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R/E/P => R/E/P Archives => Brad Blackwood => Topic started by: carlsaff on August 30, 2005, 10:00:57 AM

Title: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: carlsaff on August 30, 2005, 10:00:57 AM
Hello --

I got into a bit of a debate with an audiophile friend the other day. Well, not so much a debate, as much as a conversation about his impressions after purchasing an incredible new all-tube power amp. I haven't heard the beast yet, but he claims that while there is no obvious "euphonic," "tubey" aspect to the new power amp's sound, he also feels very strongly that soundstaging and detail are vastly superior when using this new all-tube design than with any of his (long, long list) of high-end solid state amps.

I've always assumed that I should stick with solid state amps for my mastering work (settling on a Bryston 4BST this year after using various Haflers), as I did not want any "euphonic" aspect of a tube amp to make material sound nicer in it's "untouched" form than it really is, and, therefore, steer me in the direction of not touching up what ought be touched up. However, this opinion could be shaped by my admitted lack of exposure to truly high-end tube amplifiers. Most of the ones I've heard have been moldy oldies that definitely were adding... *something* (usually good, but not always!).

I'm wondering what people here think about tubes vs. transistors in the realm of mastering power amps.

Thanks,
Carl
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: bblackwood on August 30, 2005, 10:16:01 AM
Pass Labs X250 here.
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: Riccardo on August 30, 2005, 11:10:33 AM
Bryston SST here.
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: Jerry Tubb on August 30, 2005, 12:30:36 PM
McIntosh MC 2500 Here ! (solid state)

While Tubes can be a beautiful thing, they tend to add a little color, IMO.
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: chrisj on August 30, 2005, 12:50:32 PM
Personally, I am absolutely convinced that you can expand soundstage and depth quite dramatically by applying slew limiting and restrictions on the high and low frequency dynamics of the sound. It's similar to what happens when you hit tape, and for the same reasons- transformer stages, limitations on available energy.

Do that and you get a wonderful soundstage, which is not on the actual recording.

Not for me, thanks, I'd be more interested in minimizing the known problems with transistor circuits (like crossover distortion in Class AB circuits, ringing etc)

I can apply those characteristics digitally, thank you- did it to a very famous Telarc recording (their Firebird, old Soundstream recording) to show them what it would be like (waiting to see what they think of it- Telarc have been busy beavers lately, lot of work to do over there)

I would suggest whatever floats your boat for 'incredibly clean and pure transistor or FET power amp'. Brad, is that Pass Labs amp one of their SET-FET monsters? I'm thinking of making or getting something in the way of a Pass single-ended FET amp, since my big horns are reasonably efficient. What I have is the guts of an old Harman/Kardon, which is acceptable but really nothing that special, even all modded up.
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: robot gigante on August 30, 2005, 01:38:06 PM
This little guy here:

http://www.classeaudio.com/delta/images/CA-2200.jpg
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: Ed Littman on August 30, 2005, 05:05:45 PM
Bryston 14b st

Ed
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: Glenn Bucci on August 30, 2005, 06:13:49 PM
Tubes add color, and at the mastering stage, I would not want that from the amp. I would want a clear clean transparent amp.
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: dcollins on August 30, 2005, 06:21:30 PM
Keef wrote on Tue, 30 August 2005 15:13

Tubes add color, and at the mastering stage, I would not want that from the amp. I would want a clear clean transparent amp.


The best ones are not "euphonic," and are clean clear and transparent!  Unfortunately there are so many designs that intentionally have very high coloration's, but it doesn't extend to all amps.

And, yes, you have to change the tubes periodically.

DC
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: Ed Littman on August 30, 2005, 06:41:00 PM
dcollins wrote on Tue, 30 August 2005 18:21

The best ones are not "euphonic," and are clean clear and transparent!  DC


Yes, thats what i thought. without having the experience my self i was told by a few tube gurus that a well designed tube amp will not sound like "tubes" at all.
Ed
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: dcollins on August 30, 2005, 07:32:27 PM
Ed Littman wrote on Tue, 30 August 2005 15:41


Yes, thats what i thought. without having the experience my self i was told by a few tube gurus that a well designed tube amp will not sound like "tubes" at all.
Ed


Yet another example of contamination of the pro world from the audiophile, with their 3 Watt amps and "intentionally" crippled designs...

DC
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: Bob Olhsson on August 30, 2005, 09:58:47 PM
The idea is to have the CD sound euphoric rather than the monitoring!

Some older speakers such as Altecs sounded much better with tube amps because they had been designed to be driven by a high impedance. Likewise some line stages sound much better driving the high impedance non-load of many tube amps.
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: Bob Boyd on August 30, 2005, 10:31:48 PM
McIntosh MC252
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: Ronny on August 31, 2005, 02:01:19 AM
dcollins wrote on Tue, 30 August 2005 18:21

Keef wrote on Tue, 30 August 2005 15:13

Tubes add color, and at the mastering stage, I would not want that from the amp. I would want a clear clean transparent amp.


The best ones are not "euphonic," and are clean clear and transparent!  Unfortunately there are so many designs that intentionally have very high coloration's, but it doesn't extend to all amps.

And, yes, you have to change the tubes periodically.

DC



I think a lot of that comes from the guitar amp thing, tube amps versus solid state, "that tube sound", so they apply it to all power amps. It's been my experience that most tube power amps with the typical gain control and nothing else, are transparent when the tubes are maintained.


Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: tukul on August 31, 2005, 07:25:21 AM
Greetings,

Crown DC300A

Tukul.
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: Thomas W. Bethel on August 31, 2005, 07:54:45 AM
Bryston 4B and 3B here @ Acoustik Musik.

I auditioned a wonderful tube amplifier here for about a week. Made by a local company called Western Reserve Audio. It sounded really clean and powered my Alon IVs very well. Two problems with the tube amp HEAT and it cost $7500.00. The money I could, if needed, scrape together. The heat is another story. I could literally turn off the heat to my mastering studio and use the amp for a heater in the winter (AC is something else entirely). But the amplifier sounds wonderful and I understand the builder has had a couple of inquires from Mastering facilities, including Telarc, about auditioning it. He does not have a website or I would post it.

The last tube amplifier I had was a Dynaco 70 back in the 70's. It was a nice amplifier and I hand built it from a kit.

I love my Bryston and who can beat a 20 year warranty that is transferable.



Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: Ed Littman on August 31, 2005, 08:01:10 AM
Ronny wrote on Wed, 31 August 2005 02:01

I think a lot of that comes from the guitar amp thing, tube amps versus solid state, "that tube sound", so they apply it to all power amps. It's been my experience that most tube power amps with the typical gain control and nothing else, are transparent when the tubes are maintained.




And most of us know that the attractive tone from a guitar amp comes from pushing the power not the preamp tubes.
i guess some audiophile marketers are closet guitbox slingers too... Very Happy
Ed
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: Spiritwalkerpro on August 31, 2005, 10:04:44 AM
Nice to hear that some of you folks are using Bryston amps, they are a fine Canadian company.  I'm not mastering but run a demo studio and have been monitoring on a 3B or 4B for years.  I sometimes wonder if there is something better, but hey if they ain't broke why replace it!  It's not like I don't have other things to repair and worry about!

Norm
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: carlsaff on August 31, 2005, 10:25:03 AM
I agree -- my Bryston ain't broke! No strong desire to fix it. It's a real amp.

I was just curious if everyone here shared my gut feeling that tube amps don't have a place in the mastering studio, and it seems that most agree with me that save a few exceptionally well-designed (read expensive) models, we're all better off with solid state amps.

Sorry if the topic was a moot point from the get go. What can I say... I was bored.
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: EP on August 31, 2005, 12:32:47 PM
Threshold s350e here. Older, but solid [no pun intended] and was a good deal.

As a side query: anyone listened to the 'new generation' 'digital amps', such as the PowerPhysics modules (used by NHT in their corrected/powered setup) or similar?

Rumor has it that this technology has matured and is on par with the better class A or A/AB amps.......although previously more or less confined to trunk-rattler car stereo installs.....
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: rondr on August 31, 2005, 12:39:49 PM
Bryston 4B SST Pro
Bryston 4B ST consumer
Sonic Frontiers Power 1 Tube amplifier

Ron Rice
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: mastermind on August 31, 2005, 01:33:26 PM
Bryston 7B's for the lows on the Dunlavy's, Bryston 4BSST for the mid/top. Love 'em.

carlsaff wrote on Wed, 31 August 2005 09:25


I was just curious if everyone here shared my gut feeling that tube amps don't have a place in the mastering studio, and it seems that most agree with me that save a few exceptionally well-designed (read expensive) models, we're all better off with solid state amps.


Yup... I agree 100% with that....

best,
t
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: Glenn Bucci on August 31, 2005, 02:23:45 PM
I would not want an tube amp that colors the sound of the music. I can't afford Bryston, but my Carvin amp (though not the same) is very respectable. It is also very clean and transparent.

HEAR THE DIFFERENCE
SUPER CLEAN – less than .1% THD +- 1dB 20 to 20kHz • CRYSTAL CLEAR – TRANSPARENT– doesn’t sound “processed” • HIGH SLEW-RATE – better than 50 volts per
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: bobkatz on August 31, 2005, 07:30:22 PM
I just did another amp shootout against a pair of high end mono blocks, and once again the Pass X250 won. Better depth and space by far, more solid and extended bottom end, effortless dynamic range, drives the difficult Lipinski load, pure tonality without sounding "artificial", revealing. It's a very special amp, has very few rivals. I wouldn't trade it for any tube amp.
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: Doug Van Sloun on August 31, 2005, 10:35:39 PM
Thomas W. Bethel wrote on Wed, 31 August 2005 06:54

Two problems with the tube amp HEAT and it cost $7500.00.


You don't need tubes to put out the BTU's!  My Krell KSA-250 runs class A and keeps the room warm... Wink
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: jazzius on September 01, 2005, 01:15:10 AM
Cello Duet 350 - sometimes i worry it might be a bit euphonic 'cause it sounds so much better then anything else i ever tried!
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: bobkatz on September 01, 2005, 09:38:51 AM
EP wrote on Wed, 31 August 2005 12:32

Threshold s350e here. Older, but solid [no pun intended] and was a good deal.

As a side query: anyone listened to the 'new generation' 'digital amps', such as the PowerPhysics modules (used by NHT in their corrected/powered setup) or similar?

Rumor has it that this technology has matured and is on par with the better class A or A/AB amps.......although previously more or less confined to trunk-rattler car stereo installs.....



I tested a Digital amp during my search for amp Nirvana a few years ago. I've temporarily forgotten the brand name. I liked the midrange and top, it was quite nice, nearly as nice as the Pass's top end and certainly acceptable. Better than any class AB I had compared it with, including a Bryston 5. The Lipinski speakers are so revealing of any crossover distortion that it is useful to get a class A amp. I could have lived with the Bryston, by the way. We're talking fine levels of differences. But if you have very particular tastes, then at least so far, no class AB amp seemed came up to the sound of the Pass. Maybe a Bryston 7, I never tried that.

But the bottom end of the digital amp was not as extended or tight as that of the Pass. I attribute this to power supply design; I was testing a stereo digital amp and their mono model (costing twice as much, of course) might have been a contender against the Pass. In short: Yes, digital amps have come a long way. Depending on the power draw of your loudspeakers and how well you match it to the amp, you may find a digital amp would be very nice.

One EXTREMELY attractive thing about the digital amp... it idles at very low current and is extremely economical. Runs cool. The Pass, on the other hand, has been heating up the control room and emptying our wallets for a couple of years now.

We have a $400-500 a month electric bill here, running several rooms, all with computers and audio gear and A/C on 24 hours a day.

BK
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: D Harris on September 01, 2005, 09:56:50 AM
I'm using Cello Perfomance II mono blocks here.
Class A and could probably heat the whole building.
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: ammitsboel on September 01, 2005, 10:50:49 AM
Both valve amps and transistor amps will colour the sound and you can't generalize on which type is more coloring than the other. What irritates you the least if often what you choose. When people go wrong is when they chose out from the idea of what they think is revealing.

When I talk to people that uses transistor amps I often hear comments about the bass, mid range, treble, depth, image and etc...
When I talk to people that uses valve amplifiers I often hear comments about the music and the sound all together.
This is the majority though, occasionally I will hear specific comments from valve amp users and vice versa.  

I honestly think that the line "order is the great deceiver of man" plays a great role in what we chose. This probably makes us more secure about our choice, but doesn't really make our choice better.

Best Regards
Henrik
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: jdunn on September 02, 2005, 01:25:10 AM
EP wrote on Wed, 31 August 2005 09:32


As a side query: anyone listened to the 'new generation' 'digital amps', such as the PowerPhysics modules (used by NHT in their corrected/powered setup) or similar?

Rumor has it that this technology has matured and is on par with the better class A or A/AB amps.......although previously more or less confined to trunk-rattler car stereo installs.....


I've heard the Power Physics amps, and they're really pretty good.  You might not know it's a Class D PWM amp if you weren't told.

I didn't know NHT used them.  The guy who built my speakers uses them, and the active version of my speakers uses them.  They're constanly improving the Power Physics amps, so they probably sound even better than I remember at this point.

I just ordered a Chord myself though.
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: e-cue on September 02, 2005, 02:20:24 AM
Does anyone know of any mastering house that uses tube amps on their mains (not a lounge or secondary system)?

I seem to remember one of the guys at Precision had some Manley tube amp on his mains.  Last time I was there, I forgot to ask.  Since the tube category seems to be such a minority in this thread, I'm curious as to which places can be used as examples.
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: JGreenslade on September 02, 2005, 05:01:12 AM
The Exchange use custom EAR mono-blocks based on the EAR 509.

Taken from: http://www.ear-yoshino.com/news/news.asp?ID=79
Quote:


In 1985, de Paravicini introduced his new record cutting system. Now installed at ‘The Exchange’ in the heart of London, (originally Island Records ‘Sound Clinic’ facility). This is phase corrected, and uses in excess of 1,000 watts of tube audio power, based on the classic EAR 509 circuit.


edit: The above quote is probably referring to the cutter-head amps - the mains are powered via 6550-based blocks, and I'm 99% sure they're based on the 509.

I've attended numerous sessions at The Exchange and can state for a fact that the valve amps sound totally uncoloured, with a hell of a lot of kick in the LF region.

In all honesty, I find the cliche of valve amps sounding "coloured" compared to solid-state to be inaccurate and misleading... I can only assume people are basing their opinions on ancient equipment that needs re-capping or has poorly designed transformers.... Valves are transconductance devices, just as fets are - to state that valves sound "coloured" by default compared to their modern counterparts would be to make a gross generalisation. BTW, Hi-Fi dealers have complained to me that their clients find Tim de P's valve amps "too clinical" - I can only conclude he's too good at his job...

Taken from: http://www.ear-usa.com/timdeparavicini.htm
Quote:



The "warmth" in a lot of tube electronics is due to their dismal top end, the bad transformers they use, and the loading down of their high-impedance outputs. Because of the output transformer and the feedback used, many tube circuits have a partial bass instability that gives a bloated bass. Any warmth in the tube sound is a defect, but listeners don't want to know that.

I don't have to use tubes in my designs; I only do it for marketing reasons. I've got an exact equivalent in solid state. I can make either type do the same job, and I have no preference. People can't pick which is which. And electrons have no memory of where they've been! The end result is what counts.



The 2nd to last statement says it all really...

Justin
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: bblackwood on September 02, 2005, 05:56:48 AM
e-cue wrote on Fri, 02 September 2005 01:20

Does anyone know of any mastering house that uses tube amps on their mains (not a lounge or secondary system)?

I seem to remember one of the guys at Precision had some Manley tube amp on his mains.  Last time I was there, I forgot to ask.  Since the tube category seems to be such a minority in this thread, I'm curious as to which places can be used as examples.

IIRC, a couple of rooms at Precision use them and Greg Calbi does as well. That's all I've been able to come up with here in the states...
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: Mark Wilder on September 02, 2005, 01:55:41 PM
Greg uses Audio Research.  I think Doug still uses his Sherwood Sax on the mains.  I was bi-amped with Sherwood's for a long time, but the change-over to surround has forced a change.  I'm now on Spectrals.  10 sets of tubes each year was a little rough to swallow even on Sony Dollars.  My bud down the hall, Vic Anesini is on Sherwood's Bi-Amped.
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: mike chafee on September 02, 2005, 04:51:09 PM
Mark Wilder wrote on Fri, 02 September 2005 13:55

Greg uses Audio Research.  I think Doug still uses his Sherwood Sax on the mains.  I was bi-amped with Sherwood's for a long time, but the change-over to surround has forced a change.  I'm now on Spectrals.  10 sets of tubes each year was a little rough to swallow even on Sony Dollars.  My bud down the hall, Vic Anesini is on Sherwood's Bi-Amped.



Hey, Mark,
Good to see you here.
Four years ago, after an AES tour of the Sony facility, you were kind enough to sit me at your mix posotion and play several tunes -  Toto, Africa-  (Maybe you remember I lost it!)   Miles, Kind of Blue  etc.

As I recall, you were usind Dunlavys, Cello Pallette, Millenia, Meitner? your sound raised the bar on my expectations considerably, and enabled me to up my game several notches. THANK YOU!

What is your current setup, if you please.

Mike Chafee
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: Bodyslam on September 03, 2005, 02:20:31 AM
e-cue wrote on Thu, 01 September 2005 23:20

Does anyone know of any mastering house that uses tube amps on their mains (not a lounge or secondary system)?



I'm using tube amps on my main monitors.

I've heard plenty of tube amps with colorations over the years, but the ones I'm using now I would describe as very very low in coloration...at least as low as any solid state amp I've heard.

On the mains in my room: Exemplar Audio

In another system I use regularly: EAR 549's

Of course in other rooms we're using solid state (Pass Labs, and the Meyer speakers have their own amps) so we don't discriminate against the thermionically-challenged.
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: Sonovo on September 06, 2005, 02:50:47 AM
I'm actually using a digital amp these days (solid state) after using a hybrid valve design (Copland). A break in at the studio necessitated a new amp, and the Copland I was using had been discontinued (unfortunately, as I was very satsified with it) in favour of a newer model.

I was pretty sceptical about using a digital amp, but after A/B'ing quite a few contenders (Bryston, Electrocompaniet, Class
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: bobkatz on September 06, 2005, 04:46:47 PM
Thor Legvold wrote on Tue, 06 September 2005 02:50


The amp I ended up with is a "bel canto eVo 4" (I run mine in bridged mono, the eVo 4 has 4 mono channels at 150W).

Funny enough bel canto  got their reputation by building valve (tube) gear.

http://www.belcantodesign.com/prod_evo4.html

Thor



That's it! Bel Canto was the amp I favorably reviewed when I was putting it up against the Pass. It's a very good-sounding amp. The Pass is better, but you're paying for a LOT of BEEF!

BK
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: ammitsboel on September 07, 2005, 09:25:13 AM
bobkatz wrote on Tue, 06 September 2005 21:46

Thor Legvold wrote on Tue, 06 September 2005 02:50


The amp I ended up with is a "bel canto eVo 4" (I run mine in bridged mono, the eVo 4 has 4 mono channels at 150W).

Funny enough bel canto  got their reputation by building valve (tube) gear.

http://www.belcantodesign.com/prod_evo4.html

Thor



That's it! Bel Canto was the amp I favorably reviewed when I was putting it up against the Pass. It's a very good-sounding amp. The Pass is better, but you're paying for a LOT of BEEF!

I build one a few years ago with a bigger Tripath chip than the Bel Canto.
It sounded ok.

Best Regards
Henrik
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: carlos jaramillo on November 28, 2005, 05:20:43 PM
dcollins wrote on Wed, 31 August 2005 00:21

Keef wrote on Tue, 30 August 2005 15:13

Tubes add color, and at the mastering stage, I would not want that from the amp. I would want a clear clean transparent amp.


The best ones are not "euphonic," and are clean clear and transparent!  Unfortunately there are so many designs that intentionally have very high coloration's, but it doesn't extend to all amps.

And, yes, you have to change the tubes periodically.

DC


can t be more certain than that. can it?
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: thephatboi on November 28, 2005, 08:01:35 PM
I use a Bryston 4B NRB (from 1992!) IMO tube amps are great to listen to by the end user but not for critical monitoring. My Bryston was made in the early nineties and still has 7 years left on the warranty, AND I even thought it sounded better than the newer Brystons (ST) So I considered it a bargain, and my mixes are translating perfectly, that's all I want.
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: Tomás Mulcahy on November 29, 2005, 09:23:37 AM
Anyone using active speakers? I use a humble Quad 405 with some simple upgrades, and Lentek S4 speakers. A very unforgiving accuracy with this system. I would prefer big PMCs, they're the best thing I ever heard with the "bundled" Dutch amp they supply in the UK/ Ireland.
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: Mark Wilder on November 29, 2005, 05:23:53 PM
mike chafee wrote on Fri, 02 September 2005 16:51


Four years ago, after an AES tour of the Sony facility, you were kind enough to sit me at your mix posotion and play several tunes -  Toto, Africa-  (Maybe you remember I lost it!)   Miles, Kind of Blue  etc.

As I recall, you were usind Dunlavys, Cello Pallette, Millenia, Meitner? your sound raised the bar on my expectations considerably, and enabled me to up my game several notches. THANK YOU!

What is your current setup, if you please.

Mike Chafee


Hello Mike,


Sorry for the delay, I guess I just missed this one.

Yes I do remember our listening session.  I always get a kick out of doing playbacks for people.  Listening to masters is a very different experience.

As for my setup, I actually have Duntech's (Princess), 3 across the front (still on the concrete plinths) and a pair of Duntech Marquis' in the rear.  After the Sax's, they were powered by Spectral's for a bit, but I''ve flipped over to Krell FPB 300c's.  The Cello Pallette is gone and replaced by an SPL desk.

Maybe I had a Millenia in the room when you stopped by but it's not a permanent fixture.  It's GML, Lavry, HDCD, and a floating Meitner.  


I'm glad I could give you some momentum.

Again, sorry for the delay.
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: Rivendell61 on November 30, 2005, 08:24:57 AM
With the talk of ‘digital’ amps I thought this might be of some interest:

Some of you know Bruno Putzeys from his DSD Converter, Grimm Audio, etc.  Not sure if you know of  the amplifiers he designs?  
The Hypex UcD (Class D) is eminently suitable for mastering—just ask him. Cool  
His primary design goal was full-range neutrality/transparency so they have resolved the few areas problematic with most other Class D (Tripath Bel Canto, etc).  There is a pile of info on this—but I won’t bore you.  Hypex amps can be used in either ‘active’ speaker applications, or as power amp monoblocks.  There are three versions, with varying power output.

Here are some links if anyone wants to look further:
This is the data sheet for BP’s Hypex ‘400’ amplifier module (performance graphs at bottom of page)
http://www.hypex.nl/docs/UcD400_datasheet.pdf
(note, e.g.,  the THD vs Freq. plot—ruler flat)

A US company that direct sells (US built) mono-blocks using the Hypex modules:
http://www.ciaudio.com/D200.html
Essentially, they provide the power supply and box.

And if you are really interested….here is a B. Putzey’s paper about the amplifier, given to AES in the spring of 2005:  http://www.hypex.nl/docs/document.pdf

I hope that did not seem too much like an advert.  
Just thought some of you might be interested.  I have no connection!.... although I listen at home via a Benchmark feeding a set of the the Hypex/D100 mono blocks.

Mark Matthewman


Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: bblackwood on November 30, 2005, 09:09:06 AM
Rivendell61 wrote on Wed, 30 November 2005 07:24

With the talk of ?digital? amps I thought this might be of some interest:

Some of you know Bruno Putzeys from his DSD Converter, Grimm Audio, etc.  Not sure if you know of  the amplifiers he designs?  
The Hypex UcD (Class D) is eminently suitable for mastering?just ask him. Cool  
His primary design goal was full-range neutrality/transparency so they have resolved the few areas problematic with most other Class D (Tripath Bel Canto, etc).  There is a pile of info on this?but I won?t bore you.  Hypex amps can be used in either ?active? speaker applications, or as power amp monoblocks.  There are three versions, with varying power output.

Bruno's a smart guy - those amps ought to be worth listening to...
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: chrisj on December 01, 2005, 02:46:10 PM
I want the Channel Islands D-100 (based on Putzeys' designs)

Dunno exactly _when_ I can arrange that, but me want Smile
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: dcollins on December 01, 2005, 08:42:42 PM
Rivendell61 wrote on Wed, 30 November 2005 05:24


This is the data sheet for BP’s Hypex ‘400’ amplifier module (performance graphs at bottom of page)
http://www.hypex.nl/docs/UcD400_datasheet.pdf
(note, e.g.,  the THD vs Freq. plot—ruler flat)



Because he puts the output filter in feedback.  Some thought this was impractical/impossible!


DC
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: bblackwood on December 01, 2005, 09:57:40 PM
I'm interested in trying this BP amp, yet love the Pass so much, I imagine we'll be getting another one at some point.
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: mike chafee on December 01, 2005, 09:59:03 PM
Hi, Mark,

Thanks for the update on your system!

I know you are a perfectionist, and wonder if you could describe the differences the amplifier changes have made in your system.

Thanks,

Mike
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: Mark Wilder on December 02, 2005, 10:20:08 AM
mike chafee wrote on Thu, 01 December 2005 21:59


I know you are a perfectionist, and wonder if you could describe the differences the amplifier changes have made in your system.



I think I mentioned before about the Sax amps and becoming to expensive to maintain.  I listened to a bunch of amps (including the Krell) and as a pure listening experience I ending up with the Spectral 160S.

The honeymoon was over quickly because I felt my work dropped quite a bit.  Even though they were a good listen, I wasn't getting the feedback I needed.

We recently lost an engineer (Darcy Proper) who moved to Belgium to work at Galaxy Studios.  She had a 5.1 setup with Dunlevy and Krell's.  So, I decided to give them another go.  I thought the feedback was vastly better, even over the Sax amps.  My compression work is spot on now, and have much of my bravado back.

They're much faster than the Sax amps, loads of clarity in the bottom, the midband is complete.  I'm still playing with cables.  I'm sure the top will come into focus better once the cables settle in.

Lesson learned...The work system is not the hifi system.  

Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: Bob Olhsson on December 03, 2005, 02:42:32 PM
Mark Wilder wrote on Fri, 02 December 2005 09:20

Lesson learned...The work system is not the hifi system.

This is so important for people to understand.
Title: Re: your power amp: tube or solid state?
Post by: dcollins on December 03, 2005, 10:23:15 PM
Bob Olhsson wrote on Sat, 03 December 2005 11:42

Mark Wilder wrote on Fri, 02 December 2005 09:20

Lesson learned...The work system is not the hifi system.

This is so important for people to understand.



I want the home system to tell me I'm a beautiful genius....

DC