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R/E/P => R/E/P Archives => j. hall => Topic started by: electrical on December 20, 2005, 05:57:25 pm

Title: Who was more important?
Post by: electrical on December 20, 2005, 05:57:25 pm
This came up as part of the discussion of a lecture I gave. I'd like to see what the panel thinks regarding this question:

Which has proven to be more important to music and culture generally, mainstream music of the 1980s or underground music of the 1980s. I'll use Wang Chung and the Minutemen as exemplars of their respective idioms.

Wang Chung: Huge hit records on major label. Big hits on radio. Featured in many movie soundtracks and TV commercials. Played concerts to tens-of-thousands.

Minutemen: Independent records sold in the couple-of-thousands. Only played on college radio. Toured "econo" in a van, playing to hundreds of people in clubs.

Show your work.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: NelsonL on December 20, 2005, 06:14:11 pm
I've got the facts, and I'm voting corndog.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: TotalSonic on December 20, 2005, 06:18:20 pm
electrical wrote on Tue, 20 December 2005 22:57

This came up as part of the discussion of a lecture I gave. I'd like to see what the panel thinks regarding this question:

Which has proven to be more important to music and culture generally, mainstream music of the 1980s or underground music of the 1980s. I'll use Wang Chung and the Minutemen as exemplars of their respective idioms.

Show your work.


I of course voted for Minutemen.  But, with all due respect, yer poll is way way loaded and fairly pointless.  I simply don't know of anyone who would ever consider a one hit wonder hopeless mediocrity like Wang Chung to be "exemplar of their respective idiom"

Why not change the poll to have it be Minutemen vs. Steely Dan?   I'm not of a fan of "the Dan"s ultraslick productions by any means - but I know tons of engineers who consider their recordings from the late 70's/80's to be a reference they measure their own works against.  That would be a lot fairer fight for purposes of your poll.

It would show whether people feel that technically well recorded songs played with metronomic precision were more important than banged out things that had a heckuva lot of vibe and feeling.

I mean - if we want just a bunch of apples vs. oranges polls we could say
Public Enemy vs. The Stooges
John Coltrane vs. Terry Riley
Arcade Fire vs. Motorhead
Godzilla vs. Iron Man
John Oate's mustache vs. Gabe Kaplan's
or whatever pointless thing poeple want to get into...

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: electrical on December 20, 2005, 06:23:14 pm
TotalSonic wrote on Tue, 20 December 2005 18:18


Public Enemy vs. The Stooges
Stooges

Quote:

John Coltrane vs. Terry Riley
Terry Riley

Quote:

Arcade Fire vs. Motorhead
Motorhead

Quote:

Godzilla vs. Iron Man
Godzilla

Quote:

John Oate's mustache vs. Gabe Kaplan's
Gabe's

Any other questions?
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: pg666 on December 20, 2005, 06:26:08 pm
i think the wang chungs of the 80s were very influential on our current cultural climate..

....of course, that's strictly for kitsch value as the mainstream music of the 80s was the most tacky, decadent, and easy-to-guess-what-year-it-was-made music of all time (the psychadelic era being a close second).
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: TotalSonic on December 20, 2005, 06:39:26 pm
hee hee - nice answers.  

I'm a gigantic gigantic Terry Riley fan - I count his just intonated piano concert at NEC in 1985 as one of the greatest things I've ever seen live - but c'mon - over Coltrane??  yer insane

I'm sure Terry would never want to be compared this way though - the whole point is that those two co-exist on different sides of the same plane - so as choices in a poll it's absolutely absurd.   I call it a draw.

got to say though that in terms of being "something new" Hiphop in the 80's was a WAY bigger innovation than anything that came out of the 80's rock underground - and this is coming from a gigantic fan of bands like MOB, Fugazi, Dog Faced Hermans, etc. etc.  
So - I love Iggy and the Asheton brothers to death - but Chuck D  and the whole Bomb Squad seems to me more "important" in terms of actually having changed the world by the way they created their sounds.  
So - flame away everyone!

Your right that if it came to a tiff Lemmy would just spit out the unchewed skin of those poor guys from Montreal though.

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Plush on December 20, 2005, 07:04:26 pm
Absurd choices in your poll.
Please try to be less cryptic.

thankyasomuch,

Hudsonek
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: electrical on December 20, 2005, 07:09:16 pm
Plush wrote on Tue, 20 December 2005 19:04

Absurd choices in your poll.
Please try to be less cryptic.

thankyasomuch,

Hudsonek

I think they are pretty good examples of their idioms. Are you unfamiliar with Wang Chung? They were at least as popular as Quarterflash, and orders of magnitude more popular than the Minutemen.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: maxdimario on December 20, 2005, 07:10:18 pm
It's funny that when black flag, dead kennedys, articles of faith, suicidal tendencies etc. were starting out, mainstream people used to laugh and make fun of them, saying the music was a joke, the guys couldn't play. same goes for the slayer/metallica type groups.

everything about the various scenes was based on originality and creativity, and not bowing down to posing fake music-making.

I remember one young (early thrash-metal) band being booed off the 'stage' because they were playing covers and were posing.

anyway the whole spirit was to be as anti-commercial as you could get.

which made the whole grunge/green day type of thing a bit weird to me... now everybody acts and plays on the ideals of the indie bands of the early 80's etc. but with a commercial/corporate twist to it. metallica is ...mainstream...

it just goes to show you that the ONLY way to keep new music alive is to let it flourish in a scene..

record company assembled music usually only contributes to stagnation and death of musical spirit..as time has proven.

all new talent is necessarily indie talent..

but indie music is becoming a genre now...which is more of a record company music thing, ..genres are marketing tools.


stay away from fashions media and journalism, support your local scene, that's the way I feel, anyway.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: TotalSonic on December 20, 2005, 07:15:04 pm
electrical wrote on Wed, 21 December 2005 00:09

Plush wrote on Tue, 20 December 2005 19:04

Absurd choices in your poll.
Please try to be less cryptic.

thankyasomuch,

Hudsonek

I think they are pretty good examples of their idioms. Are you unfamiliar with Wang Chung? They were at least as popular as Quarterflash, and orders of magnitude more popular than the Minutemen.



True during the years they existed - but completely untrue now - I'd say Minutemen have a heckuva lot more fans than the WC do.  

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: TheViking on December 20, 2005, 07:17:43 pm
You know...   funny you mention it.   I was having fun and Wanging Chung just last night.   You know where my vote is.

Thanks for being here, Steve!
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: NelsonL on December 20, 2005, 07:30:25 pm
Steve, your comparison is bogus. Please send me the original text so I can use sentence replacer and correct your thoughts.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Lee Tyler on December 20, 2005, 07:36:02 pm
Don't know much about Wang Chung, but Chung-King
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: lucey on December 20, 2005, 07:52:37 pm
I have a hard time finding an answer with "more important" as the criteria, Steve.  What do you mean by that?

I prefer the Minutemen and that whole side of things from that era, but both groups were important to their different circles I suppose, and from time to time I'll be annoyed to find myself humming along with Wang Chung in the grocery store.   I just feel strongly that these arguments take away from individuals actually LISTENING to music and thinking for themselves.

Some years ago we were at a club and a band many have now heard of, called Modest Mouse, were set to play ... we knew their name but had never heard them and were interested in maybe sticking around to check it out  ... so we asked a young girl who was talkative and seemed up on new music what Modest Mouse sounded like?

Our first question was, "What are they like?"  

"Oh they're very important"

Try as we did to rephrase this question in a way that got an answer describing the band's actual music, it's energy or feel, it's instruments or themes, it's vibe or spirit or message or whatever ... all she had to say was "they're very important", and variations on that same mantra.

She's not unique. That sense of what's important has consumed and to some extent kept afloat many so called indy bands.  A good thing in that regard, yet often leading to self absorption, an ugly quality for a genre once about not giving a fuk and just banging it out for the love if it.

So what do you mean by important?  Influential?  Creative?  Timeless? What?
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: electrical on December 20, 2005, 07:56:02 pm
lucey wrote on Tue, 20 December 2005 19:52


So what do you mean by important?  Influential?  Creative?  Timeless? What?

I suppose different things are important to different people. They will answer this question for themselves, and that's as it should be. Surely it means something to you, so answer as you see fit.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: pipelineaudio on December 20, 2005, 08:05:13 pm
Lets see, wuss-ass pop40 cover band vs. wuss-ass artsy fartsy band who I accidentally boight since a record clerk stuck it in the punk bin because he didnt know where to put it

great

How bout Madonna vs Dayglo Abortions instead?

Or U2 vs. Crass ?
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Ron Steele on December 20, 2005, 08:51:36 pm
I'm gonna go on a limb and say.............neither.

Rolling Eyes

Both are disposable to me.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Curve Dominant on December 20, 2005, 09:11:16 pm
electrical wrote on Tue, 20 December 2005 22:57

I'll use Wang Chung and the Minutemen as exemplars of their respective idioms.


What is it with you and Wang Chung? You seem to have an unhealthy obsession with this band.

I noticed you never use bands like Duran Duran or Depeche Mode or New Order as your examples. Out of all the mainstream 80's pop bands, you have to use a 1-hit wonder like Wang Chung to completely skew your test example with.

Although, I did kinda dig their theme song for "To Live And Die In L.A."
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: John Ivan on December 20, 2005, 10:03:00 pm
I think I see where your goin' here. I guess I'll answer like this..

The underground scene tends to swell up in local music scenes and this can be the healthiest way to start a new "sound" or a new "attitude" that can grow into a national thing. That's what I see as important from a $$$$ stand point. Also, Ideas and messages that would not other wise surface can come up this way and change how kids think about things.. having to "pass the test" with a local fan base can be a good way to filter out the poser's of the world too..

Having said all that, from a musical standpoint, I didn't get some of these "ground swells" that took the country/world by storm. This is coming from a guy though, who likes old school soul and R&B and rock music that sounds like someone in the band,knows something,,anything, about music.. When we were putting together 8 and 10 member horn bands and mixing rock and funk together back in the early 90's, we were overwhelmed by rock bands that sounded like the band I was in in 7th grade.We couldn't play for fucking FREE,{and frankly, the band was killer!!} So, for me, the 90's "grunge" thing was a real drag from a musical standpoint. It was just fucking empty. Period. Also, I found it interesting and sad that all these kid's who had a warm place to live and plenty to eat seemed to take on this "poor me" shit. It was all so fucking dark and just shitty from a musical stand point.. YUK!!!


Now, having said that, this is what is so great about the power of music. It is a youth thing and it gives these kids a way to vent and feel part of something and that is mostly a good thing,even when you take into account all the dead people who took to many drugs .. It's a mixed bag for sure. It drives the culture forward for better and for worse..

I think bands like YES and The Moody Blues did way more to drive MUSIC forward. The "what's hip this week" thing is a different story all together.

So my answer will have be on the subject of music and in that case, I don't see how either band has even a passing importance. At least, not for me..

Again,, the great thing about all this is that there are thousands of people who disagree with me. There by making it possible for everyone to have music they really dig in their CD player,or their turn table, or like me, old recordings from the 50's of Latin shit pouring from my Sony 1/4 track machine. ;-} It's fucking great man, there is so much great stuff out there for everyone..

Ivan...............................
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: rnicklaus on December 20, 2005, 10:10:12 pm
Seeing how two of the members of Wang Chung went on to do other great things, this should be an easy one.

Both Vera Wang AND Connie Chung had huge success outside of the band.



Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: danmohr on December 20, 2005, 11:09:07 pm
TotalSonic wrote on Wed, 21 December 2005 00:15

electrical wrote on Wed, 21 December 2005 00:09

Plush wrote on Tue, 20 December 2005 19:04

Absurd choices in your poll.
Please try to be less cryptic.

thankyasomuch,

Hudsonek

I think they are pretty good examples of their idioms. Are you unfamiliar with Wang Chung? They were at least as popular as Quarterflash, and orders of magnitude more popular than the Minutemen.



True during the years they existed - but completely untrue now - I'd say Minutemen have a heckuva lot more fans than the WC do.  




I think that's the point although one could observe even today that *far* more people would recognize the music of Wang Chung upon hearing it than would recognize the music of The Minutemen.

pipelineaudio wrote on Wed, 21 December 2005 01:05

Lets see, wuss-ass pop40 cover band vs. wuss-ass artsy fartsy band who I accidentally boight since a record clerk stuck it in the punk bin because he didnt know where to put it


Yes, other your completely baseless characterization of The Minutemen, the band whose combination of aesthetic and work ethic can pretty much obliterate all but a handful of bands (Fugazi, Silkworm, etc.).  You got it, smart guy.

Dan
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: bblackwood on December 20, 2005, 11:45:46 pm
Artistically, it's the Minutemen and the underground scene.

From a purely influential impact perspective, you have to go with Wang Chung.

In the long term, I think that the mainstream music has a longer lasting, more important impact as it affects a greater number of people in a larger variety of ways.

Then again, you ever see the Big Star poster that shows the family tree of bands who give them credit as being a huge influence? It's rather strange to see how much modern music wouldn't exist as we know it if this relatively unknown band from the early 70's hadn't done their thing...
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: MB on December 21, 2005, 12:25:29 am
pipelineaudio wrote on Wed, 21 December 2005 02:05



How bout Madonna vs Dayglo Abortions instead?




Like a Virgin versus Dogfarts.

It's a wash.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: pipelineaudio on December 21, 2005, 12:52:22 am
Quote:

Yes, other your completely baseless characterization of The Minutemen, the band whose combination of aesthetic and work ethic can pretty much obliterate all but a handful of bands

Fugazi,

You got it, smart guy.

Dan


Oh puhleeze the Led Zepplin of punk rock and dingy emo weenieness

I love minor threat, but fugazi

blech
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Ronny on December 21, 2005, 01:24:08 am


I saw the Minutemen in Israel back in 1991, they were a blast.


Wang Chung couldn't hold a candle to Quarterflash, that girl could really blow a horn.  Smile
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: lucey on December 21, 2005, 01:48:59 am
electrical wrote on Tue, 20 December 2005 17:57

 mainstream music of the 1980s or underground music of the 1980s.


Underground music, until grunge made punk pop and poserly ...

Rock died with MTV, it's spirit got drunk and played out of tune.

Pop since video is mostly commerical fodder, egotism, visuals.

Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: pg666 on December 21, 2005, 09:19:08 am
Quote:

Then again, you ever see the Big Star poster that shows the family tree of bands who give them credit as being a huge influence? It's rather strange to see how much modern music wouldn't exist as we know it if this relatively unknown band from the early 70's hadn't done their thing...


i think that's exactly the point. who goes out and starts a band after hearing "everybody wang chung tonight"? (besides maybe a few geeks back in 1985..)

i think that's a good indicator of 'importance'; ie. if the music continues to inspire people to get involved in music long after it was made.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: J.J. Blair on December 21, 2005, 01:13:54 pm
rnicklaus wrote on Tue, 20 December 2005 19:10

Seeing how two of the members of Wang Chung went on to do other great things, this should be an easy one.

Both Vera Wang AND Connie Chung had huge success outside of the band.


I just snotted myself on that one.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: brandondrury on December 21, 2005, 02:45:30 pm
"Don't Let Go" made it to number 36, while "Dance Hall Days" reached number 16

the number two hit "Everybody Have Fun Tonight" and the Top Ten "Let's Go!"


This was copy and pasted from here: http://www.vh1.com/artists/az/wang_chung/bio.jhtml

I think a big part of this discussion is age.  I was just learning how to cuss when this band had their first hit.  I've not been exposed to the Minutemen so I can't speak for them.

These days I'm working 80 hours a week, I have huge bags underneath my eyes, and I pretty much feel like shit.  If just happened to drunk off my ass at the local college bar, I'd rather hear Wang Chung.  It may not be intelligent, but it's certainly fun.

Then again, when I hear modern music that intellectually devoid, I become furious.  It just depends on where you are in life when you hear crap.

Brandon
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: micguy on December 21, 2005, 05:06:10 pm
I'd vote for U2 - popular and critical success, and they do what they want to, not what people tell them to. Wang Chung and the Ninutemen have pieces of the puzzle, but neither had the whole puzzle.

I know, unfair, but that's my answer.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: telefunky on December 21, 2005, 09:53:24 pm
Curve Dominant wrote: I noticed you never use bands like Duran Duran or Depeche Mode or New Order as your examples. Out of all the mainstream 80's pop bands
You are obviously not old enough to remember the 80's if you are under the impression that Depeche Mode and New Order were "mainstream 80's pop bands".  They were played on only a few stations in even fewer cities, and the kids in school that liked those kinds of bands were very much on the cutting edge.  I think this is a general misunderstanding of 80's music that is prevalent in 20 somethings today.  Mainstream in the 80's was Phil Collins, Madonna, Michael Jackson, Prince, Asia, Men at Work, Huey Lewis, J. Geils, etc.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Alex Maiolo on December 21, 2005, 11:57:59 pm
I'd give it to the Minutemen, and not just because I like them more.

The Minutemen were one of the greatest influences on Indie, Do It Yourself, whatever you want to call it, culture. They launched a thousand bands because people believed That Band Could Be Their Life.

The repercussions went far beyond the actual bands they spawned. An entire indie culture formed and the idea of recording lost a lot of it's mystery. "If Spot can do it, why can't I?"
You mentioned yourself that "vibe" was the key with them, warts and all. So, if you recorded your best friend's band on an X-15, drunk on the ad you saw in Guitar Player that reminded you that Sgt. Pepper was done the same way (you know...kind of...) it probably was the result of the Econo mindset. A record didn't have to sound like Tony Visconti did it to be deemd "good" anymore, at least by some of us. That didn't happen with the Sex Pistols, with their Svengali and his ideas of a proper anti-image. The Ramones recorded in "real" NYC studios, because that's what you did back then. What Makes a Man Start Fires? could have been recorded in any room, on any width tape, on any machine, with any mics and it would have been just as good as the one we know, as long as the people who made it (everyone) loved what they were doing.

Wang Chung was just a point long the curve, if you'll pardon the pun. I assume they used the best gear the day had to offer, studio time cost was irrelevant and they were geniuses in the eyes of the coke fueled engineers. Same with the flavors of the years before them (Pablo Cruise) and after (uh...Warrant?). The same could be said for Tears for Fears, Thompson Twins and a whole host of others from that time. There will always be some sort of Wang Chung in any given year. Even if the band's a turd, it can be polished.
The Minutemen were part of a true movement that has yet to be repeated.
The last grassroots "movement" that came along was Alt. Country/No Depression, and it didn't really live up to it's promise, did it?

The age old test:
Strum out "Everybody Have Fun Tonight" on your acoustic. How does it sound without the double tracks, reverb, horn section, etc.?
Now do the same with the simple "Bob Dylan Wrote Propaganda Songs."
Go ahead...I'll wait.
Which one makes you want to go out and form a band *right now*?
That's what I thought.

I would wager that the few who decided they wanted to do music for a living after hearing Wang Chung gave it up and moved on to a "normal" life eventually.
The majority of the Minutemen people probably still buy records, see shows or do something musical on a regular basis.

It's tough to talk about the Minutemen right now without sounding biased. The new movie is out an nostalgia is high. Last week I was asked to play at it's local premiere, along with 7 other bands, and I decided we'd do techno/electroclash versions of the songs just to show how strong they are in any style. it worked surprisingly well. I doubt you could do alt. versions of Wang Chung songs with the same success.

Wang Chung were good at what they did and I hope they are living comfortably in a country house somewhere. However, if you're asking me if I Want New Wave Or The Truth, I'm going with the latter because I've built my life around it.




Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Tidewater on December 22, 2005, 12:00:22 am
Wang Chung. Were you guys not there?

Music I've never heard is not influencing me, not even a little bit.

M
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: jimmyjazz on December 22, 2005, 12:06:50 am
Of course,the hip answer is the Minutemen.  I was a legitimate fan of both artists, though, and without a trace of contrarianism, I'd have to go with Wang Chung.  I think their brand of synth-pop was significantly more well-conceived than that of most of their peers, and as such, they showed that what was largely a genre devoid of any soul could hit some high notes.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: kraster on December 22, 2005, 12:13:28 am
Alex Maiolo wrote on Thu, 22 December 2005 04:57



Wang Chung were good at what they did and I hope they are living comfortably in a country house somewhere. However, if you're asking me if I Want New Wave Or The Truth, I'm going with the latter because I've built my life around it.







Not so fast :

"In June 2005, Hues and Feldman reunited as Wang Chung on the hit reality TV series Hit Me Baby One More Time performing "Everybody Have Fun Tonight" and a cover of "Hot in Herre" by Nelly

Shortly after, and on the net at WangChung.com as well as Myspace.com/WangChungTheBand ... there was news of a new Wang Chung album being worked on by Jack Hues and Nick Feldman. In an e-mail response from Jack Hues, he said, "We are shooting for a release around the March [2006] timeframe and a tour in May. We are not sure who we are touring with yet, maybe Heaven 17 or Devo." ... Also on MySpace.com/WangChungTheBand you can hear new clips such as "Hot In Herre" (The Nelly Cover) and a new song "I Was Abducted By The 80's".


http://www.wangchung.com/images/indexfrontpage/wangchung.gif



The horror continues....
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: TheViking on December 22, 2005, 01:35:41 am
Let's go back to the whole definition of 'important'.   Ultimately, it could be argued that neither are important because honestly, there are better things to listen to overall.   This question is loaded.   Personally, if I'm contemplating a selection to listen to in any situation, you're not going to find me reaching for a record by either of these artists.

This question makes me want to watch High Fidelity.

"If I were to say to you 'I haven't seen Evil Dead 2 yet?' would you think I didn't want to see it, or would you think I really did want to see it?"
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: carne_de_res on December 22, 2005, 03:34:43 pm
i'd say the Minutemen resulted more important in the end.

if them and a handful of other bands hadn't mercilessly toured every corner of the USA and made such brilliant records the underground scene wouldn't have developed at all.

the Minutemen, Sonic Youth , Big Black, Beat Happening and other great indipendent bands (and their labels) helped build the underground scene and paved the way for the so-called "grunge" breakout in the 90's (Nirvana, Pixies, Breeders et al.).

the Minutemen, she's such a great band. she's more important than that faghina Wang Chung.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: hillbilly on December 22, 2005, 04:59:41 pm
I really liked Wang Chung. Good '80's hooks and production.

"Live And Die In L.A." soundtrack was cool too.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: zboy2854 on December 23, 2005, 09:10:02 am
The question is a form of Rorshach test, everyone sees something different in the answer.

As for me, the answer is blue.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: pipelineaudio on December 23, 2005, 05:21:54 pm
carne_de_res wrote on Thu, 22 December 2005 20:34

i'd say the Minutemen resulted more important in the end.

if them and a handful of other bands hadn't mercilessly toured every corner of the USA and made such brilliant records the underground scene wouldn't have developed at all.

the Minutemen, Sonic Youth , Big Black, Beat Happening and other great indipendent bands (and their labels) helped build the underground scene and paved the way for the so-called "grunge" breakout in the 90's (Nirvana, Pixies, Breeders et al.).

the Minutemen, she's such a great band. she's more important than that faghina Wang Chung.


You know, if you replaced "minutemen" with Circle Jerks and "sonic youth" with The Mentors I would agree with you, but the minutemen?

who?
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Statick on December 24, 2005, 11:14:10 am
my vote goes for the underground, always. there is always much more interesting work going on with lesser known acts.

i'm lucky in that where i live in the UK (near bristol) has one of the most vibrant underground music scenes in the world at the moment. keep an ear out guys, you'll be hearing a lot from this city in the coming few years...
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Ronny on December 24, 2005, 11:59:19 am
Statick wrote on Sat, 24 December 2005 11:14

my vote goes for the underground, always. there is always much more interesting work going on with lesser known acts.

i'm lucky in that where i live in the UK (near bristol) has one of the most vibrant underground music scenes in the world at the moment. keep an ear out guys, you'll be hearing a lot from this city in the coming few years...



I don't doubt that for one bit. I'm not really into techno music, but Jammer from Bristol is doing some great stuff. I recently bought a live cd, only one song on it that's about 60 minutes long and it holds my total interest from the first note played to the last.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Gone on December 24, 2005, 03:46:52 pm
The easiest way to answer the question is to not try to directly compare the two...

Wang Chung had a number of hits, but were obviously a 'singles' band, with no major albums to speak of. I believe their albums proper are out of print (in the US, anyway), available as greatest hits packages only. I don't recall ever hearing their contemporaries or bands in similar genres that came after referring to them as an influence. They will go down in music video history first and foremost for their seizure-inducing video (and for making what's generally considered a horrible mistake - using the band name within a song). I would say the majority of people who like new wave have a LONG, LONG list of artists who come before Wang Chung. They might rank just above 'Taco'.

The Minutemen's "Double Nickels" is considered (depending on who you talk to) a minor or major classic in the genre. It, and most if not all their other work, is still in print and widely available. I have read and spoken to many bands who list them as an influence (even those who play much different music), or something they listened to heavily in their formative years. Their music will be passed down through the generations of punk/hardcore/alternative/indie listeners, (like Minor Threat, Husker Du, etc). and continue to be important and influential to a relatively small crowd.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Larrchild on December 24, 2005, 04:16:08 pm
As Saturday Night Live used to say:
"Quines mas Macho?  A. Robert Stack  B. Lloyd Bridges

Everyone knows it's B.

I'm gonna say that for the .1% of people on earth who have heard of both, Minutemen changed your thinking more, and are therefore, more important.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: rnicklaus on December 24, 2005, 05:54:45 pm
When you claim Minutemen records are "widely available" where is that?

It is much easier to go out and find 20th Century Masters on Wang Chung (not that I would want to) than a Minutemen album.

Wang Chung had one record go Gold, "Mosaic".  

They had a hit with Dance Hall Days in '84,  and their biggest hit, Everybody Have Fun Tonight in '86.

In the middle they did the film track To Live and Die In LA which was all over MTV.

Minutemen?  No doubt more credible.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: holger on December 25, 2005, 09:45:11 am
telefunky wrote on Wed, 21 December 2005 21:53

Curve Dominant wrote: I noticed you never use bands like Duran Duran or Depeche Mode or New Order as your examples. Out of all the mainstream 80's pop bands
You are obviously not old enough to remember the 80's if you are under the impression that Depeche Mode and New Order were "mainstream 80's pop bands".  They were played on only a few stations in even fewer cities, and the kids in school that liked those kinds of bands were very much on the cutting edge.  I think this is a general misunderstanding of 80's music that is prevalent in 20 somethings today.  Mainstream in the 80's was Phil Collins, Madonna, Michael Jackson, Prince, Asia, Men at Work, Huey Lewis, J. Geils, etc.

hi telefunky,
what you said might be right for the u.s., but both bands mentioned were very popular in europe in the 80`s. i saw depeche mode in 85 playing a sold out 8000 venue.
for the original question: when more important means more influencal: minutemen.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Bob Olhsson on December 25, 2005, 04:16:14 pm
I can assure you that fact that you've even heard of somebody means they were really mainstream. Being "anti-establishment" or "authentic" is a popular posture but it has only very rarely been anything other than a show-biz pose.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Level on December 25, 2005, 05:40:23 pm
To me, all music is important. It is up to how each of us accept it, favor it or not..what determines importance in our own minds.
This said, these days so much music is out there and if you like the familar canons of popular music, you will simply hear another watered down repeat of something you heard years ago.

... unique music does not make it "better or worse". One persons Warhol is another persons Picasso. One not more important that the other, just accepted by different people different ways.

I also firmly believe if the Floyd were not well produced and well distributed, you may not have ever heard of them.

Not much of Pink Floyds music is really hard to perform or groundbreaking..but the productions themselves were. Many very high talented people working as a team. Likewise with the Stones.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: maxim on December 25, 2005, 06:22:57 pm
art is not a sport

despite what the music biz believes, there is no gold or platinum winner

i am NOT competing with the other musicians out there, quite the opposite, one person's success makes another's more likely

it's just that this idea has been corrupted by the middlemen, who see it only as competition for the punters' lunchtime sandwich dollar
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Bob Olhsson on December 25, 2005, 07:18:00 pm
To quote my first wife, an exceptionally talented sculptor, music is NOT art no matter how hard the backstage-pass/groupie seeking pop music reviewers try to spin it! I think it's a lot more like sports than like art because it's all about individual and team performance.

The only thing anybody can expect to get paid for is entertainment value. That depends on communication, accessibility and having something to say that people find engaging.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Jonas as on December 25, 2005, 08:47:56 pm
Bob Olhsson wrote on Mon, 26 December 2005 01:18

To quote my first wife, an exceptionally talented sculptor, music is NOT art no matter how hard the backstage-pass/groupie seeking pop music reviewers try to spin it!


I hold your opinions in very high regard, Bob, I've learnt incredibly much from you.
But please excuse me this one time:

What you are saying in the above quote, is pure Bullshit.

Sorry. Embarassed
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: maxim on December 25, 2005, 10:19:42 pm

bob o wrote:

"The only thing anybody can expect to get paid for is entertainment value."

you amaze me with your cynicism

did your first wife make sculptures only in order to get paid?

and while we're not on your forum in the marsh pit, i'll say this too:

MUSIC IS FREE!
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Gone on December 25, 2005, 11:10:41 pm
rnicklaus wrote on Sat, 24 December 2005 16:54

When you claim Minutemen records are "widely available" where is that?

It is much easier to go out and find 20th Century Masters on Wang Chung (not that I would want to) than a Minutemen album.



Locally, I've seen Minutemen albums in Tower, Virgin, and any number of independently owned or small chain stores. Some of the larger selection Best Buys may have too. My point being they are stil in print.

Yes, it's easy to find (IMO - lame) 20th Cen masters, but, as I tried to suggest in my post, greatest hits are a different animal than proper albums. I don't think you could find any proper Wang Chung albums in any store, I haven't seen one in years. I believe most of them are out of print ("Huang Chung" for instance). Once you're "in-print" only via greatest hits, well, that's a sad thing in my opinion.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: rnicklaus on December 26, 2005, 03:03:00 pm
Nick Eipers wrote on Sun, 25 December 2005 20:10

rnicklaus wrote on Sat, 24 December 2005 16:54

When you claim Minutemen records are "widely available" where is that?

It is much easier to go out and find 20th Century Masters on Wang Chung (not that I would want to) than a Minutemen album.



Locally, I've seen Minutemen albums in Tower, Virgin, and any number of independently owned or small chain stores. Some of the larger selection Best Buys may have too. My point being they are stil in print.

Yes, it's easy to find (IMO - lame) 20th Cen masters, but, as I tried to suggest in my post, greatest hits are a different animal than proper albums. I don't think you could find any proper Wang Chung albums in any store, I haven't seen one in years. I believe most of them are out of print ("Huang Chung" for instance). Once you're "in-print" only via greatest hits, well, that's a sad thing in my opinion.



To some it may be a matter of which one brings the greatest annuity in terms of income.  If retail (that doesn't like to stock catalog anymore) would rather take a 70K outlay of the 20th century masters of Wang Chung or a 3K spread of a Minutemen CD, is it up to outsiders to decide which is better?
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Kenny Gioia on January 01, 2006, 01:56:43 pm
Why does music have to be important?

I think if you asked Wang Chung if they were actually "trying" to make important music that they would say an emphatic "NO".

Nothing disgusts me more than an Artist or Band who believes that they are important.

The world seems all the more happy to prove them wrong.    see: Oasis.

Peace.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Kenny Gioia on January 01, 2006, 02:00:57 pm
maxim wrote on Sun, 25 December 2005 22:19



and while we're not on your forum in the marsh pit, i'll say this too:

MUSIC IS FREE!



You're an ass.

Your music is free because it is worthless.

Some of us were blessed with talent.

Soorry.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: electrical on January 01, 2006, 02:21:50 pm
Kenny Gioia wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 14:00

maxim wrote on Sun, 25 December 2005 22:19



and while we're not on your forum in the marsh pit, i'll say this too:

MUSIC IS FREE!



You're an ass.

Your music is free because it is worthless.

Some of us were blessed with talent.

Soorry.

Hey! This is the second time someone has been a dick on this forum! Congratulations Kenny Gioia, You're our second dick!

Happy New Year, dick!
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: electrical on January 01, 2006, 02:24:54 pm
Kenny Gioia wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 13:56


Nothing disgusts me more than an Artist or Band who believes that they are important.

Nothing disgusts me more than the postmodern notion that it's cool to be insubstantial, and better yet to be trivial.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Slipperman on January 01, 2006, 02:32:59 pm
Quote:


Hey! This is the second time someone has been a dick on this forum! Congratulations Kenny Gioia, You're our second dick!

Happy New Year, dick!


Whoooooeeeeee!!!!!

LMFBO.

Just when I thought this was gonna turn into a repeat of the Massenburg snoozefest.

Happy New Year Jayne!!!

Richard III


Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Tidewater on January 01, 2006, 03:09:14 pm
I'd break into song, if I wouldn't violate copyrights!

Let me get clearance!


M
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: jordancgeiger on January 01, 2006, 05:09:30 pm
All I know is, in terms of influence, I've met many, many musicians that have been directly influenced by the Minutemen to start a band with their friends, go on tour, make music that springs directly from their world, develop a sense of community and mutual respect with their fans, and feel confident in the (use) value of their work regardless of its (exchange) monetary value or popularity.
I seriously doubt Wang Chung has been as influencial in this sense.
The popular music industry tells a young person that music is not art in the sense that anyone can make it (a physical manifestation of a concept), only in the sense that a "genius" or "special person" through means invisible to the viewer (huge amounts of money, recording/video production, promotion)crafts a "hit song" which itself is also a non-contextual and non-particular fetish object.  
The Minuteman stand in complete contrast to this, and by virtue of being transparent, particular, ridiculously easy to relate to, and employing humble means, they are more influencial.
jordan
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Kenny Gioia on January 01, 2006, 10:31:41 pm
electrical wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 14:21

Kenny Gioia wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 14:00

maxim wrote on Sun, 25 December 2005 22:19



and while we're not on your forum in the marsh pit, i'll say this too:

MUSIC IS FREE!



You're an ass.

Your music is free because it is worthless.

Some of us were blessed with talent.

Soorry.

Hey! This is the second time someone has been a dick on this forum! Congratulations Kenny Gioia, You're our second dick!

Happy New Year, dick!


I was merely sticking up for a friend who surely doesn't deserve a fuck you from one of your minion.

Bob Ohlson has forgotten more than most of you know.

Give him respect or cower away.

Don't FUCK with me dickwad.

I admire your principles but your records suck ass.

Happy New Year Semi Pro Day Rate Mother Fucka!!!!!
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: maxim on January 01, 2006, 10:33:05 pm
kenny wrote:

"You're an ass."

it's like being insulted by george bush.. kinda warm and fuzzy and at the same time amusing

"Your music is free because it is worthless."

me and a whole bunch of decomposing composers

"Some of us were blessed with talent."

you and wang chung

"Soorry."

never mind
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Kenny Gioia on January 01, 2006, 10:33:35 pm
electrical wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 14:24

Kenny Gioia wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 13:56


Nothing disgusts me more than an Artist or Band who believes that they are important.

Nothing disgusts me more than the postmodern notion that it's cool to be insubstantial, and better yet to be trivial.




Some of us just enjoy music.

Others believe "they" matter.

The latter are fools.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Kenny Gioia on January 01, 2006, 10:37:15 pm
maxim wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 22:33

kenny wrote:

"You're an ass."

it's like being insulted by george bush.. kinda warm and fuzzy and at the same time amusing

"Your music is free because it is worthless."

me and a whole bunch of decomposing composers

"Some of us were blessed with talent."

you and wang chung

"Soorry."

never mind


How do I respond to a non response?

I guess you're one of those non-confrontational pussies.

That's cool. Just show Bob some respect or prepare to be destroyed.

I kid you not.


Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: maxim on January 01, 2006, 10:37:59 pm
kenny also wrote:

"I was merely sticking up for a friend who surely doesn't deserve a fuck you from one of your minion."

correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't think bob really needs your help

"Don't FUCK with me dickwad."

i'm sure that's the LAST thing on anyone's mind

Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Kenny Gioia on January 01, 2006, 10:42:19 pm
maxim wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 22:37

kenny also wrote:

"I was merely sticking up for a friend who surely doesn't deserve a fuck you from one of your minion."

correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't think bob really needs your help

"Don't FUCK with me dickwad."

i'm sure that's the LAST thing on his mind





Your right.

Bob doesn't need me to defend him.

But he has enuff class to stay away from ridicule from a pompous little cretin like yourself.

Me. I could give two fucks.

Shut up and respect the man.

I would apologize if I were you.

But than again, I don't eat my own semen.

Peace.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: maxim on January 01, 2006, 10:45:45 pm
kenny wrote:

"How do I respond to a non response?"

you just did, you numnut

"I guess you're one of those non-confrontational pussies."

true, i don't really like fighting (partly, why i stay away from the macho brawling marsh pit )

"That's cool. Just show Bob some respect or prepare to be destroyed."

bob and i have RESPECTFULLY disagreed on a number of occasions (at least, from my side)

"I kid you not."

you're kidding, right?

that's you in the cute picture , isn't it?
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: electrical on January 01, 2006, 10:51:43 pm
Kenny Gioia wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 22:31


I was merely sticking up for a friend who surely doesn't deserve a fuck you from one of your minion.

Bob Ohlson has forgotten more than most of you know.

Give him respect or cower away.

Don't FUCK with me dickwad.

I admire your principles but your records suck ass.

Happy New Year Semi Pro Day Rate Mother Fucka!!!!!


I have a minion? I am Semi Pro? My records suck ass? I am a dickwad?

You are a class act, Kenny Gioia. And restless. You have your own forum to occupy yourself, and you still find time to come over here and tell people their music sucks.

If I had ever heard anything you've done, maybe I could return the compliments. As it sits, you get to wake up tomorrow and be Kenny Gioia for another day, and I get to be me. Good luck with that.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: maxim on January 01, 2006, 11:01:32 pm
steve wrote:

"I have a minion?"

yes, even more hilariously, apparently, that's me

btw, i do apologise for the dig i had at bob's forum, i feel i may have stooped to kenny's level

in my defense, though, i hate being told there's something i can't discuss
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: henchman on January 01, 2006, 11:55:21 pm
I would vote, execpt I've never heard the minutemen.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: henchman on January 02, 2006, 12:01:27 am
telefunky wrote on Wed, 21 December 2005 18:53

Curve Dominant wrote: I noticed you never use bands like Duran Duran or Depeche Mode or New Order as your examples. Out of all the mainstream 80's pop bands
You are obviously not old enough to remember the 80's if you are under the impression that Depeche Mode and New Order were "mainstream 80's pop bands".  They were played on only a few stations in even fewer cities, and the kids in school that liked those kinds of bands were very much on the cutting edge.  I think this is a general misunderstanding of 80's music that is prevalent in 20 somethings today.  Mainstream in the 80's was Phil Collins, Madonna, Michael Jackson, Prince, Asia, Men at Work, Huey Lewis, J. Geils, etc.



I'll back curve up on this one.

I grew up in Europe and New Order Duran Durab, Depeche Mode, Ultravox, Siouxsie and The banshees ans softcell  were  played everyhwere on the radio.

Wang Chung was a flash in the pan.

So, I agree, if you're goign to do a poll, use some real relevcant bands of that era to offset against a (for me) completely unknown band like the Minutem,en.

In wich case bands like New Order, Joy Division, depeche Mode etc, were way more important tha some indie band that those wanting to prove their indie cred, wank off to.

It's like asking "wich tree was the loudest? The one you heard fall, or the one you heard about?".
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Kenny Gioia on January 02, 2006, 12:23:20 am
maxim wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 22:45



bob and i have RESPECTFULLY disagreed on a number of occasions (at least, from my side)


I didn't find your response respectful at all. In fact it was not on the level of something that Bob would ever respond to.

maxim wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 22:45



you're kidding, right?

that's you in the cute picture , isn't it?



Yeah. That's me. I'm still 3 years old. (I know. I know. I act like it.)
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Kenny Gioia on January 02, 2006, 12:33:19 am
electrical wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 22:51



I have a minion? I am Semi Pro? My records suck ass? I am a dickwad?

You are a class act, Kenny Gioia. And restless. You have your own forum to occupy yourself, and you still find time to come over here and tell people their music sucks.

If I had ever heard anything you've done, maybe I could return the compliments. As it sits, you get to wake up tomorrow and be Kenny Gioia for another day, and I get to be me. Good luck with that.


This does not surprise me.

You always struck me as someone with their head so far up their own ass that they didn't know what the rest of the world was up to.

And if I had to work at your day rate, I wouldn't be able to find the time to take a day off listen to anyone else's work either.

Oh. And yes. I do find the time to come over to your dirt pile and defend such Legends as Bob Ohlsson.

If you paid any attention, you would see that this was not an unprovoked attack. But I guess with that pittance you so gladly receive, your spare time is a little more precious than mine.

I can count the amount of important records you've made on one finger. But they were a Legend way before you jumped on board so it's hard to bow to thee who claims to be as neutral as a fuckin' Grace Design mic pre.

That is one more important record than me but I never claim to make important music. Don't take yourself soo seriously. I'd shoot myself before I'd even attempt to make an Important record. Puleeese.

And of course. I do get to wake up and be Kenny Gioia tomorrow. I'm sorry that you're not soo lucky.

See ya.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Kenny Gioia on January 02, 2006, 12:38:32 am
maxim wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 23:01

steve wrote:

btw, i do apologise for the dig i had at bob's forum, i feel i may have stooped to kenny's level


That's pretty damn amazing. You've stooped to my level before I even came here. Nice one.

maxim wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 23:01

in my defense, though, i hate being told there's something i can't discuss


Don't defend yourself after apologizing. It kind of takes away the meaning.

There is definitely a more creative way to discuss your belief that stealing money out of my pocket makes sense for you rather than attacking Bob Ohlsson.

For instance. Start a new thread.

I apologize for letting you know what I think of you. But in my defense, you are a scumbag.


Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: maxim on January 02, 2006, 12:42:10 am
kenny g wrote:

"Oh. And yes. I do find the time to come over to your dirt pile and defend such Legends as Bob Ohlsson.

If you paid any attention, you would see that this was not an unprovoked attack."

damn right, it was provoked

bob said that he did not consider music art, and made some smart/ing remark, hiding behind his ex-wife's skirt about getting paid for being a performing monkey

i consider that as a provocation, and that statement as a bitter rant, but, unfortunately, she is not here to defend her outrageous stance

perhaps, i should have kept my senses about me, but the xmas spirit gets us all

it's all an intellectual discussion, after all

even kenny g and johhny b are allowed to post

Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Tidewater on January 02, 2006, 12:48:11 am
Kenny Gioia wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 00:33


You always struck me as someone with their head so far up their own ass that they didn't know what the rest of the world was up to.




Are you talking to me? I thought you were talking to me, because I really don't give a fuck what the rest of the World is up to.

I don't come here to get ideas, I come here to share experiences, and compare notes. (and laugh, a bunch)

I see another message in between the lines of the one you wrote. I don't think you'd have meant to write it. Irony.

I guess I have gone from contentious prick, to minion.

M
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: maxim on January 02, 2006, 12:52:55 am
miles wrote:

"I don't come here to get ideas..."

admit it, you've been taking notes on johhny b's theorems
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Tidewater on January 02, 2006, 12:57:33 am
In my mind, Johnny B. *is* a theory of theorhetorical alchemy.


M
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: electrical on January 02, 2006, 01:01:09 am
Kenny Gioia wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 00:33


This does not surprise me.

You always struck me as someone with their head so far up their own ass that they didn't know what the rest of the world was up to.

"Someone" is a singular noun. You can tell because it has the word "one" in it. That means it's singular. "They" is a plural pronoun, as are all its forms. You can't use one in the subject and another in the predicate like that. Try to keep up with the 10-year-olds, Ken. I don't wnat everyone thinking we're a bunch of illiterates over here in the dirt pile.

Quote:

Oh. And yes. I do find the time to come over to your dirt pile and defend such Legends as Bob Ohlsson.

I don't recall anyone mentioning Bob. I like him fine. Smart fellow. Not prone to belittling others. He is worthy of emulation.

Quote:

If you paid any attention, you would see that this was not an unprovoked attack. But I guess with that pittance (day rate) you so gladly receive, your spare time is a little more precious than mine.

When did I provoke you, fuckstick? And what the fuck does it matter to anyone but my clients how much I charge them? Specifically, why do you care?
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: maxim on January 02, 2006, 01:13:41 am
miles wrote:

"In my mind, Johnny B. *is* a theory of theorhetorical alchemy."

"people out there turning music into gold"
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Kenny Gioia on January 02, 2006, 01:14:02 am
electrical wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 01:01

Kenny Gioia wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 00:33


This does not surprise me.

You always struck me as someone with their head so far up their own ass that they didn't know what the rest of the world was up to.

"Someone" is a singular noun. You can tell because it has the word "one" in it. That means it's singular. "They" is a plural pronoun, as are all its forms. You can't use one in the subject and another in the predicate like that. Try to keep up with the 10-year-olds, Ken. I don't wnat everyone thinking we're a bunch of illiterates over here in the dirt pile.


Perhaps you're new to Internet forums. It is common knowledge that one only attacks other's grammar when one has run out of ideas or points.

By the way, what's a "wnat".

electrical wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 01:01

Kenny Gioia wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 00:33

Oh. And yes. I do find the time to come over to your dirt pile and defend such Legends as Bob Ohlsson.

I don't recall anyone mentioning Bob. I like him fine. Smart fellow. Not prone to belittling others. He is worthy of emulation.


Than re-read the thread. I was attacking Maxim. You jumped in with your dick waving in the air not realizing that the girls had already left the orgy.

electrical wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 01:01

Kenny Gioia wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 00:33

If you paid any attention, you would see that this was not an unprovoked attack. But I guess with that pittance (day rate) you so gladly receive, your spare time is a little more precious than mine.

When did I provoke you, fuckstick? And what the fuck does it matter to anyone but my clients how much I charge them? Specifically, why do you care?


"You" didn't provoke me. Maxim provoked Bob. Am I movin' too fast for ya'?

And then you provoked me when you called me a Dick, Dick.

Do you often jump in the middle of two strangers and start throwing punches at one of them?

Maybe if you starting taking points on records the way the rest of us do, you wouldn't need to take a part time job as an over zealous chest protruding club bouncer.

Happy New Year.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: electrical on January 02, 2006, 01:19:45 am
Kenny Gioia wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 01:14


Maybe if you starting taking points on records the way the rest of us do, you wouldn't need to take a part time job as an over zealous chest protruding club bouncer.

You have just blown my mind.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Kenny Gioia on January 02, 2006, 01:24:24 am
And Print!!!!!

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/hazellr/cb/4.jpg
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Ron Steele on January 02, 2006, 01:55:26 am
Kenny,


I always thought you had the potential to be a dick on occasion,


but now it's..................


"plain as day" ..........


that not only our you a big dick, but your also a jag-off.

Is that how Bob O. would really want you to defend him?

Acting like such a dick head?

Steve, I think you should make Kenny your first official banning for being such a rude dick head.

It doesn't seem like he will become less of dick, but it seems like his dick will certainly become over inflated to the point of no end.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Curve Dominant on January 02, 2006, 02:36:45 am
Kenny Gioia wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 06:14

electrical wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 01:01

Kenny Gioia wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 00:33


This does not surprise me.

You always struck me as someone with their head so far up their own ass that they didn't know what the rest of the world was up to.

"Someone" is a singular noun. You can tell because it has the word "one" in it. That means it's singular. "They" is a plural pronoun, as are all its forms. You can't use one in the subject and another in the predicate like that. Try to keep up with the 10-year-olds, Ken. I don't wnat everyone thinking we're a bunch of illiterates over here in the dirt pile.


Perhaps you're new to Internet forums. It is common knowledge that one only attacks other's grammar when one has run out of ideas or points.

By the way, what's a "wnat".

electrical wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 01:01

Kenny Gioia wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 00:33

Oh. And yes. I do find the time to come over to your dirt pile and defend such Legends as Bob Ohlsson.

I don't recall anyone mentioning Bob. I like him fine. Smart fellow. Not prone to belittling others. He is worthy of emulation.


Than re-read the thread. I was attacking Maxim. You jumped in with your dick waving in the air not realizing that the girls had already left the orgy.

electrical wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 01:01

Kenny Gioia wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 00:33

If you paid any attention, you would see that this was not an unprovoked attack. But I guess with that pittance (day rate) you so gladly receive, your spare time is a little more precious than mine.

When did I provoke you, fuckstick? And what the fuck does it matter to anyone but my clients how much I charge them? Specifically, why do you care?


"You" didn't provoke me. Maxim provoked Bob. Am I movin' too fast for ya'?

And then you provoked me when you called me a Dick, Dick.

Do you often jump in the middle of two strangers and start throwing punches at one of them?

Maybe if you starting taking points on records the way the rest of us do, you wouldn't need to take a part time job as an over zealous chest protruding club bouncer.

Happy New Year.



Gee, what a nice New Year's treat this is, seeing my two most favorite audio genius heroes getting along so nicely.

You guys are SUCH an inspiration for newbies like me.

Don't go changing, please.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: originalrecorderman on January 02, 2006, 02:55:47 am
doo-doo-doo-doo-doo * "twilight zone" style"

....is this the old record pit???  Rolling Eyes
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: bbkong on January 02, 2006, 03:31:19 am
I never post over here, but do read a lot.

I only post now to say:

LMAO.



In the spirit of keeping on topic, I gotta disagree with Bob on music not being an art. Maybe recording it isn't, but...that's a digressive topic.

Much like the thread.





Oh, and for the record, the 'Marsh Pit' is a pretty friendly place unless someone pops up with self inflated puffery and/or complete lunacy.

Then ya gets what you pay for.

No whining.



Alright, back to our regularly scheduled penis exhibition.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: originalrecorderman on January 02, 2006, 03:52:14 am
see...I KNEW it was... Very Happy
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Slipperman on January 02, 2006, 05:00:52 am
What a fucking SHIT-STORM.

This is classic.

Ahh me.

Makin' friends on de internot!

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!

LMFBO.

Dyin' over here.

SM.



Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: maxim on January 02, 2006, 06:21:42 am
i think it's time you guys took little kenny back to the marsh pit, where he belongs

he's a little bit cranky

either tired or hungry, i can't tell
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: dwoz on January 02, 2006, 10:23:46 am
electrical wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 11:01

Kenny Gioia wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 00:33


This does not surprise me.

You always struck me as someone with their head so far up their own ass that they didn't know what the rest of the world was up to.

"Someone" is a singular noun. You can tell because it has the word "one" in it. That means it's singular. "They" is a plural pronoun, as are all its forms.


Except when its a neutered possessive adjective.

"...their"  here attaches to the FOLLOWING phrase "head up their own ass", NOT to the preceding phrase "someone".

In this usage, Kenneth has indicated a member ("someone") of a class of persons ("they who have their head up their own ass").  The possessive adjective "their" attaches to (modifes) the class, not the member.

If he had used "who has" instead of "with", you'd be spot-on.  

But that word "with" changes everything.  It indicates a joining between two subjects ("someone", and "they who have their heads up their own ass").  If the second subject had been third person singular (i.e. "one's head so far up one's ass", or a gender-specific version of that same..."his head so far up his ass"), then the word "with" would indicate that the second subject is a characteristic of the first subject, rather than the entirely different result when the second subject is a third person plural, where the effect is to indicate a membership in a characteristic class.


Strictly speaking, not the most proper of forms he could have possibly selected, but strictly speaking, not entirely incorrect.

In fact, the way Kenneth has phrased it, seems to add a vitriolic smear to the otherwise rather basic invective in the second subject, by indicating that far from being unique, the target of the insult is instead a "typical" or "mundane" or "common" variety of subject.

hope this helps.

BTW, I'm mad a Kenny right now, because he never skypes or IMs, and that's just simply not nice.

respectfully,


dwoz
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Aardvark on January 02, 2006, 10:56:05 am
Curve Dominant wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 02:36

Gee, what a nice New Year's treat this is, seeing my two most favorite audio genius heroes getting along so nicely.

You guys are SUCH an inspiration for newbies like me.

Don't go changing, please.




Here's an idea Curve...How about you shut the fuck up and go plug a couple of D.I.'s into each other!

These two "audio genius heroes" make records for a living and have for years, they do not flip burgers and toss salads nor do they cruise cooking forums on the net looking to make trouble over which Hobart model is the better dishwasher.

Please return to your regular scheduled idiocy behind the grill and leave the audio discussions for those who actually work in audio. Recording halfwits on your Digi 001 in between split shifts at the local taco stand does not qualify.


Cheers, and very best of the New Year!!
Aardvark
Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil  Rolling Eyes  Laughing
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Ron Steele on January 02, 2006, 11:30:07 am
Well what do we have here?

Dwoz defending Kenny, who was doing a poor job of defending Bob while lacking class, to which SA classified him as a dick wad for clear and obvious reasons that the maid would be able to tell the difference plain as day, and we have aardvark getting in a hissy fit because curve chimed in to say that  he is getting a big kick out watching 2 mods he dislikes while slipperman and bbkong sit back dying from laughter while they read this.

Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Kenny Gioia on January 02, 2006, 11:47:27 am
Ron Steele wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 01:55

Kenny,


I always thought you had the potential to be a dick on occasion,


but now it's..................


"plain as day" ..........


that not only our you a big dick, but your also a jag-off.

Is that how Bob O. would really want you to defend him?

Acting like such a dick head?

Steve, I think you should make Kenny your first official banning for being such a rude dick head.

It doesn't seem like he will become less of dick, but it seems like his dick will certainly become over inflated to the point of no end.



You fuckin' toole.

Of course Bob wouldn't respond in this manner.

If he did, I wouldn't have to jump in. I'm his buffer.

It is not in his best interest to sink to the level of an Internet Underachiever.

I could give two dead chickens what anybody thinks about me.

And since when is being a Jag Off worse than being a Dick.

You gotta do better than that you Rusty Trombone Mouthpiece.

Oh and yeah, my dick gets hugely over-inflated when I'm matched up against a group of adolescent green can't get my rod out of my pants quick enuff punks with matching outfits.

And NO. Steve will not be banning me anytime soon. Both sides have treaty agreement in which Steve has already crossed the line.

If anything, I can get him dis-REPed.

Peace
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Kenny Gioia on January 02, 2006, 11:49:24 am
Eric Greedy wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 02:55

doo-doo-doo-doo-doo * "twilight zone" style"

....is this the old record pit???  Rolling Eyes


Yee act like pit? Yee get pit!!!

This bus goes all the way back!!!
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Tidewater on January 02, 2006, 11:51:37 am
Aardvark wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 10:56


These two "audio genius heroes" make records for a living and have for years...

Cheers, and very best of the New Year!!
Aardvark




It's hard not to pile on Kenny, what a fucking asshole.

Glad I don't have to work with him. If given a choice, I'd rather flip burgers, or dub mp3s thru a Digi 001.

How.. artful.


M
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Kenny Gioia on January 02, 2006, 11:51:41 am
maxim wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 06:21

i think it's time you guys took little kenny back to the marsh pit, where he belongs

he's a little bit cranky

either tired or hungry, i can't tell



When one has completely run out of ammo.....

Tis best to withdraw.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Kenny Gioia on January 02, 2006, 12:02:56 pm
DivideByZero wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 11:51



It's hard not to pile on Kenny, what a fucking asshole.


Ahhh. A pile on. Bring it on Albini minion #3. Did you even get a name tag.

DivideByZero wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 11:51



Glad I don't have to work with him. If given a choice, I'd rather flip burgers, or dub mp3s thru a Digi 001.

How.. artful.

M


No penis container, artists get to work with me. Nobody has to.

But you do have to keep flipping those burgers. Or is that Tossing the salad?

I forget.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: The Octopus on January 02, 2006, 12:12:26 pm
Thread of the Year: 2006.

NOT CRAP.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Tidewater on January 02, 2006, 12:22:19 pm
Kenny,

Make your khakis into cut-offs, and swim in raw sewage, you'll blend in just fine there.


M
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Ron Steele on January 02, 2006, 12:48:33 pm
Kenny Gioia wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 11:47

Ron Steele wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 01:55

Kenny,


I always thought you had the potential to be a dick on occasion,


but now it's..................


"plain as day" ..........


that not only our you a big dick, but your also a jag-off.

Is that how Bob O. would really want you to defend him?

Acting like such a dick head?

Steve, I think you should make Kenny your first official banning for being such a rude dick head.

It doesn't seem like he will become less of dick, but it seems like his dick will certainly become over inflated to the point of no end.



You fuckin' toole.

Of course Bob wouldn't respond in this manner.

If he did, I wouldn't have to jump in. I'm his buffer.

It is not in his best interest to sink to the level of an Internet Underachiever.

I could give two dead chickens what anybody thinks about me.

And since when is being a Jag Off worse than being a Dick.

You gotta do better than that you Rusty Trombone Mouthpiece.

Oh and yeah, my dick gets hugely over-inflated when I'm matched up against a group of adolescent green can't get my rod out of my pants quick enuff punks with matching outfits.

And NO. Steve will not be banning me anytime soon. Both sides have treaty agreement in which Steve has already crossed the line.

If anything, I can get him dis-REPed.

Peace




Kenny are your ratings down in the marsh?

Are you feeling more important then you really are?

Hmm.. let's see here.

If prosoundweb had to pick between Kenny and SA...which would it be?

Or,

who is more important,


Kenny. Bob O's "buffer",


or SA?

This could be controversial for about 10ms.

Come on Kenny, why don't you try to get SA dis-REPed. Show us all the power you possess.

I'd love to hear what Brad and Fletcher's response would be to Kenny asking to have SA fired as a mod.

Good luck with that, and let us all know how it works out.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: dikledoux on January 02, 2006, 01:42:36 pm
Ummmm... about that whang-kung versus mothra thing...  Is it just me or do those monsters look like they're made of rubber?

dik
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: henchman on January 02, 2006, 01:44:37 pm
Wow, Kenny's really gone off the deep end.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: electrical on January 02, 2006, 02:00:12 pm
dwoz wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 10:23

electrical wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 11:01

Kenny Gioia wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 00:33


This does not surprise me.

You always struck me as someone with their head so far up their own ass that they didn't know what the rest of the world was up to.

"Someone" is a singular noun. You can tell because it has the word "one" in it. That means it's singular. "They" is a plural pronoun, as are all its forms.


Except when its a neutered possessive adjective.

"...their"  here attaches to the FOLLOWING phrase "head up their own ass", NOT to the preceding phrase "someone".

Which is an impossible phrase, grammatically, unless there is someone who, by himself is a group, but this group also only has one ass.

Quote:

In this usage, Kenneth has indicated a member ("someone") of a class of persons ("they who have their head up their own ass").  The possessive adjective "their" attaches to (modifes) the class, not the member.

He only uses the singular construction, except for the mis-use of "they" and "their." If he had said, "someone, one of those with their heads so far up their own asses that they..." He'd be okay. As it is, he's speaking gibberish.

Quote:

If he had used "who has" instead of "with", you'd be spot-on.  

But that word "with" changes everything.  It indicates a joining between two subjects ("someone", and "they who have their heads up their own ass").  If the second subject had been third person singular (i.e. "one's head so far up one's ass", or a gender-specific version of that same..."his head so far up his ass"), then the word "with" would indicate that the second subject is a characteristic of the first subject, rather than the entirely different result when the second subject is a third person plural, where the effect is to indicate a membership in a characteristic class.

See, he never mentions the class. He simply mis-uses his pronouns.

Quote:

Strictly speaking, not the most proper of forms he could have possibly selected, but strictly speaking, not entirely incorrect.

Strictly speaking, it would be red-pencilled in a fifth-grade book report. It's gibberish.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: pounce on January 02, 2006, 02:05:05 pm
does this happen every time wang chung and the minutemen are mentioned together?

silly poll, how are we supposed to qualify "important"? this is a question of how you define important more than anything else. i liked both of those bands well enough for entirely different reasons.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: nobby on January 02, 2006, 02:07:34 pm
Bob Olhsson wrote on Sun, 25 December 2005 19:18

To quote my first wife, an exceptionally talented sculptor, music is NOT art no matter how hard the backstage-pass/groupie seeking pop music reviewers try to spin it! I think it's a lot more like sports than like art because it's all about individual and team performance.

The only thing anybody can expect to get paid for is entertainment value. That depends on communication, accessibility and having something to say that people find engaging.


Bob, I agree with you most of the time, but I respectfully disagree on this one. If your ex had said that Madonna, Creed, or other examples of trite pop too numerous to count, let alone mention aren't art, I'd tend to agree, but if she said music isn't art, meaning all music, she's wrong.

And it isn't just about performance, it's about composition.


Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: electrical on January 02, 2006, 02:14:28 pm
Kenny Gioia wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 11:47


And NO. Steve will not be banning me anytime soon. Both sides have treaty agreement in which Steve has already crossed the line.

If anything, I can get him dis-REPed.

I don't know what you think I did to you, but if it bugs you enough  to "dis-REP" me, then take a fucking swing. This is clearly a place of pride for you, and it might be interesting to see if you're really such a big shot here, since I'm unfamiliar with your work and reputation out in the world.

Wade on in motherfucker. Get me "dis-REP"ed.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: peyemp on January 02, 2006, 02:26:23 pm
Kenny Gioia wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 03:31


Happy New Year Semi Pro Day Rate Mother Fucka!!!!!



Oh wait,, I forgot that SA's Grammy qualified him as "semi-pro"  Laughing  

I've found by experience that a solid day-rate profoundly stomps project rates (after having been stiffed by several major labels).  It seems Kenny has racked-up a few credits and now must preach 'The Gospel of Kenny' to straighten-out us 'cretins' who, in our ignorance, do not share his aesthetic or agree with his 'business savvy'...  So therefore we must be punished...

All hail our new master, Kenny.   Rolling Eyes
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Tidewater on January 02, 2006, 02:28:14 pm
Someone call a plummer, the Marsh is leaking..

AGAIN


M
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: nobby on January 02, 2006, 02:31:08 pm
DivideByZero wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 14:28

Someone call a plummer, the Marsh is leaking..



Marsh? This is more like the rec pit Very Happy

Tally Ho Very Happy



Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: jordancgeiger on January 02, 2006, 02:42:11 pm
what are kenny's credits by the way?  
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Ron Steele on January 02, 2006, 02:52:39 pm
jordancgeiger wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 14:42

what are kenny's credits by the way?  


I think he has a drum loop CD for sale that you can buy for $30.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Tidewater on January 02, 2006, 02:58:29 pm
Yeah, and admittedly, his loops are easier to use than the 'Albini Loopaganza' set, that comes on a set of twenty-nine 2" reels.


M
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: henchman on January 02, 2006, 03:02:36 pm
jordancgeiger wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 11:42

what are kenny's credits by the way?  



Aaron Carter.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: peyemp on January 02, 2006, 03:04:47 pm
This shouldn't be a showdown about credits...

IIRC, Kenny has worked with; Aaron Carter, Mandy Moore, and he had a hand in some stuff from Hall and Oates.

And in Steve's corner, we have;
Big Black and Shellac, Jesus Lizard, The Pixies, Jon Spencer Blues Explosion, Nirvana, PJ Harvey, Shadowy Men on a Shadowy Planet, Jimmy Page/Robert Plant, Man or Astro-man, Tortoise, The Auteurs, Urge Overkill, Low, Guided by Voices, Chevelle, Nina Nastasia, Pigface, Nine Inch Nails, Mogwai, The Breeders, and many others...

Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: kraster on January 02, 2006, 03:18:42 pm
BEST THREAD EVER! Laughing
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: John Ivan on January 02, 2006, 03:25:32 pm
peyemp wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 15:04

This shouldn't be a showdown about credits...

IIRC, Kenny has worked with; Aaron Carter, Mandy Moore, and he had a hand in some stuff from Hall and Oates.

And in Steve's corner, we have;
Big Black and Shellac, Jesus Lizard, The Pixies, Jon Spencer Blues Explosion, Nirvana, PJ Harvey, Shadowy Men on a Shadowy Planet, Jimmy Page/Robert Plant, Man or Astro-man, Tortoise, The Auteurs, Urge Overkill, Low, Guided by Voices, Chevelle, Nina Nastasia, Pigface, Nine Inch Nails, Mogwai, The Breeders, and many others...





HA!!  Well, I've recorded the most important person in the BIZ,,,,,,,,,,  ME!!!  Of course,, none of you have ever heard it but,, ummmm  OK, I'll put my cloths back on now,,, Sorry..

Ivan..............................
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Skwaidu on January 02, 2006, 03:58:00 pm
I leaked out of the MARSH too, just to express my Engioiament over the LMFBO-ness of this thread... Instant classics! Laughing
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: peyemp on January 02, 2006, 03:58:33 pm
I guess Kenny G is also a songwriter;

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/a/angela-ammons/7922.html
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Ron Steele on January 02, 2006, 04:09:42 pm
peyemp wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 15:58

I guess Kenny G is also a songwriter;

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/a/angela-ammons/7922.html



So Kenny's a big girl and not a big dick?

Don't you think the lyric "I'm a big dick" would've had more potential, where artistic vision is concerned?

Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Bernardo on January 02, 2006, 04:09:43 pm
Now here
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: pounce on January 02, 2006, 04:39:09 pm
maybe the minutemen and wang chung are also big dicks.



on topic again, who was more important - wang chung or ron steele.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Fibes on January 02, 2006, 04:41:25 pm
Not to derail the dick wagging but...

The Minutemen movie is hilarious, especially the albion of the Double Nickel inspiration, uh influence, uh guitar tone, uh the demonstration of how to uh, nevermind.

The Hampton Grease band, Television, The Stooges, MC5, Rocket from the Tombs, Sonic Youth, Can, Patty Smith, X, The Swimming pool Qs, The Del Fuegos, the Neighborhoods and that band that did the 21 consecutive versions of Truckin' at the Living Room in providence had way more influence (+ or -) on me than anything on early eMpTV.

It's a societal thing.

A geographical difference between the heart/soul and the mind/wallet.  



Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Ron Steele on January 02, 2006, 05:11:40 pm
pounce wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 16:39

maybe the minutemen and wang chung are also big dicks.



on topic again, who was more important - wang chung or ron steele.


So let me get this straight,

Kenny decides to make an ass out of himself, and Steve calls him a dick for doing so, and that makes wang chung more important then me?

No way.


Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Curve Dominant on January 02, 2006, 05:26:14 pm
You guys are too harsh on Kenny. He did some great work with Lite Funky Ones. Those guys were way ahead of their time.

I gotta say though, if Albini ended up getting banned from REP before I did, I'd be really surprised.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: dwoz on January 02, 2006, 05:34:58 pm
electrical wrote on Tue, 03 January 2006 00:00

dwoz wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 10:23

electrical wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 11:01

Kenny Gioia wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 00:33


This does not surprise me.

You always struck me as someone with their head so far up their own ass that they didn't know what the rest of the world was up to.

"Someone" is a singular noun. You can tell because it has the word "one" in it. That means it's singular. "They" is a plural pronoun, as are all its forms.


Except when its a neutered possessive adjective.

"...their"  here attaches to the FOLLOWING phrase "head up their own ass", NOT to the preceding phrase "someone".

Which is an impossible phrase, grammatically, unless there is someone who, by himself is a group, but this group also only has one ass.



That would be quite so, but for the distinction between a "class" of subjects, and a "group" of subjects.  If we were talking about a self=identifying group, we'd certainly say that they had their (collective) heads up their (collective) asses.  Such a statement would aptly describe, say, the Illinois Nazi Party.  But here we're not talking about a cohesive, self-identifying group, but simply a collection of like entities.  Thus, the singular form of the secondary subjects ("head" and "ass").

A very subtle and interesting study in the nuances of sentence construction.  Bravo, Kenny.  well-spake!

Quote:


Quote:

In this usage, Kenneth has indicated a member ("someone") of a class of persons ("they who have their head up their own ass").  The possessive adjective "their" attaches to (modifes) the class, not the member.

He only uses the singular construction, except for the mis-use of "they" and "their." If he had said, "someone, one of those with their heads so far up their own asses that they..." He'd be okay. As it is, he's speaking gibberish.

Quote:

If he had used "who has" instead of "with", you'd be spot-on.  

But that word "with" changes everything.  It indicates a joining between two subjects ("someone", and "they who have their heads up their own ass").  If the second subject had been third person singular (i.e. "one's head so far up one's ass", or a gender-specific version of that same..."his head so far up his ass"), then the word "with" would indicate that the second subject is a characteristic of the first subject, rather than the entirely different result when the second subject is a third person plural, where the effect is to indicate a membership in a characteristic class.

See, he never mentions the class. He simply mis-uses his pronouns.




to me, that's the interesting part.  Its inferred.  An excellent example of how economy of construction can be achieved by eliminating the tangential or parenthetical references, yet still maintain clear meaning.

Quote:


Quote:

Strictly speaking, not the most proper of forms he could have possibly selected, but strictly speaking, not entirely incorrect.

Strictly speaking, it would be red-pencilled in a fifth-grade book report. It's gibberish.


the interesting thing about this, is that OF COURSE he'd be red-pencilled in fifth grade.  Its a subtle and complex construction that would be far beyond a fifth-grader's ken.

An analogy comes to mind here.  Throughout about 7 years of spanish classes, it was an abolute rule that the adjective followed the noun. (i.e. "mierda olorosa").  However, my world was turned on its ear when I discovered in college spanish that a declarative adjective COULD preceed the noun, and in fact had special meaning in that configuration.

go figure!


grammar ROCKS!!!!!

hope this helps.


dwoz




Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Tidewater on January 02, 2006, 06:00:26 pm
Bernardo wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 16:09

Now here
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Ron Steele on January 02, 2006, 06:03:55 pm
Dwoz,

I think Steve was very "spot on" regarding Kenny's bad grammar.

Here is an example of how a more legitimate and qualified statement similar to Kenny's attempt at proper grammar should read:

"Dwoz, you always struck me as SOMEBODY with YOUR head so far up YOUR own ass that YOU WOULDN'T know what the rest of the world was up to."


When written properly there is nothing inessential or superfluous left out.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: peyemp on January 02, 2006, 06:05:04 pm
Ron Steele wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 22:11

pounce wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 16:39


So let me get this straight,
Kenny decides to make an ass out of himself, and Steve calls him a dick for doing so, and that makes wang chung more important then me?




Who is more important;  Kenny or God ?  From Kenny's posts, it seems he has already cast his vote...

Kenny I Chapter 12 Verse 6-8 "And I, the Lord Kenny shall strike down ye semi pro heathen with poor grammaticalness.  And yea, the seas shall part and I shall bask in my album points.  And ye shall not speak thy day-rate tongues for 40 days and 40 nights until I un-free thy music."
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Tidewater on January 02, 2006, 06:07:26 pm
I just spoke with God, he told me to stop using his name in vain.

He also said the Minutemen.


M
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Kenny Gioia on January 02, 2006, 06:41:02 pm
A review for the still sane and those without an Albinian brown nose. (from lapping a middle of the road - compression hating - recording engineer's ass who truly believes he is important.) Rolling Eyes

Side note:

If the world was the size of a cue ball, it would be smoother than one.

Point = We are not important. Get real.


Back to the Summary.

Someone attacked Bob Ohlsson by telling him loudly in all caps. MUSIC IS FREE. A clear insult.

I told that prick that he was an ass.

Some, new to the moderating world, moderator called me a DICK.

I, of course, said nothing directly to this Semen Depository  but as a leader of the douche cunts he felt the ridiculous need to defend one of them.

Then the rest of his fag fraternity decide to continue attacking me, checking my resume and accusing me of thinking I am a God.

I have never said anything in this thread about how great "I" am. I did mention that I have talent but that isn't so rare.

If this is how you treat someone who defends a real "Legend" I pity you.

The Albinians shall be defeated. And quicker than you think.


Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Tidewater on January 02, 2006, 06:50:47 pm
Kenny, if it's any consolation, I did laugh out loud when you pinned Steve for grammer flames, then you flamed his typo.

Even dicks can be funny, ever see Kentucky Fried Movie?


M
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Ron Steele on January 02, 2006, 06:59:29 pm
Kenny, are you for real?

You show up here throwing around 5th grade insults at Maxim because he said "music is free". There was a difference of opinion, not an exchange of insults.

So what.

No where did Maxim say ,

"music is free" Bob,

and by the way, your an ass.

Take your BS back to your own forum.

Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: bbkong on January 02, 2006, 07:08:59 pm
Would this be a bad time to bring up my upcoming 6-DVD boxed set of  Hammond samples?

Yessirree, every note, every drawbar position, with and without Leslie on slow and high.

Quarter notes, half notes and hole.


PM me to place an order.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: henchman on January 02, 2006, 07:10:25 pm
Kenny Gioia wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 15:41


Someone attacked Bob Ohlsson by telling him loudly in all caps. MUSIC IS FREE. A clear insult.



I think proclaiming that music isn't art is a bigger insult.

Now wether I agree with the statement Bob made or not, belittleing someones calling in life, is a huge insult.

I am insulted when I see musicians talking about engineers/mixers referring to them as simple knob twiddlers. And allthough some people do only that, there are people who can have a huge impact on amix by applying their "Art" to it.

And , music IS free.
I can turn on the radio and enjoy music for FREE all day long if I want.

BTW, PT's still sucks DonkeyBalls.  Very Happy

(I had to get that one in. )
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: peyemp on January 02, 2006, 07:14:29 pm
Kenny Gioia wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 23:41

I have never said anything in this thread about how great "I" am.




Praise be to the Lord Kenny G.  

"I do find the time to come over to your dirt pile"
"Don't FUCK with me dickwad"
"your records suck ass"
"Semi Pro"
"you're one of those non-confrontational pussies"
"a pompous little cretin like yourself"
"And of course. I do get to wake up and be Kenny Gioia tomorrow. I'm sorry that you're not soo lucky."
"that pittance you so gladly receive"
"I can count the amount of important records you've made on one finger"

then you blessed us unworthy sinners with;

"Your music is free because it is worthless.
Some of us were blessed with talent."


You're right, Lord Kenny... you do not come off as holier than thou, oh Lord who reigneth forever...

As to the "bow before Bob O. or die" routine, Bob's former boss was my former boss.  He and I have both worked with Brian Holland, Mary Wilson, and alot of the same people in the same studio.  

So why should I be lumped in as an "an Albinian brown nose" just because I realize you are the Almighty Lord Kenny Gioia ?
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Curve Dominant on January 02, 2006, 07:14:30 pm
Kenny Gioia wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 23:41

A review for the still sane and those without an Albinian brown nose. (from lapping a middle of the road - compression hating - recording engineer's ass who truly believes he is important.) Rolling Eyes

Side note:

If the world was the size of a cue ball, it would be smoother than one.

Point = We are not important. Get real.


Back to the Summary.

Someone attacked Bob Ohlsson by telling him loudly in all caps. MUSIC IS FREE. A clear insult.

I told that prick that he was an ass.

Some, new to the moderating world, moderator called me a DICK.

I, of course, said nothing directly to this Semen Depository  but as a leader of the douche cunts he felt the ridiculous need to defend one of them.

Then the rest of his fag fraternity decide to continue attacking me, checking my resume and accusing me of thinking I am a God.

I have never said anything in this thread about how great "I" am. I did mention that I have talent but that isn't so rare.

If this is how you treat someone who defends a real "Legend" I pity you.

The Albinians shall be defeated. And quicker than you think.


Kenny,

It's OK for you to like Wang Chung. Nobody here is judging you for that.

Clearly this thread and this forum and Mr. Albini's presence has offended your taste in music. We can all look at your discography and see that plain as day.

But, it's ok. YOU'RE ok. So what if you happen to like cheesy, shallow, manufactured, Beat Detective'd, Autotuned crap. Nobody here is JUDGING you for that, Kenny.

So please chill, before I whip out my spatula and smack you in the brain.

PS: When is the Bad Mood Mike CD ever going to come out??
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: peyemp on January 02, 2006, 07:25:21 pm
Kenny Gioia wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 23:41


The Albinians shall be defeated. And quicker than you think.




According to Chapter 19, verse 4 in your bible, "and thou day-rate semi-pros shall atone thy sins and worthless music for a period of 7 days and 7 nights".  

So you mean sooner than that ?
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: dwoz on January 02, 2006, 07:43:54 pm
henchman wrote on Tue, 03 January 2006 05:10



Now wether ...



Just for perspective, since I'm on a "grammar kick" in this thread...a wether is actually a castrated goat.

perhaps that makes as much sense as what you intended to post!

hope this helps.


dwoz
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: henchman on January 02, 2006, 07:46:48 pm
dwoz wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 16:43

henchman wrote on Tue, 03 January 2006 05:10



Now wether ...



Just for perspective, since I'm on a "grammar kick" in this thread...a wether is actually a castrated goat.

perhaps that makes as much sense as what you intended to post!

hope this helps.


dwoz




I  think, giving where this thread  has gone, wether is quite appropriate.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: maxim on January 02, 2006, 07:55:19 pm
dear kenny,

please, take your clever insults back to the marsh pit, where you kindy pals can all have a good snigger

somehow, i doubt bob o would enjoy having you as a 'buffer' or a bodyguard, and if i were him, your psychofancy (coupled with your homophobic/homosexual obsession) would make me nervous
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: man-O-Love on January 02, 2006, 07:58:38 pm
electrical wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 22:51

...
You are a class act, Kenny Gioia. And restless. You have your own forum to occupy yourself, and you still find time to come over here and tell people their music sucks.

If I had ever heard anything you've done, maybe I could return the compliments. As it sits, you get to wake up tomorrow and be Kenny Gioia for another day, and I get to be me. Good luck with that.


As a gay horse, I find your remarks deeply offensive....

But also strangely titilating.  Shocked
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Curve Dominant on January 02, 2006, 07:59:06 pm
Psychofancy?
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: man-O-Love on January 02, 2006, 07:59:51 pm
maxim wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 19:55

...(coupled with your homophobic/homosexual obsession) would make me nervous


You watch your tongue!
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: pounce on January 02, 2006, 08:01:13 pm
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/gay16.jpg
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Kenny Gioia on January 02, 2006, 08:06:41 pm
Ron Steele wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 18:59

Kenny, are you for real?

You show up here throwing around 5th grade insults at Maxim because he said "music is free". There was a difference of opinion, not an exchange of insults.


5th grade? Come on Ronnie. Those are at least Junior High insults. I'm saving my high school ones for the big attack.

So what.

Ron Steele wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 18:59

No where did Maxim say ,

"music is free" Bob,


Yes he did. It was absolutely a slap in the face. It's not even arguable. It's Bob's Mantra for his forum.

I would equate it to me saying "Hey Steve. Music needs to sound like a beer commercial."


Ron Steele wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 18:59


and by the way, your an ass.


OK. So I guess in the spirit of this most holy forum and it's Albinian logic, I must now call you a DICK.

You're a DICK. Or should I say "your" a dick.

I don't want to be breaking any Albinian laws or anything.

Ron Steele wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 18:59



Take your BS back to your own forum.




BS?    BS?    BS?

Those 'em fighting words!!!!!!
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Aardvark on January 02, 2006, 08:07:29 pm
peyemp wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 19:14

...Praise be to the Lord Kenny G...because I realize you are the Almighty Lord Kenny Gioia ?



Kenny is not the Lord but like the Lord he works in mysterious ways. As p(r)oof I offer a thread in which Mr. Albini has a grammar discussion with dwoz and conducts himself in a manner that indicates a keen knowledge of the related rules. (I envy him this in no small way) In the same thread dwoz, a reasonably well spoken chap for an American, responds in kind only to be critiqued by none other than Robocop, AKA Ron Steel.


At this point I wondered when the the threshold of surrealism was crossed and how I managed to miss it.


A piss up between Internet mods in a music forum is to be expected now and then and unto itself no distinct moment. To see a situation where one of the least skilled writers in our midst offers a literary lesson to a clever wordsmith is either a sign of the Apocalypse or clear indication this entire thread was a brilliant put on betwixt the main protagonists.

In that I do not see the end of times  on the horizon I am left to conclude the latter.



Cheers,
Aardvark


P.S. On a completely different note...If I am deep-frying potato chips do I need to put them into some boiling oil after after they come out of the deep-fryer to cook them?


Hehehehe
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Kenny Gioia on January 02, 2006, 08:14:04 pm
Curve Dominant wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 19:14


So please chill, before I whip out my spatula and smack you in the brain.


Would that be the pretty pink silicon spatula that comes with the breast awareness Kitchen Aid mixer.

Ahh. See. Maybe you can mix after all. Wink

Curve Dominant wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 19:14

PS: When is the Bad Mood Mike CD ever going to come out??


I believe that that project has long since died.

However he's done a few new songs which are really good.

Check them out here. http://www.myspace.com/richcronin
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Kam Fong as Chin Ho on January 02, 2006, 08:16:56 pm
man-O-Love wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 19:58

electrical wrote on Sun, 01 January 2006 22:51

...
You are a class act, Kenny Gioia. And restless. You have your own forum to occupy yourself, and you still find time to come over here and tell people their music sucks.

If I had ever heard anything you've done, maybe I could return the compliments. As it sits, you get to wake up tomorrow and be Kenny Gioia for another day, and I get to be me. Good luck with that.


As a gay horse, I find your remarks deeply offensive....

But also strangely titilating.  Shocked



You crazy horse!  Half the animal control officers in West Hollywood are looking for you.  I'll put a bur in your saddle!

Talk about ridden and put away wet, if you think your 'stable studio' with an MBOX is any comparison to albini's TDM rig, you are sadly mistaken.  He has forgotten more about ITB mixing than you ever knew!

Anyway, back to my gioia drum CD.  I'm just gonna listen to it all at once and then concentrate on the individual songs.  Its really relaxing with a crunchy groove!
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Kam Fong as Chin Ho on January 02, 2006, 08:21:18 pm
pounce wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 20:01

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/gay16.jpg



Is that a camera trick, or does that guy make mick jagger's quads look muscular?
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Curve Dominant on January 02, 2006, 08:25:21 pm
Aardvark wrote on Tue, 03 January 2006 01:07

If I am deep-frying potato chips do I need to put them into some boiling oil after after they come out of the deep-fryer to cook them?


Since you posess little competence with recording equipment, I would suggest you stay away from the cooking equipment altogether. You will hurt yourself.

PS to Kenny: When is the Amanda Latona CD ever coming out?
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Kenny Gioia on January 02, 2006, 08:24:23 pm
maxim wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 19:55


and if i were him, your psychofancy (coupled with your homophobic/homosexual obsession) would make me nervous


It seems that I have already made you a bit jittery. Like a schoolgirl even?


Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Aardvark on January 02, 2006, 09:23:21 pm
Curve Dominant wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 20:25

Aardvark wrote on Tue, 03 January 2006 01:07

If I am deep-frying potato chips do I need to put them into some boiling oil after after they come out of the deep-fryer to cook them?


Since you posess little competence with recording equipment, I would suggest you stay away from the cooking equipment altogether. You will hurt yourself.





A little touchy there line cook boy?

You didn't answer my question BTW. Maybe there would be a special flavour if I did it that way right? I really meant that as a real question about deep-frying techniques...this is your area of expertise correct? Please advise me as nobody else here besides you is, to my knowledge, is a line cook...NTTAWWT.



Hehehehehe



Cheers,
Aardvark


P.S. If you are going to stay in the cooking business it would behoove you to get your papers. You're not going anywhere else anytime soon so...


Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: bbkong on January 02, 2006, 09:56:32 pm
Curve, are you really a cook?


Could you possibly tell where I can find a reliable source for cases of chicken fried steaks?

I've been patient with Farmer John out here, but their reefer truckers just don't keep anything frozen anymore.



Oh and WangChung and those other goobers aren't a puddle of spit in the river of 20th Century music. Everything they did can be traced back to a Beatles song.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: minister on January 02, 2006, 10:03:33 pm
at least kenny has THIS album to his credit

index.php/fa/2146/0/
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: minister on January 02, 2006, 10:07:08 pm
my liner notes are a little scratched on this one, but i think he engineered, produced and played drums on this one too:

index.php/fa/2147/0/
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: minister on January 02, 2006, 10:08:35 pm
one of kenny's greatist credits is THIS highly acclaimed record:
it was just before "HERE COME THE WARM JETS"

index.php/fa/2148/0/
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: dwoz on January 02, 2006, 10:11:26 pm



I'm totally confused.  Are you talking about "british" chips or "american" chips?


Someone give Oram a call!!!!!




dwoz
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: minister on January 02, 2006, 10:11:27 pm
but to be fair, steve only had a CRAIG CASSETTE to record this one:

index.php/fa/2149/0/
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: maxim on January 02, 2006, 10:14:45 pm
eric v wrote:

"Psychofancy?"

sic

alas
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: minister on January 02, 2006, 10:15:39 pm
but, hey!, let's talk about steve's BIGdrum sound on this record


index.php/fa/2150/0/
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: minister on January 02, 2006, 10:20:50 pm
and i LOVE the NATURAL sound he got on this record:

index.php/fa/2151/0/
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Curve Dominant on January 02, 2006, 10:21:37 pm
bbkong wrote on Tue, 03 January 2006 02:56

Curve, are you really a cook?


Yes, a sauci
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: minister on January 02, 2006, 10:22:16 pm
while i'm still stuck here in the upper midwest working on sheeitte like this

index.php/fa/2152/0/
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: henchman on January 02, 2006, 10:26:34 pm
Curve Dominant wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 19:21

Ahm uh PRODUCE-UH.  HOO-AH!


You don't want to know what I produced this morning.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: minister on January 02, 2006, 10:35:00 pm
i am finishing the mixing on this and hope to send it to mastering next week.  thing is, with all that breathing and wimpering and "natural" sound, i had to close mic it and compress the PISS out of it.
index.php/fa/2153/0/
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Ron Steele on January 02, 2006, 10:35:25 pm
Quote:

At this point I wondered when the the threshold of surrealism was crossed and how I managed to miss it.



Aardvark, your feelings of puzzlement and doubt left on the doorstep of your subconscious, and how it relates to Kenny as the subject matter, could be the workings that lies in your smeary hands. That fantastic imagery alone could have lead you to believe the up and down juxtaposition you are so preoccupied with attemps to express the demonstrable urgency your so lost in.

I hope that helps.

Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Charles Dye on January 02, 2006, 10:47:31 pm
minister wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 22:11

but to be fair, steve only had a CRAIG CASSETTE to record this one:

index.php/fa/2149/0/

Dude, you've got the original Melody House release of Carpet Square?!?!


Do you know what that thing is worth?
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: minister on January 02, 2006, 10:51:00 pm
Charles Dye wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 21:47

Dude, you've got the original Melody House release of Carpet Square?!?!

Do you know what that thing is worth?
a LOT! more than my original Lynyrd Skynyrd STREET SURVIVORS with the fire on the cover, i can tell you THAT!
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Aardvark on January 02, 2006, 10:55:59 pm
Ron Steele wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 22:35

Quote:

At this point I wondered when the the threshold of surrealism was crossed and how I managed to miss it.



Aardvark, your feelings of puzzlement and doubt left on the doorstep of your subconscious, and how it relates to Kenny as the subject matter, could be the workings that lies in your smeary hands. That fantastic imagery alone could have lead you to believe the up and down juxtaposition you are so preoccupied with attemps to express the demonstrable urgency your so lost in.

I hope that helps.




No, but it does serve to illustrate rather nicely my point about your clumsy writing skills!


Cheers,
Aardvark





P.S. Watch your use of "your"...the grammar Police are out tonight....Just ask Kenny!!!

Hehehehehe
Laughing  Surprised  Twisted Evil
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Ron Steele on January 02, 2006, 11:05:41 pm
Quote:

No, but it does serve to illustrate rather nicely my point about your clumsy writing skills!


Alright then aardvark, I will simplify things for you.

Maybe you were to busy to notice much of anything whilst jerking off to the photo of the little drummer boy.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: minister on January 02, 2006, 11:13:20 pm
Ron Steele wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 22:05

Alright then aardvark, I will simplify things for you.

Maybe you were to busy to notice much of anything whilst jerking off to the photo of the little drummer boy.
you mean this one?

index.php/fa/2154/0/
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Aardvark on January 02, 2006, 11:18:16 pm
Ron Steele wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 23:05

Quote:

No, but it does serve to illustrate rather nicely my point about your clumsy writing skills!


Alright then aardvark, I will simplify things for you.

Maybe you were to busy to notice much of anything whilst jerking off to the photo of the little drummer boy.


There is nothing like an elegant phrase in the hands of a master wordsmith such as yourself.


I do enjoy seeing the leopard's spots in it's natural habitat, even if it is merely having a bowel movement.



Cheers,
Aardvark
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: maxim on January 02, 2006, 11:23:14 pm
aardvark wrote:

"A piss up between Internet mods in a music forum"

don't the marsh creatures like to feel important?



"...If I am deep-frying potato chips do I need to put them into some boiling oil after after they come out of the deep-fryer to cook them?"

i would seriously check with your mum first

unlike music production, when cooking, someone can really get hurt
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: minister on January 02, 2006, 11:24:25 pm
Awwwww....  feel the love guys!

index.php/fa/2155/0/
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: maxim on January 02, 2006, 11:26:49 pm
minister, you are killing me with your brand of love
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: peyemp on January 02, 2006, 11:27:32 pm
maxim wrote on Tue, 03 January 2006 04:23


unlike music production, when cooking, someone can really get hurt




Oh contraire !  I've been deeply hurt and offended by alot of music I've heard through the years.  Crushed, you may say.  I'm still in a great deal of pain-- whatever you do, please don't mention "Elvira" by the Statler Bros..  Confused
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: minister on January 02, 2006, 11:27:36 pm
maxim wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 22:23

"...If I am deep-frying potato chips do I need to put them into some boiling oil after after they come out of the deep-fryer to cook them?"

i would seriously check with your mum first

unlike music production, when cooking, someone can really get hurt

i dunno, this guy seems to have it DOWN.  i mean....
index.php/fa/2156/0/
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: minister on January 02, 2006, 11:32:25 pm
maxim wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 22:26

minister, you are killing me with your brand of love

ohh...how sweet! i feel like we're just like family!

index.php/fa/2157/0/
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Kam Fong as Chin Ho on January 02, 2006, 11:35:35 pm
minister wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 22:22

while i'm still stuck here in the upper midwest working on sheeitte like this

index.php/fa/2152/0/


This is a good one.  I recall seeing it in the album cover thread in the marsh a couple of months ago.
Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: Aardvark on January 02, 2006, 11:35:40 pm
maxim wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 23:23

....i would seriously check with your mum first

unlike music production, when cooking, someone can really get hurt





May I safely presume your are a graduate of the Robocop school of clever, witty and original commentary?



Cheers,
Aardvark





Title: Re: Who was more important?
Post by: electrical on January 03, 2006, 12:04:50 am
Okay, what have we learned?

The Minutemen were more important than Wang Chung, according to the readers of this forum.

That settles it.