Post by: J.J. Blair on July 21, 2006, 09:08:29 PM
http://www.saturn-sound.com/products/replacement%20valve.htm
Does anybody know the guys at Saturn or have any experience with them?
I'm reading some of their information they've written, like the differences between the C12 and C24, and their opinions are well reflected enough that I'm curious to hear what they have come up with. I wonder if their replacement tubes sound better than some people's replacement capsules, for instance.
Post by: ricknroll on July 23, 2006, 06:19:10 PM
| J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 21 July 2006 18:08 |
Does anybody know the guys at Saturn or have any experience with them? |
My limited experience: on two different occasions I tried to buy mics from them, but when it came time for me to actually pay for the stuff, Ashley did not follow through (i.e., he stopped responding to my emails). I'm not sure what happened...we only exchanged a few emails, so it's not like he had any reason to think I was just stringing him along.
Rick Hedges
Post by: Markus Sauschlager on July 28, 2006, 04:36:51 PM
Post by: Barry Hufker on July 28, 2006, 07:56:13 PM
He might be eccentric. Name someone in audio who isn't.
Barry
Post by: bukarin on August 13, 2006, 02:13:24 PM
The U47 apparently had some interesting component choices before he changed them (it sounded terrible before although Neumann had checked it over and replaced the M7 capsule fairly recently!)
I also spoke to him on the phone the other day and he seemed really helpful and knowledgeable. We haven't had any communication problems with Ashley and all the mics have been turned round in good time. He's definitely worth talking too and as far as I'm aware there is nobody else in the UK working on microphones to this level independently (I also spoke to a tech when I was at Abbey Road recently who said they had outsourced some specialist work to him; they have a mic specialist in residence so I guess they must hold him in some regard).
Hope this is useful, I'll let you know what I think of the modded mic when I hear it, altough it'll be hard to give much of an objective opinion about the valve knowing all the rest of the work he has done.
Post by: Norm McCleary on April 08, 2008, 08:38:31 AM
One we cut up to check it out, though we tested both before doing so to see if they could perform anything like a VF14. With the two we have, both are useless.
Here is a photo of one of the two Saturn's 'RV-14m' , cut open. What you can't see is that the tube is a GE 407a!
Regards, Norm McCleary
Post by: Saturn Sound on April 17, 2008, 02:51:58 AM
Having sold many of these valves (tubes), I would like to point out the amount of positive feedback that I have received from many of my clients.
www.saturn-sound.com\products\replacement valve.htm to read customer feedback
Like any product, the occasional component can and will fail e.g. One RV-14m failed after only a few hours use, due to an open circuit heater (filament). A very rare fault indeed. However, this is the only reported problem that I am aware of and I have received no other negative feedback.
I am a strong believer in negative feedback from clients, as this leads to positive changes in design etc.
There is no secret as to what is inside the case of the RV-14m. Pictures on my web-site clearly show the inside of the RV-14m at various stages of design and construction:
www.saturn-sound.com\products\rv-14m_design_and_construction .htm.
The valve (tube) used in the RV-14m, might cosmetically appear very similar from the outside as a GE 407a, just like many other valves (tubes).
There is very little space to fit any other sized valve (tube) within the space of a VF14. Therefore the size of the glass envelope will be (small) out of necessity rather than design.
So to put the record straight
Post by: compasspnt on April 17, 2008, 08:49:08 AM
Thanks for posting.
I think you have incorrectly listed your website URL's however.
Looks like you put back slashes when it perhaps should be forwards.
Here is where I found the valve const page:
http://www.saturn-sound.com/products/rv-14m_design_and_const ruction.htm
BTW, we all now fully understand that valves are tubes.
Thanks!
Post by: Oliver Archut on April 17, 2008, 09:35:35 AM
Over the years there were several so called direct replacements for the VF14 that all claimed to be identical, most build upon the Western Electric 40x series, either the 20/40 V version of the 2C51 (407) or the 50mA/20V version of the EF95 (408).
Depending on the maker (WE, NE, GE, RCA, Ericson, Philips) some of them sound O.K. but have nothing to do with an VF14. Some other tubes that are favored, were the 5904 to 5908 group of tubes, but none of the above is really a direct replacement.
Passing signal does not mean it sounds good and there are a lot of people whom I meet that love the sound of the 5905, mostly in conjunction with a Thiersch reskin.
If one of the guys posting here really uses this forum to try to discredit you, I think Klaus would take care of that.
Regarding your claim of a custom made tube, I do understand to keep the real designation under wraps, in case it would sound the same as an VF14, but all tubes, whether of western or eastern origin are quite well documented and none has an ML designation. The Brits used CV for custom valves, the Americans STR; so what is up with your 'ML'? Are those ones custom made for you?
Post by: ssltech on April 17, 2008, 12:30:24 PM
I have asked Norm to chime in! K.H.
Post by: J.J. Blair on April 18, 2008, 02:48:48 AM
Post by: mullard on April 18, 2008, 04:32:50 AM
So far, I'm far from being convinced.
Post by: Norm McCleary on April 18, 2008, 05:25:24 AM
My son is a professional musician and I enjoy the production side of the industry. I have built/am building one of the best and most well equiped private studios in Perth Australia. I am neither attached or affiliated to anyone in the music industry except my son.
I have given a real and knowledgeable description of this product from personal use and commissioned testing to the best of my own ability. I am willing to run further tests if the tubes are available, however I have tested two and in a sonic sense, both are far from what they claim to emulate. Norm
Post by: rodabod on April 18, 2008, 08:27:52 AM
Can you tell us what you meant about receiving the item in a "bulk deal"? That just sounded a little strange.
Also, people here tend to try to describe why something sounds better or worse rather than just stating that it doesn't sound as good as it should, etc. Is it sonically lacking in any particular area in your opinion?
I think it would be nice if someone reputable could review one of these or possibly provide A/B samples to let us hear ourselves.
Post by: Oliver Archut on April 18, 2008, 09:00:18 AM
Regards,
Post by: Norm McCleary on April 18, 2008, 12:07:17 PM
These were in the mics. I had Gunter (Wagner) test all the tubes and he was able to rehabilatate 3 of the Tele tubes. One of the U47 was in good order but sounded quite harsh, this was with the replacement tube. We swapped it out for an original and
everything got better. The U47 for parts had a stuffed diaphram which I had re-skinned and then fitted another of the Tele tubes and now we had two very nice mics working to full specs.
For the fun of it we decided to cut up one of the replacement tubes, to see what was under the bonnet. Thats the story of the "Bulk Buy".
Regards Norm
Post by: studiochap on May 17, 2008, 09:05:15 PM
Many years ago I sent Ashley Styles an AKG capsule from an ELAM 251 microphone to be reconditioned with
Post by: Phil Mayor on May 31, 2008, 04:47:24 PM
I wanted to find out about his C12VR mods. I tried again recently with a question and a request to buy something he was advertising. I left lots of emails, lots of answer phone messages...nothing. Never replied. I don't mean to upset anyone just telling you the facts.
Shame though, his page is interesting and he seems like a nice guy during the one time I spoke to him. I doubt I could do business with him even though I'd like to. Imagine sending your priceless mic in and never being able to get hold of him! A shame, really.
Post by: Eric H. on May 31, 2008, 04:53:44 PM
Post by: Saturn Sound on June 01, 2008, 08:02:01 AM
Re your reply on Prosoundweb,
From my Records, I have only ever received three e-mails from you, dated 10/01/07, 12/01/07 and 25/02/07, to which I gave you a reply to each, thus dated 11/01/07, 15/01/07 and 26/02/07 !
The last e-mail (26/02/07) stating that the item in question had just been sold, hence why you could not purchase it.
As for "Sorting out the problem" and "Sending a part", then I have no recollection on that. I would only sort out a problem, if the microphone was sent through for working on, and I would only supply a part if an "Order" was placed.
I hold my "Hands-up", I am difficult to contact via the telephone, hence why my site states that e-mail is the preferred method of contact. If I answered the telephone every time I received a call, then I would never do any work.
Plus like everybody else, I do have Holidays. I am not available 365 days a year !!!
As for any work sent in for servicing etc, I always give confirmation of safe arrival etc, for obvious reasons, and send "up-dates" of the progress of a job, as and when required.
Sincerely
Ashley C. Styles
SATURN SOUND Recording Services
Post by: Markus Sauschlager on June 01, 2008, 04:12:02 PM
| Saturn Sound wrote on Sun, 01 June 2008 14:02 |
I hold my "Hands-up", I am difficult to contact via the telephone, hence why my site states that e-mail is the preferred method of contact. |
I too have tried to contact Saturn Sound via email because I was interested to buy used mics offered on the website. Did that on several occasions, never got a reply!
Well, not a problem as I bought the models I wanted eventually elsewhere, but I think that ignoring inquiries/emails isn't really customer friendly. Kinda proves bad manners.
Anyway, I appreciate the website.
Markus
Post by: J.J. Blair on June 01, 2008, 06:31:24 PM
Post by: Markus Sauschlager on June 01, 2008, 07:50:27 PM
Post by: aludra on October 05, 2008, 09:36:35 PM
I run a recording studio here in Nashville for over 25 years.
I have a U47 that is in perfect condition and had an excellent vf-14 tube that was very clean and low noise. But I had concerns about the life of the tube using the u47 on a daily basis....
So I purchased Ashleys replacement and it is FANTASTIC!!!!The only change in sound quality I could detect was a bit LOWER noise and a slight extension of high end...and I mean very slight....
I would put my u47 against any here in Nashville as I have rented all that I could find to compare other tube substitions and Ashleys tube was THE CLOSEST to my original tube PERIOD!
Also Ashley was very helpful and responded quickly to my MANY questions...
Sooooo...not sure why others have had problems, but I felt the need to express my great results with this replacement and I have recorded very difficult vocals using this tube replacement and everytime I have been very happy with the results.
Regards,
Mike Bridges
Germantown Studio, Nashville
Post by: Phil Mayor on January 13, 2009, 03:28:03 PM
ALso I wondered how much it would affect the value of a U47/8
Thanks, Phil.
Post by: Klaus Heyne on January 13, 2009, 03:53:36 PM
The rule of thumb: The value reduction will be about on par with the amount of money it would cost to obtain a perfectly working, cosmetically clean, original part.
If circuit modifications or irreversible cosmetic alterations would need to be made in addition, then deduct quite a bit more.