rankus wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 16:32 |
Sorry for the derail Terry. I'll pull it out if you'd like... not a problem at all.. My bad! |
bob ebeling wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 21:30 |
None of us wants to hear about how cool and rich you are. We want to hear about how alienated you feel and how your emotions feel like they are going to strangle you alive. |
bob ebeling wrote on Tue, 24 August 2010 11:30 |
Just know that no school will teach you really any of the reality of doing it. It will take you ten times more money and time than you will estimate, and at the end, when you hold in your hand the masterpiece of your blood sweat and tears...it will be distributed for free to all and the only thing you might get out of it is fame. The fame will drag you right out of the studio and surround you with questions and clingers, all of which you probably never wanted to answer or hang out with.... |
bob ebeling wrote on Wed, 25 August 2010 20:39 |
I really wanted to thank all you guys, especially Terry for initiating this, for giving me such a nice free feeling today where I felt that 10 plus years still somehow in whatever small way matter. Those 10 plus years were full of heartbreak, decisions-a-plenty to walk away from large sums of cash, broken relationships, distance from family, total confusion, bad addictions, bad women, strange scenes inside the goldmine. Being a small of 'those guys' who get alot of the guru-in-the-eyes-looks from kids approaching me with those heavy questions, the 'what should I do with my life question (and whatever you say is going to be religious)', I've had to weigh this stuff alot thru the years. What do you tell early 20 somethings who obviously have talent and an unique perspective? Do you destroy all their dreams in single burned out answers, no. Do you encourage them to take the insane leaps of faith that you did, knowing inside how many times you searched out the tallest building to jump from? No. Do you convert the conversation into a gear talk, yes! Because I think this is where kids are being led astray. Kids are promised such lies in the pages of 99% of the mags that if I can straighten them out on that, they will be better off to make a real decision from their own experience. 9 Months ago a 24 year old approached me with a great budget and 12 songs that represented his statement of life. It was imperative to him to get me on board, but, the money wasn't enough for me to change my blissful scenario of life then. So I talked him out of doing drums separately at one of the many rooms in NYC he was finding websites for where honestly the guy isn't going to care (sorry if you're one of the guys that does and you should be rewarded for keeping any commercial room running now). I talked him into rehearsing his musicians for much longer than he thought necessary. I talked him into finding a warehouse with a good separate office section for monitoring. I talked him into borrowing and renting great gear and only great gear. YOUNG ARTISTS!, look into the space in which you record, look into the event in which you create, spend time thinking about your song and your lyrics and what it is that needs to be said now. Rebellion. Is it too late? Is the machine too big? Gear. It makes a huge difference and it always has. Just like the USA has to keep people buying to keep the economy pumped up, so the same in certain areas of the making music biz. But there are amazing things we didn't have then now and guys making real incredible tools and not rying just to profit. Here is the crux of my advice to many for many years: keep jobs that make real money but don't steal away your time and soul. Save up for a great microphone. Think about ways of capturing things in extreme quality--whether that be Lavry converters, an Apogee thing or an Otari 1/2" machine recently tweaked and relapped. WRITE WRITE WRITE!!! A great song does ALL OF THIS WORK FOR YOU. There is alot of amazing gear available now if you've got a little more than minimum wage money. A Vintech 428 gives you 4 channels of beautiful preamps. Josephson sdc's are like $400. A pair of Focal Solo 6 is like $2k. GIKacoustics can straighten out your room usually for less than $1k. Cool ribbons are $99. Just buy USAInsn some cases tweaked chinese-uhg) In 1993 we had Tascam 16 track 1/2" machines and Alesis reverbs. We found a friend with a barn, parents with basements, friends with empty lofts, and made things sound imaginitive. The tools you have now are incredible, but just don't believe the hype on what you read in certain mags. They are trying to sell you shite and just keep you buying. All you need is an SM-57 and a 4-track dammit! Not even $100--THERE's no excude. Quit syudying gear like it;s going to make the difference in your career. Sample collections--erase them. Make original recordings of original songs. There are a thousand of spaces for free to record in. Amazing gear is everywhere. Decent gear is everywhere. It's not the fear, it's the song, the feeling, the preformance. Maybe most of all, get your damn heads out of your culture. Turn off the TV. Don't watch MTV. Don't listen to the radio. Don't think about what everyone else wants to hear. Don't fall in love for awhile. There seems to be this race to the great average nothingness now. I'm 40 and I can't fight that hard anymore. All I can do is have you come for a day or two and cut on the best. I cnnot possibly do your entire record, unless you're go deeep pockets. You 18 year olds have all the natural juice and energy to do anything. Leave everyone behind and write a song that makes people cry or have a magic moment. Take all the money you would spend on these schools that teach engineering and write and record instead. Real experience, not the theory of experience. Make that crazy record now and if you are crazy enough, you'll stand infront of emptying bars at 2Am like I did and sell your CD's for $10 to people that have a real hard time saying no. They drive somewhere the next day listening to you. 6 months later you sell-out 850 people in the Majestic Theater in Detroit and Ralph Valdez interviews you on the coolest indie rock show going in Detroit -three times! I have to stop--this is too much. I'll post a recording from that kid Peter next, the kid who did the recortd in the wharehouse with the best gear he could rent. I mixed it for what he could pay and I forced him to master it with Joe Lambert who I think is incredible. Instore at Tower Record AnnArbor 1994 |
bob ebeling wrote on Thu, 26 August 2010 20:56 |
Elliott Smith recorded most of his first two records on a $75 guitar he found at a pawn shop. The vocal mic was some radio shack thing. He found a nice sounding area under the stairway of his then girlfriends house. If it were 2010 he wouldn't have recorded those records because he'd be convinced he needed to wait until he had Neumann mics and an 1960's j45 acoustic. |
bob ebeling wrote on Fri, 27 August 2010 11:47 |
I really wonder how much further I would have made it as an artist, which was at one time my sole aspiration. As equipment entered the picture to get the art made, even in 1992, buying a 16 track for 5 grand, the stress of being a studio operator started to directly take away this free and always writing guy and turn him into an always thinking about money and gear guy. There was a direct effect where gear, in my case, wrecked (erased?, slowly turned away?) an artist. Now, that was my choice and there have been hundreds of great things that have come from going the gear way, but could I have been that great artist who today would be sitting in Scotland, drinking a Guinness and scribbling lyric ideas on napkins while trying not to let those 4 girls in the corner recognize who I am? I think if I had to do it all again, I might not have ever bought that 16 track in 1992 and rather put all that time and effort into rehearsing a band, writing songs, and spending more time in Jamaica...but who's to say? |
bob ebeling wrote on Sat, 28 August 2010 15:52 |
PART 7!!!! Use the drums more guys! |
bob ebeling wrote on Sat, 28 August 2010 15:48 |
Well you've got me there Mr. RSetter! God! It sounds like we are cut from the same exact experimental cookie cutter! You guys rule. Don't you always wonder, 'why are we not getting all the soundtrack work?????' |
compasspnt wrote on Fri, 27 August 2010 17:21 | ||
This is an EXTREMELY important point. There is something in the "creative spirit mindset" that does NOT like the intrusion of business ideals. That's one reason a good band manager is so important. Sometimes there is one band member who can take on the basic responsibilities (often the bass player for some reason?), but so so many musicians just plain do not want to do "the business thing." This is yet another reason that the music business today, wherein a band or single artist is almost expected to write the songs, book the gigs, handle the merch, collect the money, record the demos (or worse, MASTERS) in their own house on their own recording system, drive their own van, load their own gear, design their own album cover, market themselves extensively, call David Letterman's booker, etc....is causing a DEARTH of truly creative flow. And the WORST thing, I have seen it several times, is when a band or artist decides to "put in their own high end studio." Can it work...yes, it might. Will it work? Likely it will diminish the creative juices as the focus is diverted towards day to day business ideals. Yes, on the other hand is the fact that in today's "artistically democratic" world, there are more chances to record oneself, more opportunities to go worldwide, than ever. But where is the Golden Mean? |
MDM, wrote on Sun, 29 August 2010 10:52 |
what was that interview where they described putting the 'thriller' tapes on? something like 'I put the faders up and there was the record' |
MDM, wrote on Sun, 29 August 2010 14:38 |
...I think of '82-'83 as a turning point for some reason, though that may be just time lag. Maybe it's the midi-studio, cheap mixer fenomena that dropped the bar. |
Bob Olhsson wrote on Sun, 29 August 2010 23:29 |
Three letters, SSL, and the mentality of compressing, gating and automating the grunt out of absolutely everything. |
compasspnt wrote on Mon, 30 August 2010 08:41 |
Agreed, but having the tools (in this case, SSL, drum machine, editing capability) does not force one to make worse recordings, it just allow those with less-than-perfect taste to go wild. |
compasspnt wrote on Mon, 30 August 2010 07:41 |
Agreed, but having the tools (in this case, SSL, drum machine, editing capability) does not force one to make worse recordings, it just allow those with less-than-perfect taste to go wild. |
Fibes wrote on Mon, 30 August 2010 14:20 |
I still think there are plenty of great sounding records coming out today but they aren't at the top of the promo echelon. |
RSettee wrote on Sat, 11 September 2010 00:49 |
Yeah. Even albums like last year's release by Bill Callahan were great sounding |
Seb Riou wrote on Sat, 11 September 2010 02:59 | ||
And it's an understatement ! But most Smog albums are amazing You talk about small audience of indie scene, but imagine what it's like here in France. The most mainstream rock band can hope to reach 40 000 people, that will buy the record and go to shows. If you play a more refined and demanding music, that goes straight down to 5 000 in the best case scenario. So if you don't go out in Europe (and that means a different distro, touring agency), being "pro" is completely out of question. |
bob ebeling wrote on Sat, 11 September 2010 13:24 |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ4S7ViisgE But don't put down this youtube gem!! haha Seriously, thanks for the thanks and support and understanding and unity guys. There's still alot of cool stuff, you just have to be like a gold-panner at the mouth of the river, and do it when the mine owners aren't around. I found spots to stream both the Interpol and Blonde Redhead records and they are both great. I have to check out alot of your suggestions now! |
RSettee wrote on Sat, 11 September 2010 08:49 | ||
Yeah. Even albums like last year's release by Bill Callahan were great sounding, but I don't think that it went much past his core audience or past the indie rock scene. Justin Currie's "What Is Love For" and "The Great War" sound great, but I don't think that many people heard it outside of his core audience, either. |
bob ebeling wrote on Sun, 12 September 2010 11:18 |
Unbelievable Terry! That is something else, Lucas shooting those. She is a talent and the productions are yum yummy! |
bob ebeling wrote on Sun, 12 September 2010 10:46 |
People need to stop editing the life out of their tracks. I'm trying to mix these 60 plus track records like they are done live and that's kinda my little contribution on trying to get things back to life here. It doesn't apply to everything but with experience as an engineer you end up seeing that you're really just trying to get things to sound like they probably did or ultimately would in a dream perfect concert scenario. |
compasspnt wrote on Fri, 27 August 2010 18:21 | ||
This is an EXTREMELY important point. There is something in the "creative spirit mindset" that does NOT like the intrusion of business ideals. That's one reason a good band manager is so important. Sometimes there is one band member who can take on the basic responsibilities (often the bass player for some reason?), but so so many musicians just plain do not want to do "the business thing." This is yet another reason that the music business today, wherein a band or single artist is almost expected to write the songs, book the gigs, handle the merch, collect the money, record the demos (or worse, MASTERS) in their own house on their own recording system, drive their own van, load their own gear, design their own album cover, market themselves extensively, call David Letterman's booker, etc....is causing a DEARTH of truly creative flow. And the WORST thing, I have seen it several times, is when a band or artist decides to "put in their own high end studio." Can it work...yes, it might. Will it work? Likely it will diminish the creative juices as the focus is diverted towards day to day business ideals. Yes, on the other hand is the fact that in today's "artistically democratic" world, there are more chances to record oneself, more opportunities to go worldwide, than ever. But where is the Golden Mean? |
bob ebeling wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 17:23 |
Sure! This particular song was done in my Brooklyn apartment. Unlike most closet style apartments in NYC, I was very lucky to find a four bedroom exquisite place off of the Ft. Hamilton Parkway stop of the F. Huge open rooms built in the 1940's...gotta love it! So my main gear in this place was a pair of pair of V76/80. A black face rev d 1176. An LA-2A. A Lang PEQ-2. Mics included a U47, a couple UM-57's, km 84's, Schoeps 221b's, and more of the usual suspects. The drum machine is a real deal Roland 808. I love that thing so much. Samples never come close to the life that is inside that machine. I had just lucked across the Sesame Street Minimoog, bought straight from the origional music maker from that show. He gave me his book with all the patches notated ('cookie monsters diabete's shock', 'count's moment of ecstacy', etc... haha). So this particular song started off with alot of synth and 808, just to get some chords happening. Everything else was built up from there, but 90% of the song was done in an afternoon. When it came time to do the vocals I had a big doubt on whether or not I should keep the very first chord of the verse as the c# (?) which actually never appeared again in the sequence. Good buddy and audio-ologist Paul Logus talked me into keeping it. THe 'Downtown' record went on to be one of the coolest things you've never heard. Flood and Alan Moulder came on board towards the end to help me straighten out a few of the songs in london. If you are into heartbreak, substance influenced sounds (haha), and general shoegaze via Beatles production then go find a copy of this (someone still has it on I-tunes under my stage name 'Robert Kaeding' or 'Downtown') OR better yet, put it out on your own label! I still own 100% of the record, publishing and all. Look on Half.com, they usually have a bunch of copies under 'Downtown digipak' I did make the record on 2" machines blended with Protools, using some of the best studios in NYC and some of the best gear on the planet so it is a fun listen, and like I say, if you've just been thru a divorce, you just might worship this slab! |
bob ebeling wrote on Mon, 13 September 2010 05:58 |
I don't want to set up any hard rules or act like I dictate anything for a band, all I'm saying is preproduction. Back in the days and the further back you go, the more limited the options were the more the music had to be rehearsed and well written first. I think there are a lot of results from the 50's, 60's, and 70's that far outweigh the results we are getting now with this billion track recorder under every roof method. |
bob ebeling wrote on Wed, 06 October 2010 11:45 |
Charles Hughes and I wanted to create a studio of all glitchy and malfunctioning gear. We worked almost how you described...first take only and never really knowing where we were going until we got there. I find preproduction really important with bands though, even if it's just me attending a few rehearsals, making notes and discussing. Gets me prepared for the personalities and gear I'll be micing too. This can help to flush out poor arrangements beforehand also. But I'm also lumping gear rental and borrowing, musician choices, venue choices, etc.. into preproduction. |
bob ebeling wrote on Sat, 04 December 2010 09:34 |
http://bobebeling.bandcamp.com/album/downtown I added the record some of you guys were asking for now. There ya go! |