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R/E/P => R/E/P Archives => Budget? Budget? We Don't Got No Steekin' Budjet => Topic started by: Producer - Anvil Records on March 26, 2008, 04:20:04 PM

Title: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: Producer - Anvil Records on March 26, 2008, 04:20:04 PM
Is the AT 4050 extremely versatile in a studio that records mostly Vocals, Acoustic Guitar, Electric Guitar (cabs), Bass(cab), Keyboards, Drums(o/h and outside kick), Hand Drums, and occasional woodwinds? Most people say it's a natural and neutral sound on many instruments including vocals... we're looking for a swiss army mic with multi-patterns, I guess I should say could... Comments?? is there something about this mic that you don't like?
Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: hargerst on March 26, 2008, 04:34:45 PM
If I remember correctly, the AT4050 is a small diaphragm mic (about 5/8" across) but that's the only thing I remember about it.

Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: Michael Brebes on March 26, 2008, 07:06:15 PM
I have one and they are okay, but if I was going to get a multipattern mic that is multipurpose, I would probably opt for an AKG 414 before an AT4050.
Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: tom eaton on March 26, 2008, 07:31:02 PM
4050 is a 1" dual diaphragm three pattern mic... neutral on the bright/lean side of things.  My favorite uses have been one particular baritone voice and many mandolins.

If you're looking for a mic in that ballpark that would do a bunch of things well, the 4050 is pretty good... for my money though, the Shure KSM44 is more useful across a wide range of sources... unless you really like "air."

I have not used the Rode offerings in that class, but many here have had good things to say about the NT2a and NT2000, and I love my NT6 mics.

-tom
Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: Bill_Urick on March 26, 2008, 08:02:15 PM
FWIW I understand the the 4050 was used as a lead vocal mic on the last Brad Paisley album. Mike Clink (Guns and Roses) also used it as a lead vox mic on tracks cut with Brad Cox, a new artist he's working with. I have tried one but thought it was a little bright for what I needed. Good sounding mic though.
Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: hargerst on March 26, 2008, 11:43:03 PM
tom eaton wrote on Wed, 26 March 2008 18:31

4050 is a 1" dual diaphragm three pattern mic
-tom


Ok, if the AT4033 and 4050 are 1", what size are the 4047 and 4060?  2"?
index.php/fa/8275/0/

Judging from their ad (and all the XLR connectors are equal size), the 4047 and 4060 look huge by comparison.  I know for a fact that the 4033 is 5/8", so what's the size of the 4050?

Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: compasspnt on March 27, 2008, 12:35:21 AM
Sorry, never met an AT I really really liked.
Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: hargerst on March 27, 2008, 01:42:54 AM
compasspnt wrote on Wed, 26 March 2008 23:35

Sorry, never met an AT I really really liked.


You're not alone, Terry.  Al Schmitt ain't a big fan of them either.
Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: tom eaton on March 27, 2008, 09:05:56 AM
Harvey,

The 4033 is a smaller d. than the 4050, 4047 and 4060.  The perforated surround is misleading.  Look at the capsule size, not the size of the metal work.  The 4033 is much closer to 1/2" while the other three are roughly 1". (I've been an AT dealer for 10 years or so... I'll see what lit I have when I get to work this morning... they don't spec diaphragm size in too much of their product info)

There are a few large looking mics with mid- to small-diaphragms inside, the Shure KSM32, AT4033 and (as far as I remember) the AKG C3000 are all kind of "middle" size.  The capsules in some pencil mics (like the GT44) are 3/4", actually larger or the same size as those in some of these mics.

-tom
Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: compasspnt on March 27, 2008, 10:31:03 AM
Man, talkin' 'bout double talk:

"The rich, warm sound takes you back to the classic F.E.T. studio microphones.  But there's nothing remotely old-fashioned about the technology behind that vintage sound."

All things to all people.
Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: tom eaton on March 27, 2008, 10:46:07 AM
That is curious... though the 4047 does have an actual transformer coupled output.  Which is old fashioned.  Unless old fashioned is bad today, I mean in terms of technology, that is, like, technology should be new but sound old.  Yeah, that's the ticket.
Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: tom eaton on March 27, 2008, 11:06:24 AM
Just dismantled a 4033, capsule is .6 inches.

edit-- damn, i wish i had noticed that harvey had posted the 4033 capsule size before i took one of mine apart.

-t
Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: Bill_Urick on March 27, 2008, 07:34:42 PM
FWIW, the 4033 and KSM32 ar both electret mics. Don't know if that has anything to do with the diaphragm size. I had some KSM32's and 27's and thought they sounded similar to but not as good as the 4033 and 4047 (respectively), so I dumped them. I like the 4047's a lot. They don't look (or sound) just like a Telefunken U47, in or out of leather, but they keep me from wanting a U87. KM86? 'nother story entirely.

What's an electret?

How do you guys feel about macaroni and cheese?
Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: tom eaton on March 27, 2008, 07:54:25 PM
An electret is simply a condenser that has a permanent charge to the backplate, rather than using phantom to provide the polarizing voltage.  Electrets do need phantom to power the head amp.

Electrets or "true" condensers can have capsules of any size.  Electrets used to be second class citizens in the condenser world, but at this point there are quite a few very good sounding electrets out there.

I'm not sure why you would put up a 4033 against a KSM32, or a KSM27 against a 4047.  The KSM27 and 4033 are both designed as vocal mics, the KSM32 is a "flat" multipurpose instrument mic (great on snare, btw) and the 4047 is its own thing entirely.  I also really like the 4047 and have had dozens of happy tracks made with KSM32s.  I have pairs of both and it would not occur to me to use the 32s in place of the 4047s or vice versa.

-tom
Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: Jack Schitt on March 27, 2008, 10:34:32 PM
The 4050's are decent enough as a general all 'rounder while having there moments as outstanding. As an example, I got fantastic acoustic Gtr sounds with a 4033 (mid) and 4050 (side) in a M/S setup.
Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: Bill_Urick on March 27, 2008, 11:27:27 PM
tom eaton wrote on Thu, 27 March 2008 19:54

An electret is simply a condenser that has a permanent charge to the backplate, rather than using phantom to provide the polarizing voltage.  Electrets do need phantom to power the head amp.

Electrets or "true" condensers can have capsules of any size.  Electrets used to be second class citizens in the condenser world, but at this point there are quite a few very good sounding electrets out there.

I'm not sure why you would put up a 4033 against a KSM32, or a KSM27 against a 4047.  The KSM27 and 4033 are both designed as vocal mics, the KSM32 is a "flat" multipurpose instrument mic (great on snare, btw) and the 4047 is its own thing entirely.  I also really like the 4047 and have had dozens of happy tracks made with KSM32s.  I have pairs of both and it would not occur to me to use the 32s in place of the 4047s or vice versa.

-tom


Just that I had a pair of each of the four mics and was doing a little pruning. A good mic should be useful in a variety of applications, as I have found both of the AT models to be. As for the comparison pairings I matched the two electrets with similar sized diaphragms and the two 1" externally polarized condensers. I really thought the sound similarities followed the capsule types to an extent. I just never found myself using the Shures for anything. Different strokes....

You didn't really address the macaroni and cheese issue, by the way. Do you prefer straight Cheddar, Velveeta or perhaps a combination of cheeses? Then of course there is the pasta to be considered.
Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: Galil on March 28, 2008, 10:41:17 AM
Sharp Aged White Cheddar.  No processed cheese-food.  With elbows.

Galil
Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: C.Cash on March 28, 2008, 10:59:37 AM
I have a 4047 that I have used on just about everything do to my lack of choices. For the money I think it sounds good.
Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: Harland on March 28, 2008, 05:09:53 PM
I own the 4050 Cm5 (which is now discontinued) and I don't know how the new 4050 sounds in comparison, but I would answer your question with an unqualified yes, considering which forum you posted in.
Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: JDNelson on March 28, 2008, 05:33:37 PM
AT mic's won't get your pulse elevated but you've got to agree the QC level is always reliable.  Then again, I'll bet Terry will say reliably bland... (LOL!).
Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: tom eaton on March 28, 2008, 09:26:41 PM
AT's service department is great, too.

Sorry, Bill.  Here's my vote:

http://www.annies.com/organicmacandcheese

-tom
Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: zakco on March 29, 2008, 01:26:55 PM
I have a pair of 4050s and a pair of 414s and use them both daily.
They both have their strengths and weaknesses, but where the 4050 really shines is in omni mode, where the 414 falls down flat IMO.

I recently did a classical solo piano recording with a pair of 4050s as spaced omnis and it beat out the other half dozen more expensive mics I brought along.

I've used it with great sucess as omni outriggers for a symphony, on gtr amps (cardoid), as a "front of kit" mic (again in omni) and for some vocalists it's just the ticket. I can't say the same for my 414s...

-Z-
Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: tom eaton on March 29, 2008, 01:39:45 PM
Hey Zak-

A "414" can mean just about anything... for the sake of posterity, care to give the entire model number?  I Have 2 414EBs and 2 414B-XLII, here.  Totally different animals.

-tom
Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: jnorman on April 11, 2008, 12:25:56 PM
i have owned DPAs, schoeps, gefells, a variety of neumanns and akgs, rodes, SPs, - lots of mics, and i rather like the AT40xx line quite a bit.  i get a lot of use out of the at4050s and the at4051s for all kinds of instrumental applications from pedal harp, grand piano and acoustic guitar to woodwinds and strings.  
Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: jnorman on April 11, 2008, 12:31:12 PM
zak - same kind of experience here - i did a solo piano CD recently with a 7'4" bosendorfer, where i tried DPA 4006 omnis, dpa 4011s, at4050s in omni, and at4051s in ORTF.  while i was certain the 4011s were the ticket (i had previously done another CD with this same piano/pianist with the 4011s), turned out the AT4051s won the shootout, and are what we used on the CD.  the 4050s came in second, 4011s, next and the 4006s last (wow, how crazy is that?)  my mastering engineer said it was one of the best piano recordings he had heard in a while.
Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: tom eaton on April 11, 2008, 03:23:54 PM
Oh, I love the 4051s, too... have 4 here, with two extra omni capsules (4053).  Probably  my favorite for "transparent."  

-tom

Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: grantis on April 14, 2008, 12:08:10 AM
I used my AT 4050 on a screamo singer.

Not the best application for that mic.  I regretted it immediately once i started in on mixing.

The mic's previously mentioned "Air" is better suited for whispery vocals, acoustic guitar, piano, etc.  

I imagine it would work well as an overhead drum mic, or room mic, but I have yet to try it, so don't take my word for it.

Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: marcel on April 30, 2008, 04:30:30 PM
Harland wrote on Fri, 28 March 2008 14:09

I own the 4050 Cm5 (which is now discontinued) and I don't know how the new 4050 sounds in comparison, but I would answer your question with an unqualified yes, considering which forum you posted in.


Has anybody compared these 2 mics (the old 4050/CM5 and the newer 4050)?

I have the older one that I would like to pair, as I'm selling my 414s to get a better vocal mic.

I guess I can buy a new one and return it if it doesn't match...

Best, Marcel
Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: marcel on April 30, 2008, 05:38:09 PM
grant richard wrote on Sun, 13 April 2008 21:08

I used my AT 4050 on a screamo singer.


...SM-7B.

Best, Marcel
Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: vegas4ever on May 01, 2008, 08:50:53 AM
marcel wrote on Wed, 30 April 2008 16:38

grant richard wrote on Sun, 13 April 2008 21:08

I used my AT 4050 on a screamo singer.


...SM-7B.

Best, Marcel



....RE20
Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: rhfactor on May 03, 2008, 11:46:54 AM
The AT 4050 is an excellent mic imo. It is considered by many to be a good workhorse/all around microphone.  I'm not sure that there is a difference between the AT4050 CM5 (which I own) and the new ones.  They may have dropped the CM5 part of the name but I've never seen or heard anything about AT changing or updating it.  The shockmount it comes with now is different.  I reserve the right to be wrong on this.
Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: Stephen Payne on May 04, 2008, 12:14:53 PM
Galil wrote on Fri, 28 March 2008 09:41

 No processed cheese-food.  
Galil

I love that cheese-food stuff. And cool color too.

What no air mike should I get?? I've got $600.
Could shop /stretch for a KSM 44
or just buy a RE20 and lots of Mac and Cheese.
Need multi purpose vocal / instrument and No Air. Got plenty of those.
Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: marcel on May 06, 2008, 01:59:07 AM
rhfactor wrote on Sat, 03 May 2008 08:46

The AT 4050 is an excellent mic imo. It is considered by many to be a good workhorse/all around microphone.  I'm not sure that there is a difference between the AT4050 CM5 (which I own) and the new ones.  They may have dropped the CM5 part of the name but I've never seen or heard anything about AT changing or updating it.  The shockmount it comes with now is different.  I reserve the right to be wrong on this.


FWIW, I just borrowed one of the new ones from a shop and compared it with my CM5.  I could not get them to null on program material played out through one of my monitors...  

Not to say that a NOS CM5 would not null, mine was originally purchased second hand and has been heavily used (while never abused) by me for about 5 years now...

Not exactly scientific testing, but I know I'm probably not going to be able to pair that mic very easily.

Best, Marcel




Title: Re: AtT 4050 mic - versatile studio mic?
Post by: Jack Schitt on May 06, 2008, 01:33:24 PM
marcel wrote on Tue, 06 May 2008 01:59

rhfactor wrote on Sat, 03 May 2008 08:46

The AT 4050 is an excellent mic imo. It is considered by many to be a good workhorse/all around microphone.  I'm not sure that there is a difference between the AT4050 CM5 (which I own) and the new ones.  They may have dropped the CM5 part of the name but I've never seen or heard anything about AT changing or updating it.  The shockmount it comes with now is different.  I reserve the right to be wrong on this.


FWIW, I just borrowed one of the new ones from a shop and compared it with my CM5.  I could not get them to null on program material played out through one of my monitors...  

Not to say that a NOS CM5 would not null, mine was originally purchased second hand and has been heavily used (while never abused) by me for about 5 years now...

Not exactly scientific testing, but I know I'm probably not going to be able to pair that mic very easily.

Best, Marcel






Thats not a very realistic. I doubt you will ever find two mics that will null. The specs on the materials used to make the mic are at VERY best +/- 5% and at that price range probably +/- 20% at best.