Post by: carlsaff on December 11, 2006, 07:11:16 PM
I know that detented A channel controls (and B channel gain) are available for $600 extra, which is not too bad if you don't plan to run it unlinked (I probably wouldn't).
Post by: jdg on December 11, 2006, 08:13:39 PM
i would 50% of the time run my api2500 unlinked
but, continue your thread unabated
Post by: carlsaff on December 11, 2006, 08:45:02 PM
I've also heard that the VT-7 knobs are well-marked enough that the detents may not be worth the hundreds of dollars they cost.
Post by: TotalSonic on December 11, 2006, 09:42:27 PM
I looked at the VT7 at AES 2005 and spoke with Doug for a little bit at that time regarding it. Doug definitely really knows his stuff so I am sure the signal path and design are worthy of being considered for a mastering rig. At the time he hadn't yet thought through a detented option but gave me a guestimate of a little bit above $400 extra - so sounds like the $600 extra is extremely reasonable.
From looking at it the unit seemed very well built and ergonomically easy to deal with as it was - although if you have the extra scratch $600 seems very little in order to get things a lot more recallable.
Anyway - I've never heard one except for an online shootout posted by Brian Lucey on Gearslutz a bit ago. It was wav file of an acoustic jazz ensemble mastered through one with a comparison file of the same track processed through the Cranesong STC-8. For this specific track I definitely preferred the DW Fearn version as it sounded both smoother and less veiled to me than the STC-8 version. However - a few people commented that the STC-8 could have faired better in the test with the use of some other settings. Not having the luxury of having either of those units I can't really draw definite conclusions from this limited exposure.
One thing I can tell you though - if you haven't yet it's very worth checking out both the API2500 and the Pendulum OCL-2 as I think these are remarkably good bang for buck options offering a lot of versatility and high quality for not as much cash as some of the other comp/limiters out there. Since you could get both of them for just a little bit above the price of the detented VT-7 it might be worth considering these as options.
Best regards,
Steve Berson
Post by: compasspnt on December 11, 2006, 09:49:30 PM
Post by: TotalSonic on December 11, 2006, 10:26:26 PM
| compasspnt wrote on Tue, 12 December 2006 02:49 |
Don't know the VT-7 (althouigh I'd love to try one), but the STC-8 should certainly not sound "veiled." |
Perhaps I used the wrong wording - no need for STC8 owners to get defensive regarding their prized possesion.
To clarify:
In this particular shootout to my ear the version using the VT7 sounded more open and natural than the version using the STC8, which sounded a tiny bit more "meaty" to me. Both versions sounded very good though - it was more of a subjective preference where I preferred "open" over "meaty" for this particular track. I should note that the difference was subtle although to me definitely noticeable.
Best regards,
Steve Berson
Post by: carlsaff on December 11, 2006, 11:03:01 PM
I'll bet the STC-8 was in ki rather than hara mode -- that can sound a touch veiled, depending on the source.
I'm interested in those API and Pendulum pieces, too, Steve, but for the moment I'm really drawn to colorful, "enhancing" analog pieces, as I feel I can do (and may always prefer to do) transparent/surgical stuff in the box. So next month, I'll probably be demo-ing the VT-7, a Chandler LTD-2 mastering pair, and the API 5500... and possibly the Requisite L2M, but I'm not so sure about that one.
Post by: TotalSonic on December 11, 2006, 11:22:15 PM
| carlsaff wrote on Tue, 12 December 2006 04:03 |
I saw that GS post, but the files are long gone, unfortunately. I'll bet the STC-8 was in ki rather than hara mode -- that can sound a touch veiled, depending on the source. I'm interested in those API and Pendulum pieces, too, Steve, but for the moment I'm really drawn to colorful, "enhancing" analog pieces, as I feel I can do (and may always prefer to do) transparent/surgical stuff in the box. So next month, I'll probably be demo-ing the VT-7, a Chandler LTD-2 mastering pair, and the API 5500... and possibly the Requisite L2M, but I'm not so sure about that one. |
While maybe not the currrently "sexiest" piece out there, the API 2500 I would place more in the "colorful" category - but I find it can actually be very versatile. It's tone & thrust controls allow you to target the general frequency band it primarily triggers off of - giving results kind of like a multiband comp except without the weird "remixing" that sometimes happens when using multiband. It can be set anywhere from subtle shaping to very aggressive with good results for both. I've had very good success using it on everything from hip-hop to acoustic rock. imho it's not something you'd want as your only compressor - but it's certainly worthy of being an often used option.
Best regards,
Steve Berson
Post by: matucha on December 12, 2006, 04:17:45 AM
I guess everyone hears differently.
...anyone interested in those files, PM me or e-mail me (zka4t at zka4t com)
Post by: carlsaff on December 12, 2006, 07:21:24 AM
Post by: moogus on December 12, 2006, 09:28:35 AM
The only real solution if you cant get switched controls is to use it in M/S.
FWIW I heard those comparison files and prefered the VT7 in that instance - it gave the track a little bit of warmth and sweetness, which it needed.
M@
Post by: zmix on December 12, 2006, 03:41:01 PM
The sidechain and signal path are different.
Post by: TotalSonic on December 12, 2006, 04:04:43 PM
| moogus wrote on Tue, 12 December 2006 14:28 |
What good are detented pots for mastering? They only gaurentee that youll never get the two channels on the same setting, as all pots have a wide tollerance and wont have the same resistance when theyre pointing in the same direction. |
True - but in linked mode the left channel controls on the VT7 control everything for both channels except for output gain - so if it was run in linked mode then at least the detents would give you a much closer approximation of recall then without it.
Best regards,
Steve Berson
Post by: jdunn on April 17, 2007, 03:04:30 PM
| zmix wrote on Tue, 12 December 2006 12:41 |
The DW Fearn and the STC-8 use the exact same gain reduction element. Dave Hill of Cranesong designed them both. The sidechain and signal path are different. |
Doug Fearn told me that while the PWM gain reduction circuit is very similar to that used in the STC-8, he had Dave Hill do some tweaks to make it more to his liking for the VT-7. Doug also said that he and Dave are good friends, and Dave knows how he (Doug) likes to hear things. Therefore it was easy for Dave to tweak the circuit according to Doug's taste.
BTW, I was the one who mixed the tracks on that Gearslutz comparison last year. Brian Lucey did the dithering and hosted the files, but I mixed the tune and ran it through the VT-7 and STC-8 respectively. I was also in on the tracking for that project. After reading through this thread, I felt that I should post here regarding the comparison.
Those tracks/mixes had a few problems that I think may have affected the usefulness of the comparison. I mic'd the snare with an Audio Upgrades modded 414 for some stupid reason. I had seen pics posted by someone on Gearslutz using a 414 on snare, so I thought I'd try it. Well, the hi hat was not mic'd up, but it bleeds into the snare mic enough that you can hear it out of phase in the high frequencies.
So after that comparison was posted, I was doing some further mixing and realized that the whole track sounded much better when I flipped the phase on the snare channel. It sounds like it may have been out of phase with the overheads too. The out of phase snare/hat was giving the whole track a sucking feeling, instead of being punchy. There is also quite a difference in the stereo image.
Another thing is that the low end was very boomy on those mixes. I got some little Klipsch ($120) 2.1 computer monitor speakers the other day, and the subwoofer is surprisingly decent. I listened to those jazz mixes, and the low end was way more boomy than anything else I listened to. I've always been afraid that subwoofers would make mixing more difficult, but now I don't know if I'll ever mix without a sub again. I'm going to buy one for my mix room asap.
I'll see if I can find exactly which files were used in that comparison, and if the STC-8 was in Ki or Hara mode. I printed mixes with both modes and named the files accordingly. That STC-8 was a rental, so at the moment I'm unable to redo the comparison with the improved mix. I will do it in the near future though, or at least I'll compare a mix w/ no compression and then with the VT-7.
About the VT-7........ I owned an STC-8 for years, and the VT-7 compares very favorably. You can set it fast enough to catch ultra fast drum transients if you want, but it's a compressor not a limiter, so I like to run the attack slower for a very smooth sound. There's quite a bit of range on the attack control. Also, this unit has a ton of gain, so I run the make up gain pretty low. I think it's got more gain than the STC-8..... very useful as a great sounding line amp.
The only thing that I find quirky about the VT-7 is that there is no bypass (unless I missed something). I don't know why it was omitted, but I wish it did have a bypass. For those of you with mastering consoles, I imagine this might not be an issue.
One last thing........ I'm kinda stretched thin on credit cards right now, and am considering selling a few pieces of gear. The VT-7 isn't something I really want to sell, but........ If anyone is interested in a mint condition, barely used VT-7, I may just have to part with it. You can send me a PM or email me at jason@5sonic.com
[Disclaimer] I did not write this post just so I could advertise the compressor. I'd rather sell some mics or converters anyway!
Post by: carlsaff on April 17, 2007, 04:50:38 PM
Post by: Andy Krehm on April 17, 2007, 10:17:37 PM
| carlsaff wrote on Tue, 17 April 2007 16:50 |
Wow... forgot about this thread! Soon after I started it, I put a down payment on a new Requisite L2M mk. III, so... my decision has been made! No VT-7 for me for now, and I'm probably done buying major gear for the year unless I decide to sell something I currently have in the desk. |
Requisite L2M mk. II used on 100's of albums here. Great sound and tons of headroom. I'm sure you're going to love it!