

Shop around for some used Fender 2x12 cabs (late 60s early 70s) and used Marhsall 4x12 cabs and then play with different speaker combos....

Garnett Herzog.... basically a Fender champ with a dummy coil and an output attenuator on the output tranny.  Feed one of these through any amp and stand back!!!  This is the sickest sounding distortion box in the world....

Fender Champ.... small amp, big sound!!


Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: Haolemon on January 01, 2006, 05:41:48 pm
You might consider the Mesa Blue Angel.  It provides a good approximation of both the AC30 and the Fender Deluxe, as well as a sort of hybrid of the two.
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: Dave Martin on January 01, 2006, 08:10:55 pm
I'm a big fan of a Deluxe, too.
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: Tidewater on January 01, 2006, 08:48:45 pm
You mean a pre-67 black face... you mean a GREAT pre-67 black face.. right?

Yeah, me too... but it has to be a really great one.


M
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: Brendan Thompson on January 01, 2006, 09:55:49 pm
James Duncan wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 03:47

The also had an old JMP there that was very cool, but was not the sound I am looking for. I need more gain and distortion than that.


Go back and try a clean boost in front of it...
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: Dave Martin on January 02, 2006, 12:47:37 am
DivideByZero wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 19:48

You mean a pre-67 black face... you mean a GREAT pre-67 black face.. right?

Yeah, me too... but it has to be a really great one.
M


The one here is (I believe), a '65...
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: Tidewater on January 02, 2006, 12:52:28 am
...and well serviced.. CONGRATS!

The prices have really been falling off on those lately... you'd do well to find a fool to pawn it off on.

Let me know... PM or email is fine.. don't talk to anyone else!


M
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: maxim on January 02, 2006, 01:05:37 am
i would, personally, dump the marshalls in the river

they're enough to drive guitarists to a pod

different amps for different sound, i reckon

the studio is a good place for a smaller amp that can break up at lower volume

fenders are clean and will translate the gtr + pedals well

ac30 is a great, if particular tasting, amp

matchbox do an improved version

mesa is an acquired but unique taste

i record a lot of my electric stuff on a pignose

there are some great boutique and vintage tube amps that bring the variety to your studio

also, don't forget pedals

guitarists love to play with new fuzztoys

i recommend new zealand's hot cake as a unique flavour

Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: Fibes on January 02, 2006, 09:55:55 am
I've been looking at the deluxes built by Sligo amplification and the deluxe version by Top Hat. The top hat is super sweet and barks in at 1300 USD which is at least half of a Black face 65 deluxe and is quiet as a mouse. It has tat great 3d depth and now i just have to wait for my local dealer to give me a deal or maybe we need to be a clock raping whores for a little while...
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: Sir Bergersworth on January 03, 2006, 01:38:46 pm
I have a 98 hot rod deluxe that souds great when tracked. very, nice amp and wont break the bank.
I also recommend the small format fender tube amps (cant remember the models). they sound great when cranked and tracked.
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: Electric Warrior on January 03, 2006, 08:04:42 pm
u mean the Champ model?
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: Dave Martin on January 03, 2006, 11:52:56 pm
Electric Warrior wrote on Tue, 03 January 2006 19:04

u mean the Champ model?


Or possibly the Blues Jr.?
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: Kenny Holloway on January 04, 2006, 01:28:38 am
Guitar Tone is my favorite source engineering aspect.  Your looking for an inexpensive solution to get killer tone.  It's the same dilema as getting that great vocal sound with a cheap mic/pre combo.  Not going to happen.  You seem to gravitate toward a Mashall tone that you heard somewhere and suggestions are to go Fender.  They both make great amps, but they're two different beasts and Fender is not the solution to Marshall tone.

If you don't want to pony up $1800 you mentioned, and you want the variety of tones that a studio environment demands, you might want to check into the Vox ToneLab or the Pod.  I'm not a fan of modeling amps, but they're hard to beat when it's time to go cheap.

You might want to consider getting a great tube amp for the power section.  Check eBay for a TopHat amp like the Club Royale.  You can put a ToneLab in front of it and get your Marshall Bluesbreaker - Plexi tone to chimey Vox.  It is not your Fender solution.  The Fender solution is a Fender.

I'd venture to say your strat could use new pups/wiring as most factory strats are lacking and noisy.
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: floodstage on January 04, 2006, 08:17:27 am
Dave Martin wrote on Tue, 03 January 2006 23:52

Electric Warrior wrote on Tue, 03 January 2006 19:04

u mean the Champ model?


Or possibly the Blues Jr.?



Don't leave out the Princeton Reverb.  
One of the nicest amps in the world IMO.
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: James Duncan on January 04, 2006, 01:25:48 pm
Kenny Holloway wrote on Wed, 04 January 2006 01:28


If you don't want to pony up $1800 you mentioned, and you want the variety of tones that a studio environment demands, you might want to check into the Vox ToneLab or the Pod.  I'm not a fan of modeling amps, but they're hard to beat when it's time to go cheap.



Thanks Kenny. Actually, I will pony up the $1,800 if that is what it takes, I was just thinking that I should be able to get better results with the gear I have, which is pretty frustrating. I don't like the loose, flabby-sounding distortion I am getting from the modern Marshalls, and was wondering if getting an JCM900 or JCM800 was going to get me where I need to go without going all the way to a Jubilee.

As far as modeling goes, I am not a fan either, and will not go that route any time soon!


Quote:

You might want to consider getting a great tube amp for the power section.  Check eBay for a TopHat amp like the Club Royale.  You can put a ToneLab in front of it and get your Marshall Bluesbreaker - Plexi tone to chimey Vox.  It is not your Fender solution.  The Fender solution is a Fender.



I already have an all-tube Mesa Boogie 2:90 (it has 8 6L6's in it), but I need to get the right preamp to go with it.

I also plan on dealing with the "Fender issue" at a later time, and that will another thread for another time!

Quote:

I'd venture to say your strat could use new pups/wiring as most factory strats are lacking and noisy.



The Strat has already been rebuilt and re-wired along with new pickups.

Thanks for all the advice guys!
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: George_ on January 05, 2006, 01:59:44 am
I went trough a lot of amps..

my best choice till now is a REUSSENZEHN (handmade in germany but not very expensive), mounted with 2 diffrent sets of tubes.. its a 2x50watt poweramp (only poweramp!). so I can connect 2 speakers to the outputs and do biamping without tuning 2 amps till the end of time..

I use a ENGL E630 preamp. too much gain somethimes and maybe too noisy if you dont produce metal.

I recoomend also getting your JCM 900 to a tuning tech.. mine was modded for 300$.. it sounds killer now.. focused gain.. much more gain.. totally diffrent sounding.. but marshall.

wagener waves about the RANDAL POWERAMP..

get rid of the 2:90 mesa poweramp and hear the mesa 295 poweramp.
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: John Ivan on January 05, 2006, 03:11:02 am
DivideByZero wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 14:20

I would steer you towaard the 1980's red knob Fender Twin.

It's distortion is wailing, or not, and crushing, or not, but the notes are always separated, and it has a fantastic clean sound. It crunches like a good Marshall, with more tone control, and a reverb.

For recording distorted guitar, turn the distortion down a lil.

My Marshall settings go Bass 0, Mid 10, Treb 10, Pres 10-or-0, gain 5-6, master 4-7. If non-master I strap the channels, and peg II, then turn I up to taste.

M



I had a pair of these in cases I did shows with for years. GREAT sounding amps. They did it all.

Marshal amps have always been a real drag for me.. No Joke, I have liked every Peavey Tube amp I've ever plugged into compared to the Marshals. I have a Peavey 60-60 power amp {6L6} that sounds really great..I use a variety of pre amps in front of it and hit Rivera 4x10 open back's. Puts a Marshal to sleep. I also have a pair of oldish Duncan combo amps {EL-84's} that sound great. The statement about great guitar tones costing a lot of money is something I never understood..

Ivan..................
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: bigaudioblowhard on January 05, 2006, 03:15:56 am

A guy I know has a killer collection of vintage guitars and amps. I recently asked him a similar question. He felt two great amps were an original AC-15 and ofcoarse the Marshall Bluesbreaker 18 watt. He actually has both, and I've played the Marshall with his old Les Paul. I WAS BLOWN AWAY, for real. The point here is he claims the reissure is pretty darned good, and I trust his opinion. I dont know what he thinks of the reissure AC-15 though. I could ask if you like. How about a little Supro? Isnt that what Jimmy Page played? I dont think they're too much money. I've heard the guy from Los Lobos (forget his name) has a collection of small amps he uses to record with as well. I hung on a session with a bunch of metal heads once in the 80's who swore that to record a 4 X 12 is to close mike each speaker with the following. U87 w -10 pad, SM57, 421, 451 with -10 pad and elbow (for some reason this elbow is part of the sound). Sounded great to me. I've got some old Rickenbacker with a single 6V6 and an Alnico Jensen 8" that overdrives great and you can still carry on a conversation in the same room, great for recording in my apartment, and I can use my Sony C37A without worrying. I also like the old Traynors with EL34's and the Blackface pre 67 Deluxe,  (6V6).

best luck. bab
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: covert on January 05, 2006, 07:59:10 am
Since we seem to have shifted to a discussion of reasonably priced amps, the Randall RM series needs to be mentioned.  The different preamp modules actually do sound significantly different, and usually good.
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: tmoney on January 05, 2006, 05:41:08 pm


Ryan Leigh Patterson wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 21:50



Ampeg V4-B and V4-G.. also nice, think mini SVT.  




I've heard that the V4-B and V4, the latter is also called the V4-G, are the exact same amp except that the "B" version has no reverb. Anyway, I have one of these heads, and it sounds simply incredible. Not a very changeable sound, definitely a "one trick pony," and you'll have to get the tubes and caps changed and maybe some capacitors and transistors swapped, but the one sound it does is incredible-- so warm and full. Good control over the sound due to 3-way midrange frequency band selector and "ultrahi". 3-way switchable impedance, 2 speaker outs also! They also make a 50-watt version which would be easier to drive up. It's called the V-2.

Also try Fenders and Orange. I agree that Twins sound great as well. GREAT reverb inside and they drive well. Bassman might not give you enough tone control if you're looking for a versatile studio head, but they still sound great.
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: Ryan Leigh Patterson on January 05, 2006, 11:13:00 pm
the V4 also sounds amazing for bass...

a great buy..
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: tats_dragon on January 06, 2006, 11:45:49 am
Quote:

I already have an all-tube Mesa Boogie 2:90 (it has 8 6L6's in it), but I need to get the right preamp to go with it.


Try a Peavey Rock Master preamp, can be had for about $150+ on Ebay.  A very versatile 3 channel preamp.  

My favorite is the Hughes and Kettner Access. About $500+ on Ebay.  The sound and features on this preamp is outstanding.

Quote:

Since we seem to have shifted to a discussion of reasonably priced amps, the Randall RM series needs to be mentioned. The different preamp modules actually do sound significantly different, and usually good.


+1.  Not only do they make about 10 different preamp modules,  their stereo power amp is 6L6 on one side and EL34 on the other, which can also be channel switched.

Jun

Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: James Duncan on January 06, 2006, 12:33:12 pm
As a bit of an update...

First off, I am finding that the Marshall Jubilees are really not $1,800!!! My local GC has one listed for $1,800, and the Atlanta GC has one listed on Ebay for $1,800...BUT...

A quick search of previously sold Jubilees on Ebay shows the range to be more like $650 - $1,200.

This is good news since I really like what I have heard so far.

Secondly, I borrowed a Peavey XXX combo last night just to test, and I have to admit that it was much better than the crap I am getting with my modern Marshalls. Still not where I want it, but certainly "better".

Also, I am looking into some mods for my TSL, and the Voodoo Amp mods seem to be looking pretty good. Anyone have any experience with modding a Marshall TSL through them? Thanks!

http://voodooamps.com/standardmods.html
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: brandondrury on January 06, 2006, 01:58:29 pm
I still don't understand what you want.  I don't I'm alone because you are getting responses that cover the gammut of guitar amplifiers here.

Brandon
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: Primear on January 06, 2006, 05:21:40 pm
compasspnt wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 14:47


However, I wobder about the room in which you record these, as well as the mic'ing techniques.  Neither of those is mentioned.



I would bet this is the issue. You've certainly a nice group of amp and guitars. I think a reading of Slippy's guitar recording thread may be in order as well? Maybe you've already read it?

Just a thought...
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: musical5 on January 06, 2006, 05:33:20 pm
Hughes and Kettner, Edition Tube is an amazing recording amp. Try it out, they just released it as the 20th anniversary edition.
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: James Duncan on January 07, 2006, 12:05:45 pm
prim(e)ar wrote on Fri, 06 January 2006 17:21

compasspnt wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 14:47


However, I wobder about the room in which you record these, as well as the mic'ing techniques.  Neither of those is mentioned.



I would bet this is the issue. You've certainly a nice group of amp and guitars. I think a reading of Slippy's guitar recording thread may be in order as well? Maybe you've already read it?

Just a thought...



OK, before we go much further, let me clarify a few things that seem to be confusing. I know with a long thread like this, it is hard to go back and re-read all the posts word-for-word, but I *tried* to be pretty clear early-on that the amps don't have the sound I am looking for ***IN THE ROOM***. This has nothing to do with recording techniques (yet), but obviously might have a bit to do with the room I guess, but I have recorded 1000's of guitar tracks before without these same issues.

To me, this is one those "you can't polish a turd" type of things.

The room is an iso room that is about 10 X 17 and has some other equipment in it, including other amps and speaker cabs. It is fairly lively, but has some foam in it as well (no bass traps in the iso room yet).

As far as recording technique, I am pretty well-versed in guitars, and have read Slippy's thread (although it was a while ago. Anybody got that link still, might make a good re-read).

Depending on the amp, I use several different recording chains, but for the most part I use combinations of the following mics depending on the situation:

Shure SM57
Beyer M201
Royer R121
Sennheiser MD421 U5
Sen MD441
Sen e906
Neumann U87
Blue Bottle with B6 and B7 capsules

Mic Pres:

Great River NV
Telefunken V672 (TAB racked)
API 512C
Focusrite ISA

A/D:

Lynx Aurora-16 through Lynx AES-16 card


OK, we can rule out the gear now, and the room, while not ideal, is certainly workable, especially when close-miking. I know there are those that are going to offer some gear advice, but I should be able to get a decent recording with what I have (although if anyone wants to permanently loan me a Chandler channel strip, I *might* take it!!! Wink ).

I have tried every possible mic/pre and mic position combination known to man with the gear that I have, and when using multiple mics, I always use an IBP to fix any phasing issues.

So, as I have said, I am just not happy with the sound of the amps that I have for this particualr project. They are OK for some styles, and I have used them successfully many, many times (high-gain stuff), but I am not happy with them for more classic rock sounds. Like I said earlier, think of the rhythm guitar sound on "Welcome to the Jungle" by Guns and Roses (not one of my favs, but it does have a nice rhythm guitar sound).

By the way, the lead sounds I can get are amazing through these amps, it is the rhythm sound that is bugging the crap out of me.

As has been mentioned in this thread by someone, I can usually make things *fit* into the mix, and can end up with a decent product. The comments about how the guitars sound in isolation vs. in the mix are valid, but there are times when the guitars play by themselves and the band stops, and then we are back to *UGLY*!!!  I am looking for something else tone-wise, and I guess it is hard to explain, and probably impossible to answer, especially in a forum where we cannot compare sounds. I guess I just posted out of frustration and desperation!!!

One of the reasons that I am being so particular with this project is that I am recording my son's band, and I want it to be perfect! I am being really picky about the quality of the sound, and I don't want to spend an hour EQ'ing the track after it has gone to tape (read the Slippy thead on this topic!). For the first time in a long time, we are not worried about an hourly rate and nobody is watching the clock. We are committed to making the best album possible in my humble studio with my humble skills.

"Fixing it in the mix" is not what we are looking for here.

I will post a short MP3 later today or this evening to show you what I have been able to achieve so far. It is "OK", but not the sound I am looking for at all. We ended up having to resort to a heavier sound than we wanted just to get some decent sounds to tape that we could live with. The tone that we got is "OK", but is still too heavy for the song's vision. If we reduce the gain, we get that mushy, crappy, muddy, ugly sound that is driving me nuts! I want to *reduce* the gain, not *increase* it, yet these amps seem incapable of producing decent "crunch" sounds without going to a "metal" sound.

I still need *some* distortion, so the Fender sound is not where I am going with this, also as I mentioned earlier, I tried playing through an older Marshall JMP, and it didn't have enough gain either, even when linking the channels.

We tried the clean channels with a couple of pedals, but that didn't do it for anybody either.

One of my buddies suggested using a BBE Sonic Maximizer through the effects loop...GAG!!! That was *hideous*! (I knew that going in, but as mentioned, I was desperate!)

And before anyone mentions it, I always make the gain lower than you think you need it to be when recording. I get so sick of all the thrash metal kids coming into the studio and have the gain cranked to "11" on their Crate or Mesa Recto amps. It takes some persuading, but I can usually convince them that when we layer a couple of tracks with much lower gain settings, it sounds so much better and clearer, yet still "heavy".

There was a thread over at another forum where someone posted a short clip of a Les Paul through an older 50w Plexi that was just amazing! It was a great sound, and pretty close to the one I am looking for for this project. BTW, it was recorded with an SM57 though a Mackie 1604VLZ believe it or not! It still sounded fantastic!

Anyway, sorry for the long post, and the for asking a question that has no answer (or maybe has too obvious of an answer).
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: tats_dragon on January 07, 2006, 01:44:08 pm
I think it confused us all since you mentioned 'Jubilee head' numerous times in your original post.

Jun
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: James Duncan on January 07, 2006, 02:45:50 pm
tats_dragon wrote on Sat, 07 January 2006 13:44

I think it confused us all since you mentioned 'Jubilee head' numerous times in your original post.


Sorry guys, I know I am going all over the place here.

The part about the Jubilee is that so far, that is the best-sounding amp I have heard that gets closest to the sound I want.

So as I discuss what I need to do to fix the problem, I am using the Jubilee as the reference point for comparison. So as I look for something to replace my existing amps, I am looking for something with that sound.

Of course the obvious answer is to just buy a Jubilee, and that is most-likely what I am going to do.

In the original post, I was just thinking that:

1) there were other choices besides the Jubilee that were not so expensive (I have since found out that they Jubilee is a lot less that I first thought).

and

2) Shouldn't I be able to get better sounds out of the amps I have (are they "bad" in some way...bad tubes, etc.).
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: tats_dragon on January 07, 2006, 02:51:19 pm
Have you experimented with different pre and power tubes in your amps?

A great site for asking guitar related questions is:
www.hugeracksinc.com
Very knowledable/helpful people on that forum.

Jun
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: floodstage on January 07, 2006, 03:30:11 pm
James Duncan wrote on Sat, 07 January 2006 12:05



By the way, the lead sounds I can get are amazing through these amps, it is the rhythm sound that is bugging the crap out of me.




Ah-ha!  No wonder I didn't understand what you are after.

You said Slash earlier.  
I ass-u-me-d lead.
Now you say rhythm.  
Different banana

(You're not talking about Izzy are you?)

BTW, I'm close to you.  If you are interested in trying out any of my amps to further your search, let me know.  I understand how hard it is to make up your mind in a GC w/500 wankers wailing away at the same time in the background.

I recently bought a chassis from a JCM 800 - 50 watt combo (model 4210)  From what I've read, it's a different circuit from the original JCM, but pretty much the same as the Model 2205 head.  (It's in the shop getting a mod removed, new tubes, and a bias job, so it'll be a little bit before it's available to try)

Other amps available are:
Epiphone - Pacemaker Tremolo Guitar Amp
Fender - Blues Junior Amp
Fender - Hot Rod Deluxe Amp
Fender - Princeton Reverb Amp
Fender - 2 x 12 Speaker Cabinet w/Peavey Sheffield speakers (Celestion wanna be's)
Gibson - Discoverer Tremolo Amp
Marshall - JCM 2000 - DSL 401 Amp
Peavey - Companion 15 Practice Amp
Peavey - Solo Practice Amp
Peavey - Special 130 Amp
Pignose - Practice Amp
Roland - Cube 40
A couple single 12 speaker boxes w/ unknown speaker models

(Got a POD 2.0 as well but I wouldn't reccomend it)

Be glad to help out sometime!
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: James Duncan on January 07, 2006, 03:49:51 pm
OK Guys, I've got a short MP3 posted for you all to listen to.

Realize that it is not mixed yet, these are still the roughs, and the VOCALS ARE SCRATCH!!! The vocalist was singing through a cheap dynamic while playing a scratch guitar track when we first tracked the drums. We will track proper vocals once the rest of the song is tracked.

And I know, the vox are too loud, not enough bass, etc., but this was not meant to be heard yet. If you can, just listen to the guitar tones.

The only effects here are a touch of compression on the kick and snare, and a touch of reverb on the vox and snare...other than that, everything is raw (i.e. mic-to-tape).

Oh, I also added a touch of limiting to the 2-bus to bring the volume up a bit, and that is what you hear.


http://www.helixrecording.com/Music/Guitar_test.mp3

Floodstage...check your PMs.
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: tats_dragon on January 07, 2006, 05:34:13 pm
The guitar tone doesn't sound muddy it sounds like it lacks mids.

Jun
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: James Duncan on January 07, 2006, 11:44:52 pm
tats_dragon wrote on Sat, 07 January 2006 17:34

The guitar tone doesn't sound muddy it sounds like it lacks mids.

Jun


Yeah, the muddy sounds are when the gain is lower. When I crank the gain a bit (like in the recording I posted), the muddiness goes away, but the sound is not what I am looking for. I will try boosting some mids on this recording, but I am not into fixing this sound too much since it is a compromise anyway.

Thanks for listening and for the comments tats...
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: redfro on January 08, 2006, 02:31:34 am
James Duncan wrote on Sat, 07 January 2006 13:45


The part about the Jubilee is that so far, that is the best-sounding amp I have heard that gets closest to the sound I want.



Isn't the Jubilee just a reissue of the JMP Master Lead 100? Or is it the JCM 800 with no master volume? I can't remember...

Quote:

I recently bought a chassis from a JCM 800 - 50 watt combo (model 4210) From what I've read, it's a different circuit from the original JCM, but pretty much the same as the Model 2205 head. (It's in the shop getting a mod removed, new tubes, and a bias job, so it'll be a little bit before it's available to try)


Too sizzly on the distortion....the worst (in my opinion) of the JCM 800's.
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: James Duncan on January 08, 2006, 09:43:15 am
redfro wrote on Sun, 08 January 2006 02:31


Isn't the Jubilee just a reissue of the JMP Master Lead 100? Or is it the JCM 800 with no master volume? I can't remember...



My understanding is that it is a JCM800 of some sort. I am still trying to get the specific details, but I do know that I love how it sounds!


Quote:

I recently bought a chassis from a JCM 800 - 50 watt combo (model 4210) From what I've read, it's a different circuit from the original JCM, but pretty much the same as the Model 2205 head. (It's in the shop getting a mod removed, new tubes, and a bias job, so it'll be a little bit before it's available to try)


Quote:

Too sizzly on the distortion....the worst (in my opinion) of the JCM 800's.


So if you had to choose, what is a *good* JCM800???
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: James Duncan on January 08, 2006, 10:05:50 am
tats_dragon wrote on Sat, 07 January 2006 14:51

Have you experimented with different pre and power tubes in your amps?

A great site for asking guitar related questions is:
www.hugeracksinc.com
Very knowledable/helpful people on that forum.

Jun



Great link Jun...thanks Mucho!!!  Very Happy
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: dilbert on January 08, 2006, 12:18:29 pm
Marshall Silver Jubilee info page.
I have one of these in black tolex,
even the Fender guy's like it.
http://www.blamepro.com/mar1360.htm

Here's an EXCELLENT info page on ALL
Marshall models.
http://www.drtube.com/marshall.htm
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: Buzz on January 08, 2006, 03:29:00 pm
Hell nobody has even mentioned SPEAKERS !!! , I have a Line 6 AX212 ( I know POS right ??? ) WRONG I changed the chitty Eminance speakers to some WEBER Blue dog and Silver Bells

OMFG night and day the Line6 sounds GREAT (believe it or not !!)

I bought them because I built a 18watt Marshall  clone with el34's in it ( It sounds really nice also ) so I tried the speakers in my Line6

Later
Buzz

PS: I can actually get the tones I want using the AX212 with low noise and a very nice speaker distortion , they move ALOT OF AIR

Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: Frob on January 09, 2006, 04:00:53 am
i did not read the who thred because i dont have time, but this is my sujestion. if money is an issue (and it almost always is)
first a disclamer. i hate almost every thing crate, but...

a crate v12 is a really good amp if you can find one. also get a vox TV amp either a viscount or a buckingham they are really the same thing.

mics: try a sdc like any pencil mic, or an KEL hm1
also try micing the cab, as in the wood.
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: James Duncan on January 09, 2006, 09:47:26 am
Dilbert: Thanks for the links, great info.

Update:

1) I played the Jubilee at GC again last night...*amazing*! I am on the hunt as we speak. This is not the amp for everyone, but it is a good choice for the non-metal crowd imho.

2) I took Jun's advice and re-tubed the JCM200 TSL amp, and it made a pretty significant difference. I had switched out the power tubes about 2 years ago, but the pre-amp tubes had not been replaced in a while. Sounds *much* better!!! THANKS JUN!!!

The TSL will probably work for a while until I can find a good Jubilee. In the mean time I am taking a clean DI'ed track for later re-tracking.
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: sonic dogg on January 09, 2006, 08:22:16 pm
Nice clips BTW...
 
  Have you tried (in no particular order)  Carr Hammerhead....Bogner Metropolis....Gibson Super Goldtone???

 
  My guess is you'll never look at a Marshall for anything again.(doorstop)

 And I loved my Wednesday built JCM800 2-12 combo.........
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: Dave Martin on January 10, 2006, 08:49:38 pm
I'm bummed - the owner of the '64 deluxe took it with him when he left this afternoon - he said something about 'another session', but dammit - I LIKED having that amp in my studio...

On the plus side, he DID return my electric sitar...
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: maxim on January 10, 2006, 10:37:47 pm
dave wrote:

"On the plus side, he DID return my electric sitar..."

to those about to rock...
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: redfro on January 11, 2006, 02:58:40 pm
James Duncan wrote on Sun, 08 January 2006 08:43


So if you had to choose, what is a *good* JCM800???


The first series with no master volume. The JMP Master Lead 100 is great for the instant AC/DC thing. All knobs to 5...

If you're looking for a great rock (not metal) amp for recording the best I've found is the Soldano SL2 60. Single channel, less distortion than an SLO and lots of balls. I use one though a Mesa Half Back 4 x 12 (top open, bottom closed).

My $.02....
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: sekim on January 12, 2006, 02:38:05 pm
Buzz wrote on Sun, 08 January 2006 20:29

...nobody has even mentioned SPEAKERS...


After listening to the clip, that's my first question - what cab was used and what's the cab loaded with?

I saw JD has a 2x12 cab (is this what the clip was using?).  If it's a particle board Marshall 1936 I'd consider ditching it and see if you can find an early plywood version and load it to taste.  FWIW I like the G12T-75 best in the ply box (after also using it with Greenbacks, V30's, EVM12L's).
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: James Duncan on January 13, 2006, 07:25:48 am
sekim wrote on Thu, 12 January 2006 14:38

Buzz wrote on Sun, 08 January 2006 20:29

...nobody has even mentioned SPEAKERS...


After listening to the clip, that's my first question - what cab was used and what's the cab loaded with?

I saw JD has a 2x12 cab (is this what the clip was using?).  If it's a particle board Marshall 1936 I'd consider ditching it and see if you can find an early plywood version and load it to taste.  FWIW I like the G12T-75 best in the ply box (after also using it with Greenbacks, V30's, EVM12L's).



As a matter of fact, it is a Marshall 1936...so are these things "dogs" then? I also used (interchangeably) the internal 12" speaker in the combos.

As another update...

I had a friend loan me a Peavey Classic 30 (EL84s) with the thought that we could use the clean channel, and just crank it up to get it to break up. We tried that last night, and it wasn't bad, but it was a bit brittle, even with the highs turned down. It definitely was an improvement, and we knew we were on the right track.

Next, we tried that same experiment with the Marshall TSL601 (EL34s), and believe it not, we got a fairly decent sound using the 12" speaker in the amp itself. It is not perfect, but it is very usable...finally! Smile

I have never been a fan of the clean sound of this amp, but when cranked to almost unbearable levels, it breaks up quite nicely with a humbucker-equipped guitar, and gives that AC/DC type of sound.

Still on the prowl for a Jubilee, and it sounds like a new speaker cab too!

Thanks for all the advice folks. I'll try to get a clip posted of the new sound here in the next day or two.
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: sekim on January 13, 2006, 10:19:37 am
You may be looking for a new *old* cab!  Rolling Eyes  If you can, check to see if your's is particle board and let us know!
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: Fibes on January 13, 2006, 11:57:51 am
I've got one of these on the way:

http://www.toneking.com/products/imperial/imperial650x543.jpg

Should be here on Tuesday.
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: floodstage on January 13, 2006, 12:48:49 pm
Fibes wrote on Fri, 13 January 2006 11:57

I've got one of these on the way:

index.php/fa/2197/0/

Should be here on Tuesday.


All that thing is missing is a black and white picture tube!
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: NelsonL on January 13, 2006, 12:52:52 pm
Mine gets the major networks too:

http://wug.physics.uiuc.edu/courses/phys398emi/amps/amp_pix/60s_Silvertone_1482.jpg
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: James Duncan on February 18, 2006, 11:38:39 am
OK folks, just reviving this old thread with an update:

I picked up a JCM Slash model, which is a Jubilee Reissue that came out in 1997. This thing is "supposedly" a wire-for-wire recreation of the Jubilee, and was the first signature series amp that Marshall ever made. It was released in very limited quantities (3,000 units), and is in pretty high demand from what I understand.

Here is a link with some more info:

http://www.blamepro.com/marslash.htm

OK...so how does it sound?

Well, in a word, "AMAZING"!!! This is nicest-sounding amp I have ever heard, and it just blows me away every time I hear it!

It is defintely NOT for the metal, death or thrash crowd, but for straight-ahead rock, it is just stunning!

I did a quick re-tube with some Mesa tubes, and all I can say is that this amp is worth its weight in gold! In the next couple of months, I will probably look into some boutique tubes (NOS Mullards or TTs or something), but in the mean time, I cannot imagine this thing sounding any better!

(Can you tell that I am happy???!!!)

This is one of those "finally" moments! I have been searching for that holy grail of rock guitar sounds for many years, and for me, this is it! I do understand that everyone has a different sound in their mind, so for others, the holy grail will most likely be something else completely different.

I have not tried tracking anything to tape yet, but that will most likely happen this weekend with some test takes, and then in earnest, next week.

Thanks to all who advised on this thread...I am broke, but happy as can be!
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: hargerst on February 18, 2006, 01:07:12 pm
This is our little amp collection:
index.php/fa/2400/0/
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: spcbrown on February 18, 2006, 01:33:34 pm
Did anybody say anything about the THD uni and THD bi vaulve with switchable preamp & output tubes...and the hot plates?
These little 15 & 30 watt babies are great amps and the real deal.All ya need is a select bunch of tubes...not a select bunch of amp heads. These are made for tube rollin. EL34, EL84,6L6, KT88,KT90, 5881, 6550...takes em all aswell as the different preamp tubes.
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: James Duncan on February 19, 2006, 08:21:21 am
Nice setup Harvey!!!

I now have the Slash Jubilee head, a JCM2000 TSL (EL34) and a JCM2000 DSL (EL84) along with 1960 and 1936 Marsahll cabs, a Peavey all-tube 3-channel unit and my Mesa Boogie. Next up: Fender Twin.

With regard to recording the Jubilee:

Last night, we set up some quick and dirty recording tests using differing combinations of mics and mic pres:

Mics:
Beyer M201
Shure SM57
Sennheiser MD421
Royer R121
Neumann U87 (ambience)
Sennheiser e906

Pres:
Great River NV
Focusrite ISA
API 512C
Telefunken v672

Not too surprisingly, the Great River tended to be on the winning side most of the time, no matter which mic was used, however surprisingly that damn Focusrite kept turning out good sounds even when I didn't want to like it.

Mic-wise, I was really surprised. We had a tough time getting anything at all to work with the Royer, and the 57 was just, well, a "57". The M201 was (of course) pretty great, and the MD421 really helped fill in the low end, but the BIGGEST SURPRISE was the little Senn e906. If you are not familiar with this, it is the big brother of the little square Senn 609, but has a couple of different filter settings.

I have had this mic for over a year now, and have struggled to find anything that it sounds good on! In fact, in the year that I have had it, I think it has only found use on one project with a punk band on some rhythm tracks. I have actually considered dumping it since it seems like such a dog.

But lo and behold, it really sounded good with this amp (filter setting at flat). The funny thing was it was the absolute LAST mic that we pulled out of the cabinet at the end of the evening, and didn't really expect a whole lot, but this little guy really held its own.

It sounded best when mixed in with the M201 and then adding a little bit of MD421 to pick up some of the low end. Pretty cool combination for a triple-tracked sound.

We didn't get through all the testing we wanted...for example, I think I might want to pull up a Senn MD441, and also might try putting the U87 and R121 right next to each other on the same speaker. So far, the 87 has only been used as a room mic.

All-in-all, I am very happy with this amp and the great sounds I am getting to tape with it. I had ear-to-ear grins all over the place last night! Definitely one of those shining moments in the studio.
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: James Duncan on March 05, 2006, 09:08:16 am
Reviving once again!!!

Picked up a Fender Twin yesterday...oh man, this thing sounds so sweet with a clean sound, and that spring reverb is to die for!

So now, I am setup with:

Marshall JCM Slash 100w
Marshall JCM200 TSL 601 combo
Marshall JCM200 DSL 401 combo (EL84s)
Peavey rack-mounted tube preamp
Mesa Boogie 2:90
Fender Twin
A couple of (crap) modeling pres (ART, Yamaha, Behringer)

What sounds are missing here? Obviously the Vox AC30 sound springs to mind, and possibly the Mesa Recto sound. The Slash does a pretty good Plexi imitation on its "clean" channel. How about the Roland clean sound for more jazzy stuff?

Any advice to fill out the arsenal? I am hoping to cover off on most bases here realizing that I can never get them all. I would just like to be able to offer a pretty good selection to choose from.
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: Vertigo on March 05, 2006, 12:40:29 pm
Seriously - try the Pritchard:

http://www.pritchardamps.com

He guarantees it as "the BEST amp" and will refund your money with no hassle at all if you don't like it. Put it next to your other amps and see what you think.

I'd be surprised if you don't find it to be one of the most exciting pieces of guitar gear you've ever played through. And I'd love to hear your opinion of how it stacks up against the other amps in your collection.

Add the Pritchard and a Mesa single recto to your collection and there's probably not a sound out there you won't be able to find.

-Lance
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: Vertigo on March 05, 2006, 12:42:30 pm
BTW - I'll check out that 906. The e609 black-face is a favorite of mine for guitar cabs, but they're getting really hard to find now.

-Lance
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: John Ivan on March 05, 2006, 12:51:25 pm
One thing I take from this thread is that there can be no end to finding great tones with all kinds of amps. How cool.

Ivan................................................
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: James Duncan on March 05, 2006, 08:32:19 pm
ivan40 wrote on Sun, 05 March 2006 12:51

One thing I take from this thread is that there can be no end to finding great tones with all kinds of amps. How cool.




Hehe...very true! And every tone has its place!

Vertigo, I checked out the Pritchard, and it looks interesting. Lots of versatility there, but nothing in particular that really knocked my socks off from the sound clips. But as you say, he guarantees it or he gives you money back.
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: patrick_wilson on March 05, 2006, 11:00:15 pm
Fibes wrote on Fri, 13 January 2006 08:57

I've got one of these on the way:

http://www.toneking.com/products/imperial/imperial650x543.jpg

Should be here on Tuesday.


Man, those Tone Kings are something else!  I have the one pictured and a Comet 20w with Sylvania 6v6's and let me tell you, there's nothing like 'em!
Mark Bartel makes them and he's a great guy too.
The Budda Superdrive II's are great as well.  
Too much money but channel 3 on a Diezel VH4 is pretty special.
I hate to say it but if you have a little patience NI's Guitar Rig 2 is great also.
I've heard that Avatar cabinets are amazing as well.
Cheers
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: Tidewater on March 05, 2006, 11:08:48 pm
I used to have a pair of small Marshall Artists, hybrid, I think the model was 3204. These were heads, there was at least a 12" combo too.

It's like 35wts, made mid-80s, tube front end, channel switching, and reverb. Very good sounding amps, and for a time, they were everywhere.

The clean is wide. Cranked, the damned things sound like Gary Moore... not blues Gary Moore, "Corridors of Power" Gary Moore. Thumpity Thump!

They have to be out there somewhere, cheap.


M
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: Vertigo on March 06, 2006, 10:40:00 am
Quote:

Vertigo, I checked out the Pritchard, and it looks interesting. Lots of versatility there, but nothing in particular that really knocked my socks off from the sound clips. But as you say, he guarantees it or he gives you money back.


Yeah, the clips on the Pritchard site don't do the amp justice in the slightest. To be honest I don't think that any of those clips are particularly well recorded. I admit, the amp is a bit tricky to get onto tape if you're not experienced with mic'ing tunnel back cabinets, but if you know what you're doing you can get fantastic results without a lot of effort. I'd love to see what someone here (other than myself) with a great amp collection thinks about it. And if it doesn't blow you away just send it back Smile

-Lance
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: floodstage on March 06, 2006, 12:29:44 pm
Maybe a stupid question but....

What is a tunnel backed cabinet?
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: Vertigo on March 06, 2006, 01:50:27 pm
A tunnel-back is kind of like an open-back cabinet except the speakers aren't fully exposed in the back. The Pritchard has almost a "bass port" design in the back which causes a natural cross-over at around 250hz or so. This is great in that it causes the amp to sound the same regardless of where you are in the room, but this also means that the low end frequency response of the amp is dependent upon the room. So any time you move the amp you'll need to re-adjust the low end until it sounds "right". This isn't a big deal though, and takes only a few seconds - if it sounds right it is right.

-Lance
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: Buzz on March 06, 2006, 06:58:27 pm
Vertigo HEY BUD !!!! , I use an old MXR DynaComp as a front end driver it gives you great overdrive with killer sustain to boot

I have a old Line 6 ( I KNOW !! ) AX212 that I changed the speakers in it to Weber BLue Dogs and Silver bell 30 watts each on a 60 watt power section and it SOUNDS GREAT !! BTW

I also built a marshall 18 watt clone for recording  but the Line 6 sounds better ??????

Later
Buzz

PS: Good work on the CaPE iii project

Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: Vertigo on March 06, 2006, 07:06:23 pm
Hey Buzz-dude!

I got a CD the other day of a friend of mine's band, a very "Rush-esque" kind of project. She tracked all of her guitars on a 2x12 Spider. And the guitars sound GREAT, as much it pains me to admit it...

So the 18 watt didn't turn out well? I've got about half the parts together for one, I just have too many DIY projects on the table at the moment so it'll be a while before I start that one.

You doing CapeIV?

-Lance
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: Tidewater on March 06, 2006, 08:15:11 pm
Buzz, try the 18wt into a 4x12.



M
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: tats_dragon on March 11, 2006, 02:06:22 pm
Quote:

Any advice to fill out the arsenal? I am hoping to cover off on most bases here realizing that I can never get them all. I would just like to be able to offer a pretty good selection to choose from.


One aspect of the guitar tone you might want to explore is the speaker.  A few 1x12 or 2x12 cabs like these:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZ1cabman11QQhtZ-1
with different speakers might offer tonal variety.

Speakers to check out:
Tone Tubby Alnico
Tone Tubby Ceramic
Celestion Blue
Celestion GreenBack Heritage
Weber Blue dogs
etc.

Jun
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: LSilva on March 13, 2006, 01:56:47 pm
tats_dragon wrote on Sat, 11 March 2006 14:06


One aspect of the guitar tone you might want to explore is the speaker.  A few 1x12 or 2x12 cabs like these:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZ1cabman11QQhtZ-1
with different speakers might offer tonal variety.




Wow. Those look nice!

Have you actually seen/tried any of this guy's stuff?  If so, how do they sound? How about the build quality?

I've had a Weber 12" Chicago speaker that's been sitting in a box for about a year now while I've been searching for a decent, affordable, unloaded cabinet.

These guys just might fit the bill.

-Lou
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: tats_dragon on March 13, 2006, 07:11:47 pm
I had a 1x12", sold it to a buddy and got another one.  The build quality is very solid.  I currently have a Mesa/EV speaker in mine and it sounds great.  Will get more in the future.

Jun  
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: hargerst on March 13, 2006, 07:38:03 pm
Okay, eat your hearts out, guys.

I was at the Denton Flea Market yesterday and I found an old Traynor YBA-1 "Bass-Master" 50 watt tube head, in perfect shape - for $20!!

index.php/fa/2535/0/

The sound is similar to the Marshall JT45.  Great for guitar or bass.  They're currently going for $400 to $600 on ebay.





God, I love garage sales and flea markets.
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: Tidewater on March 13, 2006, 11:56:14 pm
TV, and cheap amps... you are a hound.

Smile


M
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: John Ivan on March 19, 2006, 02:15:19 am
COOL amp Harvey!!

When I hitch hiked back from Florida at 18 years old, I landed back in my home town and landed a gig playing in my first country band. I plugged straight into a Traynor 50 watt tube head and a 2x12 box. NOTHING on the floor for a year. It sounded great! I love those. Mine looked different than that though.

NICE. 20 bucks!! Cool Cool  Cool  Cool

JI
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: hargerst on March 19, 2006, 01:18:16 pm
The early YBA-1's had chicken head knobs which were later replaced with siver insert knobs.  I don't recall seeing one with the red knobs or red nameplate, but I think it was a standard model.

Used it last week and it was perfect for the sound I wanted.  Alex plans to use it this week for some of his sessions.
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: redfro on March 19, 2006, 03:05:09 pm
hargerst wrote on Mon, 13 March 2006 18:38

Okay, eat your hearts out, guys.

I was at the Denton Flea Market yesterday and I found an old Traynor YBA-1 "Bass-Master" 50 watt tube head, in perfect shape - for $20!!




I was going to go last weekend but had a session pop up.
DAMN IT!!!
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: djwayne on March 20, 2006, 11:34:50 pm
You guys got me beat, I found this little Yamaha GA-10 practice amp for $10. It didn't work when I got it, but I found a couple of loose wires and replaced a missing fuse, and now it works just great. 10 watts, and a nice little Yamaha speaker. It's loud enough to tick off the neighbors, but also can put out a nice clean sound.   It may not be the deal of the century, but hey, it's a nice little practice amp for $10, and okay for me. I still need to get some new knobs for it, but that's just peanuts.
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: djwayne on March 20, 2006, 11:37:41 pm
I got this guitar at the same time, and I really like it. The guitar was extra.
Title: Re: Guitar Amp For the Studio
Post by: theo mack on March 25, 2006, 02:04:26 am
Vertigo wrote on Sun, 05 March 2006 09:42

BTW - I'll check out that 906. The e609 black-face is a favorite of mine for guitar cabs, but they're getting really hard to find now.

-Lance



Dude!
shhhhhhh.
no they are terrible and everyone should send them to me for proper disposal.

Seriously, I remember when the first E609 came out and everyone talked smack about it being "no MD409". It was a bit more expensive at first, but 6 months after it came out you could get them at fullcompass for $150.  One of my fav guit amp mics ever.  The later silver 609 doesnt have the low mid magic of the first gen E609.
I need to try the 906 to see if it's like the good 609.

BTW the best marshall rhy tone I ever heard was a un modified jcm800 50 watt head and matching 4 12 slant box.  It was winter '96 at baby monster in nyc.
get this: It was covered with factory green tolex. Must have been a aniversary edition or something. I check pawns out for these amps all the time, never seen another one. Bob Quine was playing, that had a lot to do with the sound too.