cerberus wrote on Sun, 29 January 2006 05:03 |
if this machine is "close enough for rock and roll"... OK...but i suspect that in BB's mastering forum you will get some responses like mine. |
Werewolf10 wrote on Sat, 28 January 2006 13:53 |
I currently work with digital. I track with Lynx converters and would like to start mixing that down to 2 track reel to reel. Unfortunatly it's hard to find 1/2 inch two tracks. Would a Otari Mx5050 or Tascam BR20 at 15ips be suitable for mixdowns? Let me add that my recordings sound "OK" in professional terms. This is my home studio. Also, is there a way to bypass those built in preamps on those tape machines? I just know they must add noise, I can't imagine them having an exceptable noise floor. Sorry guys im 24, im a digital baby:) |
Teddy G. wrote on Sun, 29 January 2006 12:53 |
I encourage you to try your idea of mastering to 1/4". I encourage you to determine for yourself whether it is better than whatever you are doing now or whether any number of "simulation"(distortion adding) "plugins" will do better. Buy an old Otari, Tascam or Teac. Actually, when you find such a machine ask the owner if you may "take it off his hands", for free? If you're careful, you may even get someone to PAY YOU to take one! After all, they haven't used it for many years, (Really would have rather had an Ampex, when they did - don't want either now!)and will never use it again - what's it worth? The trashman, for one, will charge "extra" to include such a thing in this weeks collection rounds and it's too heavy to haul up/down the steps(The guy is old!) and even carry it to the curb - which is why he still has it at all... Most young recordists(And some old ones) have a distorted idea of what running their digital signals through tape will do and not do. Even those "ultra pros" who DO use tape, somewhere in the process, go to amazing "pains"(And alot of cost) to make sure it is doing something "good" for the process, something worth the time, trouble and expense - check out ATR Services, of York, PA, to see the kind of machines they try to use. Far as finding good tape, itself? Even pro's, with money no concern, have had trouble finding such tape since at least the early 1980's. Again, give it a try! Don't spend much on the project! Don't spend ANYTHING on the project if at all possible! The person with the old machine likely has boxes of old reels of useless tape around that he'll give you(Gladly) as well. If someone made a brand new tape machine, good as any ever made and someone else made new tape, good as any ever made, ANY "HSN special" Dell, with on-board sound and a "trial version" of any audio recording program would bury it - in every way... If you could go out and buy a 1963 Chevrolette Corvette, would it be better than a 2006 Corvette? Yes, in some ways it would - particularly if you were a young person in 1963, and couldn't possibly afford it then. But as a car? Today? Don't trade your Ford Focus(Plus lots of cash!) on the '63... If every good thing said about tape, tubes, film and carburators is absolutely true, it is still no longer possible for most of us to make use of this past technology. TG |
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If every good thing said about tape, tubes, film and carburators is absolutely true, it is still no longer possible for most of us to make use of this past technology. |
Teddy G. wrote on Sun, 29 January 2006 12:53 |
I encourage you to try your idea of mastering to 1/4". I encourage you to determine for yourself whether it is better than whatever you are doing now or whether any number of "simulation"(distortion adding) "plugins" will do better. |
Quote: |
Buy an old Otari, Tascam or Teac. Actually, when you find such a machine ask the owner if you may "take it off his hands", for free? If you're careful, you may even get someone to PAY YOU to take one! After all, they haven't used it for many years, (Really would have rather had an Ampex, when they did - don't want either now!)and will never use it again - what's it worth? The trashman, for one, will charge "extra" to include such a thing in this weeks collection rounds and it's too heavy to haul up/down the steps(The guy is old!) and even carry it to the curb - which is why he still has it at all... |
Quote: |
Most young recordists(And some old ones) have a distorted idea of what running their digital signals through tape will do and not do. Even those "ultra pros" who DO use tape, somewhere in the process, go to amazing "pains"(And alot of cost) to make sure it is doing something "good" for the process, something worth the time, trouble and expense - check out ATR Services, of York, PA, to see the kind of machines they try to use. Far as finding good tape, itself? Even pro's, with money no concern, have had trouble finding such tape since at least the early 1980's. |
Quote: |
If someone made a brand new tape machine, good as any ever made and someone else made new tape, good as any ever made, ANY "HSN special" Dell, with on-board sound and a "trial version" of any audio recording program would bury it - in every way... If you could go out and buy a 1963 Chevrolette Corvette, would it be better than a 2006 Corvette? Yes, in some ways it would - particularly if you were a young person in 1963, and couldn't possibly afford it then. But as a car? Today? Don't trade your Ford Focus(Plus lots of cash!) on the '63... |
Quote: |
If every good thing said about tape, tubes, film and carburators is absolutely true, it is still no longer possible for most of us to make use of this past technology. TG |
bigaudioblowhard wrote on Fri, 03 February 2006 17:43 |
ALL THE BEATLES RECORDS were mixed to 1/4", ALL ROLLING STONES, KINKS, THE WHO, MILES DAVIS, COLTRANE, PHIL SPECTOR, MOTOWN, THE DOORS...YOU NAME IT. , |
redfro wrote on Fri, 03 February 2006 21:14 |
Sorry if that post sounded shitty. I just don't want someone who's looking to try analog to be scared off by someone else's uninformed post. |
midnightsun wrote on Fri, 03 March 2006 03:04 |
This is a great thread. Many years ago I picked up an Otari MX 5050BII and MX 5050 MKIV-8 and still have boxes of sealed BASF tape. Once I went digital I parked these machines and never learned how to align nor maintain the machines; other than cleaning and demagnatizing. This threat makes me want to get the old machines out but I need some sort of step by step book on how to make sure that these machines are set up properly. Are there any good publications that are very very basic that any of you are aware of? |
bblackwood wrote on Mon, 20 February 2006 19:42 |
Some of my favorite records I have mastered are off of 1/4". 1/4" 456 @ 15ips is the sound of rock. |
Teddy G. wrote on Wed, 08 March 2006 02:40 |
But, please, this is for fun(Or maybe a hit record? I'm hoping!)! There can be no "serious" effort to "master" with such junk.(snip) NOT to "master" my 388 VO files that are due, for money, tommorow morning at 9. Do you get this??? (snip) |
Teddy G. wrote on Wed, 08 March 2006 02:40 |
If you want to do a better master, buy a better sound card. Work on your accoustic space(Your room). "LISTEN" very carefully to "the masters" of the masters. Try to figure out how they did it, then do it better. Learn how to use the stuff you have, NOW. |
Teddy G. wrote on Wed, 08 March 2006 02:40 |
It's 2006. Musician's Friend, be damned, there is no more tape, there are no more tubes, and the 5050 is, at best, about a 2080, now...... Teddy G. BTW: Wes! Buddy! How ya' doin'? Any relation to Croy Pitzer??? |
bobkatz wrote on Wed, 08 March 2006 03:15 |
Should he mix to it? Well certainly give it a try, and shoot it out against a 2496 done at the same time. Just because it has a sticker on it labelled 996 from MPR doesn't mean the machine has not drifted physically or electrically since then. In my opinion, ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, this machine needs to be aligned and calibrated for the tape in question. I would recommend a thorough initial one by a seriously competent tech who can check tensions, head heights, zeniths, distortion, SNR, etc., and after that you can follow up bias and EQ tweaks based on your technician's recommendations. You might even find someone at MPR who knows his stuff, maybe even the guy who stuck the 996 sticker on the machine. BK |
minister wrote on Wed, 08 March 2006 23:40 |
believe it or not, i got eddie ciletti to make a house call. well, it will only take an hour or so (barring any unforseen) and he teaches 3 blocks from here.... i'll let ya know, if ya care. |
bobkatz wrote on Thu, 09 March 2006 09:42 |
Fantastic. Eddie I'm sure will tell you if 15 is better than 30.... It's a potential tradeoff. 30 has better transient response and lower noise, but for most typical machines, 15 has a smoother low end (less peaks and dips and goes down lower), but only on the repro side. On the record side, 15 and 30 are equal as far as I'm concerned. So if you are going to be transferring back from the analog tape to digital, then the quality of the repro side of the analog tape is what counts. BK |
bigaudioblowhard wrote on Thu, 09 March 2006 21:57 |
Eddie Kramer still prints at 15 +6 SR. His patent quote, "30 IPS is for wimps". He's a funny guy. bab |
Mario |
werewolf10 , please keep personal comments private |
Werewolf10 wrote on Fri, 10 March 2006 00:28 |
Well Mr. Katz I just got a Lynx Two Card .. would that qualify as 24/96? I know when you say 24/96 it must mean somthing like BenchMark / Mytek / or Cranesong.. Don't get me wrong I would love to stack both of them up and give it a go,, but as you know 24/96 is not always 24/96. Maybe since Im thinking about a lower end analog machine it would be even against a lower end converter like Lynx... Well low end in the "PRO" world. |
Werewolf10 wrote on Fri, 10 March 2006 13:33 |
Does anyone know a Technician in the San Francisco Bay Area that can tune this thing up? I looked at the heads, they look really nice. The School has a maintanence log that shows they where replaced 3 years ago. But I'm sure it will need calibrating. |
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and have never used tape. 1. if i get say an mx5050, what exactly do i need? (i.e. a specific alignment tape? a demagnetizer, etc. . . ) |
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2. people have been talking about hitting the tape with a high level, but i've heard that a lot of people --> specifically STEVE, send a really low level to tape because that's where the compression happens. is that true? would that work as a mixdown thing? on that machine? how low is low? |