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R/E/P => R/E/P Archives => Brad Blackwood => Topic started by: mastertone on December 07, 2007, 09:46:40 AM

Title: Cassette deck recommendation
Post by: mastertone on December 07, 2007, 09:46:40 AM
Got a big one coming up, jazz recordings on cassette, complete catalog, i dont feel that my marantz deck is up for it, any recommendations?

Nakamichi?
Nad?


thanks / Jonas
Title: Re: Cassette deck recommendation
Post by: Allen Corneau on December 07, 2007, 10:20:58 AM
A well-maintained Nakamichi MR-1 or TASCAM 122 should do the trick. Pair it up with a nice A/D converter and some good noise reduction software and I think you'll be all set.

Good luck.
Title: Re: Cassette deck recommendation
Post by: Jerry Tubb on December 07, 2007, 10:33:31 AM
Allen Corneau wrote on Fri, 07 December 2007 09:20

A well-maintained Nakamichi MR-1 or TASCAM 122 should do the trick.


Another vote for the Nakamichi MR-1.

Just had the motors replaced in ours.

XLR balanced outputs makes it easy.

Multiple heads, pitch control, tweakable azimuth, wired remote.

Bought new in 1990 for about a grand.

Audiofile specs.

Sits quietly in our rack, waiting for that rare cassette transfer.

JT
Title: Re: Cassette deck recommendation
Post by: Viitalahde on December 07, 2007, 10:43:46 AM
Funny, I've also had the itch of buying The Final Cassette Deck. Nakamichis look cool.

Does Studer have any good ones?




Title: Re: Cassette deck recommendation
Post by: jdg on December 07, 2007, 12:12:44 PM
i have a Nakamichi MR-2b which is great.
also, Nakamichi translates to "middle of the road"
Title: Re: Cassette deck recommendation
Post by: carlsaff on December 07, 2007, 12:16:22 PM
Nakamichi here, too -- 582Z. I got it from fellow boarder Mark Donahue at SoundMirror in Boston. Perfect for those rare cassette jobs. (They happen more than I ever would've suspected, but still... pretty rare...)
Title: Re: Cassette deck recommendation
Post by: djwaudio on December 07, 2007, 12:45:08 PM
 One more vote for Nakamichi. I have an unbalanced unit that I prefer to the Tascam. I just plug the Nak into the Ibis EQ (converts unbalanced to pro very nicely) and it's simply gorgeous. I'm always amazed at the sonic potential for cassette.

I have been told they have a "curve" that makes them sound good, as if that's a bad thing!
Title: Re: Cassette deck recommendation
Post by: TotalSonic on December 07, 2007, 01:38:01 PM
The Nakamichi MR1 or Dragon definitely is a great option.  Got to say for a cheaper and more readily alternative the newer Denon decks with balanced outputs (such as the one on my DN-T625) sound great.

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Title: Re: Cassette deck recommendation
Post by: Hank Alrich on December 07, 2007, 02:01:15 PM
TotalSonic wrote on Fri, 07 December 2007 10:38

The Nakamichi MR1 or Dragon definitely is a great option.  Got to say for a cheaper and more readily alternative the newer Denon decks with balanced outputs (such as the one on my DN-T625) sound great.

Best regards,
Steve Berson


Some Naks, including the Dragon, have the easily adjustable/auto adjustable azimuth for playback head. Getting playback aligned to match whatever the original recorder imposed can be rewarding.
Title: Re: Cassette deck recommendation
Post by: JGreenslade on December 07, 2007, 02:43:47 PM
Finding a Nak - and finding a decent Nak you can use - are two separate issues.

Naks are a bit like classic cars. You might find one for $5,000, spend $20,000 restoring it, but it'll only be worth $12,00 after the work. Unless the project is important, understand that negative equity is part of decent cassette deck ownership.

I don't think there's much middle-ground here. You either buy one that works and put aside several times what you paid for it to get one of the handful of quality cassette deck Techs to get it into factory 'spec, or you find one that's been serviced / has paperwork and go through it with fine tooth-comb.

The number alludes me at the moment, but I once had a Revox / Studer deck that sounded sensational - slightly better than my Denon. Denons are best value - they're superb for the money. I once did an A/B with a friend and he couldn't tell reliably whether we were listening off the play head or preview.

The 1000ZXL Ltd Edition is king of Naks, but rare as hen's teeth and very expensive (an unbelievable piece of kit - mind blowing).

I'll agree that cassette won't flap your trousers like 499 1/2" on a decent A80, nor will it have the S/N ratio, but in terms of mid and top clarity, you'll find a well-serviced Nak or Revox will put up a serious fight.

I have nothing against cassette decks. I think they get maligned because people don't appreciate the maintenance requirements.

Be warned that spending a little extra on a Nak or Revox *could* equate to a lot less in servicing needs. Servicing costs on a good cassette deck can be frightening - I've been there.

Justin
Title: Re: Cassette deck recommendation
Post by: JSam on December 07, 2007, 02:48:27 PM
I love Nakamichi Dragons.  As noted above, auto azimuth correction is the best feature.  It's stellar machine outside of that, too.  The down side is it's hard to find one in good enough condition.  Moreover, the only qualified lab I know to service them has a wait queue of nearly a year.  The whole unbalanced out thing doesn't bother me too much as depending on the size of the job, it's not too hard to reconfigure the A/D; otherwise I'm happy with an Aphex converter.

I've heard good things about the Nak CR-7.  But never used one.

Tascam stopped manufacturing the 122 a couple years ago.  The Tascam 112 is the best model in production as far as I know.  It's not a bad machine, but it's not the cream either.
Title: Re: Cassette deck recommendation
Post by: Kees de Visser on December 07, 2007, 03:04:22 PM
AFAIK MC's don't carry reference tones for (playback) calibration.
What would be the best procedure to optimise the playback quality ?
- playback speed (the recorder might have been off)
- azimuth (how do you align without ref.tones. Search for lowest L-R output)?
- how do you find the best high EQ setting (by ear?)
- hopefully the tapes were properly labeled re. 90/120 us and NR type

I still love MC's (have a Nak 582) but haven't forgotten the days when they were used as an approval ref for artists. Lots of compatibility problems, with speed as an important one for perfect pitch listeners.

Title: Re: Cassette deck recommendation
Post by: Thomas W. Bethel on December 07, 2007, 03:32:03 PM
Great place to find USED cassette decks including NAKs http://www.playitagainsam.com/ it is in Lakewood, Ohio but they ship all over the world. You want to talk to Bernie, the owner if you phone them and you can mention my name if needed.

Title: Re: Cassette deck recommendation
Post by: Allen Corneau on December 07, 2007, 04:05:47 PM
Since the topic of finding a good Nakamichi has come up....

I've got an MR-1 that's been sitting around that I'd be happy to sell. It had the gearbox upgrade some time ago, but it hasn't been seen much use since.

Send a P.M. if interested.
Title: Re: Cassette deck recommendation
Post by: OTR-jkl on December 07, 2007, 05:09:52 PM
carlsaff wrote on Fri, 07 December 2007 11:16

582Z

That's a car, isn't it...?
Title: Re: Cassette deck recommendation
Post by: Adam Dempsey on December 07, 2007, 06:59:51 PM
Hank Alrich wrote on Sat, 08 December 2007 06:01


Some Naks, including the Dragon, have the easily adjustable/auto adjustable azimuth for playback head. Getting playback aligned to match whatever the original recorder imposed can be rewarding.

And is pretty damn crucial, too (and as was not the case in, for example, that posthumous Jess Buckley album). Afterall, you'd get it right for a 1/4" or 1/2" 2-track master.

I remember, about 10 yrs ago, not being able to pick the Nak Dragon from a CD in a blind test in an ex girlfriend's loungeroom (she had good taste in hi-fi). I wouldn't mind finding another one (Dragon, that is... um Nak, that is).
Title: Re: Cassette deck recommendation
Post by: Adam Dempsey on December 07, 2007, 07:08:44 PM
Kees de Visser wrote on Sat, 08 December 2007 07:04


- azimuth (how do you align without ref.tones. Search for lowest L-R output)?

Highest HF L+R output. Watch for the false peaks either side.
Kees de Visser wrote on Sat, 08 December 2007 07:04


- hopefully the tapes were properly labeled re. 90/120 us and NR type


Yes. Although DBX will be easy to spot (2:1 companding). Dolby B on or off: listen for hyped/over compressed highs if encoded & not being decoded. Between type B & C: less obvious, listen for over-decoding/pumping. I've never encountered a Dolby S tape.
Title: Re: Cassette deck recommendation
Post by: Jerry Tubb on December 07, 2007, 08:01:05 PM
Maybe after the mania over mp3 players has peaked and considered passe', cassette will make a comeback.

Despite it's flaws, tape, even at 1 7/8 ips is much more pleasing to listen to.

opinions?

JT
Title: Re: Cassette deck recommendation
Post by: JSam on December 07, 2007, 08:30:51 PM
Jerry Tubb wrote on Fri, 07 December 2007 17:01

Maybe after the mania over mp3 players has peaked and considered passe', cassette will make a comeback.

Despite it's flaws, tape, even at 1 7/8 ips is much more pleasing to listen to.

opinions?

JT

Picking a fight?  Smile

I'll take weird treble artifacts and smeared lows and mids over dropouts, extremely limited bandwidth, and yes, smeared lows and mids any day.  Plus mp3s are way more portable.
Title: Re: Cassette deck recommendation
Post by: bblackwood on December 07, 2007, 08:44:19 PM
Jerry Tubb wrote on Fri, 07 December 2007 19:01

Maybe after the mania over mp3 players has peaked and considered passe', cassette will make a comeback.

Despite it's flaws, tape, even at 1 7/8 ips is much more pleasing to listen to.

opinions?

No chance. My wife's iPod is smaller than a cassette, is non-linear (convenient), and holds 10X as much music (at 256AAC, which sounds better than a cassette, imo)...
Title: Re: Cassette deck recommendation
Post by: Jerry Tubb on December 07, 2007, 09:47:34 PM
bblackwood wrote on Fri, 07 December 2007 19:44

No chance.


Cassette hasn't been dead long enough to be considered "cool".

My prediction: in 10 or more years, a new generation that didn't grow up with cassette, will discover it as a cool retro format, and relish it because of it's inconvenience, warm sound, and tape anomalies.

Good players ~ Nakamichi will then go for a premium.

JT

addendum: I should make a distinction between real time cassette dubs from a decent source, and 32-64x high speed dupes which always sounded inferior imo.
Title: Re: Cassette deck recommendation
Post by: dcollins on December 07, 2007, 11:44:57 PM
Kees de Visser wrote on Sat, 08 December 2007 07:04


- azimuth (how do you align without ref.tones. Search for lowest L-R output)?


For stereo, nulling anything panned to the center while listening to the L-R, is the preferred method, although you should start by peaking the HF while in mono.

Azimuth is extremely critical in cassette transfers.  Unless you have that Cedar box that automagically fixes it, it should be adjusted at the deck.

The last time I mastered from cassette, I rented a Nak MR-1 which has a easy-to-use and repeatable azimuth control.

DC
Title: Re: Cassette deck recommendation
Post by: Larrchild on December 08, 2007, 12:37:04 AM
You hear the azimuth peak "swish" through as you turn the Phillips screw on the head. It will be real apparent.
Title: Re: Cassette deck recommendation
Post by: bblackwood on December 08, 2007, 03:37:39 AM
Jerry Tubb wrote on Fri, 07 December 2007 20:47

bblackwood wrote on Fri, 07 December 2007 19:44

No chance.


Cassette hasn't been dead long enough to be considered "cool".

My prediction: in 10 or more years, a new generation that didn't grow up with cassette, will discover it as a cool retro format, and relish it because of it's inconvenience, warm sound, and tape anomalies.

Good players ~ Nakamichi will then go for a premium.

Ehh, you're right, there's always a chance, but I don't think we'll see the nostalgia like we do with vinyl. Time will tell - at this point I'd not sell a Nak either - it's not like it will get you much right now, and if you do transfers, one or two sessions is worth keeping it around...
Title: Re: Cassette deck recommendation
Post by: Gold on December 08, 2007, 08:14:55 AM
bblackwood wrote on Sat, 08 December 2007 03:37

Ehh, you're right, there's always a chance, but I don't think we'll see the nostalgia like we do with vinyl.


I agree. I didn't like them the first time around either. When was the last time you considered buying cassette at a yard sale? I thought so.

There are some cassette only labels around. If you have a great system and do your own transfers, okay maybe. I never once bought a prerecorded cassette. They were about the same price as a record and clearly inferior.
Title: Re: Cassette deck recommendation
Post by: studiojimi on December 09, 2007, 12:59:53 AM
my MR1 has served me well for 21 years

don't use it often but i did use it today

would love to have the latest places for upgrade mods and service for this piece of gear

my older archive cds from the 70s and 80s don't seem to want to go thru the box

perhaps they can bake a cassette ha ha

i bet it is do-able
Title: Re: Cassette deck recommendation
Post by: mastertone on December 09, 2007, 05:10:37 PM
Thank you all for your recommendations and replys! The Nakimichis do look good, I might have a "high end" pioneer that i can borrow for a while.

Best regards Jonas.
Title: Re: Cassette deck recommendation
Post by: dcollins on December 09, 2007, 09:20:52 PM
Larrchild wrote on Fri, 07 December 2007 21:37

You hear the azimuth peak "swish" through as you turn the Phillips screw on the head. It will be real apparent.


And the Nak actually has a neat little gear reduction-drive that is  easy to tweak.


DC