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R/E/P => R/E/P Archives => Budget? Budget? We Don't Got No Steekin' Budjet => Topic started by: Warren Mcstay on January 31, 2009, 09:26:44 pm

Title: Large diaphragm condensers
Post by: Warren Mcstay on January 31, 2009, 09:26:44 pm
Hi guys,

I'm looking to purchase a matched pair of LDC's, unfortunately I'm on a budget of around
Title: Re: Large diaphragm condensers
Post by: hargerst on January 31, 2009, 09:36:07 pm
I found the Rode NT1 to be a bit on the bright side; a bit too bright for my taste.  I haven't heard the "A" version, so I can't comment on that.  Studio Projects, MXL, ADK, and Avant have some excellent low cost mics available.
Title: Re: Large diaphragm condensers
Post by: Tomas Danko on January 31, 2009, 11:46:59 pm
My advice is to avoid the NT1 and NT1a (especially). The Rode NT1000 is a much better microphone. However, if you can afford a pair ot NT2000 you will be so much more diverse regardless of the recording task at hand.
Title: Re: Large diaphragm condensers
Post by: Derek DiFilippo on February 01, 2009, 03:05:13 pm
Hey Warren,

Make sure you check out the responses you received in your original thread..... KSM32 getting a lot of votes for your needs & budget.
Title: Re: Large diaphragm condensers
Post by: Vertigo on February 03, 2009, 09:31:52 pm
I'd also recommend the KSM32. Great mic and sounds good on everything.

-Lance
Title: Re: Large diaphragm condensers
Post by: Rasmuth on June 26, 2009, 01:07:42 pm
You also may want to look into Sterling Audio.
Title: Re: Large diaphragm condensers
Post by: Larry Villella on July 04, 2009, 01:36:30 am


My question would be why do you want a matched pair?

If you need a couple of all-around studio condensers,
then it's often better to go "Asymetrical" , i.e. two
different "Tone-Colors". Complimentary, but not identical
would be what I'd want to be left on a desert island with . . .

Title: Re: Large diaphragm condensers
Post by: hargerst on July 04, 2009, 02:38:46 pm
Larry Villella wrote on Sat, 04 July 2009 00:36

My question would be why do you want a matched pair?

If you need a couple of all-around studio condensers,
then it's often better to go "Asymetrical" , i.e. two
different "Tone-Colors". Complimentary, but not identical
would be what I'd want to be left on a desert island with . . .

Good call, Larry,

I missed that in the original post, and I agree.  Two different LDC's makes a lot more sense. Two identical SDC's however would be a different story.
Title: Re: Large diaphragm condensers
Post by: Samc on July 12, 2009, 07:51:57 pm
Larry Villella wrote on Sat, 04 July 2009 06:36



My question would be why do you want a matched pair?

If you need a couple of all-around studio condensers,
then it's often better to go "Asymetrical" , i.e. two
different "Tone-Colors". Complimentary, but not identical
would be what I'd want to be left on a desert island with . . .

I disagree, with a pair he can make stereo recordings, I believe that ideally microphones should be bought in pairs, this whole "color" argument is for everything is way overrated...

Musicians and their instruments provide color.
Title: Re: Large diaphragm condensers
Post by: compasspnt on July 12, 2009, 11:03:25 pm
Samc wrote on Sun, 12 July 2009 19:51

I disagree, with a pair he can make stereo recordings, I believe that ideally microphones should be bought in pairs, this whole "color" argument is for everything is way overrated...

Musicians and their instruments provide color.



I mostly agree with this.
Title: Re: Large diaphragm condensers
Post by: runamuck on July 13, 2009, 10:15:02 pm
compasspnt wrote on Mon, 13 July 2009 04:03

Samc wrote on Sun, 12 July 2009 19:51

I disagree, with a pair he can make stereo recordings, I believe that ideally microphones should be bought in pairs, this whole "color" argument is for everything is way overrated...

Musicians and their instruments provide color.



I mostly agree with this.



Me too. And I'll completely agree once I've purchased the 863 transducers I'll need to complete my Microphone Rainbow (TM). Once that is accomplished, I plan to finally make my first decent recording.

Jim McCarthy
Title: Re: Large diaphragm condensers
Post by: hargerst on July 14, 2009, 12:53:40 pm
I agree that for SDC's, you should probably always buy in pairs.  LDC's are a different story for me, since I primarily use LDC's as vocal mics, so a lotta variety in mic flavors is important to me.

IF you use (or plan on using) LDC's for miking acoustic instruments in stereo, or for overheads, then, yeah, get a matched pair.
Title: Re: Large diaphragm condensers
Post by: Larry Villella on August 06, 2009, 11:08:58 am
[/quote]
I disagree ... this whole "color" argument is for everything is way overrated...

Musicians and their instruments provide color.[/quote]

I would have to say yes and no.  

Musicians and their instruments DO provide tone-color (timbre) - BUT - if you put a 'reedy'
Sax on a mellow A-T 4047 you'd likely get a much better result than on a brighter 4033.

It's the INTERACTION between the Color of the Source and the Color of the Microphone -
that Blending - that is the art of recording. (Or so it seems to me after 40 years of recording).


If one-mic-fits-all is what you're saying, I respectfully disagree.


The statistical proof (to me) of Harvey's statement is the fact that when
we offered Matched Pairs of LD Mics,we sold three times as many Vienna Pairs
as Hamburg.  The reason is that Vienna Pairs make great Drum O/H, while the
Hamburg is mostly a male vocal, sax and guitar cab mic (or so say our clients!).

I used to own a studio.  For the past 12 years I've run a microphone company.  

The feedback from all over the world has been pretty consistant.  Every vocalist
is looking for that one mic that matches up to their voice!  Guitarists, Sax players,
Trumpeters, they all tell me the same thing! In fact, Mark Isham's latest CD
Bittersweet has asymetrical mic technique on trumpet. The result is awesome!!


From my vantage point, you can never have enough colors!!!



Title: Re: Large diaphragm condensers
Post by: wwittman on August 11, 2009, 12:19:34 am
I'll see your 40 years and raise you


I can VERY happily make a record with nothing but U87s

and have

And I've seen Ken Scott do the same... who i daresay with some certainty kicks both my bum AND yours at it.

Title: Re: Large diaphragm condensers
Post by: compasspnt on August 11, 2009, 07:37:43 am
How about the new Pantone?
Title: Re: Large diaphragm condensers
Post by: Rod Affleck on August 11, 2009, 12:44:09 pm
So if I mix to tape, I need my mic colours to be CMYK, right? But if I'm mixing ITB, can I get away with just RGB mics?
Title: Re: Large diaphragm condensers
Post by: compasspnt on August 11, 2009, 03:28:31 pm
It's actually the other way 'round, but yes.
Title: Re: Large diaphragm condensers
Post by: Larry Villella on August 12, 2009, 01:49:20 pm
ALL U-87 recording was precisely the way I learned to record.

In fact, the first album I co-engineered was ABC Impulse
"Hues" - Sam Rivers, Jr. Trio live at the Jazz Workshop

Eight U-87 tracked piano, sax, bass and drums.

In listening to this 1971 record today, I sure wish
we'd had a U-67 or U-47 for Sax. (So it goes. . . .)

I'm of the opinion that Mic Technique is as important
as Mic Selection in getting good results. But having
a monochromatic mic locker isn't an ideal situation!


As far as other engineers having more skill than I do,
I freely admit I'm happier being in the tracking room
playing music, rather than in the control room tracking!
Title: Re: Large diaphragm condensers
Post by: Tom D on August 12, 2009, 03:34:42 pm
I don't believe I've purchased any mics that weren't in pairs in the last 10 years!  Regardless of type or brand, Always in pairs!    Besides, if you don't really NEED the first one, you might as well have a pair you don't need!

Tom Durso
First Bass Audio
Macomb, IL
Title: Re: Large diaphragm condensers
Post by: Bill_Urick on August 12, 2009, 05:58:53 pm
Pairs are OK.
I prefer Three of a Kind.
Better yet a full house, KM86's over U87's.
Title: Re: Large diaphragm condensers
Post by: compasspnt on August 12, 2009, 08:27:56 pm
As much as I love to make fun of the "colour" and "flavour" and "palette" syndrome, it is indeed a more important thing to have various choices of microphones than of preamplifiers.
Title: Re: Large diaphragm condensers
Post by: hargerst on August 13, 2009, 12:31:32 am
compasspnt wrote on Wed, 12 August 2009 19:27

As much as I love to make fun of the "colour" and "flavour" and "palette" syndrome, it is indeed a more important thing to have various choices of microphones than of preamplifiers.

Ahhh, another voice of reason.

And, as I've said many times:

"Mic placement is often more important than mic selection".
Title: Re: Large diaphragm condensers
Post by: Tim Boyce on August 20, 2009, 07:49:23 pm
Look at CAD M-179's .. Anything made before 2007 was still USA made.

They fit in your price with shockmounts, are build like tanks (heavy hefty and hot) take high SPL, and are variable pattern. (rotary, not switchable, so everything in-between fig8 - omni)

The good ++

  + patterns let you do M/S ORFT, etc .. and 'allow' ambience in as needed. (great room, lucky you, not so great room, dial it away)

  + I would use them on tour, in a backpack, on the subway, anywhere, easy to dismantle and fairly consistent sound. (as far as the price range goes)  


The Bad --

   - Not sure if they come in officially 'matched pairs' but you could have a third party test them if it was critical.

   - big cases
   
   - I would test the positions of the dial, it could be possible there are slight variations in response even if the dial is in the same spot. (with the exception at the end of it's travel, ie: fig8 and Omni)


The sound Wink

    Where it really matters, I most often hear them on things like Toms and Guitar, they would be 'ok' on harp, but nowhere close to an Earthworks .. I wouldn't use them for flute or shakers. They feel dark but but are not low-endy. And actually might sit very well in a mix made with other (bright) cheap mics.  

Try out a pair, I'm sure Warren Dent at Zen Pro Audio or anyone you have local would let you try a couple for a week, or even help you in matching them.

Goodluck!