mitgong wrote on Thu, 05 July 2007 16:42 |
No surprises on the setup. |
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i can't believe there's not a spot mic on that cowbell. |
j.hall wrote on Thu, 05 July 2007 16:48 | ||
i'd honestly prefer some surprises. every drummer, every drum kit, every song tracked identically? |
pete andrews wrote on Fri, 06 July 2007 09:06 | ||
maybe there's a piezo pickup in it. -pete |
pg666 wrote on Fri, 06 July 2007 10:55 |
well, it isn't exactly the same, i know he uses the Sony C37 on the snare quite a bit.. |
xonlocust wrote on Sat, 07 July 2007 18:45 |
looks like the Neumann 563 w/N55k capsule |
don kerce wrote on Sat, 07 July 2007 17:24 |
http://radmonkeycowbells.com/ d |
Greg Dixon wrote on Sun, 08 July 2007 18:50 |
He's using a lot more mics than I would expect from someone who's such a purist. Not a criticism, just an observation. |
RSettee wrote on Mon, 09 July 2007 06:59 |
I was actually surprised at the minimal mic setup from Steve. I've heard that he puts up to 30 mics on some drum set recordings that he's done. Apparently on Nirvana's "In Utero", he did this. |
Fibes wrote on Mon, 09 July 2007 12:54 |
I dunno, a purist appraoch to micing a kit would mean you hear on the recording what was going on in the room. Putting mics on the top and the bottom of toms makes sense because you hear both heads in the room don't you? While I find it nice to see what other guys are doing this really isn't a big deal to me. Just like when people brag about how they got Steve to record them and people seem so impressed. He's just like the rest of us, you can work with him if you pay him. Please note that there are no opinions in this post about Steve's drum sounds. Glad putting drums in a corner works for somebody. |
j.hall wrote on Mon, 09 July 2007 12:12 |
30 drum mics?????????? for the drum sounds he gets, he probably only needs 3....maybe 8 |
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Anyhoo, when i hear "did you hear that SA has agreed to record band x" I just gotta laugh 'cause i know that money and enough lead time in booking is all it takes. Does that mean it's not a good thing? No, not at all, it's just not like being knighted or something... |
pg666 wrote on Mon, 09 July 2007 16:12 | ||
there was a pretty average local band (well, they used to be local to me) who made a record with SA maybe 5 years ago and were sorta playing it up in zine interviews at the time. "well, we sent him a demo and he really dug it!". it says right on the EA page you don't need to send them a demo to record there, hehe. |
j.hall wrote on Tue, 10 July 2007 03:12 |
30 drum mics?????????? for the drum sounds he gets, he probably only needs 3....maybe 8 |
spoon wrote on Tue, 10 July 2007 04:47 |
I guess the real deal is it is giving him/them options for mixdown. |
Greg Dixon wrote on Mon, 09 July 2007 18:25 |
Agreed. I have nothing against Steve and some of my attitudes towards recording, are quite similar. Overall though, I find his recordings (and I haven't heard that many) a bit muddled and indistinct. I wish he'd have used more eq and compression to minimize the murk and add a bit of punch. |
mitgong wrote on Mon, 09 July 2007 19:25 |
I certainly didn't mean to brag (and I got nothing to brag about that weekend, believe me). |
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i'll add this. i've heard multi tracks from the in utero sessions and if i remember correctly, there are 10 mics on the kit. the room mics sounded amazing, everything else was pretty sub-par. |
j.hall wrote on Tue, 10 July 2007 11:57 | ||
i've never recorded with steve, and can't say that i will. without steve present it's really useless to get into it. and honestly, he knows how i feel about his methodologies. i couldn't care any less what he does or doesn't do. he's made countless more records then i have and to be completely honest, i think that matters more then my opinion of his work. i'm a shellac fan, but i'd say that i avoid records with his name on them, other then shellac. steve is very intellegent, and understand the theory and science of sound and recording better then most engineers. i respect him for not backing down for what he believes in, i just don't agree with what he believes in. i'll add this. i've heard multi tracks from the in utero sessions and if i remember correctly, there are 10 mics on the kit. the room mics sounded amazing, everything else was pretty sub-par. |
Red Tape wrote on Wed, 11 July 2007 06:28 |
Are these In Utero multitracks available to mere mortals? |
scottoliphant wrote on Wed, 11 July 2007 08:34 |
next imp |
j.hall wrote on Tue, 10 July 2007 12:57 |
i've heard multi tracks from the in utero sessions and if i remember correctly, there are 10 mics on the kit. |
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For what it's worth I think the drums on In Utero sound spectacular, so it might be a matter of taste. Or the fact that none of these tracks was meant to be used on its own. |
M Carter wrote on Wed, 11 July 2007 12:22 |
I don't see how it matters what the close mics sound like individually if the whole kit comes together in the end anyway.... Matt |
M Carter wrote on Wed, 11 July 2007 13:22 |
I don't see how it matters what the close mics sound like individually if the whole kit comes together in the end anyway.... Matt |
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I thought Title TK (Breeders) came out swimmingly though. Nice drum sounds, in particular. |
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ok, i just went to iTunes and listened to the samples of that Zao record he made last year. still not impressed, nor interested. tell me the "best' sounding SA record and i'll go check it out with an open mind. |
jimmyjazz wrote on Wed, 11 July 2007 19:13 |
I think it's really poor form to criticize (alleged) raw tracks from a record that turned out pretty well, and which was a big commercial and critical success. Do you think it's possible that Steve Albini had something else in mind for those tracks that you can't conceive as being useful in a final mix? Have you never recorded close-miced tracks that turned out useless in a final mix? I find it reprehensible to presume that one knows what was used, what was discarded, and furthermore to judge the trees when the forest is beautiful. That's not consistent with the spirit of engineering a good record . . . not at all. |
j.hall wrote on Wed, 11 July 2007 17:50 |
ok, i just went to iTunes and listened to the samples of that Zao record he made last year. still not impressed, nor interested. tell me the "best' sounding SA record and i'll go check it out with an open mind. |
The Octopus wrote on Wed, 11 July 2007 17:52 |
The Jesus Lizard's "Down" |
Fibes wrote on Thu, 12 July 2007 00:50 | ||
That Low record he did is a good one. Visionary band, transparent engineer. When it works it works. |
Andy Peters wrote on Sun, 15 July 2007 21:08 |
Not as good as Goat, so don't get your hopes up, Cheese. -a |
RSettee wrote on Tue, 17 July 2007 13:54 |
There's more, but that's just what I can think of off the top of my head. IMHO, he usually could need a mixing engineer, because his mixing levels are pretty inconsistent. In his own words, he's not a producer, and he chooses really to leave the original mix levels when tracking--so i'd say that he isn't really a mixing engineer, anyways. The new Stooges album sounds terrible (sorry Steve!). |
j.hall wrote on Wed, 11 July 2007 22:50 |
tell me the "best' sounding SA record and i'll go check it out with an open mind. |
The Octopus wrote on Tue, 17 July 2007 13:39 |
I think the inconsistency is more based on the different preferences of the bands he records than on a lackadaisical approach to mixing (e.g. leaving the faders how they were during tracking). Jeremy |
M Carter wrote on Sun, 22 July 2007 23:11 |
I'd sure love Steve to mix shitcopter.... |
compasspnt wrote on Mon, 23 July 2007 12:52 |
I'd like for you to move that guitar. |
J-Texas wrote on Sun, 22 July 2007 23:33 |
...He makes a very good argument, ... |
RSettee wrote on Mon, 23 July 2007 00:30 |
..., as much as he really just stays out of the way. As far as i've been told and what he's said, he leaves alot of the fussing up to the band and just records them.... I do believe that he's admitted that he has a certain sonic imprint, though he really just goes in and gives bands what they want, rather than some producer suggesting alot of things. ... |
wwittman wrote on Thu, 26 July 2007 19:43 |
he does? I must have missed it. |
ballison wrote on Thu, 26 July 2007 15:53 |
Compass point edition haha |
compasspnt wrote on Thu, 26 July 2007 18:11 |
Most excellent. I will soon add that to our website! oh, with the permission of Baddo, of course |
J-Texas wrote on Thu, 26 July 2007 22:04 | ||
Bitter? I won't be going there... |
wwittman wrote on Sun, 29 July 2007 00:27 | ||||
bitter??? hardly Well I used to be disgusted, but now I try to be amused... as someone once said. |
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metal and hard-rock records are becoming so homogeneous. everyone is using the same drum samples and amps. the two bands greg mentioned (Mastodon and Pantera) actually have a recognizable sound compared to most of the crap i hear when i flip my sirius to the hardattack, octane or buzzsaw channels. |
wwittman wrote on Thu, 26 July 2007 19:45 | ||
yeah. doesn't it SUCK when the producer actually tries to HELP the band? |
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Aren't the bricks in Steve's studio worth something insane to buy them? It's some rare terracotta or something. |
dconstruction wrote on Thu, 02 August 2007 12:50 |
Funny you should mention Chainsaw Kittens. Going to see Tyson Meade play with local Dallas band Red Monroe tonight. Red Monroe's quite excited. http://www.myspace.com/redmonroe http://www.myspace.com/chainsawkittensrock L |
pg666 wrote on Thu, 02 August 2007 14:04 |
i also doubt bands like Rapeman and Scratch Acid were trying to sound like the Pixies.. |
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Also, Tweez and Pod are the same drummer FWIW. |
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Rsettee, I think you have the wrong idea about Steve's work with the Pixies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfer_Rosa Budget = $11,500 Days = 10 Label = 4AD (No Elektra yet, not a major) I remember cassette copies that just said 4AD/Rough Trade, so this part I know for certain is true. It was re-released by Elektra later on. |
RSettee wrote on Thu, 02 August 2007 23:37 |
Hell, they sounded better than most major label bands at that time--because it was a really in your face sound, without being really overprocessed in those days of horrible gated drums and long tail reverbs that really dated recordings. I mean, that's why those Pixies records stand up well even by today's standards, because they elevated the sound and possibilities from smaller budgets. When I mentioned "big budget", I thought that they did the album for 20-30 grand (big budget for a small indie label/ band), but actually, it being just over 11 grand really emphasizes what Steve really did for bands and his own rep, at that point. |
bradwood wrote on Fri, 03 August 2007 11:15 |
Those guys were in marked contrast to the tools we worked for who would literally cover the console with track sheets so you couldn't see their eq or compression settings & would stonewall every question. This job of recording is a damn mystery & Steve has helped dispel a lot of the myths about the process. |
bradwood wrote on Fri, 03 August 2007 11:15 |
Thanks, RSettee, for putting some perspective on SA's contributions. Its easy to forget how awful most recordings sounded in the late 80's (awful to these ears, anyway). It was amazing to see Husker Du live & experience their full power compared to their records. New Day Rising was an improvement, but I still reached for the bass control on whatever stereo it was playing on. Steve's, Butch Vig's & Iain Burgess' recordings were the rays of hope in a pretty bleak landscape. Its not easy at all to capture loud guitars, loud bass, loud drums & loud vocals accurately- I've tried for 20 years & I still feel inadequate at times. When Brian Deck & I started our studio in 1988, we wrestled, as any recordist does, with how to deal with extreme volume & dynamics. Steve & Iain were gracious with answers to every stupid question we bothered them with (until Iain moved to France & started living the good life). Those guys were in marked contrast to the tools we worked for who would literally cover the console with track sheets so you couldn't see their eq or compression settings & would stonewall every question. This job of recording is a damn mystery & Steve has helped dispel a lot of the myths about the process. Do I like every record Steve's recorded? Not by a long shot, but I can't forget the huge contribution he has made to our industry at a time when it really needed it. Thanks again, RSettee, for the reminder. Best- Brad |
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Another guy that did a great job on underground recordings way back, was Brian Paulson--who recorded Slint's "Spiderland", which is arguably one of the greatest sounding records--for 1991, for any year, for any big budget album, let alone a Touch and Go record! His career never really took off, he assisted on some Dino Jr. records, and I didn't see his name on many records other than a Royal Trux album. |
RSettee wrote on Wed, 08 August 2007 10:26I forgot one guy though--Jack Endino...thank him, too. Another guy that did a great job on underground recordings way back, was Brian Paulson--who recorded Slint's "Spiderland", which is arguably one of the greatest [i |
sounding[/i] records--for 1991, for any year, for any big budget album, let alone a Touch and Go record! His career never really took off, he assisted on some Dino Jr. records, and I didn't see his name on many records other than a Royal Trux album. |
mitgong wrote on Wed, 08 August 2007 21:39 |
The studio had a smell I've only ever smelled in other studios. THE SMELL OF FEAR. Just kidding. No stinks. Folks smoke there, though. |
goldstar wrote on Wed, 15 August 2007 17:51 |
Hey, what happened to the reply I read from Albini a few days go? and the one from j? I'm surely not the only one who saw it, am I? Frank |
ted maul wrote on Thu, 16 August 2007 01:05 |
it has been noted, all very shaming. http://www.electrical.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=482853#4828 53 |
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Hey Steve. Well it looks like J.hall not only likes to diss you on his prosoundweb forum and make up Albini quotes that you never said, he apparently is a big fan of CENSORSHIP: See for yourself... http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/18224/0/ He completely deleted your response where you were sticking up for yourself, and left the rest of the thread there with some of his dumbest remarks removed. Do you know the mastering engineer Alan Douches? He has a good story... |
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greg norman wrote: We all do and say stupid things in life. Own up to them. Don't be afraid of yourself. |
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Do you know the mastering engineer Alan Douches? He has a good story... |
ted maul wrote on Thu, 16 August 2007 03:05 |
it has been noted, all very shaming. http://www.electrical.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=482853#4828 53 |
j.hall wrote on Thu, 16 August 2007 18:38 |
here is the deal. i publically appoligized to steve after having a failed memory of past conversations. |
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i'll continue to leave the thread unlocked. |
TheViking wrote on Thu, 16 August 2007 12:13 |
I personally think the bigger man is the one who can admit fault and move on. |
j.hall wrote |
welcome ted, thanks for the first post! |
ted maul wrote on Thu, 16 August 2007 18:22 |
Even if there was no malice intended I think it's dishonest to nip and tuck a debate (sweeping other contributors away in the process) because you're unhappy with how it reflects on you. |
electrical wrote on Thu, 16 August 2007 18:17 |
No you didn't. You said some bullshit about there being "room for interpretation" or something (I'd quote it for you but I can't find it right now), instead of saying you were sorry, or even something like, "I have a chip on my shoulder about this guy and I made some shit up so I could make fun of him." |
j.hall wrote on Thu, 16 August 2007 20:31 | ||
seems like a no win with you, but i'll give it a second shot: Dear Steve Albini, Please accept my sincerest apology for spreading misinformation about you on my forum. |
j.hall wrote on Thu, 16 August 2007 17:07 | ||
i didn't do it because of how it reflected on me. but i doubt you'll believe that |
bblackwood wrote on Sat, 18 August 2007 20:46 |
Guys, I think we've used j.hall as a punching bag long enough - I've known him longer than most here and consider him one of my best friends, and I know him well enough to know that when he edited this thread, he did so hoping the topic could continue without the distraction he caused with his failing memory (he is getting old). I know him well enough he did so not in an effort to 'cover his butt' but in an effort to increase the S/N. And yes, he's human enough to not have thought it through to realize how it might look to people looking for conspiracies. |
Fibes wrote on Tue, 21 August 2007 11:14 |
Chance, Why did you bring this back up? It could've dropped away. Sorry, just my POV. |