Post by: j.hall on February 03, 2009, 12:07:43 PM
i grabbed one of the singles off iTunes. i don't get it.......it doesn't sound very good to me
am i missing something?
also, the new underoath (mixed by the same guy) sounds bad to me too. seriously, i must be missing something, right?
Post by: rankus on February 03, 2009, 02:40:12 PM
LOL. I have been on the Paramore band wagon for the last year or so ... I know what your saying.
I was mixing a Paramore soundalike band on the weekend and had a Para song on my iPod on one channel of the mixer, and my mix on the other, and was A/B-ing them. At one point I was thinking "my gawd my mix sounds like crap compared to the Paramore song" ...
THEN I realized I had the two sources mixed up in my head and it was the Paramore mix that I thought sounded poor... WOOT! (That was fun!)
I think people are digging Paramore more due to Haley Williams voice than anything tangible (Either that or the horrendous amounts of editing on there!)
Post by: Podgorny on February 03, 2009, 02:41:10 PM
It's not my favorite sound, but it doesn't suck.
Post by: j.hall on February 03, 2009, 02:51:55 PM
A/B underoath's "define the great line" (mixed by CLA) against "lost in the sound....." (mixed by david bendeth)
it's night and day to me.
one sounds open and aggressive, the other sounds choked and cloudy.
i'm not sure i can agree about aggressive pop. the little i've heard of his work, he mixes guitars back.....that's generally counter-productive to "aggressive pop"
Post by: Adam Miller on February 03, 2009, 03:24:52 PM
And that ridiculous snare, that somehow makes me want to air drum along to it. Embarassing, I know...
Post by: Ryan Slowey on February 03, 2009, 03:36:43 PM
| Adam Miller wrote on Tue, 03 February 2009 15:24 |
And that ridiculous snare |
"Ridiculous" is an understatement. When did the snare drum become the most important part of a mix? Jesus it's loud.
Post by: j.hall on February 03, 2009, 05:23:42 PM
Post by: rankus on February 03, 2009, 05:42:50 PM
| Adam Miller wrote on Tue, 03 February 2009 12:24 |
And that ridiculous snare, |
I was going to mention that too... Look for a better sample David. He also has her vocal tucked in a bit much for my tastes (on the first album anyway)
| J Hall wrote on Tue, 03 February 2009 12:24 |
i'm not sure, but current pop and rock production, the snare is right there with the lead vocal. |
For sure!
Post by: Adam Miller on February 03, 2009, 06:29:43 PM
| j.hall wrote on Tue, 03 February 2009 22:23 |
i'm not sure, but current pop and rock production, the snare is right there with the lead vocal. |
Yeah, but this one is just a brazen 2-fingered salute to any pretense of taste and restraint, and for that reason alone makes me grin in a childish way every time I hear it
Post by: beau on February 04, 2009, 12:28:09 AM
| j.hall wrote on Tue, 03 February 2009 11:51 |
not saying the guy sucks, i just don't get the hype. A/B underoath's "define the great line" (mixed by CLA) against "lost in the sound....." (mixed by david bendeth) it's night and day to me. one sounds open and aggressive, the other sounds choked and cloudy. i'm not sure i can agree about aggressive pop. the little i've heard of his work, he mixes guitars back.....that's generally counter-productive to "aggressive pop" |
i couldn't agree more... i actually got flamed by bendeth himself on another forum for saying that.
i think his mixes are pretty synthetic and average.. nothing worth paying that kind of money for.
peace
beau
Post by: Ryan Slowey on February 04, 2009, 09:57:04 AM
| beau wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 00:28 | ||
i couldn't agree more... i think his mixes are pretty synthetic and average.. nothing worth paying that kind of money for. peace beau |
+1. I typed a response, but this sums it up more susinctly.
Post by: j.hall on February 04, 2009, 10:02:37 AM
then again, i can't say that the vast majority of consumers give a crap. it's just interesting that he's the "mixer/producer du jour"
Post by: paul101 on February 04, 2009, 07:45:58 PM
Its perfectly designed pop. Its not my personal preference in music, but its a record that is already defining what many younger bands want in their mixes.
Yes the snares ridiculous and there is a huge amount of editing, but it all adds up to something that is so right for this particular genre.
I love vibey, band in a room sounding records, but this is pop music and when has reality played any major role?
Post by: Jonah A. Kort on February 05, 2009, 09:36:24 AM
Post by: Adam Miller on February 05, 2009, 10:22:31 AM
| Jonah A. Kort wrote on Thu, 05 February 2009 14:36 |
I always thought Riot! sounded like garbage... |
Chuck up a link to some of your work then...
Post by: j.hall on February 05, 2009, 11:57:45 AM
| paul101 wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 18:45 |
Sorry but I think your missing the boat on this one. Its perfectly designed pop. Its not my personal preference in music, but its a record that is already defining what many younger bands want in their mixes. Yes the snares ridiculous and there is a huge amount of editing, but it all adds up to something that is so right for this particular genre. I love vibey, band in a room sounding records, but this is pop music and when has reality played any major role? |
this is by far not the first record to have a loud snare. in fact that trend has exosted for quite a while now.
if this record is what "young" bands are looking to for their production notes, so be it.
it still doesn't mean it sounds good.
i guess all i'm saying is, i'm surprised this record has had the impact it has on a sonic level. i have little, in fact VERY little to say about the songs as i've only heard two of them.....
there is a consistent cloudy, choked sound to bendeth's work that i'm honestly surprised has become the "mix du jour" when there are guys probably charging the same rates that can get bigger sounding mixes that feel open and clean. it's merely an observation, and i was only wondering if others had the same observation.
Post by: Jonah A. Kort on February 06, 2009, 12:22:39 AM
...
Got nothing for that...
I am humbled...
Post by: mattrussell on February 06, 2009, 06:11:16 PM
Post by: Nacho on May 08, 2009, 06:07:40 PM
| j.hall wrote on Tue, 03 February 2009 12:07 |
i got sick of clients commenting on the how awesome the latest Paramore record sounds without knowing what it sounds like myself. i grabbed one of the singles off iTunes. i don't get it.......it doesn't sound very good to me am i missing something? also, the new underoath (mixed by the same guy) sounds bad to me too. seriously, i must be missing something, right? |
+1
Post by: Phillip Graham on May 15, 2009, 12:45:42 AM
| j.hall wrote on Tue, 03 February 2009 12:07 |
i got sick of clients commenting on the how awesome the latest Paramore record sounds without knowing what it sounds like myself. i grabbed one of the singles off iTunes. i don't get it.......it doesn't sound very good to me am i missing something? also, the new underoath (mixed by the same guy) sounds bad to me too. seriously, i must be missing something, right? |
So tonight Pandora played a track for me that sounded a lot like Paramore--not sure how it got there from "Within Temptation" but anyways.
The band is called Firelight, sound like just like Paramore. However the mix totally kicks butt! Mixed by J.R. McNeeley.
Try "Stand Up" by Fireflight from Amazon or iTunes, its what Paramore wanted their record to sound like, but didn't know it
Post by: carmoleh on October 11, 2009, 06:23:26 AM
Post by: Josh McArdle on October 27, 2009, 06:39:36 PM
Personally I like the energy and I'd love to be able to produce a sound that good, but it's not the holy grail for me by a long shot...
On a side note has anyone else heard Wolves by Idiot Pilot? Big fan of the production on that album. I think it was Ross Robinson, not sure if he did the mix though.
Post by: j.hall on October 29, 2009, 12:42:00 PM
it might as well be a drum machine. i mean, that's fine if you are going for a mechanical sound. but they are clearly a rock band.
if that sound is what the upcoming generation of mixers is calling "the holy grail" then i'm sorely disappointed.
listen to some of Bob Clearmountain's work.
in fact, here's a list of truly gifted, amazing mixers, that rarely do "subpar" work.
Bob Clearmountain
Tchad Blake
Mike Shipley
Randy Staub
Rich Costey
Chris Lord-Alge
Tom Lord-Alge
JR McNeally
F Reid Shippen
the list goes on and on......
hit some of these guys' all music pages, buy a few songs off albums you think you can stomach/dig. make that your holy grail.
in fact, you might hate buying it, and you might hate the music, but Nickelback's latest album is easily one of the sickest sounding records i've ever heard. EVER!!!!
Post by: iCombs on October 29, 2009, 03:08:21 PM
I DO agree that Randy Staub is one HELL of an engineer...and I think his work is probably better represented on their earlier stuff.
IM(incredibly biased)O.
Post by: j.hall on October 29, 2009, 05:26:43 PM
just heard from a good source that Maroon 5 is over in Switzerland (is that where Mutt's place is) doing their next record with him......i can stomach that band much easier.
Post by: iCombs on October 30, 2009, 01:42:41 AM
And God help me, I'm honestly not a fan of his uber-processed vocals...there's something that just sounds WEIRD that I can't get my head around...but it sounds totally unnatural to me and seems to only get more and more prominent as the years go by.
I could be way off base, but that's what I'm hearing in the radio singles that I know are his.
Post by: j.hall on October 30, 2009, 10:52:21 AM
other then that, i'm not hearing hysteria on the new nickelback. seriously though, put on something you think is the best sounding mix ever. literally, a mix you think is absolutely flawless, then switch over (same monitoring chain required) to something off that record. so far, it's made every mix i ref sound small and narrow.
you might not dig what he does (and i'm not saying i do or don't) but you have to respect his body of work. he is, indeed, an extremely talented person.
as a side note, you don't see him getting tons of repeat clients......i'd venture a guess that his obsessive perfectionism can get a bit overwhelming.
Post by: iCombs on October 30, 2009, 01:16:01 PM
As far as repeat clientele...I dunno...he may or may have not done 4 records for Def Leppard and at least 2 for AC/DC...but i definitely see how bands seem to get really tired of the sort of endless production process...I know I'd be fucking depressed if I spent 4 years making one record (see Hysteria)...granted, I probably wouldn't be depressed about selling 800 squintillion records...but man...that's just...a long, long time.
Post by: Josh McArdle on October 30, 2009, 05:51:41 PM
| j.hall wrote on Thu, 29 October 2009 11:42 |
Bob Clearmountain Tchad Blake Mike Shipley Randy Staub Rich Costey Chris Lord-Alge Tom Lord-Alge JR McNeally F Reid Shippen |
Cheers for the list J, there are a few names on there I've yet to check out.
It's definitely a shame that this kind of production is being heralded as the ultimate goal for a lot of my generation, but then again it seems to be a big seller at the moment. It's also all over the radio... I just find it funny that Bendeth/CLA/Wallace etc. are being paid so much for these mixes knowing full well that it'll end up coming out of a 13 year old's laptop speakers at 128kbps
Sometimes it makes you wonder what the point is!
Post by: j.hall on October 31, 2009, 12:10:33 AM
CLA and Andy Wallace are world class man! i can't believe i left andy off my list. no one can make a mix pump the buss compressor as hard as andy did and still have the mix rule!
anyway, paramore has some catchy songs, that's why it's all over the radio.
laptop speakers or not, good songs always rise to the top.
Post by: Josh McArdle on November 02, 2009, 12:09:19 PM
Post by: j.hall on November 02, 2009, 06:07:00 PM
Post by: Jonah A. Kort on November 04, 2009, 08:30:59 AM
| Josh McArdle wrote on Fri, 30 October 2009 16:51 |
I just find it funny that Bendeth/CLA/Wallace etc. are being paid so much for these mixes knowing full well that it'll end up coming out of a 13 year old's laptop speakers at 128kbps Sometimes it makes you wonder what the point is! |
Really? You wonder why those engineers mixes sound amazing on any system or while being played on any radio station!
That's the point, i believe!
I was listening to a couple of the (low quality) samples on Rich Costey's allmusic, they sounds pretty much the same anywhere else i've heard them including the lowend....
Makes me want to work harder everyday...
Post by: rankus on November 04, 2009, 01:56:43 PM
Yes, getting that low end punch on small crappy speakers is the holy grail for me as well..
Any ideas or tricks that the forum folks cares to share? (perhaps a great new topic for a thread J?)
Post by: j.hall on November 04, 2009, 07:51:51 PM
Post by: rankus on November 05, 2009, 12:46:08 AM
| j.hall wrote on Wed, 04 November 2009 16:51 |
a masterful use of compression. |
I suppose that is a big part of the equation J. These fellows are all known to have rooms full of outboard comps eh
Post by: j.hall on November 05, 2009, 05:36:43 PM
but yeah, to obtain those results, you have to use loads of compression.
Post by: Josh McArdle on November 05, 2009, 11:36:30 PM
| Jonah A. Kort wrote on Wed, 04 November 2009 07:30 | ||
Really? You wonder why those engineers mixes sound amazing on any system or while being played on any radio station! That's the point, i believe! I was listening to a couple of the (low quality) samples on Rich Costey's allmusic, they sounds pretty much the same anywhere else i've heard them including the lowend.... Makes me want to work harder everyday... |
Twas merely a joke
So right though. I heard something about a Bjork album being mixed on laptop speakers! Could well be exaggerated folklore but it's an interesting idea 
Post by: j.hall on November 06, 2009, 10:44:59 AM
Post by: bradwood on November 15, 2009, 12:56:41 PM
Best- Brad
Post by: bradwood on November 15, 2009, 01:35:01 PM
Best- Brad
Post by: grantis on November 17, 2009, 05:09:34 PM
Post by: rankus on December 08, 2009, 09:50:04 PM
I'm just reviewing Paramore's Riot! Album here at the studio and I can hear some fairly obvious flamming between the snare and the snare sample... Probably the reason we were panning the snare sound earlier in the thread!
Post by: j.hall on December 09, 2009, 11:09:52 AM
my favorite is:
supposed to be doing a co-write with him, band is rehearsing for hours, no producer. he finally shows, tells them he'll teach them how to really play. says he'll show them things they never thought possible, i.e. "i'll show you that there really is one note past G, it's H and i'll teach you". they commence working on the song, he wants to change the chorus, they discuss and mildly disagree, he gets enraged, and says, "let me go talk to my gold records about this" leaves the room and never returns.
Post by: rankus on December 09, 2009, 06:40:20 PM
Wow, That's some crazy shit! But hey, you got a gig out of it
Sometimes you really have to wonder how some of these guys get to where they are ... jeeez
Listen to the snare on Riot when it hits in a open spot: the flamming is ridiculous. Can't believe no one called them on it!
Post by: j.hall on December 11, 2009, 12:38:23 PM
| rankus wrote on Wed, 09 December 2009 17:40 |
Can't believe no one called them on it! |
maybe they did.......he does have gold records to consult with on such decisions........................................
Post by: Podgorny on December 11, 2009, 02:40:20 PM
| j.hall wrote on Wed, 09 December 2009 10:09 |
says he'll show them things they never thought possible, i.e. "i'll show you that there really is one note past G, it's H and i'll teach you". they commence working on the song, he wants to change the chorus, they discuss and mildly disagree, he gets enraged, and says, "let me go talk to my gold records about this" leaves the room and never returns. |
This sounds like the best session ever.
Post by: j.hall on December 12, 2009, 11:50:01 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc9A6PTiF9I
Post by: rankus on December 12, 2009, 02:35:00 PM
| j.hall wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 08:50 |
only if you're a fly on the wall. otherwise, i can only imagine it be very uncomfortable and largely sad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc9A6PTiF9I |
Wow. I'm completely speechless! Lordy
Post by: j.hall on December 14, 2009, 12:49:38 PM
Post by: Eric H. on January 26, 2010, 12:27:52 PM
Love the songs, mixing is bit heavy handed on drums(too much snare in particular) but a very good and punchy album.
Post by: Josh McArdle on February 17, 2010, 01:33:02 AM
Post by: GaryR47 on February 19, 2010, 09:29:47 PM
| Eric H. wrote on Tue, 26 January 2010 12:27 |
It's been a really long time since I have had interest in a teen rock band but the 'brand new eyes' album is a big hit for me. Love the songs, mixing is bit heavy handed on drums(too much snare in particular) but a very good and punchy album. |
I went over to their myspace site and said: Well Boys and Girls.......you have 30 seconds...........thrill me!!
Maybe I'm just too old to get this stuff??
Post by: grantis on February 20, 2010, 02:46:10 PM
| GaryR47 wrote on Fri, 19 February 2010 20:29 |
Maybe I'm just too old to get this stuff?? |
Not likely. There's nothing to "get". You either like it or you don't. I don't believe age has much to do with what music you should and shouldn't like.
Post by: Keegankaos on March 16, 2010, 06:18:01 PM
Post by: mdbeh on March 28, 2010, 10:42:44 PM
| GaryR47 wrote on Fri, 19 February 2010 20:29 |
Maybe I'm just too old to get this stuff?? |
Well sure, but that's ok, because it's children's music.
I mean, I don't 'get' Justin Beiber either...