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R/E/P => R/E/P Archives => j. hall => Topic started by: Colin Larson on November 06, 2008, 12:44:35 AM

Title: drums and pres question
Post by: Colin Larson on November 06, 2008, 12:44:35 AM
I don't have a lot of nice pres, I just have two decent ones and a bunch of low budget ones.  Now when recording drums, would you use the nicer pres for overheads or kick and snare?  I suppose one of these days I'll just have to test it out, but I was wondering what you all thought.
Title: Re: drums and pres question
Post by: NelsonL on November 06, 2008, 02:39:41 AM
I asked the same question here several years ago, although I already sort of had an opinion. Many many sessions later I still feel pretty much the same way, although my affiliation with Zilla has since made the question moot-- plenty of nice pres there.

My drum sounds rely on OH's and rooms quite a bit, I'd say the overheads are the most important. Especially since I can potentially use samples to improve or replace the close mics if I have to. Anyway, that's my deal.
Title: Re: drums and pres question
Post by: jdier on November 06, 2008, 10:50:02 AM
I have RNP's, GR's and the pres in my RME FF and OctaMic.  I tend to use the RNP's for overheads and the FF for snare and kick.  I have done it the other way and to not notice a HUGE difference when in the mix, but since I use the overheads heavily in my kit sound I always feel like the RNP's should be there.  GR's on guitars usually.
Title: Re: drums and pres question
Post by: grantis on November 06, 2008, 11:07:52 AM
If you have good samples to blend with a the kick and snare, then I'd opt to use your nicer pres on the overheads above anything.  Hard to add overhead samples...Smile
Title: Re: drums and pres question
Post by: iCombs on November 06, 2008, 11:52:55 AM
Man...I'd put the GR's on overheads...

The other option you have is to mic up each drum one at a time with the GR's...get a killer close mic'ed sound at each drum and collect a batch of samples...then mic up the kit with a focus on getting REALLY killer OH's...and use the samples you've gathered to replace the close mics.

It's a bit more work intensive...but it basically lets you clone your mic preamps!
Title: Re: drums and pres question
Post by: j.hall on November 06, 2008, 11:58:20 AM
overheads.  though the pre will only help if you have great mics and a solid sounding room.


Title: Re: drums and pres question
Post by: grantis on November 06, 2008, 07:02:57 PM
j.hall wrote on Thu, 06 November 2008 10:58

overheads.  though the pre will only help if you have great mics and a solid sounding room.





i don't know about that.   if you have mediocre mics and a bad room AND bad pres, surely you're better off using better pres.  it's a start.
Title: Re: drums and pres question
Post by: tom eaton on November 08, 2008, 12:10:08 AM
Like heading to the South Pole by going north.  It's a start.  You'll get there eventually.  

There are WAY better ways to spend that money if your room and instruments are not up to snuff.

Title: Re: drums and pres question
Post by: j.hall on November 10, 2008, 10:34:27 AM
grant richard wrote on Thu, 06 November 2008 18:02







i if you have mediocre mics and a bad room AND bad pres, surely you're better off using better pres.  it's a start.[/quote]


if you have a bad sounding room it really doesn't matter what you use.  and in a lot of cases, it might be better to use something crap then to capture that bad sounding room in all it's glorious badness with great mics and pres.

if the room sucks, you are going for a vibe alone, or just trying to get good isolated trigger hits for your samples....................
Title: Re: drums and pres question
Post by: Jonah A. Kort on November 14, 2008, 11:34:18 PM
I use SM57s as room mics.  It's all I got but once they're crushed with Bomb Factory 1176's they sound pretty darn in my bad sounding concrete basement!
Title: Re: drums and pres question
Post by: bob ebeling on January 17, 2009, 08:07:23 PM
Colin, I could get pretty specific for you if you tell me some more details:  

1. What pre's DO you have.
2. What mics do you have?
3. What Compressors do you have?
4. What exactly is the space you are recording in like?
5. DRUMS!  What kind and can you tune?

But right off the bat I'll tell you this.  Kick and Snare are Everything.  Kick and Snare tone ultimately define your record for the ages.  Think of a record you love, now, you hear the kick and snare don't you...  But I'd need to hear more to tell more.
Title: Re: drums and pres question
Post by: rankus on January 18, 2009, 04:12:34 PM
bob ebeling wrote on Sat, 17 January 2009 17:07

Kick and Snare tone ultimately define your record for the ages.  


Quoted for emphasis.

A client was ribbing me about the amount of time I'm spending on the snare mix on her EP (4 days so far)(only a couple of hours a day though lol) , and I told her that next to vocals the Snare is the most important thing in a mix.. it sets the overall ambiance of a recording.

However I agree that in the OP's situation I would prolly use the good stuff on the OHD's and use samples on the bass drum and snare drum (blended).


Title: Re: drums and pres question
Post by: danko on August 02, 2010, 07:09:59 PM
bob ebeling wrote on Sun, 18 January 2009 03:07

1. What pre's DO you have.
2. What mics do you have?
3. What Compressors do you have?
4. What exactly is the space you are recording in like?
5. DRUMS!  What kind and can you tune?

Apologies for upping an old topic, but I borrowed a bunch of mics for drum recordings and don't have too much time to test and choose, because I also got to play at the same time. So I have some kind of plan, but I'm also keen into hearing any comments or opinions as I'm not fully familiar with all the mics. I'm on a mobile rec gear including MacBook, Digi003 with ADA8000 and Soundcraft EPM8 as additional pres, so the track count is limited to 16. I also have some DBX compressors (DDP, 286A & 3*266), any use for them?

Title: Re: drums and pres question
Post by: Fletcher on August 04, 2010, 08:23:54 AM
If it were my gig [having no idea of the room, kit, style of music, etc. -- in other words, a pre-judged yet uniformed response] I would probably go with

The Shure 52 for kik [and possibly add the "sub kik" if you want too... Michael Wagner uses this combination a lot and it seems to work pretty well], the AKG D-190 for snare, the Pearl CR55s for over heads, the 57's on the tom(s)... and if necessary, a 58 on the hat.

I wouldn't worry about the ride cymbal unless you're not getting enough of it in the overheads [which could also mean that you need to work on your technique to get the ride to cut through clearly when you play].

Pick whatever you want for room... and leave compression out of the picture if you're rushed for time [even if you're not rushed for time]... over the years I've found that unless you have a really inconsistent drummer, compression on drums as effect can be an interesting mix thing [especially parallel compression] but during recording it is often a recipe to get a whole lot of something you don't want and can't remove.

Hope this is of some assistance.

Peace.
Title: Re: drums and pres question
Post by: Sam The Soundman on August 04, 2010, 06:00:06 PM

Well man. I know I'm not a pro at recording as I obviously can't grasp the concept of certain things but here's a better question.

Are you recording in a decent room? If not, I know you'll mostly use some effects for the room sound. In that case, I would use the good pres on ur kick and snare inputs. I remember the last recording your band did and it sounded great and thats where I would switch to using the better pres on over heads but thats just my opinion. I get a little experience since I have a studio there in gibson and have to choose wisely what I use for what since the music room is a carpeted area. I only wish i could build a nice live sounding room.

Title: Re: drums and pres question
Post by: Rod Affleck on August 05, 2010, 09:53:10 AM
j.hall wrote on Mon, 10 November 2008 11:34


if you have a bad sounding room it really doesn't matter what you use.  and in a lot of cases, it might be better to use something crap then to capture that bad sounding room in all it's glorious badness with great mics and pres.


As someone who has spent more time than they'd like in a variety of terrible sounding acoustic spaces with both prosumer and high end mic pres, this comment has been in direct contrast with my experience. In general, I've found that bad pres in a bad space will make things worse, whereas good pres in a bad space will at least not add more bad to the mess.
Title: Re: drums and pres question
Post by: craig boychuk on August 05, 2010, 11:25:16 AM
Rod Affleck wrote on Thu, 05 August 2010 08:53



As someone who has spent more time than they'd like in a variety of terrible sounding acoustic spaces with both prosumer and high end mic pres, this comment has been in direct contrast with my experience. In general, I've found that bad pres in a bad space will make things worse, whereas good pres in a bad space will at least not add more bad to the mess.



Agreed.

If your room is junk you'll be better off taking it out of the picture as best you can. Make it as dead as possible. Put up as much absorption as you can. Blankets, curtains, whatever.

You'll still have to deal with room modes, but odds are you'll find at least one spot in the room that is adequate.

Your overheads will suck no matter what you run them through if your room is crap.

In my humble opinion.


-craig-
Title: Re: drums and pres question
Post by: Nick Sevilla on September 01, 2010, 12:10:09 AM
Bad sounding room = bad sounding anything.

Try to not use an "ambient" mic, only overheads that give you the cymbal splashes and the overall drumkit.

You may want to mic only a few inches above the drummers' head, pointing towards the kit. Experiment with the mic positions until you have the snare hitting where you want it in the stereo field (hint : the mics will probably NOT be aligned perfectly to the center line of the kit, but what matters is what ends up being recorded, not how it looks when you put the mics up.)

Cheers