Post by: kats on January 12, 2011, 09:29:45 AM
I thought I'd be more excited (bite your tongue Weedy!), but all I can think of is what can go wrong...
I have until Sunday to get it all up and running, so I should be okay (knock on formica)!
I'll be dreaming of cables, pins, and crimp tools for the next little while. So if you hear me espousing the merits of ITB mixing, you'll know what happened!
Post by: grantis on January 12, 2011, 10:02:42 AM
And nice choice on the 6k!
Post by: Bill Mueller on January 12, 2011, 10:04:04 AM
| kats wrote on Wed, 12 January 2011 09:29 |
I might have mentioned in a thread a few months ago that we bought an SSL6KE/G+. Well after a complete overhaul we take delivery of it this afternoon. With a little help from my friends ( incl. pizza & beer) we're going to try and get this 1200lb thing into the CR. I thought I'd be more excited (bite your tongue Weedy!), but all I can think of is what can go wrong... I have until Sunday to get it all up and running, so I should be okay (knock on formica)! I'll be dreaming of cables, pins, and crimp tools for the next little while. So if you hear me espousing the merits of ITB mixing, you'll know what happened! |
Tony,
Congratulations! This reminds me of my first SSL commissioning. Very cool.
Don't pay a moment's notice to the SSL haters around here either. You are going to make incredible music with that beast. If I had the room, I would have one too.
Bill
Post by: arconaut on January 12, 2011, 10:26:45 AM
Congrats! When we were planning to install a console, I measured the elevator to see that it would fit. Then I measured again and again. Probably did it 20 times. Even though it seemed fine I was a paranoid wreck about it. Then it went up easy peasy. Have fun with your exciting new toy!
Post by: François Kevorkian on January 12, 2011, 10:51:16 AM
| kats wrote on Wed, 12 January 2011 14:29 |
I'll be dreaming of cables, pins, and crimp tools for the next little while. |
I miss the one I had very much... make that very, very much.
Good luck!
Post by: compasspnt on January 12, 2011, 11:02:31 AM
Post by: kats on January 12, 2011, 11:02:32 AM
| Bill Mueller wrote on Wed, 12 January 2011 09:04 |
Tony, Congratulations! This reminds me of my first SSL commissioning. Very cool. Don't pay a moment's notice to the SSL haters around here either. You are going to make incredible music with that beast. If I had the room, I would have one too. Bill |
Well it's going to be interesting to see if my brain thought this out properly. It's a baby SSL 24 channel from the factory that was originally built for National Geographic. The center section is modified to bypass the ABC matrix and the B&C stereo outs simply come out on the patch bay. The patchbay has a couple of neat mods where you have spare stereo returns xformer balanced to accept unbalanced inputs like a turntable or what have you. It was originally ordered with with the xformer coupled mic pre option (Jenson) as well. No clue what they sound like.
My workflow is not very "SSL like" to begin with since we usually track to 16tk tape. So I thought the size would be okay (as I already work on a 24ch Neotek and didn't wish for more channels. What I couldn't stand was having to patch everything in on the Neotek for sub groups etc etc - really slowed down workflow and that was the main reason I thought I would prefer this board. For bigger projects I figured I could run the main tracks to the large faders and then the not so main stuff through the small faders and process/automate the small faders in PT. But those are not as common. My associate and I have also become much more serious in our artist development/production side of things so we get to call the shots on how we do things more than usual - so I don't see our needs changing in this regard due to outside pressure. Who knows, I could be completely wrong haha!
I figured I could see how it goes and if I feel the need for a larger console I could move this in our second room and get another one. The prices are so cheap these days that it's hard to resist.
Post by: Samc on January 12, 2011, 11:07:40 AM
Post by: kats on January 12, 2011, 11:23:41 AM
Post by: ssltech on January 12, 2011, 11:26:51 AM
Good lord, I loathe those things. -They sound just terrible. -You can't make ANYTHING sound good on them!
-They kill music, in fact.
...
Seriously though, they're a blast, and can be quite fun to work on, so long as you didn't get Plasma meters! (hush my mouth!)
Post by: compasspnt on January 12, 2011, 11:35:11 AM
| ssltech wrote on Wed, 12 January 2011 11:26 |
...so long as you didn't get Plasma meters! |
Truer words...
Post by: stevieeastend on January 12, 2011, 12:13:49 PM
Post by: Bill Mueller on January 12, 2011, 02:24:28 PM
| kats wrote on Wed, 12 January 2011 11:02 | ||
Well it's going to be interesting to see if my brain thought this out properly. It's a baby SSL 24 channel from the factory that was originally built for National Geographic. The center section is modified to bypass the ABC matrix and the B&C stereo outs simply come out on the patch bay. The patchbay has a couple of neat mods where you have spare stereo returns xformer balanced to accept unbalanced inputs like a turntable or what have you. It was originally ordered with with the xformer coupled mic pre option (Jenson) as well. No clue what they sound like. My workflow is not very "SSL like" to begin with since we usually track to 16tk tape. So I thought the size would be okay (as I already work on a 24ch Neotek and didn't wish for more channels. What I couldn't stand was having to patch everything in on the Neotek for sub groups etc etc - really slowed down workflow and that was the main reason I thought I would prefer this board. For bigger projects I figured I could run the main tracks to the large faders and then the not so main stuff through the small faders and process/automate the small faders in PT. But those are not as common. My associate and I have also become much more serious in our artist development/production side of things so we get to call the shots on how we do things more than usual - so I don't see our needs changing in this regard due to outside pressure. Who knows, I could be completely wrong haha! I figured I could see how it goes and if I feel the need for a larger console I could move this in our second room and get another one. The prices are so cheap these days that it's hard to resist. |
Tony,
It's a good thing that you have a console modded to bypass the matrix, because IMO that "feature" was the weakness of the 6K.
You will also now be able to make PUNCHY tracks compared to the Neotek, although you may miss the silkiness of the top band of the Neotek EQ.
Something I'm certain you will find is many new ways to work on signal flow with this console. Lots of rerouting options!
Good luck!
Bill
Post by: Bill Mueller on January 12, 2011, 02:26:57 PM
| compasspnt wrote on Wed, 12 January 2011 11:35 | ||
Truer words... |
Oh boy did I ever have a love/hate relationship with them! 120 volt meters if I remember right! Wha?
Bill
Post by: amorris on January 12, 2011, 03:58:49 PM
Post by: jwhynot on January 12, 2011, 04:15:03 PM
Who knew? Sounded pretty tall to me.
Congrats!
JW
Post by: Eric H. on January 12, 2011, 06:00:26 PM
Post by: Les Ismore on January 12, 2011, 06:16:52 PM
Wheels....
Post by: kats on January 12, 2011, 10:21:26 PM
Who would of thought to meaure the elevator door opening on my second floor studio AND the opening on the first floor? Well the first floor was shorter. I'll post some pics tomorrow of the thing being carried up a flight of stairs. Yeah no luck on the meters, this one had plasma's.
Post by: Bill Mueller on January 13, 2011, 12:42:03 PM
| kats wrote on Wed, 12 January 2011 22:21 |
Yeah no luck on the meters, this one had plasma's. |
Tony,
Just use the Pro Tools meters. Oh yeah I forgot, Pro Tools meters suck too! Geeze. Prepare to buy spares.
Bill
Post by: KB_S1 on January 13, 2011, 01:06:28 PM
Post by: ssltech on January 13, 2011, 01:27:46 PM
However, the tubes go bad unfortunately, and are no longer made. -They were actually SHAVED DOWN slightly, to fit in between the LED scale backlighting, so most replacements don't even fit physically.
In addition, the logic can cause some grief, and the high voltage 'MPSA'-series transistors can break down over time also, which tends to make little dancing traces appear, and sometimes makes the whole bar light up at all times, dramatically quickening the burnout of the tube.
On top of that, troubleshooting REGULARLY causes 'nips' to the servicing engineer, because the whole thing runs on 250VDC inside the meter bridge and across the whole of the back of the console... The number of times that clients hear that little "spit" followed by some inventive curse words, and a "bang" as the rapidly-withdrawn elbow bangs into some unyielding part of the heavy cast metal frame.... well, I think that any tech who's ever had to work on those things will smile a wry prayer of thanks that they're not doing exactly that right now!
Keith
Post by: zmix on January 13, 2011, 01:48:55 PM
Post by: kats on January 13, 2011, 02:37:02 PM
Console off the truck, I thought this would be the second best part of the day.
Main floor elevator not the same size opening as studio. Worst part of the day. I kept turning away because I was too stressed to watch
5 minutes later they yelled to me that it was okay to open my eyes. They made it flawlessly to a "half floor" which had an elevator that would fit the console. Second best part of the day... almost a tie for first. Actually I think this was the best part of the day for me.
Finally into the CR and put together. The official second best part of the day.
Post by: Bill Mueller on January 13, 2011, 02:57:20 PM
| kats wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 14:37 |
Pics: Console off the truck, I thought this would be the second best part of the day. Main floor elevator not the same size opening as studio. Worst part of the day. I kept turning away because I was too stressed to watch 5 minutes later they yelled to me that it was okay to open my eyes. They made it flawlessly to a "half floor" which had an elevator that would fit the console. Second best part of the day... almost a tie for first. Actually I think this was the best part of the day for me. Finally into the CR and put together. The official second best part of the day. |
Tony, baby,
Why on God's green Earth are you moving that SSL LOADED?!!
Edit: It really is cute though!
Best regards,
Bill
Post by: Les Ismore on January 13, 2011, 03:04:12 PM
Post by: ssltech on January 13, 2011, 04:21:25 PM
| Bill Mueller wrote |
Why on God's green Earth are you moving that SSL LOADED?!! |
...And -never mind your drinking problem-
why are the modules still in there?
Less to smash, lighter to lift.
But -none the less- It does look lovely!
Keith
Post by: Bill Mueller on January 13, 2011, 05:25:41 PM
| ssltech wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 16:21 | ||
...And -never mind your drinking problem- why are the modules still in there? Less to smash, lighter to lift. But -none the less- It does look lovely! Keith |
Keith,
Ha!
Tony,
It's sooooo much easier on the motherboards too. I would pull all the modules and reseat them before powering up for sure.
Bill
Post by: Eric H. on January 13, 2011, 05:36:24 PM
We had 6 guys move a yamaha PM3500 today at work, and it was frightening!
Post by: kats on January 13, 2011, 08:28:10 PM
The good news, is that everything powers up perfectly! Tomorrow a we'll see how audio passes and the computer runs. But the techs that refurbed it said it was working perfectly in the shop. Thing is really clean if you see it in person, almost looks brand new.
About these plasma's. Is it smarter to let them run their course and replace the meter bridge with analog VU's? They sure look pretty though, I was calling my assistant "Spock" today.
Post by: ssltech on January 13, 2011, 08:55:27 PM
On the power supply, switch off the +250V rail whenever you leave at night, if you're leaving the thing powered up.
That way, you can reduce the amount of time that the transistors are exposed to the High-Voltage DC. -Things should last longer.
There's a small toggle switch for exactly this purpose on the front of the PSU.
Keith
Post by: Bill Mueller on January 13, 2011, 09:06:11 PM
| ssltech wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 20:55 |
Here's a tip... On the power supply, switch off the +250V rail whenever you leave at night, if you're leaving the thing powered up. That way, you can reduce the amount of time that the transistors are exposed to the High-Voltage DC. -Things should last longer. There's a small toggle switch for exactly this purpose on the front of the PSU. Keith |
And that way you will also know EXACTLY when you lost the meter.
9:01AM!
Bill
Post by: Bill Mueller on January 13, 2011, 09:09:54 PM
| kats wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 20:28 |
No kidding. I would have removed the modules, but a few techs told me that SSL's were designed to ship modules in. |
Tony,
I have been part of two commissionings (word?) and have not seen one shipped with modules mounted. I really think you should exercise those connectors before powering up.
Bill
Post by: grantis on January 13, 2011, 09:20:52 PM
| Bill Mueller wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 20:09 | ||
Tony, I have been part of two commissionings (word?) and have not seen one shipped with modules mounted. I really think you should exercise those connectors before powering up. Bill |
The only one i've been a part of (6k56 E/G+)....went like....
-power down/decommission and wheel the console with modules installed onto moving truck
-drive 4 hours to new location (below speed limit)
-back up to the dock at new location, and have team of 3 people carrying modules one by one to the new studio as per instructions from the tech hired to re-commission the desk. he was removing them as fast as he could to keep up with all the volunteers.
-wheel in the frame (without the legs), with the center section still installed.
i think the idea is that it will 'ship' with modules installed, but you are to remove them at the delivery site before moving the console. that is my one and only experience though....
Post by: CWHumphrey on January 13, 2011, 10:50:51 PM
The modules stayed in.
Go figure.
Cheers,
Post by: tekis on January 13, 2011, 10:58:15 PM
| Fran
Post by: Eric H. on January 14, 2011, 08:04:03 AM Post by: ssltech on January 14, 2011, 08:12:18 AM While the "it doesn't break while it's off" versus the "It breaks when you switch it on" debate rages, and both people could be right, please consider this: You can't get new tubes any more. While some stuff may fail on power up occasionally, the "burning out the tube because of being left on with an emitter-to-collector shorted MPSA42/MPSA92 shouldn't happen, if it's only powered up while there's someone to observe the meters. Every console was always shipped from the factory with the modules IN. Every new one I unloaded and installed, I pulled the modules out inside the Pulleyn Lorry, and moved the frame thus. SSL's policy was to ship the console AS IT PASSED FINAL TEST. Faders were moved to the 'fully-up' position and the console shipped. -That way, there was no chance of a module (which is much more vulnerable once it's removed from the frame being damaged during shipping. Once it got to the Studio however, I'd sign for it, pull the modules and lift the frame in empty. Keith Post by: adamhand on January 14, 2011, 12:20:56 PM Post by: adamhand on January 14, 2011, 12:23:37 PM Post by: stevieeastend on January 14, 2011, 01:10:47 PM Post by: kats on January 15, 2011, 09:51:03 AM
Hi Adam! I noticed the 48v thingie. It look likes the board originally had line in's instead of preamps on channel 12-24, and was retrofitted sometime in it's life. I'm very curious about the preamps ( which are the first 11 as you correctly remember). If all goes well today I'll be able to listen (finally). I wish you could see the board. PAD did a great job, even reupholstered it. It looks almost new. Thanks for chiming in! Post by: Bill Mueller on January 15, 2011, 10:12:16 AM
Tony, The differences between the xformer and non exformer pre's is pretty significant. I had a console with 32 xformer and 16 non xformer pre's and I used the xformers for things like drums and percussion because they were hard as stone. Then I would use the non xformers for acoustic piano and stringed instruments because of the extended top end. Of course everyone here might use them exactly opposite. Whatever works. Bill Post by: kats on January 18, 2011, 10:54:10 AM One difference I noticed between the SSL and Neotek is a clearer stereo image and detail on the SSL. The SSL also seems to be more aggressive. It seems that the Neotek is a little softer sounding in comparison. No real preference although I think I can hear what the SSL does to the sound, not so much with the Neotek. It's kind of fun to use it to your advantage. I was able to dial in a sweet snare sound using only the board pres/eq/dynamics. But my main happiness (and why I bought the board) is 'cause everything is so damn fast. You just think it and it happens. The only patch cables I used were for the cue systems. A nice change from the pasta primavera my patch bay used to look like when setting up a session. I do love the plasma meters, I hope they hold out. They look so cool and I am now calling my assistant "Spock" Oh and a tip of the hat to Terry. My speaker stands were too short for the console and I had remembered his "PVC sewer pipe stand filled with sand" trick and they worked perfectly. I capped both ends with the matching sewer stops which conveniently had screw holes to screw into MDF bases that I bought. Some black spray paint and viola! Brilliant. Post by: Bill Mueller on January 18, 2011, 10:59:05 AM
Tony, That is about a spot on description of working on your first SSL. I loved the way I could get right to work on the first 4K we installed but that many years later, I could still find new ways of accomplishing things. Bill Post by: kats on January 22, 2011, 05:35:39 PM
I'm really digging the sound of this thing so far. Obviously your being facetious, but I don't get all the ragging on these boards. Now I've never used some of the old classics before but I think this thing sounds fantastic. There a certain forwardness and presence I'm beginning to recognize, but I still find it open sounding. I wonder if the smaller frame size makes any difference in that regard. 
Post by: delcosmos on January 22, 2011, 06:15:08 PM This is funny because we are also installing right now 2 "New-old" 4000G+'s, one is a 4048G+ and the second one is a 4040G+ Ross Alexander is in charge of the decommission-commission job. He's calibrating everything and service them right now. I also moved my Duality to my "Production room" so... we are a cable jungle right now! Best regards. delcosmos. Post by: compasspnt on January 22, 2011, 06:38:17 PM
GREAT, this makes my day. So glad that worked out! Post by: Bill Mueller on January 22, 2011, 06:50:57 PM
Armondo, I was with you until the "move the Duality to the production room" thing. I have used the Duality at Sheffield and I think it is a great sounding board, fat, articulate and really excellent imaging. Why move it out of the music room? Just curious. Bill Post by: Bill Mueller on January 22, 2011, 06:51:58 PM No. Bill Post by: kats on January 22, 2011, 06:57:53 PM
That's awesome Armando! I don't blame you at all, I honestly feel guilty buying these things for such ridiculously low prices. So much quality, right down to the little switches. You just don't see that any more. I doubt we ever will. Post by: delcosmos on January 22, 2011, 07:33:36 PM
Bill, I agree with you, the thing is that these days I'm producing and mixing in my production room at the same time, so in the end, the one that will work more is my Duality! The reason for installing the 4000G+'s is because I really like the sound of those beasts. But most important, now I have a great staff to keep them working, my "in house" tech will take care of them daily, that was the most important thing to make my decision. Also, my business is growing and we are supporting new producers and mixing engineers, in fact, the second 4000 will be the console of a great guy that we just hired, who is a great mixer engineer, so we will open a new mixing room for him. Best regards. delcosmos. Post by: Bill Mueller on January 22, 2011, 08:31:30 PM
Armondo, Congratulations! Bill Post by: ssltech on January 22, 2011, 11:08:35 PM
Tell it to the choir, brutha! -I love them. Wait until you discover WHY you love it... Keith Post by: Peter Weihe on January 23, 2011, 07:42:17 AM
Hi Armondo, congratulations! That is an amazing and encouraging statement at this time and state of the music industry. Would you mind sharing how you managed to make your business grow when so many great studios around us are closing down? Peter Post by: delcosmos on January 23, 2011, 02:24:27 PM
Hello Peter, Well, the key (in my case) is Songwriting, producing and playing, I also record and mix most of my records, I don't have to rent external studios, we are self-sufficient, also my company is holding more producers who are having great success on their own projects. BTW, I also have my own publishing company. We are starting the year with 6 new projects from the main remaining labels, I know this are difficult times for our industry, but we have found ways to keep rolling. In 2010 I produced 75 songs, 32 different artists, wrote 20 songs, won a Grammy, a Billboard producer of the year for second year in a row, 2 Ascap awards, one BMI Award, we got 4 platinum and 6 gold records, we got #1 singles and albums in Spain, Mexico, South America and the latin market of USA. I started producing in 1994, my first hit came in 2002, since then we haven't stopped! Every single piece of gear or musical instrument in my studio, was bought with the incomes of my music, I'm proud of it. Best. Armando. Post by: kats on January 23, 2011, 03:00:18 PM The last few years we've seen the money in publishing and syncs. So taking on the role as an artist developer, using all the facility at our disposal and working for back end is becoming more lucrative (and creatively rewarding). You have to be able to do it all (IMO). Song writing, producing, engineering, mixing... finished product presented to the right people. JV's or the selling off of our interests is the goal for us at this stage of the game. The record labels just don't want to fork over large sums of money anymore for this sort of thing and publishing advances don't nearly cover what it costs to really do a good production. They're expecting artists to be able to do it at home, or at least on the very cheap. Having the ground work laid out is very appealing for all involved. The risk is lower for them and the upside is bigger for us. Post by: bigbone on January 23, 2011, 04:00:07 PM
Yes it's nice to hear someone who's talking positive about the music industry. I wish you the best again. JN Post by: Peter Weihe on January 23, 2011, 04:24:52 PM
Hats off to you, Armando! That is a tremendous output for one year. Really something you and your grandchildren and grandgrandchildren can be proud of! Beside your talent and dedication you must have a very efficient time management and lots of energy. You must truly be loving what you do. More power to you and good luck for yourself, your crew and the new mixing room. Best, Peter Post by: delcosmos on January 24, 2011, 07:57:46 AM
Thank you guys. I don't want to hijack this thread, let's keep talking about that beautiful 6000 of Mr. Kats. Tell us Tony, are you using the built in automation or are you automating levels on your DAW? Best regards. delcosmos. Post by: kats on January 24, 2011, 12:30:54 PM The plan is to stripe our 16tk Studer and slave the SSL and PT (if needed) all to the tape deck. VCA automation on the SSL and for ancillary tracks automated through PT and brought out to the short faders. Having said that, we not big on tracks the way we work. Even on the Ash Koley stuff, which is as "pop" as we get, I don't think we went over 24 tracks. And even then we could have reduced the number, but it was unnecessary in a DAW. Now back to hijacking the thread (go ahead guys, it's a great topic) I think the best move I made was aligning myself with a good producer/songwriter to work out of my studio. It is a good thing to remember that, even in such a precarious business climate, that you own something people want - it's just not affordable. All this "we can do it at home" stuff is just many being apologists for a bad situation. So with that it mind, leverage your asset. In my case I provide a home base in a professional environment for an in demand producer. I charge very little for the suite, but in return he keeps my studio busy, and his clients are very impressed with the results I can provide. It looks good on everyone. And now after working together for two years + it has elevated my abilities and I am getting co-producer credits and whatever goes along with that financially. On the flip side, because of the level of trust, Phil (the producer I speak of) can take more of a work load on as I can handle a bigger bulk of the load. The more credits I get on his records, the more comfortable his clients are to the idea of me handling the basics. It's really a win win situation. All I know is that I'm in the middle of nowhere and would not have had a chance in hell attracting clients outside of my surrounding area otherwise. I think what I am learning is that there are many financial angles besides a day rate if you have something others want. This is how I see it from the trenches and I'm sure others with a bigger track record might have a different view. Post by: Bill Mueller on January 24, 2011, 12:51:47 PM
Tony, This response needs to be over on the "fair compensation" thread! Bill |