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R/E/P => R/E/P Archives => Fletcher => Topic started by: Adam The Truck Driver on March 29, 2010, 03:57:51 PM

Title: Analog Cable : XLR & TRS, Shootout?
Post by: Adam The Truck Driver on March 29, 2010, 03:57:51 PM
I have thus far a couple Accusound Silver XLR cables, and they are
somewhat expensive, but sound quite good. I was wondering if there
maybe a make of cables just as good, but for lesser money? Are
there even better cables for close to the same money as the Accusound?

I was considering doing a shootout on say, four makes of cable, counting
the Accusound I already have, adding a TRS line to those to run from preamp to monitor control, and then have a like set with 3 other makes. Would that be a waste of time ya think if all are top of the line cables from their respective makers? Lets say, Accusound, Mogami, Gotham, & Monster? The best sound for the least money is what I'm after I suppose. Would that be price divided by sound quality, or visa versa?

This maybe a silly idea, but I've been stagnating for months in my financial situation, in a job I hate, but can't quit to do something else & other than a select couple of microphones acquired/paid for recently, I haven't made any movement forward otherwise.

I'm wanting to get some progess going on my studio and begining to get all the analog cables I believe is something I can do now rather than later, or in part at least.

For use in proposed cable shootout, I've got an R84(DJV), and a UM70S right here and a CS1 coming at a later date, and also I have a funkenwerked 57. I have a Daking Mic Pre One and an SPL MTC and Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro headphones. Am I wrong in thinking if I put in place the repective cables that I could hear their given characteristics live?

Well?
Title: Re: Analog Cable : XLR & TRS, Shootout?
Post by: compasspnt on March 29, 2010, 04:15:48 PM
We just go with Mogami or Canare, good XLR's, and make them ourselves.

No need to overspend, IMO.
Title: Re: Analog Cable : XLR & TRS, Shootout?
Post by: bleen on March 29, 2010, 04:37:39 PM
compasspnt wrote on Mon, 29 March 2010 13:15

We just go with Mogami or Canare, good XLR's, and make them ourselves.

No need to overspend, IMO.



Ditto!
Title: Re: Analog Cable : XLR & TRS, Shootout?
Post by: Adam The Truck Driver on March 29, 2010, 04:46:56 PM
If Mogami does the trick for CP, well then...Canare I've not heard of...no suprise.

DIY is an option certainly though I'll have a buddy put them together. What of the connectors? Anything specific there, brand, gold plated or whatever?

Thanks Terry.
Title: Re: Analog Cable : XLR & TRS, Shootout?
Post by: McAllister on March 29, 2010, 05:38:49 PM
I've had good luck with Neutrik & have wired a bunch myself.
(novice solder-er, too)
Title: Re: Analog Cable : XLR & TRS, Shootout?
Post by: CWHumphrey on March 29, 2010, 06:18:22 PM
Throw in zip chord as a control.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Analog Cable : XLR & TRS, Shootout?
Post by: J.J. Blair on March 29, 2010, 09:09:21 PM
Skip gold plated.  Don't need it.
Title: Re: Analog Cable : XLR & TRS, Shootout?
Post by: compasspnt on March 29, 2010, 09:39:07 PM
Neutrik or Switchcraft, can't go wrong with either.

Don't cheese out with oriental ones though (at least for now, maybe they will get better).
Title: Re: Analog Cable : XLR & TRS, Shootout?
Post by: Halfway Competent on March 29, 2010, 09:59:41 PM
compasspnt wrote on Mon, 29 March 2010 18:39

Neutrik or Switchcraft, can't go wrong with either.

Don't cheese out with oriental ones though (at least for now, maybe they will get better).



+1.  I find Neutriks a little easier to assemble than the Switchcraft.

The overseas no-name plugs will only cause you grief.  Worst case scenario, they'll crap out on you right in the middle of that one-in-a-million take.  Hah!  Never had that problem with Neutrik or Switchcraft plugs, but I HAVE had that problem with the no-names.

Can't go wrong with Canare or Mogami.  I've never used Belden, but they make every sort of cable.  I think Whirlwind's mic cables use Belden wire.
Title: Re: Analog Cable : XLR & TRS, Shootout?
Post by: PookyNMR on March 29, 2010, 10:12:26 PM
Halfway Competent wrote on Mon, 29 March 2010 19:59

I find Neutriks a little easier to assemble than the Switchcraft.


That has also been my experience.

I have a number of brands of cables.  Mogami in the studio, Canare for the live stuff.  A few Belden snakes, digiflex inserts, gepco, etc.  I find the Canare a little more durable than Mogami, but the Mogami wraps easier.

I don't believe that I can hear an audible difference between any of the cables.  Long cable runs and quad cable are a possible exception.  But even that is splitting hairs.

I do believe I hear a difference with the silver cables.  And I don't like the difference.  Sounds a little brighter in the high end to my ears.  

In another thread in Dan Lavry's old forum, we had worked out how different conductors could possibly affect the sound.  IIRC, after looking at the numbers and doing some math, the differences between copper cables was minute, but there were some more slightly less minute differences with other conductive materials.
Title: Re: Analog Cable : XLR & TRS, Shootout?
Post by: Adam The Truck Driver on March 29, 2010, 10:13:44 PM
Thanks to all for their input to my questions.

AB
Title: Re: Analog Cable : XLR & TRS, Shootout?
Post by: mixwell on March 29, 2010, 10:31:56 PM
Adam - I think, you should just get whatever cable you can afford and is sensible for you, and not worry much about it.  ACCUSOUND also makes a QUAD Cable that is very good as well, and is less expensive than the Silver Studio Line. It compares with CANARE QUAD. Truthfully though, Its not like this  __ % difference in cable is worth fussing much over in the thick of things. The Quality of cable is more about build construction and longevity rather than Sound, even though that certainly is a part of it. So, I hear the same thing, the ACCUSOUND SLIVER's are damn good sounding cable, and extend the qualities of the equipment I select, but we've got looms and yardage of the other stuff [CANARE, REDCO TGS, MOJUMBO, ETC].....and all that stuff sounds fine to me too. Again, I do think cable is the part of your equipment, but its not like your tying knots with string between your mic's and preamps.  
Title: Re: Analog Cable : XLR & TRS, Shootout?
Post by: Jim Williams on March 30, 2010, 11:52:41 AM
Everything makes a difference, it's whether you can hear it or not.

I use low cost General Cable 8014 or Belden 9182 Lan network cable for mics. It's an ideal 150 ohm impedance, it's 8 pf capacitance and 14 ohms DC resistance at 1000 feet. I use Neutrik connectors and pound out the plasic insert so it clears.
I've used this cable since 1992. I've compared to some very good wire including AGSS Kimber pure silver. The top end details are similar. Ray was also impressed by this cheap 22 cents per foot cable. It is thick and stiff, don't trip over it.

Compared to cloudy Carnare and Mogami mic cables, it's like after your ears pop when landing in a jet. For those stuck using thinner flexible cable, go with the AES/EBU 110 ohm versions, that has far less capacitance and helps remove the cable fog.
Title: Re: Analog Cable : XLR & TRS, Shootout?
Post by: John Ivan on March 30, 2010, 01:27:14 PM
Jim Williams wrote on Tue, 30 March 2010 11:52

Everything makes a difference, it's whether you can hear it or not.

I use low cost General Cable 8014 or Belden 9182 Lan network cable for mics. It's an ideal 150 ohm impedance, it's 8 pf capacitance and 14 ohms DC resistance at 1000 feet. I use Neutrik connectors and pound out the plasic insert so it clears.
I've used this cable since 1992. I've compared to some very good wire including AGSS Kimber pure silver. The top end details are similar. Ray was also impressed by this cheap 22 cents per foot cable. It is thick and stiff, don't trip over it.

Compared to cloudy Carnare and Mogami mic cables, it's like after your ears pop when landing in a jet. For those stuck using thinner flexible cable, go with the AES/EBU 110 ohm versions, that has far less capacitance and helps remove the cable fog.

Shocked  Shocked  Shocked  Shocked  Sad
Title: Re: Analog Cable : XLR & TRS, Shootout?
Post by: Adam The Truck Driver on March 30, 2010, 06:26:34 PM
Jim Williams wrote on Tue, 30 March 2010 10:52

Everything makes a difference, it's whether you can hear it or not.

I use low cost General Cable 8014 or Belden 9182 Lan network cable for mics. It's an ideal 150 ohm impedance, it's 8 pf capacitance and 14 ohms DC resistance at 1000 feet. I use Neutrik connectors and pound out the plasic insert so it clears.
I've used this cable since 1992. I've compared to some very good wire including AGSS Kimber pure silver. The top end details are similar. Ray was also impressed by this cheap 22 cents per foot cable. It is thick and stiff, don't trip over it.

Compared to cloudy Carnare and Mogami mic cables, it's like after your ears pop when landing in a jet. For those stuck using thinner flexible cable, go with the AES/EBU 110 ohm versions, that has far less capacitance and helps remove the cable fog.


I am concerned about hearing the details of a sound source, which is why I've been going after kit like the CS1, & was worried about the analog cables in the signal chain behind it, given everything else in the chain is top shelf as well. I can hear the difference of the Accusound Silver I have over a friends cheap whatever it is cable and there is no doubt which sounds way better. The one that costs $100-$110 per 20' factory made is a huge improvement in sound. That being the Accusound Silver. I don't mind spending way less as long as it sounds as good as it can be. But in most cases in my experience in anything, I've found most times I have gotten what I have paid for.

EDIT: I was going to say, I should just do a shootout with all these less expensive cables that have been mentioned here, and hear for myself. My Accusounds will be the standard on which they are judged.
Title: Re: Analog Cable : XLR & TRS, Shootout?
Post by: compasspnt on March 30, 2010, 07:50:47 PM
Good idea.

And try to include the cable Jim speaks about in the test.

I would love to find out that it is really, demonstrably good.
Title: Re: Analog Cable : XLR & TRS, Shootout?
Post by: KB_S1 on March 30, 2010, 09:00:17 PM
If you are making up TRS connectors and you are trying to choose between Neutrik straight connector and the Right angled version, bear in mind the right angled one is much trickier to work on. Well it is for me anyway.
So if you don't need to save the space I would avoid the right angled ones.
Title: Re: Analog Cable : XLR & TRS, Shootout?
Post by: Adam The Truck Driver on March 31, 2010, 02:21:46 PM
compasspnt wrote on Tue, 30 March 2010 18:50

Good idea.

And try to include the cable Jim speaks about in the test.

I would love to find out that it is really, demonstrably good.




Will do what I can asap, given enough time to get it put together. My buddy
has 200' of Monster already lying round his shop, so I'll cut out 40' of it and that'll be one of the contenders.

Will try later, probably next week to track down some General and or Belden, and whatever else I can get on the cheap(er) side. Canare, or Mogami, though I understand
the Mogami isn't exactly cheap. I know nothing about the Canare.

To stay within practicality for me lengths of the cables in contention will be 20'. Thats what my Accus are. Hopefully it won't be a problem getting the raw cables in shorter runs. We shall see.
Title: Re: Analog Cable : XLR & TRS, Shootout?
Post by: jrmintz on March 31, 2010, 08:52:31 PM
The best sounding cable I've used is Gotham. I once did a shootout of four cables. The difference was subtle compared to Canare and Mogami, both of which sounded good, but it was noticeable. The one I liked the least was the Monster 1000 mic cable.
Title: Re: Analog Cable : XLR & TRS, Shootout?
Post by: Adam The Truck Driver on March 31, 2010, 09:18:06 PM
Well, I've got Monster, and Belden in the stock thus far, not sure of which models of cable as I haven't yet seen them. They're each some stock what my buddy already had in his shop.
Title: Re: Analog Cable : XLR & TRS, Shootout?
Post by: Spindrift on April 01, 2010, 11:57:46 AM
DIY Canare/Neutrik here. Beautiful handcrafted results and the sense of accomplishment are great...plus its WAY cheaper.  I think the source/mic choice/placement will make 99% more difference than your cable choice.

But, in the slower times, it is comfortingly fun to obsess over such minutia....I too am guilty!
Title: Re: Analog Cable : XLR & TRS, Shootout?
Post by: Blas on April 02, 2010, 10:40:42 AM
Adam, All our cables are Canare Quad-star (double leads) and Neutrik plugs.  Smartest thing here, I have a tech at a local electronics shop build 'em.  I'm too crazy with the soldering iron (looks like I have some type of shaking disease when I'm finished).

Good luck, and do post the findings.

Joe
Title: Re: Analog Cable : XLR & TRS, Shootout?
Post by: Ryan Massey on April 03, 2010, 01:36:22 AM
Cable is something I just don't get worked up over, as a rule.  As long as the quality of the wire and build are good, you'll be fine.  

Since you are considering Monster:

A client traded me a reel of Monster cable that I found to be some of the lousiest cable I have ever had the misfortune to work with.  Both the hot and cold conductors were covered by a black film, such that it was challenging to see which color I was working with.  Trying to remove that coating would often strip the colored wire insulation off as well.  Very frustrating, and very flaky.  I still have half of the reel sitting here unused.  I can make a cable with Mogami or Canare in literally a quarter of the time and know that it will turn out better every time.  I don't know if all Monster cable is like this, but between my frustration with the wire I worked with, and the company's well documented shoddy business practices, I avoid their products like the plague.  My $.02.

Edit: One more kvetch- the insulators tended to start melting at a much lower temperature than other cable I am used to working with...
Title: Re: Analog Cable : XLR & TRS, Shootout?
Post by: compasspnt on April 03, 2010, 08:53:44 AM
Ryan Massey wrote on Sat, 03 April 2010 01:36

I don't know if all Monster cable is like this, but between my frustration with the wire I worked with, and the company's well documented shoddy business practices, I avoid their products like the plague.



QFE
Title: Re: Analog Cable : XLR & TRS, Shootout?
Post by: Wireline on April 03, 2010, 09:05:56 AM
compasspnt wrote on Sat, 03 April 2010 07:53

Ryan Massey wrote on Sat, 03 April 2010 01:36

I don't know if all Monster cable is like this, but between my frustration with the wire I worked with, and the company's well documented shoddy business practices, I avoid their products like the plague.



QFE




What they all said...just won't do any business with a company that tries to sue a cartoon for copyright infringement.
Title: Re: Analog Cable : XLR & TRS, Shootout?
Post by: Tomas Danko on April 03, 2010, 09:10:40 AM
Wireline wrote on Sat, 03 April 2010 14:05

compasspnt wrote on Sat, 03 April 2010 07:53

Ryan Massey wrote on Sat, 03 April 2010 01:36

I don't know if all Monster cable is like this, but between my frustration with the wire I worked with, and the company's well documented shoddy business practices, I avoid their products like the plague.



QFE




What they all said...just won't do any business with a company that tries to sue a cartoon for copyright infringement.


Even worse they threw cease and desists towards a tiny t-shirt designer company and a non-profit school teaching kids to ski.

Besides, Steve Albini detailed the painful problems their guitar cable connectors can cause when using high voltage valve amplifiers due to the head of the plug being too big.

Finally, Mr. Kimble withdrew his distribution deal through Monster Cable because of all the lawsuits etc.
Title: Re: Analog Cable : XLR & TRS, Shootout?
Post by: Adam The Truck Driver on April 03, 2010, 10:44:04 AM
Sorry, I'm not up on the Monster Cable bad business/ethical practices. I do own a pair of their HDMI cables, which work fine, that I bought because the guy at the store recommended them and I needed some HDMI cables. I have since discovered had I shopped around and done some research I could of had some HDMI cables that work fine but cost half as much, or even less as the Monster HDMI Cable.

If Monster Cable isn't a reputable company I can easily take them out of the running.

Thanks all.
Title: Re: Analog Cable : XLR & TRS, Shootout?
Post by: compasspnt on April 03, 2010, 11:27:07 AM
Monster has the worst reputation of almost any company in "pro" audio.

Very few in recording would want to consider them.

They charge three times the price for a fancy box, and much of their cable is difficult to work with yourself.

Title: Re: Analog Cable : XLR & TRS, Shootout?
Post by: ryan streber on April 03, 2010, 12:03:58 PM
I've also had great luck with Gotham GAC3.  It's reasonably priced, very easy to work with and build from, wraps nicely and predictably, and is very durable.  I've used a lot of mine on location and in live settings for years with 0 problems - except for the time a guy ran a piano over one and sliced it up pretty good, but even that was nothing some gaff tape couldn't take care of:)

I have also found monster to be deplorable.  I got some TRS>TT monster cables for a "good price" on Ebay a few years back. After minimal use, four out of the 6 have literally fallen apart, and the ones I tried to fix were such a PITA that I didn't bother with the remainder.  Waste of money.  Hosa is better than that crap, imho.