Post by: sstillwell on April 25, 2004, 01:31:54 AM
I won a bid to record a local community symphony orchestra (I also wound up providing sound and lights on short notice, but that's another story...).
Here's the setup:
1 X-Y pair of Shure SM81 for reinforcement (for the sides of the room...audience was nearly "in the round").
1 X-Y pair of MXL 603S
1 Audio Technica boundary mic (don't know the model#) mounted on 18" square of plexiglas.
The X-Y pairs were both on a QuikLok studio boom, on the audience floor 3' below the stage, left-right positioned just stage right of the podium (towards the first violin section), tilted down to aim just past/behind the first row of musicians.
The AT boundary mic was at the back of the room behind the audience...for ambience more than anything.
The room was 80' X 160', with the orchestra situated along the center of the long wall, aimed across the short dimension of the room. The room used to be a show horse arena, and has concrete floors, but wood walls and roof. When empty, the place is a reverberant hell. There were approximately 1100 people at the concert (sold out show), and the orchestra is approximately 90 pieces.
Mics went down a plain-vanilla Whirlwind Medusa snake to a Soundcraft Spirit LX7-24 board. The SM81s were the only thing live to the mains, but I took all five mics from the direct outs on the channels to my DAW.
Intel D875PBZ board
P4 2.8GHz/800FSB
1GB DDR400 dual-channel RAM
Delta 1010
Vegas 4
Recording was done at 48/24, and levels never exceeded -25dB on any channel on the 1010.
Mixing mostly consisted of setting a relative level for the mics and applying a teensy bit of EQ and compression (UAD-1 Pultec and Fairchild, respectively). I then used a dedicated mastering EQ program "Har-Bal" to do the final tweaks to EQ. Pulled the results into Sound Forge to maximize levels, burn it to CD in Vegas, and we're done.
Now, I know I wasn't using DPA or Schoeps mics into Millennia preamps, but I thought it turned out at least okay...maybe even better.
Now, I go through all of this for two reasons...
A) to tell you that I LOVE the sound of those 603s for symphony. The SM81s just sounded...flat, dull, sterile...I dunno how else to describe it. The MXLs sounded warm and alive. Specs say that they have a peak at around 10k...but it was the warmth that I noticed.
B) to have you guys tell me what you think of the end product. I rendered an MP3 at 160kbps for about 1:30 (which is about all that will fit in the 2MB upload allowance).
Regards,
Scott Stillwell
PS: I like the new place, Harvey!
Post by: sstillwell on April 25, 2004, 01:53:59 AM
The stage was raised 3' above the floor of the arena, the mic stand was on the floor of the arena, extended full length, so that the mics were at a height about 6' above the conductor's head, but were actually somewhere to the left of his left shoulder.
Hope that's more clear.
Scott
Post by: hargerst on April 25, 2004, 08:58:46 AM
Post by: sstillwell on April 25, 2004, 12:12:45 PM
Thank you, Harvey. I read as much as I could when I was selecting SD condenser mics (no real local source for borrowing/renting them...music stores have been dropping like flies around here, including one that I spent 15 years building a relationship with), and was agonizing over spending what I really couldn't afford at the moment for a matched pair of MC012 from The Sound Room...decided that I really COULDN'T afford them at the moment, and took comfort from your opinions of the 603S. I'll still probably get the MC012s later. Along with Lord knows what else.
The next thing I want to try for this type of recording is a M-S setup, or a modified M-S setup proposed by some of the folks that do live recording for PBS. One M-S setup facing forward at a reasonable audience distance, one M-S setup (or was it cardioid?) facing backwards into the audience, just at the boundary of direct & reverberant field. Mix to taste.
Maybe I'll try out the Studio Projects LSD2...or a couple of them...
Gahh...GAS is a terrible thing. (to self) Remember, Scott, cheap WORKS.
Scott Stillwell
Post by: floodstage on April 25, 2004, 01:46:09 PM
Post by: Greg Youngman on April 25, 2004, 02:15:06 PM
Your recording even sounded good on the crappy little spaekers on my internet machine. I transfered the mp3 into the studio and it sounds very nice. Good job! Also, you're fortunate to have some good community players.
I'm wondering how much time you had for mic setup/listening before hitting record?
TNX
Post by: sstillwell on April 25, 2004, 07:02:35 PM
Well, We had about a day and a half to set up everything...PA, lights, recording.
We had approximately 10 minutes to soundcheck and get levels before we had to clear stage before the concert.
Soundcheck supposedly was at 7:00, seating at 7:30, concert at 8:00. It was more like 7:15, 7:20, 8:05...nothing ever follows schedule.
I'm glad you liked the players; I'm one of them! Not a very good one, but I play second violin. Actually my first instrument, but I've been playing bass guitar for most of the past 20 years. When I heard the orchestra was forming, I got out the violin and started practicing like mad for a month or so before auditions. I guess it worked
Regards,
Scott Stillwell
Post by: Han S. on April 29, 2004, 07:32:10 AM
If I'm right the 603's are 'wide' cardioids, therefore I would like to place them on an ORTF placement, which would give you an even more realistic stereo image.
In any case, I'm gonna get a pair of them 603's.
Post by: sstillwell on April 29, 2004, 12:16:29 PM
I thought about using ORTF, but my thought was that XY would be more mono-compatible. I haven't used ORTF before, though I've read about it quite a bit. I generally feel more comfortable with coincident techniques rather than near-coincident for minimalist recordings.
Given that I had next to zero time to set up mic positioning for the orchestra, I also felt that XY was the safer choice, since it's almost impossible to get XY badly wrong. As long as the mics are in the ballpark of the right location, you should get a mostly ok recording. At least that was the logic I was going by...flawed or not.
I think I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but what I REALLY would have liked to try was MS recording, but I didn't have the mic setup for it.
Scott
Post by: seriousfun on April 30, 2004, 03:37:38 PM
They stood up very well next to the classic, expensive, brand-name mics. They fit in the mix. They presented to barrier to the musicians thinking they were stuck with cheap mics.
Highly recommended.